The Japanese SSF4 blog was updated with a list of changes for the Arcade Edition of the game.
Hmmmm, Chun-Li changes. This should make my training even more interesting. **(^_^)**
Chun-li I saw coming. I'm ok with it. El Fuerte was a surprise to me. Didn't see that coming. I'm ok with it also because I hate El Fuerte, but I can see why people would complain. Half of Sakura's are vague so I don't even know what's up her yet. I was hoping that they extended the hk ruffian hitbox down a bit so it can hit crouching opponents better. That and a faster walking speed was what I was looking forward to. They tend not to throw everything at once, but not having a confirm atm worries me.
The across-the-board nerfs on Fuerte seem a bit uncalled for... nothing is completely game-breaking for him, but the only thing that isn't a straight-up nerf is the crouching light punch change, and he's not exactly a poke character so I don't see it changing much.
Can't wait to hear what they going to do for sagat!
Lovin the sakura changes! her playstyle was already cool and all she needed was more reward for her work. hope its enough for her though.
BTW Thank You ONO for...NOT making it so his Super connects after his Q-Bomb on all characters! (It only hits in the corner)
And Thank You for not buffing his Rarely Used Q-Bomb!
Thanks for not keeping his super STILL useless! (Low damage, hard to connect and no invincibility)
@catalyst
where can we submit more questions like that guy asked about Ken and have them answered?
i have some about guile. was wondering if by any chance they could intergrate it so that we can air throw and/or keep juggling with normals after my flash kick fadc connects. and what his buffs and nerfs are
thanks for the update
Ditto on the Sakura bit. Definetly loving the reduction on the fireball recovery and buff to her air hurricane. Good stuff all aroud.
@ 11 I think you're being a bit harsh. I think the nerfs are propper. I think the only reason why Fuerte is so low in tier is because he's not used much. Most mid to high level players I've seen play with ElF beasts. He's too ambiguous and is hard to defend from a rushdown player, since his attacks are 50/50. I think the fixes are proper. Blashemy for cursing Ono; he's a god among men.
@#11
Do you guys realize that Ono is not a game designer? He doesn't control game adjustment or even what characters are in the game. There are separate people whose whole job is to balance and tweak the game.
Ono is a producer: he schedules work, handles the budget, deals with media and fans.
The El Fuerte nerfs are moves that people abuse a lot. None of the moves make Elf a great character anyway, they are just annoying most of the time. Shenanigans. :P
Looks like they are streamlining the characters more than they are balancing the game.
Look closely @ the Elf notes!
Every note was a nerf except his NEVER abused light punches!?
So basically instead of nerfing Akuma, Balrog, Bison, Ryu or Rufus hard, they nerf ELF for LITERALLY NO REASON!!
Jeez...EVO 2k11 is gonna be great with the same characters in the finals just like 2K10 and 2K9
Sure he's annoying but isnt the point is to make characters more fun!? How are people supposed like a character that the company CLEARLY doesnt like!
Ryu can still juggle into Ultra and Ken his own shoryuken.
I hope Makoto still doesnt pose after her whiff Karakusa.
@ 28
Yeah, people abuse them a lot, but do you realize that is all ELF has? he has no combos (the only one, RSF, is really hard to do), low stamina, and deals damage basically by poking.
I don't even use him, but I have a friend that does, and trust me, once you figure out all his tricks, he basically has no chance against most of the cast.
@Mr_Clack
Wow man, maybe you should complain more. I hear it helps. /sarcasm
But in all seriousness, even though they are nerfs, I bet they arent even that significant other than the U2. Adding recovery to some specials probably just means 1-2 frames. not even noticeable. So quit your crybaby act. No one here even cares about you or fuerte. Go QQ somewhere else.
To the people that disagree with the ELF nerfs...
I guess Capcom hates Mexicans more than we thought.
I mean he's not played a TON online and he is rarely seen in tourney's esp. finals...I really, really, really dont see any point in nerfing ANYTHING on him but Capcom found a few ways!
(Spits in the Battle Director's FACE!!!)
"Hey you know that move Elf has that hardly anybody complains about? Let's nerf it!"
"Hey, ELFs Ultra is too good! We cant have people using that as much as OUR BOY Ryu! NERF IT!"
(Leaves a pile of feces on their door step!)
Why did they give Cody such useless buffs except LK 3 frame start up, cody's normals are better than the knife so why would they increase the range at which you can pick it up, more juggle ability on toward + HK -_- I barely even use that to apply damage just to confuse people and get closer, ex criminal is only good for that extra stun and the invicibility sucks on it not even worth mentioning.
WHY CAPCOM ? WHY?
YES! Sakura buffed!
i might use her as second main, i like her now for fun too but she could use some buffs
oh my god next week ibuki, please not nerfed. F*CK capcom if ibuki got nerfed
but i bet they nerfed her because noobs complained about her damage
I saw Fuerte's picture before reading any nerfs and knew things were going to be bad. Cringe-worthy.
Fuerte in AE will be a miracle worker to get any wins at all.
Glad i switched out to Cody, he got some interesting buffs...
good, but kind of odd. More knife pickup range?
Wow alot of mediocre players complaining as if these changes will affect them placing top 8 at evo lol. Every incarnation of SF has nerfs and buffs, since the beginning, just calm down, and work around it period. It's ridiculous how much whining is going on. You guys nag more than women.
I remember reading an article from a good ryu player (Air?) that had the Fuerte matchup set at 8-2 Fuertes favor especially if TKD was playing. If you play against someone that mains fuerte, and has learned his safe tortilla setups, uses the crossup jumping fierce well and can do RSF reps and mix in low kicks, sweep or a run>m.kickxxsuper (among other antics), then you know how good of a character fuerte really is. He is a fantastic character, and I think as long as the recovery on these moves isn't insane, then they are fair. The damage nerf of U2 is completely fair.
Gouken buffs, do it!
The Chun nerfs don't seem like anything big. Shouldn't she have been nerfed harder? She's one of the best characters in the game and they didn't do much to her.
I don't get what they were trying to accomplish with the Chun nerfs. She got almost no changes at all.
wow...i don't get these changes...I don't see Chun Li players winning any majors...so why is she too strong?!... I'm just starting to feel Capcom makes random changes just for heck of making the game feel "different"
Please make the bottom tier character better!!
Hmmm only the biggest whiner of them all complains about my comment. Man up, play with your character, and master him. I'm a Ryu player, they nerfed him bad, I still play with ryu regardless of how bad he's nerfed, just like i play him in 3s. Sagat was hit with the nerf bat hard aswell, he's my secondary. Lift up your skirt and find a pair. This is perhaps the most balanced street fighter ever, yet the n00bs come in droves to complain. So salty, stay free : D
I'm kinda pissed out about the elf nerfs. Like i guess the light punch frame buff is nice, but it seems like the no invincibility propeller, much nerfed ultra 2 and his guacamole much more punishable seems kinda uneccessary. It would matter if he was top tier, but he is way bottom. It's probably good that chun got a few nerfs, but nothing that seems like its going to ruin her. I'm glad that sakura keeps getting some buffs, considering how she was in her alpha days, her ssf4 is just pretty sad. I'm glad Cody improved some too, always a fan.
The Sakura buffs where good the only nerf she really could have been that crouching Fierce Punch that thing is godlike.
All moves that players find annoying are being nerfed so it should be no surprise El Fuerte's got nerfed too.
Blanka Ball's landing distance, Ken's light SRK, Air Tatsumaki's distance, Cammy's TK Cannon Strike.
It has nothing to do with the characters' popularity or tier list. Top players don't rely on them other than for shenanigans anyway so it's mostly the mid to lower tier players that are affected. Blame them.
@ Fuerte7
Man you are exaggerating. You make it sound SO bad, but its really not. Like others have said, using his guac to escape is never a good idea, therefore that nerf wont effect elf too much and the U2 buff is probably going to be subtle, but noticeable and besides it was OP, way good damage, way fast..come on. The only REAL significant nerf he got was the tortilla, but if that one nerf effects your game that much then I would suggest you choose a new character.
making unsafe moves simply unsafer doesn't do anything at high level since they would already get punished, I guess its to help people with slow reaction times or new players. Doesn't really make sense, but some of Ono's comments about SF for the whole family are starting to come back to me.
Cody's knife range pick up will be good for those who want to get more with the knife combos or are handy with them just waste too much time getting close.
Glad Crack kick(T+RH) got a boost also it will make it easier for me to get that SRK spamming tards
pretty sure the jab change to fuerte will allow you to link into fierce like abel. If they don't then i find that pretty stupid in comparison to the damage lost through his other moves. Time will tell though, im just excited for vipers bigger u2 hitbox, will work wonders vs the only match up i use it against!!
The tiers are already nearly obsolete.
And of course Capcom is stupid. Only a stupid company would make a great sequel to its most popular franchise. Only a stupid company would work to balance and perfect its games while providing excellent fan service.
Capcom is a failure. They should be more like SEGA and make AWESOME games like Sonic 2006.
Until now, most characters that had received nerfs also attained some buffs to soften the blow, but chun seeing only nerfs seems a bit harsh and unfounded. It is no secret that in the right hands chun is a beast, but she is nowhere near op or close to deserving of all the hate shes been receiving around here, especially with the current low number of top chun mainers.
That being said i am glad to see that the nerfs are subtle and i think she should be fine.
Gouken...Needs...Buffs...he doesn't play like a master at all. He's all defense and his pressure game is laughable. I say this as a Gouken main, not a very good Gouken main, but a Gouken main none the less. I just like playing him :) but its not as rewarding as with other players.
That nice subtle change to cody's cr. short can make a difference given the situation. Nerfing Elf's EX-grab is going a little too far in my opinion. I was hoping for a better buff to Cody's roundhouse ruffian kick since the term "wake up" is a nightmare for him. Knife buff is a welcomed addition due to the fact that its amazing for pressure and causes really high damage combos. can't wait for the next list of characters.
Wait, only Tortilla lost the invincibility? Thank good, last I heard Elf would lost all of his running moves invincibility. At least I could still get in on fireball spammers. If Quacamole Slew had more recovery, can I still use it to get close and grab people? Will that still be a viable option?
Sakura! She's gonna be the new Cammy in AE. Pfft! I don't know that yet! Anyways, it's nice to see these improvements are making it to AE.
Still I wonder... what she lacks in damage output she makes for in a strong mix-up and speed. These are pretty sweet changes, but I think she'll still have the most trouble againts turtles and grapplers.
It also sounds like that playing Chun-Li this time around will feel more special than before.
sakura looks increasingly scary. i hate those mixups! ;)
looking forward to seeing Gouken's changes. finally cracked 6300BP with him, and feeling like I could get up around 7k on current form. If only I could land his goddamned crouch HP->palm combos properly to punish, I would be far scarier. For some reason I just CANNOT time those right... (though EX palm->tatsu is fine) :\
Lets see; in an ideal world, dive kick would hit crouching opponents again, and tatsu hit box would be a little more effective as anti-air (not that i'm expecting either of those -- but a man has to dream!)
Sagat will most likely get buffed, seeing as how he was completely dropped from competitive play. He's like N. Sagat in ST. decent character but hardly picked.
@darko_p86
Questions are being answered from the comment boards of the Japanese SSF4 website, but those are posted in Japanese, so you'd need to post them in that language. You can find a link to the site in this story.
Your best bet for English speaking members of Capcom are the Ask Capcom forums, here's a link: http://www.capcom-unity.com/ask_capco...
Getting a response there can be very hit or miss, but it's worth a shot, as that's where Capcom USA employees hang out when they respond to fans.
@98 she's a shoto in training , still hasn't learned cross up tatsu
It seems like they're pretty much just nerfing everyone...
This is just pure bullsh*t. I've been with Fuerte since the beginning and I'll tell anyone straight up who thinks these nerfs are deserved. They aren't deserved, he's never been good, he's not good in this game, winning against anyone half decent with him requires more thought than a lot of characters. Honestly these nerfs are just out of order, when characters like Chun and Bison can spam safe sh*t for days. It's basically SSF4 Gen all over again. Capcom are pathetic. Their stupidity goes beyond anything
Either i just gone mentally retarded or did #81 just say sonic 06 was an awesome game and that capcom is a failure. As a street fighter an sonic the hedgehog fan he takes most ridiculous comment of the day.
lets see guile's changes already! i suppose he will get nerfes as well, but i hope they keep it within reason. i already know scrubamania is crying for him to be nerfed.
GUILE PLAYERS!!! which nerfes would you be ok with? which would make you mad? which ones would you sacrifice for something else in return?
for me, i'd sacrifice damage to U2 with being able to air throw and/or hit with another normal attack after fk fadc since i don't use U2 at all, ...why? cuz i dont like it. guile already has one charge ultra, couldnt they have made it a little easier for a change and make it be motion? either motion up U2 or gimme my extra attack after fk fadc damn it
Guile can stay exactly the same as he is now except for one. The ONLY thing that Guile needs to be nerfed hard is his ridiculous recovery on his sonic booms. It's damn near impossible to punish. It just makes him too much of a turtle.
Everything else can just stay as is and I'll be happy.
oh well looks like chun players still don't have to work for their wins eh.
were ALL the sakura buffs neccesary ? i thought she was good in super, yh she had a few bad macthups but meh hopefully she'll be mid/high mid tier now imo the best place to be.
guile needs SB nerf and damage reduction on some normals. since they have godlike priority.
There was really no reason to nerf elfs ultra, its not like hes comboing into it or anything.
It seems like there goin out of there way to nerf some of the runaway tools but honestly now, the easiest thing to do would be to just cut down the freaking stages. THeres no reason that they should be bigger then the mvc stages.
I think all changes so far are to make characters less powerful in the game, to make all characters become more viable and so far i think they are doing a good job, even tho i am dissapointed with some of feurtes nerfs hopefully in the end it will work better for him.
also cant wait for e. honda damage nerfs, plenty of gouken buffs, slight rose u2 nerf, and slight ibuki buffs..
I want to see whether they made Sagat better or worse. Hopefully the give him back his damage which is what he was known for through out the series.
@ 62 Spaniard
I find it ridiculous how you compare Ryus and Sagats nerfs to that of Fuerte. WOw, really, you still play Ruy and Sagat? Here's an inside scoop; those two characters are still very good, and has all the tools necesary to win a game. Both of them went from being extremely strong, to still being strong. Fuerte went from being crap to being utter bullsh*t waste of a character slot
Oh wow, did Sakura get buffed or what? xD Can't wait to try her out. :D
I think a lot of you guys underestimate Elf's ability even the mainers. Elf might lose a lot of different match ups but other character match ups versus him are mostly in his favor. His mix up game is rediculous and is very difficult to punish with some characters that don't have a direct wake up option to escape or punish his moves. His frog splashes and tortia have incredible priority and his normals are actually really good (contrary to popular belief) do to so many active frames. The nerfs are not bad it's just to give lower level characters a chance to defend themselves. Elf is still elf.
So Elf users need to stop crying about the nerfs and making excuses about his lack of ability, Elf was already strong, peoiple just are not using him right. Go look at Kai.
wow as a sakura mainer all I have to say is thank you capcom I love yoi! And I love Sakura:)
@xShonuffx: his mix-ups were already negated by the fact that his damage output is really low which means it takes a really long time to beat an opponent. Plus he takes a lot of damage and will die fast.
Fuerte got f**ked. Real talk!
I wish I had the execution ability and patience to master El Fuerte.
I've played him maybe 15 times on a random pick, and must say, I get a lot of stuns, and from simple guessing games, can really panic an opponent.
I'm very unhappy they're not buffing him, however, nerf this, buff that, it won't make a major change in the long run.
I don't main El Fuerte but a friend of mine does and I really don't think nerfing him was required: even when he uses all of those tricks and traps, he still finds it almost impossible to match M. Bison or especially T. Hawk.
They nerfed ALL of his favourite moves as well. I mean, Tortilla Propeller isn't hard to counter; why nerf it?
@ 128 Kai is actually a bad example of a good Elf player if you ask me. I didn't see once at SCR that he did a safejump fierce for instance. He's good at mind games though, that's why he can get far with Fuerte, but if a mind game master like Kai actually played Akuma for instance, who has similar wheel of wake up pressure as fuerte, he'd probably consistantly place high in tournaments. Again, it's Kai that's good, not fuerte
If Capcom's intention is to make all characters viable, they'd have to go out of their way to nerf stronger characters since certain low tiers just suck monkey balls. Salty, but true.
Guile's normals are supposed to be good, he sucked in SF4 because his normals weren't that good. Let's not forget he only has two special movies.
If any particular character is too good, they know crybabies will complain. The changes above reflect that.
I am happy the Chun Li debuffs werent "nerfs" per se. Hardly anything was changed about her, and Im happy they didnt nerf Hasan-Shu. I had heard they were going to change that. Was however hoping they would buff up Ultra 2 but I guess the fact that it can be comboed into from alot of various moves, its okay as is I guess.
El Fuerte's nerfing of his Ultra was kinda unnecessary. I dont really use that character, but its really the only thing that helped his game out significantly.
Sakura getting buffs is a good thing. She is a unique character that suffered from weak attacks in my opinion. So good for that character.
Fuerte is a joke character like dan, it's not my fault you guys are taking him seriously.
Why some guys of you think that chunli is overpowerd ?
Can you explain me please .. is ot because you lose offen against chunli ?
Because i don't think that she is to strong ....
@ 138 SpaniardSRK
Congrads!
You just prove with one sentence how much of a NOOB you really are!
You already pointed out the problem most have in ELFs nerf, he was already pathetic and Capcom made him worse.
While Your Top Tier Favorites barely get touched!
@ 139
Those were in Vanilla when he was strongest (still crap) and we havent seen them (50/TKD) on the scene doing ANYTHING with him since!
I play Elf alot and noticed the nerfs they gave him in super like changes on his hitbox for his specials. It's harder to Tortilla and Splash in Super. Now if he's trapped in the corner he's gonna gonna be hit because Capcom gave his ONLY escape move more recovery when he lands so he's a sitting duck more than he already was!
Why aren't you complaining about dan? Shouldn't he get buffed? Fuerte is a comical joke character, he wasn't designed to be a competitive character.
Yes, because we all know that a 2-frame GRAB Ultra that does almost 500 damage was totally balanced and was the only thing El Fuerte had going for him.
Honestly, I'm surprised we haven't had more anti-Chun posts here. The way this community reacts to her, you'd think she was as broken as Guile...
So is the "stun" they reference to Chun-Li actual stun damage or block damage? Also, even though ELF is annoying and cheesy I really feel that he didn't deserve the nerfs since there are a bunch of characters that can avoid, evade, or punish a lot of what he does and abuses. Sakura was already good (at least Uryo made her seem awesome) so maybe she'll be even better? I never played Cody so I don't know about the changes for him. I'm dreading the changes to Rose coming up, they made her barely ok and I'm sure they'll completely destroy her 1 viable reversal, her U2...
iv already complained about the tortilla and ex guacamole nerfs but you guys are major fags if your gunna "switch" mains. go ahead and do it then we dont need you suicidal mainers who have probably switched about 10 times since vanilla
I dont know why everyone keeps saying that Sakura had weak attacks. There is a reason for that. Her combos do well over 300-350 everytime without even using meter. All she needed was more recovery on her fireball and that was it. But now with all these other buffs, I cant see her going anywhere but up. Ive played Sakura for two years now. When I hit someone with a combo it does massive damage and they then try to keep her out. If her fireball is that much better, and I read that they were also alot faster somewhere, and with her combo ablity, she is going to be very hard to fight.
Feurte nerfs, except for U2, make no sense. Not an OP character at all. Just random, annoying, etc.
@ 152
Why nerf a Ultra that made him good, they didnt nerf Balrog or Ryu's Ultras.
They should have made him better because his options were already limited and some of his stuff that should work still doesnt like Q-Bomb Release into super anywhere on screen!
He cant mash, he doesnt have a teleport, he cant escape the corner easy, I dont get it?
If someone picks Balrog, Akuma or Honda against him in Super it's already a nightmare! Now it's...
I've played Ryu and Sagat since SF2, so my characters have nothing to do with tier lists, (ryu and N.sagat are mid tier), has to do more with nostalgia. Clack, you complain more than my woman, get better or play halo like everyone else. SF isn't a team game, your failures are your own fault
whew, I'm glad Chun avoided any heavy nerfs.
I think the stun was referring the the actual stun her cr.hk did on hit, as measured by the invisible stun meter.
I don't understand the Chun hate... nobody really cared about her normals and options when she was B tier in SF4... and suddenly when she was top tier everyone noticed how good she was and now they want her to be nerfed...
I never understood why "top tier" automatically meant "broken."
but I'm just happy to know that the nerfs won't affect my playstyle with her at all.
@151
She needed all the help she could get... There is a reason why the best sakura player in the world refuses to use her in tournaments. On paper her goood combo damage is great.... But try doing that against an equally skilled ryu or guile player... Hearing you say she didn't need buffs makes me think you dont even play her.
@156
the reason she struggled had nothing to do with what she had, it had to do with the fact that defensive play is just better overall and that doesnt favor her risk vs reward gameplay.
I doubt Capcom is ever going to make the game truly balanced. Just gotta except that some characters will always be lower tier. Also technically almost every character is viable but the odds are more favourable to some than others. If you are really lucky and dedicated even Makoto can win tournaments. Just ask Justin Wong and NinjaCW. Too bad for Hakan though. Haha.
Hating based on tiers is absolutely the wrong way to go as tier don't tell you anything about the characters and the way people play them. Hating based on popularity is exactly the same thing, IMHO.
If juri's pinwheel puts the other player in a juggle state like jumping medium punch does that mean you can now land U2 after pinwheel like you can a jumping medium punch? That would be a lot like chun's juggle to U2.
I pray Capcom will buff Hakan. You can't really miss, anything, make his oiled up state more powerful, increase the range of his command throws, I don't care. You will never see a Hakan in a tournament until something happens.
Oh, and forgive my ignorance, but Vega has more recovery frames for Cosmic heel, but then they say if the opponent blocks the tip it is even, I thought that Cosmic Heel was already punishable on block. Can anyone elaborate?
SF novels? those novels are not capcom official, and have nothing to do with the official storyline.
CHiNeSeDrAgOnST
That's the problem though, in vanilla she was B tier and this was only due to sagat and rufus and boxer being above her or else she would of been higher she wasnt poor at all but for some strange reason capcom still gave her a bucket load of boosts, and now her normals are busted. Like it or not it's the truth. some normals need damage OR piority reduction.
VERY happy with Cody's changes. If you don't use the knife or his crack kick as a serious Cody player, you are doing yourself a disservice. the Cr.lk is awesome will have tons getting him out of corner pressure from rog and stuff. I doubt I'll ever play the AE but it is cool to hope for these to make their way to PS3 and XB.. The only slight let down was the supposed walk speed increase he had. But that's fine.
FOOOLS
if i remember correctly, her boosts in SSF4 were U2, st.mp and df.lk and cr.mk right?
U2 juggle does like NO damage, st.mp is nerfed in damage and df.lk is nerfed in speed/hitbox-ish.
so no one will complain anymore?
@165
Thats exactly the problem with her. SHe was really goood in sf4 but since sagat was so fadc ultra'ing people for half life it made her look weak and they give her too much. The best thing they should have done was just scale her normals back to sf4 and leave her alone. Honestly it just shows that capcom doesnt noe wtf there doin.
Capcom japan has no affiliation with Udon, all official storylines are decided by capcom japan. Have a seat n00b, you're in school.
NO MORE STEAMY Turds SH--Tn on my sakura! i just about gave up playing her on xbox live. the trolling made it very hard to develop a play style of my own 4 her but these buffs totally complement what im working toward!...
P.S. ELFUERTE totally deserves the NERF STICK...you guys just don't see wats bad about it...U2 had instant hit( BAD ) and the the infinite (got really annoying.
P.P.S. know you fuerte players have to truly dedicate that time like I've dedicated my 2 and 1/2 years toward sakura.---HA FUKIN HA. ^_^
@darko_p86 so let me get this straight you want to be able to air throw after hitting somone...so combo...into throw. Thats a stupid idea. Also fk FADC normals whats the point? Seriously tell me what would be the point?
Command ultra will never happen for guile would be too broken plus any scrub could make an ultra combo for annoying damage see chun2.
an ElF fight goes as follows run up body splash-> did it hit? (yes) No.-> Body splash (propeller)did it hit? (yes) !hands infinite! rinse repeat
Sakura might probably come close to vanilla Ryu if her damage is increased and a full distance Hadouken.
@Jerm
Alot of the time the term overpowered gets used by people who lose to a character and find comfort in justifying it like that, on this site iv'e read posts claiming almost every character has something overpowered or broken.
Chun has 20 matches where she has a 6-4 advantage, 5 matches at a 4-6 disadvantage and 7 matches at 5-5.
Even if the tier was incorrect it wouldn't change to drastically. She's just like Ryu and Guile having a good set of tools for 90% of situations and never having to face an unwinnable situation. But those same set of tools can make her frustrating to fight and seem overpowered compared to characters who don't have an answer for everything.
Also someones playstyle can make another character seem overpowered as well. I play Cody and lets say I fight Dhalsim and my play syle is heavy zoning, well i'm gonna lose that fight bad. Lets say I'm a footsie based Cody if I run ito a Ken then he's gonna win that battle. If I fight a Zangief and try to get in his face and overpower him I'll get destroyed. So you see some people may play in a certain way or with a different stlye and everyone evolves their game and adapts at a different pace. Sometimes a character can seem impossible to copete with untill you find the right mindset and approach.
Kimmy_13
yeah i do want be abale to throw and/or be able to hit my opponent with a normal such as c. fierce punch after i execute a fk fadc! i like to be able to keep comboing and juggling. so what, is that so wrong or so hard for you to understand? stupid idea? well it may be stupid to you but are you trying to diss me because i like it and you do not? simply stating that a random idea is "stupid" without even explaining WHY it is stupid (in your view) is completely the wrong way to get your response backed up by someone else. i may agree with you IF you explain to me and IF you convince me that the obove stated changes which i have suggested would not be practical in a match. HOWEVER, i will NEVER agree with you that any move or any idea is just "stupid" cuz you just happen to say so. U2 may never become command NOT because YOU thinnk Guile would be broken (or however you wanna describe the excuse which displays your lack of talent), but because the battle director may feel that a charging motion is suitable for guile since he ALWAYS had charge specials. i would like to have U2 as motion, because i would like it that way. see i just answered an upcomming question so you can save your precious little time telling someone else that their idea is stupid without even explaining why it is stupid in the first place. picture me being the creator of Street Fighter when it first came out yee ago. and i would say "hey im going to give ryu the hadouken move!" then you come along and say, thats stupid. but look what ryu is today. ryu is NOT and NEVER will be Ryu without his hadouken. and all who play im love that move. I do! now..., did you get that straight?
fuerte will still make turtle soup out of all these "pros" online HAHAHA.
i am avoied by 74% of people online, and i don't really play anything but SSF4 and i get "nice adon," but never "nice fuerte," so i guess he's the reason i get avoided, and i love it.
my goal in AE will be to raise that 74% to 80%.
f--- these nerfs, i will still make all you crybabies whine like there's no tomorrow.
@ 186
If you just splash all day like Chris Hu did then most will think you suck.
If you play him well like he's supposed to then you will get that 'nice' title you want so dearly!
My Elf was so good most people said I was better than TKD or 50yen, but my problem is...I know Elf has weaknesses against many of they other characters!
I use moves and combos most dont with him so I get alot of praise for winning w/o run splash!
@ 42 Burn: "I bet they arent even that significant other than the U2. Adding recovery to some specials probably just means 1-2 frames. not even noticeable"
... WOW ARE YOU SERIOUS? NOT EVEN THAT SIGNIFICANT/NOTICEABLE? Apparently you've NEVER used el fuerte b4. Nerfing ELF in any way is like taking $5 dollars away from a poor person and telling them not to worry, its not significant. I wanted to start using him but this is just discouraging..
The loudest voices to be heard for nerfs/buffs are the online beginners/pre-intermediates.
Ex. easier to punish;
blocked blanka ball
ken lp. shoryuken
fuerte normal and ex guacamole
abel breathless
single best ex. of buffs for beginners;
viper u2 bigger hitbox(only viper buff)-no pro uses u2, just a more lenient setup than u1.
the higher level players that play for more than just a few hours a day are the minority.
omg cant freakin wait, Sakura? stronger? im loving it!
chun isnt op, she just needs tweaks
her footsie's combined with kikouken pressure can keep 1/2 of the cast out with ease, she shi*s on the 1/2 the cast frankly when shes low on health she can turtle out of loss with ease, i could go on but it's long. my point is many of the boosts she got she never needed she was upper middle tier in vanilla and that was only because of bad macthups being above her. The same goes for bison, not saying he's OP but a physco crusher that crosses up inst needed.
Why didnt Capcom buff codys walking speed, make the ex criminal upper wake up safe on every character, faster on getting up off any knock down and give him an ex knife that goes through regular fireballs or eats ex moves? and for Rose just make her close standing medium kick an overhead, thats all i want...With cody i'm tired of the scrubby shotos and adons owning because cody gets up so damn slow that he resets himself...and with rose seems like all i can do again'st charge characters is chip them to death?! i'm just saying
Kinda funny now that Sakura got buffs, their are people who are gonna 'main' her. To those who stuck beside sakura (even when gettin ur ass whooped) awesome. To those new sakura 'mainers' out there I just gotta say this...BWAHAHAHAHA!! To those who'll stick by El Fuerte (nerfs & all) good goin y'all. To those jumpin ship...BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
@darko_p86
OKay i'm goign to explain why throwing after fk fadc is stupid. The other person would be in a juggle state and like hit stun you can't grab somone like this learn street fighter basics retard. Sayign I have no talent it, my skill or your skill is not being called into question here. I will explain why juggling normals is stupid for guile. It would stop the knock down. FK fadc c.hp the oppent wouldn't get knocked down which i think would be a waste of 2 meters and therefor never used. Its notliek guile would become a good reset and mixup character because of it. With u2 i was trying to say it would never ever happen. Also that bit about ryu's fireball wtf man. I;m not suggestion guile loses a move just saying he will never have a motion move in SF4 which came out more than over a year ago retard -_-. Don't tell me to explain things when you cant't get your facts straight.
Thanks so much capcom. Chun li didn't change much. And for all chun hater , stop saying her is the beast in ssf4 , nt much chun li players won in tournament, even in the godgarden nemo has lose alot too so who say her over powered.... If you want overpowered let talk about guile, ryu , bison damage shiiiiit..... Forget to mention cammy cannon strike spam, chun can't even much once close.. So think before but bulls comment
Kimmy_13
i was saying in case you failed to notice, that they could make it so that when Guile performs a fk fadc, that the opponent is not in a juggling state just for that particular execution to allow a throw ONLY after fk fadc. i know all about street fighter basics you Nazi scrub. and i know it ain't possible in the current state but with all the changes being made, I'm sure they can integrate this one. again if you don't like it cuz it just looks stupid to you then you can just fu(k off cuz I'm tired of trying to explain dumba$$es like you (which come in great numbers lately) that i want it cuz i just want it. WHAT, is this a dictatorship! NO you cant have it cuz i dont like it. sorry Mr. wizard. what crawled up your a$$?
and the part about the opponent not being knocked down after fk fadc c.fierce, that's the whole point WHY i want it. i like to keep going with the mind games. you see i use guiles zoning ability, utilizing his s.boom and crouching fierce, and it works great. if you don't play him then don't event TRY to tell me sh!t, cuz the lack of your mental ability prevents your insignificant little mind to comprehend just what I'm talking about.
darko_p86
No state in street fighter allows somone to be hit and/or thrown apart from normal standing or crouching so combo into normal throw air throw wont happen get that through head thats why I said it was a stupid idea. All the changes being made? I doubt they'd create a new juggle/throwable air state just for guile and then just change a few frames for other characters.
Wow you really are full of your self aren't you? alot of people WANT things for their characters but you're idea has by far been the dumbest. You just seem to hate me where I just don't like your ideas I disagree with you and that makes you think you're on some higher intellectual plain to me?
You obviously are just a retard that wants to make guile just another braindead character. He is fine how he is he doesnt need changes and espicly doesn't need a whole new state made just for him because he's so low tier. You scrub.
@Kimmy_13
ha ha you crack me up. i requested those changes to have guile unique in his own way for a change. all he ever had was 2 specials. im not asking for another one but i would like this. and i know... spare me the part how you know most if not all about street fighter, i don't give a rats ass WHAT you know! not once did i say i hated you, i just don't like your way you present your disagreement and you being a smarta$$. had you come off as just saying that wouldn't be good instaed of you "thats stupid, this is stupid. you're retarted!" i would have been much more nicer to u but YOU chose to go down this path. and now you cant handle it? gitouttaheye (italian mafia style). i better stop before you start complaining to catalyst and me being banned cuz of your a$$ HELL NO! goodbye kid
@Mr_Clack #187
LOLOLOL you snobby ass douchebag!! hahaha
how is fuerte "supposed" to be played? huh? lol since you designed the game and you know everything. hahha
my my my. you have no idea.
Stop crying about el fuerte everyone.
Quacamole Slew: Good nerf, el-fuerte shouldnt have good escape options(from corner), he is already hard to catch
Tortilla Propeller: Its still a good move. Its purpes is if they are standing blocking(enemy think el-f are going for a slam), and it still do that purpes.
Ultra 2: I love you capcom, best nerf ever. this piece of shït ultra was so fûcking overpowered. Easy to land and to powerful, could be done at random and is hard to punish.
Sucks for El Fuerte he's one of my abused chars. His Guac Slew didn't need nerfing since he usually lands into reversal type moves then sometimes into ultra. His tortilla propeller didn't need nerfing either it was the only alternate mixup to Tostada Press. Ultra 2 wasn't OP to the max, it wasn't like T-Hawk/Zangief's Ultras which leave you no chance to jump away. I agree with a damage nerf but only up to 160-170. Seems like these nerfs are just based on annoyances exactly the game itself. I bet if an update after this one hits us, Cody will lose the Cr.Lk buff due to the easiness of cr.lp cr.lp cr.lk criminal upper/ruffian kick,Fei Long may lose st.lp because of easy combos into rekka or fooling the opponent to do anything will be a lot easier.Vega may lose cr.mk starting frames because now people will get hit by cr.mk cr.mp ex izuna a lot more times. Well I guess it's up to us ElF mainers to annoy people with easier jabs and continue using U2 to get the longer ultra animation.
Those Sakura changes are SWEET. Her poke game needed some solid tunning. El's UC2 was too good for an unltra, crazy fast startup and crazy damage with really short recovery, easy to setup and even if you know it's coming it's hard to punish. I knew there was something wrong with tortilla when every time I tried to poke and got thrown by it. El is no where near "low" tier it's just that most people can't be bothered to play technical characters (Viper, Gen etc) and went for those that are much simpler but effective ones.(Shoto, Rufus, Sagat etc you name it) It is just lame to see people shouting "El is low tier he doesn't deserve nerfs" when you know in fact he isn't.
@ 156
And here we go with another lesson of "teaching dumb people to read". *sigh* I didnt say she doesnt need the buffs. If you were reading anything I said I said that she is going to be hard to fight. Why wouldnt I want these buffs? I played her for two years. Thats this number: 2. Read it again. Normally I would eat you up for this dumb post you put up, but since Ive met other SF players like you who read at a low level, I'll let it ride.
F U K you capcom for the crap youre pulling on elf. ive mained him since vanilla and i agree with the ult2 damage nerf, but start up and hit box? More recovery on tortilla? one of our only wake up options! Am i suppose to jab my way out of sh it now that i have a better jab?!? bunch of idiots over at capcom
@ bokosaki 209
Because sakura has limited wake up options doesn't change the fact that ELF has little to none as well..
To make his wakeup option even more useless is just plain senseless. Changes like these really makes you wonder how this helps to balance the game.. then again, perhaps we'll NEVER figure out how Capcom thinks.. they must have a good reason.. right?? /sarcasm
well i personally will stick to maining El fuerte the guac nerf was not needed its already easy to punish and tortilla lost invincibility its just like fajita buster now but i dont agree with the ultra 2 nerf capcom really fcked over Elf now the game is not balanced at all an example is ken is getting major buffs fck ken fck capcom i will still main elf to the end
bokosaki ur a di p shi t. elf and sak are nothing alike! elf doesnt do well with people in his face where in saks case! thats wat u want.
Elf will still be Elf but losing that invincibility. I want to stick around to see just how easy it will be to punish, i did notice something in Endless battle today about Elf but im not gonna whin about it and c.lp will be so easy to cancel before rsf thats great.
@ CMAyhem, I totally agree man. People talk like if you pick Chun li you can just murder everyone, when it really takes a lot of time and skill to become a contender with her. Chun-Li is not a broken character, people that use her just put a lot of effort into her. Im not claiming greatness or anything but I am pretty good with Chun-Li, but I used to get my butt kicked constantly until I finally learned how to pull wins off with her lol.
So basically the buff they gave her in ssf4 has been taken away.... great, just great