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Marvel vs. Capcom 3 moves, controls & air combo button

Posted by Jonathan 'Catalyst' Grey • June 15, 2010 at 3:41 p.m. PDT
At E3, there's a poster with the current moves listings for Marvel vs. Capcom 3, along with another display showing some of the gameplay elements. Speedbrkr took some photos of both items.


Click images for larger versions

Seth Killian also offered up an explanation of the Air Combo Button — previously known as the Exchange Button — on MTV Multiplayer's blog. He states:

"The idea with this new button," [Killian] explains, "is to have the launcher — the attack that pops you up in the air — be the same for everybody because people were asking us 'why is it different for all the characters?' And we didn't really have an answer."

"In one sense it's easier," he confides "but it's deeper too." The Air Combo button does much more than just launch enemies in the air to open them up for air combos, you can actually use it to continue launching opponent characters in multiple directions. "Once you're in the air you can do traditional combos with punches and kicks, but if you hit the Exchange button or the Air Combo button while holding up or to the side, you'll tag in a partner who will connect and continue that combo in the air." A feat that can be done up to three times to cycle through your complete roster.

And that's just part of it really. Players on the defensive side of an Air Combo can pre-empt their opponents next attack direction and use the button and direction together to counterattack their opponent and start a new combo of their own. Killian reminds me, "You don't have to make a game harder to make it deeper."

Comments

SephirothinHD said on June 15, 2010 at 3:24 p.m.

lmfao @ #1 you will get flamed in 3... 2.... 1...

#1
Bison said on June 15, 2010 at 3:38 p.m.

Again, I think it's terrible that they want to stick with these controls. The game looks good, but looking how it controls totally hinders the playability of this title.

I bought Tatsunoko vs Capcom, but haven't played it since due to the bad controls. The more that I see this, the more I am writing this off as Tatsunoko vs Capcom 2.

Too bad for a guy that waited over ten years for a sequel.

#2
cuttyb1987 said on June 15, 2010 at 3:45 p.m.

can we get an Marvel and Capcom 3 animated movie to tie in the game letsss gooo

#3
Dan_CiTi said on June 15, 2010 at 3:47 p.m.

Sounds fine to me.

#4
Lolento said on June 15, 2010 at 3:50 p.m.

@#5 Bison
They're not ideal, but honestly I like them better than a 4-button scheme. The medium attacks really do matter in Street Fighter, I'd rather lose the punch/kick distinction than lose the L/M/H distinction.

#5
Bob said on June 15, 2010 at 3:51 p.m.

Seth is a troll, should have left it normal button layout. TvC buttons suck.

#6
Blackzilla said on June 15, 2010 at 3:52 p.m.

hmm, i'm not too sure i like this since i got used to mvc 2 controls, but i will welcom at least a mvc2 "feel" to the controls anyway

#7
Bison said on June 15, 2010 at 3:55 p.m.

I still don't see why they won't add multiple control schemes. How difficult could it be to set this?

#8
Dan_CiTi said on June 15, 2010 at 3:58 p.m.

I don't understand how this is TvC controls. This game has 6 not 4 buttons...and TvC didn't have a air combo button either.

#9
Creeper said on June 15, 2010 at 4:11 p.m.

What the hell is Ryu saying?

#10
riku45 said on June 15, 2010 at 4:12 p.m.

Its more buttons than TVC. You have 2 partner buttons, L,M,H, Air combo button. Thats a 6 button layout right there. TVC only had 4 L,M,H and a partner button. Also The new air combo makes air combos with partners easier than in tvc. I wonder if they will have a similar combo cancel like they they did with TVC and the barouque

#11
Ex_Ein said on June 15, 2010 at 4:14 p.m.

WTF DID THEY DO TO HULK'S COMMANDS?

#12
SomeLoser said on June 15, 2010 at 4:32 p.m.

BEAUTIFULLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!! THEY FIXED IT!...lets be honest...mvc2 was trash

#13
FroggyMan77 said on June 15, 2010 at 4:44 p.m.

What was wrong with TvC's controls? Is it the fact that they're accessible? I think people are hating on that game because it wasn't MvC3. Well, now you have MvC3, so stop whining about the controls. Capcom's not going to listen to your complaints.

Although, I am disappointed at characters only having 2 Hyper Combos.

#14
Lolento said on June 15, 2010 at 5:03 p.m.

@#18 FroggyMan77
I was disappointed at first too. But I bet they're just saving the lv3 hypers for later. I mean, where the hell is Deadpool's health bar attack?

#15
SHZNTT said on June 15, 2010 at 5:28 p.m.

So now i guess everyone just have one light attack, medium etc. wow this game is different.

#16
eclipso said on June 15, 2010 at 5:40 p.m.

This control setup is disappointing, I would rather have the good ol six button, hell I would take the four button from MvC2 instead.

#17
jammasta said on June 15, 2010 at 5:51 p.m.

Controls are crap. Rest of the game looks awesome though.

#18
HypahVypah said on June 15, 2010 at 6:10 p.m.

I hate "back + partner assist" to tag out.

just puttin' that out there.

#19
Shaft said on June 15, 2010 at 6:17 p.m.

mvc2 (hell, the old vs series) was better in that regard, but since mvc3 has heavy tvc elements...

#20
linkdude said on June 15, 2010 at 6:22 p.m.

uhhh....how am i supposed to incorporate these buttons on a stick? TvC was easy enough. L, M, H, on top and P on your thumb, MvC2 had the 4 attack buttons then the partner buttons, but what about this? Is it supposed to be like TvC? or like MvC2?

#21
Bynoe said on June 15, 2010 at 6:29 p.m.

Colour me dissapointed... seriously Capcom, you're usually pretty good for listening to your fans; PLEASE, if you have any sense at all, include an alternative button layout that's closer to the MVC2 button scheme. I know you want to make the game more accessible for 'casual' gamers but MVC2 was already simplified a lot compared to all your other 2D fighters and this is really taking it a step too far.

#22
KiD_LupE said on June 15, 2010 at 6:34 p.m.

I SERIOUSLY hope they are saving the LVL 3 Hyper combos for later! Because No FINAL JUSTICE makes me sad.... PLEASE dont let me down like that capcom. I'm hoping they are just more cinematic and will be shown later like the 2nd Ultras in SSF4

#23
MeleeMan said on June 15, 2010 at 6:43 p.m.

So, to all of the people that's saying "get used to the controls!!! There's nothing wrong with them!!!" I'm about to show you how this control scheme is a complete **** up.

Alright, imagine you're fighting Mags(Magneto) in MvC2. He's rushing and crossing up the **** out of you, you're blocking everything, he's pushing you into a corner, you see an opening, you use CapCom's AA assist and you make him block or you hit him, it doesn't matter because you got him off of you regardless.

Lets use the same senario on MvC3, same characters, same situation. He's rushing you down and crossing you up etc.. You see an opening, you try for CapCom's assist, but oh noes! You tag out instead. Why? BECAUSE YOU CAN'T ****ING BLOCK AND USE YOUR ASSIST BECAUSE <- + ASSIST = TAG OUT.

If Mags and Storm are in this game they're gonna be A LOT worse this time around because you can't even stop their rush down.

Solution? Both Assist buttons = tag out.

#24
Smorgasboard said on June 15, 2010 at 6:48 p.m.

@Clovr4Lyf

It actually is more complicated to find and remember the launch command for 30 plus characters. It'd a lot less fun too.

Just because the command is the same doesn't mean the launch move is the same. That's like saying all punches, kicks, throws and specials moves are the same because they all have the same command.

Chun Li doesn't launch with a PUNCH button, it's called the Air Combo button.

#25
Sektah84 said on June 15, 2010 at 6:49 p.m.

theres never no pleasing you people! stfu its 2010 not 1999 times change

#26
MeleeMan said on June 15, 2010 at 6:55 p.m.

^^Good luck getting out off being rushdowned.

Honestly, the control scheme isn't THAT bad, it would take some getting used to, but it's doable. But the way you tag out HAS to go.

#27
n00b_saib0t said on June 15, 2010 at 7:25 p.m.

#29 said what i was going to say. i was 100% okay with L M H E A1 A1 as the button scheme, then i read on that poster that i cant block and call assists at the same time. capcom needs to fire someone. now.

#28
DarkDream said on June 15, 2010 at 7:27 p.m.

Im sick of all these complaints. Anyone ever play TvC? YOU CANT TAG WHILE BLOCKING AN ATTACK. Jesus freaking Christ. Stop complaining about the control scheme. There are also command normals, like F H. There are standing/crouching links: L, cr L M, Cr M, H, Cr H. Stop complaining about a control scheme if you don't know what it likes. Set up the controls as

L H A1
M SP A2

if you want the MvC2 feel. Or your own way. It doesnt matter. Bottom line, PLAY THE GAME before you freaking judge.

#29
KenScrub said on June 15, 2010 at 7:43 p.m.

Don't see what all the tears are for. The controls are fine. If you ever played Blazblue it was A,B,C,D. Its just about the same. Light is A, Medium is B, Heavy is C and your D is your Air Combo.

#30
DarkDream said on June 15, 2010 at 7:44 p.m.

@29

Also, everyone has an Air Dash. his Rushdown will be no worse than anyone elses. The fact that Im FAIRLY CERTAIN they wont allow infinites in this one will also make him, I dunno, fair?

#31
Shaft said on June 15, 2010 at 7:45 p.m.

@DarkDream
command normals aren't "accessible". it's not about an assist while in blockstun, it's assisting while holding back. the mvc2 way gave options to people in defense and offense, while the new scheme seems to reward the attacker. quite a difference. Tagging in mvc2 made more sense, with either 2 punches or 2 kicks.

Accidental tags aren't fun as well, but whatever...

#32
DarkDream said on June 15, 2010 at 7:50 p.m.

But what of push blocking? That seems to work just fine in this game, considering that you can push back, call assist, wait to see what happens, then capitalize. And again, you aren't gunna be in an endless block string in this game, judging from the 7 videos I've seen repeatedly. And Command normals are very "accessible" just hold a direction and press the same button. That really isnt that hard at all. Also, when you're in the air, its L L M M H H, to make up for the lack of a light kick. Just tap the same button twice. It really isn't that difficult to wrap your mind around, just different.

#33
n00b_saib0t said on June 15, 2010 at 8:15 p.m.

darkdream, you're an idiot. no one said a damn thing about calling assists from blockstun. you could never do that before, so i doubt you can now. we're saying you cant start to block and call an assist, or just as important, walk back and call an assist. back+assist tags. any combination of back+assist should, therefore, tag. walking back, trying to block and call your AA to break pressure, these things will initiate a tag. L+M and M+H should have been tag.

#34
KingItachi said on June 15, 2010 at 8:17 p.m.

I'll pass on this not a fan of the new button scheme.

#35
phoenixkusanagi said on June 15, 2010 at 8:17 p.m.

Haters will hate, won't they? Whether or not they even play the game....

...let's just all take in a breath of fresh air aND BE GLAD A NEW !@#$ING SEQUEL IS OUT. Jeez, it only took them 11 years or so. Be happy. Complaining now about the control scheme is pissing in the wind IMHO...They've already made it, and from the looks of the vids, SOMEONE is effective at it. So just sit back, relax, and wait. You can all complain about it when you get that very first copy and make summary judgement from there. Until then, pop a cork in it. Please. We already have a bad enough rep as gamers for being spoiled brats as is.

#36
luisfernando13 said on June 15, 2010 at 8:24 p.m.

@ n00b_saib0t

i agree with you on how they should have made it to tag out. unless they make it that you have to do that to do a hyper like polimar in TVC lol

#37
DarkDream said on June 15, 2010 at 8:28 p.m.

I can see your point, but people don't seem to notice that this game doesn't have the same pressure set ups so far. Its not like MvC2, if you can get a Light attack out, all of which are inherently faster in execution than assists, you can switch roles in pressure by turning it into your own combo. The fact of the matter is since there isnt a Magneto to ride your balls 98% of an entire match, nor will there be due to the brokenness thereof, you won't be in situations where assist blocking would be missed.

That said, tags should be something along the lines of Any Attack Button+ Partner or Exchange+Partner, something that would have to be a deliberate thought rather than an accidental execution.

#38
DarkDream said on June 15, 2010 at 8:33 p.m.

Also, people, please. Find TvC somewhere and play it. Get the feel of it. Learn some of it. Then complain.

#39
phoenixkusanagi said on June 15, 2010 at 8:38 p.m.

@#44

THANK you.

#40
Blackzilla said on June 15, 2010 at 8:46 p.m.

i also have one more complaint, but it isn't that bad. where is deadpool's health bar attack? i hope they put it in later. and i was hoping deadpool would use his katanas a little more, i know hes a martial arts expert and everything, but part of the reason why i like deadpool is cause hes always strapped with blades. i'm just sayin, but i'm really enjoying it right now and its definatly a first day pick up for me regardless of what they do

#41
dizzy said on June 15, 2010 at 9:03 p.m.

Im not one to complain about games changing cuz thats whats happen in sequels but the undefined L\M\H just isnt marvel. I just feel like its a slap in the face to the people who really loved mvc2 and played it during its life span. Casual players dont care about the controls they that just want to play ken and wolverine at the same time. Ive handed a casual player a controller that buttons were set to match a stick so many times and they just didnt care or realize the difference. If they left the controls like they were the same amount of people would buy it and plus they were simple to begin with. not being able to control whether u want to do a lp or lk and the way you tag out just makes it the seem like tvc not mvc. i still think its going to be fun thought cuz i like both games but at the same time i want them play different from each other

#42
DarkDream said on June 15, 2010 at 9:05 p.m.

Yeah, that's where I can feel all you guys' pain. After spending sooo much time to learn something, then have it change like that, would be upsetting. But still, give it a shot. It may not be the same, but it will still be wonderfully entertaining. As a videogame, you cant ask more from it.

#43
supershinbison said on June 15, 2010 at 9:41 p.m.

b!tch, b!tch, b!tch and even more b!tching. that's all i see here. stupid comments like this: "waaaa my controls are changed:(" "waaaaa mvc2 is better" "waaaaa i haven't played the game yet but i KNOW the control suck regardless if the videos have showed otherwise." damn this amount of crying is ridiculous and plain annoying. face facts capcom is giving the game a face lift. if mvc2 was different from mvc1 then what did u expect? i mean seriously to complain about a game you haven't played is childish. i say this to everyone just pick up the game like you already plan on doing and stop b!tching like a bunch of whiners. everyone complained about sf4 before it's release and look it's an awesome game and even got an update but still i will still the infamous waaaaa cry baby bs from a bunch of b!tching whiners.

#44
ChunLi said on June 15, 2010 at 9:53 p.m.

Well, from the look at all the haters around here, I am in full position to say this:

SCREW YOU MVC2 PURISTS! If you can't accept a BALANCED game with BALANCED controls, then SCREW. YOU. TvC was THE MOST BALANCED crossover, and I AM GLAD MvC3 is taking after it.
What's that? TvC's controls sucked? Have you played with a Wiimote or a Classic controller? Play it with a Classic and you're set for life. MvC3? There's no avoiding it, haters gonna hate, especially with a game they HAVEN'T EVEN *PLAYED* YET! Calm the fook down and enjoy the gameplay videos, no one needs a buttsore.

Call MvC3 what you want, but it's looking better than what MvC2 EVER was.

#45
Bison said on June 15, 2010 at 10:18 p.m.

We'll see what Capcom say about this control scheme when they see their financial statements next year when this game releases.

#46
Smorgasboard said on June 15, 2010 at 10:23 p.m.

Capcom will probably say that it is AWESOME!!!!

#47
MeleeMan said on June 15, 2010 at 10:27 p.m.

Yeah, I'm with ya Chun!

SCREW YOU GUYS!!! I DONT CARE IF MVC3 PROBABLY WOULDNT EVEN BE HERE IF IT WASNT FOR YOU GUYS!!! SCREW YOU!!!

#48
DarkDream said on June 15, 2010 at 10:29 p.m.

Well, you guys have a rather violent view of it, but yeah, I agree with Chun and Bison.

#49
MeleeMan said on June 15, 2010 at 10:34 p.m.

ALSO, SCREW YOU GUYS FOR WANTING A MARVEL GAME TO PLAY LIKE A MARVEL GAME!!! TVC2, I mean, MVC3 FTW!!!

#50
SephirothinHD said on June 15, 2010 at 10:34 p.m.

f**k the controls we have deadpool and dante.

#51
dizzy said on June 15, 2010 at 10:40 p.m.


@#50 balanced controls lol. since when are controls unbalanced. tvc is fun as hell but not the most balanced crossover, ever seen the first version of karas or zero in a good players hands. I would give the title of most balance to marvel super heroes vs street fighter but people dont like it because of that reason lol. also if it wasn't for us mvc2 purist keeping the game alive for a decade mvc3 would of probably never been made. That is why I can understand some people frustration even though they haven't played the game yet.

#52
supershinbison said on June 15, 2010 at 10:49 p.m.

i love how ppl forget that mvc1 and mvc2 are different from eachother yet they say "waaaaa don't change marvel." "waaaaa i want it to be just like mvc2." remember it's mvc3 not mvc2 so if you want to suck mvc2's nuts then be my guest and play mvc2 just stop b!tching and accept the fact that capcom is trying to adjust and fix the gameplay. personaly i welcome it but in the end people complain about everything. here's what ppl would say if mvc3 played exactly like mvc2 "waaaaa it plays too much like mvc2 waaaa it's not innovative enough waaaaa." in the end these cry babies just do one thing cry like a b!tch.

#53
KingofSarus said on June 15, 2010 at 11:11 p.m.

@ChunLi (#50)
Your very first console was the Nintendo Wii, wasn't it?

#54
sethkillianfanboy said on June 15, 2010 at 11:48 p.m.

"You don't have to make a game harder to make it deeper."

Removing individual launchers reduces strategic depth and lowers the skill cap (what Seth calls 'harder'). Adding extra functions to the launcher button increases strategic depth and raises the skill cap. So what we're looking at is a trade off in strategic depth between learning individual launchers, and using the launcher button to cause further air juggling.

Seth's sentence is wrong, however, because strategic depth is directly tied to the skill cap in a PvP game. You can't raise a games skill cap without increasing the depth (or amount of skill) that can be utilized in a game.

#55
DarkDream said on June 16, 2010 at 5:22 a.m.

@60

Uhm, Street Fighter 2?

#56
ViolentDjango said on June 16, 2010 at 6:46 a.m.

"Removing individual launchers reduces strategic depth and lowers the skill cap (what Seth calls 'harder')

No it doesn't. If that's your standpoint on it, than the Marvel vs. Capcom series as a whole is considerably less skillful than most other fighting games in that a large number of specials are just Quarter circle + two attack button inputs. Skill/Strategy aren't measured by difficulty, they are measured by planning and thought. Chess is one of the single most skillful and strategic games in existence, yet you can teach the basic movements to a 5 year old and have them grasp it in minutes. The game, meanwhile, has so much strategic depth that there are matches that take months, or even years, for people to finish. The skill and strategy comes from knowing when and where to use a particular attack or approach to battle, not from being able to preform some over-the-top difficult button input before someone else.

"Adding extra functions to the launcher button increases strategic depth and raises the skill cap. So what we're looking at is a trade off in strategic depth between learning individual launchers, and using the launcher button to cause further air juggling."

Skill is the ability to execute and place a strategy effectively. Strategy is a carefully considering an effective and efficient approach to achieving a goal. Having multiple different launchers across different character's neither improves nor degrades strategy, it's largely irrelevant to strategy/skill as whole. So why bother even making it different?

"Seth's sentence is wrong, however, because strategic depth is directly tied to the skill cap in a PvP game. You can't raise a games skill cap without increasing the depth (or amount of skill) that can be utilized in a game."

Complex button inputs and variations have absolutely no bearing on strategic depth. Going "Character X uses d/f+k as his launcher, character Y uses d/f+p as her launcher" Doesn't make you more skillful. The end result of having memorized those two different inputs is the same as if they were the same: You can execute the launcher whenever you want. There is no additional skill awarded a player for knowing this, it doesn't make them better. However, it does take away from the experience for new players who haven't memorized the entire character roster's launcher setups.

#57
THawk said on June 16, 2010 at 9:23 a.m.

All you f*ggots do everyday is complain. If you don't like it, don't buy it.

#58
Rift said on June 16, 2010 at 9:48 a.m.

Instead of creating one Control method, why don't they just use both control methods.

You have 'Automatic' for TVC style and Manual for 'Mvc2' style that way everyone is happy.

Automatic mode would use the aircombo button and the 3 attack buttons

Manual would use 4 attack buttons with the launchers having to be input directly,Tagging out would only 2 buttons

Im sure capcom has the time to do this.

#59
KenScrub said on June 16, 2010 at 10:50 a.m.

If only tears could cure cancer.....you could be all saving so many lives right now.....if only.

#60
n00b_saib0t said on June 16, 2010 at 12:20 p.m.

jesus youre all stupid. youre all going on about people complaining about the controls, way to ignore the point of the post **** sticks. tell me ONE way my concern about tagging while walking back and calling assists isnt legitimate. you ****ing cant, because its a valid concern. i dont give a damn what they call each button. you still have 4 attack and 2 assist buttons just like mvc2, but the way you tag is about 5 different kinds of stupid, and so are all of you who dont understand that like 90% of us arent complaining about L M H AC A1 and A2 but rather the way things are done with said control scheme.

#61
ViolentDjango said on June 16, 2010 at 12:28 p.m.

"nstead of creating one Control method, why don't they just use both control methods.

You have 'Automatic' for TVC style and Manual for 'Mvc2' style that way everyone is happy.

Automatic mode would use the aircombo button and the 3 attack buttons

Manual would use 4 attack buttons with the launchers having to be input directly,Tagging out would only 2 buttons

Im sure capcom has the time to do this."

Because then you'd have "hardcore" players complaining that using the Automatic controls is cheap and giving other players an advantage. You couldn't justifiably give the Automatic controls a negative effect on gameplay, because that would discourage people who want to get better at the game from using it.

The whole point is to make the game more user friendly because Capcom can't survive with nothing but whiny, "hardcore" fans who'd sooner pirate a game than pay for it anyway -- They are working to appeal to more people as opposed to catering to people who complain about games they've barely seen and haven't ever played.

#62
sentine145 said on June 16, 2010 at 12:28 p.m.

MVC2 had hard controls ???? GTFO!!!!! Some people say mvc2 is too crazy, ok I can understand that. But now Capcom is Dumbing down MVC3 to 3 attack buttons? UGH!!!! What's next the new tvc will have a 10 hit combo button because capcom wants grandma to be able to jump on in. Street fighter had 20 years of success with 6 buttons why on earth would capcom do this to us marvel players. Change the gameplay and rebalance but why ruin the controls marvel 2 is a 10 year old game and the controls were fine and felt natural. oh well guess i better dust off my wii and TVC it for now to prep for pressing L,L,L,M,launcher button(damnnit... it just sounds like an easy setting)

#63
joskun said on June 16, 2010 at 12:53 p.m.

@ViolentDjango, dude you are so on. People think having the same move scheme all over the place adds depth, how retarded.
@Rift, umm.. actually that might be a good idea but that extra attack button would be missing in an "automatic" experience. I still think it's fine, change is def good for me. I understand what people are saying about how they won't be able to block and use assists because that would tag. Capcom could just replace the <= + Assist Partner A or B with just 2 attacking buttons for tags leaving us with the back button and the assist buttons free to use and problem is solved!
Even better would be l+m for tagA and m+h for tagB.
Any ideas?

#64
sethkillianfanboy said on June 16, 2010 at 1 p.m.

@62 You have no clue what skill and strategy mean. You did just waste a whole lot of time typing up nonsense, though.

#65
Rift said on June 16, 2010 at 1:36 p.m.

@ViolentDjango "Because then you'd have "hardcore" players complaining that using the Automatic controls is cheap and giving other players an advantage. You couldn't justifiably give the Automatic controls a negative effect on gameplay, because that would discourage people who want to get better at the game from using it.

The whole point is to make the game more user friendly because Capcom can't survive with nothing but whiny, "hardcore" fans who'd sooner pirate a game than pay for it anyway -- They are working to appeal to more people as opposed to catering to people who complain about games they've barely seen and haven't ever played."

Ok so to make it more user friendly why not put both control methods in,I think It would do them justice that way for implementing both ways of control, It would make everyone on both sides happier. Doing that would be making the audience bigger if that's the gameplan for them.

#66
kingofthesharks said on June 16, 2010 at 1:54 p.m.

I can see where they going. Basic gameplay functions should not be rooted in memorization. It's pointless and makes one feel nerdier. I never had intention of memorizing all the combos of every character in MVC2, That's just too much. I'm fine with having every character use different inputs for their special moves, cuz that at least gives them a learning curve and thats the way it's always been since Street Fighter 2. But people buy the VS. games for the tag teams and air combos and if newcomers can't pick that stuff up in 20 minutes then they'll be turned off. There aren't gonna be a decent new generation of players if something that should be simple is too confusing and different for every character. We've gotten past the point where it felt rewarding to throw a hadouken for the first time in SF2. Special moves, hyper moves, and air combos should be intentional basics of VS. games and should take about 5 minutes per character to learn. Wave dashing, triangle jumping, infinites and stuff should be left to intermediate/advanced players. Think Smash Bros Melee. There's a gazillion casual gamers who know how to play the game and control every single character without fail because the basics of tilt, smash, specials, shield and dodge moves have all the same execution. But on the competitive scene, wave-dashing, spiking, edge hogging, zoning, and chain grabs are the name of the game. So nobody should worry because those of us who played MVC2 WILL find our share of advanced tactics and exploits. Even if beginners can do air combos, advanced players can still rip them apart by outsmarting them with the counterattack system.

#67
FroggyMan77 said on June 16, 2010 at 2:34 p.m.

THANK YOU, ViolentDjango and kingofthesharks for actually having some common sense in this grand sea of ignorance.

Making the game less difficult to play doesn't make it less strategic. Look at TvC, Smash Bros., BlazBlue. They, especially the former two, don't have extremely steep learning curves, and yet they're still some the most strategic fighters out today.

Capcom's not going to change the controls, and they should have to. GET THAT THROUGH YOUR HEADS.

#68
VicViper said on June 16, 2010 at 2:35 p.m.

This new Air Combo Breaker looks like its broken, no one should be able to stop someone mid combo for with no risk or cost

#69
MeleeMan said on June 16, 2010 at 4:47 p.m.

Actually, SSBM takes extremly fast hands which is one of it's main problems (because it took so long to learn the techs)

#70
ChunLi said on June 16, 2010 at 5:30 p.m.

@59 (KingofSarus)
My first console was the Super Nintendo, thank you very much. I'm a 1991 baby, and i've seen it all. I have played countless arcade games and various tastes in fighting games. My first crossover experience was MvC, and I had good knowledge of Street Fighter beforehand.

When it comes to controls, TvC had it VERY simple, but it was the mechanics themselves that made it deep. It were the small things, such as Mega Crash and Baroque, that made the whole damn thing balanced. MvC2 was unfair and COMPLETELY unbalanced, but was good for VERY casual matches. When I got TvC, I thought to myself "Finally, a good crossover with deep mechanics". X-Men vs Street Fighter and MvC were good games, had their infinites, but was much more tolerable compared to MvC2, which is a glitch-ridden, top tier, hitbox abusing, gutter trash of a bad game.

MvC is a GIANT step in the RIGHT direction, starting with controls and mechanics. Like I said, I am a 1991 baby, have seen a WIDE variety of games, and know what i'm talking about. So, screw you KingofSarus, and I would love to hear your first console. Would it happen to be the Microsoft Xbox 360?

#71
ChunLi said on June 16, 2010 at 5:45 p.m.

@57 ( dizzy)

What I mean by "Balanced controls", is an easier way for players to approach it. Every single time I have my non-fighter friends come over to play my library of games, and when we play MvC2, I have to keep responding to:
"How do I tag out?"
"Square+Cross or Triangle+Circle."

I'm sure i'm not the only one who goes through this. Even those at the arcade are looking at the buttons and trying to figure out how to play. They want to play, because it looks like a really fun game, but they can't, because it's not easily accessible to non-pros.

Also, I have seen many a great Zero, including the SSF4 pro, Mago.

MSHvsSF was great, and I really enjoyed it, so I can agree with you there. lol

Also, I like how the MvC2 community has kept the spirit alive to demand a third installment, but they are a bunch of bitches!

#72
MeleeMan said on June 17, 2010 at 12:32 a.m.

"X-Men vs Street Fighter and MvC were good games, had their infinites, but was much more tolerable compared to MvC2"

Wat, have you seen Wolvie in xmvssf?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZO52H...

The only character that has a retarded infinite like that is IM (since Mag doesn't really use his since he's to busy crossing people up).

Lets see another retarded infinite, this time off of MvC

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGhaR5...

The point is that ALL of the Marvel games are stupid broken, MvC3 should also be this way. I shouldn't be dumbass TvC2+Marvel characters.

#73
ChunLi said on June 17, 2010 at 5:30 a.m.

As stated before, much more *tolerable* than MvC2. Also, are you saying that MvC3 *should* be broken?

"I shouldn't be dumbass TvC2+Marvel characters."
(I'll take it that you meant to say "It shouldn't...")

I'll also take it that you didn't like TvC, or you had a bad experience with it, and now shun it because it's "Too different". TvC wasn't a bad game, it was balanced.

(I'm not blowing up on you now, just all the haters on the rest of this thread, but you may take it if you feel this applies to you.)

What's bad about putting FUN back in VIDEO GAMES?!? No matter how nerd you are, EVERYONE should be able to look at a video game as a VIDEO GAME!

Need I remind you.

THIS IS A VIDEO GAME! NOT A SPORT!

Of course there are competitions, but all in all, this is a game, people. Keeping the spirit alive is a sign of your fandom, but if you can't handle how things are going, you might want to reconsider your affiliations. I am a BIG time Square-Enix fan as well, and I am pissed at them for screwing up the Final Fantasy series after FFX. The only thing keeping them on my mind is the Kingdom Hearts series, and if they screw up with that, I say "Well this was fun, but I gotta go."

I don't stay with something I hate, and neither should ANY of you guys.

Bottom line:
Crossovers are changing, deal with it, or play MvC2 and pick Mag/Storm/Sentinel and glitch it up while crying in a corner.

#74
ChunLi said on June 17, 2010 at 5:34 a.m.

(Mistake: *screwing up FF from FFX.)

#75
ViolentDjango said on June 17, 2010 at 6:15 a.m.

"THIS IS A VIDEO GAME! NOT A SPORT!

Of course there are competitions, but all in all, this is a game, people. Keeping the spirit alive is a sign of your fandom, but if you can't handle how things are going, you might want to reconsider your affiliations."

I'm going to ignore the FF stuff... but FYI, competitive gaming is a sport. Not a sport in the traditional sense, but a sport nonetheless -- much the same way poker is a sport. See: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/...

A simplified control scheme helps lend to the fair play elements required for a competitive game/sport. The idea that looking at a game as a sport makes it un-fun is asinine -- people wouldn't play sports if they weren't fun. Anyone who thinks that simplifying the controls is going to ruin the strategic/skill value of the game, obviously wasn't looking at it right in the first place.

#76
Smorgasboard said on June 17, 2010 at 8:11 a.m.

You know who won't be happy with having two control schemes? The people who has to make it work. The controls are so vastly different, that each character would need moves that are specific to each control scheme. It's going to take a lot of work.

Pressing any two attack button or all the attack buttons is a dash. Air Combo + Assist is a better alternative.

#77
monoStatiK said on June 17, 2010 at 10:29 a.m.

I think the controls are fine. The only complaints is pressing back and assist to tag out because blocking and assisting is essential. You need to create some pressure for someone trying to rush you down. I still don't understand ever since tvc they decided to use back and assist to tag out. After playing tvc since it came out, I still haven't found out the benefit of that control sceme. I only found out that it limits options. I hope there is nonstop assisting in this game and no waiting until it says assist ok. This is a team game, you are suppose to see assists flying all over the screen and that is what made mvc2 good!

#78
ChunLi said on June 17, 2010 at 11:21 a.m.

@81 (ViolentDjango)

I had the only fight with my significant other about games and sports the other day. lol

I have come to the conclusion that Poker and Video Games should be classified as "Competitions", the same that Cheer leading would be in, and others that have those that make it serious enough to be competitive, but not necessarily a "sport".

I agree with you 100% about a simplified control scheme making it more accessible to a wider variety of competitors. Also those who think this game is going to be ruined by controls alone, which is about 70% eventhubs at the moment, will still end up buying it because they have been waiting for it.

Haters gonna hate, and I will bet money that everyone WILL end up buying it DESPITE their bitching.

#79
MeleeMan said on June 17, 2010 at 1:51 p.m.

"As stated before, much more *tolerable* than MvC2. Also, are you saying that MvC3 *should* be broken?:

ahhhhhh... yeah

Seth said this, like, 5 times. Every marvel has been broken and I don't understand why people like you want this to lay like TvC. IF YOU WANT TVC GO PLAY FVCKING TVC!!! MARVEL ISNT TVC!!!

"I'll also take it that you didn't like TvC, or you had a bad experience with it, and now shun it because it's "Too different". TvC wasn't a bad game, it was balanced."

I didn't have a bad experience with TvC. TvC is a good game (I don't really like the controls but w/e), but why can't you get that I want (and so does a lot of other people) a Marvel game to play like a Marvel game? That's like making KoF game like a SF game and then expecting the KoF fans to be happy with it. THEY PLAY KOF BECAUSE ITS KOF, IF THEY WANTED TO PLAY SF THEY WOULD HAVE IN THE FIRST PLACE. It's the same deal here.

#80
ChunLi said on June 17, 2010 at 2:27 p.m.

@85 (MeleeMan)
I understand your..frustration, especially in this matter, but everyone will have to cope with the changes that fighting games are going through, the same way other games have slowly changed through the years. Since Marvel games have been very similar to the Street Fighter games in many aspects, all the way back to X-Men:Children of the Atom, people have grown accustomed to them.

Here's my main point:
-The crossover between Marvel and Capcom is THE FIRST crossover series of gaming, so of course, other crossovers will be IN RELATION to the MarvelxCapcom games.
-The Capcom vs SNK games were more down to earth because of the fact they are 2 fighting companies in one game, and their mechanics are more balanced from the get-go.
-When it comes to Tatsunoko vs Capcom, this is when people started complaining. It was the fact that it is too different. Giving the great reception that TvC had, i'm sure when they were designing MvC3, they wanted to make a wide range of fans happy, both new and old. Giving the MvC fans that crazy, fast action, Assist happy, seizure-ific gameplay that they love, with TvC graphics and simplified controls for *both* sides of the spectrum can be relatively happy.

I know you, and alot of people, didn't necessarily like the control scheme, but I'm sure once you get your hands on it (With an Arcade Stick, i'm sure. lol) that you'll warm up to the game flow. Look at the gameplay already! It's crazy like MvC2, and this is the current build. It'll play very much like MvC2, but you'll have an easier time pulling off combos and staying alive a bit longer.

#81
MeleeMan said on June 17, 2010 at 4:54 p.m.

Yeah, I guess you're right, but they should still change the way you tag out. That's one thing that I couldn't warm up to.

#82
ChunLi said on June 17, 2010 at 5:41 p.m.

I'm just trying to be fair in this whole thing, especially when i'm caught in-between the two extremes of this genre of gaming. When it comes to tagging out, I can see how it can be a problem. In TvC, I want to Tag Out and I end up Assisting, therefore I have to wait even longer to Tag Out again. Hopefully, somewhere down the road, there might be a simpler way to do it, since it looks like the control scheme is like this:

[No Use] [No Use]
[Assist 1] [Assist 2]

Up [Medium]
Left Right [Light] [Heavy]
Down [Exchange]

If they wanted to, the last two with no use can potentially be Tag Out buttons, but since I haven't seen anything like this in the VS's series, there's not much I can suggest. I hope you can find a way to make yourself comfortable with this way of Tagging Out.

#83
ChunLi said on June 17, 2010 at 5:42 p.m.

My makeshift Controller in this comment box was spread out in the preview, but got squished in the actual thing. -___-;;;

#84
snakeeater91 said on June 18, 2010 at 1:05 a.m.

Maybe Lvl.3 moves will act as a hidden move for every character? I hope because 2 ain't enough!

#85
ViolentDjango said on June 18, 2010 at 7:48 a.m.

@#84

I'm actually working on an in depth research paper/write up about the subject. Mostly about what sports are in general, the origin of sports, and why other avenues of competition may or may not classify by the real meaning of the word.

An interesting point: Very few sports are actually about physical being physically strong. Most of them place much more priority on form and proper technique, then on strategic use of those techniques. The idea of a "sport" has existed for hundreds of years, the idea of them being wholly physical originates from the fact when they emerged, that was the only way they could exist.

In modern times, you can look at sports such as football, American football, Rugby, and Archery -- there's a definite physical element, but the physicality of it isn't what defines the art, it's just the way it evolved. Archery isn't about being incredibly strong, it's about proper form: breathing, stance, focus, control. (I spent a lot of time researching all of that since I was an aspiring Olympic Archer). I've talked to football (soccer), football, baseball, and basketball players about it all, and a pretty standard agreement across most of them is that proper technique is more important than being physically powerful. In Rugby, I believe, there was actually a debate around whether or not the players were becoming too physically powerful, since the sport is about technique and strategy, and the excessive physical focus was resulting in an increase in injuries.

How is that relevant?

Well, in competitive gaming, for example, training muscle memory, developing proper posture, hand positioning, mastering subtle motion to improve reaction time -- These are all intense physical elements of the "Sport" of competitive gaming. The technique and skill required is very similar to that of archery in that it is localized to the hands and arms. Archery is renown for being a sport accessible by people of all ages and disabilities, because its localized primarily in posture and form of the torso and arms.

In gaming, if you regularly play hunched over or lounging backwards while practicing on an arcade stick, it throws off your positioning when you are placed in a tournament situation with rigid seating -- so maintaining good posture is essential to consistent high quality performance.

Another example of technique over physicality is in Poker. In poker, expert control over your body: breathing, perspiration, subtle eye and hand movements, is a necessary component of success. Training your control of your body and understanding how you respond to different chemical emotions is a huge part of Martial Arts, where telegraphing your intentions and thoughts can have largely detrimental effects on your performance and scoring during competition.

The question becomes less of "Are competitive gaming and poker sports?" and more of "What is the true definition of a sport?"

#86
ViolentDjango said on June 18, 2010 at 8 a.m.

"Most of them place much more priority on form and proper technique, then on strategic use of those techniques." I meant "Most of them place much more priority on form, proper technique, and strategic use of those techniques as opposed to physical power."

And I meant thousands of years, not hundreds.

#87
ChunLi said on June 18, 2010 at 5:46 p.m.

@91 ViolentDjango

Bravo! I needed more convincing to see Competitive Gaming in a "sports" light, and that definitely was a big push. Unlike alot of other people, I have an open mind to these touchy subjects, and I can accept new ideas, but if you tried explaining that to someone with a closed mind, you would get rejected in a second flat. Lol

But, really, that was golden, and I congratulate you on your effort.

#88
ViolentDjango said on June 19, 2010 at 7:30 a.m.

Yeah, it's definitely a stretch for people who aren't enthusiastic about gaming to understand, and there are other elements and beliefs that play into why people still view gaming negatively in the Western world -- most of it can be burned away with facts, but unfortunately in the West (US especially) popular belief tends to hold more weight than factual information.

People like to believe that hobbies like gaming lead to laziness and obesity -- essentially using them as a scapegoat for things that are much more involved culture than individual habits. (Ironically enough, gaming is huge in countries such as Korea and Japan, and yet they have less than a tenth of the problems the US has -- See: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea...; mind you, that information is 5 years old, but I've my doubts its reversed at all in that time.)

There are a lot of things that are just skewed misinterpretations and nonsense.

#89
SmokeRulz said on June 20, 2010 at 11:20 p.m.

THESE CONTROLS ARE SO AWESOME

HATERS GONNA HATE

I don't think they're complete, though. Characters will probably have a Level 3 Hyper by the time the game is finished. Perhaps epic cutscene style like TVC was. I'll be feeding off the delicious rage.

#90
DestinyZX1 said on January 21, 2011 at 11:05 a.m.

Sweet! This is what I'm gonna like.

#91


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