HellTPM and W00tsick took a closer look at some of the M. Bison Super Street Fighter 4 videos that have hit the web to figure out the damage differences from his move sets in vanilla Street Fighter 4. Here's what was found so far.
Damage nerfs:
Standing Close Hard Punch: 100 damage (-20 from SFIV)
Standing Hard Kick: 100 damage (-20 from SFIV)
Far Standing Hard Punch: 120 damage (-10 from SFIV)
Crouching Medium Kick: 65 damage (-5 from SFIV)
Slide: 100 damage (-10 from SFIV)
Light Scissor Kick: 90 damage (-10 from SFIV)
Damage buffs:
Hard Punch Psycho Crusher: 140 damage (+10 from SFIV)
EX-Psycho Crusher: 150 damage (+10 from SFIV)
Also, there's a video showing a huge improvement on the hit box for M. Bison's Psycho Crusher, and coupled with his new Ultra 2 not being a charge move, that's probably why some of his moves got a damage reduction.
"Bison's ultra 2 makes up for his nerfs"
in other words
"We expect you to ONLY use ultra 2"
in other words
"If you use ultra 1, then you are using a weaker bison from SF4, since you will have the same ultra plus nerfs"
in other words
"Adding another ultra allows for different styles to be used"
is complete bull.
Why even INCLUDE Bison's ultra 1 if capcom themselves don't intend you to use it and even nerf Bison in order to justify his new shiny ultra?
This doesn't make sense. I'm hoping something else has justified these nerfs. I mean, these are his NORMALS. And he is a mid-tier character that has no FADC>ultra combos, no overhead, and relies primarily on high risk/high reward shenanigans and a strong pokes.
Maybe his ultra 1 is better but nobody has noticed... or maybe his pokes have better priority now... otherwise... what the hell capcom?
I shouldnt even bother geting this game now. He does crap dmg as it is, now there gonna kill his normals? Did the dev team forget that this is BISON, hes SUPPOSED to do alot of dmg since he has CRAP defensive options. What a dam joke. Psycho crusher being fixed doesnt justify the nerfs, it should have worked in the first dam game.
@3
"noone has so many huge damageing normals"
Really? I'm not even going to justify that with an answer. Okay, I'll give one example so it doesn't look like I'm trolling... how about Sagat's standing HK?
Not only does it do more damage than Bison, but it hits twice (so you can't focus it), has more reach, is a better anti-air, and, well, is just damn good. I'm not positive which has better startup/recovery because I don't really pay attention to frame data, but you have to admit it's one of the best normals in the game. And there are many many more. Just think harder. Think Chun! =P
I wouldn't look at damage nerfs for a specific character too critically right now. Tons of characters got significant damage nerfs, along with the average damage of ultras. It seems that, on the whole, damage is going to be reasonably less in SSFIV than it was in vanilla.
That said, we have to look at hitbox changes and animation changes before we can fairly cry nerf on Bison.
The only way that would justify these nerfs if:
1. Better headstomp tracking
2. DR Crossovers
3. Better throw range similar to the other games.
4. A overhead.
5. His standing HK has better priority for anti-air.
6. His Psycho Crusher can be used as a anti-air attack.
If they fixed all of these, then I can accept the damage nerf.
@jarkytta
Dude, in sf4 bison doesnt do alot of dmg. Alot of other characters out dmg him plus they have alot better reversal options. Hes supposed to have solid high dmg pokes, he has no reversal without meter and he cant fadc into anything worth wasteing 2 ex stock. And dont even get me started on the scissor kick nerf, it being safe doesnt mean crap when ryu can mash a dp and fadc it safely and get a ultra or a free way out. And them fixing the hit box on the psycho aint gonna do anything unless it works just like it did in turbo. Hes gonna end up being the new guile in ssf4.
#12/14 - ROFL
#13 - Already confirmed that 1,2,4 are out. PC has a much better hitbox and is faster, so it's very likely a better AA.
Also, we still don't know whether these nerfed-damage normals have better hitbox/frame/combo properties or not. So whatever, we'll know on 4/27.
@sakura
All the stuff he listed is things bison has been doin for 20 years. Dont forget skull crusher was BETTER and that also crossed up and gave huge dizzy.
I'd remind you that we're only looking at most 40% of the picture. You can't fairly assess nerfs in this game unless you know frame data and hitbox data, too. If they gave his normals better hitboxes/priority and reduced the damage in turn, it might have been a welcome change. Other characters, especially ones with DP's, have had much more dramatic damage nerfs than this.
@Posted by on1on on March 28, 2010 at 4:03 p.m. #4
thats why selectable ultras are stupid, sf3 it was the same thing, nobody would pick a weaker one for more "strategy BS"
its dumb... should go back to alpha days.. where u pick the super depending on the situation
at @13
do you want a psycho crusher -> FADC -> ultra 2 with that ? oh and a psycho uppercut ?
people need to stop asking for so many stupid stuff (by that I mean buffing too much their main or favorite character). Some characters get buffs and nerfs because capcom wants the matches to last longer (that's also why the ultra does A LOT LESS damage when combo-ed with other moves)
LOL, @ Sakura, I wish they bought back the Psycho Shot from Alpha. That is the only reason I 2nd Guile because I am so use to the Psycho Shot over the Psycho Crusher.
Anyone that mains Bison knows those things that I said are very reasonable. His Head stomp from SFIV was complete BS. As a opponent, when I pull off the head stomp, all you do is to simply hold back. You do not go into block, but you simply walk back making it easy punishment. No Street Fighter in history ever had this problem with the head stomp like this game.
I am forced to use dirty tactic in IV to make up for the overall nerfs in comparison from the other games.
@19
Dude, his normals are already good. How much better could u make them? The only normal that could use adjustment would be his low fierce, speed it up to anti air and presto bisons normals are perfect. Unless st rh has invic frames or it flap out stuff dps the nerfs are gonna drop bison to crap tier.
@24
Dirty tactics isnt the problem, bison just isnt as threating as in other games(mainly turbo). He doesnt do enough dmg/dizzy and the teleport they gave him to even him out in sf4 is freakin horrible. And dont forget that these dirty tactics are risky, and with this game being super turtle friendly that takes u to places u dont want to be.
bison,
you must also remember that's a weakened version of bison not the one from alpha with full strength
@28
hum no I won'T stfu because you can't just accept the nerfs if you don'T like them just stay on sf4 and forget about ssf4
it's not like capcom will look at your comment and apply the changes base on that (exactly what happened with akuma 2nd ultra staying, counter ultra still in the game gen / guile and other character nerfs etc)
oh and maybe you forgot but Ono said that if the community doesn'T like the changes/balance, ssf4 will be suited for DLC
so you stfu and wait to try the game before going for a rampage for no valuable reason
Christ. One of the best players I know of is a Bison user and he renders a lot of the claims here concerning how poor Bison is in IV patently false.
In the hands of this player, Bison is a machine. These nerfs to Bison (by way of reduced normal dmg output) will give his many victims a slight fighting chance though Bison's effective Ultra II (which does not require charge) will make him truly terrifying once he's packing a charged gauge.
In the right hands Bison is not garbage. In Super he is going to be significantly better. Keep in ind that dmg reductions are occurring across the entire cast and are by no means specific to Bison. You will find the dmg nerfs will ratio out somewhat equally across all characters.
@32
I wouldn't think so, her new ultra is more for comboing, the damage ouyput on that IMO is sh!t
I can't believe any comments here are claiming that M. Bison has overall low damage in SFIV. Simple math shows this to be patently false. He hits hard with normals and specials, and EX Head Stomp in particular is brutal.
Minor decreases in damage to his normal moves is not much of a price to pay for improved Psycho Crusher utility and damage; finally it may begin to approach the value it used to have in some earlier Street Fighter games.
@griever2000
U said "you must also remember that's a weakened version of bison not the one from alpha with full strength". What kind of douche bag uses the story to justify character strenght?
@31
Dude, bison is a machine versus who? Where is the tier placement for the characters he runs over? The only thing bison has that worth mentioning in sf4 is lite scissors cause its safe, st forward and st rh. Thats it. And if u watch the tiers bison has done nothing but drop, That scissors loop only works on 1)people that dont know how to deal with it 2)other crappy characters.
I know what to do. Be a scrub like everyone else and main ryu or balrog. Then i dont have worry about anything.
@irrenmann
Thats only because of st rh. Look at his combos. bnb 3x short scissors doesnt do more dmg then rh. So unless there gonna turn up his dmg on all of his specials theres no reason to nerf the normals.
Damn some people sure know how to over react....You've only been given so much information and its not even the whole picture.... So relax a bit..Plus seeing a lot of stuff about the game it seems to me that a lot of things have had a damage Nerf , so relax dudes.
idk why people complain so much about nerfs. Bison isnt the only one...ryu, akuma, cammy, gen also got nerfed pretty bad...its something everyone has to deal with...people complain that they arent gonna buy a game because their main seen nerfs...like seriously?? what are you 12?? if your character seen nerfs just adjust your game!!
@31
Bison isn't bad, but he is no where near his potential and I don't see many people using him on tournament level other than me and some other guys I know.
As you can see, he started pretty high on the mid tier list, but suddenly got dropped later down the line. I feel I am using him at max level as much as I could. I play mind games with the tick throws, but it's only so much you can do with him and he doesn't seem to have the options like the other characters.
If they truly fix some of his hit boxes, especially his standing HK, this that can give some hope.
But if they truly did not fix his headstomp, even a little, nor give him is DR reverse, I don't fully understand the goal of Super other than trying to correct poor code from the original.
Who knows though, I will be one to test the full capacity of Ultra II and it does seem promising. I still plan on using him at EVO.
@33
Being able to combo into an ultra is part of what makes it good. The "low" damage on the kikoshou is negated by the fact that you can hit one every time you hit ex-legs provided you have meter.
I'm not 100% on the mechanics of Bison's ultra2 but it just seems like a beefed up ground hitting version of fuerte's ultra1.
@40 - best of luck to you at EVO mate. I have a lot of respect for solid Bison players. I strongly feel his Ultra II is going to be a monster. The fact that its a motion command means you're likely going to be able to land it on reaction against projectile throwers which is going to make Bison quite the handful.
High tier? Perhaps not quite, but still a very solid (and stylish) character.
@35
it'S not about justifying for the strength of character or anything like that. It's just the follow up of the story and that's it.
post #24 said "LOL, @ Sakura, I wish they bought back the Psycho Shot from Alpha". Well he can't have it because Bison his now weakened since sf2
makes sense ? yes
plausible ? yes
does that mean the story has a meaning for some characters in street fighter ? yes
it'S the same thing for ryu: in alpha there was 2 version of him, in sf4 his ultra have a link with the satui no hado since they are metsus attack and in sf3 his doesn't have these skills anymore because the satsui no hado is gone
I don'T see why the story could actually have a meaning behind a character's strength or anything else. It's not being a douche bag it'S just common sense
people should more complain about hitboxes than damage reduction imo.
Man, nerfed damage all over the place. I wonder how long a single round will take in SSF4 X) You have to beat each other like 3 minutes to inflict enough damage for the KO XD
@50 - yes, I'm starting to think the same thing. The reduced damage suggests to me that we may start seeing a lot more clock victories.
Conversely, reduced damage (hopefully) means players will actually be motivated to attack more rather than continue with SFIV's stand-offish style.
Lol at all the people griping about Bison. Bison is really good in SF4, its just that nobody uses him to his potential. His HK and his Ex head stomp in particular are wicked fast and brutal. His ultra has almost zero start up time and is real easy to catch people off guard with. Maybe he has issues at high level tourneys, but not everybody is at that level. You guys just want to whine about something. There are other characters that are in far worse shape than him. I'm a Cammy player and so far it looks like I'm gonna be finding someone else to play with.
You people saying how these nerfs are justified don't know anything about Bison. There's really nothing that could justify these nerfs - Bison has no real advantages is basically a solid mid-tier character. Nerfing other characters' damage doesn't make up for it, because Bison's nerfs hurt him more because 1) he is an OFFENSIVE charge character, meaning he has to drop his charge and focus on normals quite often, and 2) he has crappy damage to begin with. Everyone fears s.rh, so most people have learned to get out of range or duck it. Bison does little damage. No one gets his by stomps, etc. You guys are scrubs if you think that that random damage counts for anything. Most of his damage comes from people trying to get away from him when he has got in range or are cornered (by some odd miracle). Let's not forget about his lack of defense. Bison is high risk/low reward, and that reward just got smaller. Buffing PC is almost a joke considering the larger picture unless it's a real AA, which it most certainly isn't; PC has always been beat by normals from the air in every SF.
I'm Commander Shepard and I approve of these changes.
Hmm...this is coming from someone who doesn't use Bison, so take it with a grain of salt.
The damage nerfs are extremely minor, but don't make sense. Bison's issue already is that he lacks damage. Of course, his offense is definitely fairly strong. His offense actually is a nightmare to some characters, but as it stands, he needs all the damage he can get.
On the plus side...the better Psycho Crusher can prove useful. It was already really bad, so to see it improve is indeed a good thing. It could possibly serve as a better anti-air with the better hitbox.
IMO, Bison's new ultra is kinda problematic in that it's far better than his current ultra. From what we know...it doesn't promote variety in Bison's case.
Ultimately, we don't know all the changes to Bison, or all the other characters for that matter. We can't say anything...but I do know I'm incredibly excited to see all that happens. It only takes one seemingly small change to change everything.
God so many whiners. Stop complaining FFS he'll make it for it with his second Ultra as I think it's the best new non combo Ultra. The reason why there are so many complainers is that because these are all average and casual players. They have the best people in the world testing these guys out everyday. Stop acting like you're a professional sitting behind your computer thinking you know everything. All I ever hear on this site is nerf this, buff this, do this, when half the people here probably can't even beat a flowchart Ken. So many complainers when they heard Ken has more invincibility on his DP. Stop spamming, learn to block and stop pressing buttons all the time.
Once again....negative comments about something that ..one the game has not yet come out..two if have of the people that have comment on here havint even play SSFIV yet,then way complane....for all you know the nerf's and change's may make Bison a good playable character.... Stop taking smack on something tht you just hear about and not have had the chance to get your hands on... really come on know!!!!!! bunch of baby. the funny thing is once you [play ssfiv you'll be like man m. bison rocks now. Remember Capcom focused and put alot of time into blancing the characters!!!!!Hello... soOOO! wait for the game to come out play M. Bison and then if you don't like what Capcom did then take smack. I hate reading all the negative comment..when you havint even played the game..
lol @ the people who act like its the end of the world if anything of there character gets nerfed and just ignore the stuff thats getting buffed.Everyone in the game has something thats been nerfed.Look at rufus you dont see people crying over ex-snake and messiah being nerfed.capcom knows what there doing.
Once again....negative comments about soething that..for one!!! the game has not yet come out..Two if half of the people that commented on here havint even played SSFIV yet,then why complain about something you havint even gottan your hands on!!!!For all you now,M.Bison's nerfs and changes may make him a good playable character!!!!!Stop talking smack!!!!!about something that you hear about and havint gottan a chance to give it a playing chance!!! bunch of babys!!!!The funny thingis once the game come out and you play you'll be like Man M. Bison rocks!!!!Sooooo!! wait for the game to come out give M. Bison a chance then if you don't like what Capcom did then talk smack!! Remember Capcom focused alot of time on balancing the fighters for a reason!!!!!! I posted this again cuz I typed it out to fast.."THIS PLACE WILL BE YOUR GRAVE!!!"
@65
alot of people already said it, if capcom knew what they were doin sagat wouldnt have been what he is in sf4 and sf4 guile wouldnt be the worst verison of him ever.
Theres nothing overpowered about bisons normals and dmg to begin with. His hit boxs are fine, and if they nerfed the dmg to improve the hit boxs then thats really gonna over power him since his moves already have solid proirty. Pyscho crusher needed a fix(another thing that should have been fixed by capcoms all star play testers) and both the hell attack and low fierce could have used some tweaks, but at the end of the day his biggest problem in the game is doing dmg. So a dmg nerf will just screw him more. Ur only gonna get so much mileage out of tick throws and other bs tricks, theres a reason no one uses him in tournamnet play any more, or did people forget that valle was useing him way in the began before he figured out that ryu was scrub proof.
I must say, I am NOT happy.
As everyone else mentioned, Bison doesn't do a lot of damage and relies STRONGLY on offensive pressure. PC is not a pressure tool. SK is. Why nerf the damage of his best weapon, light SK? Plus his other best move, s.hk? It makes no sense and making PC work the way it originally should have is no excuse for it.
This would've been acceptable if they gave Bison a launcher because that would be enough to counter-balance. According to early reports, that is not the case.
im assuming there gonna nerf hondas dmg too. Last i played him i got about a quarter bar off of ryu with a 3 hit jump in(jump fierce low forward cancel to fierce head butt).
Wow im trolling hard, but honestly i cant be more disappointed. I was really only excepting adjustments for the top four(rufus kicks into snake strike was a bug so that isnt a nerf) with fixs/buffs for everyone else. But now there nerfing characters that are barely tournament worthy. yea i know they left the door open to update the game with patchs but why should they have too?
WOW CAPCOM? WHO IS MAKING THESE DECISIONS ON BALANCE CHANGES? CURIOUS GEORGE? WHY NERF SOMEONE'S DAMAGE WHO ALREADY DIDN'T DO ENOUGH DAMAGE IN THE FIRST PLACE? Giving PC A "Slight hitbox adjustment" or making his ultra a "Double QC" motion doesn't justify anything. So now, Bison has to work even harder for his wins and EVEN HARDER to comeback after taking damage?
From my experiences Bison has out-prioritized me on at least 70%-75% of my normals regardless of who I am. (except maybe Sagat).
While this may not mean a whole lot, getting poked multiple times from especially his mid kick and fierce kick adds up damage pretty fast. Couple this with scissor kick which:
1. Safe on block
2. Hits twice, negating focuses
3. Hits airborne opponents
4. Easily combo'ed into
5. EX'ed goes through projectiles
I think he did need a little nerf, those damage amounts don't look like their THAT much different so I don't get the rage... and yes Psychocrusher did need that boost, has there been any word on if it's priority has changed? I know a lot of moves currently beat it clean.
@72
Dude, scissors doesnt beat focuses unless im on top of u, and even then if u release it as soon as he goes into scissors u can knock him out of it, and depending on the spaceing if hes too far away it will only hit once meaning u get a free crumple. And my favorite thing about scissors is that u can be thrown and jabed out of it. And no scissors doesnt hit airbourne anything. St forward and rh is good but depending on who u have u can poke back, u just have to use the right move. Last night screwing around with blanka i was able to beat st rh with low fierce and low strong, so dont act like i can just mash it out and beat everything.
I main bison and i think the nerfs to the normals and L scissor kick are bad. He did need all the damage he could get. So im thinking capcom made everyone weaker; We saw this with the shotos so yea, its not really a big deal.
@everyone saying his 2nd ultra is way better than the 1st. IMO you can still use both for different situations. The 2nd is good for the projectile spammers, but if they have no projectiles, it might be bettr to use the 1st one. The first one is good for combo-ing and you can use it as a reversal or punisher.
All charge character moves should take more damage than alot majority of the characters in the game. I say that because a level 3 focus take lots of damage and you hold it about the same time as a charge move. It does not add up to nerf a charge characters move when its like using focus attacks the whole match. People like Bison, Vega, Rog its like using a focus attack when you play with them because you have to charge moves so it makes sense to let a charge attack take more damage because you hold the buttons. I say this for all charge characters. Capcom going on this nerfing spree. Who's next?
@73
The people I play with that play Bison purposely don't scissor kick when far away because they know it's easy to focus the last hit only. When up close, I have yet to see anyone able to correctly predict, react-to, and successfully, focus a double-hitting scissor-kick. I won't claim it's impossible, but I've never seen it. (theres probably vids online of it somewhere)
I could've sworn I've been scissor kicked at least with the first hit when trying to escape by jumping back so I thought it does hit airborne.
I do agree being jabbed or throw out of it is pretty shenanigans and we always have a good laugh when it happens. Unfortunately I don't play as, or against him very often so I may just not know what I should about him. Maybe I'll start learning him..hmm..
@ the neck the same way you controls el fuertes ultra with the joy stick or d p pad front and back to go as far as u want it
@baiko
Theres a reason u dont play against bison often LOL. Hes better then alot of characters but he has alot of holes in his game. Just like blanka(another of the so called high tier, until people figured out he sucked and droped him), i honestly havent fought one in about a month and i play alittle everyday. Jumping away will leave u open to get hit by anything, but when u said airbourne i assumed u were talking about jumpins, and it loses to those.
bison is a good character and the nerfs are way covered by usuable PC.
New ultra looks really good, saw a video of full screen fireball being punished.
Ryu will suck in sstf4 and Bison had a stupid nice HK that was easily spammable so I see why they did that in a sense of fairness cuz if everyone's SRK is nerfed why not all spammable moves... Balrog headbutt did that get nerfed or what?
yup, thats the price you pay for being the greatest ever.
but fear not, the shoto army will still reign supreme.
BTW the game isn't out yet and this specualtion either good or bad makes the hype for this game unwaitable lol ( is that a word) lol
So Bison fans will wait like Ryu fans and Sagats fans for either the good or bad I can't wait to see what they did for Abel supposedly his COD is safer on block
okay this guy came up with this from watching videos on youtube and people are getting excited. How many claims are you guys going to hear from different ppl who played the game for 10 minutes and take it as fact only to hear a week later that its BS.
@Greatestryu ever naw man the only shoto that was worth picking outside of Ryu was Akuma and Ken doesn't count in the tourney scene and it seems in super the game will be open for debate and I think the tier list will fail this time around.
@ RYUthegreatestever I will join ur shoto army and with ken but will not follow the ken flow chart lol do u play 360 or ps3 ... what's up free1up I know kinda mad about bison nerfs man u be doing damage with him not so much with ken
Nerf/changes/improvements. You never know which it is until the game comes out.
Well many special moves were nerfed, it would make sense to nerf some normal moves to balance out the damage. A bison fierce shouldn't do as much damage as the current Cammy Cannon Spike LOL. I'm sure most normals will be nerfed in the game. At least matches will be a little longer.
I've heard the day Bison graced your village was nerfed to a Tuesday.
wow...everyone's complaining hard. i would suggest y'all should start a bison support group but that would be pointless. joking aside we still haven't seen the full picture. for all we know it could make bison better. april's around the corner so lets wait till the came comes out. still dissapointed that there's no elena but i'll get over it once the game is released. if push comes to shove then dont buy SSF4...just keep playin SF4 thats all. problem solved. happy gamin y'all :)
no complaints here.
in fact.. THIS IS DELICIOUS!
"A bison fierce shouldn't do as much damage as the current Cammy Cannon Spike LOL. "
Unless Ryu's normals have also been nerfed, Ryu's standing HK does more damage than Bison's standing HK. The same is true of Ryu's HP vs. Bison's HP.
Maybe these changes were justified if Bison's hit boxes were fixed (so that his HK actually worked as anti-air or his j.MP actually had any chance of hitting), but otherwise it appears that Capcom simply wanted to the tiers as they were in SFIV.
Guys I know we are pretty pissed by Dicators nerfs, but I gotta say it it wasnt done Bison would be high tier. We are undersetimating the mindfcking that his new ultra will cause for shotos and turtles mistime 1 hado while im charged and you eat a psycho abortion. They may now have to approach and attack Bison which I think Capcom is encouraging by nerfing his normals. Dictator will remain my main.
All I have to say is the rest of the cast better get damage nerfs on all their normals as well. Bison was already known as a low damage character, so I don't see why they would lower the damage on so many of his normals.
For my part, I didnt really care that the PC was 'useless' in SF4. I only used it after s.HP and 1 x j.MP so it served its purpose for the punishing part of my game.
Fair enough it is annoying that Bison's normals have been weakened but that sets a challenge for all us Bison players to prove that we really are better than the competition.
IMO, if you are complaining about all his downgrades, you are focusing to much on trying to beat others rather than improving your own game.
Think of all the dedicated Sakura players out there... cough cough. They are aiming to be the best Sakura they can be and we should be the best Bison we should be regardless of if we have a 90% or a 30% win rate!
If you want to win so dearly, you should have picked Sagat to start off with.
what really pisses me off is not the fact that bison got nerfed a bit( well ALOT lol) because like #115 said we are bison players for life, meaning we dont abuse the teir list. we chose bison for a reason. i chose him because ever since SSF2T he was my main. i sucked ass with him but thats beside the point. anyways what really pisses me off is that the top teir whores arent gonna be playing with sagat anymore and now they're probably going to use dudly or juri or whoever is the next god teir. thats what i hate the most. people who abuse the teir list should be banned from SF
"Bison is Mid Tier" ROFL i cant believe people who play bison complain, just ridiculous. hes easy mode until you have to play a skilled shoto, and even then hes better off then most characters.
i would trade lower normal damage for a better psycho crusher hit box any day. that new ultra kinda reminds me of abel's ultra 1, but it goes over fireballs instead of through.
Lol at the whining. Seriously, competent Bison players will take this one on the chin and carry on with their game as they used to, nothing going to change on 20 damage.
I know I'm not worried in the slightest, in the long run, it's still fine for Bison when you consider a lot of his bad matchups have been hit with the nerf bat.
Just out of curiosity, does anyone have a list of other characters that have had damage nerfs to their normals? A lot of people have been saying that the nerfs are "across the board", but I'm having trouble finding this info. I know about nerfs to specials such as SRKs and Snake Strike, etc... but can't find a list of people's normals that have been nerfed and by what degree.
@123
Maybe because our characters have been around longer, done a lot more for capcom, have a lot of dedicated fans, and are not now given the respect they now deserve and have earned.
that being said, these nerfs are stupid unless the nerfs on normal damages are all across the board which is perhaps the case (guile himself got his st fierce punch 20 damage nerfed to parallel the standing hard kick 20 dmg nerf here)
@123, STFU. most of these guys complaining are doing so because they have been playing a character for years and they are almost forced to switch characters because capcom screwed their character up so bad they dont play anything like they should (read: have for the past 20 years). ofcourse you arent hearing complaining from guys who have mained ryu and sagat since hyper fighting, they have it good here. bison doesnt have half the tools they do. the FADC system is not exactly in their favor, their moves dont work as advertised, their normals dont work as advertised (minus bison far s.hk and even still...).
bison might not be as bad as guile, but i can see why the bison players gripe. its the opposite of my situation having decided in CvS2 to learn balrog.
I dont like Bison so I like this. I also do not like his new ultra.
But seriously has ANYONE confirmed any changes at all for for Blanka?? I mean come on someone post something, even if he is confirmed all the same.
bloody hell. people on her whine so much. You should see the insults that srk,ipw and hadoken.net members give us. People on ehubs are so annoying. If this site is anything to go by than i cant blame capcom from doing what they do sometimes.
Anyway......Heres a big collection of new SSF4 gameplay videos:
http://www.youtube.com/user/sakuragi0kun
haters gonna hate
everyone got nefed/balance/damage scale
play world warriors the damage and 3 hit stuns are beastly capcom did scale stuff down in subsequent games
these changes are interesting to say the least if they're accurate. If they are, well:
SF4 Bison: Character with decent pokes, garbage air game, one working special, slightly lacking crossup game, low risk/low reward character who had problems against down back and couldn't come back in this game once he lost the lead
to
Super SF4 Bison: Character with decent pokes with even less damage, 2 working specials, slighlty lacky crossup game, garbage air game, low risk low reward character who can possibly come back with a working ultra.
So... they made a mid tier character... mid tier again? Ah well, if he doesn't lose to guile freely, i won't be as mad. (Anyone who mentions headstomp, just go record bison doing headstomp, and walk backwards when he gets close. it's really that bad)
Hmmm,if it is true that they have fixed bison hit boxes and priority then these nerfs are justified...until then people need to stop crying until the game has came out,if bison is still the same as he is now,then you bitch to capcom but if is better over all then great.
I honestly do not have a problem with Bison's normal move damage output. The problem I have is with this stomp, especially his ex-stomp. His ex-stomp does way too much damage such a high priority move. It already has invincibility at start up. Why does it do more damage? It's ridiculous. Hope they'll nerf that instead of his normal moves.
@138
I LOLED
DECENT POKES? s.hk and s.mk one of the best pokes in the whole game. and they do more than enough damage.
j.mk is a creat crossup, and with the PC changes u'll be able to crossup easizly with it aswell.
also, U2 looks like it'll be one of the best ultras ingame.
and headstomp is a very good attack, not if u spam it, but then srk is also fail. it's a great anti jump in vs mid air oopponents. als ex dive / hs has some nice invincible frames. bison is one of the best zoning chars, he isnt meant to rush down another opponent with pure force and close combat. space the distance to your liking, and poke / hit and run him down.
@zUkUu
yeah, decent compared to better chars normals, like akumas, chun, rog, and ryu
hey, i'm excited about a workable ultra for bison too, but i don't think it'll be one of the best in the game. it'll probably work like akuma's or fuertes, which take away options from your opp. Either way, he finally has something to make a comeback with
After watching dudley i really want to now why bison would even be considered for a nerf.
@138 - Well said.
@zUkUu - It depends on the character you are facing. Zoning works for characters where you have greater range, other characters such as very good Vegas, you will literally have to chase plus the rush down works well against rookies.
Again, as I stated before, the Head Stomp sincerely can use some work. It's not 100% bad, but there are too many unnecessary wiffs in this game. The most annoying thing is you can simply walk backwards freely while the headstomp is activated without activating the block animation.
Everyone naturally hits back, it seems that if a person is aware of a headtomp coming, they should at least do a double back dash, but the game makes it that even a beginner can sometimes cause a wiff.
This isn't the worse headstomp in Street Fighter History ( I give that to the Marvel vs Capcom series with the recovery frames) but you really have to be aware that your stomps are going to wiff easy.
If it's true that Capcom didn't fix this issue, I am at least hoping they fixed the hit boxes so that I can do a better zoning game against high level players.
And to be honest, I am feeling positive about the nerfs because when you really start playing, Bison must have some type of new edge that will most likely help him to be more tournament worthy this round.
Thank goodness alot of nerfs. Damn! More Buffs.
@teapo
Dude, bisons biggest problem in regular 4 is his dmg output. If anything they should have left his dmg alone or atleast steped up his dizzy. He has crap defenses and his dmg output doesnt warrant taking risks(play turbo, u will see what i mean). Dont tell me hes supposed to zone cause as soon as u fight someone with a fireball all that crap goes out the window. And the teleport is ass, most characters can still hit u out of the recover frames of it so ur better off blocking. Giveing him the dmg still wouldnt help him versus guile but with that extra dmg bison can still threaten guile enough to make the match closer to 6/4. That risk reward gameplay that mad bison fun isnt there.
I was about to have a heart attack when i started reading this sht but its not that bad cuz one of the other news post says that all character got their damage nerfed to make the fights last more, so this is just normal now the psycho crusher working as an AA, the long missing tool in bison's arsenal could be enough to put him high in the tier list and now he has that second ultra that will help punish fireball throwers apparently, thats gonna be coool so im really happy with all these news
Chickenwings if you are actually directing that at me I can't help but laugh a little. I use Bison in Super Turbo and SF4 I know he has problems now, but that would be why I said thank goodness overall he didn't lose anything. I could be mistaken but it does look like he got another buff for psycho crusher (I could be wrong) in the form of it being safe on block. Maybe it is just fools playing so it just seems safe, but a move that can cross up on wakeup, that is safe, and sets up grab or fakeout could help a lot too.
Also lets not forget the constant message that shows up in interviews. They want matches to last longer via people doing less damage and needing more reads to seal the deal. Super Turbo Bison is the opposite of that. One combo does half health and dizzies then you do it again to win. He had crap defense, but you could win with one right guess. Obviously you aren't looking for that extreme change, but fast damage and dizzy is what the developers keep saying they want to avoid.
Bison can struggle now, but I go to him because I like his style. If I didn't I would use another character. That seems to be a tough lesson to learn around here. If you don't like a character when you get some real time with SSF4 maybe you shouldn't use the character you don't like. Heck if you don't like the game at all maybe you should play what you like. I still play super turbo now and then alonside other fighters. Different games bring different tastes.
guess i was wrong. time to start a 'bison support/releif club' lol. really is all this whinnin needed? i wouldn't be surprise when (capable) bison players not only take time to re-learn him, they will also put the othe wanna be bison players to shame. wait till the game comes out & play bison. dont be surprised if you forget all bout this silly '-10 points of damage from s. hk'. just man up bison players or the REAL bison players will make you cry & re-think bout usin bison. peace :)
Psycho Crusher hit box fix is nice, but damn, so many nerfs...