Nyoronoru noticed that the rules for the Super Street Fighter 4 portion of this year's Evolution Fighting Game Championship have been posted by Mr. Wizard. Here they are, along with an explanation.
• If one of the players asks for a blind pick, then Player 1 must tell the judge his character and ultra selection. Player 2 then must pick his characters, and after that Player 1 must pick the characters he told the judge. Everything is blind pick.
• As far as the winner switching ultras, since ultras can counter the other player's ultras, the winner [of a match] will NOT be allowed to switch up any ultra. There should be no advantages given to the player that already is up a game in the set.
• A perfect example of ultras countering ultras, is Seth vs. Chun-Li, if Seth picks Ultra 1, Chun-Li can punish Seth's Ultra 1 when blocked from full screen away, even though in many player's eyes, [her] Ultra 2 is way better.
This is worth pointing out because Evo's rules are often followed by the fighting game community at large.
It was around the time that Evo banned Akuma in Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo HD Remix that he was banned in most major tournaments as well, so it may become common place to see these rules implemented in most of the top competitions.
respectable i think. i hated playing vanilla with my friend cuz he always counter charactered my character. it gets lame real quick. >:[
@1
yeah I get where you're coming from but its fair seeing how some Ultras would counter the **** out of another. Example Guy Ultra 2 vs Akuma Ultra 1. Guy could EX Run through fireballs but Akuma has great offense and faster pokes so Ultra 1 would be better. Also Akuma could buffer Raging Demon while Guy is running so double blind would be solid.
this is 100% cool with me, counter picking is whack
People, the loser can still switch Ultras to counter the winner's selection. It's only the winner who's locked in.
I guess what I would want to see is that both people submit their character choice to the judge without knowing their opponent's character, then are told the opponent's character, then submit their ultra selection. I think counter-picking ultras with ultras shouldn't happen, but you should absolutely be able to counter-pick characters with ultras.
I'm fine with the winner having to keep their ultra set-up, but for the initial game, players should be able to choose their ultra suited to who they're fighting.
It's not hard to figure out what character i use so.... meh. doesnt affect me.
I think the winner being locked in is bad. You should have the choice of using whatever utility Ultra before every game. If I am playing Cody and you switch from a non-fireball to a fireball character I definitely want the choice to switch to Last Dread Dust before the game begins.
I think this rule just promotes imbalance and counter-picking after the round starts, rather than suppresses it. #10 is a prime example. If someone has an anti-fireball ultra, then just swap to a non-fireball character for one game. If each character can swap ultras, but the winner has to stick with their character, they're still locked in to some extent, but not susceptible to complete counter-picking.
The EVO organizers are fighting against a key mechanic that the devs put into the game to increase balance.
The whole point of multiple ultras was for character specific match ups as ono intended... this is stupid
Goodness sake what has happened to the fighting game community? You can't even pick a character or ultra now without it being considered unfair? People should be prepared to be counter picked from the beginning. Since when was counter picking wrong? This is ridiculous. You can't even switch ultra? That's taking it too far.
What's the problem with the winner needing to keep his Ultra? If he loses the next match, then it's his turn to counter the other person's ultra.
Lets the match go back and forth. But winning the first match still has value because say the 2 players keep alternating wins because of counterpicking (let's just assume for a second the counterpicking is so important it determines the winner), come a 2-2 tie it's the winner of the first match's turn to counterpick.
So there you go.
retarded. the ENTIRE POINT of multiple ultras is so you can habe a better shot at some of your bad matchups. think about it, that's what the game promotes right now -- you choose your character, then if you both wait and don't just button mash your way through selection you have a chance to see each other's character and pick an appropriate ultra. why in would you want to turn that into a random lottery? dumb. looks like they've missed the point completely.
this is why I'm not a fan of 2 ultras, they should of did something different than what they did.
They wouldn't have to make these added rules about ultras if they were both available at the same time. Why did they make them selectable? They have different commands. Why not have access to both in a match? That just baffles me.
@#18 because that would just make the game less balanced rather than more balanced. The choice of an ultra essentially gives the game 70 character choices, which allows for easier counter picking, which makes the game more balanced. You couldn't give a character a strong anti-fireball ultra if they had a strong juggle ultra if you could use them at the same time, because then they would be just way too imbalanced against fireball characters.
1. First round is blind select because knowing which character your opponent is using could be a one-sided advantage.
2. Winner doesn't get anymore advantage. Allowing the winner to choose his ultra allows him to fix bad match-ups and gain back whatever advantage he might have lost against counter-picking.
Giving the character better matchups has nothing to do with counter-picking actually. The better way to see it is as 70 different characters instead. These rules are also consistent with past Evo rules.
You guys are right, the winner who's up a set and already won a match should be able to counterpick their ultra after already winning a match. It's not like they can counterpick back if they lose the next match right? Oh wait that's right they can.
@15
Hey guess what? Blind pick is something that you ask for in case you don't want to be counterpicked. I'm sure you'd love it if you were counterpicked straight from the first match right? That way even if you counterpick in the next match and win that person can just counterpick you back. The purpose of counterpicking is to give you a better chance of winning after you've already lost to somebody using the character you're most comfortable with.
Counterpicking an Ultra and counterpicking a character are totally separate things. You only get one Ultra and the only factor that an Ultra can usually dominate is fireballs. The next available counter is jumpers.
I want matchups to be tighter based on character tools.
Counterpicking an Ultra or character is the same if they both give an advantage.
For example in the Cody Vs Ryu, you might usually go for Final Destruction if you want to combo but if you know that your opponent is Ryu, you will go for Dread Dust instead while the Ryu player can gain no advantage by picking either Ultra. Just by having the Ultra charged, Cody would have shut down Ryu's fireball game. That's an advantage in the first match!
And now you know.
What a dumbass rule. The developers made two ultras for every character so that their playstyles will be different for each and so that each character can take care of their bad match-ups with an alternative ultra. What's wrong with the system that the developers put in place?
@29 - Err...Seth is a really good character and has huge advantages over a few characters in the game..
@27
If you honestly think that Ryu is nothing without fireballs you should really relearn Street Fighter IV in general. An ultra is an advantage in one use, where a character is an advantage in an entire playstyle! The difference is massive, and your lack of understanding in this worries me.
It should be blind character, ultra matched to character, blind ultra to ultra.
What I mean is that both players should secretly choose a character, then be told what their opponent chose. They should then both secretly pick ultras, then fight.
You shouldn't be able to choose ultra A because your opponent chose ultra B, but you should be able to say "I'm fighting FighterA, I should use my Ultra B."
I think a patch to the game should really include a secret select for ultra. Something like "Press A for ultra 1, B for ultra 2" then you're told what ultra they chose during the loading screen. I think that would really be the ideal system.
Also if those rules really apply, everyone will just force blind picks on every match and then you're forced to pick a character with an Ultra that works in every matchup, on other words everybody will pick Ryu/Sagat ect.
It's sad that Mr.Wizard is so stubborn and can't see his mistake.
well it should be made that way...
Before the match starts u and your opponent say to the judge your characters, after that both players are told wich character the opponent picked up, THEN they tell the judge wich ultra they will pick...
FU*KIN SIMPLE
the person who made these rules make my brain hurts OMFG!!!
seeing as how arcade 3rd strike locks the winner to his character but they can change super arts, i can only assume arcade SSF4 will behave the same way. besides, ranked online is blind character, but not blind ultra. you can see your opponent's character before you choose your ultra. as such, this rule is just plain dumb.
the whole blind ultras thing is really stupid because then what is the fuukin point.
in 3rd strike it barely matters because even though everyone has 3 supers, one of those was most of the time way better then the others. Especially for those characters that were actually played at tournaments.
So tell me, if your opponent wants to blind pick, do you a) a Character that has two very matchup dependent ultras and you have to blindly guess which will be the right one? or b) pick a character with an Ultra that works against everybody, like Ryu?
That's why Ryu, Sagat, Boxer ect players will be heavily favoured with theses rules.
So say if they picked Zang and you picked Seth, you'd want to pick ultra 1 since being in the air is suicide for Zang even with ultra 2 since Seth has Yoga arms but against T.hawk(which some one in a tourney might switch to) Ultra 2 would be the way to go being that all of T hawk's moves to get in on a character make him off the ground
lol I actually agree with this if you win you should keep the same ultra. It's amazing how quickly spoiled players become.
I agree with people saying blind character select THEN blind ultra select. Avoids character counterpick AND allows for situational ultras againts certain matchups, which was the whole point for the new ultras.
But then again, I'll never be at EVO so it doesn't affect me, haha.
I like the idea of blind select but the pre-select ultras is a complete bullsh!t move. Defeats the entire fu(kin purpose of having 2 goddamn ultras. The loser gets to choose one but the winner doesn't? Is that some sort of penalty for winning? "There should be no advantages given to the player that already is up a game in the set" GTFOutta here....
Daigo picked guile sonic hurricane against valles ryu, then flash kick ultra vs wongs rufus..
Changing ultra is not countering sqaut, its how u play againts a character, not being able to change will mess up ur entire game cuz ur ultra is useless..
Like many others pointed out, the games 2 ultra was meant for character specific matches, this is hella dumb
This rule doesn't make any sense. The whole point of characters getting 2nd Ultra's is so that they can get help in their matchups. Picking Ultra's will just be a guessing game. It will only ensure that characters with 1 really good Ultra and a Useless Ultra will have better success.
lol @ at all these wanky 'rulez' for the supposedly uber balanced SSFIV!! xD
This franchise is dead in the eyes of the hardcore. -_-
@Ex_Ein
true to a degree, but true blind ultra picking would involve you not knowing your opponent's character. you see the character, pick the best ultra for the match up. blind means you cant see your opponent's selection, when you can see their character its not truly blind.
Counter-picking can be annoying, but I don't think these rules are the correct approach. If too much emphasis is placed on match-ups, players will too often attribute the loss/victory of a player to bad match-ups rather than the difference in skill between the two players. Furthermore, no ultra perfectly counters another. For example in the Cody (Last Dread Dust) vs Ryu (either ultra) case, while Cody's LDD can counter projectiles, it isn't useful as an anti-air (usually), and one can't combo into it. In fact as a Cody player, I find Final Destruction more useful against projectile users since only FD can be linked, but there are other means of evading projectiles.
Mr. Wizard is big fat dumbass. Everyone knows it (even other Evo planners) and talk about his stupid decisions behind his back. But there's not much you can do. This is the dumb ass stuff that is going to let a new national level major take over one day. How can Mr. Wizard be so damned stubborn and blind not realize he is just hurting the community here, and actually HELPING counter pickers? Seriously. Ultra switching was made FOR balance purposes.
man i had to sign in just for this
its as simple as this. if you play bad, it doesn't matter what ultra you pick cause you will still lose. if your good then you can either block and counter against,or dodge the ultra in the first place. if i pick makoto and play horrible and eat a ryu ultra 1, im not going to blame it on my opponent picking ultra 1. im blaming it on my ass backwards skills. people just need to stop complaining and start working on their skills and executions with their characters. and i gaurantee that at least 60% percent of the people that comment on the rules won't even go to EVO so TITS or GTFO.
and so what if someone counter picks or counter ultra picks you? yea, its annoying but you just have to deal with it and tighten your game. i play juri and makoto and there are so many disadvantages with them but i blame my lost on my crappy ass skills, not the fact that someone pick a better opponent against me.
and i don't care how many people go complain and call me a scrub or that i don't know how to play or understand the rules. facts are facts, you lose because of your bad skills and thats the harsh truth.
@shiryu22
I'm not but I'm not see logic behind choice and if you look at the forum some people agree
and
@FMG
http://shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t...
you could pick SAs
4s14m4n
What are you talking about I'm complaing cause if I'm whooping some ones ass in a tourny but they switch characters and I know the ultra I have then is pretty much useless against them I can't switch to it because of these rules.
other turnies adopt EVO rules so even if we're not going to EVO we'll still be affected by BS like this
There is no real counter for most characters
ex: Ryu VS Blanka Blanka can counter out the hadoken and thats pretty much it so just dont use hadokens and you can counter out some of blankas moves so all in all blind picking wont change a lot but being stuck with the same ultra might be annoying.
@Ex_Ein
i don't want to make a big deal and start a flame war but all im saying is if your good it shouldn't matter what ultra people pick against you because you should know how to play in unfavorable situations and that if you lose because someone else picked a ultra against your character then train harder and find a way to win in that situation for next time because people will always find themselves in unfavorable situations. its almost natural to expect someone to counter pick you in some aspect. you just have to deal with it as it comes and learn from it.
thats all im saying. and if you know the rules are gonna be at other tournaments then you should also know how to deal with them because you should have previous experience with the rules.( "you " implying no one, just using you in general.)
I tend to somewhat favor the aurguement that these "rules" tend to impede the overall ideas oringally envisioned by the developers.
However, if they must exsist at all then perhaps an "all or nothing" attitude could be applied. The first match set taking place with no regulation. Character AND ultra couter-picking permitted. Going on to the second and each set therafter, the loser having the option to tell the judge that they either would like the next set to proceed with a blind character select for both players (each player telling the judge secretly their selection before input) or to proceed with the set under normal selection (counter-picking again permitted). The interesting twist being if the loser chooses the blind option, then the winner after being notified that the blind option has been selected must immediately tell the judge ultra one or two before character selection takes place.
Blind character... blind ultra... both players take part and must give the judge a selection before the next set takes place. Loser chooses character and the winner chooses ultra - but it is ALL done "blind".
Stop saying cause I suck and I use bad characters, everyone else has to think like me rather than use the ultra in their matchup. Picking Hosenka or Heartless (I think that's the name of Abel's U1) shuts down Ryu's fireball game. But if you don't know whether to pick it or not, then you're kinda stuffed. Of course better players will always win, but it's being ignorant saying Daigo will win evo with Sakura + Haru Ranman.
It's kinda disadvantaged to be a chun player atm. I mean it's like losing your shoryuken. You can say a good Ryu player can still win without it, but it's a staple part of his movepool.
@Ex_Ein
http://evo2k.com/playerGuide/gamerule...
Erm, no, you couldn't.
And if you'd have read Mr Wizard's response further down that same page you would have seen it for yourself.
i can understand blind select for both characters, but since the game itself lets you choose ultras after character selection, evo should leave it that way.
Capcom > evo
I'm not a huge fan of blind picking ultras. Blind-picking characters is reasonable, but the point of multiple ultras, at least for a major part, was to close the gap in some mis-matched fights.