The Japanese Super Street Fighter 4 Arcade Edition development blog was updated with a partial change list for the five of the characters in the arcade edition, Ryu, Balrog, C. Viper, Cammy and Guy. Keep in mind that this is not a full list of changes for each character.
Seems fine to me, although I don't main any of these characters. I'm sure the whining about Ryu being "overpowered" and Cammy getting "nerfed to hell" will flood the comments though.
Balrogs dirty bull needs to change altogether :( that move is the worst.
Guy looks a lot more fun to play as a character now, and that far st.mk poke looks killer.
Ryu with less defensive options was called for.
C.Viper's changes made me lol.
Balrog's far st.lp was too strong vs. characters without a decent reversal, imo.
Other than the Viper changes, this was a solid balance attempt.
@Throwryuken - his Ultra 1 is already decent. They had to give him something, and I think giving him a very effective Ultra could've broken him. For example, NO ONE uses Ryu's U2 competitively. However, one could make the argument that a character like Rufus has two practical Ultras, but I digress.
The changes are all actually fairly well-done, I think. I like the changes to Ryu quite a bit. The buffs on those normals actually make quite a bit of sense, but I like crouching medium kick being less abusable as a poke. I also like Cammy's changes quite a bit. They force her to be a bit less focused on perfect execution as she is now, which will open her up quite a bit, I think. Although complaints about the nerfs to instant cannon strikes will surely go on for quite a while.
The biggest let down for me is that the only buff to Dirty Bull is making the input easier. 2 halfcircles questionably takes longer to pull off than a 720, and only really benefits from not having to worry about buffering it as much. Surely the ultra could have benefited from either a damage or stun increase (as right now it's the same (I think?) as Gief's headbutt...) as I'm sure it still won't be used at all.
So who are Capcom buffing/nerfing the others for?
Dissenters will abhor.
@1 don't know if you will, maybe in block strings. Look at Sagat, his s.hk goes into angry scar and uppercut, but it's not used all the time. However if Sagat's s.HP was able to cancel into upper cut you'd never use s.hk...I think the same replies for Ryu since his s.hp DOES go into Srk.
I trust these adjustments.
You can't purely speculate everything that is written by text. Sure it looked like Cammy got nerfed hard, but I remember back before SSF4 there was a post about Bison's nerfs and buffs (most of them nerfs, except the Psycho Crusher). Most Bison players (Including myself) got pretty pissed.
Now he's considered one of the better characters. I think we should wait and try it out ourselves so we can really see how this plays out.
I really hope Guy's Target Combo was fixed as earlier impressions suggested. However, I like the changes shown anyway.
Looking at Cammy, I wonder if that means TK CS is still in, but activated higher like Adon's Jaguar kicks, or if its not there at all.
I really don't see the nerfs to Cammy as being all that game-changing. Basically, they traded one abusable move (instant cannon strikes) for more combo opportunities (less recovery on normals). She also already gains EX meter like crazy, so the lack of being able to spam cannon strikes for meter is... meh.
i really like how these changes are pretty subtle but will make the game probably better overall..
Can someone please explain what the 2 points before the super upgrade mean for guy? I'm learning to play him and I don't understand. Thanks
Balancing looks complicated I hope the development team won't break anything. Can't wait to see my Claw, Makoto and Hakans buffs :D
@22
It sounds like
1) When Guy does EX run->stop, he has 1 hit of armor during the stop animation. This may or may not be separate from his EX run armor.
2) when doing EX run-slide, the slide has projectile invulnerability, and will pass through them.
@soultruthgemini - Can someone please explain what the 2 points before the super upgrade mean for guy? I'm learning to play him and I don't understand. Thanks
I think only EX Run itself (the actual "run") had super armor. Now, if you slide or stop, those follow-ups will have the same armor property (they didn't previously). I'm guessing you'll only get ONE hit of super armor for the whole move, though (eg, if you absorb a fireball with EX Run DURING the run, you won't be able to absorb another hit after a followup).
I trust these adjustments but I am shocked about Cammy getting even less recovery frames. Also I hate Balrog. I don't know what to do about that but golly I hate him
What is everyone's opinion about Zangief's Ex Green Hand not doing knockdown any more?
@mrdrofficer, regarding Zangief's EX Green Hand - personally, I think the fact that it DOESN'T knock down is scarier. Assuming it's positive on hit (it better be), it alters up his mixup game a bit. Before, if you got knocked down, you at least had a breather, and had the option of a quick get up, or just a normal get up. Now.. you're going to be forced to act quickly. Compare it to Ryu's Tatsu and Ken's EX-Tatsu; Ken's doesn't knock you down, and it gives him a chance to play a guessing game with you where he has an advantage. Take that for what it's worth.
@26 Don't know if it is confirmed, but the rumour is his ex-green hand is safe on block which will help him a lot a TON against zone Characters. I'm a sagat player and that Ex Green hand was too easy to deal with. Didn't really like how it made it too easy for me. At least now Zangief will have a better chance, he always was a great character.
Cammy got nerfed there pretty hard, but she also got some strong buffs. Should be interesting to see how that works out for her.
It seems like Cammy's normals getting better helps her be more well rounded in her bad match ups, while he cannon strike nerf means she can't stay on people all day every day.
I'm not too sure about her cannon spike being nerfed cause it was already really punishable, but I think these changes could be good.
hmm
that less active frames on c.mk will create the most difference. That will definitely nerf ryu a lot.
with the new cancellable medium punch and linkable shoryu arfter close hk(this sounds really cheap to me, but lets hope it's a 1 frame link)
so they made air tatsu crossup more ambiguous? isn't it hella ambiguous enough?
these nerfs and buffs all seem to make ryu more of a rush down character as his main zoning tool got nerfed
ryu got some big nerfs. he can't poke as well with his c.mk anymore and that will hurt him alot. not having a free escape when cornered is good too. the c.mk nerf is going to hurt a lot of ryu players though.
@38
honda is getting the nerf bat mark my words. hes way too good against the crappy characters, so he's getting alot of damage nerfs.
dhalsim getting some too cause hes too good against the shotos and capcom wont let that stand. capcom has to protect their precious shotos!
honda bison guile chun abel and dhalsim players your time is coming...
cammy gets nerfed all good shes still gonna own its all about combos with her trust me TK is good but most only to bait throws its like a guess they throw you win they dont poke you lose s.mp is even better now i cant wait 2 bad this sh%$ is arcades so far the need to nerf guiles recovery make it so sb recovers at 45 frames like ryu not 29frames thats just bs imposible to jump and punish
id say guile, honda, chun li, bison, and abel, are the only ones that will get any nerfs, or at least the only ones that should get nerfed...
Cammy's nerf doesn't affect her that bad. Her EX dive kick is still the same and that was the one most players used anyway. It just means she can't dive kick spam as easily and won't have a few of her combos she has now, besides that it's not too big of a deal.
Here's the Makoto changes from the test.
• Makoto's EX Dash Punch (Hayate) breaks armor now.
• She has slightly faster walk speed.
• Her Axe Kicks are more like they were in Third Strike.
• Fukiage (Upwards Punch) takes off more life. The hitbox for this may have been improved, but this is not conclusive so far.
• EX Overhead Chop (Oroshi) has more invincible frames.
She needs all of these.
less recovery for camy opens up some deadly frame traps for her her frame traps are gonna be on par with cody her normals just got a lot better i can see all the counter hit C.HP now lol she wont have TK but you wont be able to get sh%$ in her blockstring shes gonna force you to block alot more although i was hoping for safe spiral arrow oh well some new blockstrings might distance her perfectly for safe arrows like sagat for tknees.
I hope they don't change the EX green hand because it won't really help if you hit with the green hand usually a regular throw will hit you before the SPD input is in true story.
So let me get this straight... there seems to be(i could be wrong) alot of safe moves on block ala charge characters are untouched but you nerf cammy's TKCS as if you could totally dominate with it. She needed a decent cross up to mix the turtles up all of her pressure for the most part was face forward and now your nerfing a move that was mostly used in combos, pressure, and mix ups(thats all she is) and that anyone with any cammy knowledge knows it can be FADC countered... if it goes through i'm not playing this anymore cause I only used her via vanilla and super >:o
Wow, those cammy changes are so uncalled for. Without that dive kick pressure shes not gonna be able to create oppurtunities to take advantage on all that frame advantage. Unless there gonna nerf rufus's(and yun and yangs) dive kick then this nerf isnt fair at all. Prepare to see cammy kicked to the curb come tournament time.
And whats the point of nerfing balrogs headbut? Its already easy to punish, the st jab sound ok though. And ryu hurricane "nerf" doesnt sound like a nerf to me at all, u lose the escape option but gain a better cross option and that sounds like a buff to me.
Outside of that the only nerfs that made sense is ryus low forward.
Im almost scared to see the rest of the cast.
@chickenwings
Cammy will be building meter by attacking with all of those buffed normals, so she can use her ex cannon strike to apply the same pressure as before, more often as well, you just can't brainlessly dive kick with her now.
You have to pick your spots to dive kick with her, apply ground and air pressure along with it.
All the buffs to her normals are going to give her a wicked footsie game.
If they left her dive kick as is and added in all of these buffs she'd be the new vanilla Sagat. This way she should still be almost the tier she is now.
Balrogs headbut recovers quite fast its a plus them adding recovery cammy takes months to get good with and even with all that its still dificult to get in on turtles I think capcom wanted to keep the game relatively the same just minor tweeks hate the wait tho seems like months before we try these tweeks and even then its arcades only
eh we'll probably read about Gen changes the week before release like they did with SSF4 and them saying that Gen improved for the better.
I am anxious to see what they are doing with Gen and Makoto even Gouken. Those are the characters I play most.
@58
THe normals they buffed will still lose to characters with better pokes, ie chun,guile,honda,balrog etc. The best one they improved is prob the st fierce but even then unless it can hit a shoto low forward(they just give her recovery not better hitboxs) its not gonna do much for her pokes. The only thing its gonna do is make her combos easier to do watch doesnt do much for her. The dive kick pressure kept her competitive and kept u on ur toes, without it theres nothing to worry about from cammy now.
@chickenwing
Her combos will be easier no more 1frame links will be 2or more frames now and her S.MP is +2 on block now it will be more her blockstrings hopefully will be near impossible to reversal and forget opselect tech your getting counnter hit for sure all you camn do in her good blockstrings now is block
Dive kicks are not Cammy's only options for getting in but it'll be nice it they would let her dive kick from a straight up jump. Come on, it's a special move, at least let it do that.
The only way to not fight Ryu online is to not play Street Fighter. Lol. I am curious though, it's generally known that a lot of noobs play Ryu but does the quantity drop off when you reach really high BP?
So enters Baller still crying over daigo losing...
Anyways it still doesn't change the fact that some charge turtle heavy characters still basically own Cammy.
@63
where did u get the framedata? How do u now its 2 on block? And even if it was ur missing the point. Lets say the matchup is honda vs cammy. What the hell is those normals gonna do(again, they improved recovery, nothing else) when i can smack u with rh, pockchop, st strong etc. The block strings dont mean anything, she already has frame traps and its not like u cant just... u know, BLOCK. ANd u still have to get in pretty dam close to use those improved normals and before u do that ur gonna eat alot of pokes, and with low stamina that aint good. Dont even fool urself, the only thing it does is better combos. The only possible poke she gets out of this is maybe st fierce, her best pokes will still be her st forward, st rh and low forward.
@67
Turtle heavy character will now own her up for free. Imagine how annoying the balrog match is gonna be for her now? The best thing they can do for cammy after this is give her a alt custom with an aprin because all she can do now is fight against hungry in the kitchen.
I hope you guys realize that people are still going to pick Ryu, right! These changes come to balance the game on a tournament based level... In other words only smart Ryu players will really see the nerfs he got or smart players in general. Yes there are smart Ryu players out there, alot of people just don't like losing to Ryu soooo these good players are often seen as scrubs.
Capcom're crazy
Ryu does not need all these improvements
.. Nerf the Crouching Medium Punch (Frame Adv. Hit +5)fix to
+3 or +2
..Nerf HK in jump the HIt box is Too HUGE
Cammy is already too fast ... it's almost impossible to keep up like that is invincible
In this game and especially against cammy there should be a counter
Really the main thing Cammy needed as well as Fei Long was to make U2 cancelable like Abel's (don't know why got that) because people would just do the armor breaker or Focus lv.3.
@76
Its not crippleing anything. The hurricane kick wont let u run away but it crosses up better, thats a buff. And low forward loseing some active frames isnt bad either, dont act like it wasnt too good to begin with, its prob more closer to ken/akuma's low forward and thats still a good move.
@69 chickenwing
S.MP on block is +2 if she recovers even faster as they said a few frames faster then on block it should be +3 or more now I main cammy for awhile now yes Honda is a bad matchup headbut is 2safe on block that's all he really needs to do to win spam headbuts cammy can't consistently. Punish crossing holda up relentlessly I find works best for me they only changed tkee strike she really hasent changed tthat much her strike is still there you just have to adapt with ex version I mean tk was best for catching would be grabers and low pokers it fails vs medium hight pokes unless you delay it but that's not easy to do consitently you migh end up jumping around recklessly oh yea she will be in the kitchen serving a can of woop ass to those who think she aint killer bee no more
Well the thing it will be so obvious if Cammy is going for a cross up or not. So also against other characters she will have trouble to getting in/get an actual hit.
Turtle/down back characters will be even a bigger pain as if Cammy guesses right once they can just continue down back when they get up whereas in SF4 they have to guess which way they should block etc.
@79
Dude are u stupid, what dont u get? These normals dont have range. If they improved her stand forward or something then yea, but they didnt. THey just made her combos easier to do,they didnt do anything to the hitbox or active frames. I used honda as an example since he has better pokes with more range. Lets say ur fighting balrog, or chun the same thing will happen. Without the dive kick pressure balrog can just sit there like an idiot mash jab when ever u get close to him or what about chun, her st strong will prob destroy any button u press still. BUt whatever, i guess u dont play enough to understand that.
Let's take a ride in the wayback machine....
*1 year ago*
Capcom:
Guile changes - faster recovery on Sonic Boom, Guile Kick juggles better.
The People:
WTF Capcom?! That doesn't help Guile at all! He's still going to suck in Super!
*present day*
Oh hi, Top-Tier Guile.
All I'm saying is, wait and see how things play out before you start crying about the changes to your character.
@82
remember when we saw the gen changes fpr super? Mow when was the last time u saw/fought a gen again?
edit
remember when we saw the gen changes FOR super. NOW when was the last time u saw/fought a gen?
At joker 1o1
I like that let's Wait and see.
Chicken are you retarded I main cammy I know her tools pretty good unless you main her to I don't think ur as knowing as I am on the cammy subject most of her rush game is still there she can still cstrike on you wakeup making you think she's crossing up point is she doesent need the tiger knee for all that jabing destroys tiger knee anyhow like I said its only bes vs would be grabers cammy can poke it out to chuns standing strong has Les reach that cammys standing roundhouse cammy wins that lil poke fest + standing roundhouse knocks her ass outta neutral jums clean I know my stuff son
@#2
Hahaha true, its always the usual suspects too
I hope for Rufus they buff far standing roundhouse.
Faster start up will do.
In exchange nerf damage on ultra 2.
Make ex messiah on hit not wiff last hits.
For Cody: Faster walk speed, better backdash, be able to ex cancel regular bingo, Faster start up on over head, make far st. mp xxx sweep.
For Gouken: Give him a link, cr. jab, cr. jab, cr. jab, st. close lk, jab palm/gouhadoken. Make demon flip an over head again.
In exchange nerf damage slightly.
This is what I would like to see for a couple of characters.
Mainly rufus.
@oohlookamonster: Rog should have been nerfed harder in general?
I hope you're just trolling.
Overview
Ryu. Generally nerfed. c.mk is worse, forward hp is worse, and air tatsu not escaping corners is a big nerf. Crossing up better at the price of this is definitely not a buff.
Balrog. Headbutt is nerfed, but still goes through projectiles with long range. Not really changed at all.
C.Viper. Single buff. Better...?
Cammy and Guy both received a better footsies game, at the expense of Cammy's instant dive kick. Guy has only improved!
@oohlookamonster
First off, lol at gootecks.
You can list the many positives of Rog (yes he has excellent normals) but as you know other characters have a good list of positives too.
The U1 out of a headbutt is so overrated because first of all, you have to land a headbutt (an unsafe charge move - think about it). And even if you land it off a combo, the UI damage is ass. I can go on about the various ways to counter his rush moves but it's pointless.
Yes, Balrog might be an easy character to play but is he easy to win with? Rogs don't win major tourneys and he may never ever do. His wake-up options are poor, his mix-up game is poor - no crossups. Basically any player good at crouch-teching can just hold down-back all day while he has the lead and there is nothing Rog can do.
Basically, Rog doesn't have the power the make an opponent guess. He is too linear. So every move he has that you consider OP compensates for this - Nerfing them would destroy the character. This my friend is the "balance" :)
@Koppok: They may be increasing the hitstun I suppose, otherwise you'd have to wait for the end of the jumparc which gives your opponent forever to react to it. Still, it will be the worst divekick in the game whatever happens. Down-back will be more her nemesis than ever before.
@100
Sorry to say but its not cammy that's worthless withought tk CS its the cammy player. I main cammy ill be fine withought it + its technically still there and tkcs is very risky I mean spamers beat it japs srk u name it giefs lariat was nerfed forced gief playerss to actually use skillz and not lariat crazy tho is my opinion cammy is no easy char you need high execution for her
@ScytheWP Thank you. Pretty much anyone who says the changes to Ryu's air tatsu is a buff has no idea what they are talking about. Losing active frames off of crouching MK is pretty severe also. The normals Capcom buffed are moves the majority of players don't use anyway. Ryu haters need to improve their skills and stop blaming their losses on the character. Capcom could nerf into the ground and there would be whinere STILL complaining that he is "OP". I hope the changes aren't as bad as they sound on paper.
with regards to Viper, that single buff is both a blessing and a disappointment. It's a blessing because it wasn't accompanied by any nerfs. She's a character that already has to work extremely hard to win with, and her bad matchups are seriously bad. (Honda, Rog, Bison)
But to buff a move that no decent Viper player uses except in maybe two matches (Gief and Blanka(I still prefer Ultra 1 vs Blanka but many people like Ultra 2 for that specific match)) is kinda pointless. But a buff is a buff. I'm just saying it won't be enough to warrant picking that Ultra over Burst Time.
The only thing Viper players have been crying out for since Vanilla is for her Cr.MK to have it's proper hitbox instead of it hitting past her ankle. I mean it's not like that move is fast...
As long as the Top Tiers are toned down then I expect only subtle changes to the mid tiers and the lower tiers to get some bigger buffs. In the bigger picture it seems like CAPCOM are doing that. Good stuff.
Rufus only has one safe move and you can take it out before you block it.
Galactic tornado is his only safe move.
Stop complaining because you can block.
Learn to tech with another button like cr. strong or fierce, or just mash dp and his options are pretty limited.
you just have to try and bait something out and then your can try and capitalize on a knockdown.
@oohlookamonster:
Please, his overhead is garbage. It can be blocked or thrown on reaction.
The tick-throw game can be neutralised with the crouch-tech option select.
Er... ex rush punch on wake up that can be thrown on start-up?
I agree with you about the U1 but some of those characters with "garbage ultras" usually have something good going for them like fei-long and his god-like focus attack...
Listen man, we can debate on and on about the pluses and minuses. Yes, Rog is a solid character but when it comes down to it, it's all about the player and not the character.
One.
@96
Justin plays Makoto as well. Is she lame?
His U2 is pretty insane but if his U1 gets a nerf then so does Abel's. That junk does 500 damage and is insanely easy to combo off of
@Mr_Clack
It may not link to a jab but it is cancelable into an ex upper that can link to jab. Although I doubt it will affect any match up drasticaaly.
please make ryu's ultra 2 more comboable and more damage so that actually people use it in tourny, so far it is just for shhit...
You got to be kidding me... I've waited for notes of Viper for months, and this is all I get? An increased hitbox on a fking useless ultra?
God fking damnit...
The main issue with Ryu's U2 is the fact that his other ultra comboed can do the same damage and it's dont by doing a SRK...a quick anti-air.
The U2 was meant for 2 things on-ground invincible on startup
and to be an anti-air ultra, which U1 already is.
So, U1 is better just because it doesnt need invincibility when the SRK already has that property!
Boxer's U2 is just B-A-D you need to be REALLY close which boxer usually at a distance jabbing. Damage and stun are bad.
Now you have a harder command you cant mash as easily as a 720!
IF They made it so his U1 doesnt combo, then U2 has a chance!
And Viper...I like...clueless, Capcom is clueless why this is not used.
GET AN ULTRA THAT IS GUARANTEED TO HIT then others might switch. The current ultra is kinda gambly!
they should make ryu's ultra2 fully cancelable from a normal SRK. and should do 600 damage instead of like 400...
MAIN Nerfs:
Honda's Headbutt is WAY too dangerous! It's virtually unstopppable and does good chip and the damage is great on hit...AND it's virturally safe on block.
His LK sumo splash...That Tidal wave of ASS. Needs him to be pushed away more!
Akuma's STUPID Fn Double RoundHouse Legs! Annoying, Annoying, Annoying!
Take away 1/2 of Rufus and Ryu's Juggle moves. It's unfair that they get so many while others have one.
Adon is a little too Quick but if not changed w/e nobody uses him well except that guy!
@#126
Do you know how many tears would be shed on here if they did that?
@#129
fuk head, that is point. ryu is so nerfed to the eyeball. he needs to make a comback dummy.
- one love
Why does it always seem like the nerf people want are the moves that they cant deal with?
Juri needs some buffs but it's hard to say where.
She has good normals that juggle and hit in all directions.
Ryu needs nerf because he is use WAY WAY WAY too much online.
So we can see if he really is popular because of his image or his brain-dead easiness. (FB/DP game)
T Hawk needs buffs but...I dont think it's gonna work at all.
I believe he needs parrying
Hakan needs that st.FP to be an overhead and an anti-air.
Calling me a fuk head and a dummy isnt going to change anything
They could make vipers U2 hit the whole screen and I wouldnt care because it sucks. How about a useable focus attack or better normals? Instead they buff ryu... wtf. They nerfed cammys whole offense. They REALLY REALLY want turtles to win at this game. Easy reversal timing, easy inputs, random ultras, focus attacks, 3 frame invincibles that you can make safe and combo into ultra. Why risk attacking?
america is the land of the "free". so please nerf balrog and cammy to set them "free"
- one love
@Mr_crack why does ryu need to be nerfed? only cuz people like to use him? thats kinda stupid dont you think to nerf someone because they're popular. i use juri and i also play alot of ryus but i dont complain like you do. if you play them so much you should get good at beating them and worry about other people.But hey i see alot of bisons too lets just nerf them and i saw a honda today that beat me! lets nerf him too!
@mr_clack ryu is fine stop whining so much! if you cant beat someone maybe its because you dont practice! some people have the mind set that if someone isnt popular it means they need buff or if they are too popualr they need nerfs! just get over it! and play! stop whining mr_clack
Ryu will still be the best, his cr mk is going to lose maybe two active frames, no big deal at all. Heck i don't even play footsies that often, and i beat 5500+ to 5800+ pp players all the time. (not easily since they're my skill lvl) Solar plexus dmg decrease lmao thats hardly a nerf its just, ok so we still can land it 4 to 7xs in a 3 round match lol. Escaping corner also not too bad since we can still use it as an escape tactic the more skilled Ryu players, like myself will perfect the timing lol easy. In turn we get a better tatsu cross up tbh its a win/win. Really Ryu got no nerfs except slight cr mk nerf which is not a big deal for skilled players. The far Mp will only help Ryu punish even more, the close sHK as well. Ryu really only got 1 nerfs which was slight. If they nerf rufus, guile ( hes definitely getting nerfed lol), chun, and bison Ryu will be # 1 lol i know it you know it. Lol, gj capcom making the cry babies think you've nerfed Ryu when all you did is trick them lmao. RYU = SF gOD lol.
To those defenders of Ryu's online dominance and who ALWAYS say "Just beat em"
Do you like playing Halo or CoD and only seeing the same Map or the same guns? or the same character used?
"Hey at least you get used to it!"
Getting used to it is NOT the point.
It's the fact that so many people think that, THAT is the best way. Let's see how much they like the cover-boy with PROPER nerfs which Capcom ignored...again.
The Thrust punch nerf is NOTHING!!! The initial damage was not the reason it was abused it was the EASY link into a Hard SRK for around 250 damage now it does 230 maybe. and around 300 with a Daigo Special FP inbetween.
J.mp, SRK, EX Tatsu in corner, Ex Fireball all still go into Ultra. Why should anyone use the other Ultra Seriously?
Now they made it so Ryu's EX-air Tatsu hits dont miss?
Do they love that guy or what?
I cant WAIT to see the buffs they gave Hakan because he needs some cool stuff BADLY!!!
Hakan's grab range when oiled is PATHETIC compared with other grappler types, and the damage could be better on his slide.
143 was meant for 141 initially, but heck, spot on 142 spot on lol.
So Ryu can't tatsu out anymore? Well I definatley see this matchup getting alot easier for me. Since my standing medium kick is better (was already insanely good in SUPER) the Guy / Ryu matchup should be cake.
Also Guy's buffs are exactly what he needed, but im still hoping they fix his Target Combo so I can atleast safely get some chip damage in on any character. To be honest though the biggest deal for me is the crouching light kick being 3 frames instead of 4. Now it wont be a 1 frame link to link the medium punch too it therefor I won't be dropping my combos that leave me ridiculously vulnerable.
I wish they just gave Balrog his gigaton from alpha 3. I don't have anything against dirty bull its just that I don't really have a use for it.
Lol at the Rufus wish list. Cammy is turning into ssf4 viper. They're killing her rushdown options. Vanilla viper had lots of frame advantage off of bk's, her bk's are nothing special now. She depends more on her ground game now, as Cammy will. Overall less fun to use but still effective.
These changes are apparently made to appease scrubby players because they just slow the game down. I really think the capcom team cringes when they make some of these changes.
"Posted by Mr_Clack on October 26, 2010 at 8:15 a.m. #149
Id like for Guy's Run Kick Overhead to hit twice all of the time."
Me too, as a Guy player I would find that very useful in the run/stop mixup with Guy. Plus it would break focuses everytime, which would be amazing.
Stop complaining about Ryu. If you are too lazy to put forth the effort to deal with how he plays, that lies on YOU, not Capcom. He is not top tier, overpowered, or any other myths that lazy scrubs put out. He was fine in SFIV, they weakened him a good deal in SSFIV (yes, they tampered with his cr. MK, SRK having lower priority, etc). They are weakening him AGAIN,and you still aren't happy? Man the **** up and stop hoping to get easy wins. You will always see Ryu online, regardless of how weak he is. You know why? HE IS A VIDEOGAME ICON!HE WILL ALWAYS BE POPULAR!
Glad to see guy getting some nice buffs. I feel his toughest matches are rog,sim,gief,and thawk. Hope these buffs help lock down these guys more on their wake up. Looking forward to seeing what they do with juri. I want her to have more options to land that U2.
Lets see Juri's Roundhouse Dive Kick actually reach ALL the way across the screen and not 3-4 feet shy. Also she could use a little more health. Other than that, I'm good.
Lets hear about some new characters too for goodness sake!
Waiting on Adon buffs.
Jaguar Tooth needs some serious rethinking. Even the light version is useless as an escape, far too much recovery time.
Seeing as Sagat is who Adon would have based his entire game around, you'd think he would have found a more reliable way to get around an onslaught of fireballs. Even it was just a way to dissolve them.
My only fear is that Gamerbee's recent success will make Capcom think he needs a nerf.
Make Makoto's regular Hayate an armor breaker, and I'll be happy.
Quit WHINING!
Count the buffs vs nerfs on each character - EVERY CHARACTER GOT BETTER. So what if that ONE move you liked is worse, chances are it was too good which is why you used it so much. Capcom is trying to make an even def/off. game and is trying to make moves important in only certain areas and circumstances just like old SFIIT mostly was. We are going to end up with the perfect fighter ever by the time the updates are done, so relax, get a sandwich and wait to see how fair these changes end up to be.
I'm not saying they'll all be proven correct in time, but don't act like we're not getting annual updates to this game for a few years. It's just too easy and cost effective not to.
Rogs hb nerf was uncalled for, only idiots who leave themselves wide open get hit by that. would have like for a buff on dirty bull, but u1 is still overrall better... and yes, honda needs some serious nerfs.
Also thanks to Sonicshot and Shiryu.
Let's make good debate the point of this site, our scene is to small to go whining to a big corporation and expect them to appease us. We gotta keep up a level of appearance and Sonic and Shiryu did that.
Cool.
Now give me my Strider Guy outfit and I have a new main.
I dont see how ppl can say ryu got better. They made his only poke worse and his toward hard punch weaker. And now if you get him in the corner, he has no escape. I wonder what type of ryu players you guys fight if they use far standing medium punch, and close hard kick all the time, which is what they buffed....
i hope this helps put an end to balrog's special to link light punch spamming, which if you master has absolutely no recovery frames to punish. also i'm really disappionted they didn't nerf kens over head, for both the sake of the move and its kara throw properties.
I agree with everything #156 said. Juri was supposed to be a badass but she is just bad. 90% of the people that were excited to play her before super released gave her up a long time ago. EX pinwheel is a joke. It trades way too much and its never in your favor. How about giving it 19 frames of invincibility like rufus ex messiah? You can even fadc ultra out of that move and even if you dont he gets a free mix up on some characters.
Posted by gam3fr33k on October 26, 2010 at 9:21 a.m. #165
I dont see how ppl can say ryu got better.
-He got ANOTHER move to cancel into his shoryuken.
They made his only poke worse and his toward hard punch weaker.
-By a few frames...um and Still doing 230 dmg instead of 250 is not gonna stop the moves usefulness AT ALL.
And now if you get him in the corner, he has no escape.
-If only Ryu had a Get out jail free card like a Shoryuken or a EX Tatsu or a EX Shoryuken.
I wonder what type of ryu players you guys fight if they use far standing medium punch, and close hard kick all the time, which is what they buffed....
-It's ok Ryu had no other moves he could use...
Okay, ignoring all of you morons arguing about buffs and nerfs (as usual)...
The 'Ultra Costume Pack 1' and the catalog thing are up for download on XBL Marketplace. However, attempting to download them will give you an error message. The same error message appears when you try to enter the XBL Marketplace via the SSFIV main menu. No clue why it's like that.
@ 156 -OOhlookamonster-
Ya know what? I COULDNT AGREE MORE!! You really hit it on the nose there buddy. I love Juri and think she is such a great character, but also think that she suffers a lot more than more than half the cast. Its just unfortunate.
Oh wow, so much hate towards Ryu. Which is weird, because as it is, he's not the powerhouse from Vanilla. He's really good, no doubt, but so are a lot of other chars. Losing to DP spamming Ryu's is not because Ryu is overpowered, you'd probably lose to the same guy playing Sagat/Ken then.
@ akatruthteller
I've seen some of your comments on 0ShinAkuma0's videos on youtube, and here, you sound just as retarded. Please just stop wasting time on silly and stupid comments.
@ 157
If they were to buff Jaguar Tooth, then armor break needs to go. Capcom shouldn't base buffs/nerfs one 1 players accomplishments, so can't see why they'd nerf him because GamerBee rocks with him. They'll nerf him if they feel the need to.
On topic, the hardest nerf for Ryu is clearly the c.mk, but honestly, I don't get the buffs. Is there ever a time when s.hk would be better to use than s.hp for instance? Can't really see how it help, but guess time will tell. Silly C. Viper buff, almost useless. I don't play her much, so dunno what she might need, but can't imagine she is perfect as is save for ultra 2 hitbox... xD
Personally, I'm hoping for nerfs to the turtlers. Imo, turtling is waaaaaay too effective, and can't wait to see what happens once you are forced to play chars like Honda/Balrog/Bison more offensively.
Speaking of which, Bison seriously needs tuning. Some of his stuff is whack and lately, people seems to have noticed. Lk scissors kick makes me wanna cry. And please, show some love for Gen. I just hope it's not the same kind of buff from SF4 to SSF4. :P
@175
Lol yeah, that "buff" they gave Gen... Lol. ;P
GIVE BLANKA A 3 FRAME STARTUP lk like you did guy!! PLEASE!
@ 175
Just make it so all versions of Bison's Scissor Kick push him back far enough so he cant spam it again and again.
Ex. if the current SK attacks 3 cm long and leaves him 2 cm near the opponent then it's a problem!
He should be pushed back 5 cm at the minimum.
SK already hit's twice and does good chip leaving it spammable is just wrong!
make ryu overhead cancelable and double the active frame of dp. also give ryu back the super trap. this will make ryu a mid-tier character unlike the bottom one he is now.
- one love
Hurra for Guy's buffs!!!
And to Cammy...
http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/93...
all man i was hoping ryu would get proton cannon and an 8 way air dash and a new 1 ko ultra. i hope they add that in ssssj4fighter 4
@180 i agree, but that wont make him mid tier lol he'll be god tier undoubtedly. Also lol at ppl thinking Ryu cant tatsu out of corner still lol he can still. Its just a bit more strict which skilled players will have no problem with learning the timing lol.
Ryu will still be the best, his cr mk is going to lose maybe two active frames, no big deal at all. Heck i don't even play footsies that often, and i beat 5500+ to 5800+ pp players all the time. (not easily since they're my skill lvl) Solar plexus dmg decrease lmao thats hardly a nerf its just, ok so we still can land it 4 to 7xs in a 3 round match lol. Escaping corner also not too bad since we can still use it as an escape tactic the more skilled Ryu players, like myself will perfect the timing lol easy. In turn we get a better tatsu cross up tbh its a win/win. Really Ryu got no nerfs except slight cr mk nerf which is not a big deal for skilled players. The far Mp will only help Ryu punish even more, the close sHK as well. Ryu really only got 1 nerfs which was slight. If they nerf rufus, guile ( hes definitely getting nerfed lol), chun, and bison Ryu will be # 1 lol i know it you know it. Lol, gj capcom making the cry babies think you've nerfed Ryu when all you did is trick them lmao. RYU = SF gOD lol.
i'm glad to see that guy got a lot better, balrog and ryu got a little weaker and that cammy can't do that dam ICS like she could before....although for some reason i think it may still be possible...who knows...i just hope that they don't nerf vega too badly.... *crosses fingers*
alright Capcom make me happy. NERF THE CRAP OUT OF BISON. please i really miss playing him (not playing him because im not a teir-whore, never have, never will).
"Super Nerf Fighter 4: Arcade Edition!" =D
It's amazing, no matter what they do, the fans will always have something to complain about.
I'm alright with these changes, not because I don't play these characters, but I feel that they will add more spice to the game overall, considering that Ryu and Cammy are extremely safe on (almost) anything they do.
If they nerf Rose, however, they had better make it reasonable to her character, for I don't see her bending the game in any way, shape or form.
@187
Bison's Ultra 2 can be hit with a tiger upper cut from full screen after a tiger shot.
Don't know if Ryu could do it.
I fight a lot of Bison's online, but he doesn't seem to cheap unless the other player has his turbo button on. Before he get meter you could rape him on wake up. However that cross up crusher always owns me lol
Rufus does need some nerfs. If you are going to keep his tornado safe on block, then decrease the damage. I mean for fack sakes it can be linked by a s.HP and it's still safe,that's too much Damage. Imagine Ken being safe after a HP SRK. Ultra one needs damage down as well since it's the easiest ultra in the game to combo into.
Decrease Chun-li's ultra one range to 3/4 screen rather than full.Too many turtles who just sit in the corner. As a Sagat player do they really expect me too go have a footsie war with Chun-Li?
Make Sagat's U2 hit more after being combo'd into, facking ryu's can (lol).
Lastly, make Fei Longs U2 like ONE quarter circle BACKWARDS. I think you'd see it connect more.
i am a bison player, stop with this bison hate. he is perfectly balanced. he got no "balrog/guile" type anti air. his c.lk's are unreliable. all of his wake up options can be option selected. scissor kick pressure is not that spammable, all somone has to do is neutral jump and hit him on the way down. bison with no meter = FREE. LEAVE BISON ALONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@ F1ip
...what?
Just because you can't use dictator properly doesn't validate your argument. Bison's st. HK is quite possibly the best anti-air poke in the game. the head stomp has an insurmountable amount of priority, its an over head and if blocked he can fly back to the other end of the stage. making it nonpunishable. his cr lk is a fantastic combo starter, and can very much be looped. and just about every wake up option can be option selected if you know what counters what. if you're bison with no meter you're turling too much and you need to get in and build some so you can turtle safely.
@203
how much u wanna bet they nerf him to uselessness. I mean blanka is the character scrubs cry about the most so im excepting them to totally destroy him and if thats the case im just gonna go ahead and wait for marvel.
@204
bisons rh is not the best anti air in the game, it has to be space correctly or it will trade or lose so please get ur facts straight. c short might be a combo starter but its not a high dmg combo, the best thing it does is score a knock down, go do c shorts into scissors in training mode and see how that it does only about as much dmg as one rh. ANd if ur getting hit by random headstomps then u really need help, tracking sucks on it and anyone worth fighting against understands that walking backwards>headstomp. ANd his wakeup options are all punishable with ex crusher being his most popular reversal, bait it out and just turn and punish.
But no, NERF EVERYTHING. Sf4 matchups is gonna be based on who sucks the least instead of strenghts versus weakness vs playstyle. But thats what u get when u try to please the casuals, the same casuals that have already sold this game back to gamestop for halo.
Well if I may just interject my opinion on two things-
I'm not going to say whether or not I think Bison's Ultra 2 is overpowered, but I do think the changes to it are pretty valid.
One of Cammy's more obvious weaknesses in my opinion is how unsafe her Cannon Spike is on block or whiff. I dunno if it's more fair or less fair that it's even more risky now. Gotta wonder, though... Does this mean we can only Instant Dive Kick with the EX Dive Kick?
And #4 kinda hit the nail on the head- Nobody is going to (or should for that matter) change who they play as because of all this, unless they're a jackass.
Also, gonna triple post here, but...
@207
"Sf4 matchups is gonna be based on who sucks the least instead of strenghts versus weakness vs playstyle."
More like, based on which PLAYERS suck the most. There's plenty of players who could probably beat you using Hakan or Dan, even if you used a top tier character.
Comment 5 is either a master troll or a Daigo C*ck rider.. You can only be one..
@210
Nice response. That does nothing to challenge what i said before. But nice troll attempt though. When u have something valid to say post it, until contine to mash dps and ultras everytime someone comes close to u.
Tier's don't mean much because you'll never have two players who are exactly skilled. No one is the same, in life or in this nerdy case, video games lol.
Remember that video of Sanford kicking Mariodudes ass with Dan while he faced Bison and Gief?
How about Wildcat's Hakan Beating Daigo's Ryu.
It really does come down too the players for the most part. I agree some characters have really good match ups against others, but ONE great player can change a 6-4 against them to a 7-3 in their favour.
Anyone want less priority on T.Hawks Ultra and 360's? I don't know what you'll think but I do lol.
Lastly, how about making Ken's cr.lp cr.lk st.lp. cr.lp cr.mk EX TATSU a bit tighter? It's so easy too do. But Ken is a great character. Can't hate on the guy.
@217
I pretty much agree with most of what you said, but personally I tend to find T Hawk to be really easy to evade.
I'd like to see what they'll do to Gen, Vega, and Sakura. It would be pretty cool if Vega could have a degree of control at what angle his Bloody High Claw hits( like Adon's Jaquar Tooth), along with allowing a limited mix up game of sort with his Sky High Claw in which the altitute of his strong punch version was dropped to the lowest altitude acting as a sweep. Everything else at default. So yeah, a Ground Low Claw would be awesome.
I'm so happy, everyone of those buffs for Guy were *precisely* the things I was hoping for. Looking forward to the rest of the changes for the other characters!
If a rufus player trys a block sting (dive kick st. lk xx st. hp xx GT) then you can uppercut before the galactic tornado hits you.
Stop complaining and learn the game.
Cammy Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhaahahahah this was necessary and again hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
@ Every kid crying about Cammy.
You kids blow or something? You can't get in on anyone without instant cs? Give me a break, how the hell did you get close enough to instant cs in the first place? If you can't keep someone down or pressure them without instant cs when cammy has great 3frame lp lk pokes, tick throws, mix ups and speed you suck ass, bye. Oh ya I use Cammy alot btw so no tears about my post. If a kids humping the floor blocking and refusing to do anything but try to reversal you or os tech (every kid online) and you can't deal with it without tkcs......get good man.
If they change Bison and Balrog's Ultra motion...
CHANGE VEGA(u1) DEEJAY(u2) BLANKA(u2) and GUILE'S(u1) Motions! From Stupid to USEABLE!!
This supposed to be a casual friendly game right? That's why the auto-correct, LARGE reversal window and SHORTCUTS are still included.
JUST MAKE THE HARD ULTRAS THAT ARENT BROKEN FRIENDIER!!
@Obituaries: If you're so good then learn to read. It's all low cannonstrikes, not just instant (presumably higher than Juri's divekick needs to be, since she can do her divekick buffered on the ground with a delay). Without her low strikes Cammy's rushdown is severely nerfed, and rush-down is her only forté. I don't see them taking away vipers low burn kicks or restricting Rufus' divekicks which are already superior.
@232
People here are to stupid to see that. To nerf her low dive kick and allow rufus to keep his isnt right especialy when rufus has other safe options ie his galatic tornado. If they wanted to nerf her cannon strike they should have atleast made her drills alot safer.
F*cking pathetic, jus F*CKING pathetic
nerfing cammy this hard and buffing ryu, JUST BECAUSE daigo had trouble with Sako.
f*ck this noob game, SCRUBCOM is kissing daigo's ass
thats it, im stepping over to Arcana Heart 3 Completely
Ex run stop follow up has super armor! yyeeeeeeeeeeessssssssssssssss! u know what that means... think about it.... ex run through fireballs stop right in front of opponent.... u2.... helll yeah....
@234
Instant CS is nerfed and that stems from Capcom's undying love for Daigo? Umm... Wow.
@mark_morrison
I'm not saying scissors need to die in a fire, but lk scissors in the corners are retarded, and also mid screen, since it's sage and Bison is close enough to do another. For a character that good all around, who can also turtle you to oblivion, amazing corner pressure is a tool too much. Most characters can pressure you in a corner, sure, but Bison's amongst the best, and his lk scissors in the corners is severely underrated. Imagine Ryu having you in the corner and doing 2-hit SRK. That is safe on block. With range. Granted, it doesn't have the priority of SRK, but it's an crazy awesome move, and 2 hits makes it non FA-able. Standing RH is amongst the craziest moves in the game, and a turtle Bison abusing this move is amongst the most boring matches you can ever meet. It's an all around move with no real weakness.
Last thing. How the hell can it be Bison can do cross up with j.hk?
The nerf on Cammy's CS is just idiotic. It will be especially ridiculous if they don't make a change to Rufus' divekick. Option selects > dive kick pressure. It's not really hard to stop the dive kick pressure, but it is essentially to Cammy's game. Making her combos easier hardly compensates for that, especially when most of her combos aren't bad if you plink. Also getting rid of TKCS, and only having the EX version, will cause Cammy to lose her most damaging combos ("Sako combos") unless she has meter. Furthermore, using the meter on the TKCS will cause you to potentially lose FADC Ultra. The nerf is way too heavy in my opinion. Cammy isn't as strong as people make her out to be; taking her TKSC away will only cripple her, not make her balanced.
Oh yeah, cammy for crap tier.
Her only proper offensive tool just got ****ed. Meanwhile, they add no input dive kicks like rufus and yun/yangs. Good job capcom, good job.
Now turtles can hold down back all day vs cammy and not even suffer chip damage.
@Psychoninz: The better question is why the fudge do most of bison's jump ins crossup?
@237
In the corner u can only get about 2 to 3 scissors before bison is far enough for u to jump. So i do the first scissors, short cancel scissors, and if range perments i do low strong scissors or just scissors, after that i can still do another and get only the first hit of the scissors, u can focus or better yet nuetral jump hit it or jump out. U honestly shouldnt be leting urself get in the corner versus bison anyway, u know thats exaclty what he wants. It would be like runing away from dhalsim, ur just giving him the upper hand.
@239
Wow, u just proved that u dont play this game. The only legit cross up bison has is jump forward. The jump fierce and jump rh only crosses up very few situations and the spacing is so specific that it will whiff most of the time. U want to talk about cross options look at ken.
Seriously, the fact that they try to balance the game aroud people like is sad.
so far, the nerfs have been for the sake of balancing. I really want them to balance all the chars, even my ken, i would really get interested what kind of buff or nerf they will do for ken.
On the case, Probably some people are having the same problem as a have against bison and seth, their mobility and the freedom to do whatever the hell they want. i accept their play-style, but people use them to run away to spam the same move. They want to win by chipping to death, expecting me to lose my focus to comboing me. c'mon is that the way to use those chars? show me your skills with the char. For that purpose i want them to be balanced, so people stop spamming and fight seriously. I don't hate them or anything in the respect, i just want to have fun and properly whether i lose and win. I think i'm sure most of us have the same or similar problem with any particular char or i'm wrong.
@242
Well said. I don't mind losing to a better player, but at least try to play instead of sitting in the corner waiting for me to give openings. There should be a balance between offensive and defensive playstyle.
@241
Well, it's not like I walk in to the corner and wait for the Bison player to walk up to me. The corner is always a great place you have your opponent, but once in a while you find yourself there, even though you try not to. :P Usually, I play Gen. I can't zone out a Bison player, so if the Bison player knows what to do, I might eventually be pushed into the corner. A match vs a Bison player with Gen usually comes down to who's the better offensive player, or whether or not the Bison player turtles enough for me to mess up. I have very few safe options as Gen, and I mean very few, and that's not just vs turtle chars. But turtle chars are the worst since they seem to have the biggest punishments.
Dont care much about the changes, I want my Deejay to be buffed man..
Both ultra's are freakin useless, U1 never ever been used in a match and U2 in the corner, yea right? Ex MGU --> Dash --> U2 is way too difficult, not even beginning about a little lag in a match. CAPCOM, he NEEDS some BUFFS man!
P.S. Adon too
!!!ONCE AGAIN!!!
NO ONE in Super Street Fighter 4 is "cheap" or overpowered!!!
It all depends on YOUR skills! Stop whining and complaining about so and so is cheap, such and such isn't fair. Everyone has their OWN way of fighting and approaching a situation. It all comes down to seeing your opponent's strategy and your ability to execute the right move at the right distance and at the right moment.
In order to get any better at this, you will probably have to STOP using the SAME strategy, take some beatings, learn, and practice. I'm NO EXPERT, and of course I don't win ALL the time, but even I know the basics to getting better at a fighting game.
!!!STOP COMPLAINING AND LEARN TO WIN!!!
@244
so make bison suck because gen sucks? That type of additude will make this game boring fast. U should be asking for gen upgrades instead of nerfs for other character especially when there isnt one character that just towers over the rest like sagat did in sf4.
@ #246
Dude, calm down.
Not everbody plays that hardcore to win a match.
I for example, dont care much about winning or losing, what i like about fighting games are combo's. And it sucks (since deejay is my main) that i cant even per form a combo with a ultra in it because it is A: way too dificult or B: cant even combo into an ultra. That sucks for me man.
I dont always want to headbutt to ultra just to get a flashy combo, every freakin char. should have something to combo their ultra into, and not only corner specific or something, thats just weaksauce.
YOU GUYS ARE SO GOD DAMN STUPID.
im so tired of looking at these comments and seeing people bitch about the god damn cammy nerf. IT WAS A SMART MOVE ON THERE PART.
1. its not like her game is completely gone, now she just has to use the ex version instead, wich adds a layer of depth to her combat becaus now you have to think of meter conservation etc....
2. its not like she no longer has a dive kick, shell probably be able to do it relatively fast still, just not fckin instant, big woop. i mean cry me a river but good rufus's and cammies still spam there dive kicks, grab mixup all day. its mindless and makes it less fun for everyone
3. now her normals seem to be much stronger also, so it overall its just making her more intresting and yeah, a little weaker, but less fcking boring and repetitive
@Kira Timmy
no one cares if you can't perform or set up combos. we all deal with the execution requirements capcom imposes on this game. this post was about balance changes i.e. factors that affect the chances of a character WINNING against other characters.
@249
typical scrub
and theyshould nerf Bison instead of Cammy
IVE READ EVERY SINGLE COMMENT HERE. WHY is every1 moaning about bison. pro bison is ALL about sc kick pressure. his normals are good but he still needs to be used properly to win. bison losses his life usually with mistake jumpins. if u lot are losing to brainless bisons, what does that say about yourselfs? u must be very inpatient vs bison also very bad at reading bison pressure.
Ssf4 is by far the most balanced fighting game atm. If people actually learned their characters properly and their matchups you wouldnt be complaining. Everybody wants buffs on their mains. ITs hiliarous.
I play all the 35 characters in the game. im an arcade player from london/casino. All chrcts have options vs the entire cast. So whats the prblm. some matches are difficult yes so its the game its also sopose to be challenging.
IF u won every match with ur main u'l h8 this game. because its no longer challenging.
Everybody has forgoten what ssf4 is. its a competitive fighting game. so not only do u need experince skill technique to win, but also being able to read your opponent.
If we are talking about OP chacrs. clearly with my 10yrs of fighting game experiance.
HONDA = BRICKWALL
GUILE = easy wins in super
CHUNLI = POKEMASTER
characters for buffs clearly in super
poor HAKAN
MAKOTO
VIPER clearly needs buffs on her normals now. due to her not being able to punish other chactrs becoz of her start ups,
i have faith in capcom for these balance changes.
@ 250
my bad, but in that case both of deejays ultras are still useless, in case of winning. for exmaple eating a dragon punch then ultra from ryu, well i want to perform an ultra to come back into the game, but u2 is kinda impractical for only use in the corner since the ryu player most likely will turtle, and u1 is almost never a success because i little skilled sf player wont shoot fireballs anymore..and then he waits till the time runs out, i attack..get punished bam* i lose! bottomline, BUFFS so he can WIN! satisfied..
As a Cammy player I would happily trade the additional frame advantage on her normals to keep her TK Cannon Strikes; imho they really bring something unique and enjoyable to her game, and other characters have as good/better dive kicks anyway (yeah, that's right Rufus, I'm looking at you), and I'm fine with her links being hard making her a more advance character... if she can get the same kind of damage out of easier links she's gonna get ridiculous. Hell, if they have to make any changes to her Cannon Strike I'd like to see it actually count as an overhead (like it really should anyway) so you could throw it out there for a high-low mix up once in a while.
I guess as a Cammy player I really just wanna see my character get buffed but rather than worrying about nerfing her dive kicks, I'd rather they focused on making her moves that are currently useless (ie, Quick Spin Knuckle and Hooligan Combination) actually a viable option once in a while; if it were up to me, I'd make it so she could cancel the dive on her Hooligan Combination into a Cannon Strike like she can in CvS2, etc. (with the Cannon Strike counting as an overhead) to scare people out of just ducking as soon as they see it, and I'd make her Quick Spin Knuckle A LOT quicker, and have it invincible against lows as well as fireballs (including Akuma's air-fireball and Gouken's upward arching fireballs) until the hitbox goes active. Her standing-close-roundhouse is a bad joke at the moment as well... but I guess this is all just the wishful thinking, and I can't deny she's damned strong as it is so I guess I can't complain really...
@ shadaloo
for the most your right but i feel, abels tornado throw needs a slight damage nerf as well as breathless shouldnt b cancel able, viper is fine as is, and sakura, gen, gouken and t. hawk need buffs...
@kira timmy
all i hear is whining. you basically just said that you depend on ultras to win. again whose fault is that? play ryu or balrog if you want easy ultra set ups. i agree dee jay needs buffs but not because you're too lazy to put time in like any competent dee jay player has. i know i'm sounding like an srk elitist but someone has to draw the line between legitimate complaints and a bunch of bullsht whining.
@ 244.
lol Yea man.. I do agreed. I hate playing againsts people like that; however, I don't blame it on the characters. Its just that some people are dummies and they likes to irritate others for fun by spamming. Its either that or they are noobs. ssf4 is a complicated game, so inorder for noobs to win, they will have to stick to what they are good at, which isn't very much. (thats why they spam, thats the only stragety they kno)I mean... anyone can say whatever they want, but if you guys can't do anything to beat these noobs, then chances are, you are one yourself. =P no disrespect to anyone.
Oh and I actually thought that ryu got nerfed, which is fine with me; I'm a ryu player. I'm actually looking forward to seeing what he can do with these new options. I mean... say what you want but HK air tatsu cross up only does about 90 damage. Whats so scary about that? you can't even combo into it unless you have super or your at the corner so thats not even a huge deal. also nobody uses close HK. Close HK won't be anything big unless you can cancel on the second hit. Also far MP is kinda like crchin MK so whats the big difference.
And I'm tire of the Daigo and ryu haters. I mean seriously. In sf4, ryu was pretty low in tier. No body wanted to used him. It wasn't until Daigo started experimenting with him that ryu became top tier. GIve Daigo so respect. He is a humble guy.
Any characters have potential. Look at Adon and Gamerbee. Perfect example. Just experiment and learn how to play the character. unless you are you want to be competitive and practicing 4-5 hours a day effectively, stop whining about nerfs and buffs. (this should only hurt those who it applies to so if it doesn't applie to you, it shouldn't hurt you.)
I think the big annoyance is why is Bison u2 turning to charge while Chun's isn't.
Well honestly everyone knows the skill argument is BS when it comes to characters who don't have the necessary tools to beat or even get in on certain characters like Ryu, Honda, Chun, Balrog or Akuma to name a few.
Dan, Hakan, Makoto, Sakura, Gen most of the low tiers basically. Hakan rush him down he is done, Gen same thing and just bait out his DP, Sakura not a very decent reversal, Makoto well what else hasn't been said and Dan well he is a joke character but he should have some decent tools at least.
How can anyone say the low CS removal is for the sake of balancing? Cammy is crippled without it. Why should she have to use meter for a technique that Rufus /Yun/Yang can do for free without a "real" input. Rufus' divekick can be done much faster, easier and it can lead to an ultra combo without any real effort. Cammy's actually takes skill to use and doesn't often lead to a game changing combo. And regardless of everything like I said before, option selects > dive kicks.
Yea man... i do agreed at the fact that those characters are harder to used and they take a lot more skill and brain power to be good. but then that doesn't mean they suck. It just means it will take a lot more to master them. for example. an average hakan will never be better than a pro ryu and an average ryu can never be better than a pro hakan. The only differences is that if two players at the same level played, ryu might have the upper hand because of his flexibility. But still thats the hakan's fault for not being better than the ryu player. same level= loses. higher level=wins.
You guys complaining about Bison are all terrible and lack vs Bison experience. Especially the guy saying rh is an AA and he has an easy time on wakeup. Rh is a terrible AA and it is Bison's main weakness. Bison is also free on wakeup, and even freer against characters who can punish ex psycho. He is really no threat at all on wakeup, and nearly everything is punishable. Seriously, you guys cant get past st.rh and then cry all day, despite every character having a dozen ways to get around that move. Get into training mode and see or go ask on SRK.
Bison only looks as good as he does because the lower tier characters need buffs, not that he needs nerfing. He loses to higher tiers like Chun, Honda (hard), Guile (hard), and the rest of the higher tier matchups are debatable between being 5-5, 5.5, or 4-6 in the other character's favor.
No one in this game is overpowered with Sagat nerfed (the exception being Honda, due to damage output). Rather, some characters are UNDERPOWERED. You would see this if any of the complainers went to tournaments (or at least had over 4k PP.)
Not an exact rule, but a good rule of thumb:
if a character has a 7-3 matchup against a mid-tier or higher, that 7 character needs a nerf. If there is a 7-3 match up against a lower tier character, that lower tier 3 character, needs a buff.
Well the skill argument is BS due to the fact like I said the character advantages no matter how good a Hakan player can get a Ryu player can make it work with the basics or Honda who's headbutts also stop Hakan quite well
You could use the Wildcat video but that's not a valid enough showing of skill because it's not a tournament it's online where these pros don't usually take it serious also if it where a 2 out of 3 or a FT10 the Ryu player would easily figure out the shenanigans and put him down for good.
Oh yeah forgot BTW I never said these guys suck it's like I have mentioned before that all that time to master them isn't usually the big payoff as people make it seem to be especially since the scene is dominated by characters who take much less effort to get down.
i think they forgot to mention that ryu can now cancel his standing jabs into ultra2 just like ken's ultra2 set-up.
which they still nerfed ryu very bad...
why people cry cuz the nerfs?? people say tier list dont matter..... so... if there are nerf on the best character whats the matter?? why cry about it? all is based in the skills right?? hahahahaha so dont cry about nerfs if you are good you will be still good xD
that is for people saying... stop nerfing "my favorite character or my main" "dont nerf thing that arent broken"
so funny
Soooo yea... basically ssf4 is a novice dream and i have yet to hear anyone in the fighting community where im from that a PRO gamers say anything positive about the game other than how good it looks, it seem to me that Americans always want the easy way out of things and not work for what they want which is why all those people from ova East come over here and take evo,seasons beatings,etc. The cammy nerf was totally not needed what so ever its seems to me that capcom doesnt want the NOOBS to eat a mix up and thats why people like her,gen,viper, and abel also are getting a nerf so now after chasing down all you million of online noobs and turtles who hide behind your shotos and your charge characters with EXTREMELY good normals and SAFE moves(bison,rog,guile,chun,honda,blanka players yea im talking bout you do something!!!!) but now are mix up options are being taken away and for what, cammy is a very GOOD character but at the same time a very FAIR character. None of her moves are safe on block minus a deep dive kick and a maxed ranged spiral arrow(which by the way is character knowledge on spacing so not by any means is that cheap). She has no real pressure beyond face forward attacks which can be broken by a mashed out prioritizing move.
My gripe with this game and this has been since vanilla is that moves are too safe which means people turtle and chip all day with almost no penalty(looking at the charge characters again and adon) making SKILLED players fight extra harder against someone with cheesy online tactics. Balrog gets a ultra for free from headbutt in any situation(dont cry to me about damage scaling the ultra after it cuzz its free dmg), the cheapest jab in the game which stuffs almost anything,1050 health,a weird hitbox for one of the biggest characters in the game,and godlike normals. My question is WHY IS A PERSON LIKE THIS IN THIS GAME?!?!?!?!?! But yet the NOOBS who cant read a mix up complain about a move that is in no way as bad as Rufus dive kick its just provides offensive options for a offensive character... if this nerf goes through i will be calling it quits for this turtle/noob fest that everyone (who probably cant play another fighting game to save their life and just like this one cuzz its soooo user friendly) calls so balanced..smdh. oh yea her combos where fine no cammy user complained about it we grinded it out links and all, she needed a good cross up not a nerf!!!!!!!!!
oh yea i forgot if you dont use cammy then how the hell you going to tell a cammy user that she still going to be good regardless, would balrog be the same without a 3frame jab, would bison be the same without safe light kick scissors, no so unless you lace up your british boots and step in the arena please stop because you really sound like someone TYRING to sound xpert but its coming out ass-anign
@280 wow dog u let it all out huh? dude relax its just a game, i mean if all the ppl that are online playing this "GAME" bother u then just dont play. dude your having a heart attack over what you call noobs. sorry dude if some of us ppl have jobs, girlfriends, and or social lives that keep us from playing 10 hours a day to get as good as you dog! go f**ken smoke a blunt or something man.
hahahaha and instant cannon stroke no more? maybe it will need to be more high to perform but I surely it will not afect too much, you dont know how high need to do, and thats righ if they nerf cammy dive kick, then nerf the others dive kick...
anyway I really dont talk about cammy, my post was for turtles like guile, chun, rog, honda... well all know who characters are turtles, so I really believe nerfs are need it too
once again, lets see the game in action to see how it affect cammy and the others....
and if someone ask I main vega ;)
@282 I'll say what i want when i want and i cant smoke cuzz ima grown ass man and my 60k a year job doesnt allow it... and MY GIRL doesnt approve of it and its a bad example for my SON plus what do i look like as a 30 YEAR OLD MAN doing that, the point im trying to make is STFU ima say what i want and save the ebonics for someone who not educated DOG!!!!!!!!!!
Wow Chuck chill but I get what your saying BTW you forgot to add the crazy priority regular throws have in the game add a guard meter it would help.
@283
i have said it before and ill say it again. Turtleing isnt a character specific problem, its a game mechanic issue. U need to address crap like trip guard and crouch teching first.
I HOPE BLANKA GETS OVERPOWERED, ITS HIS TIME TO BE TOP TIER FOR A CHANGE. ROAR!!!
@280
Couldn't agree with you more lol. A lot of ppl think she's such an amazing character, but if you look at the tier listing, (which everyone seems to love to quote) you'd see Cammy has a disadvantage to the top 6 and some other characters. Dedicated Cammy players put a lot of time into learning those links and timing of her combos for Capcom just to dumb it down and make it easier!
There's no point in talking about the TKCS anymore because it really just comes down to Cammy players saying we need it vs non Cammy players who can't stand the pressure (a little biased sounding i know, but so what, I'm a Cammy player lol). My question to all the non Cammy players out there is: What would you use to pressure your opponent if you didnt have TKCS? We all know she's not a character who can just sit back because she doesnt have a projectile and her normals are pretty garbage in terms of zoning. She's an offensive character that lays on pressure without a decent cross up. A properly timed jab can beat out a TKCS (for us ppl who dont have Daigo reaction skills to dp lol) and if our TKCS is too low to the ground, you can mash jab and trade hits which is a pretty good thing for you guys. You cant jab out of Bison's lk scissor kick pressure and a good Bison will use his scissor kick as much as Cammy uses her TKCS.
Cammy already has a very tough time vs defensive based characters. Taking away her strongest mix up game to beef up her normals (which i bet are still gonna get beaten out by Chun Li and Balrog's normals) isnt goign to make things much much more difficult.
To all you haters crying about how there are so many noob Ryu's and you want Ryu to get a nerf to eliminate them.
Well if they are just scrubs who spam dp why can't you beat them, unless your a total noob yourself. Try blocking for a change or baiting?
The close RH link into shoryuken is useless. Ryu can already link with standing fierce so whats the point of calling this a buff when Standing fierce does more damage?
His nerf to crouching medium kick is going to significantly affect his footsie game. Currently not sure about the air tatsu because Ryu needs more mix up and by removing one of his defensive moves for an offensive move could help his transition from a more zoning character to a more balanced mix of rush down and zoning.
If it was up to all you haters, Ryu would be out of the game, then you would all cry over another character and have him removed until its fuking Dan vs Dan.
Why don't you just stop blaming your losses to Ryu on him being 'OP' and blame it on your own lack of skill.
@290 Funny how the Ryu posring ended a while back we have more important issues than that EZ mode fireball turd this is Cammy here and one of her best tools.
@chickenwings
*sigh*
I clearly said that Bison needs nerfing because Gen is a weaker character. No, I said Bison's corner pressure with lk scissors can be way too good, especially because he is a character with so many options, and most of them are safe. Really safe.
I agree though, turtling is a game issue, and it just happens some characters are better suited to turtle.
@270
That's not true and you know it. S.hk is a terrific move and definitely not his weakness. And it's an AA move kinda like Dhalsims backwards s.hk. It gets the job done if you jump in on him and works pretty well as an AA.
@293 - ??? That you can try to compare bison's st.rh as an anti air to sim's b+rh is baffling. b+rh is a GREAT AA, st.rh doesn't beat even *10%* of what b+rh does. Have you even tried going into training mode and testing??? Just go into training mode and see! It's really that simple. Sheesh. Lack of AA is Bison's well-acknowledged weakness. This is like arguing whether a move has frame disadvantage. -.- just go and see, please. The only way I can make sense of your post is you mean to say st.rh is a good pre-emptive guess AA, in which case it is. But that's not at all what sim's b+rh is like...
@293
Honestly, i already explained this to someone. Bison can only get off 2 to 3 reps of scissors in the corner(this is if i start doin them point blank), after that u can react accordingly and if u dont and u sit there like a punk guess what? Eat some more scissors. Bison is one of the few characters that can actually apply pressure(with cammy nerfed we have even fewer). ANd where are all these safe options? Light scissors is the only safe option up close, everything else needs to be properly spaced(about 2/3 screen to full screen) and if ur allowing me to randomly throw crap from full screen u should get hit for it.
And u keep mentioning his anti airs. Seriously now, its NOTHING like dhalsims knee, that statement right there tells me u dont understand the matchup. His rh only works when u jump at him from far away, like half screen, u need to get closer into him and basicly jump over it and use the right normal move. And still u have characters with jump ins that will beat it or trade like balrogs jump fierce and zangiefs jump forward.
@289
More overheads would be nice, but i feel there would be better ways to deal with it.
1)Shrinking the stage size(the marvel stages are smaller)
2)no more crouch teching
3)shrink the reversal window,
4)increase ex meter gain for attacking and u gain no ex meter for taking dmg(u get ultra for geting hit)
5)speed up all existing over heads in the game
After that add GUARD METER and bring back holds(yogi noogie, knee bash, headbites etc).
to add to chickenwings make all other overheads fast but make the two shotos the slowest ones
True, Dhalsims knee is a better AA than Bison's s.hk, but you guys are definitely not giving his s.hk enough credit. Imo, you guys are sounding just like the people crying for Ryu nerfs, only, defending Bison and claiming he's fine.
@299
why? thats dum. Its not like they combo out of it anyway.
Wtf....if they're going to make Bison's U2 a charge move and give it more recovery...that ultra better do 150 more damage, lol. It might be easy to do, but it does NO damage, especially off a combo. I don't know what videos you're watching if you think U2 is OP.
I think Makoto's EX Hayate should have Super Armor, getting around fireballs and tanks is what's killing her in this game. Maybe make Hard Hayate Armor Break and EX Super Armor. ;)
Guy changes look mesmerizing, he's finally coming around to being a perfect character. He's going to be mid tier or above, definitely. I wonder what Dudley's changing are going to be....please give his Rose chip damage! xD
The only way to stop Ryu from being online to to defang him, aka defang the Dragon aka the Dragon Punch. =P
One of Ryu's quotes says "In order to beat me you must first defeat my Shoryuken." What do you think that means? It's one of his strongest moves, outsmart him and you can get past it. Ryu is not for scrubby players. The SF4 engine has quirks that make it noob friendly, like huge reversal windows and being able to jab your way out of a black hole. Ryu is simply a side effect of the engine's elements.
Understand the engine you're playing in and you WILL have much more success.
I main Zangief, the hand change worries me... I wonder what's going to happen if I'm fighting a player who has two ex bars stocked and can FADC out of harm's way.
Cammy needs her backspin knuckle to be made three times as fast... it too telegraphed.
@Raven
The real problem with no knockdown is that when you hit it they can just throw you out of it as your going for a SPD or against another grappler they can reverse spd like it was mentioned in the AE Test Site earlier
Well, as a Dee Jay player i honestly want this:
Change his Climax beat to two half-circle backs + 3x Punch.
thats all.
Are the changes only going to be on the arcade version?
Lol you guys should play real games. The moment I saw cammy's nerfs and still no buffs for viper where as all the broken ass characters get buffs and really slight nerfs was the moment i knew capcom was trolling me. Safe moves, poor offensive options, great defensive options, super powerful projectile make this game boring.
I think Balrog's Ultra II should have an automatic stun just like Alex's Stun Gun Headbutt
SSF4 has a lot of problems . . . not complain, just speaking from a game designers point of view, for example, Guy, has a overhead that he can't combo off of? yet has Girl Health , but both Rog and Dud's, has one, and that they have 3 to 5 times the way to combo in to ultra over Guy?, Sadly Guy's TRGT CMBO doesn't hit 60% of the cast while ducking, Making his Punish Options Risky? yet they both have 3 frame start up Jab's???? why because they are Boxers! Yet a Ninja is not able to combo off everything? nor is he safe on any special move?, and sadly he has the most Damage Scaling on his Combos, all!!! not just some . . .
Were there people out there that actually felt Ryu was overpowered? Ryus are so easy to deal with if you aren't a moron. No reason for them to nerf him so badly.
For Ryu - I wonder if we'll start seeing cl. HK more in combos now. They didn't seem to nerf Boxer much.. hopefully, they didn't nerf his EX headbutt, too.