First! Derp

Been waiting for someone to make a weighted tier list like this.

To me it still does'nt matter, I still fight an ever growing army of Ryu's, until someone puts down Daigos Ryu for good, it's never gonna end, nerf that bastard so this list actually means something.

xshonuffx
even when daigo isn't the best anymore, the fact that ryu is the easiest character to start with will never change, hence he's the most used.

Well i quite like tier lists, the're a good discussion starter... i personally would like to see a combination of how these list are formed added to some part of ssfiv's online ranking records... they'd be updated every so often, and you'd even be able to see if owning an xbox or ps3 alters players' choice lol... anyone else?

Acku's looks more accurate than the one released the other day.

Also lol @ #2. So you're saying they should nerf a character because one player plays Ryu really good? Prety retarded argument

Solid list and it's fun to look over, but just because you don't see Sakura, Makoto and other sucky characters very often in tournaments doesn't mean they're not a factor. Honda is the best character by how the majority of tier lists are made because he kicks the crap out of most of the characters he faces.

Weighted lists are fun, but they're no substitute for the real thing.

Ever since Super came out the Tier list to me nether made any sense. Bison is at the top yet I've nether seen a Bison player win a major tournament. That goes for a few other characters too.

I could understand the top of the tier list in Vanilla because Ryu, Sagat and Akuma always use to win Tournaments back then.

I think its just a matter of skill and play style now.

So true.. i bet 70% of all my online ranked matches are against Ryu. Its really starting to bore me.
Ryu has always been easy to use.. But Capcom gave him way too many options in SSFIV.

no matter wht the subject is on this site there is always someone talking about ryu man shut the *&^% up.. and first no i dont main ryu and no he dosent bother me or the amount of people that use him .. as vegabison said he is easy to use so he is widely used character and he is also the face of sf automatically people will pick him up to play with him espicially newcomers to sf,, and shonuff did u see daigo get the smack down with gipies elfuerte people hand daigo a beating reguarlly but nobody mentions it he loses all the time, if daigo changed character and started beating people with gen then a lot of his followers whould go gen too and then guys like u will moan about that character its never ending for guys like u to moan. lets face it daigo is a beast at street fighter always has been and its his talent that makes ryu sooo potent i play thousand of ryu that are extremly poor and very easy and predictable if anything i love playing scrubby daigo wannabes.. in thenext not i think the second tier list is more accurate than tne first but thats just my opinion

both are the same wrong as they are right as the "japanese" one.

@catalyst

could you merge all three list? : D you just give the first a 1.0 second a 0.99 etc and add them together for each list.

that could be the "best" tier list

@ #4

I mained Bison in Vanilla likewise.

I agree with the psycho-crusher in Vanilla. It's uses were extremely limited. I don't mind so much they're changing the command for Ultra 2, He's very well rounded (except for anti-air) and I'm actually kind of glad he's considered one of the best characters.

Also in general, Top Tier does not equal scrub character. If people really want to debate this, I can make a "Noob" tier list.

Reply to #2:

Actually, the fact that Capcom balanced all the characters through Ryu, the only character who is "universally" balanced in comparison to everyone else, will be the #1 tournament-ready character.

So, unless they balance out everyone through Gen, we won't see changes in anyone lol

So both my mains are "basement" tier? Awesome! Right?

*facepalm*
again... there is no need for a tier list!
tier list are overrated!
skills>tier forever!
deal with it eventscrubs!
nuff' said!

A weighted tier list is nice if you care about character rankings, but IMO people should still stop putting so much value in a linear comparison of characters and focus on the matchups.

@#12 zUkUu
Now that's senseless math. There's no meaning in adding up these numbers. Come up with a new formula if you will, but don't just think randomly averaging stuff around will produce better results.

I agree with this tier list. I main Bison (have done since Dash Turbo), and even though I'm not a particularly good player, I have noticed that I seem to simply have an advantage against a lot of characters in SSF4 (whether I use this advantage properly and win is another matter :P). I have no problem admitting this.

I have noticed however that despite this, Bison players don't get many "tier whore" comments directed at them - since unlike the shotos, you don't have to fight him every other match online and so you don't get as fed up with Bison as you might with other characters.

PS - despite this, I dislike the nerfing of Bison's Psycho Punisher by making it a charge motion. I don't mind if it's damage gets nerfed or its frame data gets nerfed; but the motion is the only real reason to use it - Nightmare Booster is better in just about every other way, and so changing U2 to charge means that it won't really get used. Nerfing a move into pointlessness is bad design.

MY FU**ING NAME WAS NOT A THREAT CAPCOM.

thnx a lot now i have to move to Ibuki. i dont want to be labelled as a teir whore (even though ive been playing him since CE). goodbye Bison ;(

@ipoopedmypants

And that's why Bison won Evo this year -_-
Improved Psycho Crusher and Psycho Punisher are the 2 improvements he needed. Scissor kick pressure he had from day 1. 2 improvements since Vanilla and he's a "mindless" character haha.

@2
Ryu will always be played. After all this game is called STREET FIGHTER -_-

Jeez First Sagat, then Ryu, now Bison lol. If people put the same effort into SSF4 as they do into complaining, they might enjoy this game alot more.

@lolento... divide them through 3... I thought that was pretty clear by itself... it seems not : X

e.g: ryu is placed 7, 7 and 11.

would make him 0.93 + 0.93 + 0.89 (or just take the normal palce numbers if you want) 2.75 / 3 = 0.91667 ranks him at 8-9th depending on the other characters values.

with normal rank numbers: 7+7+11=25/3 = 8,333

@15 mashed out charge move o_O?

Woo!! ...not much changed for muh boy Fuerte :P

Ever since Super was about to drop, I've wanted Fuerte to be smack dab in the middle. He's the ultimate guessing character and all about playing the opponent, not unlike Viper, so it's only natural he should have almost all 5-5 matchups.

I hope they nerf Ultra Spark, buff Giga Buster, and maybe buff a normal or two for AE's release. That would make me a happy Fuerte.

the 3rd list seems too inaccurate since it ignores difference in total MU. Just fusing the "official" tier list with the "eventhubs" list result in the following list:

Name Off. Event Merged Place
Bison 2 1 1,5
Guile 3 3 3
Honda 1 6 3,5
Balrog 5 2 3,5
Chun-Li 4 5 4,5
Abel 8 4 6
Cammy 6 9 7,5
Ryu 7 11 9
Rufus 10 8 9
Dhalsim 9 10 9,5
Seth 12 7 9,5
Fei L. 14 12 13
Sagat 11 17 14
Ken 15 14 14,5
Rose 16 13 14,5
Akuma 13 18 15,5
Zangief 18 15 16,5
Adon 20 16 18
Blanka 17 20 18,5
Dee Jay 19 19 19
Ibuki 21 21 21
Vega 22 24 23
Viper 24 23 23,5
Fuerte 25 22 23,5
Cody 23 25 24
Dudley 26 27 26,5
Gouken 27 26 26,5
Juri 28 28 28
Sakura 30 29 29,5
T. Hawk 29 31 30
Guy 31 30 30,5
Gen 32 33 32,5
Hakan 34 32 33
Dan 33 34 33,5
Makoto 35 35 35

the "areas" in which character is placed stays the same (high tier = high tier, bottom = bottom, mid = mid etc) with the exceptin of Fei Long / Sagat (fei moved a group up, or sagat one down, depends on the point of view) and balrog/chun li (same case).

This isnt any better then the last list. And if this list is useing the last tier list to calculate favorable matchups it aint gonna be any better. Bison had a butch of 6s that were bs and ryu had a crap load of 4s that made no sense.

@9

Ryu is beyond easy to use. A monkey can pull off his "advanced" combos/setups and when u break him down and really understand what he has it isnt hard to realize hes the best in the game. I main blanka but the other day i decided to use him and was just amazed at how easy it was to get low jabs into sweep or cross up hurricane super or any other "daigo" combo u can do. ANd then theres the low forward, a move that will beat/trade with just about what ever u want. People will say other wise but my challenge to them is play someone else, then come back after a week and see how easy hes crap is.

So i got bored and decided to make some calculations by myself to see what would happen if you fought each of the top 10 (Eventhubs tier list and most used from GYT) with each character.

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...

According to my calculations if you play Seth you should win EVO2011

here as picture for more overview:

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/d...

Tiers mean nothing yet something. It's very important to know your match-ups, and after reading each list I will continue to play main cammy just because I realized my own potential with her in SFIV. People may play with Top Tier because of their insane recovery, damage, etc but, do you play better with weaker characters yet lose more than you do with a top tier character?

An example would be my Sakura is far greater than my E.honda, though I lose 2/4 games with her I still love to play as her. My answer in this this would be to study matchups and play alot more than usually do and tiers wouldn't be as influential as they are now. What's your answer to Tier Lists?

double post. {this post not this this lol}

@9

i agree

in vanilla i mained ryu because no character really fit my play-style.

when ssf4 came out, and i decided to main ibuki, i was amazed at how easy i had it when i mained ryu. it was a lot harder to do combo's and get life-leads and now i actually have to work for wins =|

anyway... my question is, why did so many people buy super if they were just going to go right back to playing ryu. i know the new stages are pretty but... not worth $40 imo

smh. I've been maining Bison since God knows when, and the only reason he's so good is because CAPCOM DOESN'T LISTEN. All us Bison players wanted was a USABLE psycho crusher. It didn't even have to cross up, and what do they do? They gave us a great ex psycho crusher, all of these tweaked normals, and a godlike ultra. lol. I'm not complaining, but I just wanted to make it clear that it isn't our fault. lol. And btw, why give us a motion ultra just to tease us, only to make it a charge? Man Capcom, you're a mystery to me.

man, charge characters are still top.

@#2 where is this army of ryu's you speak of? i probably play against 2 ryu's out of every 10 matches. Perhaps you have a scrub bp, and are stuck in the baby zone. As for ryu getting nerfed more, why? what does ryu have that is so over powered?

take away the scrub 3 frame invincible srk from ryu ken etc make it like dudlys... lets say with 5 frame start up and only ex srk "viable" as wakeup move. then we'll see how long the ryu-scrub-online-army will prevail.

every time a new tier list gets attention it makes dominated online scrubs w/ Makoto a little sweeter :)

Nobody in the world seems to know about the potential most of the low tier cast have. =/ As a cody player I can tell you that he's only got like 3-5 bad matchups in total. Most of them are 5-5 or in Cody's favour.

Sigh! Guess we'll have to wait then lol.

Beginners b1tching about ryu again. There could be a post on Mortal Kombat and you'd have some gimp crying to nerf him hahaha

Far as I know, Ryu is the best character in the game. These tier lists are trash.
Then again, unless you're bottom tiering, tiers don't really matter in SSF4. This aint SF4.

@#2 Well i know if enough ppl whine capcom will nerf Ryu in fear of losing sales, they'd nerf him to bottom purposely to fill thier money hungry appetite. They're robbing us while we sit in our kitchens, and watch lol. Two yrs back to back games, and me trying to be a good fan (like a dummy) bought the collectors SF4 80 bucks, and got nothing in return then 40 bucks lol. Yea, they're guys of real integrity. (pun highly intended) Then @ that they lie, and create lies, and charge us 4 bucks for costumes. Not individually like every1 would want. Didn't want fuerte, sim etc. I wont be heard your common idiot will post, and say: thats your fault, don't buy the costume, dont play it, all that BS. They cant see the forest from the trees, man i miss when gaming companies were a bit more honest. Yea, ive ranted, idc lol what i say is truth, and whats sad is, were allowing them to F us. We are really in control trust me we need to make all gaming companies dance to our beat. It takes a few to start.

#39

That's just like saying Gief's U1 needs an extra frame after buffer to balance out Guy's ultra...

No more food for trolls :P .

Wtf someone is complaining about 3 invincibility frames from ken and ryu's shoryuken? it was 6 in almost all street fighter games, because you guys cried and moaned they lowered it to 3........so if someone jumps in like a mindless fool, you want it to trade instead of being punished? These trolls are rediculous

the start up needs to be increased... read properly

also. argumenting "it was soo good in the last titles so it should be in this one too" is... well... not a real argument. then sagat should be good in ssf4 because he was in sf4 yes?

these tier lists are trash, i main bison myself he is a character with a lot of flaws. anyone can mash a DP if m.bison is doing some lk pressure. if u know how to do option selects u can own bison easy.

i still think ryu, akuma, balrog, is TOP tier.

m.bison is B tier. as a m.bison player picking m.bison is not EASY MODE, its actually very challenging.

#44: "Posted by TheShotokan on October 14, 2010 at 5:24 p.m. #44

@#2 Well i know if enough ppl whine capcom will nerf Ryu in fear of losing sales, they'd nerf him to bottom purposely to fill thier money hungry appetite. They're robbing us while we sit in our kitchens, and watch lol. Two yrs back to back games, and me trying to be a good fan (like a dummy) bought the collectors SF4 80 bucks, and got nothing in return then 40 bucks lol. Yea, they're guys of real integrity. (pun highly intended) Then @ that they lie, and create lies, and charge us 4 bucks for costumes. Not individually like every1 would want. Didn't want fuerte, sim etc. I wont be heard your common idiot will post, and say: thats your fault, don't buy the costume, dont play it, all that BS. They cant see the forest from the trees, man i miss when gaming companies were a bit more honest. Yea, ive ranted, idc lol what i say is truth, and whats sad is, were allowing them to F us. We are really in control trust me we need to make all gaming companies dance to our beat. It takes a few to start."

I mean this seriously and not to offend: you sound like you are mentally ill here. If you truly believe a company that makes video games is "lying" and "robbing" you, then it is irrational for you to purchase their products, use those products, or register on fan websites that are about the use of said products. You knew exactly what you were buying when you bought it. It's scary how often this has to be said to people: Capcom...doesn't...owe...you...anything. Describing a corporation as "money hungry" is like describing a plant as sunlight-hungry; the purpose of corporations is to make money by selling products to people like you. If you don't enjoy or desire the product the corporation offers, the relationship between you and it can come to an end. The only reason it would not is your mistaken belief that it owes you something.

All other conspiracy theorist BS aside, Ryu will probably never be allowed to be one of the weaker characters because he is a beginner character, the "face" of the game, and Japanese. They've learned their lesson about trying to make someone else the star of an entry in the series with Alex and the failure of Street Fighter III.

spaniard when you consider not most other anti air has that invinciblity you see the issue alittle

Spainard that's what happened to sean they chooes to buff others and majorly nerfed him in third strike

I don't think usage is important in tiers. At least not when we're talking about Street Fighter.

I have too agree with irrenmann. Noone put a gun to your head and told you that you 'must' buy this game!

It's irrelvant talking about Ryu, becaus he's been nerfed again, and people are still going to complain until they remove him from the game. He could be bottom tier, but people will still complain no matter what.

People REALLY shouldn't be putting this much stake in the lists (at least not for a game as balanced as this)...

I guess it just goes to show how stupid some people are - since they won't look at the matchups individually.

wonder what the cheese selection is like because all this whine is starting to get me buzzed...

juri is damn low on both tiers, i hope they buff her on the arcade edition, i dont care playing low tier characters, she is my maind and i will play her anyway, but it would be cool if she had a few more tools, maybe someting to scape from corners or a slight damage buff with the feng shui engine.

Oh...another imbecile list?

@55

I always though people where crying just to cry(like they do with blanka) but seriously man, play ryu and it all makes sense. Just compare him to the other shotos, hes miles better then ken and even though akuma has alot of great offensive options he 1)no easy ways to combo the ultra(i dont remember if 2 does) 2) he pays for his offense with the second lowest stamina in the game. Ryu pays for nothing. All u have to do is nerf his normals, a few frames here and there(and fix the hitbox on his low forward, why is it better then kens and akumas!) and it will even out.

Chickenwing.........Ryu's game has always been about zoning, which they've butchered pretty bad. He can no longer zone people effectively, which is his biggest strength. If you , take away his normals, then you drastically change the dynamic of his game. Instantly he'd be a low tier character, because alot of chacters like abel and such, that's the only way he can effectively go toe to toe with a character like that. I play with Ryu, juri, and mess around with various characters. Regardless of his nerfs, i'll still use ryu, but what you people want is for ryu to be the worst character in this game.

We all know how easy it is to play but this is a tier list. Try winning a tournament with Ryu then come back and tell us how OP he is.

@61

Dude, whats wrong with makeing his normals like ken? I didnt say to drop them all together, i just said to shave frames and touch up a couple of hit boxs. Why should he be able do jab sweep so easily(balrog can do it, but its alot harder to do), or for that matter why should he be able to link all his normals together? They would still be good normals, it just wouldnt be brain dead easy to combo or just beat most of the cast for free. Seriously now, how many characters have a normal move that can constantly trade of beat the low foward, mind u the thing is so fast that u need godlike timeing to hit something that i could just spam like an idiot.

ANd u say he cant zone? cmon now. Im not even gonna explain that one.

Skills > Tier

I will say it again..my girl is not at bottom tier.!

Chickwing......4xjab into crouch LK is a 5 hit combo where the last one connects on a 60th of a frame, how in the world is that easy to do...You want his fireballs gone, his DP is already nerfed pretty badly, and now you want to get rid of his footsies? You'll never be satisfied.

Ill still play Makoto...keep those cheesy high-tier characters coming...win or lose i still have pride that i actually put in work to master a hard to use character...go ahead and play ryu but u will always wonder where ur skills could have done if put into a harder character...not flamin u guys that do just sayin....no sf4 character on this game right now is as fun as her..and also

@66

Yea u kno exactly why she is at bottom tier :P...lets just deal with the facts until the DLC comes out...have fun peeps!

tier list matter? the answer...yes in some part it show the dificult in some matches, well tier list arent perfect but the same people are in the top in all the list that can be wrong.
So tier list dont mean hakan cant beat guile, but is more dificult to beat guile with hakan than beat hakan with guile.
Imo top tiers need minor nerfs or tweaks, no one like that hes main get nerfed but c'mon guys you know they need it to balance even more this game, just people dont get it....

let me see, bison have good speed (one of the fastest), have good damage, almost safe moves, good pokes, so dont say he is in B please, also that U2 must be in first place a charge move, people only want the easy way.... you will say, but will be useles, what about ryu ultra 2? xD its cool and all but no one use that thing, well very very few people and only cuz its cool xD

The way it should be! If you like following the story.

Bison has always been a boss, and really ought to be a beast. Akuma, while originally conceived as a super-boss can get away with being mid tier because of his philosophical "self-nerf", but there ought to be a way to play as shin/ten Akuma. Sagat's a boss too!

Story mode tier list:
1. Shin/Ten Akuma
2. M.Bison
3. Sagat

Well wasn't U2 made for the fireball characters hence the fast motion since you could pull it out at anytime the only real fix he needs it's that head stomp it's so broken. For Ryu U2 you can't combo into it but the trade off is it's the highest damage ultra in the game (retarded I know)

@SpaniardSRK look at Gief's Lariat his best Anti-Air as compared to the DP and then come back to me.

Gief's lariat has always been vulnerable at the head, what's your point?

Sorry forgot to put in terms of trade my mistake. If it trades he still ultras or ex fireball into decent damage gief just a green hand that takes crap damage how's that fair at least remove one of those options.

Gief is a high risk high reward character, your argument is flawed, if gief could land an ultra on a trade he'd be broken.

how is the argument flawed Gief takes forever to get in to begin with against ryu and a simple dp or throw immediately takes him out of his high reward that you say and lets not forget the air hurricane.

So gief spam would spam lariat all day bam land ultra 50 percent health is gone instantly........that's broken your argument is flawed. 2 different characters with completely different play styles. Plus ryu has a very very short window to trade ultra, people hardly ever land it nowadays.....

Oh trust me it still trades and the argument Isn't flawed his Ultra is a grab to begin with not a projectile so how does it land after a trade like mentioned I was using examples of Ryu's trades as compared to Gief who only has one option and the end result is crap damage. Ryu is annoying for the fact he's one of a few who is built for zoning or rushdown most characters don't have that luxury without a huge downside i.e. low health.

His DP should never even trade period IT IS THE KING OF ANTI AIRS.......what street fighter has it ever traded? Just be happy you dont have to play against O sagat, O ken, and N ryu.

@67

Ok, either english isnt ur first language, or ur just dumb. 1) i said jab into sweep, ITS EASY TO DO so dont give me that crap. I never ever use ryu yet i can pick him and get all those combos after the first or second try(if i sat with him for a week i would get them out consistantly). Its mind numbly easy. 2x low strong sweep, Low jab low strong fireball, low jab low fierce dp fadc etc. If ur having a hard time with that then by all means dont play anyone else cause something like guiles 2x low jab low strong flash kick will be impossible for u.

WHen did i say i want his fireball gone. I was makeing a point that if he doesnt have the best move have he has one of the top. So even though sagat/guile or guoken might have a really strong fireball game ryu can STILL go toe to toe in fireball battles. THat would be fine if he didnt have the best dp, some of the best pokes, very good dmg(nuetral jump rh, low fierce fierce dp does above 300 without any meter), insanely easy/multi combos and ultra set ups.

ANd ryus dp was nerfed pretty badly? What was nerfed on it? The lame trade ultra bs? U still have the stupid shortcut system that allows zero execution to give u the best reversal in the game along with one of the biggest reversal windows in any sf game. Mind u that ryu has more then enough anti airs.

Again, anyone saying that ryu is hard to play/win with needs to go right ahead and choose someone else. ANd dont tell me that hes the only one that fights ur style, we have 34 other characters to pick.

@79

I seen it trade in other games so whats ur point? kens was/IS supposed to be better any way. ANd the really king of anti airs is the flash kick(that think never traded in 2s). Ryu was all about the fireball, but now instead of just haveing that he has everything. Like i said a million times to u ryu people, if ryu isnt easy mode then u should easily be able to jump into another character and still be able to do ok. But u wont, cause u wont win without his nonsense.

@78

ALl the ryu people fail to see that hes the only one in the game without any weakness.

You're complaining about shortcuts? I play on stick and hate shortcuts, this argument is done. You're just a bitter scrub.

All the ryu haters fail to see, is that only scrubs complain about Ryu. Never have I heard any top players complain about Ryu. Their word far outweighs yours. Air ryu even said that ryu's been nerfed too much and is considering picking another character as his main because of it.

@spaniard was talking about trade into ultra no need to be a dick about it.

Let's cut out the personal insults people. You can get your point across without resorting to those.

I actually don't mind the concept that Ryu is noobfriendly and a jack of all trades, but atm he not only has tons of tools but his AA is insane. I don't think you should nerf him so he ends up being bottom tier but I think he should have a 4-5 frame start up on all his DPs. It's retarded that Ryu is so much better than ken, the DP master.

@Spaniard
Why would only scrubs complain about Ryu? That statement is as stupid as saying that only scrubs DEFEND ryu. Chill man.

@#24 zUkUu
Your answer just proves my point that you do not know what you're doing. Dividing all numbers by 3 will give you the exact same placement as if you don't divide, it's still nonsense voodoo in an effort to achieve a more magical ranking. Plus you apparently missed the "averaging" bit. Sums are part of any average or weighted average, but as I said, it makes no difference at all if you're making a mystical sum or a mystical average of two lists.

@catylyst well I'm sorry but when you choose to be a sarcastic punk in your response and act like a snob like the other side of the community I'm going to call them out on it plus its more of an attitude use for that word it's not like I said a straight up curse word also that word I used has more impact to this situation.

I tried to clarify the remixed list a bit at the forum http://forums.eventhubs.com/viewtopic...

I like Fenor's list a lot. It's nice and simple.

@Grimmjow316

Wasn't referring to you, btw. It's OK to call them out for that. Sorry, I should have been clearer.

Was talking to SpaniardSRK and Chickenwings. Feel free to continue your discussion, just lay off the insults.

@83

NObody complained about sagat either, but we all know what he was about right?

@91

When its againt ryu theres no geting ur point across. U can throw any fact u want at them and it doesnt matter. But its ok from them to trash me for maining blanka though right? I mean blanka is super safe and his ultra is unblockable right?

Im all for a good debate, but lets get real. To tell me that ryus combos are difficult, or that his dp is nerfed or anything else like that is just retarded.

it's nice to see my work have been posted here :).
i was thinking eventually to redo my work calcolating 73 as a 1/100 just to sort em better.
Let me know what you think

I just created a tier list that I feel best represents which character is best to play at the MOMENT. Using the usage of characters multiplied by the Japanese tiers.

http://img839.imageshack.us/f/dynamic...

@Fenor: your list doesn't punish those that have a 9-1 in the frequent matchups for example which cheats a lot if the char does have 6-4 for the rest. You cant let smaller advantages overrule big disadvantages without punish.

@Frog55jon: what data did you use? I can not find the logic you exhibit there :)

To be perfectly honest with everyone Ryu's DP isn't the best AA. You can't just throw it out like you did in vanilla and if you think you can go to training mode and try it.

Everyone saying Ryu is 'easy' mode go win a tournament with him. Just because his game looks simple doesn't mean it is. He's a good beginner character but when you need to master a character it's hard.

Hence why Daigo is the best and most unique Ryu in the world. And don't give me that, he mashes bull because he did the same thing in sf2 without shortcuts so....

It's true that only people who play online complain about Ryu because of all the tournaments I've been to, nobody has complained about ANY character.

If this was left to the tournament level players there would only be discussion about things that actually need changing, like the fact that Sagat was so strong in vanilla. Online players are the only players who really moan about certain characters, e.g. Ryu is easy mode, Blanka just electricity, Honda just sits on his butt. Even if you DO change Ryu they'll STILL moan.

If you look at the arcade changes to Ryu it's aimed at high level players. His Hurricane Kick escape is gone. This won't matter to online players because they don't even try and keep opponents in the corner so they'll still have something to moan about.

Also asking to make DP 4-5 frames is like making EVERY other reversal 1-2 frames longer in startup. His DP has been the same in like every game so why change it. They won't suddenly take out Guile's flash kick or Dhalsims reach so why change Ryu.

The point is. Nothing in this game is broken. The minor changes happening in the arcade edition is to make the game more balanced. I play Cody and can deal with Shoto characters fine. If you moan about Ryu, you just can't deal with him.

Basic online mentality 'if you can't beat em, say they need to be nerfed'

@96

U bring up tournament play but it still doesnt change the fact that he has no weakness. As a all around character that weakness should be that he is decent at everything but he isnt, hes almost the best at everything.

@97

That's ridiculous. He isn't the best at everything at all.
Sagat, Guile and Dhalsim have better zoning than he does.
Chun Li has a lot better pokes than he has.
Guile and Dhalsim have better AA's than him.

And I could go on. The fact that you said he has no weakness completely contradicts with Dhalsim being a bad matchup for him. If he had no weakness it shouldn't be a bad matchup...

This whole Ryu whine is becoming such a repetitive pattern. Just cause you get smacked around by 2000pp's clowns online who all choose ryu doesnt mean hes overpowered/best in the game/needs to be nerfed.

That fact that there are more ryu players than any other character means it easy for me cause I'm constantly facing him. Learn the matchup then you'll realise that he isnt that great.

p.s. skill > tier

@98

Dude, ryu was one of the only character that could stand up to sagat in sf4, after the nerfs ryu has nothing to worry there.
Guile is a 5, alot of spacing and mind games in this one, his hurricane kick is a gamble but if he predicts a sonic boom right he gets in and gets a knock down seting ryu up for some pressure, again he has what he needs for this(dont act like its honda v guile), and ryu has better aa's, ryu has of course the dp(watch can lead to ultra) and low fierce which are reliable(i have aa'd with low strong, st short, st strong but the two i listed are sure bets, also if u predict right u can jump strong and juggle to ultra), guile has a better low fierce and can aa with some of his other normals like ryu but cmon his flash kick sucks and u know it, cross up hurricane kick that crap all day.

For dhalsim, ryu has solid speed to chase, he has a better fireball(as long as u stand far enough to not get his by the fierce) and u have the pokes to counter hit the arms. Dhalsim is an annoying fight for everybody but ryu has more then enough to make it happen. Its not like blanka v dhalsim where u get hit after ball combo.

Chun is prob the only bad one. I think her st strong might take the low forward(im about to hit training mode and check). ANd with ultra 1 she can deny u the fireball game. But tbh chun can turtle majority of the cast and there aint crap u could do about it. Her pokes are just beyond good.

So out of the characters u picked only one of them could be really bad. THe rest ryu has options to get through them. At worst its a 4.5, ryu doesnt have anything thats just terrible. Nothing like chun li vs balrog, honda vs guile, hakan vs everyone. But on the flip side how many characters does ryu flat out beat? Or better yet out of the top tier/popular tournament character how many bad matchs does he have other then chun?

@acku
I used the http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2010/se... percentages
they seem more credible.

@Lolento

what are you saying? to get an AVERAGE PLACEMENT you just do it this way. All you want is to bitch around... without any argument. it's not "magical" or "made up" it's simple math one should have in the 4th grade.

If we would have 5 lists (which would be great), we would add each characters placement and divide it through 5 = average placement.

so don't pulll some random "blabla" out of your sleeves. just to argue about something that is totally valid.

we only have 2 tier lists for a matter of comparsion. The 3rd has a wrong approach in my view. That's why I only used the two other.

noticed that a lot of people complain on how i did that versione of the list. Just to be on the safe side i'll say that this version must be seen with the original data to have a more complete vision of that all.
Maybe i'll do a versione with more data on it but might became boring to read

@FROG55JON

I explicitly did not use that information as it reflects online usage percentage, not tournament usage percentage. The list is based on high-level players matchups, makes no sense to mix in average level usage stats

@acku

true nice on the dynamic tier list, you beat me to it lol

@acku

I prefer the online percentages as they are my realty and will be most peoples.

No one gives a ***t bout your reality. Tier lists aren't about scrubby players, but about top level game.

why so much hate on ryu? have you fight with guile? hes is far away better than ryu, ryu is powerfull, and have easy set ups, but isnt the best.... ohh and ryu have hard time in tournaments cuz the rest of the cast choiced in tournaments are top tier ( basically the finalist)sooo I think guile is so much bastard (In the way of power)

@xShonuffx:

Looks like someone scrubing and b*t*hing about Ryu's dp and whatnot. Stop trolling and improve your game against Ryu.

Bison is the best in the game, good to see he's at top

and lol at air dropping Ryu because he was nerfed badly that's the stupidest statement I've ever heard tell that to Gen who got raped with the nerf stick.

I've defined as a bad match the ones with less or equal them 4 victories (of ten). With this, you can make a list of the number of bad matches. Used the October 2010 Tier Rankings for Super Street Fighter IV from eventhubs to make this list.

Seth 3
M. Bison 4
Ken 5
Chun-Li 5
Balrog 5
Rose 6
Honda 6
Abel 6
Adon 7
Sagat 7
Akuma 7
Guile 7
Dee Jay 7
Fei L. 7
Ryu 8
Dhalsim 8
Cammy 9
Fuerte 9
Rufus 9
C. Viper 9
Ibuki 9
Blanka 10
Zangief 11
Vega 12
Cody 12
Gouken 14
Dudley 15
Juri 16
T. Hawk 17
Sakura 18
Guy 22
Gen 27
Dan 28
Hakan 30
Makoto 32

Tier lists are good skeleton references for what the game's about but I'm ready as the next low/mid tier player to prove this list as flawed

Bushinryu4Life HA-HA!

@#108

Cause these beginners like to cry and find excuses towards a character they can't beat haha

grimmjow, yebb dropped gen because of his nerfs aswell...Dropping a character is not uncommon.

@115

Nobody droped ryu. So i dont know what ur talking about. U want to see a character get droped like a rock look at sagat. As soon as ssf4 hit the street he was kicked to the curb(i dont know why, hes still good)

dict is the most powerful character AND is easy to play. get over it.

@117

hes so powerful hes dominateing every tournament.

O wait....