Shoryuken.com's MrWizard has come through with a list of some gameplay changes in the final build Super Street Fighter 4.Abel: Crouching Hard Kick is faster. His Ultra 2 can't combo but its fast and has armor if you hold the button, it looks to be very good.
Adon: He seems very weak. Both ultras are hard to use. Jaguar Tooth and Jaguar Kick are both unsafe on block. Aerial Jaguar Kick might be safe. EX-Jaguar Kick is safe on block. Has a very good overhead though, one of the best.
Akuma: No known nerfs. Many of the nerfs from earlier builds were reverted. Infinite is gone, but you can still combo after far Standing Hard Kick again. Light Punch cannot link to Hard Kick anymore though, so you cant loop it. Level 2 Focus Attack into new ultra whiffs, but works from Level 3 Focus. EX-Air Fireball into Ultra 2 will combo.
Balrog (Boxer): Ultra 2 can be jumped out of on reaction after activation. His Ultra 2 is bad, it has terrible range. Seemed too hard to land to be worth giving up his Ultra 1.
Blanka: Seemed the same, his Ultra 2 isn't that great. He can be thrown out of it.
Cammy: Spiral Arrow (Cannon Drill) got a little better. Cannon Spike (Dragon Punch) damage nerfed pretty hard. Her Ultra 2 is terrible, it can be broken by moves that are Armor Breaking.
Chun-Li:- She got 'infinitely better'. Her Ultra 2 combos easily, all day. Up Kicks target combo goes into Ultra 2, as well as EX-Lightning Legs anywhere on the screen. It's very dangerous. Ultra 2 gets all 20 hits every time, if it whiffs for a while and you get hit by the very end of it, you still take the full damage.
Cody: He can only Focus Attack Dash Cancel his Tornado Uppercut on first hit and the tornado wont come out. He cannot combo Ultra after it. Has 3 levels of charge on his Zonk Knuckle, and its really really good and annoying. He says BINGO every time he does it. You can combo into it too. Hard Ruffian Kick is good.
C. Viper: No notable changes. She can land her Ultra 2 off EX-Seismo Hammer if you are fast. The recovery from Ultra 2 is ok. Rumors of Medium Punch Thunder Knuckle nerf are untrue or reversed, if its slower — its only by a frame or two.
Dan: Dan is secretly way better now, he got what he needed. Dragon Punch, Focus Attack Dash Cancel, Ultra 2 is strong. His fireball goes 60% of the screen now. The rest seems untouched, but this is 'all he needed' to be a contender.
Dee Jay: He seems decent. Nothing too bad, nothing too good. Reminds you of Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo in that way.
Dhalsim: He seemed the same. His Ultra 2 hit box is pretty small. Super hard to hit with.
Dudley: Not much to add to Justin Wong's video, but he is probably #1 in the game.
El Fuerte: His normal moves are all faster now. Ultra 2 is extremely good.
E. Honda: Noticed no changes, but opponents can't jump away on reaction to Ultra 2 once it's activated.
Fei Long: Changes not apparent. Counter Ultra can be broken by an Armor Breaking attack.
Gen: Only nerfs found so far, no chain combos, no Standing Medium Kick, Cancel into Hands at all. EX-Wall Dive lost some invincibility.
Gouken: No known nerfs. Ultra 2 is still blockable, but backthrow into 5 hits of it into wallbounce into more fun works.
Guile: He seems to have been given nothing. Sonic Hurricane, his Ultra 2 is not good. Super into Ultra 2 is the only known combo into it. Down+Taunt puts on glasses, but doesn't give him any buffs or advantages.
Guy: Feels slow. Has cool chain combos into his Super. EX-Spin Kick is vertical. EX-Shoulder is his best move, super fast.
Ibuki: Slide does not go under fireballs, air dagger throw doesn't cancel out fireballs.
Juri: Kara throw is good with Hard Punch. MrWizard could only find a 5 hit Custom Combo in Ultra 1 mode without Focus Attack Dash Canceling. Ultra 1 mode is really long in duration. EX-Wheel Kick seems to have a nearly instant startup. Hitpoints seemed close to Ibuki's, but it was hard to tell.
Ken: He is not looking good, they didn't give him much. He cannot Focus Attack Dash Cancel to Ultra 2 normally. He didn't get crazy kicks from previous SF games. They slightly improved his fireball.
Makoto: EX grab has 1 hit of armor! Outside of this, nothing to add to JWong's video.
M. Bison (Dictator): Jumping Medium Punch into Ultra 2 works. Its not a charge motion so its very handy. Ultra 2 is a blockable stomp attack, and it can crossup! It hits hard, too! No known nerfs.
Rose: She can juggle off Soul Reflect into Soul Throw or Ultra 1 or EX-Fireball. Ultra 2 is very good. Can corner juggle into orbs. Each orb can hit once before it dissipates, including on block. They do about 20% damage each when your ultra meter is full. MrWizard noted that he needs to check what happens when projectiles hit them. When the orbs activate, there is a delay before you can do special moves again, including throw. They delay felt like 3-4 seconds. Orbs cross up very easy. Rose seemed powerful.
Rufus: EX-Messiah Kick is not as good, but still good. A few frames less on invincibility, and less damage. EX-Snake Strike damage is way down. Ultra 2 doesn't seem to combo well. Ultra 2 is a good anti-crossup or anti-air move, but that's about it. Has to work more for wins now.
Ryu: Ryu's Medium and Hard Dragon Punches hit twice now. Damage is down on it, but if you Focus Attack Dash Cancel, you only get one hit from it, so damage is down even farther. Trades into Ultra from Dragon Punches are gone, and most trades into Ultra from Street Fighter 4 are gone, but not all. Puts you in a floaty state, and you can't combo after wards.
Sagat: He does marginal less damage overall. Scar-uppercut does double damage, nothing more. If you do scar move, you can't do it again until you uppercut, but you can store the powered up state the entire round if you want. Towards + Hard Kick still puts your opponent into a juggle state.
Sakura: Her crossup Jumping Medium Kick is back. Very good cross up move. Makes her feel more like Sakura again. Ultra 2 is the best choice, it's two ultras in one. Okay damage, easy to combo, can aim it up or forward. EX-Hurricane Kick to Ultra is simple as hell.
Seth: Everything is the same, except his Focus Attack takes longer to hit at Level 2 now, it's not very good. Ultra 2 can combo anywhere you could combo stomps and does good damage.
T. Hawk: Condor Dive is his armor breaker. Tomahawk Buster (Dragon Punch) cannot be Focus Attack Dash Canceled at all, ever. Ultra 2 is bad, very, very, hard to hit. Feels slower than Zangief but stronger. His normals are very good.
Vega (Claw): Seemed the same. His Claw stays on a lot longer now, though. EX-Wall Dive off the wall doesn't go through opponent anymore.
Zangief: Very similar. He could Lariat trade into Ultra 2 in earlier builds, but he cannot anymore. Rufus and tall characters can block his Lariat low and punish with a Crouching Hard Kick.
Hakan: Seems OK at first. Has a 360 move where he puts you in his arms and squeezes you out with oil slicked body. you fly across the screen at a 45 degree angle. He can slide along the ground face first and hit punch during for a followup (only when oiled up). Has an air grab where he belly flops. Dragon Punch motion + Kick puts on more oil.
He takes out both hands and dumps oil on himself and it looks funny. He then glows white. When he has oil, he is 200% better. putting oil on takes half a second, and its duration based. EX-Oil lasts a long time. In non-oil mode, he is like Zangief. When he is in Oil Mode, he can chain everything, like Crouching Light Kick 4x into Medium Punch.
Moves in oil mode have more range, including 360. Front and backdash are better in oil mode too. All of his pokes have neutral and toward versions. Has a 'trap' ultra, where he lays down, and if you step on him, he grabs you. You cannot touch him at all, even if not attacking. You slip on his stomach like its ice. Then he 69s you as you slide along the ground and you fly out his buttocks.
The 2nd ultra is comedy as well. 720 motion, throws you up in the air and you board the OIL COASTER. You ride him going around his body till you are ejected into a wall at the end.
His Super is double fireball with kick. Its a leaping grab that's crouchable, like Alex DDT he leaps at you.
Posted by WorstGiefEVER on March 10, 2010 at 2:27 a.m. #1
What I want to know is, if Zangief jumps in the air and a shoto does a shoryuken, if Zangief activates ultra 2 in the air, will it beat the shoryuken?
Posted by akumous on March 10, 2010 at 2:31 a.m. #2
As an akuma player I am glad with this build of him and the rest seems OK and balanced. Thank God they bring Ryu down to earth and make him less perfect.
Posted by Zegram on March 10, 2010 at 2:31 a.m. #3
ffs capcom, buff Zangief & nerf that broken blanka already!
Posted by tommyjesus on March 10, 2010 at 2:35 a.m. #4
wow, apparently from many sources, guile still blows.
nice job capcom. you effin' douches.
Posted by pengu on March 10, 2010 at 2:35 a.m. #5
Lack of E Honda changes makes me sad :(
Posted by Nirusu on March 10, 2010 at 2:39 a.m. #6
"Guile: He seems to have been given nothing. Sonic Hurricane, his Ultra 2 is not good. Super into Ultra 2 is the only known combo into it. Down+Taunt puts on glasses, but doesn't give him any buffs or advantages."
GRRRRRRRRRRR !!! -_-' Guys, I hate capcom...
Posted by Catalyst on March 10, 2010 at 2:42 a.m. #7
Guys, relax a bit. Wizard got to play the game for a day, there's NO WAY he found all of the changes Capcom made to the game in that period of time.
There's plenty more things waiting to be discovered.
Posted by Charleekun on March 10, 2010 at 2:44 a.m. #8
"Cammy: Spiral Arrow (Cannon Drill) got a little better. Cannon Spike (Dragon Punch) damage nerfed pretty hard. Her Ultra 2 is terrible, it can be broken by moves that are Armor Breaking."
FUK you, Capcom...FUK you very hard...
Posted by fenris on March 10, 2010 at 2:48 a.m. #9
Dude i guess guile wont be my main for long
Posted by yflow on March 10, 2010 at 2:49 a.m. #10
Damage is down on my DP and my DP trade ultra doesn't work anymore. Why? There's a very simple solution to not getting hit by both of those, but I guess now scrubs can just keep on jumping at Ryu.
Posted by FearTheBadgers on March 10, 2010 at 2:52 a.m. #11
It just makes Ryu a little less TOO good.
Why doesn't Vega's EX Sky High Claw go through anymore? That doesn't make any sense... I hope it still gets the knockdown.
Posted by tommyjesus on March 10, 2010 at 2:52 a.m. #12
guile will be my main, regardless.
i'll just be pissed and i'll i think i'll wait to get the game on ebay. eff capcom.
Posted by Nirusu on March 10, 2010 at 2:53 a.m. #13
We can't flashkick, SADC to sonic hurricane with Guile?
Posted by Badr on March 10, 2010 at 2:53 a.m. #14
capcom "oiled up" some the characters in the a55
Posted by Zaruka on March 10, 2010 at 2:54 a.m. #15
well good job capcom take away gen bnb and dont even give the man his chains well seems they fuk my character up just good.
hopefully this guy who got to play is wrong on a lot of things.
Posted by fenris on March 10, 2010 at 2:54 a.m. #16
@10
let them jump, getting hit with a level 2 focus into your combo of choice will teachem. Plus im sure jumping medium and fadc will still work so i dont think your gonna be any worse off
Posted by MokiSenpai on March 10, 2010 at 2:57 a.m. #17
It's funny how they break Ryu in half, but Sagat still has his roundhouse into ultra and a DP buffer move.
This was the main reason why Ryu is good, couse' he can come back from a losing situation... but... not anymore. They nerfed his fadc ultra combo. Guess the light DP into ultra still works, couse it's not a trade.
And finaly, they nerfed Cammy a lot. No random bullpies and lag abuse with lucky dp-s and stuff :D
Guess there aren't any new moves for the characters... bummer. I mean, you have now a wall bounce system.
But, i don't really care. Makoto seems okay, Sakura is better, Ibuki is godlike, Guy good... i will get by somehow :D
Posted by Token on March 10, 2010 at 2:59 a.m. #18
ooooooh im glad guile got fixed lol
Posted by h1tm0nl33 on March 10, 2010 at 3 a.m. #19
...that was the last thing gen needed was a nerf
Posted by yflow on March 10, 2010 at 3:01 a.m. #20
@11
Look at Ryu's matchup data. Yes, everyone has to work to beat him, but he also has to work to beat everyone else. He has quite a few 5s across the board. I wouldn't really call that "too good."
@16
Using focus to counter jump ins is a bit risky. When I see my opponents doing that, I jump in with an attack and follow up with an uppercut that comes out before they release the focus attack. If I do it, I could end up eating the ultra. If I'm throwing fireballs, sometimes DP is the only thing I can get out fast enough to someone that thought it was a good idea to try to jump over one.
Ah well. I'm gonna get the game regardless, so I'll wait to play it before I QQ more.
Posted by MokiSenpai on March 10, 2010 at 3:02 a.m. #21
And Ken stayed the same, with a crapy new ultra... Damdai gonna be pissed X)
Posted by FearTheBadgers on March 10, 2010 at 3:04 a.m. #22
@20 Maybe I'm just prejudiced against Ryu's trade DP Ultra seeing as I play Vega.
Also, no way should any Ultra get beaten by an armour-breaking move. Especially counter-ultras. By their very definition they should be better than regular ultras as they can't be comboed into, and you need to know when to activate them to hit.
Seth said that patches were an option? This is going to most likely get patched I'd say.
Posted by FrynkieDeuce on March 10, 2010 at 3:05 a.m. #23
whoo Joke characters gonna be top tier?
Posted by canabalistic999 on March 10, 2010 at 3:06 a.m. #24
im liking the look of changes for the most part but even though i dont play guile or cammy i think capcom should have buffed them a bit i mean at least make his ultras more combo-able like off of a anti-air Flash kick. and cammy's cannon spike should not have been nerfed from when i play against her online its the only aspect i have problems with it feels like she would be very weak without that aspect. and just as speculation i really think fuerte is guna jump up the tier listings with a new very good ultra and faster normals. and i still strongly feel that vegas claw should do extra chip damage. Just my opinions on all this
Posted by yes4me on March 10, 2010 at 3:08 a.m. #25
Haha Cody=Landa from Inglounous basterd
Posted by Charleekun on March 10, 2010 at 3:09 a.m. #26
Omigosh, Counter Ultras being broken by an Armor Break...what kind of joke is that? the next change what will be? Cammy and Fei Long's Ultra I being nerfed too?
Posted by FearTheBadgers on March 10, 2010 at 3:10 a.m. #27
I play Vega, and while I think it seems like his claw should do chip damage, it's not like Cody's knife, where you have to pick it up, and if you get hit once you drop it. Vega's holding it from the very beginning, and it takes a good bit of time for him to drop it.
Now, if his claw did chip damage when his mask was off (as well as the current 10% damage increase), I would be 100% okay with it.
Posted by Sairus on March 10, 2010 at 3:14 a.m. #28
"Rose seems really powerful"
*sniff* Oh how I've waited to hear those words.
Posted by Kuei on March 10, 2010 at 3:16 a.m. #29
Nerfing my main Rufus makes me a saaaad panda. Looks like I'll be moving on to one of the 3s chars or Dee Jay
Posted by Forte on March 10, 2010 at 3:17 a.m. #30
No changes to guile?
Thanks gonna switch to deejay.
Posted by yes4me on March 10, 2010 at 3:22 a.m. #31
All I read was:
Rose, Dudley, ChunLi, Sakura are good
Gen, Guy and Guile are bad
Sagat no real change
Posted by rpgfighter on March 10, 2010 at 3:24 a.m. #32
Lets go Dudley!!!
I might need to play around with the rose orbs if they are anything like Striders ouroboros and Oros Tengu Stones...
Posted by cactusjack on March 10, 2010 at 3:30 a.m. #33
so no real changes to guile i mean for me then theirs no real excitement 4 this game(and i was really hyped 4 this game)but that statement has put a real downer on it 4 me.
Posted by KenScrub on March 10, 2010 at 3:30 a.m. #34
Pff I don't need any buffs. DRAGON PUNCH FTW.
but on a more serious note. fk u capcom for nerfing my cammy. So much for the Sagat being turn down. Sounds like hes still going to be the same. Its nice to hear Chun li is gonna be better and same with Sakura. Also changes to Ryu is very welcome. Maybe people might play more then just Ryu you now. Sad to hear Akuma isn't being nerf that much. I seriously hate him. Think its awsome Dan is getting buffed up a bit too. GO DAN! and lol at ppl still qqing about Guile.
Posted by KilerG2000 on March 10, 2010 at 3:37 a.m. #35
hopefully he is wrong about guile because as cactusjack wrote, my excitement 4 this game is also centered around guile.
Though its a huge let down, will jut have 2 wait and c 4 our selves. :(
Posted by Someday on March 10, 2010 at 3:38 a.m. #36
LOL
Breakable Counter Ultras, blockable Denjin, Tazzmania Ultra?
What next?
They are ruining the game, or ruined already if thats all true.
Posted by Chrisophrase on March 10, 2010 at 3:42 a.m. #37
man capcom know nothing of balance! its not like vega will have better match-ups now because he can hold onto his mask for longer,
i bet the only reason they nerfed the lower teirs is because it probably didnt work well with some of the new characters. i can imagine-
'What gen has an infinite combo on dudley? i know! we'll just take away that move...Bingo! job well done, deadline achieved'
Posted by DBoX on March 10, 2010 at 3:46 a.m. #38
SSF4 seems more unbalanced, it contains a lot more stronger characters and a lot of characters that don't have much to work with.
Posted by Speedwagon on March 10, 2010 at 3:47 a.m. #39
From who?
Posted by rpgfighter on March 10, 2010 at 3:48 a.m. #40
They had to make the denjin properties different because if it was unblockable that would be too broken and you could not do anything and you would just take hits.
It was fine in 3s because all you had to do was just parry. You obviously cant do that in this game giving you no way to counter it if he does a LK hurricane or LP SRK then charges denjin. He would get free hits, you would probably stun and then he will go into a combo for serious damage. It would just be unfair.
Posted by rpgfighter on March 10, 2010 at 3:49 a.m. #41
Oh my comment was directed to Someday btw. :D
Posted by DasolC on March 10, 2010 at 3:51 a.m. #42
- two hits on ryu's srk?
- dash punch doesnt combo into hard srk?
- trades into ultra being removed? really? metsu hado only did like 398 at full meter, its not like sagat doing 600
= F*CK YOU CAPCOM
Posted by Psycho on March 10, 2010 at 3:52 a.m. #43
@ 14 OMG I LOL'd so hard!
Posted by MokiSenpai on March 10, 2010 at 3:52 a.m. #44
If your character has a two, working legs... you can jump over it :D
Posted by sectionz on March 10, 2010 at 3:53 a.m. #45
Ken cant fadc combo into new ultra? LAME!
Posted by youngtuna on March 10, 2010 at 3:53 a.m. #46
lol @ 36
it's good to see the real names on scrubs now that you have to register
Posted by Psycho on March 10, 2010 at 4:03 a.m. #47
I was expecting Guile to link or cancel or whatever you call it, his cr. MK into his new ultra just like in Cvs2 and blanka in SFIV I guess was wrong :( also didn't they say that Guile's normals were improved? isn't that a good thing? i don't know cuause I'm not a Guile player.
Posted by Cammy on March 10, 2010 at 4:04 a.m. #48
Oh, my... So my cannon spiked got damage nerfed? That was my main weapon!
Not thrilled about the fact that my counter ultra can be hit, too. =/
Seems like I'll have a way harder time getting wins now.
Posted by KilerG2000 on March 10, 2010 at 4:04 a.m. #49
@ 14 True story man looool
Posted by Speedwagon on March 10, 2010 at 4:04 a.m. #50
I no longer fear Sumo Headbutting into a counter Ultra. Feels good man.
Posted by Arrancar on March 10, 2010 at 4:10 a.m. #51
I wonder high Dan will move up in the tiers. Hakan's ultras so risque.
Posted by M_Bison on March 10, 2010 at 4:11 a.m. #52
I could have swore they said they were giving Ken a new move. If by new move, they meant his ultra2 then F-CK YOU CRAPCOM.
Posted by chymer on March 10, 2010 at 4:14 a.m. #53
I hope that just temporal version...
Posted by MAXOUT12 on March 10, 2010 at 4:15 a.m. #54
wow opinionated the whole way through its like reading fox news i swear thanks srk for giving us your spin on everything instead of letting us decide.
Posted by DBoX on March 10, 2010 at 4:17 a.m. #55
What exactly does it mean when they say "Trades into Ultra from Dragon Punches are gone, and most trades into Ultra from Street Fighter 4 are gone"? I don't know much about SF terminology.
Posted by FearTheBadgers on March 10, 2010 at 4:24 a.m. #56
It means say if you jump in at Ryu and he hits you with a Shoryuken, but at the same time you hit him with a move. The moves will trade and you'll both hit each other.
Ryu used to be able to connect an Ultra after these 2 moves traded. Not any more thankfully.
Posted by Zaruka on March 10, 2010 at 4:26 a.m. #57
yea hopefully they took sagat trade out too but who cares my character got nerf to hell rest in peace gen it was good knowing you.
it funny how they made him wrost it seems then in sf4. i would do anything to have the alpha 3 version of gen in the game.
Posted by staticjack on March 10, 2010 at 4:29 a.m. #58
speaking of trades..... I guess a flash kick trade to ultra 2 is not an option for Guile :(
Posted by Cammy on March 10, 2010 at 4:31 a.m. #59
I want my Cannon Spike damage back! T__T
Posted by Someday on March 10, 2010 at 4:31 a.m. #60
@ rpgfighter
Okay, but you cant land it at full damage anyway.
Only 5 hits after throw with minimum damage?
Why you should prefer this one over shin shoryu?
My guess - this ultra must not exist at all.
Big fail.
Posted by Charleekun on March 10, 2010 at 4:37 a.m. #61
@Cammy (60)
I want it too...there's no other character I enjoy more to play with like Cammy...
Posted by rkilla on March 10, 2010 at 4:38 a.m. #62
its funny how guys bitchin about how the game is unbalanced and never played the game...thank god rufus got nerfed...lets see how many people gonna start goin on the hakan wagon once they hear hes good
Posted by Chryo on March 10, 2010 at 4:44 a.m. #63
Hey #55 MAXOUT12 aren't you the guy that was constantly defending the "awesomeness" of counter ultras in the SRK forums and got constantly rebutted?
Butthurt much?
Posted by Psycho on March 10, 2010 at 4:45 a.m. #64
Vega (Claw): Seemed the same. His Claw stays on a lot longer now, though. EX-Wall Dive off the wall doesn't go through opponent anymore.
Seriously Capcom is this a buff to you? Fck if Vega ends up low tier again I'm not playing him anymore, I'm sick of the stupid nerfs in this game!! I guess I'll play Dee Jay or Dudley for now.
Posted by Mune on March 10, 2010 at 4:46 a.m. #65
Sakura sounds much better! Hell yeah.
Posted by powderedtoastman on March 10, 2010 at 4:47 a.m. #66
wonder what the start up on El fuerte ultra would allow him to cancel run and ultra 2 before they can jump on reaction.. would be pretty neat to have them guess between an ex guacamole or ultra with the rest of his wakeup game to lock down a character even more so when they get the hang of blocking your shenanigans.
And for rose ultra2 would the ultra dissipate from block damage or stay until full hits are achieve/timer if their is one?
Posted by FDream on March 10, 2010 at 4:48 a.m. #67
This is whats balancing is all about.
Low tier > mid tier
Mid tier > high tier
High tier> high/mid tier
Im preordering right now
Posted by MagnetoHalfway on March 10, 2010 at 4:48 a.m. #68
So glad Rose got a few buffs!!!
Posted by Psycho on March 10, 2010 at 4:53 a.m. #69
Please give Vega a good anti-air for god's sake!!
Posted by Charleekun on March 10, 2010 at 4:55 a.m. #70
@FDream
You forgot this:
Cammy&Fei Long > Bottom tier
Posted by MAXOUT12 on March 10, 2010 at 4:55 a.m. #71
@ Chryo
Not realy considering that the attack is still very usable i love when players think something is impossible just to have it proven to be very possible. But i guesses before anyone will belive that the counter can work well we have to wait until justin or dagio falls into it.
still though i would of liked just the facts without the opinons attached to it all the time from srk
Posted by InfernoDivider on March 10, 2010 at 4:55 a.m. #72
lol all i read was he lost this she lost that, so what was this their brilliant idea of rebalancing the characters? just getting rid of moves?
Posted by SoundwaveButcher on March 10, 2010 at 4:56 a.m. #73
abel got faster sweep?
Posted by KSWreQLazZ on March 10, 2010 at 5 a.m. #74
Wow if he is right the nerfed Ryu hard I mean they took out most of the stuff Ryu needs and people are just all happy but then will be complaing when every scrub is playing with dudley and but raping everyone u might as well call dudley the new sagat both are probaly going to be s Rank
Posted by MokiSenpai on March 10, 2010 at 5:02 a.m. #75
Why Cammy, so you can spam them again for free for nonsense damage? :D Learn some combos, an setups for her and stop rely on lag :D
Posted by Gadouken on March 10, 2010 at 5:04 a.m. #76
they ruined gen
Posted by darko_p86 on March 10, 2010 at 5:06 a.m. #77
well I wont be surprised IF capcom didnt give guile nothing but his 2nd ultra. they hate him for some reason. its just what i expected from capcom to fuk us over. i just hope this wizard is wrong about guile. nevertheless, ill still main him
Posted by Smorgasboard on March 10, 2010 at 5:06 a.m. #78
But is it more fun to play?
Posted by SomeDude on March 10, 2010 at 5:11 a.m. #79
I'm pretty sure people will just stick to the shotos and won't make the switch to Dudley
But he does have a DP....hmmm
We'll probably see more Ken's than Ryu's because he (according to the notes) stayed basically the same with an improved hadouken.
But I'd rather lose to a Dudley than to a Ryu/Sagat.
Posted by gfmolon on March 10, 2010 at 5:16 a.m. #80
Nice Akuma Guys.
realy nice.
Posted by BK on March 10, 2010 at 5:21 a.m. #81
hell yeah. my girl sakura is gonna be a monster now. im almost scared to play with her. im gonna be even deadlier with her now. prepair yourselves.
Posted by shinryu on March 10, 2010 at 5:27 a.m. #82
chun li sounds godly, and sakura/rose sound pretty good too. This is gonna be interesting.
Posted by Cammy on March 10, 2010 at 5:31 a.m. #83
@ MokiSenpai on March 10, 2010 at 5:02 a.m. #76
Cannon Spike IS my combo. All my best combos ends with a single Cannon Spike or FADC-Cannon Spike/FABDC Ultra
=/ So taking away damage from the Cannon Spike will have a serious implication on all my combos.
Btw, Ultra 2 won't be useless, but, serious, why do armor brake moves have to be able to hit it?! Doesn't seem unfair to think counter ultras could beat armor breake moves, cause if you don't wanna get hit, all you have to do is stay put and don't attack. How is that unfair?
Posted by EnglishKidChin on March 10, 2010 at 5:33 a.m. #84
Gen... You are a broken down shell of a man that once was. My heart goes out to all Gen players!
Posted by Cammy on March 10, 2010 at 5:35 a.m. #85
@ Posted by EnglishKidChin on March 10, 2010 at 5:33 a.m. #85
Well, the old man IS very sick, so... maybe it's a storyline-based nerf? =p
Posted by Charleekun on March 10, 2010 at 5:38 a.m. #86
@ Cammy
Well, you can also combo de first ultra after a "ground" EX Cannon Strike, it's a little harder, but...I think the best combos now will be finished with de Super Combo (because you can connect it with the heavy Spiral Arrow, so if the Spiral Arrow is better now...).
And you can say it, these counter ultras are SH*T and useless...
Posted by darksydephil on March 10, 2010 at 5:39 a.m. #87
@BK
Get outta here you Sakura scrub.
Posted by Jhawk on March 10, 2010 at 5:40 a.m. #88
Dudley: Not much to add to Justin Wong's video, but he is probably #1 in the game. we'll see about that
Soul Reflect into Soul Throw or Ultra 1 F***in yes
Posted by HaikuKane on March 10, 2010 at 5:44 a.m. #89
Well, with the new wall bounce mechanics, I'm wondering if Gen has new tricks (old tricks?) to play with. If I know Gen players, they are certainly some of the most intelligent, strategy-driven people in the scene. They'll find a way to overcome. :-)
Fortunately for me, both of my characters of choice (Sakura/Rose) got some nice additions. I'm going to loooove love love soul reflect into soul throw. Good times.
Posted by RandomJohn on March 10, 2010 at 5:45 a.m. #90
All you people complaining about Capcom not buffing Guile. I say shut your hole and play what Guile already has. You're lucky they didn't nerf his hit points to where it has the same amount as Dhalism.
Posted by gambler69 on March 10, 2010 at 5:50 a.m. #91
randomjohn your an idiot, why the hell would nerfing guile's health be realistic. The guile players have a right to be angry that he will still be low tier and everyone knows it. Personally why give ryu a 2 hit dp with sagat still keeps his 1 hit????? Nerf ryu SRK FADC but keep sagat's almost as powerful? Capcom you suck
Posted by juxtapose on March 10, 2010 at 5:51 a.m. #92
Finally! No more bubblegum Akuma crybabies!
Posted by alfarin on March 10, 2010 at 5:51 a.m. #93
*Sees cannon spike nerf*
*Hangs self*
Posted by THTB on March 10, 2010 at 5:54 a.m. #94
So far it's not looking good, but a lot of the changes in this game don't seem 'right'.
I think there's much more going on than found.
Posted by sweatypalm on March 10, 2010 at 6 a.m. #95
VEGA SEEMED THE SAME?
HAS CAPCOM LEARNED NOTHING?
OR IS THIS GUY JUST CLUELESS?
Posted by BK on March 10, 2010 at 6 a.m. #96
no need to hate on sakura phil. just cause you dont like how much ass shes gonna kick now doesnt mean you gotta hate homie. i told yall from the beginning. if weaker character got stronger and pros been killin with the former ones, this is gonna becomes childs play for us. as you can see, i just attracted a child. dont play with me. im too old for people like you. i just wanna enjoy the game like everyone else.
onto next topic. i wonder if they fixed the length of abels grab. it sucks tryin to grab and the hands just go through the opponent unless you're all the way up on them.
Posted by Kash on March 10, 2010 at 6:02 a.m. #97
Faster normals for Fuerte is going to help a LOT XD I am very happy about this. Ultra 2 should make the mixup a lot more effective and also help in his defense :D Fuerte FTW!!!
Posted by Seygneuriial on March 10, 2010 at 6:03 a.m. #98
I was hoping for some significants changes for Gouken. So fun to play.
But overall, I must say that i'm pretty happy about the changes to Sakura, Rose and Rufus. So sad for Adon.
Posted by benjee on March 10, 2010 at 6:05 a.m. #99
The balance seens ok. People should stop whining about some of the nerfs.
The only sad thing is that they buffed Rose while she was already very good (but since nobody played her nobody knew) and did apparently Dudley way too strong.
Posted by juxtapose on March 10, 2010 at 6:07 a.m. #100
Seriously, you guys all need to calm the hell down.
You did nothing but bitch about the last set of supposed gameplay changes and they turned out to be mostly wrong. Are we really not going to take this with a grain of salt and wait until the game actually releases?
This guy played the game for one day. There's no way he found all the tweaks to all 35 characters. Get over yourselves and put your thumbs back in your mouths until April.
Posted by KSWreQLazZ on March 10, 2010 at 6:13 a.m. #101
@ 80 First of all u shouldnt want to lose to anyone and saying i would rather lose to dudley is stupid and scrub like really listen to what u are saying we going to see how long it takes before everyone gets tired of dudley. I like Ryu he is my main people act like when u pick Ryu its a easy win u have to work zoning and his antiair game. i wish i could say the same thing about sagat but he is kinda gay!!!!!! LMFAO
Posted by sweatypalm on March 10, 2010 at 6:14 a.m. #102
Bison didn't really get anything.
The fact that jumping medium punch into ultra2 works doesn't mean squat, It worked for his old ultra and that was FINE no competent bison player was complaining about that.
Posted by ThunderPipe on March 10, 2010 at 6:15 a.m. #103
I just bought a new 55" LED LCD from Samsung. Let me tell you how awesome it is!!! So anyway, I'm showing off some SF4 to a few buddies, and whilst the demo is going, I'm plugging all my cables up, and end up tipping the console a tad to plug in my Ethernet Cable. BIG MISTAKE. The Disc goes crazy inside the 360. I'm doing all I can to get it to stop. And when I pull it out...the disc is scratched to holy hell. Ugh. I play that game more than any other. Luckily, if I want to replace it, I can do so for cheap. But I'm probably just going to wait for SSF4.
Posted by Blood on March 10, 2010 at 6:24 a.m. #104
Wow. You guys are wayyy too butthurt about Ryu. There are perfectly good winning strategies without hadoken spam until jump then shoryu-trade-ultra. It's about time they force you to work some cross-up and real combos on the stages. Jesus. I call this a blessing, not a nerf.
However my condolences to lower-tiered characters that got barely a buff or even a nerf.
I'm much more okay with Dudley being high-tier than ryu. Why? Obvious reason: He has no fireball. Meaning he has to stay in close to win the match. Staying in close is a lot riskier and where the real majority of mindgames take place. I doubt he'll even remain top tier too long, if he actually is. Most of the current Ryu/Fagat players wouldn't know what to do without a fireball, so I don't see them switching over.
Now excuse me, I need to go work on my Ibuki that I plan to win MWC with when Super comes out.
Posted by Ollusion on March 10, 2010 at 6:25 a.m. #105
WTF? Ken is still the same? thats f*ucked up
Posted by SomeDude on March 10, 2010 at 6:32 a.m. #106
@ 102
I'm just saying,everybody loses some and in that case I prefer losing to a Dudley over a Ryu/Sagat.
And it's cool that you use Ryu as your main (as long as you're halfway decent)but as a Guile/Fei-player I have bitter feeling about Ryu(and Sagat :P).
And you should admit that punishing with an Ultra is way too easy in SF4.
But he got nerfed in SSF4 so maybe now we'll see more Ryu-mainers with skill.
No more random Dp's..~hooray!`.
Posted by Akuma on March 10, 2010 at 6:35 a.m. #107
I can live with this. I'll still wreck Sagat and Abel without the loop.
Posted by Edu on March 10, 2010 at 6:38 a.m. #108
Chun is going to be top tier now. Kikousho comboing so easy will put her just bellow the power-horses on the tier list.
I'm betting we'll be seeing tons of Chuns on the tournaments.
Other chars like Abel and Dan got a little better/stayed just about the same, and reached a nice status. Good, but not super strong.
Rose is also much better now. I'm betting she'll move way up the charts.
I'l say that the best and worse news goes to:
WORST
Ryu - Ultra harder to hit. Still easy, though.
Cammy - Big nerf for her best move? She's going down the charts...
BEST
Chun-li - Kikousho alone will make her a beast. Regular chars won't have a chance against her now.
Sagat - Changes small enough to keep him at the top.
Btw - Guile DID got better: he transformed into Dee Jay
Posted by Put_Elena_in_SF on March 10, 2010 at 6:46 a.m. #109
Sagat needs more nerfs. Give all of Gen's nerfs to Sagat.
Posted by Supersf4 on March 10, 2010 at 6:47 a.m. #110
Gen is a year older now.
Nearly time for moo-neng moo-neng :)
Me not to worried.
Also his supers are thay still the same in ultra1 (slide and tornado)and change in ultra2.(maybe simalar to ultra2)
Posted by MadnessFamilyguile on March 10, 2010 at 6:49 a.m. #111
Most of Guiles/vega changes are going to be very subtle such as a frame faster recovery and activation here or there, NO WAY he could notice, and hitbox changes.
Poor gen. Knew guy would be weaker. This guy just seems to know about alot of obvious changes
"Damage is down on my DP and my DP trade ultra doesn't work anymore. Why? There's a very simple solution to not getting hit by both of those, but I guess now scrubs can just keep on jumping at Ryu."
No, it's scrubs that PLAY ryu, get it right.
Posted by H1gg1n5 on March 10, 2010 at 6:51 a.m. #112
Fei Long: No apparent changes... and U2 gets beat by armor breakers... Ugh I'm disapointed
Posted by Zaruka on March 10, 2010 at 6:54 a.m. #113
ryu still a solid character even with out trade dp into ultra although don know about two dragoon punch but what they did to gen is fuk stupid.
if this information is true then gen got nothing he can do to be a even in the spot he has now in te tier list they might has well just remove him from the game.
i was thinking they where going to get rid of mk into hands but i was hopping he had his chains back but i guess not.
Posted by captainmooncat on March 10, 2010 at 6:57 a.m. #114
I was really looking forward to maining Dudley and I know it's stupid of me but I was kind of hoping he'd be mid tier or something,now that he's the best character everybody and their dog is going to use him and the game will be flooded with him.
I know it's a retarded and childish way to think but god damn.
Posted by SSJ3X on March 10, 2010 at 6:59 a.m. #115
From the looks of it, Chun-Li got the biggest boost overall. It doesn't seem like they changed her much, and the fact that she can combo into Ultra II a whole bunch of ways can really punish players. She was already solid with her good footsie and poke games, now she's much better with the reliable Ultra.
I figured DeeJay would probably be if anything a solid player all around. From what we've seen him do, he does play similar to his Super Turbo counterpart, the only thing is the chain and link system in IV can make for interesting setups.
I feel sorry for Gen and Guile, Gen mostly. The fact that he can't cancel standing medium kick into hands now really puts a halt on what he can do for damage. Taking that a way and invincibility for his dive kick is also a very huge downgrade.
I don't know how much you can change Guile. I mean you could give him a higher stamina for stun and increase his damage output, but adding something entirely new is out of the question.
It's good to know that Sakura also got some much needed upgrades. It'll be nice to see what I can do with her now as oppose to before when she was weaker. The fact that Ultra II can be used as after the EX-Hurricane Combo and an can really make her effective.
Posted by SomeDude on March 10, 2010 at 7:01 a.m. #116
Just main Dudley lol.
Why should you not play the char you wanted to main?
And I'm pretty sure that at the beginning alot of people will go for Dudley but will eventually drop him.
I'll be going for Deejay(leaving Guile XD)/Cody and I don't really care if there are alot of players that use him.
Posted by SnakeX on March 10, 2010 at 7:04 a.m. #117
Why would they nerf Gen? Why would they not improve Vega? Why the hell would they NOT nerf Sagat, but nerf some of the high tier characters under him? Does this make sense to anyone, because it sure as hell doesn't make sense to me.
I want more info. One guy trying it for a day is not enough for me. Why doesn't Capcom just release an official list of changes?
Posted by captainmooncat on March 10, 2010 at 7:06 a.m. #118
Yeah I'm still going to main Dudley, it's just going to be annoying getting a million of mirror matches and having everyone call you a tier whore or refuse to play you because you're "yet another Dudley". Now I know what Sagat players must have felt like before
Posted by Pusha_T on March 10, 2010 at 7:11 a.m. #119
@118
Sagat's tiger uppercut and tiger knee have been nerfed. Is that not enough??
Posted by Cammy on March 10, 2010 at 7:16 a.m. #120
Colonel Wolf, I got nerfed, sir!
"But Sagat is a lot weaker too, right?"
No, sir. Only a little.
"I see. Well, then, you just have to be satisfied in defeating Chun-li"
She got a big boost, sir. She may be one of the best characters now.
"..."
"Claw?"
Afirmative. That one I can defeat, sir. He's even weaker now.
Posted by FearTheBadgers on March 10, 2010 at 7:16 a.m. #121
EX-Scarlet Terror had better have a lot of invincibility frames.
Posted by Bibuki on March 10, 2010 at 7:16 a.m. #122
@116
there are tons of easy ways to improve Guile realistically.
faster c.mk, more range on h.fk (that's good news, can safely wake up away from crossups), better priority on c.hp and FK, EXSB knockdown (some want that, I personally don't care), FK hitbox, and a couple more. it's nothing fancy at all, but he would be a solid midtier, or at least players who know him would be wayyyy better.
I like to work for my wins, but I really think I'll switch to a better character this time around (Ibuki, maybe Makoto as alt). I was sticking with Guile in hope for an ajustment in Super. I hope the dude is wrong about this.
Posted by NJCU on March 10, 2010 at 7:17 a.m. #123
I feel bad for Gen...they took away his only viable strategy for winning, the Mk cancel into xxhands. Yeb I think is time to switch characters. R.I.P Gen.
Posted by OneDrop_ on March 10, 2010 at 7:23 a.m. #124
I wish they improved my vega.. O well ill still slice my opponents like i have been doing with sfiv.
Thank god they took out the cheap ultra set ups or ryu (only wish they took out sagats forward + HK set up)
But the main character i think they should of nerfed is blanka. He has too much going for him namely super recovery times for his rolls and sliding past fireballs and electricty that can go on forever.
all in all though im happy with the changes listed
Posted by SmoothJK on March 10, 2010 at 7:23 a.m. #125
Totally agree with #112. If you don't main Guile, how would you notice things like better recovery, 2-frame links instead of 1 (just speculating as an example), slightly better priority, etc.?
It's not like Guile needed a ton of massive tweaks, just subtle ones. Most people don't play him correctly anyway.
As you can see, I'm TRYING to give Capcom the benefit of the doubt, even though they keep trying to screw over us PC users. I like to think that they're smarter than the average Joe on these websites lol.
Posted by CpE_Wahoo on March 10, 2010 at 7:24 a.m. #126
Agreed with most, nerfing Gen and Guile still sucking is terrible. Nerfing Cammy doesn't make much sense IMO either.
I'm incredibly excited for Dudley and Rose though!
Posted by frankie3nig on March 10, 2010 at 7:30 a.m. #127
they really didnt have 2 do dat 2 ryu lmao o man the tier whores on here is amazing. sakura didnt really need a buff. I like her technical work hard mind reading playstyle. Would b cool if she got varieties in her otoshi. Is it me or do most people feel that they shouldnt have 2 work hard for a win. Sakura and viper!!!!!!!!!
Posted by toshi on March 10, 2010 at 7:34 a.m. #128
Didn't people already confirm Guile's flash kick was improved though? This guy doesn't really mention that, he just says he wasn't given anything. So maybe he just didn't mention the improvements to his current moves.
Posted by MrTanooki on March 10, 2010 at 7:38 a.m. #129
Thank GOD Ken didn't get his crazy kicks and instead got a faster fireball. I mean, anybody who plays Ken should definitely know that his entire gameplan revolves around the fireball and his zoning capabilities and not his mix-ups and deadly combos. Anybody who tells you otherwise is obviously a noob and knows nothing about the game.
... =/
Posted by Smorgasboard on March 10, 2010 at 7:42 a.m. #130
Maybe they have playtesters that are really good with Guile/Gen and really bad with Sagat. They did say during SF4 development that everyone said that Sagat was weak except one guy.
Imagine that, the best Guile/Gen players are Capcom employees who can't join tournaments. Pity.
Posted by mikoal on March 10, 2010 at 8:07 a.m. #131
C. Viper: Rumors of Medium Punch Thunder Knuckle nerf are untrue or reversed, if its slower — its only by a frame or two.
LOL, that was the nerf everyone was referring to....that 1 or 2 frame is crucial since she sucks already
Posted by Psycho on March 10, 2010 at 8:13 a.m. #132
@ 118 wrong, sagat's damage is really gonna hurt him why? he wasn't as good as Ryu or Akuma IMHO? he was just cheap.
Posted by Amar on March 10, 2010 at 8:14 a.m. #133
Dee Jay better have a consistant way to combo into that beautiful ultra...
Posted by MadnessFamilyguile on March 10, 2010 at 8:19 a.m. #134
He didn't think blanka had changed, all other reports say he's faster, normals included. He wasn't sure if thunder knuckle got nerfed, he's unable to notice framerate changes.
He didn't seem to have anyone to play against, he's less likely to notice hitbox changes,stamina changes.
Conclusion:
Guile and vega players shouldn't worry, overall this guy just knew the basics. A couple of framerate buffs of each normal are huge even if it's one frame. He was able to notice fuerte's normal changes because they had HUGE startup.
Poor gen:(
Posted by Psycho on March 10, 2010 at 8:23 a.m. #135
@ 135 that sounds good man, I hope I won't have to drop Vega. Poor Gen :( Poor old stylish man!! :'(
Posted by Gbraga on March 10, 2010 at 8:25 a.m. #136
Wow, Hakan seems to be an awesome character to play with! Can't wait.
Too bad Adon is a bad character, but Dudley being #1 is very nice.
Just hope he isn't a #1 like Sagat was, with no one being able to stand against him.
Don't want to see him nerfed in a possible sequel.
Posted by Justinbehungry on March 10, 2010 at 8:25 a.m. #137
Cammy?
Nerf????
That's bs.
no safe moves, doesn't have usable armor break, loses to turtles easy, no reliable way to chip an opponent, hooligan combo doesn't grab crounchers (everyone crouches).
how could they do this to my baby.
=[
Posted by MarcusWarlike on March 10, 2010 at 8:26 a.m. #138
cool
Posted by FOOLS on March 10, 2010 at 8:27 a.m. #139
Man. I had lost a lot of hype for this game.
Guess what?
It's all back. April 27th can't come soon enough.
No trade Ultras. Everyone seems to be much better balanced (aside from a few still weak characters). And Akuma's nerfs got reverted. He never needed those aside from the infinite, so all is good.
Posted by Justinbehungry on March 10, 2010 at 8:29 a.m. #140
and then again, this is just Wiz's opinions.
I'm just going to wait for the game and see for myself.
I will not give up on you yet my love!
Posted by Psycho on March 10, 2010 at 8:29 a.m. #141
Adon: He seems very weak. Both ultras are hard to use. Jaguar Tooth and Jaguar Kick are both unsafe on block. Aerial Jaguar Kick might be safe. EX-Jaguar Kick is safe on block. Has a very good overhead though, one of the best.
How is jaguar kick unsafe on block? stupid!! his ultras doesn't seem to be very hard to use because one goes through fireballs and the other can be used in combos like the one some guy did in the corner, I don't remember very well
Posted by Gbraga on March 10, 2010 at 8:32 a.m. #142
I still can't understand why give Fei Long another bad ultra. The most intriguing part is that they actually gave him a worse ultra than the first one.
Posted by EnglishKidChin on March 10, 2010 at 8:32 a.m. #143
*insert WOW humor....*
"ASSASSINS/rogues are too strong!!! (bitch)(bitch)(bitch)"
..... Download "Gen" only patch the next day.
"my assassin (GEN) is broken! And he gets one shotted!" QQ!
Posted by chickenwings on March 10, 2010 at 8:33 a.m. #144
i hope this isnt true. Well, some of it anyway. The thing about trade ultras not working is FANTASTIC news but theres alot of characters here that needed some tweaking. I really hope alot more of the cast is competitive then the alst game, online all u see is basicly the same 5 characters over and over, it gets stale fast.
Posted by FOOLS on March 10, 2010 at 8:34 a.m. #145
And so I'm guessing everyone's Super is still the same?
No one has really seemed to try those out. I hope they changed a few of them (for the old characters) to something other than a variation of their Ultra 1. Having 2 Raging Demon's was pretty lame. But then again, how often do you get a full Super bar with Akuma.
Posted by Aquaman on March 10, 2010 at 8:34 a.m. #146
all I want is vega's scarlet terror to actually work(as an anti-air), more speed(off the wall and faster rolling crystal flash the MP & HP versions)...
It looks like Capcom focused on bringing in the new characters more, but I'll wait til I see the final build myself, Mr. Wiz only played the game a day. I doubt he touched on every character equally.
Posted by DanoftheJungle on March 10, 2010 at 8:40 a.m. #147
Dan is overpowered now. BUT HE WILL HAVE HIS REVENGE AT LAST
Posted by MadnessFamilyguile on March 10, 2010 at 8:49 a.m. #148
Here's an alternate list of some changes from a different player
http://iplaywinner.com/news/2010/3/10...
Posted by Nice on March 10, 2010 at 8:49 a.m. #149
@115
I don't think you'll have to worry about everyone and their mother playing Dudley. He's really hard to play, much much harder then the shotos that currently top the tier list (i'm including Sagat in there as well, he plays like one).
Man, is it April yet?
Posted by jamheald on March 10, 2010 at 8:50 a.m. #150
Rose = good :)
Cammy = bad :(
Posted by KSWreQLazZ on March 10, 2010 at 8:52 a.m. #151
@ 105 I'm going 2 mdc 2 and I don't think u are going 2 win lol but foreal dudley dosent have a fireball but he has a lot of moves that go throught fire balls but I see wat u mean but I just don't spam hadoken and then shoryuken
@ 107 I'm kinda glad they did that so they can't say Ryu is cheap when I beat and it is easy 2 land ultras but at least I can main makoto 2 ;) who dosent have fireballs so I can get up close
and personal lol
Posted by Jordunable on March 10, 2010 at 8:53 a.m. #152
I'm glad Chun got alot better.
Ultra 2 for me.
Seems like she'll be my sub for Ibuki :)
Posted by WhiteHotTaco on March 10, 2010 at 8:55 a.m. #153
So Gen, despite being in one of if not the lowest tier, got nerfed. Guile still has crap for comboing into his ultra. Fei Long and Cammy still have no way to effectively combo into their ultras for full damage, and their counter ultras can't even stop armor break moves?
Really, I'm kind of disappointed by all of that. I'm really hoping that there is more to still be discovered because that's just depressing to me, especially the counters which I really hoped WOULDN'T SUCK FOR ONCE.
Posted by CharlieNash on March 10, 2010 at 9:03 a.m. #154
Why wasn't i added in SSF4? I'm much better and cooler than Hakkan
Posted by RKMx52 on March 10, 2010 at 9:06 a.m. #155
Why did Gen get nerfed.. so stupid.
Posted by Psycho on March 10, 2010 at 9:12 a.m. #156
what were the changes that made Seth say that SSFIV Gen was gonna be a lot better than his SFIV counterpart? where are they?
Posted by MAFIA on March 10, 2010 at 9:20 a.m. #157
mmm well i thought capcom staff were HORNEY when they buff
all SSF4 Bitc@s and nerf all the guys WTF ??? CAPCOM
where is the balance that ur talking about ?
nerf poor gen ? why ?? really stuped idea with this upside down balances , what about Dhalsim the same low life bar like b4 thats not fair .
i'm maining Ryu & Blanka , so if they fu@ked up ryu am gonna still use my Blanka no big deal capcom dick heads
i'm thinking about the guys who main gen , dhalsim , ken
and all other characters that been nerfed ,
Chun is really strong why they dont nerf her a little bit
i agree with sakura cross-up she needed that now she is good balanced and playable character .
dont try to talk about balance seth killian u make me really sick of ur bull sh!t .
Posted by Jerm on March 10, 2010 at 9:23 a.m. #158
People really need to stop complaining! This isn't even an official change list, and even if it is, there are probably a lot more changes to be discovered. But...if the changes on this list are true about my main then..........CHUN-LI IS GOING TO BE A BEAST!!!!!!!!!!! I JUST HOPE EVERYONE WON'T BE USING HER NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by Meka on March 10, 2010 at 9:25 a.m. #159
An old interview stated:
"-- What kind of adjustments are being made this time around for SSFIV?
Okada:
First, we decided to stick with the idea of keeping whatever was possible in SFIV intact. For balancing a fighting game, there are two different possibilities - make the moves of the stronger characters less effective (nerf) or to make the moves of the weaker characters more effective (buff). Going the route of buffing the weaker characters moves makes for more difficult adjustments, but as we didn't want our players to feel stressed out, we decided to go with buffing the weaker characters for SSFIV."
Gen says what?
I also don't understand Akuma, is he nerfed or not by the way that paragraph is worded.
Posted by WhiteHotTaco on March 10, 2010 at 9:30 a.m. #160
@160
The way i took it is that the only thing they removed was an infinite loop that he could pull off in SF4
Posted by Rose on March 10, 2010 at 9:31 a.m. #161
Dear World Warriors and fans,
I did get a bit better, but my new Ultra, Soul Satellite, requires skill and planning to use effectively. It is much less direct than most Ultras.
It is good of MrWizard to share some of what he has discovered, but no one should get too upset over it. For example, there are some changes to normal moves for some characters and a few alterations in timing and dizzy-related properties that can make a big difference. These changes are more subtle; new and special moves are high-profile, but they aren't going to tell the whole story.
It's in the cards.
Yours,
Rose
Posted by dtbighead0812 on March 10, 2010 at 9:32 a.m. #162
cant figure out for the life of me why they nerfed gen..? didnt he have it hard enough as it is?
Posted by Jaf on March 10, 2010 at 9:43 a.m. #163
Please tell me Vega's EX Sky High still knocks down
Posted by BlankaBeast on March 10, 2010 at 9:43 a.m. #164
Who is MrWiz anyway? Sounds like very sketchy info to me, nothing concrete.
Posted by oldboy on March 10, 2010 at 9:44 a.m. #165
C. Viper: No notable changes. Hallelujah. I hope it stays this way. She doesn't need a thing. I Love her just the way she is.
On another note now that Sagat and Ryu are nerfed slightly looks like Akuma is back to being the best. Who knows though maybe Chun or Dudley are even better.
Posted by Rufus on March 10, 2010 at 9:46 a.m. #166
Mr. Wizard doesn't know what hes talking about.
Consider me God Tier now
Posted by Dugi on March 10, 2010 at 9:46 a.m. #167
Sometimes I wish I could understand the logic of nerfing the already-bad characters.
Posted by Raius1 on March 10, 2010 at 9:47 a.m. #168
I main Ryu, and the nerf is fine with me. I don't play Ryu because he's good, I play him because I like him, and I win most of my matches without even using the Ultra, or the zoning game (except against Geif, where I rely have very little choice). Relying on the trades is a sloppy way to play anyway. As long as he retains his quality of having good normals and solid cross-up and fadc combos, it'll be fine. It sounds to me like everyone just wants Capcom to beef their favorite character until they're top-tier, but not everyone can be top-tier now, can they? It's all about skill, so quit wishing for some magic fix to improve all your match-ups. Mind games win matches, not cheapo shenanigans.
Posted by CervejaDoBrazil on March 10, 2010 at 9:48 a.m. #169
keep in mind this is all one guys observation. i'm gonna try and stay Optimistic. so until the game finally comes out I dont think this is actually a valid Critic. also keep in mind that seth said they JUST recently finished production of the game but there are still avenues they need to go through. so whats to say that this was the final version he was talking about?
Posted by Psykotsu on March 10, 2010 at 9:51 a.m. #170
I agree with Raius1. Everyone stop bitching.
Posted by Frostylongcat on March 10, 2010 at 9:56 a.m. #171
I can't understand why the counter ultra loses to armor breaking moves. I was planning on sticking with Fei for this game, and the counter ultra was going to be my saving grace from blanka ball and head-butt spamming Blanka and Honda players, but I guess not anymore. The counter ultra would be perfect if it actually countered moves. On another note, I'm a bit worried about Dudley. Sure I really like Dudley, but I don't think he's a character that really needs to be top tier. If you're going to have a top tier character have it be someone who makes sense like M. Bison or Gouken. Just saying.
Posted by tjdeuceosix on March 10, 2010 at 9:58 a.m. #172
I heard things from nor cal sources that don't necessarily agree with everything mr. wizard said. we'll just see what happens when the game is released.
Posted by MilnerWins on March 10, 2010 at 10 a.m. #173
as a Gouken player im looking forward to his new Ultra. Mayb better wake-up options would be nice.
Posted by Frostylongcat on March 10, 2010 at 10:03 a.m. #174
One other thing, I think that the overall nerfing of lower tier characters is a terrible move for Capcom. It seems to be that all the new characters are going to be very good and the lower tier characters from the original SFIV are going to be a ton worse. I don't understand why they would buff Rose and Sakura but nerf Gen and Vega. We also have to remember the game is not out yet, and it is only the opinion of one person. I think the new top tier is gonna be Dudley, Ryu, Abel and Ibuki. It's just a guess.
Posted by Phynx on March 10, 2010 at 10:04 a.m. #175
Seems like the charge characters are getting shafted. Too bad, I was really hoping for a good Claw in this version, and possibly a slightly improved Honda. I'm excited to give Fuerte another go, though!
Posted by Zen808 on March 10, 2010 at 10:12 a.m. #176
Wow my chun li is going to get crazy now... I can now free style with all the combos into the new ultra.
About Guy... I bet he will be pretty good, he probably won't won't beginner friendly but he once you learn him he going to be a beast.
Posted by Blood on March 10, 2010 at 10:14 a.m. #177
@152
Even if I dont win the Super competition, I'll win 3rd Strike for sure.
Posted by GoldenTrophy on March 10, 2010 at 10:19 a.m. #178
Blanka can get grabbed out of his 2nd ultra? no ways to combo it? another "SITUATIONAL" ultra were i have to capatalize off somebody being wrescless Hoo ray Capcom and E. Honda plays the same? make honda have the ability to FADC out of Sumo Splash not Sumo Headbutt since you can olny fadc out of HB when in close range you hardly see or ever see the best Honda players do that and his 1st ultra still has no proper ways into catching someone in it because it' "Situational" wait til you see an obvious/stupid mistake than you get to use it and in high competitive play it's rare you'll get a chance.
Posted by Sakura on March 10, 2010 at 10:19 a.m. #179
Buff Chun and Nerf Cammy?
Okay Capcom.....
Posted by Wgoinz on March 10, 2010 at 10:23 a.m. #180
chun li is gonna do work now.....sorry for guile.gen.honda.and
fei long. Sakura might be a better contender and i think hakan is gonna be 1st or 2nd tier.............
WHY IS DUDLEY SO BROKEN?
Posted by topdawg122 on March 10, 2010 at 10:25 a.m. #181
Dissapointing news about Gen and Cammy. Hopefully Adon isn't too bad, that's who I wanna play.
Posted by Psycho on March 10, 2010 at 10:32 a.m. #182
@ 181 how do you know dudley is broken? did you go to the future? There's a new top character and he's called Akuma
Posted by samuraikatana1 on March 10, 2010 at 10:34 a.m. #183
"Ultra 2 gets all 20 hits every time, if it whiffs for a while and you get hit by the very end of it, you still take the full damage."
Chun-Li sounds like she could easily be top tier. Sounds like she may replace Cammy as my main.
Posted by Firegod on March 10, 2010 at 10:36 a.m. #184
Things about SSF4 that made me say
WHAT THE FREK!!!!!!!!!
Adon: He seems very weak. Both ultras are hard to use. Jaguar Tooth and Jaguar Kick are both unsafe on block. Aerial Jaguar Kick might be safe. EX-Jaguar Kick is safe on block. Has a very good overhead though, one of the best.
(So basiclly Adon so far is a waist of programming, yaayy..........)
Chun-Li:- She got 'infinitely better'. Her Ultra 2 combos easily, all day. Up Kicks target combo goes into Ultra 2, as well as EX-Lightning Legs anywhere on the screen. It's very dangerous. Ultra 2 gets all 20 hits every time, if it whiffs for a while and you get hit by the very end of it, you still take the full damage.(Yea I can agree she needed a few things........but INFINATLY BETTER, omg not another 3rd strike chun *cries)
Gen: Only nerfs found so far, no chain combos, no Standing Medium Kick, Cancel into Hands at all. EX-Wall Dive lost some invincibility.(LIKE 3 PEOPLE IN TEH WORLD USE GEN SERIOUSLY, HE DIDNT NEED TO BE NERFED, AND THE COMBO INTO HANDS WAS THE BEST THING ABOUT HIM, OMG!)
Guile: He seems to have been given nothing. Sonic Hurricane, his Ultra 2 is not good. Super into Ultra 2 is the only known combo into it. Down+Taunt puts on glasses, but doesn't give him any buffs or advantages.(So capcom doesnt listen to the fans........yaaay)
Ibuki: Slide does not go under fireballs, air dagger throw doesn't cancel out fireballs. (This makes 0 scence.... wow, this is stupid)
Ken: He is not looking good, they didn't give him much. He cannot Focus Attack Dash Cancel to Ultra 2 normally. He didn't get crazy kicks from previous SF games. They slightly improved his fireball.
(This one really pisses me off as a Ken player, and for the fact that THEY SAID KEN WAS GETTING A NEW MOVE!!!!!! IMO SF4 Ken by FAR is the WORST Ken out of EVERY Ken in SF HISTORY.........ID RATHER PLAY KEN IM FREAKING GEM FIGHTERS THAN IN SF4, AND NOW HE IS THE SAME!!!!!!! OMMGGGG!)
Vega (Claw): Seemed the same. His Claw stays on a lot longer now, though. EX-Wall Dive off the wall doesn't go through opponent anymore.(Claw fans better pray to God that the claw staying on longer makes him top teir....cause uhhhhh...........seems like he may still suck)
Now I know that the game is going to have to get into more players hands to really find out how much the game has changed, but these changes really dont seem good right now....*sighs at ken news*....man........this sucks.....
Posted by griever2000 on March 10, 2010 at 10:37 a.m. #185
chun-li is gonna be top tier now. she just stole all the propreties of juggling anything into ultra from ryu
Posted by PhinnyCupcakes on March 10, 2010 at 10:41 a.m. #186
I hope this guy was high when he was interviewed, because I don't like these changes
Posted by Creeper on March 10, 2010 at 10:43 a.m. #187
>EX-Snake Strike damage is way down.
Damn it! I loved doing jHK,EX-SS on scrubs haphazardly jumping in and potentially scoring ~370 damage. Ah well, can't win 'em all. To be honest, the damage was a bit ridiculous.
Posted by abcbadcat on March 10, 2010 at 10:43 a.m. #188
Rose buffs... YESSSSSSSS!!!
Ryu nerfs + Dan buffs = DAIGO MAINING DAN!!!
Posted by griever2000 on March 10, 2010 at 10:45 a.m. #189
@psycho
akuma top tier in ssf4 ??? I think not
akuma's move are maybe intact (except the loop) but with all the buffs that the other characters got, as a akuma player I must say he will go down in the tier list (maybe A or top B tier IMO)
at least I have my Rose :) (now if only she could have soul illusion as a new move...hehe ;p)
Posted by EnglishKidChin on March 10, 2010 at 10:55 a.m. #190
Wow at the above post O.o
Posted by Bison on March 10, 2010 at 10:57 a.m. #191
I do hope that Mr. Wizards notes are off too. If this is the final build and he is accurate, this sounds pretty bad and the game doesn't seem that balanced.
I was really hoping to hear that all characters at least got 1 new special. It seems too much like the first game, but I don't know until I play it more.
Maybe Capcom listened too much to SRK unfortunately.
Posted by GCLeague on March 10, 2010 at 10:59 a.m. #192
Wow! I'm pretty stoked that ROSE is going to be a good contender still!!
Dudely is going to be TOP tier ehhh Hmmm...
I wonder if JWong will still main Rufus?
Hakan still ok..It will come down to gameplay IMO, but to see him being played at the tourney level will be hilarious especially if catz be winning with him.
Posted by Crono on March 10, 2010 at 11:06 a.m. #193
Hmmmm, Makoto should be pretty good. Ultra 2 will be used to punish fire balls and random focus attack, and the fact I can juggle after it makes it more worth while. since the Ex command grab has armor. I can use it if I feel like someone is pressing me.... hopefully there is a way to Kara it.
One more month and we can see what it's like for ourselves!
Posted by brujometal on March 10, 2010 at 11:07 a.m. #194
It looks like it was the final build!
http://shoryuken.com/content.php?r=32...
For me I think is a very balanced game!!
Posted by Tango_Sucka on March 10, 2010 at 11:08 a.m. #195
right as a cammy main... if they gonna nerf my bread and butter srk killer (cannon spike)... the cannon drill better be completely safe on block, not just better. At least it says my secondary Sakura is better... and I was expecting adon to be a beast, but this says he is weak. Ah well
Posted by Meee on March 10, 2010 at 11:15 a.m. #196
I like most of these changes I already called Chun being beastly in the next game lol.
Loving Rose, Sakura and even Dan's big buffs. I don't agree much with making Gen nerfed even further but we haven't all even come closed to seeing what he can do. Again I am happy with these changes overall I just wish that Cammy and Fei-Long's Ultras weren't so vulnerable.
P.S.
Thank you so much guys for giving Makoto and armored EX Karakusa. I hope to see in the near future what Makoto's 2nd Ultra can do.
Posted by Ryu_Apprentice on March 10, 2010 at 11:29 a.m. #197
Guys pls I need your help to rate my vids on youtube, please tell me what you think is my weakness gameplay wise.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-H9_NV... (Akuma)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7lNSn...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAryGj...
Posted by Ryose on March 10, 2010 at 11:38 a.m. #198
LOL @ Gen and Adon.
Like Gen wasn't strong enough...
Posted by darksydephil on March 10, 2010 at 11:41 a.m. #199
@201
Everything. Trust me. Scrubby gameplay at its finest.
Posted by Vega on March 10, 2010 at 11:42 a.m. #200
Not to fear Claw fans, in SSF4 Vega is confirmed to have...
A) Faster startup on H.rolling crystal flash
B) C.hp now has AA propeties (although it's not known how good it is yet)
C) Invincibility frames on bhc (could possibly be used for corner escapes against Sagat/Rog
D) His overhead is now A F*CKING OVERHEAD!!
E) Last but not least, Ultra II may be able to combo of his launcher and it looks a lot less situational then bhc (vids seem to show it doing good damage too!)
He's looking mid tier to me, certainly better then guile.
Posted by darksydephil on March 10, 2010 at 11:44 a.m. #201
"Dee Jay: He seems decent. Nothing too bad, nothing too good. Reminds you of Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo in that way."
How very informative...../sarcasm
Looks like I gotta wait for the game to come out to find out how Dee Jay is in this game.
Posted by Cammy on March 10, 2010 at 11:50 a.m. #202
Third Strike Chun-li is back
Posted by Psycho on March 10, 2010 at 11:53 a.m. #203
meh Ryu looks like he will remain a decent character not to worry Dan fans
Posted by Psycho on March 10, 2010 at 11:54 a.m. #204
WTF did I just say Dan I meant Ryu!! omg
Posted by General_Awesomo on March 10, 2010 at 11:54 a.m. #205
Vega (Claw): Seemed the same. His Claw stays on a lot longer now, though. EX-Wall Dive off the wall doesn't go through opponent anymore.
I'm kinda confused about this. If he meant EX-SHC, that's stupid. "Oh no, Vega can fly through people!" If they meant EX-FBA, I'm gonna lose it. If this means you can't Izuna Drop after EX-FBA, some heads are gonna roll. That's one of Vega's bread and butter! An earlier statement said that the startup on RCF is faster, I hope this is still true in the final build.
As for Guile. I'm not much of a Guile player, but the way I see it is this: "Guile, I understand you suck. So here, take these sunglasses. That's all you need."
I'm hoping this guy overlooked some things. Rather than having one guy play with all characters in one day, we should have one guy play a character for a day, for all of the characters. Either that, or have Capcom release the update notes for the final build.
Posted by Ryu_Apprentice on March 10, 2010 at 11:59 a.m. #206
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-H9_NV... (Akuma)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7lNSn...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAryGj...
PLS RATE MY PLAY
Posted by Psycho on March 10, 2010 at 12:01 p.m. #207
No love for Zangief? he's going downhill in SSFIV that's for sure, old crappy Zangief will be back, oh man I have so much to say!!
Posted by Troll on March 10, 2010 at 12:08 p.m. #208
I didn't think that sf4 could get any shtter, well theyve fcked things up now, they shoulda buffed sagat more seeing as hes my main and hes the hardest to use.
I quit sf4 ima go play on a skillful game like tekken where i can pull off 10 hit combos.
Posted by Showbiz_ on March 10, 2010 at 12:10 p.m. #209
EX-Wall Dive off the wall doesn't go through opponent anymore.
What does that even mean? phaaa
Shame about Adon too.
Posted by letsfightlikegentlemen on March 10, 2010 at 12:12 p.m. #210
when this comes out lets all fight like gentlemen
Posted by BlazinBlizzard on March 10, 2010 at 12:17 p.m. #211
@ 101...guys.....the man is right...we should all just relax
Posted by AriasD on March 10, 2010 at 12:17 p.m. #212
Kinda dissapointed they made Dudley so good. now people are gonna cry when i play him even though i've LOVED him for as long as i could remember
Posted by Nice on March 10, 2010 at 12:19 p.m. #213
Don't forget guys, as great as this info is it's compiled from playing the game ONE DAY! Don't take it as a complete list is all i'm saying. Not the end of the world folks.
Posted by BOBBALUI on March 10, 2010 at 12:26 p.m. #214
I don't mind the EX Snake Strike nerf, but don't be messing with Messiah. That's just sacrilege.
Posted by NecroGiant on March 10, 2010 at 12:27 p.m. #215
im really disappointed in both guile and gen changes... guile gets nothing but what seems like the crappiest utra ever that happened to be my fave in older games and gen gets weaker when he was pretty weak to begin with...
Posted by Bibuki on March 10, 2010 at 12:30 p.m. #216
I think that the game will be mostly balanced, but stupid decisions that would have been easy to avoid will keep it from being even better. As an example, Dudley has obviously way too much options to land an ultra or super. I mean why would he need that much options? For some reason capcom purposefully designed him to be godtier.
And since there's a bunch of timed specials/supers/ultras in the game, why does sagats scar move stay activated the whole round?
Still, it'll probably be better than the original. Better diversity in tourney-viable characters is a good thing.
Posted by OomackattackoO on March 10, 2010 at 12:30 p.m. #217
IM READY FOR DEE JAY!.....SECOND DAN.
Posted by Osamah_Haq on March 10, 2010 at 12:33 p.m. #218
I LOVE TO PICK REALLY CHEAP ASS CHARACTERS IN ALL FIGHTING GAMES!!
Posted by JerseyFame on March 10, 2010 at 12:36 p.m. #219
It hurts my heart to know that you didnt make Guile anymore fun to play...its as if you have spit in the faces of the fans who spoke out, commented the most, created the most forums and provided logical advice for improvement in many forums and messageboards..
ouch capcom. That hurts.
Posted by Guile on March 10, 2010 at 12:37 p.m. #220
Bison (may have) killed Charlie
Capcom killed Guile (if this list is accurate)
After all the complaints about Guile. Even Justin Wong and Combofiend saying openly that guile is broken, dont play this guy. They treat the other original SFII characters so much better but they leave this guy BOTTOM tier.
Then take the time to give him sunglasses, basically showing they DID HAVE time spend on Guile, but not time buffing him? Really? R they trying to tease Guile fans?
If they werent gonna make serious gameplay alterations, coudlnt they AT LEAST buff the power in his current moves? Would have taken less time than the sunglasses.
Posted by darksydephil on March 10, 2010 at 12:43 p.m. #221
@224
Look at it this way: At least you Guile scrubs will have an excuse when I beat you scrubs and show it to my 50K+ subscribers.
Posted by Bison on March 10, 2010 at 12:45 p.m. #222
I guess my confusion is this. Why would they give easy Ultras for certain characters such as Ryu, Sagat, Chunli, and Dudley, but they don't give the same privileges to other characters such as Bison, Honda, Guile???
To me that alone shows that this game isn't balanced.
Perhaps there are hidden secrets in this game that we do not know about yet and this game may be more balanced than it seems.
I just have this fear that the tier list is going to come out and it's not going to look pretty.
Posted by SmoothJK on March 10, 2010 at 12:48 p.m. #223
I don't know how much I'd read into Mr. Wizard's comments on Guile. The tweaks he needed were more like priority, range, a flashkick that actually works, etc...things that are hard to test without playing real matches. He could've just gone into training mode for all we know, which teaches us nothing.
Let's wait and see. If they messed up Guile again, though, I don't know what to tell you.
Posted by Ixion on March 10, 2010 at 12:50 p.m. #224
First of all, I'm going to complain about making Gen sucky because there's absoutely no reason to do so. I don't play Gen much but when I actually do I think it's the Medium Kick into Hands that makes him a really interesting character; and they take THAT away. That's stupid as hell, he needs no nerfing, especially as he's not that good from the start.
Second, I main Guile and actually I had no high hopes for Capcom making him better because I don't think he's really all that bad to begin with. Yes, he's ranked low in tier lists but I've never had that much to complain about really... I'm complaining about his useless new ultra, though.
Another thing I think is disastrous, is that this game is going to be full of completely meaningless ultras. From the start I thought that you were going to be able to choose IN a match which ultra to do, which I think would make much more sense. One of the two ultras for each character is obviously going to be worse than the other, so why would anyone want to pick the worse one? It's just really stupid. I hate it. There's really a lot of balancing to do to this game... Garhhhh... Just think of how it would be if you could choose between doing Guile's first ultra and the second ultra in the same situation. It makes a lot of sense because you would be able to charge up for both of them at the same time since the new one starts with a backwards charge...
Posted by Meee on March 10, 2010 at 12:51 p.m. #225
shut up Guile the game hasn't been finished. I am sure they are gonna add something just sit back relax and quite the whole pitty me thing. There have been plenty of high level Guile's as he is now, if your having trouble winning its probably because you suck.
This is all one mans observations on a game that isn't 100% done yet. We don't know about the tiers yet and everyone complaining about Dudley's options can suck it Rufus has a ton already and from what I have seen so does Juri and a few others. Don't act like this isn't something new.
Posted by SmoothJK on March 10, 2010 at 12:53 p.m. #226
@231: Actually, they said it's the final build.
Posted by denjinBlanka on March 10, 2010 at 12:53 p.m. #227
me not happy, I need to be top tier! aaarrrrghhh!
Posted by Psycho on March 10, 2010 at 12:54 p.m. #228
@ 231 sorry but they announced that the development of the game is finally over
Posted by Guile on March 10, 2010 at 12:55 p.m. #229
@231.
Maybe u should actually READ what i said
"Capcom killed Guile (if this list is accurate)"
^i said IF THIS LIST IS ACCURATE, it wasnt a final statement
and u must know, although there is a CHANCE, there is little hope for improvement at this point so that sort of speculation is justified
but if u disagree, im more than willing to bet u on it
Posted by Bibuki on March 10, 2010 at 1:07 p.m. #230
@231
a coupe of high level Guile means nothing, since there's only a handful and none of them achieved much. I won't try to explain the Guile situation any further, you wouldn't understand.
Posted by Blazingsoldier2002 on March 10, 2010 at 1:14 p.m. #231
I can't believe this!
Fei gets an Ultra that can't counter armor breakers, and nothing else.
Guy didn't get changed a lot except slower.
Ibuki lost the ability to slide under projectiles with her slide?! WTF CAPCOM?!!!!!
Posted by Nelaelu on March 10, 2010 at 1:16 p.m. #232
Oh common people... Ken needs a more useful ultra! His first one was one of the worst in the game - terrible range, terrible recovery, very limited or/and weak set-ups, long start up... only damage was good. I like how his new ultra looks... I just hope it's not as useless as Shinryuken.
Posted by XsaintedsinnerX on March 10, 2010 at 1:16 p.m. #233
yay thanks capcom you told us guile would get what he needed and you still dont even let us do something as basic as combo into his ultra great. I guess im still gonna have to work for my wins lol oh well
Posted by DomDaDude on March 10, 2010 at 1:19 p.m. #234
Vega cannot Ex wall jump into oppenent? that guy sure did a mistake its impossible they could remove the only combo-ability he had .... Screw this list
Posted by GrimmjawJin on March 10, 2010 at 1:32 p.m. #235
They messed up cammy real bad. Why.in.the.fu(kin'.hell.would.you.do.that.capcom?
This makes no sense, she was already low tier and cannon spike was the only awesome move she had second to spiral arrow. On top of that her second ultra can be penetrated with an armor breaker move =/
Its like they are telling the players not to use her anymore......
Posted by NobleEskimo on March 10, 2010 at 1:37 p.m. #236
These aren't necessarily the 'actual' changes, guys. I'm sure he had limited time with the game. Only time will tell...
Posted by CervejaDoBrazil on March 10, 2010 at 1:47 p.m. #237
Just cuz game development is over doesn't mean that the copy out on tables right now is the same finished copy!
Posted by TAG on March 10, 2010 at 1:51 p.m. #238
Wow...I feel so sorry for Cammy-Gen-Guile
I don't even main them but still, it seem to me like capcom forgot how to balance games now.
Look at HD remix..MOSTLY everyone still is about the same...
(Tier RAnking I mean)
Posted by Psycho on March 10, 2010 at 2:02 p.m. #239
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nJEbd...
That doesn't seem to be a hard ultra to use, plus it works as an ati air, seth killian demoes it so that means they didn't change Adon since then (why would he demo a character that's not finished?)
Posted by K on March 10, 2010 at 2:05 p.m. #240
I'm disappointed to read Adon "seems very weak." Chun-Li's 2nd ultra sounds too good, but I personally would like to see her become more popular. Dan is "secretly way better now"? Why secretly? I'm liking that El Fuerte is better. Why couldn't they improve Fei Long? Concerning Gen, how sad :(. Guile, sucks for him too :(. On Ken, I like him more as a kick character than a fireball, dp spamming one, disappointed. Liking Bison/Dictator. Vega/Claw: another low-tier that only marginally improved. All in all, doesn't sound that bad. Doesn't sound that great either. I'm thinking there will be less of a gap bewteen the highest tier and lower tier than in vanilla SF4. But gotta wait till the games comes out and an actual tier list can be established. Either way, looking forward to this game. GET HYPE.
Posted by canabalistic999 on March 10, 2010 at 2:06 p.m. #241
all though i trust in what this guy is saying there are two things everyone needs to think about when it comes to any character.
1) New gameplay mechanics like as mentioned very early on that focus attacks are faster to charge up, there are wall bounces now (maybe thats why they nerfed certain moves because they work really well or would have been to good with wall bounces, just a guess). Also the edition of 10 new fighters can call for at least little changes on everyone to assure the max possible balance so these are probably changes to accommodate those new fighters. there are probably a number of things changed in the game as a whole that make these character specific changes liable its just a guess though
2) Capcom has been working on this game for a long time and they have been making 2d fighters for a REALLY long time, They have a team who's job it is to make good 2d fighters I think we can trust them to release fun game again just like games before.
I just hope the game turns out to be fun and as balanced as possible and i really dont think the guy who got 1 days worth of play time can have much of a educated opinion or facts on the game, this game is technical and takes much more than a day to learn even 1 character let alone all 35
Posted by YoungCharly on March 10, 2010 at 2:07 p.m. #242
Dudley is gonna be some bulls*** in this game. =S
What's up with the Chun-li buffs? Did she really need them?
They didn't nerf the characters I like to play. So, overall, satisfying. =)
Posted by Novacane on March 10, 2010 at 2:10 p.m. #243
Damn they did nothing with fei long except give him a
sh!tty ultra that can be broken with armor breaking moves wow.
i used to think counter ultra was gunna be good, now its stupid as sh!t because it can be broken by a move.
Posted by Mash on March 10, 2010 at 2:18 p.m. #244
El Fuerte is getting better, that's what I like to hear.
Posted by BlankaBeast on March 10, 2010 at 2:19 p.m. #245
"Cammy: Spiral Arrow (Cannon Drill) got a little better."
Please elaborate?
Posted by Rocman on March 10, 2010 at 2:21 p.m. #246
@210
Videos 1 & 2: need more work on focus attacks and less jumping
Video 3: Better.
Posted by General_Awesomo on March 10, 2010 at 2:28 p.m. #247
I'm thinking that counter ultras will be fixed. After all, this is a new type of technique added to SSF4. Capcom will see that it needs to be able to work against armor breaking moves like Tatsumaki-Senpuu-Kyaku and the like, and they'll fix it.
The biggest problem is their opinion that low tier characters like Vega and Guile are fine with a few measly fixes. They buff characters like Chun-Li who don't need that many buffs, and nerf characters like Gen, which I don't use but I think used to be a competitive character, no?
One problem is the 3D fighting system. Characters that were fast in previous titles like Vega are now slow as f***. Is it really that tough to animate Vega any faster? Capcom likes to give the illusion that Vega is fast and agile to make up for his low stamina, but lies won't help Vega fare well against like 90% of the SSF4 cast.
My theory is this: if your character was good in earlier titles because he/she was fast, he/she is s*** now. If he/she was good for their strength, they're fine now.
Posted by Rocman on March 10, 2010 at 2:36 p.m. #248
I'll believe it when I play it.
Posted by SoulHoe on March 10, 2010 at 2:50 p.m. #249
"She can juggle off Soul Reflect into Soul Throw or Ultra 1 or EX-Fireball."
Fsck, this is so massive. I'm glad I've stuck with Rose all this time; it sounds like she'll be beastly now. It didn't really make sense not to include these options in the first place - seeing as her damage output is comparatively low - but I'm glad they're here now.
I wonder how they'll factor in the juggle into Ultra animation? Y'know, seeing as the opponent is floored during the current animation? Hmmm.
Posted by Gibo1984 on March 10, 2010 at 2:55 p.m. #250
rose...links into ultra...i was waiting for that for a long time... Rose...oh sweet rose... we had our arguments ....but now everything is on the past.... after April 27... Rose, my ex Ibuki and my lover Chun li are going to have fun....
Posted by Devil on March 10, 2010 at 2:59 p.m. #251
Sweet! Rose got stronger! As a Rose player, I am so happy to hear that.
Posted by ricefarmer on March 10, 2010 at 3:06 p.m. #252
wow pretty stupid
how do they justify not making guile good? when thats all everyone been screaming about?
since when did anyone complain about cammy being to powerful to nerf her?
and gen being completely uselless without his combos.. so how can they take away all his moves?
dumbass capcom doesn't listen, they keep strong fighters strong and weak fighters even weaker
Posted by JerseyFame on March 10, 2010 at 3:10 p.m. #253
upon hearing the news about Guile...lets not let ametuer guile players give the diagnosis...
get Dagger_G or Gilley or Geom Mod Inside to comment on Guile, then the guile communtiy can believe it.
Otherwise its probably not all true.
But for the guy to say there is no easy combo into ultra Im a little dissapointed that shotos are being protected from the ass whoopings they deserve for their spamming and lag tactics.
friggin cornballs.
Posted by AceKillah on March 10, 2010 at 3:16 p.m. #254
*clap* *clap* gj capcom
Chun-Li:- She got 'infinitely better'. Her Ultra 2 combos easily, all day. Up Kicks target combo goes into Ultra 2, as well as EX-Lightning Legs anywhere on the screen. It's very dangerous. Ultra 2 gets all 20 hits every time, if it whiffs for a while and you get hit by the very end of it, you still take the full damage.
yea thats real smart because she wasnt already top tier, the most moves, the best pokes now she has a godlike ultra wow i swear capcom is like infatuated with this stupid b!tch its already annoying enough fighting turtling chun's im just saying.....screw chun screw blanka they can both die....however hakan seems fun
SSF4 Lineup
Main:Dudley,Guile
Secondary:Seth(maybe cody or guy)
Duds and Guile will always be my mains no matter what tier they are
Posted by OmegaWolf on March 10, 2010 at 3:19 p.m. #255
The Ono interview that was just posted states that the game is still going through tweaks. So take this article with a grain of salt. I hope Adon isn't as bad as he says. I've seen vids on him and he does seem a little weak but his specials look very effective.
Posted by joker101 on March 10, 2010 at 3:48 p.m. #256
Realistically, how much time did this guy have with each character? A few minutes, at most? Interesting info, but still, I wouldn't take any of this to the bank.
I also agree with whoever said Vega needs to be faster. If you've got low health and poor damage, you've got to have something that separates you.
And about Guile: unless he mains him, there's no way in only a few minutes he could notice anything different. Guile will never get new moves, that's part of the character, but the subtle changes will be there (hopefully).
Posted by darksydephil on March 10, 2010 at 4:40 p.m. #257
@245
Not as sad as seeing that you can't take a joke you scrub.
Posted by Psycho on March 10, 2010 at 4:51 p.m. #258
@ 263 I think the new speed of the game is gonna help a lot of the fast characters like Vega and Cammy maybe
Posted by Psycho on March 10, 2010 at 5:08 p.m. #259
@ 266 The damage and stamina nerf is gonna hurt sagat a lot, also he can't cancel his lk into anything anymore, so no more lk+tiger knee pressure.
Posted by Shantotto on March 10, 2010 at 6:15 p.m. #260
Like people have been saying on here (some people), this guy only had the game for a day... 1 day for all 35 chars. So we shouldn't take this like it's all the tweaks. There might be a few(or a lot) of things he didn't really notice (priority/minor frame changes etc.). I'm pretty sure there is still something good about lower tier characters (hoping). The armor breaking moves breaking the counter ultras is dumb though imo
Posted by Cascadian1106 on March 10, 2010 at 8:09 p.m. #261
Chun's descriptions actually fit how she was described by those who tried her in her builds of the game. This review only tackled how she's greatly improved with a godly ultra but it didn't talk about how her other tools were improved as well. From what I saw, Ex-Legs now have additional hits with more button presses and Ex-SBK while only dealing 4 hits in damage now has a smaller hitbox and will hurl opponents farther away from Chun making the move a reliable anti-air and safe on block. Cr. MK has also been improved in range , priority and speed resembling its 3s and ST incarnations. The demo shown with her against Honda showed that her stamina seems to have also been increased slightly. In any case, there's no stopping Chun from being a true-blue top tier character now.
Posted by Cauptain on March 10, 2010 at 9:41 p.m. #262
Another joke from CRAPCOM???...1 year for balancing the game and.....NOTHING.
I dont understand CRAPCOM and ONO, they must think we're idiots.
Seth said that an unbalanced game is better. This guy talks so stupid.
I want to see what will be the excuse for not throwing balance updates via DLC. It should be mandatory: for every 5 bugs founds, new patch via DLC.
CRAPCOM ridicules all players who enjoy SF. She knows can throw any crap with the name SF in title that will sell because has a lot of fanatical followers.
The lack of respect for CRAPCOM is humiliating.
She says listens the players and makes a big mess on SSFIV.
Posted by Nelaelu on March 10, 2010 at 9:43 p.m. #263
@rpgfighter #41
The answer is simple to anyone (with at least average intelligence): You make Gouken's ultra unblockable only if it's fully charged (to give others time to get up) otherwise make it blockable
Posted by Awesome_Dhalsim on March 10, 2010 at 9:59 p.m. #264
No changes are needed here :)
-yoga-
thanks capcom,
AWE-sim
Posted by WTF on March 10, 2010 at 10:02 p.m. #265
If what's said about Guile is true...
...then f(_)ck Capcom, seriously.
How hard is it to make Guile's moves FUNCTIONAL? I don't think any of us true Guile players are asking for a hardcore advantage, just let our moves work they way they focking should.
OH BUT WE GET SUNGLASSES!!! They better do something. Oh that's right...FLASH KICK FADC SUNGLASSES. FUUUUUU watch out now!
Seriously Mr. Killian, is trauma of getting raped by Guiles before forcing you to hold him back? Do something about it, you moron.
Posted by Nelaelu on March 10, 2010 at 11:24 p.m. #266
@Vega #204
I wish the whole article was as specific and well-written as your comment!
Posted by streetman88 on March 11, 2010 at 2:36 a.m. #267
OOOOOHHHHH HECK YEAH!looks like my thick thighed warrior CHUN LI IS COMING BACK WITH AVENGENCE with the lightning legs of death and a even more deadly weapon in her arsenal the infamous KIKOSHO!
Posted by Shanic on March 11, 2010 at 2:51 a.m. #268
HOOORAAAAYY for Chun-li. It's great to see a top tier female on there. :D Chun-li is a good in between from fireballs and regular movesets not just fireball spam after fireball spam, oh and...
Ryus ultra wont longer connect after shoryuken?
YESSSSS. I hate shoryuken spammers, cheapest move in the game, glad in got nerfed.
Posted by hoodlum on March 11, 2010 at 5:12 a.m. #269
muthaphukk capcom what the hell is wrong wit you why is dudley the best this gay ass british punk and why you made adon as week as a muthaphukkah and they fukked up the balance thang and tweaks and twists my ass
Posted by ShinBison on March 11, 2010 at 5:18 a.m. #270
Yeah good thing they Buffed Rose!! ^^
and about M.Bison ,I was really hoping they would fix his EX psyhco Crusher, cause its Really Hard to Absorb fireballs (gambiling),i can do it 80% , but i m not sure of it to absorb?it is the Hardest EX move to master??? why isnt it like balrogs(boxer)Ex move properties??
Gen - I really feel sorry for him, gen really need to be like in Alpha3 and Why they remove his hands to Mk combo? thats really stupied =/
Vega(claw)- he should be Faster and give More Damage, because he cant connect to his combos as he likes, u have Bait them all the time , that wont work with shotos scrubs for long , also his super can be seen from a mile away , it shouldnt be like that ! where is the Old vega (Sf2)? >_<
Guile - i was expecting this ,they always keep guile the same,unfortunatly nothing new =/
I hope the New Improved system(FA) would be More useful
SF4:M.bison(Main)/Rose(2nd)
SSF4:M.bison(Main)/Rose(2nd)
Juri(3rd),Dudley(4th),Guy(5th)...
Posted by shannaro1992 on March 11, 2010 at 6:02 a.m. #271
Happy to hear about Sakura's buffs. But not so much about Cammy's nerf to her most reliable anti-air. It really doesn't make sense to me.
Also, I'm not so sure why they would take away Gen's MK->Hands combo. Especially because he's generally regarded as one of the weakest characters in the current SFIV.
And yes, Chun-Li is the strongest woman in the world. She'll probably be among the the top contenders.
Posted by deteknician on March 11, 2010 at 7:53 a.m. #272
Wow. Guile, Vega and Gen were in the bottom 5 worst characters in the game. To a sane person, balancing the game would mean buffing the worst characters a bit, whoever they are. Not stupid Capcom.. and Seth! Wtf you know better, wtf!
So Guile and Vega don't get anything, while Chun who's a good character already get's buffed? Sorry, the only reason for this I can think of is that capcom is racist! Guile too much style and pro America? F that, nerf that stupid yankee.
Posted by Ixion on March 11, 2010 at 11:56 a.m. #273
It's funny how I can care so much about a character I don't play but QUIT nerfing Gen and give him his MK to Hands back... It was the absolute most satisfying combo to do with him, especially when using the forward dash with it. Please change it back WAHHHhhhhh...:'(
Posted by AceKillah on March 11, 2010 at 2:35 p.m. #274
i hope chun is bottom tier......because i hate her
Posted by Mr12000 on March 11, 2010 at 3:24 p.m. #275
So, I didn't bother to read everyone's comments, but I did see someone say that they were glad to see Chun-Li was better... are you serious? MadCatz took care of that when they put out those TE sticks with turbo. She didn't need a damn thing, let alone a 2nd ultra that combos from anything.
Gen nerfs are absolutely ludicrous. His links were hard as hell to do.
Changes on Ryu should be nice. Sagat may be a little more bearable now, too. So glad they changed all that Rufus business. He may still be able to combo everything into his ultra, but at least he won't completely kill you with it.
Posted by Ozlantern on March 11, 2010 at 4:51 p.m. #276
Poor Guile still the black sheep ;(
Posted by TRUEGOUKI on March 11, 2010 at 9:56 p.m. #277
dang gonna miss the loop.. but doesnt make a difference in happy the way akuma is turning out
Posted by Videodrone on March 11, 2010 at 11:28 p.m. #278
BRING BACK DAN'S OTOKO MICHI!
Posted by Cascadian1106 on March 12, 2010 at 3:01 a.m. #279
@285
Sorry to disappoint you dude but there's no way that's happening even in your dreams. At present and without the buffs, Chun's already top mid tier. So, the question now is how far up on the tier list is Chun going to improve considering what she has in her arsenal now? I mean, look at it. Fireball, speed, footsies, pokes, improved cr.+mk, improved anti-air (Ex-SBK), slightly increased stamina and a ridiculously easy to execute ultra that combos from just about anything Chun throws and connects at close range. Like someone said previously, she now has Ryu's ultra-linking properties but even better, easier and has a hell of a lot more combo options to choose from anywhere on the screen.
Posted by Shanic on March 12, 2010 at 8:50 a.m. #280
lol @ people complaining about Chun. We've had to deal with your crappy fireball and uppercut punch turtling for years as Chun users.
We needed something just as good. :)
It's Here, and We're ready. :D
Posted by AceKillah on March 12, 2010 at 12:41 p.m. #281
@292
lol talk about turtling chun IS the definition of turtle and she was already close 2 top tier now they give a godlike ultra that fully connects no matter what gtfouta here with that lame b!tch
Posted by keroberus2 on March 12, 2010 at 7:45 p.m. #282
@293 most probably being a Sagat/Ryu/Akuma/Balrog player
I find it funny how people all complain when it's their main getting nerfed. The whole cast BUT Sagat (>_>...) has been nerfed, and there's nout you or your bad mouthing can do about it.
Posted by cuttyb1987 on March 15, 2010 at 8:42 p.m. #283
I just want Abel to have a descent escape move the roll is so very punishable if A Gief Match-up is still 7-3 I would be highly pissed cuz Abel takes more skill to learn and if he can't roll to protect himself why does he have the move anyway?
Posted by TimbocClock on March 21, 2010 at 8:19 p.m. #284
@ 241 it funny you say that as i read something ages ago saying how they kept cammy out off street fighter 3 as she was becoming to popular! even more then chudders! ppl make off that wat you will!
my char is cammy and its absolutly rediculouse they have weakend canon spike as i swear its supposed to be her most powerul attack so why weaken it. i was looking foward to the counter but as it can be knocked out by 2hit armour brake then thats just stupid as well. i cant belive im saying this about a game but im really upset lol actullay it isnt funny.
i hate faceing guile and he has a annoying personailtey (mabey cuz im british and well hes american) but come on how could they do that to him. i was really looking foward to this game but trading this has put a dampner on it!
Posted by dkillscps on March 27, 2010 at 3:38 a.m. #285
the counter ultra can be broken because, guess what, its meant to be used as a COUNTER. amen to #169.
and to people STILL complaining about sagat...
his overall damage is down, stamina dropped 100hp to 1000,
s.lk hits twice even less linking ability, and who knows what else.
if you're a moderately decent player that understands zoning,footsies,block strings etc, then sagat was not all that unbeatable.
i'd say trade to ultra gone, a smaller hp decrease(50 less), and a little less ultra damage would've been all he needed, and like 20 less damage on tu.
tigers knees should be untouched.
sagat inside is pretty bad, he had all these tools because if he gets cornered, it's over.
my friend who is a regular at chinatown fair and battle arc is saying sagats are going to get trampled.
scrubs got their wish.
time for chun to be op, 3s status.
