The official change list for Zangief, Sagat, Dan and Dudley was recently posted on the Japanese Super Street Fighter 4 blog.
The Dan nerfs to his specials and ultra are completely unnecessary. The normal buffs are nice however.
Hmm...Sagat stuff is vague ha. If overall dmg is higher on std lk then it cant be a reversed 10/30 dmg distribution. I dunno, a little damage boost and leave him as he is in ssf4 and id be happy......oh fix his god damn u1 in corner!
There has been many complaints about Angry Scar that it comes out when unintended, so we changed its command to kick buttons instead.
Well, maybe if you GOT RID OF THE SHORTCUTS, maybe people WOULDN'T COMPLAIN ABOUT IT!
If I come off as mad, it's because I am. I still think the change in AE are stupid and unnecessary, at least for the most part. Oh and to all you Abel players out there, isn't it fitting that Geif is slapping the crap out of Abel?
Okay thius makes more sense than th e translation earlier. As a Dan player I am somewhat pleased with the result. I don't even use Ultra 2 and I don't abuse HK Dankukyaku, but I do abuse MK...
I see Capcom tried really hard to not give Dudley any of the changes that he needed. No one had problems with how many active frames crouch mk had, but with how slow it was to come out. Ex Duck better have more properties than that. Otherwise it's really not a move that you should waste a meter to do. Why do jab xx ex duck when you can do jab > st. roundhouse xx ex mgb? The only buff that actually assesses Dudley's weaknesses is stomach blow being faster.
If you are going to nerf block and increase risk, then at least make it SAFE ON HIT and help the reward too.
How many other moves in the game are punishable on hit? Just curious if some people can name some other special moves punishable on hit.
Have to agree I hate Blanka but to punish blanka balls on hit is uh......lame
BlankaBeast, Rufus's crouch fierce is ultra punishable on hit. You can do it with moves like Rolling Thunder.
I see you meant specials, and I see that I am a dummy. Sorry.
#14 - I did mean specials but still good to know.
so true Darkyellow i would rather them make cr mk come out faster so you could do something like cr jab cr jab st jab cr mk for a untechable knockdown which is so important in dudley's game but of course capcom feels that rog's sweep should be twice as fast and have twice the range of dudley's MK *sighs*
I think people would think more like Sakura, Dan, Gouken.
The buff I wanted the most was Dudley's dash being faster. Having level 1 fa not be -3 would have been huge. If level 1 fa was +1 instead of -3, Dudley wouldn't really need anything else in terms of counter-poking.
@ 11 Blanka Beast
Seth's U2 is sometimes punishable on hit, depending on how it caught the opponent.
Ibuki LK Tsumuji is -4 on hit (the one that can't knockdown). Chun, Ryu and others with almost instant supers can punish her.
Ken HK Tatsu leaves him at a range where if you have 2 bars and a move with good horizontal range and invincibility (EX SRK?), there's nothing you can do but block and avoid the subsequent pressure (Ken mirror).
Those are just off the top of my head.
EX green hand with gief has no more knockdown.. so you can't do your cross up and mixups anymore.. you take that way and give us "use SPD after EX green hand now".. well.. most ppl will jump away to avoid it after the green hand hit.. that was a stupid change.. I got an idea.. let's take away EVERY characters crossup strategy and replace them with a silly tactic... -_-
AcidGlow, that depends on how you view it. The AE version of Ex Greenhand means that players can't press buttons after getting hit, or they will absolutely eat an spd. You can take the jump away by doing a good normal after ex greenhand and keep them grounded. Only thing you have to worry about is backdashes, but you can probably beat both a jump-back and a backdash with st. roundhouse.
Ok then, CAPCOM, increase the HIT STUN on BALLS and IBUKI's LK thing too.
Punishable on hit = WORST. GLITCH. EVER.
Its a negative reward, it makes no sense whatsoever.
I follow I just think it is a funny fact. Outside of stuff like final turn around punch which is -30 on hit of hard banishing flats (green hand) -7 on hit and the moves previously mentioned the only other bother with some moves (that come to mind) is stuff like Ken getting one hit of his MP of FP shoryuken leaving him flying and waiting for big punishment or Ex Messiah jumping over crouched players halfway through.
Uhhh.....how is Gief's Hand not knocking down going to affect his match-ups against Chun-Li or Rose (who both have amazing back dashes and nice round houses that give Gief hell)? Either this is a blessing or a nightmare.
Can characters with two EX bars get a free escape off this? <_<
Gief's pressure on wake-up is one of his best traits, taking that away from him is like taking sugar away from kool-aid.
Lol as a sagat player I still get messages that he's broken, some people will blame the character rather than their lack of game knowledge
Nerf all characters in favor of turtle tactics and make them offensive, nuff said.
I hate how this game's system rewards cowardice.
who cares in a month so will all be playing mvc3 so on capcom ono whoevers running the show destroy the game even more see if i care!
So far the only characters that have been severely butchered with the balance changes are:
Abel -I find some of them unnecessary and I am not an Abel player.
Cammy - eliminating the tiger knee command cannon spike move is kind of uncool. Personally, I think that move is cool and it makes Cammy fun and unique as a character, and without it she's just not as fun anymore. Note, I don't play with her either but I dabble around with her in training just to master tiger knee execution.
Rose - I find her ultra 2 overpowering at all so this is another change I am not so proud of.
Bison - Capcom why change a perfectly find move to charge motion. It just makes it a lot harder to use that move in tight situations. I guess I have to adjust like every other player.
There is a possibility these changes aren't set in stone since we, the console users, have months before it hits our side. Depending on how the Arcade community reacts to it, they may change or stay the same. Nonetheless, the balances doesn't seem that bad and are a welcome in my book but I am still curious about the extra characters.
In a month you'll be playing mvc3? at a high level the skill gap is greater in the mvc series than it is in the street fighter series. When you get owned, you'll learn to appreciate Ssf4 a little more. Also the execution, and reaction times are alot more demanding. Lol you think you'll have an easier time with mvc3? I'm buying it to support capcom, but in no way do I plan on trying to reach a high level. I just don't have the reaction time, or play on a happ perfect 360 to properly play the game.
Mote recovery on ultra 2? As if it were necessary? The thing is super hard to land even with this buff and I'd you miss, you basically lose the round. 5 mins of recovery, lol.
No cr.lk change?
Also kick lariat is crap :/
@44
Dude, he needed so much more than that crap. What you're saying is "he didn't get nerfed so that's fine", but these changes won't help much. Sure, you can get a ducking upper out in 6 frames instead of 12 for an EX-bar, but you still need superhuman reflexes to tag Guile. Unless it travels 1 character length per frame you won't be getting in on Dhalsim with it. In matchups where he loses because of footsies, it's useless (except for maybe lucking out against a high poke). A faster Ducking won't help against any of his tougher fights, and frankly his regular ducking was good enough to handle all projectiles except Guile's (which this buff won't help with anyways).
I actually think Dudley will get WORSE in AE because of other characters around his level getting buffed normals, and Dudley receiving practically nothing to help him deal with that. Dudley gutter trash tier for life =(
@ 46
Amen.
@ 48
haha, true that.
@ 51
Isn't the need for better skill good for a fighting game. To be honest, Street Fighter is so user-friendly that sh*tty players can do well. That's one of my gripes with this game.
Not really bragging or anything but in Blazblue (which in my mind takes more skill than MVC), I had a win percentage of 75%. I even did decent against guys who are on Japan's level (or at least just below Japan's level). But in SSFIV, my win percentage is 58%.
I for one am happy to be able to move on to a game that I am sure I will own it :)
@57
Sounds like Blazblue's got a pretty bad rank/matchmaking system if you win 75 % of the time... your being at Japan-level in that game sounds like an indicator that it's the other way around (SF having room for skill) :P
And being able to input a shoryuken != "doing well"... go to a tournament and test your "sh*tty players can do well"-theory ;)
People its called the Banishing Flap. That name is awesome. Might have to jump on gief if el fuertes nerfs hurt him that bad.
Wonder whats guiles buffs & nerfs????? interesting
DAN is the only respectable shoto. because he fights for his father...
OYAJI !!! T__T
@ 58
I do go to my local tourneys. There are some top level players there like Dagger_G (one of, if not, the best Guile player in America).
In any case, I do pretty well, and a lot of people say that I am a great player (it's always helpful when there is absolutely no lag). I can even beat a player who ranked 33rd on EVO this year.
Trust me, I know fighting games, and SSFIV is one of the most user-friendly games out there. Guilty Gear, Blazblue, MVC3 and 3rd Strike takes much more skill. That is why not that many people play it. Because it takes SKILL.
@ 63
Ok let me rephrase that. SSFIV is user-friendly because the leniency it gives players, such as short-cuts for SRK inputs, auto-correct, input delays, option select, etc.
There is dept there, and knowing what to do in whatever situation does take skill. But because of how the game was designed with all these things I've mentioned, it makes it easier for people to play and do well. And depending on the character, it makes things even easier.
In most other fighting games, the inputs are more stricter, which means that technical skill becomes more important. And being able to block instant overheads become more important. Such as in Blazblue, many characters have an instant overhead that leads to a 25%-50% damage combo.
Street fighter has never been about how hard the links are. It's about spacing and reading your opponent.
So, any argument about it being casualized or easy is kind of redundant.
Then all at the same time you have people like David Sirlin who claims the game is unnecessarily complicated.
You say Street Fighter is user friendly. That's a good thing. Being complicated wouldn't make Street Fighter suddenly better.
@ 65
I think that I am a pretty good player. Like I said before, many people consider me a great player and always tell me to go to tourneys.
@ 67
I never said street fighter invented it. What I said was SSFIV based their game off of it.
@ 68
The reason no one "cares" about the other fighting games is because it is harder to play. Most people give up quickly because they realize they can't just pick it up and play well.
If you people really knew some of the game you would know that for some people input leniency can kill some charaters execution Gouken was a prime example which is why in AE the changed his counter motion to a punch button.
I meant @ 69 for the last part.
@ 66 and 68
Leniency is good for sales. SSFIV sells a lot and is more popular because it is an easy fighter compared to most. It is very user-friendly, which also makes it a relatively basic fighter.
SSFIV is about spacing and reading your opponents, but I feel like it relies too much on that. You have to read your opponent in the harder fighters too, but you also need the technical skill to be able to pull of combos and such.
In games like Blazblue and MVC3, I feel as if you need to base your game on 50% reading your opponents, and 50% on having technical ability. While in SSFIV, you mostly just need 80% reading and only 20% technical ability. That's why I feel as if it's not a skillful game.
In retrospect though, I love street fighter. I just hate the easiness of it. Which is what I blame for my losses online (I play Cammy btw, so I need to be almost perfect in my execution... I love doing Sako combos) :)
@ 68
Funny thing is, that's exactly how I felt when I first got into fighting games two years ago. I never played before that while all my friends played for over 10 years. I remember how I would always ask them how to block a cross-up cause I couldn't figure it out.
All this does not solve jack crap of Zangiefs bad match-ups U2 is so unreliable to begin with honestly the motion should have been similar to T.Hawks U2... Also why increase recovery it sucks squat to even use you basically have to bait it and even then smart players won't usually fall for it. Also it's a horrible Ultra in clutch situations.
EX green hand not knocking down is a huge nerf especially since most of my style is his mix up game which means its no longer useful... I say this because with the changes even if you hit EXGH any character with a DP style move can beat you and odds are a regular throw as well or in the case of grapplers a reversal 360. Also you can no longer wake up EX is stupid if the opponent just throws you out of it no throw invincibility so waste of a bar.
Agree with WorstGief Kick lariat is useless can't even help against zoners very well.
@ 74
I have a feeling that Zangief's bad matchups just got worse. I remember watching Haneyama completely BODY Zangitan recently and the only way Zangitan actually won was off of a ex-GH knockdowns; followed the the offensive mix-ups afterwards.
Gay.
&75 I watched that and cringed yet she's doens't any worthwhile nerfs or her ultra changed into a motion what gives...
Im assuming capcom figure by doing that green hand change mix with U2 change they both can cover each other. Hitting someone with ex green hand, they would either try to jump away, back dash, use a reversal move like a DP: U2 will catch them trying to escape. If not trying to escape SPD would beat out any pokes they may attempt. Although that sounds like a potential good trap on paper, i dont think its gonna pan out that way tho need to be really good at reading your opponent habits.
@77 But you need Ultra meter what about when they begin the next round it's pointless and like I mentioned before U2's motion is the most retarted one out there it rarely comes out and when it does it's too late hell one time I used it against an Ibuki player in the corner it activates and it didn't grab her true story.
Take it from throwryuken, zangief is still gonna own.
Gief gets plenty of wakeup opportunity off of his lariat knockdowns. I think ex banishing flat will still be of use.
Besides, as a gief main, I will take SPD damage + range over ex banishing flat knockdown any day. That's as good as a 4 stam 4 strength LEATHER BELT!!
You knows vangief will win as many tourneys as he should be after this.
@#78
my dude i was merely speculating what could have been going thru capcoms head, seeing how they are allowing u2 to grab people back dashing and jumping away easier due to control over it. Make sense if you think about it like that, and with a good read can net in alot of damage for a comeback. Eat a SPD or eat U2 near free damage and alot of it per round.
Yea i use gief and im using a dpad. when i catch my friends fei long overhead kick with U2 from my wake up i say i won the match just for pulling that off. Cause he facepalming so hard lol.
Also start of the next round i guess you can try shenanigans with exGH and kick lariat to prevent them from jumping away or scare them with a SPD if they wanna block.
The lariat isn't very viable as a knockdown as in vanilla and you can't really pressure unless you get the knockdown in some other way besides it's not the great AA it used to be plus increase range is good but meh since they can still just jump and punish and the lariat it doesn't do squat against across the screen zoners who will just poke you out of distance or uppercut you back.
By increase range I was talking about SPD sorry forgot to put that there,
@80 The price you pay for that reward just doesn't add up honestly... plus here is Ultra David's input on this taken from SRK
Thoughts on Zangief:
The change to Zangief's ex hand is a nerf. Right now after ex hand you get a sweet situation, complete with crossups/fake crossups, safe jumps, safe meaties and option selects. All that stuff is really important to Zangief's game. Gief's sweep is crappy so really the only knockdown he gets from range is ex hand.
So without knockdown, ex hand is worse. Sure you can probably cr jab/short combo to keep the opponent from jumping away, and you can spd if you think he's gonna stay, and you can even ex hand if you think he's gonna backdash. But Gief ALREADY had all those option with knockdown ex hand, except he ALSO had safe jumps and safe meaties and option selects. What's to stop opponents with dp fadc from doing that every single time Gief gets an ex hand? Gief's backdash is too crappy to escape, so... I think his only option is another ex hand, which is kinda dumb. With a knockdown I could do a safe jump or stand at a range where dp could whiff or I could backdash to escape it, but I can't do that without a knockdown.
The only benefit to ex hand hitting like this is that it seems like you have to guess faster. Well, you really don't. Most of the times ex hand hits are in combos, aka you know ex hand is coming and can think about what to do already. But even when it's random, it takes a while to come out and hit and recover, and everyone in the world can punish it very easily. I see no reason why people won't be able to deal with it just as well after getting over the initial shock of it not knocking down.
The change log says the move is +1 on hit, which, given the way his other hands' frame advantages work (2 frames of difference between hit and block), means that ex hand is probably -1 on block. Having it be effectively safe on block is nice, but again the payoff for it hitting is significantly less. I would 100% rather have the move knock down than be safe.
Another way you know this is a nerf is that at the loke test it DID knock down on counter hit. In other words, Capcom recognizes that it's better as a knock down move, so when you do it at just the right time, you get a bigger payoff in the form of a knock down.
As for the buff to lp spd range, I hope it's noticeable, hopefully it's enough to punish most characters' backdashes after ex hand. Buff to lp spd damage is nice, although I wasn't really looking for that.
Imo the buff to u2 is irrelevant unless its changes are pretty drastic, like much bigger horizontal and vertical range, more active frames, less recovery, etc. I don't know what it means to be able to move it around, but I don't expect whatever that means to be enough for me to give up u1.
I meant as using the Kick lariat after a "hit" exGH seeing how it will leave you at +1 and kick lariat is what 4 frame start up? and recovers fairly quick for anyone not suspecting it or thinking you are gonna grab and it will hit them on their starting up jumping frames. Cant test that out yet tho. Works fine faking out people when going for tick throws just to toss out kick lariat to stop them from jumping away, and if they block it i just go for Lp SPD from max range. Doing to it just to get them in a habit to try and block after exGH hit instead of running away so you can just grab after.
eh just read you number 82 post after i posted my reply X_X, yea i agree with Ultra david for the most part. I dont agree with the changes to exGH but im looking for a way to work around it seeing how its too late for it to change by now.
depending on characters anyone with a dp should be able to snuff it, other grapplers and Balrog... basically your making Gief 1 dimensional in his offense. don't forget Gief's moves aren't throw invincible so a regular throw should be able to snuff the kick lariat...
sorry meant Capcom don't know where your came from lol.
#85
Yea maybe thats what capcom was aiming to do is limit gief options by doing that. Wanting him to grab more and combo less so exGH combos would kinda put you in a bad spot, but if you use it to plow thru an attack normally to get in off a counter hit you can set up for mix ups like they intended. Stupid i say but seeing the changes, they aiming to limit people options in general.
True people can grab the lariat before it hits, but you can also grab them with an SPD instead first. A simple guessing game. Who is gonna wanna guess to grab gief after a hit exGH? when he could just grab instead and beat your guess out. That was the point i was trying to get at. Granted DP users would put a kink in things and that when you can just opt to block if they have 2 meters think they may fadc out.
And as ultra david said about DP user fadc'n out. Think of it like this, you can make them burn 2 bars for your 1 bar(which is pretty good in a sense to make them waste meter on guessing)... granted all this mess can be avoided if they just left the move alone.
Now moving to the other thing increased distance hard punch?
lol only time ive seen far HP is when people mess up their 360s(cough my friends)That is a random"buff"
if thats his fierce punch I honestly see no use for it other than the jumping version... maybe you would know? The only other thing is to set up a tick throw of sorts but its slow.
But think about it this way as well if say the opponent does FADC out he's going back to regaining his controlled space and keep Gief out once again making him work to get in which against certain characters is already an annoying chore.
yeah it's pretty useless if anything increase damage on medium a much better poke shame they didn't announce the light kick frame changes (if any)
Annoying chore is an understatement, if anything i would like that weird F+Fp hopping headbutt he had in alpha 3. It was good to hop over some low pokes and get in a bit without having to jump into moves taking a trade or nothing all damn day...
Yea dude that far standing Fierce/hard punch is that slow club swinging move he does, far Fk does the same damage, moves him forwards a bit and a bit faster recovery smh.
ooh Alpha3 now there was fun game I miss the guard meter plus the characters, voices and music lol
Oh well despite the changes I'm sticking with him (unless Rolento or Karin make it in) I'm hoping he at least stands a better chance against his bad match ups highly doubt it at least I'm not like some other people who are going around I'm dropping character X cause of nerf.
Honestly my changes would have been
*Light kick variations 3 frame
*Ability to cancel the running power bomb
*Throw invincibility on EX GH
*At least one Armor breaker (heck make it the Kick Lariat so it can be of more use)
*Vanilla Lariat (that one is a real stretch)
*Motion change for U2. have you been able to hit it on a consistently?
Should have nerfed gief all around no buuffs needed whatsoever jump in after knockdown, with a weak knee, block it and eat a 360...Same s*** with ibuki shurken vortex on knockdown REPEAT THE SAME CRAP THE WHOLE INTIRE ROUND... those characterS dont require any IQ
They gave me my mecha gief outfit i cant ever truly drop him lol. You know after you mentioned it i never really noticed gief didnt have an armor breaker move. I still Punch lariat focus attacks close range, it seems to force them to absorb a hit and their focus attack goes thru me and a second hit of lariat hits them(anger stirs in the gaming room onto me >_>) or just SPD them after they let it rip lol maybe i need to play better people it seems to work on and offline for me.
But i see your point and agree with your changes for the most part. yea a better motion for U2 would make it easier to land instead of trying to jump and then do the motion just to have a foot in your face already. Vanilla lariat is what gods are made of, even i can admit it lol. Dont see what throw invurn exGH would do i never been grabbed outta it before, elaborate? And running bomb to be canceled would be nifty Hakan is able to do so now. uhh tho rather him not do the spook and hands up animation on start up give it away to easily, ST days its was sneaky as hell and even mvc it was deadly on anyone staying on the ground.
if missed timed DP can go through it and a walk up throw stops it due to its start-up same for command grabs on EX Green Hand which is why the wake up ex green hand mentioned in the notes was dumb to begin with walk up throw beats it.
Punch Lariat is good but since you control it at times moving foward a FA can be released and it will hit not very often but a key example is Balrog if you lariat foward and he EX rush it will beat the lariat leading to his bnb to ultra this is for foward as for remaining still not sure moving back yes it will stop EX moves but sadly for me why should Gief move back when the mission is going foward.
@94 Your just a troll the knee has to be timed precisely in order for the grab to work too low on block it whiffs they can take the knee dmg and the 360 whiffs at certain angles if they block or take the hit a regular throw beats it or mashing DP...
O_o i rarely do wake up exGH maybe thats why i havent noticed, and what part of the note are you refering too i dont see anything about gief waking up with exGH just him not being about to do wake-up offense after. You have any video example of people grabbing gief outta start up on exGH i havent been able to replicate it. Start up seems to ignore just about everything.
Only time i really get hit by a focus attack is due to my reckless jump ins or far FK. And against balrog i dont do pre-emptive lariats until i see them dashing forwards and i just cram the button down >_> while slightly moving back or sometimes get lucky and focus attack cancel the lariat on hit and absorb his hit as well. And sometimes moving back isnt always a bad thing and something i should do more often >_<
I do the same but with lariat but always have a habit of holding foward which sometimes makes them absorb the first hit but they finish the move leading to a combo this might only be Balrog though but this is EX moves not the regular Focus but its the same concept.
Egg on my face about the article misread it
EX GH doesn't have throw invincibility example Gief mirrors usually lead to splashfest so if you have meter the answer is EX GH to escape well if the opponent has ultra even jab SPD it will grab them on start-up. Test in training mode easier with a friend have your friend sweep Gief and get close EX GH and have him do a regular throw this on wake-up yes but I've had moments where they just walk up to me and EX GH seems like a better option and they just throw me out of it sadly no videos of this but you can test it out.
yes i disagree with the gief nerfs but when capcom do nerfs or buffs its so the the lower tier characters have a somewhat "better" matchup... sure gief has some horrible matchups now and with the nerf its just atrocious but think about it geif is no where near the bottom half of the cast.. also with an increased range on lp spd u may be able to punish poorly spaced cr.mk from shotos on block... from what i c with the nerf to zangief is that they really want players to utilize his U2 shenanigans off of ex gh... a shoto that gets hit by ex gh without 2 bars to get out safe is in gief favor.. which means he has more options to deal damage and continue pressure than them trying to escape... the the other bad matchups will always be an uphill battle unless they make ex gh throw invinsible. also i think the increased range on hard punch is to honestly trade hits and even better on counter hit... i mean really who wants to trade hits against zangief... cant wait for guile update im ready for some giggles
yea i tried it with the dummy on record, my timing is horrible most likely. And the scrubby gief mirrors ive had was usually me chasing the other gief down while he tries to keep me out. AND MANY MANY MANY jump attacks from both sides. Also i rarely do quick get ups on grappler mirrors to screw with their timing on meaty grabs if they are good at it or like to safe jump expecting a quick recovery. Yea i knew what you meant about rog armored dash punches, i sorta use half the cast with friends at gaming parties we have. but mainly focus on gief,thawk, and rose when it comes down to the intense matches.
@100 But in reality the balance should have been to make matches 5-5 not the other way around yes he can be balanced against the low tiers but it feels like he will do worse against the ones above him but like I mention time and again U2 is a very unreliable ultra to even attempt to begin with plus they get rid of a bunch of much better options that makes the ultra unnecessary. Also far heavy punch is the most useless move he has on the ground not even for trades its useful to slow.
@101 It's easier with a friend but yeah it does happen... are you on PSN or XBOX? well in the mirrors I've had I usually medium punch and heavy kick to keep the out.
Im on psn but rarely play online(psn-noobsauced), my room mate brought it on the 360(n00bsauced) but that dpad IS NOT gonna cut it. S**t can barely read my diagonals. i rarely try to keep people out in grappler mirrors ill just try to force a trade with my heavy attacks with their jabs,s. mp or whatever they wanna use :D also tend to do that in non mirrors. rather force a trade then try to avoid something and get hit( im looking at you sim, chun, seth players)
Oh wow. Oh wow very much.
So Gief is buffed, command throw, which are incidentally amongst the most retarded moves in the game, has range and damage increase and lariat is unchanged...
But Gen can't have super meter gain buff. That makes... Sense.
What about Sagat's trade ultra? They tried to fix it for SSF4 but unfortunately he can still do it.
I was hoping Dud's Thunderbolt would have less recovery frames. The only thing I felt its descent for is chip death. Also sometimes the first hit of the Thunderbolt will hit them(right above their head) then he just lands on the ground leaving him wide open. I love Duds but I wish he had more low game. Low attacks pretty much stuff him out of most of his moves. Ah well, still stickin with him.
Now Zangief will deffinitly be my wrost match :( He can command grab me from all my jaguar kicks even on hit if I dont run away or if I get a instant jaguar kick him. I guess Ill have to just use fierce kick over and over again :( not even safe to back dash
Man, its nice to see all the hype and 'over' speculation :) Looking forward to seeing the changes to my boy, dont care if they're buff or nerfs
I kind of dislike the way they are balancing things now. It's like what they are doing with MMORPG. Giving 3 frame jab/short and loads of links to everyone, (even dan has link combos now, awesome) getting rid of characteristic things from those characters in the end most character are played the same. "oh yeah I got a jab hit, quick let's link into a medium, another medium or special move lawl I'm good." And then what comes out on top of the tier are those with the best escape ability and the trickiest wakeup options. Meh, balance my a$$. It's easier to keep things simple and balanced rather than making everyone strong and complicated.
@96
Where do you read his walking speed will be buffed? EX Ducking won't be nowhere near a good "in" on most of the cast. It will only help in fights he could already handle. Also, while bigger hitboxes are always nice, bigger overhead hitbox *may* be nice, but only if s.hk hitbox gets better (which they didn't say). If you can't link into s.hk the extra range on overhead becomes fairly useless.
@crispylinks77
It is always important to make a fighting game popular, otherwise the competition will be low & fewer people will recognize the top players as well as their skills. You are too ignorant to say games are not popular because people can't pick them up, there are so many other reasons. e.g. No one cares about MVC in Japan and no one cares about KOF in U.S.
Different games require different skills. How is reading skills not technical skills? The essence of street fighters is actually reading skills, combos are just basic stuff, do you even know that?
RE: Blanka Ball
Medium Punch & Hard Punch's distances got shorter. Risk on a long distance Hard Punch Roll got higher, but it retains its distance on hit.
can people read?? blanka ball is not now punishable on it, it has remained the same as console version on hit
It would be great if Capcom come back to SF Alpha 2/3, and put a little more of this games in SFIV AE. I miss A-ism and V-ism modes in this game. It could be very funny a V-ism mode. XD
@crispylinks77
Overly strict controls + difficult inputs = bad game.
Don't forget, this is a game. People need to have fun with it. Going into training mode and spending hours to learn a simple move simply isn't fun.
The accessibility of SSFIV means that there is a better balance between execution and smarts/wits/strategy.
More like a game of chess; it doesn't take a lot of skill to move a piece from a square to another, but challenge a chess champion, and you'll get humbled quite quickly.
@bokosaki
About Dan, he really did need some better links for combos. Read is corrent frame data he probably has the worst normals in the game. All there active frames range from a wopping 2-3 frames. Omly move with some nice hit advantage is Standing close MP and that not even very impressive.
i wouldnt start crying yet Gief players. Bison in SF2CE had no knockdown on his scissors resulting in infinites>dizzy repeat... if you can combo into EX green hand you have many options after that. like n. jump to whiff a Ultra or SPD right after your EX GH etc... look at it like Kens EX tatsu. it doesnt knowckdown and allows Ken to follow up with many options. i havent read all of the EX GH info so if hes not at a frame disadvantage, then you should be happy. but i dont play Gief so correct me if im wrong, just trynna lighten up some people here.
@94
your a scrub. if you cant deal with Ibukis kunai vortex then go play Dragon Ball Z or something easier for your crappy fighting game skills.
"WAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH Ibukis so broken i cant FA dash out of her Kunai vortex or just put some effort into it and learn to block it, because i suck at fighting games. I know i'll just cry about it and Capcom will fix my problem."
damn i hate people who are new to SF. they ruin the whole damn game.
@117
believe it or not, games like SF2 and Alpha were WAAAAAAAAAAAAAYY morre fun than (S)SF4. because first of all, playing a difficult game is more fun than playing a game were it takes almost no skill to win. didnt you hear the interview with Marn. he said some guy in SSF$ (Japan tourny) picked Rog and started doing random headbutts and Ultras etc... and he got really far in the tournament. if he was playing a game like SF2 Alpha or 3rd strike, he would get demolished. i havent even touched CvS2 but from what Seth Killian said, it looks like it will take a LONG time for someone to master it. once 3rd strike online comes out, i'll be happy. people who have never played fighting games wil either have to live with the struggle of hard fighting games, or quit. its a win/win situation for me (assuming they didnt crap on 3rd strike online either).
this pisses me off. esp as a vega user. how the hell do hey go so far out of their way to make things better and easier for Dudley, while ignoring the slew of issues with Vega? that's some serious BS right there...
who the hell gives a damn about Sagat's NAME as "the king" as a reason to make sure he stays near the top!? more importantly, he's was a general under Bison... and like him and Balrog, Vega was a general too. yet, of the 3, Vega is on the bottom, and below many other fighters... WTF?
increasing damage on ANY of zangiefs attacks is ridiculous. his damage outputs are already crazy. esp when they see a need to DECREASE damage output for Vega's harder-to-land barcelona slam.
it just really sucks because they damn near completely ignored the complaints of Vega users, while bending over backwards for dudley and some others.
All I'm going to say is....if Gief's hand is going to give people free escapes, then his bad match-ups (Blanka/Chun-Li/Rose) are going to be a nightmare and Chun-Li is already a HUGE pain in the ass.
"Yea maybe thats what capcom was aiming to do is limit gief options by doing that. Wanting him to grab more and combo less so exGH combos would kinda put you in a bad spot, but if you use it to plow thru an attack normally to get in off a counter hit you can set up for mix ups like they intended. Stupid i say but seeing the changes, they aiming to limit people options in general."
Grapplers without combos don't work in SF (see T. Hawk/Hakan). You have to work extraordinarily hard for any reward and then you can easily lose to stupid stuff.
Blankaisascrub go take your hate somewhere else troll don't let the door hit you on the way out someone ban this fool...
@105 Gief isn't getting buffs basically they want his whole set up revolved around the SPD which is already the one thing all the other players expect which wasn't the case if you had to fear the combos of the eventual EX knockdown in to the mix up game so it's a huge nerf... As for Gen should have just brought Vanilla Gen back honestly.
@119 It would work but makes little difference if they can simply mash out of it this was solely done for U2 which sucks already since the command is unreliable also gief isn't ken whose combos take much less timing as gief if you add the light kick into the equation.
@122 I honestly could care less for the damage increase for SPD is of little use with the big price he is paying for it.
@126 But the issue it's no a true armor breaker so characters with a counter can stop him if baited correctly yet the characters with the better options have at least an armor breaker when they could go without one
yea ive been playing Bison since CE buddy. im no scrub. i suck at the game sure. but im not a scrub. calling a character "cheap" or saying someone like SSF4 Bison is "broken" is what scrubs say, so...
btw for the 50th time i dropped Bison because of the fact that hes "top-teir." picked up Ibuki so scrubs like you wouldnt bitch at me every time i win. and judging from your ID you hate Blanka because you cant deal with his shenanigans. go play harder SF games and then try SSF4 you'll see how stupid you were after that.
my comment was to blankaisascrub. change your ID to "ImAScrub"
I think Vega needs more buffs, Blanka needs more nerfs... And give Ken more frame disadvantage on blocked light Shoryuken, I'm tired of Ken players counter my counters to their light Shoryukens...
@133 I think they made it "normal" like the rest of the cast he didn't need that changed honestly the only top guy I heard complain about it was Alex Valle when got owned by Gamerbee
@#119 Yea see thing main thing is between kens ex tatsu and gief new exGH is the mentality of the players mainly and of course the different tool set of the two.
People spend most of there time trying to keep gief OUT and while ken on the other hand isnt a grappler and has better anti air options than gief does if they do try to escape. So comparing the two is a bad idea.
Also ken has a better back dash and still has an option to have a knockdown by comboing into a sweep or srk. While gief would really have many options after a hit exGH and will be forced to work his way in again.
@#122
Do keep in mind that Vega is the fastest out the 3 commanders more mobile and has like the most range on pokes, it would make sense for him to do less damage than them.Dudley has a poor ground footsies game iirc and can be hard to get in with him, Vega on the other hand is solid outside not having ST being a good anti air but he has normals and air throws for that. While yes he can use some better chances but dont deny dudley of his.
ALSO lets be real Vega FBA is NOT harder to land than any of giefs moves. He can combo it from alot of his normals, can be hit confirmed easily, can cross up on wake up... How is it harder to land again? Or are you one of them vega players that isnt so good at hitting the up corners properly. Vega just needs a GTFO me move.
@#127 i wasnt aware of rose being a bad match up for gief, she seems like a downgraded chun li in almost every aspect.
And as you stated grapplers with combos dont work really, but in capcom eyes they SHOULD be grapplers not combo heavy and not having to grab to win, which is probably why they are doing this for that very reason you said against it. And capcom designed them to work hard for wins thus the extra health stun and damage they have over everyone.
Granted Gief and Hakan can do combos now but just enough to set up for grabs. thawk still cant fadc anything and still cant link combo into his ground advancing move like hakan and gief can.
Capcom is doing good so far, keep it up, love the dudley changes slight but no nerfs, even tho i would have loved to have duds old rose back... oh well.
@BisonBetterBeGoodInSSF4
I played CVS2 before, and it is a good game. Anyway, look at games in another perspective, if the game can retain the beginners even though they can't pick it up easily, it is a successful game. This is what SF4 can achieve but many other games can't. I think this is also the main reason Capcom made SF4 instead of SF3.4 cause difficulty of a game is not important.
Seemed Like to me, dudely didint need the buffs. Oh well, I don't main him, so I shouldint know what he needs or not.
That's what they said about Guile, now every scrub wants to nerf that
@140
Hahaha, now that's a stupid comparison :D I don't think anyone in their right mind considered Guile's buffs from Vanilla to Super anything less than stellar. Insane buffs is the reason he's very good in Super, and why scrubs want to nerf that. (Actually, scrubs wanted him nerfed even in Vanilla lol)
@a9a9a9
I understand what your saying and i agree with you, but you used a bad example. SF4 is not a game were beginners enjoy it but cant pick it up. i believe SF4 is the most noob-friendly SF game ever. remember my comment about that Rog player who did nothing but random moves and made it far in a Japanese tournament. there was a kid playing Bison (not saying hes broken) and was beating people much older than him. all he did was random EX psycho and threw out a lot of st.RH. did i mention the kid was 7? now obviously he wouldnt do that to a pro, but i mean if it was CvS2 or 3rd strike, the kid wouldnt land a single hit against anyone. i would rather play a game were it would take me a long time to learn, than a game were all i have to do is throw out random moves and i win. Im really hoping they dont change 3rd strike online at all. keep Chun and Yun the way they are. the people who have already dealt with them and learned how to, are happy. those who havent, get in line and start learning.
@141
Guile didnt get any INSANE buffs. it was everyone else who got nerfed badly (especially RUF, SAG and RYU). in no way is any character in SSF4 broken. the same with Bison. hes not god-teir either, but because everyone else got nerfed and he got minor buffs, hes one of the best chars in the game. people who say the words "cheap" "broken" "spam" or any other word that because of their ignorance cant deal with that certain character, is a scrub.
@143
Yes, Guile got INSANE buffs. I guess you measure the nerfs/buffs of a character by the amount of bullet points. "Oh, this character got buffs on two moves, that's better than this character's buff on only one move! Herp derp, I'm pro!"
The buffs to Guile made him a completely different beast, mainly the sonic boom charge time reduction, which made his projectiles one of the best (arguably the best) projectile in the game. A buff useful against every character in the game. That is what I call an INSANE buff, and every single good Guile player out there would agree with me that his buffs had just as much to do with his new position as a strong character as other character's nerfs. He also got an improved flash-kick, making lk flash FADC a viable option to disrupt oki pressure -- not as huge as the sonic boom buff, but helped him in several matchups.
BTW I never ever said anything about any character being cheap. I just stated Guile is "very good" in SSF4. I guess you just have to take every chance you get to preach about the balance of the game so we all know you're not one of those "scrubs" who complain... moron.
oh your right Guiles sonic boom got a buff by building slightly more meter and reducing the recovery on it. and thats such an INSANE buff, because you know...Guile only has two specials. if one of them is poopy, might as well make the other one worth while. if anything Guile didnt receive an INSANE buff, its more like he got what he deserved. i dont even play Guile and me being a (former) Bison main (7-3 match-up not in my favour) i can tell you that Guile rightly deserves to have the best projectile in the game. just as he did in SF2 (after O. Sagat). btw i wasnt accusing you of saying cheap or broken or anything like that. i was actually trying to let you know the kind of people there are out there. you obviously misunderstood me
141
Uhh yea whatever. Obviously you haven't even been playing this game as far back as april of this year even, when dudley was supposed to be top tier and Guile still sucked according to PRO players, but you probably can't even name those "stellar" buffs he got and that sorta proves the point i was trying to make.
143, thats ONE buff you clown. This site has such a wealth of information that it's amazing we get such willfully ignorant posters. Not only that, but the reduced the charge time 5 frames...that's it. For ignorant people, that's like...a 12th of a seconds difference...ömg that's insane!!".
Yea the nerfs to other characters made more of a difference than the buffs. If you took Guile from super and put him in vanilla, he'd still be close to the bottom, although not absolute bottom. Super guile actually does less damage than vanilla guile...durr. His lk flashkick got an increase of maybe 2 invincibility frames, so that he can knock shotos out of their staple combo....that's insane? Shutup already.
Bison didn't get insanely buffed, he's pretty much the same as he was in vanilla...alot of characters are. It's just amazing how badly so many characters were being held back by the BS that the trinity could pull off in vanilla, and that's why they(mostly) got nerfed and it's not all about FADC ultra in super.
Wait so Dan's neutral jumping HP is a knock down on a standing opponent now? If so that sucks, I use that to link another hard punch and the koryuken for massive damage. I also use it to get an ultra in.....
@146
are you sure your not confusing me with someone else? im the one saying Guile didnt recieve any insane buffs everyone else got nerfed badly. or maybe your post is just contradicting itself? Guile did get buffs (as i said before) but nothing too crazy as HaiHaine is saying.
Sagat should have some Target Combo
1. Far LP -> Forward HP
it should look like Sagat's final winning pose with his Muay Thai elbow moves
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My updated version of Dudley's Rocket Upper instead of just 3 Jet Upper
Normal Shortswing Blow, then he does Cr HP -> HK with a final tornado jet upper
BUFF GIEF!!!