Evil Geniuses member Martin "Marn" Phan wrote an interesting blog this morning discussing how Americans can surpass Japan in fighting games, although this is applicable to all countries.Experience
A lot of it comes from experience. They play almost every single day after they come home from work and/or school. They get strategies from their fellow players, and in return they get the same treatment. However, there are some players who do the same thing as us... Save that stuff for nationals.
Remember when Nemo found all these option selects with Chun-Li and decided that he wouldn't tell anyone anything until after Tougeki? A lot of people have the wrong mindset of, "Oh all Japanese players are so nice, they always show each other things right when they see it," and it's completely not true. They do go into training mode... A lot. They find little things and even the smallest punish for every situation they are put in. It's a lot of time and dedication but it's also about them being able to develop it into their game.
Nice write up. The people who hate on Marn are stupid. They like to attack him because of his weight and other lame stuff instead and realizing the guy is out there traveling to tournaments and doing stuff like this to help the scene.
Marn pops off with things he shouldn't say sometimes, but he apologized for the last outburst which was good. If more players tried to do what Marn is doing the community would be better.
I don't feel like he said anything special in this post. I have the utmost respect for Marn, i don't even mind his taunting. However, I didn't get anything from this post. Practice more? Don't let the world know all your tricks. I already took this as a given.
Practice, Practice, Practice is the golden rule though.
@ Struggs completely agree everyone is so quick to go out and say the USA doesn't help it's own scene well the other countries do the same thing also. Waiting for people to try an argue that he is lying about this.
@Orphen446
Marn talked about how Japan isn't that far ahead of us and we wouldn't have to do much to catch them. This is altering a perception in the community that Japan is "so far ahead of us".
He also mentioned how Japanese players play it safe a lot and being more random and trying to disrupt their game plans can work well.
Marn also said we need to forget about the other stuff and just target the gameplay of others as a community. We need to analyze our matches and talk with each other about what's working and what isn't instead of focusing on lame things like someone who people thinks "taunts too much"
There's more in the article, but you have to really read it over to glean this stuff from it.
@#2
You really think his apology had nothing to do with the fact that hes an EG member now? Seasons beatings wasn't the first time hes insulted people like that and where were the public apologies then? He's a fantastic player and I love watching his dudley but is it really unreasonable for people not to like the guy. Marn needs to work on his behavior as much as his game.
if gamerbee keeps it up everyone will be talking about how all countries need to surpass taiwan.
one or two top players can make a country seem a lot stronger. look at what happened when justin wong and marn went from east coast to west coast. before it was how about the east coast is beast coast and all that, now the west coast completely dominates.
gamerbee is putting taiwan on the map for everyone and he's dominating in tourneys now. all it takes is a few of the right players to come up and come up strong and all of a sudden that country is a big force in the community.
@Struggs
Your reading comprehension is really lacking ain't it. Yes, he made an apology but it was most likely a forced apology because EG didn't like his behavior at seasons beatings. And I wasn't trying to put Marn down. I was addressing your decision to insult others by calling people stupid for disliking Marn when the reasons why a lot of people dislike him is understandable.
EG talked to me about what I said, but the apology was from my own mind. It was not because EG told me to do it. I wanted to be open about what I felt was wrong. Sorry. Assuming things is usually a bad idea, and it's true EG did talk to me. However, the apology again, was what I did after I realized how in the wrong I was for doing what I did.
what boggles my mind is WHY exacly are the creators also the majority best players in this? it's not like they drank special juice which was probably only available in Japan. i mean if say for example USA came out with SSF4, they wouldn't be the best cuz they made it. out of all the countries in the world, i would have thought t would be a small hicktown country like khazakstan to master the art. in between goat herding and milkin the cows, play a lil Street Fighter when you get a break. GO BORAT!!!
Just leave the poor kid alone. He's obviously very ignorant and can only get anything positive out of playing sf.
LOL @ forced apology. "MarN apologize for beating Daigo." O wait no.
Hey Marn,
At least you owned up to your errors. That I can respect.
However, this excuse about "everyone talks sh*t, Japanese players talk sh*t, etc etc etc" is kinda lame. It shows poor sportsmanship.
So who cares if everyone talks smack? Doesn't mean you have to follow the crowd. So should I follow everyone that makes fun of your weight because everyone else is doing it? Believe me, I don't condone their behvaior either.
Sometimes I think you do have some good things to say, but it's hard to listen to you when many find you offensive and annoying because of how you present yourself.
If you want to help the scene give people something to cheer about. If you want to be the bad guy, then it's great to watch you lose.
Seriously, if you want to expand this eSport, be ambassadors for it. If SSFIV is all about taunting and being jackasses, the mainstream audience won't care to watch it and sponsors will shy away.
i don't know which taunt you guys mean, talking sh!t or ingame taunt (R1 and R2). talking sh!t i usually dislike cuz it's just not cool. everyone was a "noob" as some may put it at some point in their life. even they're not, it's STILL not cool cuz it's unsportsman like. but, ... do you guy's think it would be ok to taunt if you play with a disadvantaged character like Dan and STILL manage to kick a$$ using R1 and R2? i think it's ok now and then, when you get em dizzy and you squeeze it in, but there is such a thing as overdoing it. Dan is a comic and he's hard to win with especially against high ranked players, but if you do kick some butt, you deserve to sneak in a taunt.
To be honest, I find Marn to be an inspiration.
Sure, he can act like a jerk and that is unexcusable. That's not what I find inspiring lol.
However, the guy is doing amazing things with a character that not too long ago people were saying was garbage. The guy has been bringing it. I hope I can make 1/10th the amount of growth with Juri that Marn has with Dudley. I spent 18 or so years playing Ryu and since Super IV released have started trying to better myself w/ someone new. I finally can financially afford to go to my first EVO next year. I look forward to giving it my all and hopefully getting to shake the hand of some of the best in the world. One of those people being Marn.
Keep it up Marn.
@Xeromos, i think your forgetting that tekken's mainstay is in Korea, which for the most part they obliterate us.
Hi Marn, I love your Duds, he's kewl. I don't like critics like the ones present at EventHubs, because most of them do not attend tournaments and they think they have the right to talk crap. I personally don't understand why it's such a big deal about what you said towards Daigo, because there was so much intensity and adrenaline in the room - you apologized, what more can people expect you to do? You are who you are, Daigo is who he is, let bygones be bygones and let's all get hype for the next tourney. Dang, some people take things too far.
Marn, you're a great player but I really found your apology to sound pretty half-assed. You even had to end that post saying that Daigo ruined the scene, which I don't understand in the slightest.
How to get better:
Practice with the best
Proof:
Gamerbee
(Does Marn go over how to FADC Taunt into Apology?
...sorry, couldn't resist.)
I don't like Marn that much(not hate) is not because of he is fat. it's just because of his acts. I like J Wong, i was hoping j Wong would beat Momochi last week.
If he just play the game, I think more people will like him and won't make fun of him as much. People were hating on him way before he beaten Daigo.
If our gaming skills are not far as the international players, why most of them are taking the money home from the tournaments?
@27 they are talking about stuff like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TLDJg...
at about 2:45 onward.
It's called being obsessive. Japanese people do it a lot. Their parents and society beat it into their heads about being the best at something no matter what it is. So most Japanese people find something, generally what they like, and try to master it. Americans on the other hand are taught to make money and have families and try to die rich. It doesn't matter if you are fat or successful as long as you have money. See where the gap in gameplay is? We don't obsess as much as they do, unless it's TV then we kick their asses.
@#33 He was talking about the fanboys ruining the scene. Moving on Marn apologized and that's it end of discussion I mean what more do you people want seriously if anything go after Sanchez who talks smack and calls it real talk disgusting.
@Marn I would also like to know why you didn't attempt those moves during Ryu's jump in's?
Great read. Not particularly well written, but the idea is a grand one.
People really should stop trolling and try to make something of themselves. I hope everyone can learn to adopt this mindset.
Good stuff Marn.
@Mr_Clack's latest comments: Honestly, can we -ever- get an article where the comments are at least mostly pertaining to Street Fighter? Just once, please. None of us are perfect, and you just named four cartoon characters, a fictional bus driver, and a 70s TV racist. If you're going to offer examples, at least go with non-fictional ones (though I believe many people here have a fictional version of Marn they use to hate on; that is the only way I can explain the degree of hate with which they act). Marn burning down their homes and leaving them destitute would not account the hatred you see from many people here; it's madness.
@goron_ninja: I think most of the "Japan rulez" perception comes from their traditionally strong arcade scene and their penchant for being extremely dedicated to fighting games therein. Truth be told, in the US (I'm not sure about the UK or the rest of Europe), fighting games have always been a niche. Only with SF4's release has it seen some consistent, lasting mainstream success as far as actually inspiring people to join the scene and get involved in tournaments (either as stream monsters or actually heading to events themselves). If this does last with Capcom's new line of fighting titles, it's possible the US scene can cultivate a more consistent generation of fighting game players. Nonetheless, the first step is to remove this barrier where Japan is always going to dominate no matter the situation--yes, they play a lot and they take it deadly serious in many cases, but that certainly doesn't make them unbeatable as we've seen. I honestly think that many people just can't take fighting these personas like Daigo when they have to go up against him in front of a crowd just because of this reputation that people have built up of him. (After all, it's been a few centuries since man routinely took on something the locals called "The Beast".)
That said, GamerBee seems to be more the exception than the rule. Until there's an actual SF scene emerging from Taiwan, I wouldn't expect them to be the "new Japan". As GamerBee said in one of those recent interviews, games in general there have a certain stigma that prevents their scene from growing. GamerBee's an awesome player doing really great things, so let's see how things go.
On a sidenote, props to the majority of people who responded in these comments without immediately jumping on the hate train. There may be hope for this site yet. It's fine to criticize Marn for trash talking or taunting or whatnot so long as it's kept at that and doesn't delve into completely irrelevant personal attacks. For the most part, this topic was--for once--handled maturely.
At any rate: Good stuff, Marn. Your Dudley's looking sharp and better each time we see him.
J Wong's attitude improved a lot after being bashed dozen of times from past experiences, Marn should do the same if he wants to show the world he isn't a jackass and starts showing sportsmanship wherever he goes.
I agree with what orphen446 said earlier that he tried to find fault or give himself an excuse to tell the world that it is okay if everyone practice keeping secrets and not share. Nemo alone doesn't represent Japan, what we are looking at is the majority of players there and it is true they always show each other things right when they see it.
Everyone was shocked when they saw Daigo perform the crouching fierce into Super against Arturo, if anyone thinks is Daigo's secret technique?, well think again this was already widely known in Japan according to Airgen. Imo this guy speaks the truth, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rmYPu...
Everyone talks sh*t in competition, except maybe chess players, dead people, and golfers. Lets not be that lame ppl. We're all young enough to have a sense of humor, and we're all young enough to take things with a grain of salt. Stop being such sensitive pansies. Its a game, its fun, and its hype when you win. If you're shutting people down and you taunt or talk sh*t, who cares? Seriously, who gives a sh*t? Its just talk. It creates rivalries, rivalries are entertaining and good for the scene because it motivates people to get better. If joe shmoe beat marn and he was really that salty about taunting or sh*t talk, Marn should train harder so that next tourney he can beat joe shmoe and return the favor.
Stop whining about what other people do and level up yourself. Mind your business. If someone talks sh*t to you, get better, beat them, and do as you wish with that victory. If Joe beats Billy and talks sh*t, who cares? Thats Joe & Billy's business; Billy needs to level up, you need to mind your own business.
With that said, I guarantee Marn isnt going to be a dickhead to you on a humbug.
@53 The way they put it is not a sense of humor. They make it a personal issue.
Anybody find it interesting that the only game America is disputably better than Japan at is the infamously unbalanced MvC2?
I want to play marn in tvc, anyways that match with daigo was insane.
Marn is a great player and there is nothing wrong with being proud of it. There's no denying however, that he's a poor winner/sport and pretty much an embarrassment to us Americans. Hopefully one day we will have more intelligent players like the Japanese/Gamerbee who will make us proud of our tournament wins. Let's at least try to keep it classy Marn.
@57
Honestly, there's certain elements in games that appeal to certain cultures.
I'm American, love my country; but there's a lot of evidence that many American gamers (of the competitive sort) value flash and 'domination' over balance and substance. Look at how Modern Warfare 2 is highly regarded competitively when it's obviously broken. Like high level MvC2, matches are essentially a 'race to the bottom', seeing who could out exploit broken elements better.
I'm not trying to stir the pot with MvC2 or MW2 players, I only relaying my observations.
i always liked sf because its player vs player not country vs country. in football, soccer, baseball or other sports a player may switch the team and suddenly his fans hate him. people only chear for the tricot of their hometown..
if an US player beats a japanese one people in the crowd will say: 'we rule, go home' and stuff. do they have the right to say that? in my opinion no, because they could never beat that player.
this is not against usa or anything. i just hate borders.
play for yourself not for your country!
one world ftw ^^
My favorite Marn moment was from EVO 2009 when he beat some scrub on the stream and the guy he beat when to shake his hand and instead of shaking it Marn stood up and did a crotch chop right in the dudes' face. LOL. Marn is the greatest.
@Fermented
Then is this why Americans mostly pick top tier characters?
I read the interview and MAN does that pump me up!!! Not the being better than Japan or any other country, but to get better overall. I'm nowhere near being an expert, but that doesn't mean I can't try.
I know I can get better...I just don't train hard enough. I have to push myself even more!!! **(^_^)**
PSN: BEATLAB52MR808
@ThisIsLogo
You are completely talking out of your ass bro. All top tier? Who? Mike Ross or TwistedJago? They use the top 2 characters, but have they not since vanilla when both were sub-par? Its funny because it is the complete opposite, this SBR was the pinnacle of character diversity.
quit_gettin_mad_at_video_games.jpg
Thats so true. The fact that all the top players can get together in a few hours really helps there game. With the top players in the us being spread across the whole country its hard to get them together unless its evo and thats only once a year.
@72 HukGuay Where did he talk smack? Geez
Moving on...Reading a lot of comments did you guys evening read the article, or just read the one excerpt and saw Marns name and just hating or "trolling whatever yall kids say these days. Just read people. If Catalyst just lied and said John Choi or whoever, then maybe yall would actually read the whole thing then gave your honest opinion on the article itself and not Marn.
The problem with US is that it is only good at games/sports that only it plays. They have this ability to generate so much hype and build such a big scene but against other countries, they never match up in the skills department. You can blame it on the arcade scene in Japan but that scene is both dying and stigmatized. Heck, Taiwan had almost no scene ever and still managed to produce one of the world's best while he's juggling a full time job. People in the US have the freedom to whatever they want whenever they want and spend on it all on trash-talking and whining. Obviously foreign players love the scene here cause it really is magnificent, but it's sad to think that it's all style and no substance.
I'll leave you with this quote.
"Great minds talk abt ideas, mediocre minds talk abt events, small minds talk abt ppl."
Marn manages to surprise Daigo with Dudley because there isn't any good Dudley players in Japan yet, Unfortunately he lost to quite a number of Japanese players during the Godsgarden Invatation like Hiropon, Acqua, Tokido, Mago and etc.
In terms of reaction and adaptation from those players I mentioned was as Impressive as Daigo however what he said was true about them practicing to punish every single tiniest opportunity available but not on Dudley yet. Daigo isn't the best in Japan. I could not Imagine with the release of Arcade Edition the gap will be even bigger then it is now
"Hopes are so fragile"
Smorgasboard #73
"Great minds talk abt ideas, mediocre minds talk abt events, small minds talk abt ppl."
LOVE the quote.
Just because Marn beat Daigo doesn't necessarily mean that we are above Japan's level. Believe it or not Daigo is mid tier in Japan and has yet to win a single tournament there besides team tournies where his teammates carry him.
@76:
You have every right to say that Daigo isn't the best in Japan, but claiming that his team carries him is just ignorant. Daigo is a VERY solid player and is one of the best in the world. Whether you're a fan boy or hater, you should recognize Daigo's abilities. And MaRN was not basing his entire article on his beating Daigo at SB:R. He based it on the general attitude and play styles of each region. You really should read and comprehend before you post.
And @everyone saying MaRN won on a wakeup ultra:
Why're you ridiculing him for doing a wakeup Ultra? Why would MaRN eat the chip damage and potentially lose? Who cares if the ultra was on wakeup or not, Daigo threw a badly spaced fireball and paid the price. I fail to see what MaRN did wrong.
Marn talks so much $hit. You're reactions at SBV was a joke. Act like you've been there! Do you realize that you are now justifying your actions to the world with that stunt you pulled off at SBV. Not only did you over react to a win, and disrespected a player by calling him a "B!TCH", but there were clips of you stressing during the match and acting like your life dependent on this win. You better calm down and realize that it's a competitive game not a life or death match.
The entire EG team needs to take a seminar in showing class & professionalism. Grow the hell up!
Its funny that people get on marn about him talking sh*t when all they do is talk sh*t about him. hypocrits
Gootecks made some good points in his "Crosscounter Guide to Beating Your Friends Book" that are pretty applicable here.
He mentioned trying to grow the Street Fighter community, and competitive scene in such a way as to invite large sponsorships, and funding so that top players might actually take home some big winning prize money.
An admirable goal to be sure. The more sponsors, the greater the intrest, and ultimately the more cool stuff Capcom would find it profitable to release because the market would have grown enough to support it.
Sponsors, likewise are ALWAYS looking for ways to sell their products.
It is in the favor of the players, the broadcasters, and the event holders, to conduct themselves in a proffesional manner. Look at how ESPN, the NFL, or any major sporting event or broadcast is handled. Sure there are always going to be rowdy folks around, and really poor sportsmanship will certainly rear its ugly head from time to time. Those things will never go away. However, these big time broadcasters, Colleges, and Sports leagues have found solid ways of dealing with just such occurences.
My point is that people can just be unpredictably sh$ty no matter how much you wish they wouldnt be. There are tons of great examples out there in proffessional sports that show a varierty of ways that people have become very good at dealing with bad behavior from both rude fans, and players alike.
As this Street Fighter scene grows it would do well to perhaps analyze some of these very large and established buisness models for better broadcasts, more organized events, and dealing with the poor sportsmanship of some players.
I love these broadcasts. I love watching top players compete. This particular match was marred by its ending, and that was dissapointing to see. ALL competitors deserve better treatment than that especially by their peers.
Anyway hopefully the parties involved can come away with some good ideas to make the next events an improvement.
Anyone hating on Marn because of his weight is retarded. That said, neither this blog nor his previous blog were all that good or informative.
FAT F_U_C_K TAUNTING AT THE BEAST! LEARN SOME RESPECT YOU FAT PIECE OF BLOB!!!
Maybe Marn should stop taunting if he wants to get better.