Update: The latest tier chart now has horizontal column highlighting to make it a little easier to look at the individual match ups.
Top tier Chun! Hell friggin' yeaaahhhh! I knew those Japanese would see how solid she truly is in this game. I'm so happy to finally see my main get the respect she deserves! =)
wait what?! Honda 2nd on the list? Happy that Zangief is lower on the tier list. Won't get many ppl bitching after you own them.
Bullsh** im a Chun user and shes definitley not the top of the top just BS
im not trolling because i use her btw, its just that as I've played fighting games over the years i dont like using top tier its just a thing Im stubborn over... I relish the challenge
@ Cascadian1106
I'm not sure why you're so happy considering online play is going to be flooded with chun-lis as of this evening.
Secondly, everytime you win from now on, scrubs will say you only won because you used a top-tier character...
(Same for me and my Bison - no idea why he's no.3. more like 7 or 8 IMO)
Played chun since vanilla and tbh this list is compleate trash imo. Chuns bad matches are still the same as her bad matches in sf4. her 7-4 match vs honda is just compleate bollocks if you ask me ever since super honda has been getting the best of me i honestly can see this list staying that same.
Some serious incongruity between American and Japanese opinions, it seems.
Honda and Bison at #2 and #3 is pretty ker-azy, but it seems like it's partially because they really tear apart a lot of the new cast (which not a lot of people use).
This list isn't final and I think a lot will change when the new characters has been fully discovered.
Guile is not top tier as I said once and he will never be in SSF4.Also ye I already knew that Blanka is not that strong in SSF4,but ppl online still complaining how lame Blanka is...
The tier list is based on figure totals and not how many bad matches a character has. Chun's previous bad matches are still the same at 4-6 (Viper, Akuma, Rufus and Blanka)but notice that she doesn't have a 3-7 like some other characters and a lot of 6's and a few 7's which is understandable. Originally, Chun had the 6-4 advantage over Blanka and the 4-6 disadvantage against Sagat. Apparently, those are now reversed. Chun's poking game and footsies are a lot better in Super than they were in Vanilla and those are all she needs really.
@Johnry - I don't care what people think about Chun now when I win with her. I've always played her even in Vanilla. Besides, I didn't get my 11k BP with her on PSN just because she's top tier. Hell, it takes skill to be good with her. She's not a Shoto (or Guile) who can throw fireballs all the time and spam DPs on wake up or do easy ultras with lots of damage like the retards Rufus and Abel.
#24
As a Chun Mainer, I know where your coming from, been using Chun since vanilla and it's interesting to see her blossom since then. I just kind of liked the underdog position of mid tier in the public eye. Usually if you fought a Chun Li player you almost always fought a good one.
Now im fighting tons of Chun Li's, many scrubby few gdlk and it's annoying. She is definantly harder to use and not a pick up and play character but it wont' stop nubs from trying to abuse her thanks to this tier list.
I don't care how they get the numbers I still say it's too early but whatever, im still gonna main Chun, but im gonna have to show no mercy to distinguish myself from the rest now.
All bow down to the first lady of Street Fighter.
@ 23
I agree - and I remember that name from Youtube. :P
I just don't see it, they didn't give him enough to jump from bottom to top just like that. It MIGHT be possible due to proxy of everyone else changing (Guile still has multiple bad matchups, I don't think Rose is in his favour either)...
I think these lists are playing more on theory fighter and less on tournament results - of course Guile will win out the realms of theory fighter - he's fundamentally broken in that sense where everything works perfectly.
I'm glad Ryu dropped so people can stop complaining when I use him. As for Chun being top idk about that. She's up there but I'm just not sure that she's number one.
Ibuki has a 6-4 advantage over vega?! I call BS...
I swear it's one of the worst matchups in the game.
though it's nice to see I wasn't crazy to think she isn't nearly as good as ppl think she is...
and to all those that said Ryu would be mid/low teir: STFU!
If u look a chun li being on top is because she has a great match up with almost every character that does not make here broken(I know some are thinking this) because people not everyone knows how to use chun-li right and use all her pokes. However, we will see a huge number of increased chun li players because of this and since chun is my main since old street fighter 4 she will be overused like ryu and about half or more supposed chun li players will suck. And if anything I think rufus should be up higher. And about the low tier characters well there really is not no surprise there because hakan sucks compared to Zangief and T. hawk, Makoto is mediocre compared to fei- long and guy and gen well lets just say there not that great... but I do like them.
*I main Dhalsim and Chun Li
I like how the new list has mostly 6-4 matchups, instead of the cop out 5-5.
People shouldn't focus on the total points and overall "rank" of characters, but rather their matchups. Honda is tied for 1st, but he has a ton of bad matchups against other top/frequently used characters. Honda owns lower tiers, but against the best of the best, he's less than stellar.
As for chun, I think the matchup ratings are pretty solid. I'm surprised to see the Blanka matchup move from 6-4 to 4-6, but Rufus, Viper and Akuma having 6-4 over Chun is still right. I don't think anyone else gives her much trouble.
I'm surprised Dhalsim is 7-3 vs. Guile. Anyone that saw the Sabin vs. Lamerboi match at EVO wouldn't think that match is nearly that unbalanced. Yes, Lamerboi lost to Henry Cen's Dhalsim the next round, but he made a lot of silly mistakes and was thrown off by a few randomish teleports. I'm not saying Guile has an advantage in the matchup, but 7-3 implies that matchup is practically free. Guile is never free...
great. i'm now up to playing 4 different characters (only up to 'B' grade), and they all suck ;)
(hakan, hawk, juri, gouken).
capcom, i beg you make me a character i enjoy as much as these losers who i can storm the charts with! well, only half-joking. you can still put the hurt on if you catch a favourable breeze. i did thoroughly enjoy beating a 14,000BP adon a few days ago...
curious to see who (if any) the possible new characters are -- maybe there's a 5th one for me in there somewhere :p
Damn I was hoping Guy would be a solid mid tier, like he was in Alpha 3, good against quite a few characters but with handful really bad match-ups. Instead he has some good match-up against lower ranked characters with a few 5-5s but he has 24 bad match-ups.
Then again he doesn't have the same options, speed, and sets-up in Super 4 that he had A3. Well, no point in complaining too much. Everyone can't be God Tier.
#39
Dhalsim can trade in his favor with sonic booms and neither of Guile's ultras are a threat to a character that can outzone him.
I also agree that Abel is a 3-7 matchup for Dhalsim, at best. I actually think it's worse, but this list seemed to avoid anything worse than 3-7.
Yeah, it's definitely all about the actual matchups. When I saw this tier list at first I was about to grab the flamethrower and don the troll costume, but now that I actually look at the numbers it makes more sense. The idea of Honda being god tier is repulsive to me considering how free he is to good zoning, but hey, look at the details, he's actually not that great until Dee Jay and below. The same goes for overpowered tier Cammy, look at all those 4s against the strongest characters, including what's essentially the most relevant matchup to 99% of players: Ryu. Also, while I think Rufus is better than that considering how safely he can apply pressure, remember that this is a Japanese tier list, and the Japanese have historically underestimated Rufus (just look at the arcade tier lists lower down the page).
And don't worry about the flood of Chun-Li scrubs. Sagat scrubs were bad because tiger spam was legitimately annoying to deal with, but a Chun scrub is just free points. Chun-Li requires intensive knowledge of her rather non-intuitive moves (I don't know any better way to explain it), can be jumped at much more easily, and has low stamina to boot.
Still, I think this tier list is unusually useless, sorry Catalyst. On the last one the order was pretty dang close to accurate, but this one is being severely thrown off by the sheer size of the cast. You've got characters who could never win a serious tournament having sky-high matchup totals, just because they can bully the lower half of the list.
Its kind of amazing that the Feb Tier List of Street Fighter IV on here showed Guile being the fourth worse character in the game....
Now in the new list, he is the fourth best character in the game lol.
and Cammy, Wooo.... kinda loving that she moved up in the ranks dramatically :).
And of course, Sakura still sucks like usual LMAO, but oh well lol.
This is a great Tier list, no one is overpowered. Awesome! Adon is advantage RYU I would have LOVED to see gamerbee vs daigo evo finals.
whaaa??? AKUMA is the THIRTEENTH best character in the game. lol.
@pwnopotamus #39
"I'm not saying Guile has an advantage in the matchup, but 7-3 implies that matchup is practically free"
To clarify: 10-0 is free, 9-1 is almost free, but 7-3 is only a MODERATE advantage.
The fact that someone at the tournament won despite of the match up doesn't mean that the tier list is incorrect...
Dont think Chun-Li should be top. Im more in favor of Guile being top but Chun-Li is up there.
My top 5 looks like this:
Guile
Balrog
Rufus
Honda
Abel or Akuma
Chun-Li is definitely top 10 but I just think there are better characters then her.
I play Cammy and I dont think she is that high either. She just has a hard time doing damage. She relies to much on tech and throw traps for damage. Also I'm a big advocater of C. Viper. I think she is top 10 and is really good. The burn kick nerf didnt affect her that much. Plus she has the biggest comback potential in the game because of how easy she can hit her Ultra and how much damage she gets of it. Problem is she just has really sh!ty match-ups, Honda, Rufus, and Bison are just horrible.
I gotta say. As a Makoto and a Chun Li player, I'm surprised. I knew Chun Li was good, but top tier? Damn. And As for Makoto, when I first began her, I got really pissed and even shouted. "SHE'S WORSE THAN DAN!" Granted, I didn't mean it, but now that I see that she is based on the match ups... holy crap. How is that possible? How do you mess up a character that much?
I thought Ryu had no bad match ups? Looks like he has several now.
************
Balrog should be gray, not green. This should be divided up logically, not just by 10's - See the older Tier list.
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Wow completely biased Tier ranking is the only explanation for this mess. I don't believe for one second that the chars that are high are *that* good & the chars that are low are *that* bad.
Like people keep saying wait at least a year for every single character to be dissected & discovered before posting any type of tier lists cause all this does is create bandwagons.
****************
See my #57 Post
The color coding is misleading
there is a bigger drop from 188 to 183 just since they are both 18x they shouldn't be the same color/tier.
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@tortoos
What #57 was pointing out was that Balrog should be in grey because only 2 points separate him from guile while five points separate him from Cammy. Not that Balrog is the best.
It is organized based on how "good" a character is. Notice the total for chun is 192 and not 23. She has 23 favorable matches but she has a sum of 192 against the cast. Bison for example has 24 favorable matches but is lower on the list than her.
I don't think Honda should be so high up. Yeah he hits like a truck but I don't feel like he has such a significant advantage over most of the cast. Personally though Ryu vs. Honda should be 4.5-5.5 in Ryu's favor. Also I'm dissapointed that Vega still has a lot of 4-6 match-ups in high level play.
@60
yea this tier list is terrible. The only placement i agree with is hakan and makato.
If Flash Metroid played Makoto at major tournaments like Evo then Makoto would be at least 3 spaces up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VAIBX...
I know for a fact that Dan can't perform like that
Why the option select ruins Street Fighter:
The whole risk reward thing is what makes this game exciting. The fact that someone has the balls to rush you down, score a knockdown and on wakeup continue his assault is a thing of beauty.
However...
The option select has taken the magic out of the game for me. Knowing that a scrubby Ryu player who learned how to option select, can buffer three different moves with one input and allow the computer to decide which is the right one and execute it for him, is disghusting.
It makes me very sad to know that the players who honestly try to tech throws and counter moves on reaction are losing to the scrubs who have added option select to their mediocre gameplan is very sad.
I dont ooh and aaaah...I watched eveo and instead of being impressed with timely techs and amazing reversals...i was bored.
Its like when you find out there is no santa clause. The gifts dont give you that amazing "wow" feeling. You now how the gift got there.
The simple fact that the computer decides your best alternative based on a universal input is very disappointing to me. I was extremely excited about the matches I have won and so forth in my ten of thousands of sets...but now Im not as interested as I once was because I know my opponents are not "out thinking me", "outplaying me" or "out executing me"...instead they are just inputting dynamic commands that cover all those bases for them. So I must play footsies for 99 seconds or traverse from a thinking mans character like Guile over to a more pedestrian Akuma or Ryu gameplay style.
It really is becoming more and more of a let down as time passes. Option selecting was cool to learn and helped me defeat the faggishly annoying tick throw games that EVERYONE uses. But when I get back to the boxing aspect that Ono promised would be truly represented in the SF4 series gameplay, i am dissapointed. My wins mean less because I know I am teching throws automatically...and my losses mean less because I know i wasnt out played i was just auto corrected out of my victory.
Is there any way to move away from this petty play system to something that resembles tru thinking and fighting?
The total score doesn't tell the full story.
Seth has the least amount of bad matchups according to this chart, and he's sitting under characters with 2 to 3 times as many bad matchups. Seth is theoretically the 'best' character in the game, but he sits in the middle of the tier list because he goes even with the bulk of the cast.
Now look at Honda. He sits at second place because he goes 7-3 against a bunch of characters that nobody plays competitively.
This is why tier lists are deceiving.
U people don't get it this list is based on using the characters to there fullest I'm sure more than half of don't use these characters to there full potential what people upset ryu sagat n akuma aren't there lol. I'm sure the new characters they add will also have a update to lvl the playing field but this is the most balanced sf ever so stop complaining like lol girls it just a tier list nothing more
@71 dude gief n guile own makoto lol so yes 3-7 I would say 2-8 lol
@68 I feel your pain dude can't stand when I'm doing a combo n I mess up one part n bam a dragon punch n then I look back at the imput data on them n u see they just spam the motion till there's a break in your combo Wich is really gay when u spam the motion it should just cancel any move your trying to do
@68
option select tech kills ALOT of offensive options in the game. Add to that the whole dp fadc bs and now scoreing a knock down on ryu or sagat is risker for u. But its to late, people needed bitch about it from day 1, and i dont mean people on the forums, we need bigger names. Theres a real reason why theres still people that refuse to make the jump from st to 4.
What is this madness about Ryu having disadvantage against Bison? Rose(LOL)? Balrog? Fei Long(LOL)? Abel????! Adon(LOLOL)?!?
Only one that actually makes sense is vs SIM...but even that is not a hard 4-6.
This is wacked...looks like they deliberately want to make Ryu worst than it actually is.
Guy doesn't give a muthadamn about tiers. I think everybody simply sucks with Guy and doesn't invest time. Most Guy's I've seen just do random things in hopes of hitting you.
wow what a big BS
cammy, guile and fei long are bad match ups for ryu!? really!?
also
chun is 6-4 against sagat, he only got nerfed on his damage(wich is still high, not as before, but high), and she got buffed only on d/f+ lk, she also got nerfed on hazanshu and Ex Legs damage.
Cammy is a bad match up for seth too? how the fu*k is that, she cant even get close to him.
thats are so many things wrong but w/e!
@ 83
As a Guile mainer, I'm not really too surprised about Ryu - however Cammy and Fei Long seems like a joke. I know Fei Long has the tools to get in on him - but this isn't theory fighter, things aren't so perfect and black & white.
Tier list shows overall match up strengths vs EVERYBODY. Not necessarily who's the best.
The actual placing or number doesn't matter. It's more about the individual matchups. Cammy's not that great despite her 6th place ranking. The total numbers are misleading. She's 4-6 against everyone above her and Ryu, but her numbers add up once you go further right.
I say the game's pretty balanced. Take out the F tiers, Makato, Hakan, and Dan, and you have 47 points separating 32 characters, extremely small considering the large cast.
As far as a more useful tier list, I would like to see one that incorporates the percentage of users at tournaments, online, etc. It would take into account and give the Chun/Honda "7-3" match up more weight than the Chun/THawk. The former, being much more likely to occur and a better indicator of overall character strength.
Yeah capcom as usual Gen is a low tier character because this character gotta few fans but guile when he was a normal character a lot of guile and bison players were crying to make him one of the top tier characters …. Why capcom why cuz we are a few fans of Gen !! by the way Gen is hard to play with less health than other character is that fear!!
i call shenanigans but hey i'm still going to use elf nd bring on the chuns i'm a wear my swimming gear and splash em all to death hey tier lists are different on every website so it don't matter to me.
I dont see why some people bitch (cough)93..... Just because the character is low doesnt mean he isnt viable, he just has slight disadvantages fighting with certain characters. Its not like Gen has 14 match ups 3-7 or worst, most are 4-6 which isnt that bad, most of the time the better player would come out on that, and he also has some 5-5 and a few 6-4.
Makoto has some of the wosrt match ups mostly with the top tier and its not really a big problem to deal with them once u learn how to talk them.
"I'm glad Ryu dropped so people can stop complaining when I use him."
People still complain as you can see from the posts. People refuse to believe that he's not top tier any more because they've been so thoroughly abused by him in SF4. But the fact still remains he is not as strong as he was. Ryu mainers know.
It also doesn't help that the world champ is a Ryu player so people automatically assume he's top tier.
SSF4 tier list is highly suspecious...
Charge Characters top tiers? bullsh!t
Guile is bad matchup with Abel (esp Ultra 2), almost every round end with a U. 4:6 is definately is impossible, more like 1:9
Versatile character like Ryu is impossible to be middle tier, plus advantages of buffet FADC.
I wasn't impressed with that tier list myself. Partly because some of the characters up near the top puzzled me as to how they got there ( especially Chun Li. Good and up there, yes but most certainty not god tier ) and partly because my own main ( Juri ) was near the bottom of the list! ( not that I don't agree with everything it saids, Honda is indeed a pain the ass to beat as Juri. )
I'm not about to change my main though just because they are near the bottom of a tier list. Besides, as we've all learned from Evo, in the right hands, ANY character will be able to wipe the floor.
I have being beaten by Hakans and Makotos and even Dans plenty of times. So the tier list is just a general guide, its not set in stone.
all u peeps that say ryu doesnt have a disadvantage against cammy fei long abel bison guile and balrog the only questionable ones out of those i see are
balrog that 2 me is a 5-5 match up
cammy & fei long can get around his fireballs
bison if he has U2 up ryu can not trhow out fireballs or he is gonna get punished
guile builds meter faster than ryu and can keep up in a fireball fight with all shotos
abel i have no idea how thast in his favor unless he is living off his roll
but the funny part is when they put bison up there because of his ultra they forgot to put up vega also because his U2 can punish fireballs
but everyone knows after sabin vs diago money match and after mochi vs diago sim is hands down ruys worst match up
i think we all are in agreement that the top 5 charaters in this game is wrong and most will all agree that (boxer) balrog
should of been at the #1 spot as he didnt get touched and was only nerfed on ultra damage
@103 - I don't agree with you so that's not all of us. Remember that the tier list is based on figure totals and not who gets to beat everyone else. I do think that Honda's and Bison's rankings are questionable. Chun's pretty solid since Vanilla. Top mid tier to be exact. It just makes sense that the buffs she got amped her game even further.
Ok, im just gonna clarify, this is a psuedo tier list. -_- Let's all just be honest, the top 5 atleast should be, M. Bison #1 duuuuuuhhhhh, and i don't even like him. Second, Balrog didn't even effing change -_- #2, then Sagat you'll all be lying if you disagree. Sagat's zoning tactics are still indubatbly the BEST, utter denial if you disagree. He's top 5 even with the nerfs, yep, yeh, i said it, it's effing true deal with it. #4 is ofcourse the poster boy, answer for every situation, not thing like others, ex.. fei can't ex tastu to escape hakans ultra, ryu has a facile moveset as well, clearly #4 deal with it. #5 is either akuma or rufus, this is how the list should be, and probably be after the japanese stop squinting thier eyes, and actually open them.
What I don't understand is that Sagat is that low. Same with Rufus and Ryu. Sagat is still insanely good. It just means he has to kill you in eight moves instead of four lol. No way does Sagat have a disadvantage to Chun Li. In my opinion he is still the best. Also I main Bison and I have to say, just cos he has a new ultra to deal with Shotos, doesn't mean that he is better than them. Just limits the amount they can throw out fireballs. Ryu is still better. Ryu only has one bad match up and that's Dhalsim.
Honestly:
"Option selecting should be removed all together. Imagine playing chess and the possible moves you could choose would be predetermined by the piece you chose and that piece executed the highest percentage move on its own."
The game would become boring to those who knew the magic behind the game.
Thats how Im starting to feel. There is no reason for universal inputs...people need to go out on a limb and risk something! Maybe it will work out, maybe it wont....but damn it will be exciting again.
smh @ tick throws and option selects...cus thats all these scrubs do. Noone boxes as Ono promised. There is no boxing emulation. Its more of button mashing and controller wrecking. Boxing requires risk. You must release your guard to attack, or surrender advantage to guard. Option selecting nullifies that.
I still feel like im playing a game worth my time, simply cus I use Guile. At least his inputs require precision. Yet and still...option selecting is really killing the excitement and the "ooh ahhh factor" simply beacuse there is no risk factor. Its simply random.
To be literal, its as if the SF fanbase would press 1 button only if that 1 button got them a win. How in the hell is that fun? Wheres the "GAME"?
Worst strategies in SF4: Seth backward jump spam, ken kara throw game for 99 seconds, ryu "bait a jump in" option select on wake up game, akuma "sit n poke" vortex for 99 seconds bs, Abel "1 frame recovery roll fest" and 0 frame grab priority, Cody "safe move everything" and take major damage from an insanely easy combo game and lastly...the worst strategy in SSF4...
Rose..."I have 40 safe moves and all of the leave me at frame advantage" turtle fest.
smh this is what the games becoming. SF5 better be more complex than this pedestrian repetitive crap.
@111
honestly some of the stuff he is talkin about makes sense. THe option select really does take away alot of the offensive game. If u actually had to stand to tech like in other games high low mixups would be still worth doin. ANd the fadc system makes mashing srks safe(never mind people do it regardless they have the meter or not). I have fought people that are actually good at the game and they abuse this, u might get them to whif once or twice but now what they have done is slowed down ur offensive game since now instead of just goin for it u have to stop to bait the dp and thats where they have an opening(never mind that there prob mashing the crouch tech during the hit string). This game leans too much in the defenders favor and it does take away from the excitment. U tell me what more fun, a back and fourth game of mix ups and mind games or siting on opposite sides of the screen doin nothing for 99 seconds.
@Mr.Wing
Your complaints and his complaints are very different. BTW you can punish crouch teching ( at least makoto can). And well all in all you are kinda right the game does reward defensive play, but it can also reward aggressive play but still favors more to defense. And about fadc after srk well.... its debatable, fadc can about make any move safe but its not a totaly unfair advantage since you can do it with out meter.
I don't think anybody can say they have it easy against Chun-Li, especially not charge characters. And yes, Honda is higher but only because the non-competitively played characters don't put up too much fight. However his hard match-ups (like Chun) aren't easier and some (Guile) are much higher.
He is once again king of the charge, which is what he always was before.
And yes, I always played Honda and I hate that people will see me as a tier whore now. That's why I'm also picking Hakan and Rose, what can I say, I like to be the underdog.
@ChickenWings
You understand the adult meaning of what Im saying. You are not caught in your feelings trying to defend it like a child would. Instead you engage the meaning of what Im saying, so I will respond to you.
I dont really have trouble dealing with SF4's gameplay antics...tick throws, and option selects. I mean you simply tale the option select away from your opponent after a knockdown by taking yourself out of range.
But that ruins the fun for me. I want to "scrap"...mix it up and fight. I dont care about taking damage if I know that my risk will pay off.
I love the risk vs reward factor of in game fighting. It seems that to play this version of the game properly you have to abandon the willingness to risk.
That makes it a tad bit of a yawnfest for me. Yesterday I stayed outside of sweep range of a ryu for 99 seconds and all he did was duck up and down buffering hadoukens and Dragon punches waiting for me to jump in.
He didnt risk anything at all...no competitive spirit. But if you ask him.."he is playing ryu properly". So now I have to ask the community.
If playing the game properly means standing still and doing nothing for 99 seconds hoping for a poke to ultra (built into ryu and a few others, guile not so much)is all you want to do....is that fun? Really?
Ono you promised a boxing emulation, there is no boxing in SF4 at a high level gameplay platuea. There are only feigning and waiting games. Lets make a game where people have to react properly, know what their options are, choose the right one, and stand by that decision. The winner in the end...deserves to win.
Heres to a new fighting system come SF5.
@114
SF2 did not have 'just defense' option selects, which are what people are talking about when they complain about option selects in SF4. Being able to option select while you're safely blocking is the problem and you couldn't do that in SF2 because it didn't have 'just defense'.
Interesting.