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October 2010 tier rankings for Super Street Fighter 4

Posted by Jonathan 'Catalyst' Grey • October 11, 2010 at 6:03 p.m. PDT
October 2010 tier rankings for Super Street Fighter 4 New tier rankings for Super Street Fighter 4 have been posted here on EventHubs.com. The newest lists now have a vertical highlighting feature to make it easier to pinpoint the match ups.

This was translated from a Japanese Wiki, but a few math errors were fixed along the way.

While tier listings are a popular thing, it's always best not to take too much stock in these. Characters move up and down all of the time, and matches change — sometimes on a daily basis.

So while the tiers aren't the final word on anything, some of the information inside is helpful. Very few people would argue that Sagat doesn't have a heavy advantage against Zangief, so the table has some relevancy.

As such, take these tiers as a loose guideline of how the matches stack up, but never as the end all be all of who's good in the game.

Some of the characters have moved up or down a bit since the initial tier rankings were posted back in July 2010, but overall, most of the positions have stayed the same.

Thanks to Stubbs for the heads up.

Comments

RedEther said on October 11, 2010 at 6:09 p.m.

Skill>Tier any day.

#1
Struggs said on October 11, 2010 at 6:09 p.m.

I mostly agree with this list. Honda is dominate against almost all of the low tier characters and he got fat off of them and moved way up the charts, well, way up to first.

Honda disadvantages against a lot of the top seeds though, so it works out overall.

Dhalsim was too low initially and he moved up to where he should be, I bet in large part to YHCMochi's performances at GodsGarden.

Cammy where should be be too, Sako showed how fantastic she is.

#2
WinstonChurchill said on October 11, 2010 at 6:10 p.m.

@1

Well said

#3
OptimusPrimeBot said on October 11, 2010 at 6:11 p.m.

I love how the top 5 are all charge characters.

#4
Flerg said on October 11, 2010 at 6:16 p.m.

They're throwing 7's around in this chart like it doesn't mean anything. A 7/3 matchup is hugely slanted and Super honestly doesn't have as many of those as this list is claiming.

#5
AeriALs said on October 11, 2010 at 6:17 p.m.

K seriously, viper still 24th/35.... that actually annoys me despite tier lists barely holding any merit. Sounds hypocritical but this list does her absolutely no justice lol

#6
zUkUu said on October 11, 2010 at 6:19 p.m.

some seem "off" (for instance viper), but the most seem at the right "area" (not arguin about some places, it's impossible to judge)

#7
AceKillah said on October 11, 2010 at 6:19 p.m.

Honda better that retarded chun??!!?? LOL

#8
Hakansoilbarrel said on October 11, 2010 at 6:25 p.m.

Let me guess - no oil wrestlers made the cut.

*Shakes head*

#9
Toph_Young said on October 11, 2010 at 6:27 p.m.

HONDA PLAYERS GET MAD!

#10
cheameup said on October 11, 2010 at 6:29 p.m.

Looks pretty right to me . Wouldnt have thought Honda has that many 7 match ups his way though .

Bottom teir is sad . All ,well maybe not Dan, are cool characters who deserve better

#11
f1ip said on October 11, 2010 at 6:30 p.m.

why the hell is akuma in the red zone??

#12
darko_p86 said on October 11, 2010 at 6:33 p.m.

i say it mostly depends on the human skill. tiers are like junkfood for noobs who always look for the cheapest spamm moves. people, expect more honda's now that these noobs will think they will win only cuz tiers said so. ha ha poor suckas.

SSF4 world, I will see you again once i get a new PS3.
RIP my old one

#13
Sharpie84 said on October 11, 2010 at 6:34 p.m.

After seeing Mago play against YHC-Mochi in GGO2, I find it hard to believe Fei Long - Dhalsim is 5-5. Mochi had almost no answers for most of Mago's options.

#14
Sakura said on October 11, 2010 at 6:35 p.m.

Looks about right to me...

#15
Struggs said on October 11, 2010 at 6:43 p.m.

You gotta look at the match ups too, not just the placement. Honda has disadvantaged match ups against the top tier characters with fireballs, but equal or advantages against everyone without one.

His HHS combos are devastating and his u2 gives him a lot of options in match ups that he didn't have before and is a big reason why he kicks even more butt against characters without fireballs. Now they have to deal with his torpedo, HHS AND ultra 2. Honda is a handful in the right hands, it's just that a lot of people don't play him... until now.

#16
BlackHart said on October 11, 2010 at 6:48 p.m.

with the unpredictability that is the human mind, you can't really put too much stock into Tier lists.

#17
RisingStar said on October 11, 2010 at 6:50 p.m.

dudley is not that bad, god he is so underated -.-

#18
kirbykirbykirby said on October 11, 2010 at 6:56 p.m.

Ill stick pick juri ;)

#19
kirbykirbykirby said on October 11, 2010 at 7:16 p.m.

I mean still pick juri woops =0

#20
manboy said on October 11, 2010 at 7:17 p.m.

my man honda has come a long way - initially considered one of the worst in vanilla arcade, moved up to mid-tier in the console version, and is now sitting pretty at the top in super. SUMO SMASH SUCKAZ!!!

#21
caruga said on October 11, 2010 at 7:30 p.m.

Why does this tier list have credibility? Just because it's japanese?

#22
AeriALs said on October 11, 2010 at 7:31 p.m.

Neutral jump fierce gives him 6-4 in any match up vs a non fireball character lol. That needs to be changed.

#23
Dan_CiTi said on October 11, 2010 at 7:32 p.m.

Ugh, so much garbage in this. Still playing Juri, obv.

#24
Justinbehungry said on October 11, 2010 at 7:39 p.m.

honda over all.

now just reset sagat and rufus and i'll be so happy.

#25
VegaBisonAbel said on October 11, 2010 at 7:41 p.m.

i cant piano, so I can't use honda and chun...kinda bummy but oh well. These tier lists are so unusual now

#26
chickenwings said on October 11, 2010 at 7:44 p.m.

adon,fei long beats ryu? yea this tier cant be taken seriously. and then they just slip a 6 or 7 for makoto matchup, shes not that bad.
I can see honda doin well versus now fireball fighters but vs akuma's a 5? Or what about abel, honda can press up with hunderhands and abel has no legit reversal to get out, and everytime abel gets in all he needs is a random headbutt and now he gets distance,good dmg and a knock down on abel.
Akuma is another one, he has so many 4s that make no sense. Cmon now, he loses to ryu?
The people on eventhubs could prob put togther a better tier list, but of course since it says japan on it morons here will take it as fact.

#27
griever2000 said on October 11, 2010 at 7:54 p.m.

rose vs guile 6-4 for guile...roflmao

#28
Ksizzle said on October 11, 2010 at 8:03 p.m.

i dont get why juri stays low tier on almost every list. is she really bad or something? she seems good.

#29
Megatonbeef said on October 11, 2010 at 8:03 p.m.

Always nice to read others opinions about matchups especially for ones I don't have any experience on.

#30
Smorgasboard said on October 11, 2010 at 8:10 p.m.

No tier list will ever be fact. These are just the opinion of the Japanese community and so is the tier list you have in your head.

Dan, Makoto and Hakan is really reppin that bottom tier. Rock on!

#31
lynx_ID said on October 11, 2010 at 8:16 p.m.

skill>tier

but you need less skill playng with top tier, so dont say tier dont matter ;)

#32
Ingrid said on October 11, 2010 at 8:20 p.m.

@32
lol yea right even though I use honda more it do take skill to win and also hakan takes a lot more skill to win

#33
DarkDiscyple said on October 11, 2010 at 8:30 p.m.

Its pretty accurate outside of the very bottom...

Hakan is last. No question.

Also, Makoto isn't that bad.

#34
Lolento said on October 11, 2010 at 8:34 p.m.

One of the most entertaining things about tier lists is how so many people simply don't understand its meaning, or how to read it.

"Skill > tier" doesn't even make sense. It's like saying "price > cost/benefit", completely ignoring the fact that a cost-benefit analysis does take price into account and that if you are so worried about price you shouldn't be even reading a cost-benefit analysis in the first place.

#35
WinstonChurchill said on October 11, 2010 at 8:42 p.m.

Meaning of tiers list: A pointless excuse elitist players use for when they lose hahaha

#36
TheShotokan said on October 11, 2010 at 8:47 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#37
lynx_ID said on October 11, 2010 at 9:11 p.m.

still the same nonsense, tier list on your head? hahaha wtf? that was funny, the people who defend top tier is cuz they use him, anyway all know that less skills are requiered with top tiers, sorry noobs ;)

ohh and it seems ryu is truly the most balanced character in the game hahahaha

#38
terror said on October 11, 2010 at 9:18 p.m.

honda vs ibuki 6-4? that's one of my easiest match ups

#39
Nyoronoru said on October 11, 2010 at 9:20 p.m.

5 - 5 Even matchup
6 - 4 Some small problems (general "style" has some dominance)
7 - 3 Uphill battle, tough but winnable
8 - 2 Really bad, relying on some luck factor to win
9 - 1 Next to impossible, relying on some crazy luck
10 - 0 Unwinnable

THAT IS HOW THE RANKINGS WORK.

This tier list is still a little iffy to me though.

#40
ExclusiveOrGate said on October 11, 2010 at 9:33 p.m.

I'm still gonna use Gen 'cause he's so OP

#41
IrPanda said on October 11, 2010 at 9:50 p.m.

So people need to not look at the ranking an look at the match ups before the judge the tier list.... i still disagree with Guile makoto being 7-3 though. Not sure about the Cammy dont general fight good ones so i don't know the match up.

#42
DRain said on October 11, 2010 at 10 p.m.

@14 Mago did really well against Mochi because he had previously played a lot of games against Mochi, and since then practiced a lot against Dhalsim. In their original first-to-ten match, Mago was getting destroyed for a lot of the first half and barely clutched out a good portion of his wins.

#43
Paine said on October 11, 2010 at 10:07 p.m.

Juri main Seth secondary here:

This tier list seems about right. Juri has no match up where she has the upperhand because her moves just don't function like that. Also Makoto is better than Dan and Hakan and should of had atleast a 5-5 against Balrog. Even with my Makoto skills, or lack of them, I still don't feel like I'm down during that match-up. All of the juggles you can do after EX-hayate should be proof of that.

Also I have a small problem where Seth is. He should definitely be below Akuma for sure. I don't see fei having a 4-6 match-up against Seth.

Good list is good >:3

#44
michizzle said on October 11, 2010 at 10:26 p.m.

really good list. lately a lot of really good Ken players are coming up and showing people how good he is. props to momochi, playerjun, ect. for that.

#45
broz0rs said on October 11, 2010 at 11:29 p.m.

most of those 7-3 Honda match-ups are greatly exaggerated.

#46
Batsu said on October 11, 2010 at 11:38 p.m.

Although I wouldn't bet everything on a tier list, these stats and numbers are excellent for a game with 35 characters. The most balanced 2D fighter of this console generation. The HIGHEST disadvantage is a 7? Damn good!

#47
chickenwings said on October 11, 2010 at 11:53 p.m.

@45

dude hakan v balrog is not a 5. Balrog can lock down hakan and not let him get the oil goin. Hakan might have some command normals to eat up the random rush punchs but balrog has more then good enough normals to counter them. Its a 5 5 maybe if hakan is oiled but without it balrog can lock him in a corner and destroy him with pressure(the same way bison can).

#48
LiangHuBBB said on October 11, 2010 at 11:55 p.m.

Lol @ Guile 6/4 vs Ryu,Rufus,Balrog,Rose and Cammy.

#49
MikeDanger said on October 11, 2010 at 11:59 p.m.

Vega still rules. and there are no 7-3's on this game actually. this game is pretty balanced, they're more 6.5/3.5 but they simplified it to 7/3. I wish Hakan was better though, he really is helluva fun.:P

#50
chickenwings said on October 12, 2010 at 12:13 a.m.

Every time i look at this list i just cant stop laughing.

Blanka does NOT beat chun, her standing strong beats everything he does(he loses to most of her normals actually) and im pretty sure she has more then enough to keep out rufus aswell(again that standing strong).

guile loseing to abel? cmon now, thats been a 5 or in favor of abel since the begining, that match barely changed and if it did it would push into guiles favor since he got more improvements then abel.

And bison has way to many 6s. Cammy is a 5 at worst(with her option this should be in her favor) and how the hell does bison beat ryu but goes even with ryus watered down buddy ken? Akumas another, Bison cant lock him down(unless hes an idiot akuma) and if akuma can get the vortex goin bison WONT escape(teleport doesnt do anything here).

The more i look the more i think this was done by a bunch of 4th graders. What happen to the real tier lists? Instead of gootecks doin those lame cross counter shows he should get the community together and get a legit tier list goin.

#51
irrenmann said on October 12, 2010 at 12:26 a.m.

As a huge Honda fan, I too must regrettably laugh out loud at this.

#52
Cascadian1106 said on October 12, 2010 at 12:34 a.m.

@52 - I agree about your Chun point vs Blanka. Threat of U1 alone stops him from spamming rolls even EX ones. The other thing I can't agree with on this list is the now 6-4 match-up between Chun and Ken in favor Ken! Ever since Vanilla, it was always 6-4 in Chun's favor. Now with U2, it should have actually been 7-3 in Chun's favor. Ken doesn't have anything in his arsenal to scare off Chun and Chun shuts down his close range game anyway with her more superior pokes, better dashes and variety on her mixups. Honda vs Chun being 6-4 in Chun's favor is laughable. It's sti;; 7-3 in Chun's favor unless Chun's anti-air normals suddenly lose their priority when he jumps in. The previous list made much more sense with Chun being on top. She beats every other top tier character cleanly.

#53
chickenwings said on October 12, 2010 at 12:43 a.m.

@54

Like what. Guile can play the same type of game chun can(the difference being that chun has better pokes and faster foot speed and guile has alot better projectile and more health) and according to this list she beats abel, so why wouldnt guile?. at worst its a 5.

ANd bison, cmon now. Cammy beats him, and ryu either wins or goes even(if ken goes even ryu HAS to go even). I could go down the last and alot of those 6 arent true.

#54
Super_Shoto_Fighter_4 said on October 12, 2010 at 12:59 a.m.

@52
1.Bison's wake up options have invincibility. Vortex fireballs will get absorbed by EX Pycho Crusher. He doesn't need the teleport on wake up.

2.Bison doesn't need to lock Akuma down, just poke/punish. Akuma has to lock Bison down which is very differcult.

3.Akuma can't teleport when Bison has U2.

@54
Ken vs Chun - I always felt it was in Chun's favor. Ken doesn't have many options to get in apart from the obvious. Chun can be hard for Ken to cross up if you know her tricks.

#55
IrPanda said on October 12, 2010 at 1:05 a.m.

@Paine
Makoto Balrog.
hmm
I used to think it was 7 now not so much. But its definitely in his advantage. I how ever had never had any real difficulty with going against guiles.

#56
Felecorr said on October 12, 2010 at 1:09 a.m.

First poster wins thread.
Skill > Tiers,

#57
chickenwings said on October 12, 2010 at 1:09 a.m.

@58

They have invic frames but it isnt safe. U can ex pyscho out and a good akuma will demon right behind it, if ur in the air i get some speration but akuma should be in the air seting up another air fireball right as u recover(when i fight this match with akuma thats what i do). Ex stomp dr are better excape options but akuma can hit those with the demon flip if u time it wrong and if u whiff the stomp u WILL eat a combo. This is a 5, bison has the pokes but akuma has the offensive tools to give him problems.

#58
Cascadian1106 said on October 12, 2010 at 1:13 a.m.

I even forgot to ask why the Guile/Chun match-up is a 5-5 when it should be 6-4 again in Chun's favor. Faster SBs still don't work well against Chun who is definitely much faster, has better dashes and overall better normals than Guile. Either ultra works extremely well against him too. U1 to go through SBs and even Guile's U2 at mid/close range and U2 to further rape Guile in close range. The only way Guile can even manage to put up a fight against Chun is if he can keep her at bay until time time runs out. Otherwise, once Chun gets a life lead or gets in at least sweep distance range, then Guile's screwed big time! I haven't even mentioned how quickly Guile gets stunned.

#59
Saikobooru said on October 12, 2010 at 1:19 a.m.

Now I can legitimately rage on Honda players for being tier whores!
Thanks Japan! :D

#60
chickenwings said on October 12, 2010 at 1:27 a.m.

@56

cammy v bison

Dont forget that cammy has a great pressure game and the fact that she can just fadc a cannon spike to stop ur slow down/stop bisons pressure gives her a safe way out. On the other hand bison doesnt have many options once she gets in with her cannon strike pressure(during this time she is building crazy meter and will no doubt hold some of that meter to stop bisons pressure). ALso she controls the air with a good air throw and the cannon spike. Bison is has stronger pokes but cammys pokes are still pretty solid. THis is a 5 at best. Cammy just needs to rush down hard and always hold on to 2 bars incase she gets in trouble.

#61
TheOneandOnlyone said on October 12, 2010 at 1:29 a.m.

I just got though watch one the best Guy player against Honda, and that match is not 7-3 more like 9-1 i wish i can link. The vid but not good at that man it was hard to watch that match up hopeing i could learn something from it, but to no aveil lol.

#62
Sirius said on October 12, 2010 at 1:36 a.m.

Stupid tier list, as usual

#63
popscythe said on October 12, 2010 at 1:39 a.m.

am I the only one who feels like the jap tier lists are always "we know a guy who plays this character and he's better than we personally are so that character is top tier"

#64
chickenwings said on October 12, 2010 at 1:43 a.m.

@65 i would like to see that fight. I figured his that jumping elbow guy had would beat out alot of hondas stuff, guess i was wrong.

#65
Grimmjow316 said on October 12, 2010 at 1:58 a.m.

I call BS on the 6-4 against Bison and Balrog, Bison standing HK alone can keep Gief out most of the match plus teleport makes the cross-up game hard. Also smart Balrog's will turtle and wait for you to try and get in and u eat alot of damage with his bnb. Gief needs a cancellable running bear grab to help a bit.

Also Iol at the 4=6 Ryu match up what a load.

#66
ubervillain said on October 12, 2010 at 1:58 a.m.

Balrog vs Sagat, Ryu, and Rufus should be 5-5. Jokes.

Who cares anyway, just another tier list.

#67
Grimmjow316 said on October 12, 2010 at 2 a.m.

Damn my last post is sad ment lol what a fail and forgot to put Gief as the one I'm talking about to begin that horrendous comment.

#68
chickenwings said on October 12, 2010 at 2:20 a.m.

@69

That isnt true. On gief beats the round house(or trades) with jumping fierce or jumping forward(i think its forward, its the move where gief throws a downward kick in the air). Also gief can nuetral jump fierce(the headbutt) and hit/trade with dr's/headstomps putin alot of dizzy on bison. And the teleports will get u out of trouble but bring u closer to the corner, where gief wants u(one wrong teleport and u will eat a green hand) The lariat nerf helps bison but this is still a loseing battle.

#69
kingofthesharks said on October 12, 2010 at 2:24 a.m.

put zangief on a pad and he goes up 17 positions! I know this from experience! lol

#70
Grimmjow316 said on October 12, 2010 at 2:37 a.m.

But if this list is "top play" supposedly then you shouldn't be making bad teleports in the first place, also your talking about the jumping medium kick yes it trades but they can bait it for Psycho Crusher. You can't really predict the Head stomp/DR all the time because they are either going for chip or meter building. Plus don't forget back dashing through the green hands biggest BS ever that and even if it hits and your going for 360 regular throws tend to get you before you even execute it trust me I've gotten this a lot.

#71
tortoos said on October 12, 2010 at 3:09 a.m.

I don't play honda at all, yet my personal view is he isn't the best overall character in the game. I have a friend who plays a very good honda and I can beat him with my very lousy makoto. Where when I'm fighting a very good balrog in most cases I'll be low jabbed and headbutted out of all of my options and moves. I still say the best characters are ryu/balrog/akuma no matter what this list says. Guile is very high on the list though so That's correct. Dudley isn't as bad as they say he is, He's definitely better than at least fuerte. He and makoto need some serious buffs to be even close to how great they were in 3s though. Like pretty much complete overhauls. They're too slow and dudley is missing so many of his bread and butter combos it's ridiculous.

#72
BADerRules said on October 12, 2010 at 5:37 a.m.

(This user was banned.)

#73
JMunkholm said on October 12, 2010 at 5:51 a.m.

They sure love the 7-3 matchups

IPW tier list is way better

#74
WinstonChurchill said on October 12, 2010 at 6:03 a.m.

@#77

Are you one of those that keeps crying about Ryu?

#75
jhayze said on October 12, 2010 at 6:07 a.m.

tier list are overrated!
@1st post: skills>tier "agreed!"
and for those people who disagree here's an example...
the godsgarden online tourney, it doesn't take character tier list on the game but player skills. daigo and mago said it themselves "its player skills that brings out the best of the character!"

#76
WinstonChurchill said on October 12, 2010 at 6:19 a.m.

@#80

Agreed

#77
jhayze said on October 12, 2010 at 6:31 a.m.

@#81: thanx dude!

and here's another example:
http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2010/oc...

read post #5, momochi rate the matchup against the player not through the character and he rate it by confidence, and i would rather say or translate that he meant about his confidence is through his skills that if he can win against them with his current knowledge and skills!

#78
Nep said on October 12, 2010 at 6:51 a.m.

Guile is 6-4 Rose? That pretty much sums up how bad this tier list is right there.

#79
Sparxx01 said on October 12, 2010 at 7:12 a.m.

WHOA whoa whoa hold up..can someone explain to me why a considerable number of people are saying Gen is better than Guile?? i must be missing something somewhere

need i mention how hard gen is to master as opposed to guile?

wait i dont even believe i'm having to explain this...pick up gen for a month..then pick up guile for a month..if you find gen easier to use then ill eat my dog's doo doo butter.
for real

#80
SquallSaga said on October 12, 2010 at 7:23 a.m.

Hum, apparently nobody cares for Gouken... I've hoped for him to get buffs, but he still have a lot of bad match up, and his diving kick is not what it used to be I feel.

#81
Nelaelu said on October 12, 2010 at 7:32 a.m.

Ken has found Chun Li's vulnerable spot! haha...

#82
TrulyVU said on October 12, 2010 at 7:52 a.m.

Anyone else notice that SSF4 has transitioned into a more defensive game? Whatever happened to Capcom wanting to make a "heavy offensive game" lol.

As for the tier listing, it does look pretty correct. Everyone will disagree with a match up here or there, but the just of it seems to be pretty right. For those that think this tier list is just a bunch of bs and that you know better; think about it this way: Who knows more about SSF4, the professionals who are playing it to MAKE money or you, just some random guy that has power to post on eventhubs.

#83
benjee said on October 12, 2010 at 8:06 a.m.

Dictator is even stronger than Honda since he is way easier to play.

#84
Hrm said on October 12, 2010 at 8:34 a.m.

Makoto still bottom, huh?
I dunno, man. I'm not going to try to say that she's awesome or anything, but based on what I've seen from her with higher level Makoto players, I'd think she's at least low-mid.

#85
IrPanda said on October 12, 2010 at 8:46 a.m.

@HRm
She is bottom because of her match ups not how good she is.
She as very few even match up no positive 1's ( although i think sim is 1 but not by much) and a lot of bad match ups.

Tier list doesn't reflect how "good" a character is. It just reflects how there match up add up in the game. Same goes for DeeJay

#86
gaffel123 said on October 12, 2010 at 8:55 a.m.

hmm it seems pretty good tbh but honda is def 7-3 disadvantege against guile, chun and not 6-4 and viper should go up a bit. C'mon vryu go to more tournaments and show why makoto isn't THAT bad!

#87
Makoto_is_sexy said on October 12, 2010 at 8:56 a.m.

honestly i understand where all you guys are coming from...there should really be two types of tier list..
ONe for top player...then ones for casual player
and yes i know it means two player of the same skill but picture this...

if me and my friend both equally suck he picks viper and i pick ken cmon guys you know those random SRKs will eat his as5

#88
Shep131 said on October 12, 2010 at 10:52 a.m.

Does anybody ever take into account that Hakan in the right hands is pure bastard? Some-one should tell the tier list..

#89
Struggs said on October 12, 2010 at 11:06 a.m.

If you think Ken is just a "watered down Ryu" you have no idea how to play Ken.

#90
Nukka said on October 12, 2010 at 11:41 a.m.

Ken moving on up, just as expected. While sometimes it pisses me off playing with Guy cause of his matchups, I truly don't believe he should be at the bottom.

#91
Makoto_is_sexy said on October 12, 2010 at 11:58 a.m.

who said ken was a watered down ryu???
i simply ment you cant play mind games with a random noob in ssf4.. in my experience...
alot of time when i play ken online i get mad because some noob mash srk on everything so im stuck with simple combos..i dont wanna get DPed for a hard link i missed...or i gotta wait for that whiffed golden uppercut...and sometimes there still mashing and i get hit with a ex DP because of the invicible frames...
im just saying tiers are for top players...casuals should go by something different

#92
PierceHinchon said on October 12, 2010 at 12:22 p.m.

No one seems to give a crap about Gouken, I think it's pretty accurate....I don't feel any advantage against Dhalsim though, if anything a disadvantage (Could be my lack of Dhalsim fights) I'm disappointed with how terrible most of Goukens match ups are, I'm not crap at the game, but anyone with a decent Cammy can take me down no problem :P

#93
HKsupastar said on October 12, 2010 at 12:24 p.m.

As an above average Honda player and a Honda main since 1993 SFII, I must say that Honda being top tier is kinda B.S. Yes he is definitely better in SSF4 versus Vanilla, but he is not the best character tier wise.

To be honest and most good Hondas would probably agree with me, the hardest matchups (and should be 4-6 and 3-7s) are:

Chun Li, Seth, Dhalsim, Ken, M. Bison, "Vortex" Ibukis, Mixup El Fuertes, Mixup Makotos, and even good Guys.

For me personally, I can handle top tiers of any other characters especially Guile and shotos with ease.

And with SSF4, Sagat is a joke to me. It is definitely more like 6-4 Honda.

Just my two cents coming from a Honda main. I think he should be tiered below Balrog, IMHO.

#94
Makoto_is_sexy said on October 12, 2010 at 12:34 p.m.

no to be a dick but playing honda in any game but sf4 is irrelevant

#95
jhayze said on October 12, 2010 at 12:36 p.m.

i just destroyed 3 rank A honda players online with my rank D seth i won 3/5 sets

#96
Nanaya said on October 12, 2010 at 12:44 p.m.

The list seems pretty accurate. The only thing worth debating is the top 4 which seem to change monthly. I still think Chun is the best because she is armed with the best versatility over the other three characters.

But what it comes down two is player skill. Tier lists are basically match up charts which no one seems to understand. Since tiers are formed based on how many positive match ups.

And Makoto still sucks. Smart players will keep her away like their suppose to since she has bad-to-ok everything. She doesn't have anything great, let alone decent.

#97
manboy said on October 12, 2010 at 12:49 p.m.

@100 i agree that chun li, seth, dhalsim and dictator are tough match ups for honda, but ibuki, fuerte, makoto and guy? no freaking way - ex headbutt destroys any character that has to rely on offense. i've lost to like 2 out of 100 el fuertes as honda and i'm not even that good. ken can be tough, but usually isn't because most people who use him online are trash.

#98
x_Who_Is_Alpha said on October 12, 2010 at 1 p.m.

Do any of you guys actually know how to read a tier list? if you did then you'd know that the only reason Honda is number 1 is because he dominates the lower tiers. He's not better than Bison, Guile, and Chun-Li. The way the numbers add up is why he's at the top spot, damn people don't complain about something you don't understand.

#99
x_Who_Is_Alpha said on October 12, 2010 at 1:01 p.m.

Also here's the numbers for the top 5 characters as if all the C characters had been taken out of the equation, im pretty sure you will notice the change.

Guile: 114
Chun Li: 113
Bison: 111
Balrog: 109
E. Honda: 108

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