Seth Killian and Christian Svensson took a few Super Street Fighter 4 Arcade Edition questions recently on the Unity Boards, discussing the nerf to Cammy's Cannon Strike (Dive Kick) and the June rumored release date for DLC.
Cammy sucks in SSF4 Arcade Edition. She's worthless, the worst character in the game.
Seth Killian: I suggest you give it a little more time before you pass judgment on Cammy in Arcade Edition.
Yes, she lost Tiger Knee Cannon Strike (kinda), but the impact is somewhat severely overstated here. She can still Cannon Spike quite low to the ground, although she can't do it *instantly* with the "tiger knee" motion.
That was one of the strongest techniques in the game, and allowed all manner of very powerful tricks in SSFIV (for instance, while most people had to guess a bit in order to try and counter a throw, Cammy could use it to not only avoid throws, but also regain offensive momentum or even land a large combo, which is kind of a big reward for a safe technique you can apply while being put on the defensive).
The funny part is that she can STILL do that, you just have to spend the 1 bar to use an EX Cannon Strike. Considering that Cammy doesn't use meter for a whole lot else, 1 bar of EX meter is hardly a high price to pay for what remains one of the strongest techniques in the game.
Character strength is also less about individual tweaks than it is about how those affect overall matchups and viability.
If it keeps you hopeful, Sako (perhaps the strongest Cammy player in the world), he finds Cammy to be essentially the same. When I was watching his recent SSFIV tournament showdown with Haneyama (expert Chun-Li), if I remember correctly, Sako didn't do anything for the entire match that you can't still do in AE.
Like everyone in AE, she has changes, and she will have some tough matches, but all the talk about "worthless" and "worst character in the game" seems way, way off the mark. Give it a little time...
I heard a rumor that SSF4 AE will have a DLC release in June. Is that true or is the company planning to do something about it earlier? — 99651048.
Svensson: Sorry mate. I've got nothing "official" to contribute on the topic of Super Street Fighter 4 Arcade Edition. Officially, the content has only been announced for arcade. Anything beyond that, as you've pointed out, is rumors and speculation.
Hate giving those answers but that's all I can say.
dlc in june ? is it for mvc3 that will be cool if it was XD
I still don't understand why they nerfed her tiger knee cannon strike. If that is their logic shouldn't they nerf Rufus's dive kick, which is much much easier to do low to the ground but, still getting enough height where some kicks and jabs do not hit. While Cammy has to focus more on timing her Cannon Spike, since you'll almost always get hit out of it if it's to low. Rufus can also Neutral jump dive kick where as Cammy has to burn a meter to do so and she has much harder links to do and the fact that you have to know the every character match up for Cammy makes it much harder, as only certain combos can be done certain characters but, the list is much larger.
Yes it is strange that they decided to take it out but I think they may have done it because at high level, like Sako level, it is a devastating move which can then be comboed from. BUT - so what? If your good enough to be able the use it as a combo starter and then get all her links right, man you deserve the damage you do. I sure as hell can't use it to combo off, just presurise. Cammy seems like a character who has so little to work with overall, don't understand why they changed it. It's great that she can still do the ex version. That would have been criminal to take that out. Like i said, i think they took it out cos in god hands she was maybe too godly. But for us mortals..she's still hard work. But I'll still use her. Her normals got buffed tho, so yay.
-Is AE coming in June?"
"Yes it is coming out in June 11, 2011!!! Please dont bother playing AE until then as there are more characters and features coming!"
WAS THAT THE ANSWER HE WAS LOOKING FOR!!!???
Of course they are not gonna give an answer! DUH!!!!
Wow nice answer from Seth Kilian about Cammy!They did a good job on Cammy,and he is right,this move in SSFIV is overpowered and it is logic Cammy players have to use EX to use a such powerful move.And yes,Cammy doesn't need so much EX so she will be fine.
yeh, if they take THAT long to get the dlc out, they better have more characters or stages. thats a stupid amount of time to wait for the twins and blancing changes, thats not justified unless its super cheap. And its bull that it has to take that long, they could release it in 2 months easy if they wanted.
IwantSausages, wait what games have you worked on? oh probably none? dude the thing is it isn't just balance tweaks
They have to make sure that it works with the consoles code(the code of a game differs alittle on each console even PC to ps3 or actual Arcade to 360 arcade) make sure the animations and sounds for the characters work out right on console especially for those who don't buy the character(unless they offer them for free, which is possible). Add new titles for the people who go through arcade and training mode with them(Since Arcade doesn't have all the same titles) get English VAs, make other colors for them. They also might be taking the wait and see approach on both AE to see if they want to tweak anything on the twins or the other 35 characters.
THEN they have to figure out how to get them on to your console(weather they're going to use the marketplace/store option, put them on your hard drive through a patch? both?).
It's alot more than just 2 months time for all that to make sure it works right
Killian explain it right (and no, it's not only because of meter gain - which helps tho): Cammy can put incredible pressure with her TKCS, not only eluding (and possibly exploiting at her advantage) crouch teching, but also leading to huge damage and stun off it.
She still has it, just say bye to the mindlessly spam of TKCS, now you ought to manage your meter.
Besides, she has even more dangerous combos. She'll do just fine.
I really don't get what he means with "quite low to the ground" as you can do it only almost on top her jump... Sako did a lot of strikes that are not possible now.
Furthermore, ex bar was used for FADC dp, FADC drill and super. So the superbar was used in ssf4.
It would have been nice to actually buff one of her specials instead of nerfing strike/spike/arrow while her remaining 2 specials are only used as a suprise...
It is utterly beyond me how anyone can defend TK CS as anything other than completely broken, worse still how Capcom left it in the game in the first place. Did they not realise people can effectively nullify most of the startup/recovery of the move with a particular input motion!? Is the concept of tiger-kneeing inputs a new concept to them??
It breaks pretty much every rule of how a special move should behave, you could say it is the 'perfect' move. It combos into ITSELF multiple times ffs. It's like Ryu's FADC'd DP but without any meter usage. Total nonsense.
I think Cammy players would not have complained if you could really strike "quite low to the ground".
But the height restriction is like around Ryu's head when he is standing. I would not consider this as quite low to the ground... Given the slight pause when striking, this move has become so useless as it is so easy to dp.
@25
Thanks for a GREAT laugh.
Now, I guess I'll have to explain whats so funny.
"Did they not realise people can effectively nullify most of the startup/recovery of the move with a particular input motion!?"
This statement is pure nonsense. CStrike has 12 frame startup, and you cannot make it any faster, no matter what motion you use, and if you want to do it from the ground it will be 17 frames.
"It combos into ITSELF multiple times ffs."
No it doesn't. Only EX version does, the damage is poor and there are characters having non EX moves that loop (HHS, Sakura's Tatsu, Hyakuretsu Kyaku).
"It is utterly beyond me how anyone can defend TK CS as anything other than completely broken"
Yeah, right, then why Rufus still has his superior divekick? And we also have Yun/Yang.
Anyway, I'm outta here, I'll just going to remind people who have no understanding of this game that Cammy's Spiral Arrow nerf is far, FAR worse than her CStrike nerf.
TKCS doesn't build meter quickly. Doing repeated LP sbfs or LP (cancelled) hooligans builds it quicker (though with less safety).
Anyone who agrees with these nerfs should try opening a turtle with her. Seriously, hold down-back and win. She can't chip you, use an overhead, throw you except at point-blank range, or give you any reason to open up once you have a life-lead.
my god ya need to stop whining about tkcs seriously! its gone,it ain't coming back, get over it! no point in saying "oh she needed it she nothing without it blah blah *add nauseum*" instead of whining if any of u would do some research on her buffed normals u'd realize that she can combo light atks into her sweep now.
she is essentially the same minus free meter. now u gotta play footsies and work ur way in for ur meter instead of spamming tkcs til ur opponent comes to u.plus she still has it!!!just pay the 1 meter and stfu already! or drop her and jump on the inevitable yun bandwagon like every1 else.
Super Scrub Fighter 4:Cry Baby Nerf Edition
This will be released around early to mid June. If you pay extra we will also throw in the Limited Edition 'Ryu Dildo' for the special fans out there.
All these nerfs are stealing the HYPE away from MvC3 and MK. I Can't wait.
As a Cammy mainer It's going to be interesting to see how she plays in AE because without TKCS it's going to be exponentially easier for opponents to down back and crouch tech all day long, since Cammy has no overhead. Just gotta improve my frametraps and I hope the improved normals can contribute to that.
If you guys can't win w/o TK Cannon Strike then you probably aren't that pro to begin.
Its a cheap tactic to build meter since you're defensive and offensive at the same time. Learn some combos because she's got plenty. This is completely different than idiots constantly crying wolf over Dictator's st. HK.
Cammys fine all of you saying TKCS was op are idiots. Their was nothing special about the meter build, if remember correctly she needs to do 20-30 TKCS to gain one bar.
TKCS dosent mater all that much anymore. All of you saying TKCS was op will still cry about her DK mix ups cus thats still their and thats the important part of her game. And if your just sitting their mashing throw I can still use EX CS to catch them only thing is I'm going to get a beefier combo of it.
To summarize, TKCS wasnt op and all of you saying it was will still get bodied by Cammy because you suck not because she has a TKCS, only thing now is you will get styled on even more.
I know you Event Scrubs don't know squat, but I still feel compelled to point out that Seth is flat out lying. AE Cammy could absolutely not have done what Sako did in the match against Haneyama, as Cammy didn't just have TKCS removed, she had her entire dive kick removed and replaced with a jump in that doesn't even hit overhead. And that is the truth. Have fun kids.
I could careless cammy but anyway folks remember mvc3 is coming out so why would they announce dlc for ssfiv ae when they want to rack in $$$$$ with mvc3 first. I'm sure dlc will drop eventually too much $$$ to make for em not to do it. As much as eveyone says they not buying it if it has no new characters,stages etc your lying you will.
Cammy is still the same except you need to think about how to manage your resource before you spam that cheap trick like an idiot. It is way better than the dive kick rufus has, it is safe on block, has insane hit stun and does better damage, so you can confirm and link into combos that does about 30~35% damage, 40% on a low health character without using any resources! And then it opens up another attack chance which if the opponent guess wrong he gets stun and is likely gonna lose that round. That's a lot of return in order for a simple special move like that if you as me. Oh yeah those combos are hard to pull off, I heard plinking is hard in SSFIV too.
I hope dlc actually never comes to us because they screwd up everyone except high tiers really. An i can already imagine the million more ken and ryus and shin akumas there we will be online. I do want to play as yun and yang but that can wait for third strike online!
they didn't screw up anybody. all they did is make ALL chars have to work for their wins from beginning to end.bisons can't spam lk scissors, guiles can no longer sit back and spam booms forever,ryus have to be more precise with their low fowards,seths can't spam jb/nj.fierce...and so on. excessively abused tactics are gone,time to stop playing on auto pilot and start actually using ur brains.
Why wait so long to MAYBE release the DLC, if they don't release it, everybody loses. If they release it: Fans are happy, CAPCOM made money and reputation.... But, WHY wait till summer? They probably wanna wait until the MvC3 hype has died out then release it... But damn you better release it CAPCOM! You've already disappointed RE fans, don't disappoint SF fans too!
it makes absolutely no sense for Cammy to lose her instant dive kick while Rufus gets to keep his...
builds meter to quickly? That could be easily changed without getting rid of it...
The move is overpowered...but if you're change something, at least be consistent...
Obviously this will come out on consoles. It should on PC too since its already 99% done for PC.
Cammy never really had a good time with turtles to begin with. I don't think TKCS made it that much easier for her to deal with them, esp if they aren't even crouch teching. But of course there's always some way to get in on them without relying on random TKCS. Right?
No TKCS means Sako combo has one less hit but everything else should connect just fine, and apparently on more characters too (http://iplaywinner.com/news/2010/12/1...)
I'm more disappointed with SA getting less of a chance to get 2 hits. Or is it no chance unless really close? Correct me if I'm wrong, people.
Anyway I main her and I plan to keep her as my main just cuz she's fk'in hot. That's the reason I picked her anyway. I'm gonna try out AE today and see how it feels.
From what I've been reading AE is forcing people to work for their wins. I can't wait.
And I just found out you can't FADC SA. Really? -_______-
All you guys are a bunch of cry babies. Try playing Gouken against Cammy one or the worst matchups in the game. I have played him since vanilla and he hasnt got any love till now and still not enough. I havent played AE yet but I feel the buffs are great just he needs armor for his ex running palm I dont care if it even hits. Every character in the game has a safe move against him and it seems like his frames for passing through hado yoga sonic is getting smaller for a character that dont have a DRp CANsp TGRu dont think i have found a special that dont knock him out of it. Balrog has higher placement and he has armor!!!!! and his damage out put is the same..... just think he should have one safe move in his tactics and the extasu is not it leaves you open for a long time, Heck lets just say canon spiral vs ex tasu both miss she could taunt/fart ect. walk over and still wait for him to come down. You guys need to play a person that you really work for a win..... U4iA27 said it in a nut shell
All you guys are crybabies, now let me proceed in crying about my own character that already got some nice buffs in AE.
O_O
so yun and yang are the only new characters in ae?
LAME!
I agree with one line that Goukin above me said. Basically, to those of you who can't stand that Cammy lost her instant cannon strike, you really haven't tried maining one of the lower tier characters and fighting against her. Even at the pro level I've seen my main, Guy, get crushed by Cammy. I've personally watched Combofiend get completely wrecked by Justin's Cammy. He has no good answer to instant cannon strike pressure on wakeup. With the right timing it stuffs out his reversal completely. He can only block and try to not get mixed up. And in case anyone says it, a good answer would not be "just don't get knocked down" because that's incredibly unrealistic. I really hope it's true in general that more people have to work harder for their wins. I encourage people to try out a lower tier to better understand the Cammy nerfs!
Capcom are full if s**t! they nerf average characters that have maybe one or two good moves, yet leave highly over powerful characters alone and just cut a bit of damage of and think it makes the game "fair" do they even play their own games? El Fuerte is getting is Ultra2 nerfed cause "it takes to much damage" yet Zangief's takes the same? The game is so badly made cause Capcom don't know how to say No to all the scrub cry babies that mail in about how they lost cause of one move they didn't know how to block.
@Bunshinryu plz stop your whining about low tiers against cammy and stop overrating her your discrediting justin skills. Cammy was a true test of your defense you should know what heights that you can reversal tkcs if your ok acking in defense its not fai
r to blame guy for losing to cammy whenever
@Bunshinryu plz stop your whining about low tiers against cammy and stop overrating her your discrediting justin skills. Cammy was a true test of your defense should know what heights that you can reversal tkcs its your lack of understanding of cammy plus you cant use the new characters as a valid argument because they havent been completly figured out yet like sf4 and you discredit the characters
btw, the post that Seth was responding to wasn't linked to, it is here: http://www.capcom-unity.com/ask_capco...
@ #6 Mr. Clack- LOL, I agree. Like Capcom would really tell us about AE being released on consoles so quickly after its release in the arcades. Especially considering what they are charging to play the game. From what I have heard, anywhere from .75 cents to a dollar per play? Yikes....LOL.
But I personally dont think it would make a difference if they announced it or not. If Capcom were a city ....... It would be the troll capitol of the world LOL.
Quoting James Chen: "the only way I was getting wins with Cammy that night was people were attacking me because they were trying to have fun or they were scared of me up close for no reason and hitting buttons. But if I played against someone who literally did nothing, just Blocked, there was nothing I could do. I could frame trap and push buttons all day long and if they blocked, they had nothing to be afraid of."
QED, GTFO.
@#56:
It's funny. I actually started playing gouken and got good with him. I am also surprised I'm winning most of time whenever I pick him. Anyway, as far as an answer to cammy's dive kicks, gouken has his counter to wake up with since her kicks don't break armor. Of course if she empty jumps then you're gonna get thrown.
The thing I wanted Capcom to change is to trade his armor (from the demon flip) for the fist. Basically like Akuma's flip. Yea they gave him less recovery on that move but it's still not a good tool to get in. Any dp with more than one hit can break through.
As a Cammy player, may I be the first to say STOP THE MOANING.
Cammy may have lost her normal TK strikes, but has gained MUCH BETTER NORMALS among others. If your moaning over losing them, maybe you should play someone more suited to your style of play?
And let's be perfectly honest. You can nerf the character to hell and back, but to stop them from being top tier, you have to nerf the players. I'm sticking with Cammy, regardless.
Yup seth killian explained perfectly why TK cannonstrikes were nerfed and u pussies are still whining about it.Its safe pressure, blows up crouch techs and grabs, builds meter and has lots of hit stun compared to other divekicks. And all of u who say: why not nerf rufus' dive kick? It's because cammys combos takes way more damage and she can start her divekick/crossup 50/50s again while rufus pushes back his opponents.
"It is way better than the dive kick rufus has, it is safe on block, has insane hit stun and does better damage, so you can confirm and link into combos that does about 30~35% damage, 40% on a low health character without using any resources! And then it opens up another attack chance which if the opponent guess wrong he gets stun and is likely gonna lose."
You obviously dont know what you are talking about. Rufus does all that and with just a down forward medium kick input.
its not unfair, for all i know the move was quite cheap and has no risk, which is unfair to the rest of the character. Rufus dive kick is not constant pressure if you know what to do. But her normals was made much better.and we all know that footsie is very important. My ryu was nerfed wasn't so good but do you see me complaining. You just have to 're-learn' cammy.
@58 - sorry dude but ur not making any sense.u can't even compare those 2 ultras cuz El fuertes U2 was and still is WAAAAY easier to land compared to either or giefs ultras for it to be doing that kind of damage which is y it got nerfed.I mean come on a 3f (I think) moving low grab? just stop.
and for those comparing rufus divekick to cammys just no...no.rufus can be thrown upon landing if he's off by even half a second on his combos since the hitstun on his is a joke compared to cammys.plus on balrog rufus dk flat out whiffs below his knees.rufus already got hit with the nerf stick on ex messiah and U2 stop comparing the 2.
Gotta laugh at the guy saying Guy has to block on wakeup against cammy. You do know that blocking is actually a valid tactic, and that you don't need to mash sh*t out every f*cking wakeup right?
Also, the reason why we cammy players whine, isn't just that tkcs is removed, I could live with that. But what Seth says about it still being possible to dive kick fairly low to the ground is just nonsense. You can hardly combo into jabs with the new CS. Also, they nerfed both spiral arrow and cannon spike aswell. How many special moves did they nerf on your main character? was it all of them? no, then shut the f*ck up
1. S-kill is ass in everything he plays dont know how he was pre-capcom employee but he is free imo and on top of that he is a lackey with no power he is just a capcom representative and at the end of the day he is worried bout a check flatout
2. for those people who dont use cammy and call her braindead.. how often do you see cammys online, give me one braindead link with her... and when did her tkcs become as good as a rufus divekick(cuase its not)yall are on here flaming cause you dont understand the way that hurt her playstyle, same as seth hp nerf and abels roll nerf. But then in the next breath they make yun/yang and they are god like and dont forget Rog really didnt get the sufficient nerf he deserve. If you cant handle up close pressure then go play call of duty
3. Finally Cammy really has a large amount of bad match ups due to the fact that mashing is sooo good in the game and also that there are no penalties for pressing buttons during block(a SF series first and i hope last) and what she is getting in place for the nerf is ass..... why couldnt we get a CS out of a hooligan like CvS2 it woulndt have made her broken and dont sit here and tell me to normal all day cuase her normals are ass. Please do your homework before you post please
guise its cannon strike btw i noticed alot of people(not saiyajin all) get that mixed up with spike
@76 - guile...nuff said.less dmg on backfist,U2,gimped meter gain on sb,and a dmg nerf period. a lot of u cammy players are exaggerating. especially any1 who says her normals are ass NOW(#77).she can combo into sweep from her jabs,cr.jab,cr.fierce, sweep works plus a few others I saw.do some research. Again tkcs is gon,either get over it and learn to live with it or drop her like the rest of the scrubs.
@80 am I sitting it out cuzz you have an intelligent response to my post or cuzz u wanted some forum attention like a lil girl
@ChuckPlazma
Not saying Cammy is braindead but c.lk > c.lp > c.lk > HK Arrow is a braindead link straight up. TKCS was pretty ridiculous for pressure it's not even deniable.
My only problem with this is that (as someone mentioned) Rufus can still do very low dive kicks with a pressure and mixup game just as lethal. What's even worse is that Rufus is way safer, has much more life and deals more damage. It's complete CONTRADICTION. Anyways, she can still do TK EXCS so it's not like she can't do it at all. Only it'll at least cost meter to use
Here is what alot of you dont get, the tkcs nerf changes her play style a good amount. Her pressure is gone and thats really big. She is now similar to and Akuma in that she has to live for the knockdown.
Before people start saying oh you Cammy players should stop complaining realize that she has to play differently now, people play her for her rushdown style not because she is top tier.
Anyways she is gonna be fine in AE, and is still gonna reck alot of you because your problem is that you guys dont know how to play against Cammy not that she has a TKCS. She still has her damage, her dk mix ups, plus ex cs is still gonna reck all of you mashers. Hopefully Capcom stops listening to all you scrubs before every character in the game becomes shotos.
@79 Cammys normals arent good. Their either to slow or have bad range to play footsies. All capcom did is buff frame advantage on them so you can do crazy combos now.
@82 I'm not denying that it was good but it wasn't broken at all... It could easily be focused countered and also she's a rushdown character she's suppose to be a prob on the inside same as any other rushdown character, other than CS what is she really.. And as far as bar all rush down characters need bar to open people up plus one of her current BnB needs at least 1 bar
to sum up every comment from 90% of the cammy players that have commented here, "oh cammy needed tkcs,she's ass w/o it she has nothing...rufus divekick y no nerf but nerf tkcs, her normals are ass cuz I've wasted all my time relying on tkcs to learn how to ACTUALLY use her.waah waah I'm dropping her to play yun cuz I'm a scrub and can't play w/o auto pilot crutches" 1 more time TKCS IS STILL IN THE GAME!!! pay the 1 measly bar and stfu or drop her.stop making her sound like she's hakan or thawk w/o it.
You don't get it. Seth Killian is wrong! He is talking about a lock test, not the final release. In the final arcade edition cammy didn't only loose her TKCS (which is something understandable) but she lost low-height CS!. Now she plays like Cody.
Also, whoever said Cammy's divekick are better than Rufus... Seriously, wtf? Cammy's combos are easier than Rufus (no 1 frame link bnb), she has a meterless reversal and better walkspeed but his divekicks are 100 times better!
Rufus can:
Low dive Kick>Target Combo>Ultra 1
Cammy has to spend meter to combo a dive kick into Ultra.
Rufus has the better Dive Kick.
@85 I love how people coming on here and zap out like your word is the last but in actuality I can bet my TE stick that you are ass in fighting games.... Your whole statement contained nothing to justify you coming off like you tough, this is a forum people can say what they want please save the forum thug ish for someone who is intimidated by it
@86 - if alioune or sako drops cammy I'll be more inclined to say u have a case.but if they're fine with how she is now then so should the rest of u "cammy players".also just cuz his dk is easier to perform didnt necessarily make it better.
when she had it it did everything rufus' did plus it had more hitstun and lead to heavy dmg combos.I feel ur pain but it just sounds like a lot of u r whining cuz ya very self centered with regards to ur mains.with tkcs playing abel against her was pointless.ya act like cammys the worst nerfed char in ae (she's not) guile got 80% of his moveset nerfed,elf lost inv on propeller tortilla,bison lk scissors and st.rh got nerfed,seth lost sim arms now THAT'S A PLAYSTYLE CHANGER!!! cammy will be fine in the hands of true cammy players.every1 else will be busy losing with yun.
well funny you should say that because I play fuerte, dhalsim and cammy, and I can say for sure that Cammy got the worst nerf out of all of them. That's not to say, fuerte was a sh*t character to begin with so he definitely doesn't deserve the nerf. Even with his ultra as is in super he's still crap. Dhalsim needed the nerfs (apart from slower b.lk, wtf thanks for removing his only 3 frame usable move). Cammy didn't only get nerfed, but her entire game play got changed. There isn't any reason to fear cammy after AE, since without tkcs people can just downback all day and os tech. oh, and after one jab or short, you don't even need to os tech since you're out of throw range and any throw after that would be super telegraphed anyway.
@89 Did you see Sako play with AE cammy? : P
I'll repeat myself: it's not TKCS what cammy's complain about, but low-height strikes! People like James C came devastated after trying the AE (even though he calmed afterwords hehe), so it's not your everyday cammy whining.
About divekicks...did you ever see Rufus getting focus absorved and crumple'd from a dive kick? Cammy's CS only give decent hitstun if they are close to the ground. A CS at the height of the shoulders can be punished on block extremely easy because they have a really bad recovery. I'm asuming you never played Cammy, right? Still, she has a lot of other tools Rufus misses (though he can juggle his ultra with almost everything)
Also, I play akuma, makoto and cammy. And you are getting me wrong if you think i'm whining because i want a broken move. It's the rushdown style what I like! They had to give her a buff in absolutelly all her normals so that she can be played in another way! So don't tell me that it's not a huge gameplay change when even the game programmers realize it! She is now a walking monster like cody! >_<
Even if she turns out to be god-like tier, if this is patched into consoles i'll stick with akuma and makoto.
No! Rufus' kick isn't instant. It's total visible while Cammy could do the same AND bust an instant after.
She's also got almost instant normals. I play Hakan, do you know what I would do for even one of her normal buffs in AE. Give me a break guys!
All of ya who drops cammy in AE are either scrubs or tier whores. U didnt win with her cuz u are good but its because cammy was good. And about rufus divekick, they r not better than cammys. Rufus pushes the opponent away after a combo so he cant keep pressuring them while cammy can keep her pressure right after a combo. So like i said u suck with her if u drop her in AE. She is probably still top tier.
Some of you people are morons, especially you #94. Rufus' divekick is mindless, easy to execute, and faster. She is definitely not top tier.
What Seth failed to mention when talking about Cammy is:
1) Spiral Arrow nerf
2) Cannon Spike nerf
All of her useful specials were nerfed tremendously, and in exchange we get stupid combos/normals. Spiral arrow doing less damage and the HK version having specific spacing for two hits is so uncalled for. The cannon spike being nerfed on block so that it's easier (for scrubs) to punish is also dumb.
GG crapcom. I hate you for destroying cammy.
@94 I've been using cammy since vanilla when she was low mid.... Its not a tier thing with me its a fighting style, I use people with good punished,rushdown,wiff capabilites, and point A to B type move so since vanilla I mained cammy seconed akuma knowing that both of them had below average to poor health but what I got is a solid rushdown style in a otherwise turtle friendly game.... That's what this is about changing a characters main tool. Why is balrog light dash punch still safe on block... Why is he not getting a damage or health nerf because he has WAY too much... And the complaint about tkcs building meter is pointless cuase it doesn't build fast at all and what's the difference betwwen spamming that and spamming projectiles and getting meter or spinning lairiet for that matter?
with tkcs removed, abel actually can serve a purpose in that fight,with elf losing invincibility on propeller tortilla zangief won't be so free,with guile nerfed to hell bison might actually stand a chance. now I understand y ppl call this place eventscrubs.so many damn whiners trying to rationalize why their said main shouldn't have gotten nerfed or asking y other chars with similarities didn't get nerfed too like its high school.y not think about ur mains best match up and what makes said matchup so free then u might come close to understanding where some of the seemingly uncalled for nerfs originated.and for the record no char got nerfed worse than guile.he only has 4 moves (2 special, 2 ultras) and 2 of those were nerfed to hell plus he got a dmg nerf. cammy got off easy compared to him.
I know what i said before but its true ex running palm needs armor. Gouken dont have a mash out move. I have been playing fei long for a little bit and if i get into trouble i just mash out a dragon kick and it works 75 percent of the time. the parry is not a answer to wake up. Now with that being said it does alot of damage but at a risk if it misses you pay not like a weak dp or move of the same type the recovery time for those are small compared to the parry.The changes to him i welcome! JUST CANT UNDERSTAND WHY YOU CANT Sfp ex running palm dash tasu fadc ultra 1 but they will let you plaster them with fire balls in the corner into ultra 1 come on!!!!! or you have a jumper and you go for the ex running palm and the strike that launches them is the only one that hits and you just have to let them fall u cant do nothing!!!!! just plain broken!!!!
I think Seth's point is a good one, but it is a bit odd to see Rufus keep his instant dive kick (which doesn't even require a TK motion) while Cammy's is removed. Wonder what the reasoning is for that?
@97 all other sites whine just the same anyways if it did a good amount of stun why not just lower it instead of messing with the move altogether it wasn't the easiest move that would be like eliminating Karas but let's not forget Seth is selling us the character much like he did gen and we all know how that worked out.
@97 also how the heck does no knockdown on ex gh help zangief on his badmatch ups like say I don't know sagat if you are talking about giving other character chances
"Rufus can link his dive kick into UC so his dive kick must be better than cammy! wah~~~~" Well he does it without his dive kicks anyway so its not a valid excuse to argue who's got the stronger dive kick. Let's put it in a simple way, when both characters' dive kick gets blocked, it is very easy for cammy to keep up her pressure, while Rufus has to actually think or else his pressure ends right there.
A lot of you guys must suck at SF and science to still be whining about this.
There is an ecosystem of moves and how each one relates to one another. Cammy is not braindead...you need GOOD execution with her to beat anyone worth beating. The divekick was amazing but it also leads into big damage...I watch a lot of pro Cammys. Often against Chun-Li, one slip and 40% is gone. And we're talking about a move Cammy can do at no expense. Starting to see the light now?
Cammy seems to not be great against charge characters. But the relationship of her divekick to other characters may have been far worse on their end. In order for balance to come to order, a decision had to be made. You can perform the move with an EX bar, but not anyone you feel like it. For 30 - 40 percent of your life, isn't that a worthy trade?
I can see why some people are mad, but the development team feels Cammy had it too easy in the hands of someone good with her.
@ 103
I think the main point, is that it will be hard for cammy to find a way in. I've said this here plenty of times before, it's not being able to do the cannon spikes instantly that was good. As a Cammy mainer and a big Sako fan, I will say that TKCS being instant was worthless. There's a reason why you never saw Sako do it ever unless it's for a punish.
Now, what was great was "delayed" cannon spikes. Being able to do the tk motion and jump and delay the kick button so it comes off about a foot or two off the ground is what made it good.
Seth said that Sako wasn't doing anything in his match against Haneyama that he can't do in AE. He was bullsh*tting. Sako was using a lot of delayed cannon spikes to get in on Haneyama. Without it, it is really hard for her to pressure. That was her one best way to punish those that back dashed a lot.
The two best Cammy players, Sako and Alioune, used it very well. Now Sako said that now it's more of a waiting game. That means she has a harder time getting in.
I want to see Sako and Alioune play Cammy in AE to see their style now.
@101 - I think u misinterpreted my point.think about how ex green hand not knocking down helps whoever zangiefs best matchup ie.sagat having more recovery on high tiger shot helps whoever his easiest matchup is or seth losing nj.fp makes gief serve a purpose against seth.
To every one who's saying Cammy was broken I invite you to look at the tier list on this very site and tell me how she matches up against the TOP 6 characters on this game. Yeah she's high tier but against the better characters on the game (which account for 90% of her matchups because most ppl are tier whores) It's always been an uphill battle.
And trust me I understand why ppl get mad at her because against a character with bad reversals like dhalsim or abel the matches could be pretty lopsided but the solution to that would be to buff their reversals, that's how you create balance CAPCOM. This goes to show you how full sh*t Seth is because he said himself after Vanilla that they were gonna buff characters instead of nerfing them. Yeah right tell that to all the Sagat players out ther...oh wait there are none because you completely neutered their character when a simple damage nerf would have been sufficient.
Even if TKCS was broken how do you justify making her SA and CSpike worse. Those moves weren't that good to begin with. SA is just focus bait and CSpike is like the most punishable reversal on the game besides Guiles FK.
It always baffled me why Blanka, Ken, Ryu, Fei long, Akuma, Bison, Rufus, Balrog, Dee jay, Zangief, Adon, Rose, Ibuki, Sagat, Cody, Dan... all have moves that take you across the screen that are faster than SA, harder to punish, and can't be focused. And Don't give me that it hits low bull because so does Ibuki's on top of being an untechable knockdown.
Yeah yeah I know I'm a whiner, but really how can you call someone a whiner when you don't play their character. Just because I make it look easy doesn't mean it is.
For instance I know that Bison, guile, and Balrog are very easy characters because I mained each of them for a week to find out why I was getting raped by them. Never lost any pp cause there was really not much of a learning curve.
Do 10 TKCS in a row during an online match without a Cannon Spike coming out then comeback and tell me cammy is braindead.
"CStrike has 12 frame startup, and you cannot make it any faster, no matter what motion you use"
The minimum height restriction effectively counts as startup and the time taken to hit the floor is the recovery. Being able to do it so close to the ground gives the move way too little 'total' startup and recovery hence why it is being nerfed.
In response to the "Cammy is ass without it" brigade, I don't think anyone is denying giving her other buffs to compensate.
@ 110
But what about Rufus? His dive kick has no recovery, which leads to better dive kick/grab mixups than Cammy; along with more ultra combo possibilities.
I don't really know what Capcom thinks during their meetings. They make some very obivous mistakes in my mind.
PERSONALLY, I feel as if they change every character and purposefully make some characters bad and some good in order to justify a brand new game. Hence Super, AE, Turbo, and whatever add-on they've done in the past.
Im going to say this then ima leave the subject alone...
IF CAMMY IS SOOO BRAINDEAD AND SOOO GOOD WHY DONT YOU SEE ALOT OF CAMMY PLAYERS!!!!!!!!
Exactly, even though she isnt super difficult she requires timing and skill something alot of America doesnt have its not my fault you cant read pressure
No one is talking about Rufus
No one said Cammy is braindead
No said Cammy shouldn't receive other buffs
Some simple questions:
Does Cammy have a fireball?
Does Cammy have an overhead?
Does Cammy have a relatively safe and quick move for chip damage, such as rekkas or scissor press?
Does Cammy have an actual tool to get into someone's space and _stay_ in there, so that push-back isn't a problem?
If you answer "yes" to any of these, you are wrong. Now one of you smart-asses kindly tell me how to "learn the character" and overcome these limitations to actually be a threat to the opponent.
Do you just not read when people who know the character tell you that one can just down-back all day, or are you just trying to provoke those people with your ill-mannered comments about 'whining'? Because it so happens that we _do_ have something to whine about here. YOU learn the character, then come back and tell us what the secret is that makes Cammy not suck on the bottom of bottom tier. Because it's obvious you either know something we don't, or you don't know anything and need to shut up.
Mxing throws into her pressure is WAY better than an overhead. You get an untechable knockdown to start the divekick mixups all over again and it's not like the opponent can mash on crouch tech because they'll just get counter-hit and combo'd.
Really, what good is an overhead going to be? One hit that doesn't combo into anything and probably leaves you at negative frames. This isn't BlazBlue.
I'm not sure you were being serious when you suggested a rushdown character should have a fireball.
No one is saying Cammy is over-powered but characters whos whole gameplan revolves around one OP move are bad design no matter which way you spin it. Same goes for Rufus.
"does cammy have a fireball?"
no but she has moves that punish fireballs from various spots pn the screen and both get u into opponents space.
"does cammy have an overhead?"
no,she doesn't need one.never did.like bison, she'd really be broken if she had one.
"does cammy have a relatively safe move for chip damage like scissors or rekkas?"
read above answer.
"does cammy have a actual tool to get into some1s space and stay there so pushback isn't a problem?"
yes she does.its called footsies, use them. land low foward into SA and ur in,hooligan over a read fb and ur in,focus absorb thru an atk slower than her dash, grab ur in.Extkcs mixups still exist u know that right?its the players job to stay there. can't do it? too bad.either practice till u can or drop the char.simple
LOL it's hilarious people are complaining so much about cammy's nerf, and rufus' nerf... at least those characters were strong and quite beasty... vega nerfs, anyone?
reducing damage on a low damage output character is ridiculous. nerfing his best normal move to hard is also ridiculous.
(almost) everyone is getting nerfs in various ways... stop complain about such strong characters getting nerfs. it just makes you seem like a b****. sure, everyone should get their frustrations out when they first find out about nerfs and such, that's expected.
but people's constant and insistent complaints, and worse yet, over-exaggeration of them or their effect (i.e. - X is s*** now! or X is worthless or X is the worst character now!). it's particularly bad taste to complain about your character being the lowest or weakest in a tier list (esp when that isn't the case lol), and as a vega user, i was there in the previous installment (SF4), so i know about this.
what you SHOULD be doing is:
1) taking pride that you lay with a "weak character" but still kick ass
2) use the tier list to stay extra aware of you're character's "bad match ups" so you know to be "extra" on top of your game
3) use the pride you have to make you simply "a better player" ...in other words, use your pride to produce determination.
then, impress people with your gameplay using that character - win or lose.
Cammy nice.