With the release of Super Street Fighter 4 Arcade Edition, some reports about various gameplay elements that weren't listed in the blogs have started to come in. Also, some of the statements that were made by Capcom were officially confirmed.
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ryu light shoryu trade into ultra?
FUUUUUUUU.....
"Ryu's Light Punch Shoryuken can trade into Ultra."
Oh boy...
" Ryu's Light Punch Shoryuken can trade into Ultra."
F**k This Sh*t
"Ryu's Light Punch Shoryuken can trade into Ultra."
/facepalm
^HAHA I love how 6 of us in a row just commented on the same sH*it about Ryu.
Also, hooray.... for feilong. Continues my "WTF its not my fault" trend of having all my mains in fighting games magically rise up to the top of the tier list before tiers even come out i.e. Bison, Feilong in SSF4, Pikachu in SSB64 and Shiek in SSBM
ok nevermind now its like 8 people onto that ryu trade haha
I wonder if Daigo will actually stick to what he said at an earlier interview and transition over to Ken. Or actually start playing Yun and Makoto. Return of the 3rd Strike!
im just happy about makoto. maybe i wont have to work so damn hard for wins now.
@sakagaminl:
The Ibuki nerfs simply mean that now you have to decide whether you want to end the combo for more damage (neck breaker) or the mix up (hk. spin kicks into knockdown). Besides, she still has a ton of mix ups outside of neck breaker resets.
@28 thats not gonna be very helpfull because her neckbreaker damage and stun is nerfed.
and you seem to forgetting that against alot of characters ibuki has to aim for neckbreakers into her vortex, now that is nerfed.
she will be alot weaker than she is now, it IS a big deal
@sakagaminl
Ive deleted some of your comments theres no need for that sh!t here
@31 ok it was harsh but the truth.
and on a side note, its just so damn stupid.
people that keep trying to justify the nerfs to ibuki are you crazy?
ibuki not has to work EVEN HARDER than before, and RYU gets his TRADE into ultra back.
that is just utter nonsense
anyone who doesnt think thats lame is a moron
Ryu's dp trade into ultra isn't a buff, since jab dp would leap to ultra anyway.
Just don't make bad jumps and everything is normal.
Shoryuken's should be good and feared.
You should be jumping around anyway.
and let ken be able to trade into ultra too lol
Though I still like ex tatsu after.
eh it's fine that they kinda nerfed her neckbreaker.. Ibuki still has the Tsumuji knockdown for vortex... which I got in a habit of doing.. I guess you have to use that from now on.
Don't why they nerfed her back+mediumpunch antiair though.. It's her only good antiair other than her well-timed raida.
I like what they did with Ryu, because the only reason you would use lp.DP as an anti-air is to set up ultra, but it has so little priority that it usually trades. It's frustrating when you give up your chance to do better damage with mp.DP, take a hit, and still don't land your ultra. Also, it's not as powerful as it used to be, because now you have to be consciously attempting to land Ultra as opposed to just getting lucky off a DP trade.
tl;dr - Someone at Capcom plays Ryu.
I dropped bison from vanilla and mained ibuki because I played her in 3s,
The ibuki nerds are utterly stunning, why nerf ageman I don't get it. I happen to hate the vortex so I understand the nerf there, but she should've received a buff to replace such a valuable tactic. Maybe a faster overhead, and a faster st.hk something man!
@34
i know that some options might still be possible, but just the fact that ibuki got nerfed in itself is already bullcrap, it was compeltely unnessecary, she needed to be left alone like #28 said.
she was solid, and FAR from too good and requires skill.
what the hell is up with capcom, nerfing characters that require most thinking and skill and werent even too good, but buff the already solid easier characters.
i think they are listening to whiners and scrubs too much, this game is becoming worse.
i hope karin or rolento make it in, but probably wont happen.
im probably gonna resort to Arcana Heart 3, wich is a non-bs, well balanced game
@42 youre right but her vortex was FAR from too good, it was easy to block. you just have to know the matchup.
she SHOULDNT have been nerfed, only if she got something usefull in return, like a Kunai that CANCELS other projectiles
we dont need something useless like a faster MK startup, that is AGAIN for SCRUBS who cant link it at the moment.
SCRUBCom, STOP buffing scrub tactics
Well those Ibuki nerfs are just nonsense.
They buffed Fei which was already a strong character and nerf Ibuki that is at (very) best mid-tier...
I just cannot understand why or what they were even trying to do with this at Capcom.
At least, almost nobody is going to play her online if a DLC even comes out and players won't know the matchup then...
But I'm just really trying to see the glass half-full here.
@46 it will be the same but easier to use, and its not very usefull as a poke.
and it is bullcrap to give her something void as that in return for all her nerfs, give her 1 big buff and it will be ok. but she wont get one, cause capcom wants to create the most beginner and noob friendly SF game ever created
"Apparently, Dhalsim's Standing Light Kick is slower."
WHAT?! Do they mean standing light kick or back+standing light kick? The former would be a bit of a shame, but I could live with it. The latter would be egregious affrontery and I won't stand for it for one instant.
I'm positive that I'm better than any of you with Ibuki and I'm not complaining. All of you just need to chill the fucck out, really.
Most of you complaining about the neck breaker nerf are probably straight ass with her and now you're going to have to think of another way to run the same stupid loop on internet baddies all day. Tough shlt, l2p.
SAKAGAMINI
I have never seen a bigger temper tantrum in all my life.
I'm sorry that your dream anime girlfriend got nerfed, but stop whining. You sound like the biggest b!tch.
Have a little faith in capcom, they have obviously created a game you enjoy. They also created a girl named ibuki that you have fallen in love with. Capcom has done a lot for you.
@58 & 59
true scrubs, not even gonna reply seriously to that
how old are you, 13? Grow up
and i would like to Fight against Popo, you make me curious : )
Glad that Gief actually detroyes Yun..
so when I see yun i'll switch from Chun to Gief rightaway
@62
are you serious? everything i said was the truth, and Throwyuken's Comment was like a kid's one.
and we all know how he plays, and your creding him
not that is Ironic, way to make a fool out of yourself
slower LK on sim ?
im guessing on recovery maybe? its no way as slow as standing MK theres only 2 frames difference between them on start up maybe they upped it to 8 frames. i wonder..
thats kinda annoying as its a great poke to bait FA. guess we'll have to wait and see.
Guys he has reason to cry, I've played thousand of matches
With ibuki ageman was very important to beating the kens and adons of ssf4, now I have to re evalute a big portion of my game. Give her more stamina, why weaken an already weak character. She didn't deserve it.
@60
Yeah we are the immature 13 year olds. You are the one who is literally having a nervous fuuuking breakdown on these comments because your character got a nerf that you haven't even had a chance to mess around with.
Not to mention you probably only picked her because you are an otaku scrub. There are plenty of other anime related people to use. Try sakura, she is going to be really good in AE it seems. She is also a Japanese schoolgirl.
Wait to play the game before you get your otaku panties in a kawaii little bunch ^.^ ^____^
idk i think sakagamini has a point the nerfs seem out of proportion for ibuki. Id be upset if they nerfed my main if she was mid tier and not in need of any.
He is expressing it a bit loud but thats his right. Athough he could stop calling everyone and everything scrubs regardless of if it is definitional-y correct to say so he might get a more positive response.
Ryu lp srk trade into Ultra...
Good thing I trained myself not to jump a him. If you ain't learned that by now then....
As for the Ibuki nerfs, most of her moves revolved around Vortex. It's a pretty cheesy go to method of attack. They probably wanted to smarten her fighting style up. A lot of charcters have been hit by the nerf bat in some way, learn to play other charactrs.
@67 did you even read my channel info?
those replays are Old and Void, those replays are from when i just played ibuki like 2/3 months. but i was late with uploading them/
im a hundred times better now, but i cant upload new videos yet because my phone is trash and i want to video capture from my tv.
you have no idea how i play these days.
i would like to fight you seriously.
( you call yourself the best ibuki on eventhubs )
Dont make me laugh, i will make an xbox live account and play you at my friends house just to fight you, if you like? im just curious
Throwyuken is the man, holy shxt. Go figure the game he's "leaving" SSF4 is Arcana Hearts, lol.
Zombie, obviously It's okay to get annoyed at your main character being nerfed, but really, he is getting his panties all bunched up for no reason. It's like, oh no, they're nerfing/tweaking a super amazing anti air?! Never saw that coming right?
How about you WAIT till you actually play the game and adjust to it? I mean, they're making an already easy link even easier (ST. MK). Don't have anything to say about that? Uhh, that's a buff dude. I mean it is pretty hard to land a standing/crouching jab in this game right? Oh wait, it isn't, but from what I saw from your videos you don't hit confirm anything so nevermind.
I keep seeing change notes on nerfs and other crap that just "doesn't seem to work as much anymore" kind of sh*t. If the only extra characters we get are Yun, Yang, and two special boss characters, I say "no thanks" to AE and just stick with the current console build of SSFIV, in which a lot of changes from vanilla SFIV STILL suck. BTW, it WOULD be nice if AE would at least let you go back to hitting opponents after K.O.s like how they did in vanilla, as far as smaller, not-as-important changes go. Yun and Yang just aren't worth anything at all to me and I'm not satisfied with their inclusion when R.Mika, Rolento, Hugo, and a few others USED TO BE on the table. If more are to come, sure, I'll give the game a chance. The nerfs, however, are just a bunch of balancing cop-outs. Make weaker characters stronger so matches don't last a million years when you choose to play a lower tier character versus one that's OP as hell. Capcom just doesn't do SF RIGHT anymore. If they wanted to go back to the SFII days with SFIV, they f*cked up by even paying heed to the SFIII fanbase by including focus attacks and FADCs in the first place. It's not as broken as SFIII's parrying, but still ruins the game. I'd rather have Zero/Alpha counters back, the way they were in SFZ1 and SFZ2, where you had two different ones, per character (NOT like SFZ3, where you only had one and had to do it in a gay way.).
Sorry if any SFIII fans don't like my opinions on parrying, but that system rendered all projectiles useless in the SFIII series. Focus attacks and FADC, along with the ridiculous juggle-into-super/ultra links just broke the game for me and a lot of other great players I know. Out of most of them, I think I'm the only one who even tolerates it and TRIES to stick with this mere SHADOW of what Street Fighter SHOULD be, because they included too many things that should NOT be. Once MvC3 comes out, I seriously doubt I'll play SSFIVAE anyway. Rolento, R.Mika, Nash, and Hugo would've made enough of a difference to make me at least want to go between the two games with friends. -But seriously... Yun and Yang... When they were pretty much the same character in two different skins, I always viewed them as SFIII's "Fei Long/Gen", as far as gameplay was concerned. I see little value in both, even while they play a lot more differently now. With four other kung fu (Chun Li, Gen, Fei Long, Rufus) practitioners in SSFIV, do we REALLY need two more? I would've rather had Rolento's and R.Mika's unique play styles, and even Nash, just to have a DIFFERENT flash kick character in the mix, and Hugo would've made a third "360" character. Abel is kinda close, but El Fuerte's playstyle, while refreshingly unique, doesn't really count, imo. Grrr... Sorry - I'm just angry with the directions that Capcom has been going with their SF games, with this generation. They made too much of it "noob friendly". F*ck "newcomers". Let them learn old school SF rules and mechanics the hard way, like how a lot of us did. The internet already ruins and spoils too much for us, as is - If they wanna memorize cheesy links/combos with juggle links and crap, they should stick with Tekken.
On another note, unrelated, Square and Enix games were just fine UNTIL the day the merged and made "Square Enix". Final Fantasy games have lost what they used to bring to the world, and Capcom, without merging with othert companies is failing in a lot of ways, on its own. SF just seems like it's gonna turn into FF - a shadow of what should/could be, but never again will be.
MvC3 looks good, but they d*cked over fans of characters that weren't included in the final roster and DLC roster.
I'm okay with the game being different from MVC2, but I'd rather they hold the game back and add more characters. Unlike SOME people who feel their logic is sound, where, with 56 characters, "people" only played a small handful - I played EVERY character, regardless of tier placement, according to internet public opinion.
If SSFIVAE isn't gonna add some of the characters that I and other fans want, they should work on SFZIV/SFAIV, at least. MVC2 wasn't very balanced at all, but it was still a fun game and a lot of us had played it for over ten years now. With MvC3, they are so worried about balance because of internet play. That's fine and all, but it's like asking someone with OCD to pick fly sh*t out of black pepper - you get less of what could be. I would put money down on the very inevitable fact, that MVC3 will STILL not be perfectly balanced in the end, and the characters that should've been included would probably HELP balance the game themselves, even if they played EXACTLY like they had in mvc2. Capcom is full of sh*t. Nitsuma's opinions on who's "good" for the roster are stupid. -And Yoshinori Ono is the biggest mother f*cking troll I have EVER seen on the internet, and he had an unhealthy hard on for Blanka. Blanka's an awesome character and all, but those two need to get a room.
Oh, and where the f*ck is my Juggernaut and Psylocke? Stupid dev bastards. F*ck you all.
I hope you all get dry-raped in the butt, by hairy, burly bums in a well-lit alley.
Just leave sakagamini alone alright, if the ibuki nerfs don't bother you, no need to flame or make fun of the guy alright, and with the otaku crap etc. That's just rude and disrespectful, What did he do to you? Nothing, Just talking and elaborating about the Ibuki nerfs that's it. That's why i don't like replying here much because one little thing turns into a nonstop argument. Really like seriously. Was he complaining to the point where it bothered some people, i don't think so considering he didn't post much But that's just my opinion.
I love how Ryu's DP trade into Ultra is under "other stuff". I bet Daigo even leaned to the side and coughed as he said it really fast
It seems like the whole game was nerfed.. These new characters could potentially be god tier as sagat was in vanilla sf4. As usual characters can get around fireballs too easily.
Oh well it's just a game, I'll look forward to SF vs Tekken....this game just seems to be getting butchered left and right, alot of people are going to be upset it seems.
Except calling you guys scrubs, but other than that nothing else. Just drop the argument please.
@Melbester9
It the way he responded to it. I had to delete a few of his posts it might seem like others have started on him for no reason but he went off the deep end first.
Mind you searching for vids of people playing on youtube is possibly the sadest thing ive heard today.
LETS GET IT ON NOW CHOOSE AND PICK THE BEST ONE LETS GET IT ON NOW 5 4 3 2 1
@birdie I'll read your novel of a post(s) after I finish les miserables. Jesus, you need to break it up by chapters verses and books.
@85. When he called capcom "scrubcom" I decided to retaliate. His posts are annoying as flo from the progressive commercials. He is crying like an absolute baby about a game he has not even played yet. Yes his posts bothered me and others who have posted as well as people who didn't bother to post. I don't care if me calling that otaku an otaku is disrespectful, he is trashing on a company that we all love.
So according to Birdie, new plays should be ignored and have to learn SF by playing games that are decades old, new characters who are not what a specific group of fans wanted are not worthy editions, and actual gameplay of the characters is irrelevennat if lore wise it's a 'similar martial art'.
And the fact that he would play any character in MvC2 makes the fact that a small percentage were truly viable A-OK.
Also, SF has TOO many combos/links apparently.
And yes, Ono has such a hard on for Blanka, he has been almost ruined now. Makes perfect sense.
To boil it down, 'Devs did not do everything I dreamed of, so they suck'.
It's this lovable community that elevates Street Fighter
@87. People thought Cody and hakan were going to be overpowered before ssf4 came out.
Cody and hakan.........
I'm scared of Makoto. She could already take you down in super when you blinked, I call high tier.
Anyway: trade srk> U1 for ryu :'( NOOOOOOOOOOOO
No.
@95 Calling someone a scrub for the character they use means you need to look up the definition of the word
Sakagami needs to stfu
I don't have a main but Cammy is the most fun character for me to rush down with and I spent hours perfecting tkcs since vanilla. Guess what... Capcom deleted the move and not even Sako plays her any more. THAT'S A NERF
@bisonisascrub
it's okay man, I know you probably lose 90% of your matches so it's okay for you to unleash your anger here in increasingly ignorant comments. Just keep commenting at random till you feel better bout yourself then be on your way.
@ throyuken & popo let sakagami rant. he has the freedom to do so right. He's probably very pissed off that's why. To be honest i'm an ibuki player an seeing them nerfs irked me as well but glad sakagami voiced my opinions somewhat. But sakagami the game just came out RELAX. If daigo is testing the arcade, for all we know he knows nothing about ibuki so chill out an wait till u an popo an other ibuki players like me try it out later on
All I know is, this better be the last edition of STREET FIGHTER 4! After they port this over to consoles with further balancing/re-balancing then that better be it. I'm sick and tired of this milking the SF franchise way too much. I remember when SF4 first came out and Ono was asked about if a similar thing would happen to SF4 the way when SF2 was milked into too many editions and he said and I quote, "we've learned from the mistakes of the past..." Now it seems that they are doing the exact same thing with SFIV! Geez, SSFIV is barely 8 months old and another edition comes out. Give me a break Capcom. My question/concern is, when are you gonna bring out the truly DEFINITIVE version of SFIV so you can stop milking it to the point of making it into a tweaking-balance-re-balance-add-characters-here-and-there-fest game.
From the way it's going, we'll be getting 10 different editions of SFIV. Okay that may be going a little bit too far but geez, way to milk the money out of our pockets Capcom.
Why'd they bring back the DP trade into Ultra setup? That was removed in Super cause people thought it was unfair for "trying" to counter the DP with timing.. but even if they tried it in SF4.. Ryu had nothing to lose by using the DP..
Why'd they bring that back? It's stupid to have a zero risk factor with an anti air like that for an Ultra setup.. So I guess all the other characters get a trade into Ultra then?..
No.. why would they?.. just Ryu.. -_-
"Fireball characters are considerably weaker in this version."
Vs
"Ryu's Light Punch Shoryuken can trade into Ultra."
I WONDER WHO WON!!!!!!!!!!!!?????????????
Zangief destroys Yun huh? I wonder if their dive kick setups still work?
But anyways they make Fei Long seem like god tier now, wow.
I picked Fei long ever since SSF2T when the anniversary edition came out with 3rd strike, him and sagat were only characters i were able to dominate with.
I just hope they dont make Fei long the most hated character because they make him out to be HIGH TIER, sh*t i still dominated with him in Vanilla, and that was when he was a nobody.
All im sayin is that i hope i dont see too many mirror matches with him, hope he doesnt become the new ken just because hes a high tier. Anyways he still pretty much played the same since vanilla anyways except the Chicken wings got nerfed and he got a Counter ultra for those who like to do those wake up jump in pressure traps. Only this time around u can pressure your opponent with the Flame Rekkas and know damn right your safe 90% of the time.
Image if he could use cr.MP cr.MK into rekkas, he wouldve been to damn god like and u probably wont even need to work for your wins anymore.
SF4 Gen - SSF4 Gen
new jumparch, mk hands-mk hands gone. invincibility on EX oga gone - h. gekiro doesn't connect on some characters, a joke as U2..
THAT was a nerf. to a bottom tier character..
and people are pissed of because of 1 or 2 frame changes -_-
More news please and hopefully positive ones for my girl Chun!
@#97
your a retard! f*ck the nerfs, im still using vega.
#77 your talking like a true scrub
if you watched my vids you would have seen that i always hit confirm you moron, exept sometimes not, i bet youve only seen 1 or 2 matches, and for the second time. Read my channel info and mu last comment over.
and that lp MK link is like walking to me, its the easiest thing i can think of for ibuki.
so a mk startup buff is USELESS, unless for scrubs like you who probably find it hard to link it.
her AA wasnt too good moron, it was a good anti air but not Too good.
you are so dumb, its not about waiting for the game and adjusting. offcourse i can do that, No problem.
its about the fact that she got nerfed while not needed AT ALL, she was far from too good.
easy and solid characters get buffed and some characters that had to work hard now have to work even harder.
Ryu even gets his retarted trade ultra back
dont you see the point, SSF4 is becoming more scrub friendly, if you support that fine. but stop posting worthles replys, everything i said in my comments is the truth and you know it.
you just want to be a smartass and make a big ruckuss, get a life ok
AL PEOPLE PAY ATTENTION TO #95, what a scrub. you should consider selling your game
lol imagine daigo switching to fei long in arcade edition XD
@102 i play cammy too moron, shes my 3rd alternate main, and yes the nerf suck pretty bad i was upset about it too. but for ibuki her nerfs are just as bad.
you dont have a clue what your talking about
(Daigo said something about SSFIV AE! must click the jump mindlessly!)
Oh great all my mains got nerfed; Chun Li, Vega and Ibuki. Happy that there isnt too much more recovery on kunai, and that Chun Li's Hasanshu didnt get nerfed.
Vega's increased recovery on Cosmic Heel is unnecessary. I just started learning how to grab after that move. Oh well, cant wait to see the difference in AE and adjust my game style.
"Confirmed there's more recovery time for Cosmic Heel (Down-Toward + Hard Kick, Launcher) on block, can be be punished by Shoryukens and grabs."
Isn't that move more or less the foundation of Vega's offense? Doesn't look like he was given anything to compensate, either. Back to lower-mid/upper-garbage tier.
Glad to see some of these changes, not so much for others. I honestly want to try this before I start making any demands are accusing Capcom or anyone else of anything.
The main thing that I'm a little irked by is Ryu's DP. We'll see how everything plays once it hits consoles.
@sakagaminl
We get it, you're upset over Ibuki's nerfs. But I think calling Super_Shoto_Fighter_4 a moron and saying he doesn't know what he's talking about was unjustified. How would he know if you also play Cammy? Just like how I wouldn't know you played Cammy. I'm not subscribed to your YouTube channel, and neither is he.
All in all, I say this out of respect and no offense: Stop picking a fight with everyone on here.
@119
Standing MK startup buff was not intended to make " standing lp to standing mk," easier, but to eleminate 1 frame link "crouch lp to standing mk," which makes matchups against ass holes like blanka with crap hit boxes much more friendly. And we won't have to rely on TC4 as much since it also misses some crouchers.
They can't just duck and get away from vortex anymore. So this is not a useless buff as you suggested.
So they nerfed Spiral Arrow again? Good to see CAPCOM has their priorities straight.
Sakagami, sf4 was made with the concept of it being user friendly to all players. So that anyone can just pick up and play and have fun with it. They wanted to go the opposite direction of third strike, and make a simple game that appeals to the masses.
SF4 has always been a scrub friendly game, but it's done so much for the scene so it should be appreciated.
and lmfao at the scurbs crying about ryu's trade ultra. dudley has that but he isn't top tier. sagat has a trade ultra but he isn't top tier. viper has a trade ultra but she isnt top tier. if u bad players been living under a rock, u should also know that yang is going to have a trade ultra set up too. plz stfu.
Ryu's light trade was one of the most broken aspects of Vanilla. It was one of the main changes from Vanilla that people were thrilled to have removed.
I would love to hear someones articulated reason as to why it's back. And lord I pray it's not just because of ryu-maining complainers.
And as someone who plays Honda, Hakan, Ibuki, ya know, people that get worked by Ryu? What makes him so special that he deserves a free Ultra for a late DP?
I'm a lot more interested in WHY they make these changes rather than just seeing a list.
Sometimes it's hard to trust these developers....when changes look random as hell and unnecessary. Fireball characters getting nerfed = rush down characters can shine now. It'll still be fun, might be even better. Zoning out with fireballs is lame and uneventful anyway. =P
I'm thinking of sticking with Dee Jay as a secondary character...
I main Zangief and thinking of picking between Guile/Dee Jay/Dhalsim as a sub character, but have to think about it.
Ryu's trade into ultra just sounds like favoritism. You know, so scrubs can mash it out more and be successful. There's no other reason he would need it, especially with nerfs galore for everyone else. I just hope in future games changes are more sensible towards making everyone competitive and fun (and it actually looking that way).
"Why to people care about daigo's opinion"
Maybe cause he doesnt come across like a complete idiot ;)
I really dont like that ryu trade to ultra, I really dont like the fact of buff fei long camper, he was high right now, and I really dont like why vega was nerfed, well if there is the good reversal ex ST now I'll be fine.
the rest of stuff seems ok and more balanced, only a little bit, but more balanced
why would you ever buff ryu or ken? 90% of online players choose them every time because they're ridiculous.
on a side note... when does arcade edition DLC happen for us americans?
no daigo said, ryu doesn't do a air flip anymore he stay grounded after trade DP. it seems asian people dominates in AE edition: ryu, fei long, gief....
Hasn't Ryu's ground game gotten nerfed pretty hard though? The reduction of range on his low forward should make advancing towards him a bit easier, especially once you hit that red zone.
Everyone just hears that Ryu's light dp trades into Metsu again, but they neglected to remember that Daigo said fireball characters as a whole are a lot weaker now. Kinda of have to take that into consideration on how it's going to affect the entire cast.
LOL at Bisonisascrub
Seriously, Daigo is important to the community, like it or not, fanboy or hater. He has explained why he plays Ryu, even when he is not top tier. Hell, even Mago shifted from Sagat after all the nerfs in super, while Daigo is still sticking to his. I really like Daigo's serious playstyle and his execution and innovation are topnotch. I'm not his fanboy, but I respect him and his accomplishments.
Why don't you go and make a new username, something like ryuisascrub or daigoisascrub, or better yet, imascrub
@ AcidGlow
Altho I'm not one of those who said he'd main her(Vega, Gen, Akuma, and Sakura ftw), I found Juri much more appealing in her intro cutscene fight with Chun li and Cammy than in gameplay. I think Capcom should add a bit more animation to her neutral stand(like Bruce from Tekken), there is such an ackward transition between her neutral animation to any other animation.
Also, I think a lot of would-be Juri mainers would appreciate her if she had more tradition Tae Kwon Do movesets like Hwoarang(Tekken) but exaggerated like Kim or King(KoF). I, for one, would have mained her if she were more like Kim in CvS2 but that's just me.
@145 in vanilla ALL of his uppercuts could trade into ultra not just his lp smh. only in america do ppl cry about ONE buff n run with it as if ryu didnt get his forward fierce, crouching forward and his tatsu nerfed..f*ck scrubs. u guys make me sick.
my god alot of u are idiots.u guys do know that although situational,RYU CAN TRADE TO ULTRA IN SSF4 NOW!!!sagat never lost it,but cuz u read it in a news story ya wanna bitch about it like its new news? act like ya know something.
cammy tkcs = free meter from far that was unpunishable thats y it was removed.b.mp was too good,ive see that crap beat vegas j.fp and ryus j.rh,justified neckbreaker set up her vortex way too easily again justified.i fail to see how down playing scrub tactics like free meter for cammy,lk scissor spam for bison or ibukis vortex equates to a scrub friendly game.if anything now players of these chars actually have to think instead of spamming scrubby crap.
I don't want to get into a buff/nerf discussion but...
The problem (if you want to call it that) with Capcom, is that they envision certain ways for these characters to be played. The buffs and nerfs that characters get are largely according to that, and then considerations of balance. It seems that Ibuki was never supposed to have a vortex, so they're trying to deemphasize the use of it in matches.
But then , what does she have to make up for it? It became a strategy because it worked well in battle when stacked up to her other options. Now that it might be nerfed, how do we compensate? The only other things that make Ibuki, Ibuki, is her command dashes, Kunai, TCs and SJ really.
These things might not stack up when it comes to other characters. Command dashes are unsafe to cancel into, not nearly ambiguous enough to provide a favourable mixup once seen more than 3 times in each situation, and will be beaten by any player with fast reactions/ a solid memory. They don't grant any particular advantages it seems, other than a spacing tool. They are not useless, but not strong enough to base a strategy around.
Kunai is much the same. They require near perfect spacing and timing, not to mention execution, to be effective as a pressure tool. Forget zoning with them. The adjustment made to jump back Kunai could possibly be an effective tool in up close pressure, but that remains to be seen. They've seem to become more centric to her game now. This will be weird.
Her TCs are great, but limited in use. Air TC's only serve to keep the opponent honest with blocking, they're not particularly advantageous in the damage department, and they are very situation specific. Only 2 or 3 of her ground TC's are used regularly in-match and they are very specific too. LP MP HP for damage, LP MP HK HK for mixup. The first is great, you just have to put yourself in a position to hit it, which can be hard considering hitboxes The second is iffy, 2 uses per match at best.
SJ is a good tool. Great for mixing up (crossup, non crossup, spacing, Kunai stuff) and allows some devastating combos.
So what does this make Ibuki? More Cammy like. Kunai could become her divekick. She has no specials or normals that move her forward into the opponents space to keep the pressure on safely, so Kunai will have to do it. She can't zone well enough or footsie well enough to just play a solid distance game, so she'll have to rushdown. Risky, but it's the only choice. She also has to mix it up right from her initial hit and keep the opponent guessing in diverse ways. No more knockdown autopilot. She's gotta be a swiss army knife because once you get predictable, you die. It will be interesting to see how players cope with this, if they can. I don't know if I'll be able to. My execution is good, but not good enough for consistent height Kunais in pressure tactics. I won't drop her though, I'll just have to grit my teeth and try.
^ TL;DR - Ibuki becomes more dependent on Kunai and tons of mixups. Opinion? (You should read some of it though, I explain much better up there.)
I also disagree with how Capcom balances things. I think they need to give players their box of tools and leave it that way, only nerfing when one tool disadvantages the whole cast severely. Neckbreaker into vortex stuff was not that, but that's their decision. SF characters aren't diverse in scope enough to allow a multiplicity of playstyles for everyone. Abel will never be able to zone, Dhalsim will never be able to rushdown etc. For those reasons alone, they should just recognise when a character's match tactics are necessary to that character's viability. But then again, look at what they did to Gen. They just might not care.
For a start, I reckon at least 99% of people talking crap about the AE changes have never even played AE, or even watched other people playing it. Have people forgot about adaptation? It sounds like everyone is wanting to abandon their characters, instead of looking forward to re-learning how to use their character against all the other characters in the game. There will be a period of adjustment, which is exactly what Capcom want. They want everyone to get back on their game and play seriously, give them some new stuff to learn, keep us interested and make us all keep playing the game for longer. If you want to learn to use your character properly again with the new changes, fine. If you've decided your character sounds like they're not for you any more, try practicing some other characters and see if you take to using them. But Jesus Christ, please everyone stop going nuts every time a new bullet point of information comes out about your character in AE. What a bunch of freaking whiners!
i think throwryuken is right, people should just chill, it's too early to tell. generally i believe that the changes are not earthshattering, the game will stay mostly the same, except maybe at highlevel where pros will lose some setups and switch to some new ones.
they're not nerfing the stronger characters, they're trying to remove the most egregious spammy tactics, and i personally applaud the effort.
ibuki's got like a million moves and yet you only see them go for the same thing over and over again. sure it sucks for them, but if that bull vortex now takes more skill to pull off or doesn't work all the time then the game just got more fun.
@SpaniardSRK
I think every SF game, by the same token, was noob friendly. In all SF games I've played, the noob typically play as shotos and would either spam shoryuken or crossup with hard kick into sweeps all day. I don't see much difference in this game. I don't know what make (S)SF4 anymore noobfriendly then any of it's predecessors.
Here's hoping this mindset is not the result of the shortcuts. Like autoaim in an FPS game, I view shortcuts as more of a hindrance than an aid. Anyway, is it the slower pacing? the easier reversal? the lack of tactic negating parries from a press of a button?
And @157:
Nerfing an AA because it was good doesn't make much sense. Some characters still have AA's that are just as good and easy to use.
I would say Bison st. HK and Rufus cr. MP, but I don't play those 2 characters often enough. Not to mention Bison st. HK has been nerfed anyway.
Ageman is not all purpose and loses quite a bit. It's only advantageous because it can juggle (1st hit) if you're quick on your feet, but so can a bunch of other AA's and if they're making Ibuki more mixup dependent, then that juggle is essential to her abilities to do that. IMO.
@kalm - all the chars do still have their tools.tweaking one over used crutch doesnt equal said char not still having the tools necessary to win.just cuz ppl cant spam lk scissors no doesnt mean ppl cant win with bison no more.also a good portion of the cast cant do much to punish excessive use of ibukis vortex.sure they can block it but ibukis still safe.her vortex is a near equivalent to bisons lk scissor spam and needed to be addressed.she still has what it takes to win just like every1 else,only now theres no crutches to lean on.
@ 162:
That's because 75% of those million moves are ineffective. Tsuijigoe is the definition of useless, Kazegiri is only for combos, Command dash is unsafe against most, Raida serves 1 or 2 purposes and pushes the opponent too far out, half the TC's whiff on crouchers, the Air TC's scale hard, her footsies are alright but you have to know them inside and out.
So you have Neckbreaker, Kunai and Tsumuji. Is it any wonder the vortex is heavily used? It's viability over variety. Capcom should've buffed everyone so they could buff areas they want to see used, but that's not their approach.
Lol at the Yang bandwagoners for all these months. Guess it's back to Yun now, huh?
@ 166:
See my previous post. Also -
I understand that "crutch removal mentality", and I never said it wasn't a good thing. I think Ibuki can still win too. But the way Capcom go about it is wrong IMO. She has an inferior pressure game to various pressure characters (Rufus, SSF4 Cammy), there's no denying this. It's why tiers exist after all. So to take away her defining trait is a bit hard on any Ibuki player, because it doesn't encourage branching out - it forces it. Same thing for other characters. That's why I think buffs are better than nerfs, inherently.
Random conspiracy theories: I believe Capcom watched Daigo losing these US tourneys so they gave him back DP trade into Ultra. I blame filipinochamp and others for beating him too many times. I also believe Capcom will purposefully hold off for quite a while before giving us AE because they realized with Super that Americans were starting to catch up with the rest of the world when we're given the game at the same time. I also believe that all the world's money is controlled by the 9 Jew Bankers and that space aliens will arrive on 2012 to admit there is no God.
@Kalm,
Don't try and reason with him. He clearly doesn't know nor play ibuki. And he clearly doesn't know how to block her "vortex."
Her vortex is crap and didnt work at high level play anyways. And she doesn't have footsies, just buttons.
Yeah her vortex is a gimmick, but a fun one and it requires some skill. It's not like Akuma's which is safe and stronger.
@kalm yeah, your analysis is right, the vortex is big, but i can still see the logic in changing the way it works a bit, like not allowing it go on forever.
i feel you about the other tools not being that effective, she probably should have got something more in the buffs, but i'm no way skilled enough with her to understand if her normals change may lead to new possibilities
@172: I'll try to reason with anyone, except clear trolls, but you might have a point when it comes to 166's post. Ibuki's vortex is far from braindead vs good players, and spam will kill you, but I don't think he's seen enough matches to know that. Advice is still better than flipping someone the bird though.
@173: Some reports say her cr. HK HK TC is a great buff for pressure and mixing it up, so we'll see how that goes. It's a good example of why changes on EH are never the whole story.
@kalm - please tell me that u dont honestly believe that ibukis vortex was her defining trait?if u do believe that then ur no diff than the ppl complaining bout not being able to spam lk scissors no more.by all means correct me if im wrong.and im sorry but about raida,ive seen that sh!t grab jumpins so its no wonder y it pushes the chars too far off. the problem is when ppl find these tactics like lk scissor spam or ibukis vortex players tend to get lazy and play on auto pilot which perpetuates the mentality that their given moves are ineffective when said tactic becomes limited. hit training mode and explore.
@172 - ur right,while i do play ibuki i dont main her.i do know how to block her vortex but i wasnt talking about blockin it,i was talking bout punishing excessive use of it.its very ambigiuous and even when successfully blocked shes still safe from punishment.i never said her vortex was brainless just spammable.and unless ur a big name thats placed top 8 somewhere the "it doesnt work at high level" is irrelevant.theres nothing to reason with.all im saying is ibukis still a good char even w/o the vortex,same way bisons still good w/o lk scissor spam,seth is still good w/o nj.fp or cammys still good w/o tkcs.any1 who believes otherwise are 1 dimensional players who cant play their chars without crutches to lean on
SSF4 Vanillas Revenge is what feels like... my main question for Daigo why compare all the match ups with Gief makes no sense since he wasn't one of the top guy like in Vanilla, Also ryu trades again bs he could do that with certain character after certain move trades and they just made so everyone gets hit now. *sigh* the Sagat match was always 6-4 or 7-3 now by the way it sound with the EX Green nerf it's going to feel more like 8-2 (thanks alot capcom) At least Acqua was honest on bandwagon to Yun and maybe back to Sagat
@ UAiA27:
Maybe defining trait is the wrong phrasing. Her defining traits are what I outlined in that hella long post up there.
Vortex was effective and safe, that's why it saw use. It was viable. Even at high levels where it may not have resulted in wins as often, it was still a good tactic. Compare that to how effective say, a Command Dash mixup was or how Ibuki is pushed too far out after a few normals and had to do unsafe stuff to get back in. Compare that to how she could not footsie vs characters with just above decent footsies, or zone anyone besides people like Gief effectively. Now you tell me how that's not an essential part of her game.
It's not braindead easy to spam it vs a good player or certain characters. OS's, ambiguous crosses and plain old ballsy crap has to be done to keep it effective. Timings have to be learned, character and situation specific combos have to be memorised. If it was a crutch, it was one you had to learn to use vs anyone worth their salt.
The people complaining about Bison cr. LK are silly, because Bison still has footsies out the wazoo, to cope for his decreased pressure game (which may not even be decreased by that much).
Ibuki doesn't have that fallback, to make up for it she has to be progressively riskier. That's what I'm saying. For you to say vortex's effectiveness decreases the perceived effectiveness of her other tools is wrong. Her other tools aren't nearly as effective. That's a fact that I guarantee results will back up. Have you discovered a good use for Tsuijigoe? Because after 8 months of playing, I haven't.
That's my opinion. If you don't agree, let's agree to disagree. And when I said grit my teeth and try to win, training mode is what I meant. I'm not the best player, but improvement is eternal.
well they never revealed all the changes to "hype" the arcade which is why they would put please use the character extensively etc.
@ UAiA427 - In light of your other posts though we have similar mentalities. I still think Ibuki can win, but she's a worse character for the nerf, if it's that bad. There is no denying that.
And her vortex is not necessarily effective vs just good players either. You don't have to be high level to learn to block/negate it, just patient and observant.
And btw, Raida gets stuffed way too much for it to be used as a consistent AA. It's hitbox and lack of invincibility make it hard as hell. It's not even like you can make it a situational AA to add to a close st. HK. or cr. HP, it's just too impractical.
@kalm - ur right u do have to be riskier.this i do agree with all im saying is her vortex is not what made ibuki ibuki and real ibuki players will continue to do their thing even w/o it.as for Tsuijigoe, if thats that flip over move that crap was useless even in 3s so yea.also ibuki didnt just get only nerfs,she got some buffs also in particular she got her cr.rh>st.rh target combo which was a big part of her game in 3s.
plus theres probably other buffs she got that we dont know about.did any1 know sims st.lk was slower b4 2day? no.was it listed? no.nothing can be said about the current effectiveness of a char in ae since we dont have it yet.i respect ur opinion i just think theres some holes in it is all
@terror - do u know everything pertaining to changes made in ae? no so for all u know the chars u named couldve received buffs we dont know about that could make them better than they r currently.also tiers dont determine changes a char receives.all im saying is reserve ur judgment til after we get our hands on ae.
Yun bandwagon.. T_T hopefully it won't be constant mirrors matches. Still using Yun, its been a long time waiting. With all the tweaks I hope for more variety in fights and not just the norm cast of characters.
everyone should understand by now that bisonisascrub has an alternate account. who knows what it is but i know for a fact that its not used for trolling. bisonisascrub is his trolling account. for all we know this could be some pro, who just likes looking at people who take this game to seriously, get upset lol.
@ UAiA427:
You're right, good points. Like I said, similar mentalities. I've already begun to speculate on what her changes might mean for her character too, in that long ass post I keep referring to lol. And I've seen some good things being said about her new TC, so we'll see how she turns out. EH never has the whole story anyway.
Trade Srk into ULtra is BULLSHXT!!!
I thought we took this out for good already...why did they put this back?!?
I have no problem with clean srk into ultra but reversal window is so freaking huge it's so easy to mis-time srk and still get the ultra out
Acqua added that: "Ibuki and Rose are totally nerfed."
Why Rose?.... She was fuc*ing fine.. but yeah, its Capcom, buff a character instead like Fei, that doesn't even need them.
god damnit. i hate getting off the Ryu bandwagon. if daigo stop maining Ryu, so will i
Well, I'll still be playing Ryu no matter what, I put alot of training into him since vanilla, and I knew he was gonna be weaker in this version.
You're all overreacting about the trade into ultra, if he needed that back, something big must've been nerferd (as usual). I think it would be more apropriate to complain about balrog.
so basically crapcom decided to take a few random people from mid tier and buff the crap outta them and nerf the rest.
i playd ibuki and chun li , ibuki main.not that im crying about the vortex nerf but come on give her something ibuki is now just useless thats all. she has alot of moves like someone already said over half of them are useless,and now kunais are about useless too there only purpose was runaway pressure and vortex mix up. if you get hit by a jumping in kunai ya u can combo but only someone bad will get hit by it. and the timing on it is strict as heck so its not like your actually faking them if you know the distance you know when ibuki is going to the kunai she is now a rushdown character with 0 gimmicks and if you plan on winning with her get rdy to spam lp lp mk spin kicks all day for that chip baby.
well looks like chun li is the new main again cheers crapcom you obviously dont like diversity or balance.
"she is now a rushdown char with 0 gimmicks..." how is this a bad thing? sounds like u dont like diversity or balance.when r ppl gonna see that ibuki is more than just the vortex? ppl swear like shes completely useless w/o it.heres a thought, maybe u the player are completely useless with ibuki w/o her vortex.1 dimensional players FTL
Lol I'm still gonna main Cammy and Ibuki because I like them as characters and a few nerfs won't stop me. I never used the vortex anyway and rarely used the tkcs with Cammy. What I'm disappointed in is Cammy's new alternate outfit, they should have given her her alpha outfit. CAMMY AND IBUKI STILL DA BEST FO' LIFE!
as a Vega player.......I think its ok...as for everyone else I hope you're glad.
@ 206 you obviously bad so im gonna make this really short
most rushdown characters have "gimmicks" on a knockdown such as tokido said scoring a knockdown is more important then dmg, one of ibukis only gimmick was her vortex other then that she has the slowest overhead in the game and you must not have seen her floaty ass jump arc she has no wake up game now she is gonna have to play an useless zone game with her terrible walk speed and her barely passable pokes. beyond that they nerfed her best normal back medium!!! so she cant even do that either. welcome to the trash can just like vega and fuerte.
although im glad to see makoto out of bottom tier crapcom got one thing right and ruined 10 more things.
So far the AE DLC content is just Yun and Yang... I'm pretty sure they'll make Oni Akuma and Evil Ryu purchasable aswell since most boss characters get released on console releases anyways.. I wouldn't pay more then 5 bucks for the whole set of 4 characters.. that's it.. It's too small to be worth 10 bucks. But if they sold them seperately in pairs of 2 then I'd only buy the Dark Hadou players. =D
@SHOGUN
i dont know man, i hope they do. But first i hope the fix the buttons for vanilla SF4, last time i went the HP and LK buttons werent working :/
Face the fact. SuperRyu Fighter. If they nerf Ryu, they will piss 30% of the SF players. So they will do whatever to please these 30%. If Ryu can't utilise it, it won't be in the system. Capcom is building the SSF4 system around Ryu.
If you look into the Player BP statistics, any average Ryu players can easily achieve over 15000 BP. While other characters struggling trying to even maintaining above 10k
People can mash DP and get free ultras w/ Ryu again!
Okey I just came back from Playing som Arcade Edition at Takadanobaba in Tokyo. I'm a cammy player so I'm glad that I get to play her finally on the Arcade.
What I noticed is that Instant Cannon Strike doesn't work. I haven't played SSF4 since Juli so I was abit chocked. Otherwise it went so so, 50% win approx.
Didn't get to see any shin akuma or evil ryu but yung and yang where there.
@217
STFU you dumbass! They didn't ruin anything, they just added new characters and balanced out the game. That's it! Sure they could've added someone better than Oni Akuma and Evil Ryu, but they definitely didn't ruin ANYTHING! You're just raging for no reason. And BTW Daigo said that SHOTOS are getting weaker
hmmm none of this really affects me. I mean i main cody and fei and it seems like they both have gotten some buffs so i wont complain. i can understand the ibuki players complaints along with the vegas but to counter argue that they should nerf ryu is dumb bc id have to say that 30-40% of the players playing use him they dont want people to show less interest in the game. were all going to have to deal with the add ins of yun and yang ill probably pick one of them up since ssf4 got me back into the scene and i didnt play with them much in alpha or 3s. I still wanna see how seth plays now hes supposed to be a completely new character people are saying.
nice 1