FallenAngel pointed out a new tier listing for Super Street Fighter 4 which appeared on this Japanese wiki site. 
A++ Sagat, Akuma,
A+ Rufus, Chun-Li
A Guile, Abel, Dhalsim, M. Bison (Dictator), Ryu, Ken, Balrog (Boxer), Ibuki, E. Honda, Akuma, Dudley
B+ Blanka, Dee Jay, C. Viper, Zangief, Seth, Rose, Cody, Juri
B T. Hawk, Adon, Vega (Claw), Cammy, Gouken
C+ El Fuerte, Hakan, Guy, Fei Long, Makoto, Sakura
C Gen, Dan
/fixed
Yeeeeah, Guile A+
Riiiight.
Then again, those Japanese players are ridiculous with him in SF4...
Incoming flood of Abel, Guile, and Rufus players on xbox live in 3...2...1...
I've been playing Guile since vanilla and I can honestly say that he is definitely not A+. B,B+ maybe but not top tier. Ryu, Sagat, and Akuma still run the show. This is way early.
Love how slow eventhubs is on the news. On a side note these tiers do nothing but cause butthurt among the fans. Wait a few months if not years for a proper tier list.
Hm. I don't necessarily agree with all of this, but it makes enough sense in general that I would accept it as the "official" list, unlike the IPlayWinner one which is crap. I know people are going to object especially to the placements of Cody, Juri, and Guy, but remember the Blanka Factor: some characters seem very strong at first, but lose their charm once people figure out exactly how their stuff can be countered. I would buy all of those three as such characters, especially Guy.
The only thing I have no choice but to call BS on is Cammy moving up while Sakura stays where she was. Cammy got a major damage nerf and her new Ultra is worthless. Sakura got no notable nerfs, a better crossup (in a game where crossups are extremely useful), and a great new Ultra (again, very important). No way are the Sakura changes insignificant, and no way in Hell is Cammy improved.
Guile A+ lol he must be getting used alot in Japan lol thats the only one I got a problem with the rest seems ok
well we must take in consideration that japanese have a different way of player compared to the other nation...no wonder we see rose B+ on jap tier list and rose D on the american tier list...but anyway I must say: stick to your favorite character, learn how to use them and you will see that tier list means nothing when you have skills
Guile - A+.......LMFAO AHAHAH HAHAHA AHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!1111!!!
Dudley - about right
Seth - about right
Guy - wow didnt think he would be that low
Cody - wow definitely surprised on that one
Blanka - even though i hate him with a passion he is definitely higher *sadly*
@15 Cammy actually got buffs along with those nerfs, her Cannon Spike is a lot safer on block then it was before, her cross up has a bigger hitbox, her spin knuckle comes out A LOT faster, her pokes have more range and Cannon Spike generally has more stun. So before you talk out your ass do some research.
THERE ARE NOOOO SUCH THINGS AS TIER....NUMBER 5 DEEJAY ON XBL
I am really ok with Abel being A tier. A+ tier? Stretching it, as much as I want it to happen, but A tier definitely.
I think Guile belongs where he's at, though. It's amazing what adjusting a charge time can do for a character.
I, as well as many others, predicted Makoto would be low tier in SSFIV because her game doesn't translate well to the zone-heavy and defensive style of SSFIV and the fireball game that it promotes.
Having played tons of Viper, and like all Viper players, I lost VERY consistently when I first picked her up and it took 200+ matches before my win rate started to turn around. With Makoto, I don't ever see that happening. Her tools are too out of place and gimped to be worth the risk involved in getting close enough to use them. Karakusa is nice against people that don't know how to keep her out, but if you want command grabs, there are characters that do it better and cause damage directly, rather than having to combo after it and hope the opponent doesn't just c.jab his way out of whatever she has planned next. Fukiage is still limited in its usage and Oroshi sucks more than it did in 3S, and since you can no longer pressure with Karakusa after a Hayate, she's no threat after a Hayate. The mystery's gone because there's no 50/50 mixup potential anymore. Girl needs buffs BIG time.
I think this one is more accurate http://iplaywinner.com/news/2010/5/13...
A: Rufus, Akuma, Abel, Dictator, Boxer, Ryu, Chun Li
B+: Ibuki, Zangief, E. Honda, Blanka, Sagat, Guile, T Hawk, Juri
B: El Fuerte, Dhalsim, Cammy, Fei Long, Ken, Seth, C. Viper
C: DeeJay, Adon, Dudley, Cody, Gouken, Claw
D: Rose, Gen, Hakan, Guy, Makoto, Sakura, Dan
This tier list is way to early, like no one's fully accomplished anything in this short amount of time...but either way I'm sticking to my three (Akuma, Balrog, Cody)
@#19/ROBODEKA_Q:
I was aware of all of those except for Cannon Spike having more stun, which doesn't really impress me any more than the others. Better pokes, okay, I'll give you that, but a subtle change doesn't make up for the hugely disproportionate damage nerf to her best move. As for the rest, what you seem to be missing is that real tier lists are based on high level play, not what works in laggy online matches against scrubs. But feel free to go win a serious tournament with her and prove me wrong. Seriously, I'd like that, Cammy is actually one of my favorite characters, but I'm just not buying this. In SFIV *skilled* turtling owned her comprehensively, and I've seen absolutely nothing to convince me that's changed.
Ok, after like what, half a month, we already have a tier list? Really? I'm not a big fan of tiers, but, can't we wait until at least I don't know, six months after it's release? It's a little early to say that Guile is THAT good, and #14 pointed out that Sakura got a lot of buffs, but she is still at the bottom of the list.
Also, because these characters have 2 ultras, some of them ten to play completely differently. So what I would like to see is how good one character is with one of there ultra and then with the other. (How good is say Ryu I vs Ryu II).
I can't say stuff about tiers yet but
dhalsim and guile are high tier now....
My BEAST will FEAST on all ya'll guile daigo wanna-be's. Bring it. I got your A+ right here!
I think that tier lists doesn't take into account player skill level. I don't mean that both players should have equal skill level, but both players actual skill level. If both players were just beginners than Ryu & Ken would probably be top tier while C. Viper and Rufus will be at the bottom. If both players were of the highest skill level, then the reverse is probably more true or less obvious.
Of course, the best tier list is one that is based on the highest skill level. Just something to think about.
This is the biggest load of crap, especially as a guile main, he is not top tier.
Just because Daigo used him and was told by Seth to play him to shut every complainer up, does not bolt him to the top.
Guile is my main and no way in hell is he top tier. B tier is being very generous. I'd say more like C tier...
@8 LOL also yeah bison is A tier that means my main is a beast
Too early for this and I think iplaywinner's list is more accurate anyway. Guile and Sagat...A+?! I'm a Chun mainer and in vanilla, Sagat caused me hell with his fast fireball zoning and high damage but he doesn't even scare me now in this game. Guile...hmm...faster SBs and a Sonic Hurricane...still not enough to threaten Chun I'd say. They both got buffs but I'd say Guile's aren't enough to elevate him to such an ambitious spot as A+.
@ 5 thats a joke, @ 30 i kinda agree---- The list is a utterly failed attempt at an assumption. I KNOW FOR A FACT GUILE IS NOWHERE NEAR THE TOP 8 SORRY GUYS HE IS JUST NOT SORRY. ABEL ABOVE RYU SORRY GUYS NOT HAPPENING JUST NOT ENOUGH BUFFS TO BE. I CAN NAME THE TOP 8 EASY RYU, SAGAT, ROG, AKUMA, RUFUS, T. HAWK HES BETTER THAN GIEF AND HES THAT LOW LOL -_-, BISON, and VIPER, she got considerably better might be top 5 THIS LIST SHOULD'NT BE TAKEN WITH A GRAIN OF SALT, IT SHOULD BE TAKEN WITH A PIECE OF THAT GRAIN OF SALT, THEN A PIECE OF THAT GRAIN THEN MAYBE ANOTHER PIECE. SORRY Chun didn't get that good maybe top 10 her and ibuki.
People who question how Guile and Sagat are A+ tier PLEASE undersand: THIS IS A JAPANESE TIER LIST, NOT AMERICAN
YES, Guile and Sagat might be like B+ or low A in, say, the US, but they are probably much higher in Japan.
I know that u guys all know that the japanese are better, but the Japanese Guile and Sagat Japanese players ARE ESPECIALLY BETTER. I mean they are IMMENSELY better than American ones. I cannot stress enough how much bigger the japanese-american gap is with these two characters than most of the other ones.
Before anyone even tries: do not put modinside, dagger g, fuson or any of them even in the same sentence with top Japanese Guiles like yazu (unless it is to point out that they cannot even be compared)
I completely agree with 63.
The Japanese have different play styles so obviously, some characters will shine. For the US, we prefer rushdown and risk taking then the Japanese calculated risk-taking characters. The Iplaywinner tier list will make more sense to us americans.
I'm not going to take a SSFIV tiers list seriously for another year or 2. Especially not before the arcade version even comes out. I'm sure there are going to be some balance tweaks that roll out along with the Tournament Mode DLC, so I don't even understand why people are even trying to make a tiers list before then.
THis doesnt look to bad for the first listing. A few changes here and there but we can debate those more in depht when we have the matchups to look at. I can def see makoto and hakan having alot of 4s. But this time around capcom did alot better with the character balance and i dont think anyone will argue that.
this list seems alot better then the earlier one.Not sure about guile being so high though
Lol this lifestyle is kinda Kool guile was gonna get boosted to near top list just because his sonic hurricane is such a good ultra I pictured Cody and cammy to b higher in the tier Then they r ATM and I pictured hakan to b low tier since he is a joke character look at his grabs but don't forget ot only 30 days Into the game
I saw Sanford Kells Sakura yesterday... i would say Sakura is S tier X)
@78
It's not Guile's new ultra that boosted him, it's his reduced charge time for sonic booms. It's so good that Guile could actually keep up in a projectile match with Ryu and Sagat.
For those who say there are no tiers consider this, I'm sure you would accept that characters have good and bad matchups, ergo there must be tiers with the one with the least bad and the most good being top. Wether tiers are of any importance i doubt, a match up rating kind of is but tiers in themselves, questionable. In this game maybe they're slightly useful just to see how well capcom did. Also this one is much more agreeable than that iplaywinner list.
Theres no way Guiles gone from lower tier in SF4 all the way to top tier in SSF4 just because of a slightly faster sonic boom charge time. And I dont think its been out long enough for this too be taken too seriously. Interesting to see peoples response though.
@ 80 yeah I forgot about the reduced. Charge for his sonic boom and his normals have better priority but he finally got an ultra that is more useful n makes it hard to rush in on him but u have to admit his ultra is too good IMO it trades cokes out of no where and easier to combo onto than his flash explosion n is more safe on the block
And to the. Guys that made the comment about guile only top tier because diagonal used him is. BS it more like gave peeps out there that been a fan of guile or mains him hope that capcom didn't screwed his character over and showed that they actually improved him
These have to be a joke. Guile's much better but A+ tier? Come on. Same with Rufus. He got nerfed pretty hard on the damage and has very little improvements. He moved down on the tier list not up. I think Ibuki will be top tier but it's gonna take time as she's hard to play.
I've been playing as Guile since World Warrior...
In Vanilla...he was crazy weak!
Well played he could compete with the best which I believe is still the case...but calling him top tier is one hell of a reach...
Watching pro's use him I'd doubt very much if you would see many "runaway" wins.
They improved damage on the last kick of Flash Explosion which is good...and linking his crouching forward heavy kick to flash can be done without meter...but using that crouching forward heavy kick at the right time still requires a lot of effort.
He still seems to me like the same old Vanilla Guile with a new ultra and a stronger third kick in his old ultra.
A+ = Gief, Gouki, Boxer, Juri, Chun, T Hawk...IMO
Still...early days...
Wow, what happened to all the talk of Dudley being God tier? I main him since he was one of my favourite characters in 3s and even then I wasn't that good with him, but now in super I've been racking up the wins. His duck shuts down a lot of fireball throwers or at the very least renders them useless, especially when you hit the spacing sweet spot of ducking under a hadoken and hitting with a straight, hell they can't even focus through the attack since it's armour breaking.
then there's his meterless combo into ultra2, the character's very versatile. Regardless, I'll still be maining him despite what the tier lists say. It's difficult to not simply see the A+ tier as a reflection of what the pros are maining at the moment.
I love all of these comments about how guile "isn't A+". You guile users just don't want to be seen as new the new Sagat so you are downplaying the fact that Guile is obviously very good in this game. He's definitely A+. He's got all the tools to compete. First you all (for months) whined and whined on eventhubs about how weak he was, and then you whined about how "OMG HE'S RECEIVED NO CHANGES AND HE'S STILL GOING TO SUCK!!! >.< " and now that he's top tier it's like you can't handle it and you want to write it off so that you can justify playing him still. If you want a handicap so bad, play Dan and bitch about he needs upgrades. You guys kill me.
I've seen several comments on how Cammy shouldn't be where she is due to Cannon Spike damage nerf and U2 among other things. First of all, this is merely a speculated guess on rankings of a game that has not been out for a MONTH. Secondly, let's pretend it is. You may argue that all the buffs that Cammy gained aren't enough to make up for her nerfs (and I'm sure many would argue regarding that topic), think about this: Cammy's not the only one who's been tweaked. Everybody else from vanilla has experienced changes to their properties be it major or subtle. Not only that, 10 new characters were added! All of these factors determine how competitive characters are. What I'm saying is, it's not just Cammy who got herself to where she is right now, the other characters did as well. But this has been reported far too early. Cammy might end up higher or lower in the upcoming months.
Cammy, Fei Long, Juri should definitely be higher on that list. Ken should be dropped down IMO he's not no where as good as Ryu but it's still early and it's just really his opinion vs mines no hate. Akuma is the best character in the game IMO. Sagat is no longer S tier probably A tier. Hakan would be the worst character IMO and Dan is really not that bad better than Sakura.
This list looks pretty accurate for the most part, but i would have to disagree with cammy, juri, blanka, and codys placement as they should be higher. and as for makoto and hakan being pretty low, i still think they havent really been fully discovered yet imo.
Ok, I'm going to expand on my other comment (42). People both these tier lists suck. They suck because it's early, we're still learning about this game and to say that Guile is that good, would be like if saying Jay Cutler was going to be the NFL MVP without a doubt, but it's only been 3 weeks into the season. In fact, using Guile as an example, why is he listed so high? If you take a look at his frame data, except for a few moves damage wise, there is no difference and his Flash Kick still sucks. The only major difference is his new ultra, the Sonic Hurricane. Is he only better because he has that move? Maybe, but it doesn't make him one of the best characters.
In fact take look at Rufus. His new ultra play him completely differently, it makes him play defensively. It's a COUNTER move, anti-air, anti-FB, etc. And it can't be combo'd into outside of a FA (and no Far HK into U2 doesn't count, it's worthless). Were as U1 makes him offensive minded, he can do a bunch of damage when he combos into it and he has a ton of ways to do it. If there is going to be a tier list for this game, I want to see it with how they handle their match ups with Ultra 1 vs how they do with Ultra 2. This isn't Third Strike were they only have one useful SA, some of the characters have two really good ultras, like Abel for example. Ok, rant over.
@113 Yeah that's exactly what I was thinking, I guess we're just gonna have to wait until after EVO to actually see a decent tier list. It still makes me a tad salty seeing Cody being so low in the list but its like how @99 said, no amazing reversal = under A tier T_T
@#113
Because judging them by "potential" would actually be worse than judging them by what they are.
I don't think building a tier list this early is a good idea, but at least it means "this is how things are right now". If characters were judged by potential, it would be just "this is how I want the list to be", i.e. meaningless.
As said - waaaay too early.
I do feel Makoto struggling, but it is more my poor execution than character (and Mak without flawless HCB and absolutely instant DP against crossups will die to blind to blind Fuerte turtler). Remember early days of 3S and then J.
@ 119
Finally someone else shares my views on that ultra. Don't forget with Abel's tools, there is no way to combo into the ultra. It's only use is for locking people in the corner, forcing them to try to escape, but that's just gimmick. The Ultra 1 is much more efficient for what Abel offers.
this is ridiculous. actions like this only prove that our community has several scrubs in it just trying to justify their losts
i've been playing guile since ssf2t
he is not top tier
Daigo really did ruin the guile rep.
I mean yes i know that he is the king, the beast, our god
but let it be that he should have known that playing him could ruin guiles rep.
Yes I believe guile is a better character,
but he is still a character with only 2 special moves, and some alright normals. He still isn't the best
maybe mid tier at the best, but not that good.
As for every other character, this is way to early. It's almost aggravating to see this up.
And seriously? Cody and Guy?
STFU they are amazing characters and this a ridiculous. Everyone knows Dudley is amazing
and that Juri is the nubbiest character out there.
So please, don't start saying Guile's top tier, if you beat someone with Juri, Cody, or Guy, don't say "Yeah! And I did it with a low tier!"
Because you're only exposing your true inner scrub.
It's simply interesting to see a group of people's best guess about how dominating each character is compared to the others. Anyone who gets up in arms about it either way is ridiculous. The important thing is making sure it looks like I care about it less than others so I can be super cool.
IMO tier list are somewhat important. Not every character is built the same. Sakura is as good as Akuma or Rufus its a fact. The tier list just helps understand who the best characters are and who you need to watch out for. Yes there are people that are gonna start flocking to the top tiers because they think its an easy win but what are you gonna do. Thats gonna happen anyways with any fighting game.
To show how balanced Super is there is no D tier and below. Reason being the Japanese believe there is no character that is that bad. Also the majority of the cast is in A or B+ tier.
lol i guarantee if diago wouldnt have used guile he would be "B Tier" i love how people are justifying that guile is top tier now simply because he can throw sonic booms slightly faster and he has a decent 2nd ultra they are basically saying sagat is now bottom tier since his tiger shots come out slower hahah we all know this tier list is complete trash abel A+ really his ultra 2 is amazing but that and a better anti air option imo isnt enough to justify that big of a move
oh come on! Dan totally dominates the low tier list he's at least a C-
Um rufus A+? let me guess, just cuz of Justin tying with daigo (vice versa w/ guile) I can destroy rufus + guile easily with guy p.s. Guy is like at least a B cody=A
tiers are fun and its interesting to debate characters places in them
while i dont main guile i have followed the "guile was robbed" etc rants on event hubs so i would love to hear what jerseyfame and co have to say about this new SUPER guile a+ tier killer ! lol
U people fail to realize not only did his sonic boom get a faster recharge his pokes got even better his normal shield kicks goes threw fireballs now doesn't trade anymore everyone that had high damage got lower so now he's more on the same page as those who were stronger. I don't think he's A+ maybe A he needs a easy ultra juggle to be A+
I'm just glad they finaly brought the old guile back it's been a long time just sucks now I gotta main my chun li more cuz guile mirror matches are so boring. Glad I have 2 mains lol
rufus is obviously top tier he was top in vanilla and got no nerfs so the few matchup that werent in his favor now are rufus is friggen monster and i hate him but hes definitely the best in the game
Rufus- A+
Guile- B
@ lmao at drmario so your saying whatever character daigo wins with is top tier not because daigo is a great player but because the people he picks are the best in the game....yea ok
Guile:
of the best normals now: pretty much the best normal/pokes in the game IF YOU KNOW how to use them (pretty much no one on here). His greater range/priority/faster normals means he can beat pretty much beat anyone at footsies. This is one of the best thing a character can possibly have, even better than having an amazing ultra and the funny thing is none of u know anything about how to use it to nearly its full advantage. I can hardly recall any American player - even the best - use these to the fullest in vanilla (im not claiming i can, im just saying we have a long way to go)
less charge time: this is huge too, but it is overrated compared to his normal upgrades. Again, if that sounds odd to you, it is because you are blind to Guile's normal potential
his u2: trade into it, counter projectiles, bazooka knee or sabat into it. its a HUGE upgraede from flash explosion.
Damage: one of the only characters ( i believe only 2 others) that stayed pretty much the same in dmg. Thus his damage is actually good now.
I feel not only are his moves faster, but he is actually faster now like with his walk speed
Since for americans the biggest weakness is zoning and footsies, and the japanese are the best at it, of course guile is gonna be A+ or A in Japan and Americans are not gonna have any clue why (and then some people act stupid enough that since they dont know why, there must be nothing to him). Of course the reason is, non-Japanese players like the mostly American people commenting on here simply cannot take advantage of his biggest upgrades to do with his normals
It'll always be the shotos and Sagat that will be at the top of the tiers! Street fighter revolves around the shoto's game.
@144
LOL at everything you said. OMG! You must be so infatuated with this turtle if you think he really belongs in that A+ spot. Footsies?! Normals?! Hahaha!! Chun Li laughs at everything Guile throws at her. You want a footsies and normals war, pit Guile against Chun and see if you still end up saying the same crap you just said after. Chun doesn't even need to go airborne to destroy Guile. Everything she needs can be done on the ground. St.+MP will stuff nearly every Guile normal shenanigan alone. Need I say that both of her ultras are effective on Guile? You also forget the shotos Cr.+MK of doom which will also stuff Guile's grounded normals. I agree that Guile's gotten better but putting him in A+ just because Daigo used him and won?? C'mon!
hakan = god tier!
well, maybe not. but he's a hell of a lot of fun to play once you understand how differently you need to think while using him; i'm about 5 wins away from 4000 BP and not looking back, regardless of tier lists -- which are, at BEST, a vague indication of out-of-the-box potential...
i mean, a totally new character, with completely new game mechanics, and people think you can maker a worthwhile evaluation in < 1 month? to quote the oily turk... "seriously?" ;)
I have to agree with all of those who say it's too early for an accurate tier list. Still it is fun to speculate. I would say Ryu should be above Sagat. I'm a shoto player mostly and did some math in training, and based on quick punish combos,ultra damage, and the vast ways you can combo into ultra with both characters, I think Ryu is slightly more versatile and punishing. With Sagat's heavy nerfs, and the fact his new ultra isn't as damaging as his previous and some characters still bounce when in the corner off ultra 1. Just my two cents. I would love to hear some pro comments to help convince me Sagat should still be highest tier. No hostility here, please just some honest input, I'm looking to improve my game, I'm not that great. :-)
A: Akuma, Sagat, Guile, Boxer
B+: Ryu, Dictator, dudley, Zangief, Cody, Blanka, T Hawk, Juri
B: Chun-li, Rufus, Dhalsim, Cammy, Gouken, Ken, Seth, C. Viper, Rose
C: Ibuki, Gen, Abel, E. Honda, Claw, Guy, DeeJay, Adon, Fuerte, Sakura, Fei
D: Dan, Hakan, Makoto,
Makoto is only hard to play with that doesn't mean she sucks that much. She has great damage, a great mix up game and the best dash in the game. Her wake up game lacks a bit but her back dash is useful in these situation. And she is only week against grappler characters because it really limits her mix up on knock down, FBs are not so much of a problem because of her dash punch and her dash.
HELLO!!!
This game is called Super Sagat Fighter IV for a reason. Here's an official tier list from Square Enix:
S+(Sagat + rank)
Sagat
A(all others)
Ryu
Ken
Akuma
Rose
Makoto
Dudley
etc.
LOL. Actually no offense guys, I main sagat as well, but its just funny to see people rip on him.
A+ Sagat, Juri, Ibuki, Akuma, Rufus
A Rose, Balrog, Dudley, Abel, Viper
B+ Cody, T. Hawk, Guile, Gen(Yes, he's better) Cammy, Dhalsim, Ryu, Adon, Chun-Li, Guile(Barely)
B Blanka, Ken, Dee Jay, Vega, Guy, Bison, Zangief, Honda, Sakura
C+ Fei-Long, Gouken (he's still ass), El Fuerte, Makoto, Dan
C Hakan
Fixed.
Im not taking this seriously
But if I have to say,
I think IPlayWinner.com tier is more accurate.
And guys, I really do think that guile is really good this time, I mean his normals are far better in SSF4 and his charge time reductions actually does make a hell of a difference.
Im a guile player too.
one last time
theres a speculated tier list for how americans play. look at iplaywinner if u want that. Over there, for example, guile is B+. I agree. Guile is probably going to be around B+ IN THE US.
if u want a speculated tier list that reflects the japanese, look at this. Here it says guile is A+. While that may be a tad bit high, i think guile does settle around A. BUT IN JAPAN. NOT THE US (where he is lower)
this speculated tier list does not tell how good these characters are universally. it tells you how good these characters are going to be at a japanese tournament scenes.
And at those tournament scenes, certain characters shine more than they do in the US and others do worse off
Well since my last post was really nonsense I'd just like to give Guile (#173) a big +1.
Look at Akuma in vanilla. He's dominant as heck in the Japanese tournament scene, and yea Tokido and Momochi were hype as hell at the last National's (held on 4/4/10). But the same is certainly not true in the US and the rest of the world. We don't have the mad execution skillz to bring out Akuma's potential.
Prolly the same with guile, except with him we don't have the mad zoning and patience. I swear some of the Japanese players prolly have micrometers implanted in their eyes or something.
Guile is top tier because of his new move the sunglasses it just pwns peeps
haha wg
rufus was barely touched in terms of nerfing. his damage got lowered to a normal extinct... to sf4 niveau. but EVERY character got his damage reduced, so for ssf4 niveau his moves are damage oversized AGAIN. falcon kick is still the same as all of his combos are intact.
funny is, the most nerfed character is Gen. he's now nearly unplayable.
Guile is not top tier.He is bottom B at its best.
Wow,didn't see that coming that Blanka is so low.
Rufus on top?
Haven't lost vs a 8k bp Rufus yet and I guess 8k bp Rufus players are pretty solid.
honestly, Blanka is that low. Blanka is a broken character that got completely screwed over in super. Almost every character has an ultra that can punish a blocked ball. If they didn't have one in vanilla ( rufus, claw, sagat...) they have one now. hes the only character who can get punished on hit. up-ball is one of the worst moves in the game, fei longs fierce rekka punishes block and hit, claw can slide it on block or hit. what he was given in super does not make up for what everyone else was given to fight against him. I attended mwc:2010 and the match i lost was against a chun li that hit me with a FULL ultra because i comboed into a horizontal ball... you can't honestly say that that isn't complete bs
Ive been using Guile since World Warriors and there is no way he is on the highest tier...based on the fact he is still weak against zoning, crossup and tick throws. Other characters have go to strategies to retaliate against these tactics....Guile still has to "escape" from these situations.
He is much better than last game due to his strength and stamina increase. But he still falls victim to cowardly zoning of Ryu, Akuma, Sagat and the like.
Guile is only effective when his opponents engage him. When Guile is being zoned and crossed up he is still very weak.
To be excellent with Guile you have to have a High Street Fighter IQ and great execution along with saint like patience. When your fighting an opponent who is actually "playing" against you and engaging you in a fight. Guile shines. (We all know those opponents are rare, because everyone emulates high level "turtling" that gets showcased every day.)
Thats not a sign of an A+ tier character...Characters who you can mash with (Ryu etc...) are more like A+ tier because their moves can be executed with little thought and skill, some of Ryus n freinds more damaging combos can be done by banging on your controller, making them easier to use and more formidable against opponents and poking trickery. Yet and still people still play "hide and go seek" Ryu...smh.
Dudley sucks I play Sagat and Dudley is as free as Zangief for me , Dudley needs to be in your face to do anything and as Sagat he cant get near me so I always win
Seriously, I think reducing Damage per hit for a character isn't NERFing. My definition of nerfing is when you reduce hit damage and also take away the easy combo linking possibilties(example..sagat, tiger knee, roundhouse, roundhouse Ultra). It really doesn't matter if you reduce his damages but if he still has the same easy links, he'll be the same regardless if it takes alittle longer for sagat to kick butt. Capcom has done good and bad in some aspects, good as in removing akumas jab kick links but there's also bad. I don't really know what they did to sagat cause i haven't run into 1 sagat ever since i got superSF4.
@ 183
I think the other guy means nerfing in terms of less priority and extra start up frames etc. Rufus is still very easy to play with his hit confirm ultra combos and his ex falcon. He'll do less damage, but you aren't forced to play him any differently than before.
Guile is B+ or A not A+. He did get really good buffs and is tons better then he was in vanilla. His biggest problem is when someone gets in he has to work hard to push them back out. Of course getting in is a pain but once your in Guile takes big damage. He just has to big of a problem to be top tier or A+. Dont get me wrong he is still very good just not top tier.
Keep in mind Blanka DID take a 50pt defense cut unlike all the other normal defense chars(guile, ryu...etc) that stayed the same.
haha easily the worst tier list ive ever seen! guile top... wtf HAHA. this is so funny, man keep these lists coming for the LOLZ.
To most of you who are still trash talking Guile, he was buffed, and you clearly haven't watched the Daigo vs Justin exhibition match at Fight Night. So by reading your "LOLS" at Guile I'm only seeing two things,
"I'm not good with Guile therefore he can't be top tier"
or
"I'm ignorant and I'm a troll."
These lists are generally made around top level players, not us forum posters :3. Just sayin'.
To me Guile is always top tier in my hands. I don't turtle at all, I come attacking non stop and very fast when it comes to throwing sonic booms. Now with the new charge time its really hard to beat my combos.
post # 144 Guile. i use guile as a main n chun li. guile doesnt have the best pokes chun lis pokes r pretty damn good to specialy the medium standing punch. my cousin uses guile to n when he uses guile i use my chun and he plays guiles poke game very well n i still over take his pokes with chun lis pokes so before u start saying he has the best pokes use other people before u make that statement
And for Guile (User name) his combos did get stronger so he did get alil damage raise only on his combos and for the guys talking about chun li is so godly against guile ur crazy all depends on how each person is playing against eah other chun still has a edge....maybe lol
A+ Sagat, Ryu, Rufus, Akuma
A Abel, Chun Li, Bison, Seth, Ibuki, Rose, Balrog, Deejay
B+ Ken, E. Honda, T.Hawk, Zangief, Dudley, Blanka, Cody, Dhalsim
B Sakura, C. Viper, Adon, Juri, Vega, Gouken, Guile, Guy
C+ Cammy, Fei-Long, El Fuerte, Makoto
C Dan, Hakan. Gen,
WTF is a "tier ranking chart"? Ok one character may have poor priority against another or whatever, but if someone is skilled with a particular character and knows how to deal with the BS in difficult match-ups, what difference does it make if that character is low or high tier? Guile doing blind flash kick after blind flash kick does not constitute a high tier player even if he's a "high tier" character.
Also I have a feeling Guile is so highly ranked due to Daigo's LA appearance since apparently he's a national treasure. If Daigo won while playing Dan only using his ass cheeks, that would most likely make Dan A+ too. =P
Ok, I take back what I said iplaywinner changed all of Dan's matchups lol
A+: Rufus, Akuma, Guile, Abel, Sagat
A: Bison, C. Viper, Ryu
B+: Balrog, Chun Li, E. Honda, Dhalsim, Ibuki
B: Zangief, Blanka, Seth, Dudley, Cammy, El Fuerte, Ken, Juri, Rose
C: T. Hawk, DeeJay, Guy, Fei Long, Cody, Gouken, Vega, Adon, Gen
D: Hakan, Makoto, Sakura, Dan
I believe iPlaywinner and the Japanese Wiki both have Guile listed as Top Tier.
Iplaywinner updated tier list http://iplaywinner.com/news/2010/5/17...
The matchups are SO close on the tier lists that it really doesn't matter too much, they're almost all 50-50's.
Plus, Hakan is worse than Dan, for the record.
all you hakan haters... seriously, he's difficult to get to grips with, but he's not D-list. I also have a B-grade Juri and will probably have a B-grade Gouken in a few more days, so it's pretty obvious I play who I like, not who's "good" ;p
Admittedly he's probably no better than B-minus, but he's hardly as worthless as you're all making out; it's just that that he's hard to pickup and win with immediately. After a few hundred matches I now have a 50% win-rate with him, and am closing in on B-grade -- and that's after a LOT of losses up-front. "4200 points and rising..."
Other asides; Alex Valle is kicking ass with Adon, who people are sticking way low down the lists. Look at the matchup numbesr, almost all are 5:5, or 4:6, even for the worst ranked characters.
Pick who you like, play to their strengths, and have fun. Just because you play Hakan, it doesn't mean you're automatically going to lose everything.
All i know is anyone who uses guile is a cheap tier whore.Guile is soo good in this game that it does not take skill to use him.Much respect for low tier players.No respect for guile players who use him like people used sagat in vanilla
Really thought they said they were nerfing falcon kick. Dive kick and Falcon are the same exact thing, and still so PUNISHABLE.
Fixed.
@210
Get off the Japanese nuts. They are not so god like anymore. Americans have always been known for having better footsies, and zoning wise the Japanese are not better then the Americans its bout the same. Thats what Guile is all about zoning and footsies and if anything the Americans will have a better Guile cus they have better footsies. Daigo is just an amazing player not. Americans are right there with the Japanese and this game coming out at the same time in both the US and Japan you best believe Americans are hungry and are gonna come hard at EVO. Again stop D!ck riding the Japanese.
@ayembee
Hakan is top tier when he is oiled up when he is not he is bottom. Problem is he has a hard time getting oiled up and staying oiled up. A good player will rush Hakan the hell down cus he cant really do anything about it and not allow him to oil up. He has no good reversals to get him out off trouble like a Lariat or T. Hawks DP. He will probably move up a little as time moves on and people find out more things about him.
I only play Guile, I can't play as good with anyone else. I watch Daigo play as Guile and hes not that good. He is just a good counter hitter. My Guile is a beast, non stop action. PSN PUREFIRE21 and I talk alot of trash when im beating that ass.
@Tru1yOdd
if you're also playing hakan, i find oil slide is actually very effective against lariat (I believe EX version gets you a few frames of invincibility for a nice reversal) and I'm having mixed success using LK oil dive against t.hawk's dives from the air. timing/spacing needs to be good, but you can actually pluck him right out of the air cleanly if you get it.
still, your point is good -- if you can't get oily, everything gets harder, and most decent players now try to get on you fast and stay on you to prevent it. this isn't necessarily TOO bad if you can predict a little, as they tend to go all-out offense to start with, and make a few risky/unsafe bets of their own. a couple of decent unoiled stuffs can work wonders.
nevertheless, I need to get better at slide>oil>mixup timing, as well as focus-cancelling my oil slides when they get blocked; keep screwing that up and getting stuffed in return, heh. anyways, all good fun ;)
@drmario111
Guile dosent counter many characters really. He is a really good character top tier maybe not. He still has regular Guile issues, if some one gets in its really hard Guile to compete. He has a hard time pushing the opponent back out since his wake up aint all that amazing and his flash kick isnt shoto DP status. Thats why he has a hard time with Rufus and Abel cus if they get in he loses. Top tier he isnt high tier definitely.
woah guile and abel at A+ tier. this is going to be interesting