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Updated: Super Street Fighter 4 change notes for six cast members

Posted by Jonathan 'Catalyst' Grey • March 30, 2010 at 1:14 a.m. PDT
Updated: Super Street Fighter 4 change notes for six cast members The latest Japanese Super Street Fighter 4 development blog was posted. In this entry the team talks about the rebalancing process for Ryu, Ken, Chun-Li, E. Honda, Blanka and Zangief as well as some general stuff that affects everyone.

A full translation was written up by Azrael, but since this is a long post, here's a synopsis of what's in the update followed by the entire posting.

• Characters don't die as easily in Super Street Fighter 4 as they did in vanilla SF4. This is because of reduced attack power in most cases.

• Developers felt some aspects of Ryu were too strong in SF4. Now it's more difficult for him to get extra damage if he trades with a Shoryuken.

• Ryu can no longer execute his Super if a previously thrown Fireball is on screen.

• The team used Ryu as the centerpiece for character balance adjustments.

• Ken's Thunder Kick (Toward + Hard Kick) is improved.

• Ken's Light Punch Shoryuken had it's frame data properties improved, and his Dragon Punch, in general, is easier to combo with.

• Chun-Li's Far Standing Medium Punch is even better.

• Chun-Li's Rear Spin Kick (Down-Towards + Light Kick) has an improved hit box, and when used as an anti air you can juggle your enemy after the fact.

• The developers felt E. Honda had too much trouble dealing with projectile characters, so they specifically tried to improve him in that area.

• E. Honda's Headbutt will now travel over Sagat's Low Tiger Shot. Other sources stated Honda's Light Punch and EX-Headbutts have more frames of invulnerability too.

• The distance on Blanka's Horizontal Beast Rolls have all been adjusted. Light Punch goes a shorter distance and Medium and Hard Punch have both been tweaked so they're better at faking out your opponent.

• Blanka's recovery time on his Surprise Forward (Towards Hop) has been reduced.

• Zangief's Lariat will whiff against crouching opponents from the 2nd hit on, this will make him easier to sweep.

• Gief's Banishing Flat (Green Glove) was also reduced in power. The developers felt like he was too much of a heavy hitter and not enough of a grappler, so they left his throws alone but tuned down some of his attacks.

• Zangief's jump was tweaked because it was a little too good in Street Fighter 4, but you can still Short Jump.

• Every character in Super Street Fighter 4 was tweaked in some way.

• Next week's entry will focus on Guile, Dhalsim, Balrog, Vega, Sagat, and M. Bison.

Here is the full developer entry with images.

Ms. Shiozawa posted a super-sized blog last week, didn't she!

Hello everyone, this is Tsukamoto.

Here at the developers blog we've also gotten plenty of questions regarding adjustments, so from today's installment, we're going to be talking about adjustments for a little while - together with the battle planner, we'll talk about what kinds of changes we've made.

When adjusting the old characters, what kinds of areas are most important?

Okada:
When we released Street Fighter 4, at that time we thought we'd put out our best effort. However, after it went on sale, players found ways to use moves and techniques that we'd never thought of, which gave the game a new way to be played, and that transformed the core of Street Fighter 4. So what we focused on this time around was that transformation. So centering around that, we have been reconstructing the moves and their functionality while thinking about character balance and fun levels. When we thought about what the fans wanted in Super Street Fighter 4, it wasn't just stuff like "new characters" or "make my character stronger," but things like, "please fix this thing," and "I'd like to be able to do more of this," - this is what the plenty of people who have played Street Fighter 4 wanted, so we felt it was important to get as much of that as possible in the game.

What was the most difficult point this time around?

Okada:
Just picking one is quite difficult... but if I have to choose, I'll say increasing the number of times you have to read your opponent.

Number of times you read your opponent?

Okada:
Originally in Street Fighter 4, we planned for all characters to read their opponents about 2 times.

Tsukamoto:
What you're getting at is - if you read your opponent's movements and skillfully attack them twice, then you're most likely going to win?

Okada:
Yes. We decided on 2 times because we felt that that was the best feel considering how long you would have to keep up your concentration. For players who aren't used to it, reading their opponent is very difficult, so if you have to do that multiple times a round then it just adds to their stress and the happy feeling of, "I read my opponent and won!" gets diminished.

Tsukamoto:
The most important part of a game is that people find it fun. As we had to expand the fanbase and make it easy for newcomers to the competitive fighting game scene, balancing that area was difficult.

Okada:
So, going along with the transformation of Street Fighter 4, players general skill level has also increased, so there are many more people who can enjoy reading their opponents. That's why we've adjusted the game to allow for more reading of the opponent per round. I think, in general, that has been the biggest adjustment.

Does that mean that the characters don't die so easily now?

Okada:
They don't die so easily, or perhaps attack power is slightly down in general. So with the increase of reading your opponent, for not just advanced players, but beginners as well can afford to make a miss but be able to mount a comeback. So in that way I feel that the play has become a little easier than in the first title.

Let's move on to the individual adjustments. Please tell us about Ryu.

Okada:
We spoke about this in a previous blog, but we felt that as he was in the previous title, he had some areas that were too strong, so we're working on that. But we don't want all the work that players put in the previous title to go to waste.

Generally, what type of adjustments were made?

Okada:
First off, let's look at the Shoryuken. If I start with the easiest to understand - in the previous title, if Ryu did Shoryuken to an opponent, they'd take damage and go flying, but sometimes Ryu would also take damage on the ground - a trade hit. But he would recover from the trade hit faster than the flying opponent, and he'd be able to do a follow up move for additional damage. This time, Ryu also takes airborne damage*, so its more difficult for him to follow up with an attack.
(*This is a direct translation, but I think he just means that hit stun is longer?)

Sano:
For many players in Street Fighter 4, they felt unhappy that even though they traded with the Shoryuken, this gave Ryu an advantage. So then players would feel that the victory was decided by Ryu being a good character, and that took away from the work that the Ryu player put into using him. We wanted to do something about that.

Okada:
Also, another fairly big thing was that while Ryu had one Fireball on the screen, he could Cancel into his Super Fireball. So when Ryu had full super, he could just throw fireballs. If the Fireball hit or the opponent jumped to avoid it, or even if they canceled with a fireball of their own, Ryu could follow up with the Super Fireball, and it was pretty much guaranteed. So we've made it so that this "Ryu super combo bonus game" is not possible in Super Street Fighter 4. I believe this will relieve some of the stress people had in fighting Ryu.

Does this mean that Ryu was gotten weaker?

Okada:
Under the same conditions, just looking at it from one side, since we have taken away some advantages then you can say that Ryu has gotten weaker in some areas. But, as usual, we are using Ryu as the centerpiece of the character balance adjustments, so if you look at the game as a whole, his position hasn't changed.

What point would you recommend about his new ultra, Metsu Shoryuken?

Okada:
First, the production is pretty cool. It's just a nice, refreshing feeling when you hit it. Of course, Metsu Shoryuken is a technique that requires a high level of skill to pull off. It's good for showing that you are a top-class Ryu player. So I'd like for advanced players to definitely use Metsu Shoryuken. Since its difficult to hit, it takes off a lot of damage - so I recommend it for players who want to use a powerful Ryu.

Now tell us about the adjustments for Ken.

Okada:
If we compare Ken and Ryu from Street Fighter 4, what stands out the most is that I feel Ken has a lot of potential, and can do a lot of tricky/sneaky moves, such as the kara throw and other techniques. So we wanted to keep that aspect of Ken in place while making our general adjustments. Also, Ken has a lot of kick moves for rush down, so we've made his heel kick stronger. Using this move, following into other stuff is more fun. We also adjusted Ken's Shoryuken. Since a while ago, Ryu's staple has been the Fireball, and Ken the Shoryuken. But in the previous title, Ryu's Shoryuken was fairly safe and strong, so people often said to us that Ken wasn't the Shoryuken character he was supposed to be in IV. So this time, we've reduced the interval on the Light Punch version, making it easier to use. Now its easier to do combos with Shoryuken as the main, and its a very versatile move.

What point would you recommend about his new ultra, Guren Senpyuu Kyaku?

Okada:
Guren Senpyuu Kyaku is great at a range where your opponent's attacks are just out of reach, in order to control ground space. It's got great rush power, and is also good for chip damage. So I recommend it for the big finish.

Now tell us about the adjustments for Chun-Li.

Okada:
This time, we're working on Chun-Li's offense. The concept for Chun this time around was clear and precise footsies using normal moves. So we've done a full-scale review of her normals. For example, her Far Standing Medium Punch - in Street Fighter 4 its strong it its own right, but we've made it even better.

Sano:
We've also improved her Flip Kick (Down-Towards + Light Kick). In Street Fighter 4 sometimes it was hard to hit opponents with this, so we made it a bit easier to use.

Tsukamoto:
If you hit an airborne opponent with this, you get counter hit status and damage, so as anti-air you can follow up with something else.

Her new ultra, Kikousho, is a move a lot of people wanted to have back.

Okada:
Yes. In IV Chun is a charge character, and for charge moves you have to calculate when you want to use them or else you don't get them to come out. So they're a little difficult in that way. But this time, her Kikousho is not a charge move, so compared to other moves the timing for using it is a lot easier, I think. It's a good all-purpose, easily-comboable move. The trade off is that it doesn't do much damage. So for those who want to land one big heavy blow, they can stick with Housenka, but for those who want a stable tool to help improve their footsies they can choose Kikousho, and this widens out her playstyle.

Tell us about E.Honda's adjustments.

Sano:
We've improved the functionality on his biggest lifeline, the Headbutt. As his normals do plenty of damage, Honda wasn't exactly a weak character, but the feeling was that he had trouble dealing with fireball characters, so we've tried to improve that area.

Okada:
Generally speaking, in IV the Headbutt didn't go over Sagat's Low Tiger Shots, but now they do. And for his Ultra, he gets a combination of his Oicho, called the Shin Orochi Kudaki*. It's a throw with a lot of power, so when he gets in close his options will increase.
(*I may be totally wrong about the name.)

Sano:
When using Honda before, perhaps he didn't have a good move for finishing the opponent off, but with his new ultra now he does. For those who like to press forward, this will make the fight easier.

Okada:
It's not a charge move, so its like giving him a new special move he can use in a moment's notice that has a bunch of power behind it. I think this is the biggest point for him.

Tell us about the adjustments for Blanka.

Okada:
The centerpiece of Blanka's adjustments would have to be his new ultra, Shout of Earth. His original ultra, Lightning Canon Ball, was good for chip damage as well as charging forward, so it was plenty useful. But Shout of Earth can work as both ground-to-ground and anti air. So you get two for the price of one. Blanka is a character who worries about what to do when he is out of attack range, but this move helps with that. If you get to a distance where both characters are out of attack range and you use it unexpectedly, I think it will be quite useful.

Sano:
Outside of his ultra, we've also reduced the recover on surprise forward. So now it's good for surprise attacks, closing the distance from mid-range and going for a throw, or using a normal for a counter hit.

Okada:
Also, we've shortened the distance for the Light Punch Blanka Ball. The distances for Medium and Hard Punch have also been adjusted, so you can better use them to fake out opponents.

Finally, tell us about the adjustments for Zangief.

Okada:
I believe that Zangief was recognized as one of the stronger characters in the last game, and we developers also felt the same. He was especially strong on wakeup pressure. One of his best tools for that was the Lariat. We spoke about this on a previous blog, but we have nerfed the Lariat a little bit. Generally speaking, we made it so that from the second hit, if the opponent is crouch blocking it will whiff. So its no longer the get out of jail free card up close that it used to be.

Sano:
Also, in IV since the Banishing Flat (Green Glove) was fairly functional, he felt more like a heavy-hitting character than a grappler. So we've kept the power of his throws but tuned down his attacks, so this is more like the real Zangief. I feel like the Gief everyone wanted is finally here.

Okada:
Also, in IV, Gief's jumps were good enough for him to be called "Flying Zangief", so we've looked at the functionality there. But, everything else you can still use as-is, and for many of you using his Short Jump, etc, we haven't changed that at all. Gief's basic concept is a strong ground-based fighter, so I believe we've gotten closer to that image now.

It sounds like his opportunities to win against characters has decreased.

Okada:
Yes. I feel that Gief is a lot closer to his original image now, but in general if you look at it a certain way, he's the character we had to adjust to hold back the most. But that's not to say that he's weaker - his new ultra, the Siberian Blizzard is pretty interesting. Its an air-to-air throw that won't grab grounded opponents, but if you input the command skillfully in the air, you can counter jumpers of course, air-bound moves like the Shoryuken, or even use it against people trying to run away. Like an elevated Hurricane Kick. So like in IV when Ryu would run away from Gief with an air Hurricane, if you use this move well you can snatch him out of the air with ultra. A 720 motion in the air is hard, but if you get it down it has a nice wide range of uses.

Well then, do you have any comments for the players looking forward to Super Street Fighter 4?

Okada:
In Super Street Fighter 4, there's no character we haven't tweaked. Or, no character who plays as-is from Street Fighter 4. We're also adjusting the game as a whole to be more complete, so for those players who felt their limits online, its like a new development. For the people who used the characters who were simply considered to be too strong, we simply adjusted the parts that were a little too cheap, so now you can showcase your own skills as a player as well as your love of the character. At any rate, we're working hard so that the skills you developed in IV do not go to waste.

Sano:
If you are thinking you're going to stop playing IV because Super Street Fighter 4 is coming out, that's a waste. Please keep playing IV until SSF4 comes out to keep your skills polished.

Okada:
The characters we talked about today were born from the Street Fighter 2 series. They have a long history with many different players, who all have different images of them, so these characters are the most difficult. Even in the last game we gave it our all in adjusting them, but in Super Street Fighter 4 if you felt that they were off from their previous image, we've taken various opinions into account and done what we could. For those areas, we've included things that the players felt, agreed with, and even didn't agree with, and if you can enjoy playing with them then that would be great.

Tsukamoto:
Well everyone, did you enjoy today's entry?

In this manner, from this week on we'll be talking about adjustments! Next week we'll hit Guile, Dhalsim, Balrog, Vega, Sagat, and Bison. I think that's a bunch of characters you're all concerned about, so please look forward to it!

See you next week!

Comments

fresco4eva said on March 29, 2010 at 8:20 p.m.

allright... less recovery on spring foward... yesssssssss!

#1
sighrax said on March 29, 2010 at 8:21 p.m.

poor gief

#2
Eso said on March 29, 2010 at 8:24 p.m.

No fireball to super traps for Ryu = :).

#3
JJOR64 said on March 29, 2010 at 8:24 p.m.

Good news for Honda, but they should just make all versions of headbutt go over low Tiger Shots.

#4
RC said on March 29, 2010 at 8:25 p.m.

Everything sounds good, though Gief nerfs has me a little worried.

#5
griever2000 said on March 29, 2010 at 8:25 p.m.

woot nice to see ryu can't do that anymore =D but I wonder if this is the same thing for rose...

#6
MrTanooki said on March 29, 2010 at 8:26 p.m.

Hopefully they fixed Gief's retarded jumping arc.

#7
Qurest said on March 29, 2010 at 8:35 p.m.

I couldn't agree more with #8 tbh.
And on the other hand..
The fireball trap was there for a reason, otherwise it wouldn't been called 'Trap'.
goddamnit.

#8
Psycho said on March 29, 2010 at 8:35 p.m.

I like the damage nerf stuff. I don't understand why they nerfed geif's banishing flat though

#9
sabrewulf said on March 29, 2010 at 8:36 p.m.

waiting for the Guile stuff.

#10
Sakura said on March 29, 2010 at 8:37 p.m.

why nerf Ryu? Seriously?

#11
Psycho said on March 29, 2010 at 8:38 p.m.

I was ok with the uppercut nerf but damn too much nerfs for Ryu!!!

#12
Hrm said on March 29, 2010 at 8:44 p.m.

This all sounds pretty interesting, but I reserve judgement on whether this will make or break these characters until I actually get my hands on this game.

#13
chickenwings said on March 29, 2010 at 8:45 p.m.

so these guys must hate alot of the other street fighter games, theres a bunch of stun/touch of death cmobos, i really dont see how thats a bad thing. Atleast there aint no infinites.

The changes to blanka are interesting, the hop is def helpful but the distance on short ball is kinda wierd. I guess they dont want u to short ball throw at the begin of the match anymore, but honestly short ball really doesnt go that far so im hopeing they atleast speed it up some.

#14
Zanchief said on March 29, 2010 at 8:50 p.m.

CAPCOM F YOUUU zangief is guna suck ass next game thawk is guna shxt on him hes guna be the worst grappler in game even worse than hakan

#15
MANDINGO said on March 29, 2010 at 8:51 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#16
Makavelo said on March 29, 2010 at 8:53 p.m.

i think the part about Honda its bad translated because as it is now on Street Fighter 4, Honda's Super go through Sagat's Low Tiger Shot no matter at what distance the tiger shot is at the time you do the Super.

#17
MANDINGO said on March 29, 2010 at 8:54 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#18
recovery said on March 29, 2010 at 8:54 p.m.

Good nerfs on Ryu, great nerfs on Ken
Now everything's starting to balance out

#19
chickenwings said on March 29, 2010 at 8:55 p.m.

@16

honestly, what gief and 360 character need in general is the hdr input for the slams. Half circle back forward. That way it would be easier to set up slams. Even though u can get a slam from alittle more then half circle back lol.

#20
Makavelo said on March 29, 2010 at 8:58 p.m.

to correct myself, the tiger shot only hits Honda when you do the Super very close to Sagat, so good change on that.

#21
Ex_Ein said on March 29, 2010 at 8:59 p.m.

it's too hard to escape I'm abel recovering from a roll under fireball guess what HERE COMES SUPER! there's no way around it though there is away around almost every other super like that

#22
EasierToRun09 said on March 29, 2010 at 9 p.m.

@12

I hope you're kidding...

#23
stubbs said on March 29, 2010 at 9:02 p.m.

Damage nerf is "eh". They only brought hit damage down by 5s and 10s, so it's not a very big difference.

Nerfs to Ryu are perfect. He'll have to settle for A tier instead of A+ tier.

Mid-tier buffs are nice. Most of Honda's buffs seem to be Sagat specific, but that was his worst matchup anyhow.

Zangief shouldn't have been nerfed hardly at all, weakening greenhand seems silly. Depends on how much they nerfed it.

#24
MANDINGO said on March 29, 2010 at 9:04 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#25
Diamondis said on March 29, 2010 at 9:05 p.m.

Lariat needed nerfing, hitbox was too low on it and made it unfair. If they've truly made it so Ultra/Super doesn't work while a projectile is on screen then Seth's Ultra 1 is now useless.

Half circle back, forward does work as a 360 input. Any six inputs will do.

#26
MANDINGO said on March 29, 2010 at 9:07 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#27
his1nightmare said on March 29, 2010 at 9:07 p.m.

Everything looks fine for me.

But... what exactly is the difference now, that in a trade scenario of an AA SRK the user gets aerial damage?? Counter Hit or what? Or shall this just confuse the fans?

#28
Diamondis said on March 29, 2010 at 9:09 p.m.

It seems your worst match up is with the caps lock key, Mandingo.

#29
Cascadian1106 said on March 29, 2010 at 9:19 p.m.

Finally, no more Hadoken into super traps so I can safely FA all those fireballs Ryu-users throw at me anytime. The Zangief nerfs are very much welcomed as well. The lariat and banishing flat moves just had way too much invincibility making fireballs useless paired with Zangief's ridiculous jump arc. Go back to being bottom-tier you stupid grappler! How do you still improve a godly poke like Chun's standing medium punch? I mean it's cancellable into her specials and super, has good range and priority. If that's been improved like her crouching medium kick has then I guess poking-god Chun is back. DF+lk didn't do Chun any good in SF4 except get her into trouble. I guess now it can be used as an anti-air more reliably. I ca't wait to read the entire translation.

#30
MB56 said on March 29, 2010 at 9:20 p.m.

yea the nerf of zangief's green banishing flat is pretty gay, that move isnt even that good to start off with.. But i like the nerfing of the lariats, they were too good in sf4.

It's good how ken's gettin some buffs, he kinda needs it.

#31
Nyoronoru said on March 29, 2010 at 9:23 p.m.

Good night Lariat. Prepare to be swept, Gief players.

#32
Stefanten said on March 29, 2010 at 9:26 p.m.

Kens shoryukens are looking godlike, i like it.

#33
THawk said on March 29, 2010 at 9:27 p.m.

Not sure why all the nerfs to Gief tbh. I understand Ryu and Sagat... they were way too good... but why Gief?

All his nerfs so far:
-Reduced health by 100
-Probably no longer has the short jump
-Lariat will whiff on crouching characters
-God knows why... but they nerfed Banishing Flat?
-His 3rd alt is absolutely horrendous

What has Mother Russia done to deserve this?

#34
chickenwings said on March 29, 2010 at 9:36 p.m.

lariat made sense to nerf, but green hand was fine. Randomly throwing it out gets him punished hard since it has a decent recovery time. And dont forget that he has lower stamia this time out. People complaining about the speed of it forget that the stages are twice as big as they used to be and gief needs to have a legit chance of geting in.

#35
snacpac25 said on March 29, 2010 at 9:42 p.m.

Since they took away the fireball trap they may as well had taken away jump in ultra traps the fireball trap was there for a reason to make you think twice about jumping in just like the jump in ultra traps

#36
chickenwings said on March 29, 2010 at 9:43 p.m.

giefs jumping fierce isnt that bad, and ur freaking that anyone with a solid anti air could beat it(unless ur bison, then u trade alot), and that splash cross up is pure gief, he needs it.

#37
darkneos said on March 29, 2010 at 9:43 p.m.

I am very content with these changes, tee hee =)

#38
Realpolitik said on March 29, 2010 at 9:44 p.m.

Does Capcom want Daigo to switch mains? lol.

#39
Hrm said on March 29, 2010 at 9:44 p.m.

The problem with complaining about certain buffs/nerfs and changes is that we can't really base our opinion on how they work against other buffs/nerfs and changes.
While the fact that Gief's banishing flat has been nerfed seems like it came out of left field and is completely pointless, there has to be a reason. Maybe against the other characters' changes, his banishing flat was too powerful? Maybe this evens things out a bit?
But who knows. We'll see once it's released.

#40
NobleEskimo said on March 29, 2010 at 9:50 p.m.

I'm stoked for this game and the balance of power that it will bring!! My loose, incomplete tier prediction, based on everything I've seen so far:

Top - E. Honda, Dudley, Seth, Akuma, Ibuki, Abel
Mid - Everyone except who I listed
Bottom - Dan, Claw (still), Makoto, T-Hawk

#41
spanish_ninja said on March 29, 2010 at 9:50 p.m.

WTF!!! they took away ryu's double fire ball trap??? its in 3rd strike why not here?
:( i guess cuz u can parry in 3rd strike. oh well...... *tear*

#42
Put_Elena_in_SF said on March 29, 2010 at 9:52 p.m.

Not sure why banishing flat should be nerfed, at least he ex version. Maybe the regularversion was too good against one of the non-fireball characters for closing space?

#43
Watchtower said on March 29, 2010 at 9:54 p.m.

-Chun-Li has an improved Far Standing Medium Punch

Just thought I'd state that again, get it nice and drilled in.

#44
chickenwings said on March 29, 2010 at 9:56 p.m.

@hrm

Green hand leaves gief very open on block and the recover leaves u alot of time to punish him. Its not like it was safe on block or even plus on block and its not like it hits as hard as sagat tu's. Of course we dont know how it will balance versus the other changes but then again, look what they did with sagat and ryu in regular 4. And then lets consider the other characters, how would the current green hand give him an advantage? For most of those fights he prob wont use it outside of combos.

#45
recovery said on March 29, 2010 at 10:09 p.m.

Ryus will finally need to use skill to win, instead of having a shotgun, bazooka, Gatling gun, and Uzi all at the same time

By the way, do you guys not realize how over the top Zangief's Ultra II is?

That alone justifies a nerf on his other moves

#46
ratedRsuperstar said on March 29, 2010 at 10:12 p.m.

hell yea nerfs to gief thats great

#47
xShonuffx said on March 29, 2010 at 10:15 p.m.

Chun Li has an improved Far Standing Medium Punch, That could mean anything. Im assuming it beats out most move. This should make approaching Chun much difficult.

d/f lk now knowcks down air born opponents. Ok im a little mixed on this one I just wish they got rid of it so I can d/f lk without doing the move, however it will be a great tool for Kikosho since it loses a lot of damage priorities in combos, you can just d/f lk and Kikosho and probably get more out of it. The question is how effective is the d/f lk versus jump ins cuz it's not that great and barley any priority over things.

#48
Sakura said on March 29, 2010 at 10:15 p.m.

@#24

yes...I was kidding...

Ryu's nerfs are long overdue...

#49
Jerm said on March 29, 2010 at 10:17 p.m.

Chun-Li- improved st. medium punch and improved crouching kick??!! EXCELLENT!!!

And maybe that df. lk will be more useful now...I hated that move...

#50
SoundwaveButcher said on March 29, 2010 at 10:26 p.m.

haters gonna hate

like online,here 80% of comments are ryu users :/

#51
emend004 said on March 29, 2010 at 10:35 p.m.

In the giantbomb video from last week E Honda's regular headbutt passed sagat's EX tiger shots (not just his Super)

#52
DecoyLogan said on March 29, 2010 at 10:41 p.m.

Damn, more Gief nerfs. The guy has to work for his wins and now they nerf his best tool and (pretty much) only combo ender. =/ Not to mention the regular versions of the Banishing Flat are pretty punishable. Oh and a worser version of his jump.....

#53
yes4me said on March 29, 2010 at 10:48 p.m.

All I see is that ChunLi will be top tier of the SF4 cast

#54
jgunz said on March 29, 2010 at 10:51 p.m.

i can finally understand whats going on with the nerfs. they did said the game is more offensive now. so we gotta work harder for those moves n stuff. instead of blocking blocking wait for a ryu to hadoken trap or lariat getting hit by spins everythings all defense there for oponents if u see. but now it's just straight offense i think ya can see a lil bit what im talking bout. also matches will be kinda longer n more intense. before if u can see lets say a bison kick seth like 8x he's dead now we gotta just work more lmao.

#55
Teapo said on March 29, 2010 at 10:52 p.m.

I'm not about to say the tier lists are absolute truth, but why is the character 4 points away from Ryu getting only buffs? Of course I'm talking about Chun Li (sorry I'm gonna rant a little). I seem to catch Chun Li users always talking about how she needs a little more to be on par with the rest, but honestly there is a reason she is ranked so high. Great control of space, good combos, and good combo damage. This character 4 points away from Ryu is getting even better pokes (which confuses me because standing medium punch was already a good poke) and she has a new ultra (which is rather weak I admit) that can be setup anywhere on the screen from nearly any combo for one EX bar. Anyone who plays a character with a mash move seriously can tell you they are pretty easy to take full advantage of when you learn a little about effective ways to get all the inputs. EX Legs as an Ultra setup is about as easy as it gets outside of stuff like Rufus doing a taget combo to ultra, or Galactic Tornado in the corner.

I'm willing to bet this game will rock and have pretty solid balance. Probably even better than SF4 (which is one of the most balaced fighters ever), but this just seems like a odd message to send. They get rid of easy to abuse stuff for some characters, but add really easy to abuse stuff for a solid character.

It'll probably turn out fine.

#56
THawk said on March 29, 2010 at 11:02 p.m.

Couldn't agree more Teapo.

Seems messed up, but we just gotta wait and see.

#57
Ex_Ein said on March 29, 2010 at 11:12 p.m.

Ken is meant to be the stronger one anyway I can still beat him so no biggie

#58
Chow said on March 29, 2010 at 11:12 p.m.

Thank you Capcom.

We all appreciate the fact that fireball traps are now just full screen spammage.

Thanks for giving a grappler a godly way to get in and score a knockdown while he's at it.

Thanks for nerfing Gief's Green hand, even when it was negative frames on hit.

Thanks in general for just doing stupid crap.

#59
Raius1 said on March 29, 2010 at 11:13 p.m.

The Ryu nerf doesn't bother me. He was always my fave, and it was actually really annoying that they made him so good in vanilla. Now he'll be what he's supposed to be: the all-around, workhorse character: no glaring weaknesses, no overwhelming strengths. The Gief nerfs are a little worrying, but he would have become the new S-tier if they'd just left him alone. However, it seems to me like the original cast is all getting some really nice fine tuning, but throwing Dudley into the mix throws everything off. 1050 health? Great mix-ups, plays best offensively in this supposedly more offensive game? The most damaging, most combo-able uppercuts? Multiple ways to Ultra, with and without meter? Where's his weaknesses?

#60
cuttyb1987 said on March 29, 2010 at 11:14 p.m.

The balance for this game came at the expense of the casual players so if stf4 was the beginners what will sstf4 be for the noobs??? I never felt that sagat was cheap he has always been that way. I played ryu in all the stf games even in third strike and now he will suck and have low damage output and have weak ultras and weak supers I can't wait to hear people complain about dudley lol

#61
NA said on March 29, 2010 at 11:19 p.m.

@Noble_Eskimo

I am not citing this to attack you, but...why even bother making a tier list that is based on nothing? All we have go on are a handful of gameplay videos and rumored changes, and even less officially confirmed changes.

I know people loving playing theory fighter, but tier lists take a lot of time and a lot of data to produce. We won't hae any kind of real meaningful tierlist until months after the game is released anyway.

#62
RyuTheGreatestEver said on March 29, 2010 at 11:20 p.m.

you gotta roll with the punches when youre the greatest ever.

last year i metsu'd the usa's balls off and put them in a jar.

then i ebay'd them for 50 yen.

this year someone might buy them. =]

#63
griever2000 said on March 29, 2010 at 11:20 p.m.

@Clovr4Lyf #57

they should be something between the characters Dudley and Rose :-)

#64
kurokiba said on March 29, 2010 at 11:25 p.m.

I can actually see potential in the hitbox from lariat being heightened... stop me if this doesnt make sense: train your opponent to punish the power lariat with a sweep. then use the quick lariat a little out of their range. they should move a bit to try and punish you.. BOOM!!! SPD!

#65
canabalistic999 said on March 29, 2010 at 11:27 p.m.

@teapo

That comment was exactly what i was thinking, well said. it does sound weird now but they made SF4 pretty balanced(very balanced considering every other fighter out right now) and i trust capcom to continue to do a good job and make things more balanced and a overall better experience. I bet SSF4 will be amazing even if some of these nerfs sound rediculous right now.

#66
PainKiller said on March 29, 2010 at 11:35 p.m.

I wonder how did they nerf gief green hand, recover time ? to basically kill weak green hand after a spd ? ex green hand ? kill range, damage, invul frames ? that is cheap, people can mash a shoryuken reversal after a weak green hand hit, I know no gief that use normal green hand in combos or to destroy fireballs, they block you get raped, it hits, they mash... no good mind games with the damn reversal system this game have, you mash on a crouch low kick, on a close medium punch, on jump knee, mash on everything, better just block when you have frame advantage, mash 50% of the time and gief have to rely on luck of luck jump to score some damage, they problably removed the short jump, not intended on the game anyway...

makoto players will be pissed off too with random reversals dp coming out of her normals.

#67
DontHateOnMe said on March 29, 2010 at 11:39 p.m.

gatta agree with cuttyb1987... ppl need to realized that they nerfed EVERYONE to make things more balanced.. the only ones they didnt nerf was chunli and like 2 others because those really needed the buff.. if ur a good guile and gen player then the nerfs shouldnt effect you too much, plus no one knows if they got a buff here and there...sagat was a boss in the previous street fighters so stop compiling about that hes too strong (btw im a ken player not sagat).. bottom line, if characters stood the same or got a big buffsthey would be too overpowered in ssf4.. ps: i was watching a video and i saw gen do a jump hard kick into hands on geif.. and it took an INSANE amount of health..on GIEF..GEIF... ridiculous.... so i guess they buffed something for gen for those gen players..

#68
machineking1313 said on March 29, 2010 at 11:41 p.m.

I am ok with all the nerfs except for the one where Zangief has lost HP, that doesnt make any sense.

#69
Garr31 said on March 29, 2010 at 11:42 p.m.

Loling at the people crying about Ryu getting nerfed.

#70
DontHateOnMe said on March 29, 2010 at 11:43 p.m.

whoops.. just realized how dumb that soundz.. SAGAT is too powerfull.. he should have goten more nerfs.. i take back the sagat part from my previos post ;)

#71
SteadiestShark said on March 29, 2010 at 11:53 p.m.

@ 4

In the latest Honda SSF4 videos I saw, his normal headbutts go over Sagat's low tiger shots too.

#72
geodude said on March 29, 2010 at 11:54 p.m.

great nerfs... i'm luvin it

#73
MANDINGO said on March 29, 2010 at 11:55 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#74
Jaf said on March 30, 2010 at 12:01 a.m.

The double fireball trap was pretty strong...oh well, it's still easy to hit confirm his Super. Not that I use him though...Guile, Honda and Vega all the way!

#75
THTB said on March 30, 2010 at 12:03 a.m.

Removing the super trap from Ryu is kinda stupid. It's probably removed since super is so good as is. Supers in SFIV tend to have some broken properties lol (shinku hadou is a fast, damaging projectile that is advantageous on block...yeah).

Ken's LP shoryu improved for comboing? Nice.

Gief's green hand and jump nerf makes little sense. Gief struggles to get in, but they must feel he doesn't struggle enough.

Chun's buffed d/f+LK can be very useful...if the hitbox is better.

Shorter distance on LP ball is probably to make it easier for Blanka to inch forward while having an attacking hitbox present.

#76
padplayer said on March 30, 2010 at 12:05 a.m.

Nerf's to the giefer????? hmmmmm I wonder if it is going to be a good thing or a bad thing?? For all you now half the people think it's to weakin him. What if it was done to balance him. and give him better play. I can understand the Larait was alil over the top!!, but what do you expect poor giefer needed it so to fight.All them fireball spaming!!!! burning fist was ok,but like some said why the nerf on that. change in jump.... bad move for me!!!! It's one of the one of the few ways of getting in w the giefer. Poor giefer!!! I hope it's for the best. I understand a really good giefer player would rocked w out the changes ... I'm still hoping that giefer still is THE RED CYCLONE!!!!!!!!Daaaaaaa!!!!!!!

#77
Guile said on March 30, 2010 at 12:05 a.m.

Ryu nerfs are equivalent to getting a pat on the wrist. No good reason to complain about this hes still still going to be top tier.

Chun Li buffs = unnecessary. What the hell capcom!?!? Its just not justified- she was already a decent, balanced, mid-high tier character. why the unnecessary buff? Great, 3s all over again.

what is up with the gief nerfs? people say hes powerful but they dont realize that while his tier ranking is kind of high his tier matchups are also very unbalanced. He has some of the hardest matchups in the entire game and this is probably going to make them even harder. Hes definitely not a spoiled vanilla SF4 character who has it easy all across the board like Sagat, so I dont think he deserve to be nerfed as badly as he was. 1100 hp = joke, gotta be at least 1150 hp.

#78
joker101 said on March 30, 2010 at 12:27 a.m.

I haven't seen this much whine since visiting Napa Valley.

#79
GrimmjawJin said on March 30, 2010 at 12:30 a.m.

Sometimes I really wonder what the fu(k capcom is really thinking. Nerfing shotos is probably for the best but why do the same for the already weak characters (cammy, gen, guile)? Chun-li buffs make no goddamn sense as she was already a high tier to begin with.
Fu(king 3rd strike bullsh!t.

#80
YoungCharly said on March 30, 2010 at 12:34 a.m.

Good stuff.

I haven't seen any "nerfs" for Ken and Chun-Li though, but I could be mistaken. If not, then these characters will rise in the tier list like crazy.

#81
Bolton said on March 30, 2010 at 12:44 a.m.

waitaminute, where does it say that they are referring to honda's super? i was under the impression that his special move headbutt will go over sagat's low fireballs??? it doesn't seem to indicate the super move specifically...

#82
WorstGiefEVER said on March 30, 2010 at 1:07 a.m.

:/

#83
xShonuffx said on March 30, 2010 at 1:09 a.m.

# 88

They nerfed some of Chun Li's damage, they dont' mention it but if you look at the french videos of Chun Li there are some damage scaling that exist for Chuns moves like EX Legs and such.

Don't know about Ken but I know all Shoryu punch damage has been lowered across the board so it's not just Ryu. Hell Cammy got the worst 100 on all Cannon Spikes.

#84
sabrewulf said on March 30, 2010 at 1:17 a.m.

i think that gief nerfs were necessary, hes way too good against almost any non-fireball charactherm, his bad matchups are really fireball happys and seth

#85
DanceInTheDark said on March 30, 2010 at 1:19 a.m.

Yay ^_^ I can't wait to use Chun Li ^_^ She is gonna be so amazing in Super

#86
Gunga said on March 30, 2010 at 1:24 a.m.

Oh boy, my man Gief is gonna be a little harder to play with but hell, i guess i cant complain.

#87
chickenwings said on March 30, 2010 at 1:29 a.m.

chun is gonna be a problem without any improvements, a few low shorts in ex legs ultra will bump her up the tiers.

#88
Smorgasboard said on March 30, 2010 at 1:37 a.m.

I guess everyone else here has tunnel vision the way they seem to see only the one change to each character.

i.e. They said Chun will be focused more on her normals. But damage is pretty down across the board and it makes sense that they also nerf the damage on her specials too. Do you still consider Chun Li buffed then?

i.e. They said that Zangief will be more of a grappler character than a heavy hitting one. The first thing that could mean is removing all combos into Green Glove but still keeping it as a good way to get in. His trial is going to be really boring though so maybe it could be something else. I have no idea what the jump change means though.

In the end, Capcom is not giving us the whole picture and we are not considering it.

Game coming out in a month. Don't need to shout at everything. Just chill.

#89
Unabel said on March 30, 2010 at 1:38 a.m.

If gief's second ultra beats out shoryuken/tu's... ultra buffer much on EVERY jump in?

And i dont see a fix to blanka getting punished ON HIT with his ballz. Heres to that news... quick.

#90
Smorgasboard said on March 30, 2010 at 1:41 a.m.

Also important to note that they are using Ryu as the center of the balance universe. So, he should have no bad or good matchup. Let's see how well they get it right this time.

#91
SteadiestShark said on March 30, 2010 at 1:43 a.m.

@ 98

It seems like just increasing the hit stun or speeding up the recovery animation would fix that. I'd be surprised if they didn't fix that problem due to the sheer obviousness of possible changes...

It should still be punished on block though. Screw free pressure/chip damage!

#92
chickenwings said on March 30, 2010 at 2 a.m.

increaseing recovery on the ball needs to be done regardless.More then half the time u cant use the ball. Never mind thats it slow as hell and u can punch him out of it. It shouldnt be free but honestly give me something.

@99

Useing him as the center of balance doesnt mean he doesnt have bad match ups. It just means that they use his tools in comparison with the rest of the cast to balance each fighter. So in reality ryu shouldnt have the best of anything, but he should have solid everything. The problem with capcom is the last game they just made him freaking super shoto, and i doubt they will tone him down to where he should be in this either(he should have been ken with more of an emphaize on the fireball). Just hope that he isnt as bad as regular 4

#93
Cascadian1106 said on March 30, 2010 at 2:16 a.m.

@97

I have seen the videos and frankly the only move that showed crap damage was Kikosho which was absolutely fine since a lot of her victories against characters don't involve her using an ultra anyway except against trigger0-happy fireball spammers which in high-level play is almost non-existent once they see an ultra-ready Chun. Everything else I've seen her dish out seemed to have done the same amount of damage as in Vanilla. Chun doesn't rely a lot on her specials anyway unless she uses them as part of her combos and mix-ups with the exception of Kikoken which she uses to zone or apply pressure. In any case, I'd be guessing that her St.+MP poke will now stuff every normal in the game and has an even improved range like her Cr.+MK. Finally, if the rear spin kick's hitbox has been improved, then goodbye jump-ins as they're in for a nice, new and easy to utilize anti-air without the need for a meter and a charge and then a quick Kikosho follow-up. Welcome back 3S Chun!! =)

#94
zUkUu said on March 30, 2010 at 2:29 a.m.

could ken in sf4 also combo fromm f.hk?
the move is so bad i never saw it someone using.

#95
benjee said on March 30, 2010 at 2:35 a.m.

"Ken's Light Punch Shoryuken had it's frame data properties improved"

Ok that's ridiculous.

#96
Nelaelu said on March 30, 2010 at 2:42 a.m.

I hope Chun-Li won't be a female Sagat in SSF4. She wasn't bad at all in SF4 and yet she gets bunch of improvements. At least I hope her easy-to-use ultra is REALLY weak...

#97
duckmouth said on March 30, 2010 at 2:46 a.m.

Does Honda's EX Headbutt go through projectiles now?

#98
IMX said on March 30, 2010 at 2:50 a.m.

With all these nerfs Gief got, it sounds like the Sagat v Gief matchup just got harder. Against a good Sagat player its too difficult to get close even if the gief player can do Kara green hand. The super air grab wont even come into play if your opponent chooses to run away

#99
Nelaelu said on March 30, 2010 at 3:19 a.m.

1. I'm worried that with all his nerfs Zangief will get worse match-ups than 3-7... (unless projectiles will overall get less spammable)
2. Zangief's stamina 1100 and Dudley's 1050... really?
3. I'm not a Gief player, but I hope he won't become a dead end character

And once again... I hope Chun-Li isn't too good

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