New tier rankings for Super Street Fighter 4 have been posted here on EventHubs.com. The newest lists now have a vertical highlighting feature to make it easier to pinpoint the match ups.
I mostly agree with this list. Honda is dominate against almost all of the low tier characters and he got fat off of them and moved way up the charts, well, way up to first.
Honda disadvantages against a lot of the top seeds though, so it works out overall.
Dhalsim was too low initially and he moved up to where he should be, I bet in large part to YHCMochi's performances at GodsGarden.
Cammy where should be be too, Sako showed how fantastic she is.
I love how the top 5 are all charge characters.
Let me guess - no oil wrestlers made the cut.
*Shakes head*
i say it mostly depends on the human skill. tiers are like junkfood for noobs who always look for the cheapest spamm moves. people, expect more honda's now that these noobs will think they will win only cuz tiers said so. ha ha poor suckas.
SSF4 world, I will see you again once i get a new PS3.
RIP my old one
You gotta look at the match ups too, not just the placement. Honda has disadvantaged match ups against the top tier characters with fireballs, but equal or advantages against everyone without one.
His HHS combos are devastating and his u2 gives him a lot of options in match ups that he didn't have before and is a big reason why he kicks even more butt against characters without fireballs. Now they have to deal with his torpedo, HHS AND ultra 2. Honda is a handful in the right hands, it's just that a lot of people don't play him... until now.
honda over all.
now just reset sagat and rufus and i'll be so happy.
i cant piano, so I can't use honda and chun...kinda bummy but oh well. These tier lists are so unusual now
adon,fei long beats ryu? yea this tier cant be taken seriously. and then they just slip a 6 or 7 for makoto matchup, shes not that bad.
I can see honda doin well versus now fireball fighters but vs akuma's a 5? Or what about abel, honda can press up with hunderhands and abel has no legit reversal to get out, and everytime abel gets in all he needs is a random headbutt and now he gets distance,good dmg and a knock down on abel.
Akuma is another one, he has so many 4s that make no sense. Cmon now, he loses to ryu?
The people on eventhubs could prob put togther a better tier list, but of course since it says japan on it morons here will take it as fact.
Always nice to read others opinions about matchups especially for ones I don't have any experience on.
No tier list will ever be fact. These are just the opinion of the Japanese community and so is the tier list you have in your head.
Dan, Makoto and Hakan is really reppin that bottom tier. Rock on!
Its pretty accurate outside of the very bottom...
Hakan is last. No question.
Also, Makoto isn't that bad.
One of the most entertaining things about tier lists is how so many people simply don't understand its meaning, or how to read it.
"Skill > tier" doesn't even make sense. It's like saying "price > cost/benefit", completely ignoring the fact that a cost-benefit analysis does take price into account and that if you are so worried about price you shouldn't be even reading a cost-benefit analysis in the first place.
Meaning of tiers list: A pointless excuse elitist players use for when they lose hahaha
Its gotten to the point where tier list aren't even in the slightest bit relevant anymore. Win, or lose the choice is mine, tenacious resolve, hardwork, and practice are all that matters to me.
still the same nonsense, tier list on your head? hahaha wtf? that was funny, the people who defend top tier is cuz they use him, anyway all know that less skills are requiered with top tiers, sorry noobs ;)
ohh and it seems ryu is truly the most balanced character in the game hahahaha
5 - 5 Even matchup
6 - 4 Some small problems (general "style" has some dominance)
7 - 3 Uphill battle, tough but winnable
8 - 2 Really bad, relying on some luck factor to win
9 - 1 Next to impossible, relying on some crazy luck
10 - 0 Unwinnable
THAT IS HOW THE RANKINGS WORK.
This tier list is still a little iffy to me though.
@14 Mago did really well against Mochi because he had previously played a lot of games against Mochi, and since then practiced a lot against Dhalsim. In their original first-to-ten match, Mago was getting destroyed for a lot of the first half and barely clutched out a good portion of his wins.
Juri main Seth secondary here:
This tier list seems about right. Juri has no match up where she has the upperhand because her moves just don't function like that. Also Makoto is better than Dan and Hakan and should of had atleast a 5-5 against Balrog. Even with my Makoto skills, or lack of them, I still don't feel like I'm down during that match-up. All of the juggles you can do after EX-hayate should be proof of that.
Also I have a small problem where Seth is. He should definitely be below Akuma for sure. I don't see fei having a 4-6 match-up against Seth.
Good list is good >:3
@45
dude hakan v balrog is not a 5. Balrog can lock down hakan and not let him get the oil goin. Hakan might have some command normals to eat up the random rush punchs but balrog has more then good enough normals to counter them. Its a 5 5 maybe if hakan is oiled but without it balrog can lock him in a corner and destroy him with pressure(the same way bison can).
Lol @ Guile 6/4 vs Ryu,Rufus,Balrog,Rose and Cammy.
Vega still rules. and there are no 7-3's on this game actually. this game is pretty balanced, they're more 6.5/3.5 but they simplified it to 7/3. I wish Hakan was better though, he really is helluva fun.:P
Every time i look at this list i just cant stop laughing.
Blanka does NOT beat chun, her standing strong beats everything he does(he loses to most of her normals actually) and im pretty sure she has more then enough to keep out rufus aswell(again that standing strong).
guile loseing to abel? cmon now, thats been a 5 or in favor of abel since the begining, that match barely changed and if it did it would push into guiles favor since he got more improvements then abel.
And bison has way to many 6s. Cammy is a 5 at worst(with her option this should be in her favor) and how the hell does bison beat ryu but goes even with ryus watered down buddy ken? Akumas another, Bison cant lock him down(unless hes an idiot akuma) and if akuma can get the vortex goin bison WONT escape(teleport doesnt do anything here).
The more i look the more i think this was done by a bunch of 4th graders. What happen to the real tier lists? Instead of gootecks doin those lame cross counter shows he should get the community together and get a legit tier list goin.
@52 - I agree about your Chun point vs Blanka. Threat of U1 alone stops him from spamming rolls even EX ones. The other thing I can't agree with on this list is the now 6-4 match-up between Chun and Ken in favor Ken! Ever since Vanilla, it was always 6-4 in Chun's favor. Now with U2, it should have actually been 7-3 in Chun's favor. Ken doesn't have anything in his arsenal to scare off Chun and Chun shuts down his close range game anyway with her more superior pokes, better dashes and variety on her mixups. Honda vs Chun being 6-4 in Chun's favor is laughable. It's sti;; 7-3 in Chun's favor unless Chun's anti-air normals suddenly lose their priority when he jumps in. The previous list made much more sense with Chun being on top. She beats every other top tier character cleanly.
@54
Like what. Guile can play the same type of game chun can(the difference being that chun has better pokes and faster foot speed and guile has alot better projectile and more health) and according to this list she beats abel, so why wouldnt guile?. at worst its a 5.
ANd bison, cmon now. Cammy beats him, and ryu either wins or goes even(if ken goes even ryu HAS to go even). I could go down the last and alot of those 6 arent true.
@52
1.Bison's wake up options have invincibility. Vortex fireballs will get absorbed by EX Pycho Crusher. He doesn't need the teleport on wake up.
2.Bison doesn't need to lock Akuma down, just poke/punish. Akuma has to lock Bison down which is very differcult.
3.Akuma can't teleport when Bison has U2.
@54
Ken vs Chun - I always felt it was in Chun's favor. Ken doesn't have many options to get in apart from the obvious. Chun can be hard for Ken to cross up if you know her tricks.
@58
They have invic frames but it isnt safe. U can ex pyscho out and a good akuma will demon right behind it, if ur in the air i get some speration but akuma should be in the air seting up another air fireball right as u recover(when i fight this match with akuma thats what i do). Ex stomp dr are better excape options but akuma can hit those with the demon flip if u time it wrong and if u whiff the stomp u WILL eat a combo. This is a 5, bison has the pokes but akuma has the offensive tools to give him problems.
I even forgot to ask why the Guile/Chun match-up is a 5-5 when it should be 6-4 again in Chun's favor. Faster SBs still don't work well against Chun who is definitely much faster, has better dashes and overall better normals than Guile. Either ultra works extremely well against him too. U1 to go through SBs and even Guile's U2 at mid/close range and U2 to further rape Guile in close range. The only way Guile can even manage to put up a fight against Chun is if he can keep her at bay until time time runs out. Otherwise, once Chun gets a life lead or gets in at least sweep distance range, then Guile's screwed big time! I haven't even mentioned how quickly Guile gets stunned.
Now I can legitimately rage on Honda players for being tier whores!
Thanks Japan! :D
@56
cammy v bison
Dont forget that cammy has a great pressure game and the fact that she can just fadc a cannon spike to stop ur slow down/stop bisons pressure gives her a safe way out. On the other hand bison doesnt have many options once she gets in with her cannon strike pressure(during this time she is building crazy meter and will no doubt hold some of that meter to stop bisons pressure). ALso she controls the air with a good air throw and the cannon spike. Bison is has stronger pokes but cammys pokes are still pretty solid. THis is a 5 at best. Cammy just needs to rush down hard and always hold on to 2 bars incase she gets in trouble.
I just got though watch one the best Guy player against Honda, and that match is not 7-3 more like 9-1 i wish i can link. The vid but not good at that man it was hard to watch that match up hopeing i could learn something from it, but to no aveil lol.
@65 i would like to see that fight. I figured his that jumping elbow guy had would beat out alot of hondas stuff, guess i was wrong.
I call BS on the 6-4 against Bison and Balrog, Bison standing HK alone can keep Gief out most of the match plus teleport makes the cross-up game hard. Also smart Balrog's will turtle and wait for you to try and get in and u eat alot of damage with his bnb. Gief needs a cancellable running bear grab to help a bit.
Also Iol at the 4=6 Ryu match up what a load.
Balrog vs Sagat, Ryu, and Rufus should be 5-5. Jokes.
Who cares anyway, just another tier list.
Damn my last post is sad ment lol what a fail and forgot to put Gief as the one I'm talking about to begin that horrendous comment.
@69
That isnt true. On gief beats the round house(or trades) with jumping fierce or jumping forward(i think its forward, its the move where gief throws a downward kick in the air). Also gief can nuetral jump fierce(the headbutt) and hit/trade with dr's/headstomps putin alot of dizzy on bison. And the teleports will get u out of trouble but bring u closer to the corner, where gief wants u(one wrong teleport and u will eat a green hand) The lariat nerf helps bison but this is still a loseing battle.
put zangief on a pad and he goes up 17 positions! I know this from experience! lol
But if this list is "top play" supposedly then you shouldn't be making bad teleports in the first place, also your talking about the jumping medium kick yes it trades but they can bait it for Psycho Crusher. You can't really predict the Head stomp/DR all the time because they are either going for chip or meter building. Plus don't forget back dashing through the green hands biggest BS ever that and even if it hits and your going for 360 regular throws tend to get you before you even execute it trust me I've gotten this a lot.
I don't play honda at all, yet my personal view is he isn't the best overall character in the game. I have a friend who plays a very good honda and I can beat him with my very lousy makoto. Where when I'm fighting a very good balrog in most cases I'll be low jabbed and headbutted out of all of my options and moves. I still say the best characters are ryu/balrog/akuma no matter what this list says. Guile is very high on the list though so That's correct. Dudley isn't as bad as they say he is, He's definitely better than at least fuerte. He and makoto need some serious buffs to be even close to how great they were in 3s though. Like pretty much complete overhauls. They're too slow and dudley is missing so many of his bread and butter combos it's ridiculous.
@#77
Are you one of those that keeps crying about Ryu?
tier list are overrated!
@1st post: skills>tier "agreed!"
and for those people who disagree here's an example...
the godsgarden online tourney, it doesn't take character tier list on the game but player skills. daigo and mago said it themselves "its player skills that brings out the best of the character!"
@#81: thanx dude!
and here's another example:
http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2010/oc...
read post #5, momochi rate the matchup against the player not through the character and he rate it by confidence, and i would rather say or translate that he meant about his confidence is through his skills that if he can win against them with his current knowledge and skills!
WHOA whoa whoa hold up..can someone explain to me why a considerable number of people are saying Gen is better than Guile?? i must be missing something somewhere
need i mention how hard gen is to master as opposed to guile?
wait i dont even believe i'm having to explain this...pick up gen for a month..then pick up guile for a month..if you find gen easier to use then ill eat my dog's doo doo butter.
for real
Hum, apparently nobody cares for Gouken... I've hoped for him to get buffs, but he still have a lot of bad match up, and his diving kick is not what it used to be I feel.
Anyone else notice that SSF4 has transitioned into a more defensive game? Whatever happened to Capcom wanting to make a "heavy offensive game" lol.
As for the tier listing, it does look pretty correct. Everyone will disagree with a match up here or there, but the just of it seems to be pretty right. For those that think this tier list is just a bunch of bs and that you know better; think about it this way: Who knows more about SSF4, the professionals who are playing it to MAKE money or you, just some random guy that has power to post on eventhubs.
@HRm
She is bottom because of her match ups not how good she is.
She as very few even match up no positive 1's ( although i think sim is 1 but not by much) and a lot of bad match ups.
Tier list doesn't reflect how "good" a character is. It just reflects how there match up add up in the game. Same goes for DeeJay
honestly i understand where all you guys are coming from...there should really be two types of tier list..
ONe for top player...then ones for casual player
and yes i know it means two player of the same skill but picture this...
if me and my friend both equally suck he picks viper and i pick ken cmon guys you know those random SRKs will eat his as5
who said ken was a watered down ryu???
i simply ment you cant play mind games with a random noob in ssf4.. in my experience...
alot of time when i play ken online i get mad because some noob mash srk on everything so im stuck with simple combos..i dont wanna get DPed for a hard link i missed...or i gotta wait for that whiffed golden uppercut...and sometimes there still mashing and i get hit with a ex DP because of the invicible frames...
im just saying tiers are for top players...casuals should go by something different
No one seems to give a crap about Gouken, I think it's pretty accurate....I don't feel any advantage against Dhalsim though, if anything a disadvantage (Could be my lack of Dhalsim fights) I'm disappointed with how terrible most of Goukens match ups are, I'm not crap at the game, but anyone with a decent Cammy can take me down no problem :P
As an above average Honda player and a Honda main since 1993 SFII, I must say that Honda being top tier is kinda B.S. Yes he is definitely better in SSF4 versus Vanilla, but he is not the best character tier wise.
To be honest and most good Hondas would probably agree with me, the hardest matchups (and should be 4-6 and 3-7s) are:
Chun Li, Seth, Dhalsim, Ken, M. Bison, "Vortex" Ibukis, Mixup El Fuertes, Mixup Makotos, and even good Guys.
For me personally, I can handle top tiers of any other characters especially Guile and shotos with ease.
And with SSF4, Sagat is a joke to me. It is definitely more like 6-4 Honda.
Just my two cents coming from a Honda main. I think he should be tiered below Balrog, IMHO.
no to be a dick but playing honda in any game but sf4 is irrelevant
The list seems pretty accurate. The only thing worth debating is the top 4 which seem to change monthly. I still think Chun is the best because she is armed with the best versatility over the other three characters.
But what it comes down two is player skill. Tier lists are basically match up charts which no one seems to understand. Since tiers are formed based on how many positive match ups.
And Makoto still sucks. Smart players will keep her away like their suppose to since she has bad-to-ok everything. She doesn't have anything great, let alone decent.
@100 i agree that chun li, seth, dhalsim and dictator are tough match ups for honda, but ibuki, fuerte, makoto and guy? no freaking way - ex headbutt destroys any character that has to rely on offense. i've lost to like 2 out of 100 el fuertes as honda and i'm not even that good. ken can be tough, but usually isn't because most people who use him online are trash.
Do any of you guys actually know how to read a tier list? if you did then you'd know that the only reason Honda is number 1 is because he dominates the lower tiers. He's not better than Bison, Guile, and Chun-Li. The way the numbers add up is why he's at the top spot, damn people don't complain about something you don't understand.
Also here's the numbers for the top 5 characters as if all the C characters had been taken out of the equation, im pretty sure you will notice the change.
Guile: 114
Chun Li: 113
Bison: 111
Balrog: 109
E. Honda: 108
They pretty much nailed viper. I'm not sold on the 4-6 Ibuki match-up but other than that everything else is exactly how it is. Doesn't make her bad. It does feel stupid fighting Bison and Honda though. I don't know the other characters all that well but from the little I do know I have to say they did a pretty good job making this list.
alot of the list is wrong, to be honest no tier list has got it completely right yet, and when they do we will have AE edition by then so we have to start over....
@ 105 Who Is Alpha
Couldn't be more right...Although I hate Honda. Oh and, I own you. Just sayin.
@Makoto_is_sexy: Not to be a dick, but playing Makoto in any game other than SF3 is irrelevant.
@112 saying makoto is sexy has nothing to do with playing her you dweeb lmao lmao learn to comprehend
@manboy: Yes, most noob players are easy to beat with Honda. I am talking about high level players (the ones with 4000+ player points, not character BP) that use Ibuki, Guy, and Ken especially.
When you don't have an EX bar with Honda, good luck with a high level Ibuki player would can knock you down once and vortex you. Also when you come across a Ken that is super aggressive and know how to kara everything, it's challenging.
My point is that Honda shouldn't be top tier and some of his matchups are off. Ibuki especially should be 5.5/4.5 Ibuki. Just my opinion if you are talking about high tier play.
@Makoto_is_sexy: Play me online and we will see who has the little dick once I sit my sumo butt on your sexy-lesbo face.
lmao lmao big fat asians (sumos) do have little dicks hahahaha
plus i dont play with little dicks...i only play with my own and its a big one at that
@Makoto_is_sexy: Don't know about sumo member sizes, but I know that my Honda has a big ol' a55. One that would turn that face into a sexy pancake. Not to mention, I want to slap you a few hundred times. PSN: HKsupastar See you in the ring, man.
lol aileast i think a chic makoto is sexy hahaha you over there talking about slapping honda big a55 a few hundred times lmao homo homo hahahaha
plus i play on 360 where the wider variety of talent is
@Makoto_is_sexy: Apparently someone needs to learn how to read and comprehend before replying.
I agree that XBOX360 has the wider variety of talent, but some of us have stuck it out on PS3 since we cant afford to buy a XBOX just to play the game. The talent on PS3 however should not be underestimated. The ratio of good players on PS3 is probably about the same as XBOX. I have come across some VERY VERY good players on PS3.
i was just twisting your words around to be funny man relax dude....if you lived near me i could get you and xbox for 55 bucks man...dirt cheap
I just cant see how dictator, boxer and fei long are bad match ups for ryu.
and this kind of tier lists are weird, some characters build up more points against low tiers, you can see honda has a lot of 7-3 against them, so even whit some characters having less points they might be more viable looking at how many bad matchs they have and against who, cammy is above ryu but she has bad match ups against all the best chars in the game, including ryu, so ryu seems better overall, just like chun li and guile seems better than honda, they have less bad match ups and almost any against the good chars.
makoto is not sexy unless you like little boys just sayin'. For people who say tier lists don't matter, then you're not reading it right. It's all about the matchup. Certain characters have tools that work better against characters which gives them more favor in winning. that's just how it is.
lol #107 viper vs ibuki is hard because her dash sucks out of fadc and she has no reversals to stop the vortex lol. 6-4 is being generous.
Viper is much higher than where she is put, as bias as it sounds seeing as how i'm a viper player. In no way is she almost 3/4 of the way down the list.
@129
I would still call sim a 5 for ryu. he has the normals to counter hit the arms, a good fireball and solid footspeed to chase him down. Its more of a mental game, the ryu player has to be able to deal with the insane amount of lameness in the match up but once he does that he can win.
ANd i agree he is disgusting. For a character with almost every option in the game hes too good. His move is either the best or one of the best in the game ie his dp, his normals, his fireball.
Chicken, abel is definitely a bad matchup for Guile. All of Guiles bad matchups are that way because of wakeup options.
Guile should actually have the advantage on chun is chun isn't using ultra 1 with laser precision, she only has the advantage right next time him
Look at all the high tier characters debating lmao! u guys are honestly all in denial if you think thi game is balanced...and for those that defend it...cut it out...the lower tier characters need hella buffs...and out the ass...yes Makoto is my main and she is that BAD...BAAAAAD!! No way any1 can tell me different...Just because J. Wong puts up a good fight with her against Mike Ross is sooo not convincing...For now ill deal with these horrible but honestly for my 60 dollars this game better get some tweaks n fast cause its ridiculous...whether ppl want to admit or not character advantage plays a bigger role than they think '
/end rant
@130 Like I said I'm not completely sold on it but I can see why they gave it a 4-6. The positions on the list is pretty irrelevant. My question to you is what match-ups do you think should be more in her favor than they are giving her credit for? I know all those 4-6 match-ups she has are more than justified. I don't see how she could go much higher? She's still a great character but the match-ups seem spot on.
@137
she isnt that bad, its just sf4 mechanic all go against her and it hurts her risk v reward gameplay. Its really easy to turn her into a broken character.
Skill > Tier list anyday.
Coming from a Bison, Cody and Hakan(Yeah Hakan) player
Glad to see some of you agree on this. If you play the game with skill and use Hakan you can get far.
a weighted tierlist based on this one can be seen at http://forums.eventhubs.com/viewtopic...
I know matchups between the lower tier characters aren't quite as important in the big picture, but can someone please explain to me how in the blue hell they have T Hawk as 6-4 against Juri? He just gets zoned to oblivion in that one
6-4 ibuki viper is being nice ibuki has so many tools to deal with viper. 1. great anti air 2. air grab 3. raida.
the next time a viper tries to jump in burn kick you just raida it and tell me ibuki doesnt own viper.
and like someone stated viper is very limited on wake up one knockdown is game changing.
Skill>Tier any day.