A translation of the most recent SSF4 blog changes has been posted for Dhalsim, M. Bison, Akuma, T. Hawk and Adon, by Street11.
I cant wait to see the changes and 1stt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
lol 3rdddd and 2nd!!!!!!!! lol last time i posted 1st i got deleted lol
I only see information on Dictator. Guess you posted this too early.
last time??? repeated offender, a damned shame.
Making bison c. lk a bit better to combat his lk scissor on pushing him back more, a change for a change for what reason in the end idk :/
They seriously need to reduce dhalsim's poke ranges by like a fist length so that it won't be so frustrating getting in on sim...
Also, I was actually hoping to see more recovery on psycho crushers because that move is literally too safe as reversal now...
Anyway, I know I'm going to get a lot of heat from making this comment, but whatever...
PLEASE DON'T NERF ADON.! He is my main...I'm looking forward to his changes. Hopefully it won't be too many..I do hope they buff jaguar avalanche's damage distribution in combos though...it is severly scaled
@8
With the push back of Bison's light kick, it's more of a nerf for me. It makes it harder for me to put forth scissor kick pressure, which in the other games, I could run infinite amount of scissor kick pressure until someone learns to break from it. I don't see why Eventhubs make it in Bison's favor because it was never punishable in the first place.
Love T-Hawks HK buffs. Already powerful moves got even better :-D
"• His Ultra 2, when canceled during teleport only, has bigger hitbox downwards. Standing Hard Punch, Teleport, into Ultra 2, is possible now."
You need to add the note "possible now on crouching opponents". It was already possible on standing opponents...
no.. no more command ultra for Bison.. nooooo!
Now I'm not saying Dhalsim was nerfed to death, but to you guys complaining about him getting buffed: Sim is a character that wants to keep the opponent out. His pokes to keep people out has been nerfed=>opponent less scared of trying to rush on Dhalsim
The new combo abilities are great and all, but Dhalsim would rather not be in the range to use those kind of comboes. Also it's worth noting that the damage on his ex flame was nerfed with 50 damage, which is the same as the super nerf. I could be surprised and Dhalsim is now better than before, but everything points towards a drop on the tier list!
Making Psycho Punisher a charge motion is a horrible idea. That motion is so hard to do for me. This is really going to effect my game.
Bison has always been a charge character, it was ridiculous for him to have a move you have to buffer. It was a n00b friendly move that only pisses off n00bs. This was a change to cater torwards novices who complained about that ultra 2.
So though Bison's Ultra 2 is a charge command in AE, it gets more power and I like the buffs that Bison and Adon got. I'm an Adon player and I need loads of practice.
Glad Adon got some buffs. Would have liked a trade in Jaguar Tooth recovery for priority, it's still too easily defeated by everything.
And considering Hard Rising Jaguar is essentially a Shoryuken, it could do with an extended hitbox and a little more invincibility. It's not right that is can defeated by an aerial light attack when the rest of the shotos and Sagat are so protected with their counterparts.
Wow, they really screwed Bison. Bison isn't A tier now except on paper, and he hasn't won anything in vanilla or in super. He's a limited character based on fundamentals, and they nerfed his fundamental scissor kick pressure. Way to go, Capcom.
Naw, I'm not trolling or anything, it's just for whatever reason, I have trouble with the charging ultra command. I always screw it up and end up jumping. I just need to practice, I'm still getting used to the fightpad.
My M.Bison Analysis:
The s.HK is indeed a nerf, however it is nowhere critical. People who rely on fighting a distance game with Bison will have trouble with this, but then again, WHY ARE YOU PLAYING A DISTANCE GAME?!! Bison's rushdown is not hugely dependent on his s.HK and this nerf will also help people in the corner not get raped as hard by the s.HK
The c.LK hitbox change is only bad for the people who constantly crouch tech with Bison. I know there are people out there who constantly do it, and it's a BAD habit. It's easy to get them with a frame trap. This isn't bad at all in my opinion, it just makes him less friendly for scrubs.
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The lk scissor kicks will not make Bison's corner trap as dangerous; he won't be able to spam them. This can however still be an effective way in putting your opponent in the corner with it's further push back. Otherwise, as long as Bison's lk scissor kicks are 0 on block, I'm fine.
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Bison's ability to have his super go through projectiles is certainly a buff, but with such usefulness with his ex moves, it may not be used often at all. Though I see this as a Chun Li factor whereas her EX moves are pretty effective, though when she gets SUPER, she's that much more deadly. Bison players have nothing to complain about with this new perk.
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Giving Bison the charge command for the ultra was capcom's way at letting the fireball characters at least fire ONE projectile without getting pooped on by bison. I guess they went by, "Fire too many and bison will be right in your face."
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Overall, these changes seem to make Bison not as deadly in the corner. They also made him less noob friendly. However, I believe he is still strong as ever and in good hands, can still be a monster. Though I believe he's still going to continue to get owned by Guile
T.T
WITHOUT LK PRESSURE M.BISON HAS NO PRESSURE GAME AT ALL!!!! So there is no reason for me to keep playing him. And dont give me that st mk and st hk BS because if you remotely know how to use your brain then you can avoid a simple poke. So why use him?
@#33 oh snap i read that wrong thought they extended the hit box abit so he wouldnt be completely outta range for with lk scissor pressure. Make sense now they trying to get bison players from spamming it all day against less fortunate people.
@#30 i seriously hope you are joking, bison been doing that charge motion since ST days. And U2 being a charge motion only really prevent bison from strolling forward and whip out an U2 against people doing things they shouldnt. Personally if i mess up with buffering the motion id just get a scissor kick instead of a teleport now with a charge motion which is better for me lol.
Nothing on T.hawks hit box on U2? it already had like a 4 frame start up, what is making it faster gonna do if it gonna brush up against people mid air and not grab them. Would be nice to reliably grab random chicken wings and hurricane kicks with U2 but capcom wont let me.....
And close S. HK was already +4 on hit WTF, super grab range i dont see that changing much if i cant get in and stay in to set that move up when i gotta use my ex meter to get around BS. And besides i found Far standing HP to work better than Hk seeing how people cant really crouch under it and comes out faster.
I really wish someone would put the full translation up for the others Ryu, Balrog, C. Viper, Cammy and Guy
are summarized and don't have the over all part
@43 while some parts of your analysis were right, Free1up is also correct. If Bison can't pressure, Bison really doesn't have any tools but to lame it out. And since he doesn't have great (i.e., hardly any) zoning abilities, even that is difficult.
"...he's more dependent on players' skills due to the adjustments."
also i wouldnt call what they did to bison buffing him, his changes won effect him really
@ 46 bison has awesome zoning andy ocr has his name due to how great bison's zoning is lol. if anything I bet you can only do 2 light kicks to scissors instead of 3 now lol
So it'll be harder for Bison to spam his light kicWHAT is Akuma doing in that pic to Chun-Li?!
mmm good sim nerfs, not drastics with some buffs, I dont think he will be droped in tier
second good changes for bison, still a very good character, only noobs and spamers will be affected.
third, so good hawk is getting buffs, he need those buffs.
akuma, still very powerfull the tatumaki scape? he has that teleport move, he dont need buffs
Adon, I really dont think he need those buffs, that guy only atack with jaguar kick safes, is just like fei....
Im worried cuz some characters have buffs when they dont need them, like fei, ken or adon, including dee jay, is like chun in vanilla she was ok but she got buffed and made it top tier, and in other hand, we have still damn powerfull characters like chun and rog and they have almost no nerfs, God.... I really hope for more changes for vega, he has more nerfs than buffs, dee jay or fei was higher on tier and receive the hell buffs thats unfair :(
Hawk needed spire to have better frames! at the moment it's punishable on hit! and the point of spire is to stop in front of opponent so you can 360, extending hitbox of lp spire will stuff that gimisk up... why wazn't his lp 360 damge and range increased? geif had better lp 360 range and damage but still was buffed even further
@47
So... I guess this means
Bison players complaining = scrubs
Bison players not minding at all = not scrubs
Yeah... That seems right to me. I've counted a few comments more *facepalm-worthy than that Alpha 2 review.
Looks like akuma is showing off his improved MP shoryuken
@#49 yea bison can zone, but i always like playing bison cause he was a pressure bot and pestering ability against friends. Now mainly pestering ability now :(
switching back to mvc2 to prepare for three will not miss ssf4
@ 47
That's exactly what I thought. If all he knows how to do is lk scissor pressure, without using Bison's godly pokes, then he must not be a good player.
O yea.! Adon got buffed.! +6 on medium punch hit, more frame advantage on normals, hard punch into med jag kick, faster super and no glow on ex jag tooth til he touches the wall while being invincible to projectiles. Nerfing his wakeup time doesn't really bother me, juri's wakeup time is horrible && yet she is a very good character. I only wish capcom would've made jag avalanche do more damage distribution in combos. Its severly scaled, even if you have a full revenge bar. But o well..adon was my main and will continue being my main.
PSN:ray908
Bison pressure will be nerfed but I dont think thats a bad thing. Right now he can simply hit and run till he gets you in the corner and pressure you till hell and most characters really cant do much about it. Now he is a little more balanced for this game and wont dominate as much.
He will probably still be A-tier but now he will be pretty much strictly be a hit and run character.
@49 Bison cant zone like that, he has no reliable AA and his only good poke is s.HK (which is one hell of a poke btw). He realy cant zone but he can keep run away really well and pressure really well.
@49. Bison can zone against characters not designed to zone, but if he is in zone range, it often means he is in his opponent's jump range. It's fairly easy for most characters to get in on bison since he only has bad situational AA.
@crispylinks77
Yeah, I'm going to sound like Marn right now, but it has to be said. All the players who even try to complain about Bison being nerfed probably were not good to begin with. I am a Bison player myself and most of these changes did not even phase me. I can think of a hell of a lot more ways to pressure and zone with Bison than just his lk scissor kicks. His throw for example is one of his best tools for placing his enemy where he wants them.
Yeah, I'll admit I was kind of bummed about the lk scissor kicks, but the zoning ability of them, being able to push them further into the corner kind of made up for it. Like it said on the changes:
"...he's more dependent on players' skills due to the adjustments."
Yeah bison's U2 needed to be a charge I mean they did it to Chuns U2... wait
i really dont see how any of T.hawk changes help him in ANY bad match up and he has quite a few. That ex condor dive isnt gonna help against any solid chun li, guile, sim, rose, gouken... there damned pokes after a fireball will still just screw him over when he sails thru them.
Even jumping back and using it to land next to them, they will still will be able to escape due to short recovery time on fireballs. And all but gouken can avoid his standing far HK and condor spire can be punished on hit , and if you try to space it out right to avoid neg frames you are in range to be poked out of it on reaction..
Blanka seems to be in range for a 360 after a block blanka ball but that isnt due to thawk buffs.
@47,
I can assure you, I am not a scrub. It's just easier to do a motion command ultra than a charge command ultra because there is waiting time charge command in order to execute it. And doing ultra 2 on reaction against opponents who throw out fireballs and whiff moves is what made his motion command U2 in Super so effective.
And just like #30, I too have difficulty pulling off the Charge command ultra mainly because I am using a pad. And in pad, it is easier to do motion command ultra than a charge command ultra that's why I never use Bison's U1. The change in his U2 seriously limits his offensive options imo, coz now Bison players have to sit back and charge the move just like U1.
Bison was too good, he got the right nerfs while still being relatively strong. After Sagat got butchered I still use him, adapt and strengthen your abilities. Hmm can't stand fairweather fans.
Wow, lots of buffs going around, too bad the dictator nerf to the short s.k. is irrelevant since that pressure happens in the corner for the most part anyway. After seeing this, Viper and Rose really got shafted, Viper got nothing except a buff to U2 that no one uses and Rose is nerfed back to SF4 standards; guess we know who the Capcom dev favorites are...
*edit*
...waiting time in doing a charge command ultra in order...
P.S. my main concern is, this change in the command for Bison's U2 is that it will limit his overall effectiveness against opponents who are in punishable situations, like the examples I mentioned above. And I don't even care about the damage buff to his U2 because what good is it if you can not land it as often as you would like to.
@67
There's a part of the article I think you missed:
"...he's more dependent on players' skills due to the adjustments."
@74
It just gives fireball characters a chance to shoot SOMETHING instead of totally being shut out from Bison's ultra.
@75.. Screw that.. Well DUH.. Any character that gets nerfed is gonna take more skill to win with. It takes skill NOW to win with Bison and any one who says otherwise doesn't know what the heck they're talking about. People that complain about losing to him all the time need to learn how to block; he has no overhead so its simple for them.
@#70 using a dpad isnt a valid excuse for executional errors, i use the ps3 pad and doing charge motions leaves less chances of the shortcut motion to activate his teleport to happen. And the charge times in the game arent bad at all. you can be rushing down someone and still have the move charged for moments you need it seeing how you will usually have a charge waiting to use for scissor kicks or ex Psycho crusher. It is no different here. Good bisons wont have to sit back to use it if they dont want too.
meant to say @55. in my #70 post. And I'm still salty about the Bison U2 nerf. No matter what y'all say.
@#79, well you're right about the execution error thing happening on the dpad, coz believe me that happens to me a lot. I still stand by my opinion though. That Bison's U2 should have just been left alone.
@lynx_ID
i see now YOU'RE the one b!tchin and complaining how your sh!tty vega has more nerfs than most others. i bet you'd be better in teaching "typical troll 101". here is your sh!t right back at ya "find another main you pu$$y" ha ha, you troll hypocrite
@#82
Yea they could of left the motion alone if they left chun lis alone seeing how she can cheese ball her way into landing off most of her crap, atleast it doesn't too alot of damage. But i have a personal vendetta against chun li since sf2 days.
and in reference to guile buffs, as much as i hate him he should have something to do after a flash kick fadc when he doesnt have an ultra 2 stocked. Im tired of watching Guiles fadc flash kicks just watch the person drop out the air as he walks under them unable to do nothing with all that hang time.
True how did Chun escape her ultra being motioned change is beyond me, Shame about Adon's wake up though he was fine with it.
Also why in the blue hell does DP need even more invincibility, Also most of these changes won't help T. Hawk in the long run.
Check this sh!t out:
I was just playing this Rog online and RIGHT in the middle of the match, the match stops dead like he ragequit or something, so I wait to see the message "Lost connection to opponent" but after sitting there for 5 seconds, the match resumes, lagless.
Which would be fine if the freeze hadn't removed control from me. All of a sudden, NONE of my button inputs work for the rest of the round and he pounds me dead. I was so frustrated that I couldn't even start to fight coherently the next round.
I've had this happen to me more than once, so f**k it, I'm never playing SSF4 online again. BUT... this sh!t's gotta stop and I mean soon. I haven't had ANY fun online for the past week thanks to this and the trolls who like to take their 0BP Akumas online and thrash me, as well as running into Pros who are WAY outta my league (once landed just 2 hits in an entire match). I'm tired and I'm going to bed.
They didn't say anything about Akuma's fadc into U2. Didn't Seth or Ono say Akuma can utlilize his U2 better with dp fadc into U2 in AE.
@ 86
I think Bison's U2 became a charge to make it harder to punish fireballs. Only Guile, Gouken, and maybe Dhalsim recovered fast enough... incidentally, all the other fireball characters are kind of bad against Bison.
Chun can't punish fireballs with U2, that's why it doesn't need to be a charge. She has U1 for her fireball matchups anyways.
Also, as for Guile, I still wished he got nerfed in some way. It takes way too much work for most characters to get in on him. The damage nerf he got for sonic booms will just mean I will be frustrated for longer each round trying to get in.
Well a charge character should have charge motions is the jist I'm getting to justify the Bison nerf so why not chun.
Don't like the nerfs to Bison's Ultra 2. Capcom, I didn't switch to U2 because it's overpowered or something, I switched to it because U1 is really really bad. Please give back old inputs, it's the input and utility, not the damage I care about.
The buffs to T Hawk sounds good. I like Adon getting buffs as well but... more grounded? Why? He's a flying guy. If I wanted to fight on the ground I'd pick almost anyone from the rest of the cast....
So Adon's random wall bounce is STILL a random wall bounce?
As a guy who gets most of his wins with Bison and FeiLong, I'm nevertheless glad that Bison's scissor kick/cr. lk pressure is nerfed in offensive pressure but still somewhat safe. Although its always nice to win, I felt like a dick everytime I catch someone with cr. lk and light scissors one after the other. It was too safe for me and too annoying for them. Now, its still safe but not damagingly annoying, just like a light version move should be.
The Ultra2 on the other hand, might as well be dropped for Ultra 1. Everyone knows its gonna have that vertical charge input. I don't mind charge ultras but the friggin DOWnBACK requirement to charge is asking too much. If someone is throwin fireballs i'll focus-dash-ultra1 for delicious punishing damage. Of course I still expect to combo into ultra2 by precharging it during a air-to-air j.mp but then again ultra1 does that too.
RIP Psycho Abortion/C-section.
And I'm glad Bison's lk scissors push back a little. Before it was spaced you in the perfect spot for Bison to repeat it over and over again.
I'm curious about dhalsim's damage, is it just yoga flame and super or his normal moves gets a bit of damage nerf as well? Also I'm not really sure about what capcom is up to with all the change to close range medium moves having insane startup and frame advantage.
For all of those wondering why Bison's U2 changed to a charge command, and not Chun's:
Kikosho has ALWAYS been a motion command. It would be ridiculous to change it.
Bison's supers on the other hand have always been charge commands. (Except in the vs. series and SF EX)
But yeah on topic, good changes all around!
Do they really think these small Ultra buffs are gonna make people change their minds? Akuma can now hit crouching opponents with Ultra 2: not a very good improvement. I doubt we will be seeing this Ultra utilized any more than we did in Super. C. Viper gets a better hit box on her Ultra 2: again not a major buff. Most Viper players will stick with Ultra 1. Balrog's Dirty Bull remains unchanged, aside from the motion. Can still be jumped out of post Ultra flash, still a bad Ultra. Same with Honda.
If Capcom seriously wants to make both Ultras viable, they need much better changes. People like Rufus who have two very useful Ultras for different purposes are a great example. Sadly, I don't see this happening.
@grimmjow316
Chun is a hybrid
Bison's U2 became a charge motion because he's a pure charge character. I'm guessing his new command for the charge ultra will be d/b, d/f, d/b, u/f+KKK like Flash Explosion.
Still it'll work just like before only we wont have the problem of Bison having free movement before unleashing it. Chun players punish fireballs no problem with U1, same with Guile and U2, so why are Bison players complaining so much. I'm guessing because they are lazy
im a bison player
more push back on scissors? SWEET. ill just use c.mp for the loop.
bison U2 charge motion? WHO CARES! throw a fireball to a crouching bison and people will get it. plus i mostly land this ultra on 50/50 set ups anyway. if i score a knock down and i see the word technical on their side of the screen, i hope they have some invincibility because its gonna be guessing time!
all i'm hearing is whining nobody seems to be thinking about the arcade build and are basing all their fears on what they have played in super. with these changes i am definitely seeing balance coming and maybe these were made to enable yun and yang to be competitive with the rest of the cast. when i heard elf nerfs i thought "oh shyte" then i thought hang on i'll persevere and if i don't like it well i can practice more or switch. there are 36 other characters and i am competent with 30 of them so it won't be hard to find another one that i can enjoy playing with. so give the game a chance and stop whining.
Vega should be looked into ex wall and u1 can be grabbed or knocked out of at start, which is wrong. CApcom. As for m.bison, that means it would be had for me to focus attack stun u2, cause it hard for me to charge after the fadc! Oh well! What about s.akuma and e.ryu, hope they used the programme for alpha2 s.akuma a.i.
Its funny that they want to nerf runaway tactics but they keep nerfing the few offensive characters in the game. o well, ill stick to hdr until sf x tekken drops but capcom will prob do the same bs and make the game another turtle paradise with all the same bs thats in sf4.
@112
How easy is it to combo into again? When bison can mash low short into ultra then its time for a nerf, all capcom did was listen to online idiots that try to fireball bison full screen or better yet get hit by it randomly as a cross up.
You are Crazy ..Capcom !!!
Nerf Ultra 2 of M.bison 450 !!!is too stronger so
there are 5 characters that absolutely must be nerfed
you are Ryu, M. Bison, Barlog, Cammy, E.Honda
an ultra should not have more 'than 350 damage
can not 'playing for a compromise Ultra ..
fix all the hit box bugs...
this game sounds like a joke
Bison Ultra 2 was a great anti projectile move.. buffering it and waiting for that fireball to be on screen.. now that it's a charge.. it's useless for that purpose.. I might aswell go back to Ultra 1 cause it's an anti air Ultra.. :S
Wasn't Akuma supposed to get the fadc into into ultra setup too?
I'm sad Bison's U2 is charge now, it means I won't be doing as many jumping medium punch -> U2 with Seth now.
And maybe this is just me, but I think Vega's U1 should have complete invincibility until the wall, and then only projectile invincibility. I'm tired of getting hit out of it and losing my entire meter.
@ 113
Yup this is a defense oriented game. Caters to user-friendliness which means caters to sh*tty players. Well in 2 months I'm switching to MVC3 so it's all good :)
Chun's U2 can't be compared to Bison's U2.
Psycho Punisher can punish mistakes from the other side of the screen and you can also hold it back if you see the player reacting to it. Basically you can make it safe.
Kikosho is an ultra that you have to be fully committed to.
Bison will still be strong. Its not like they reduced his damage or stun. He still has the (in my opinion) best corner escapes and wake up game. Vanilla Bison's won't be bothered about his Ultra.
If your good shouldn't have an Ultra during a match.
@113
I love the visuals of SF4 but hate the mechanics. Not worth the time. I mean how can you learn fighting game when it constantly changes. Super has barely been out for a year.
nerf ibuki and cammy, buff dhalsim?
are they on crack again?
and adon has too many buffs, also the thawk buffs are good, but he shoul dhave gotten a damage nerf on his 360's
"• Comparatively, he is above standard in terms of a character's strength, but he's more dependent on players' skills due to the adjustments."
I repeat and QUOTE!!!
"...he's more dependent on players' skills due to the adjustments."
what this means is your "pressure game" is gonna have to get a bit smarter and don't rely on being on auto pilot because thats how it feels when I fight a ton of Bisons, they tend to go on Auto Pilot because they think they are untouchable....Then I shove a SBK up their holes. Moral of the story USE YOUR BRAINS!!!!
Time to make the donuts.
Okay, sorry...I don't have a cool catch phrase. But anyway, I'll be much stronger, so look out.
A lot of my favorite characters are getting many buffs. I'm really going to like Æ
man can't wait to use dee jay. looks so solid in AE edition his dash in to ultra is easier to pull off
@ 21 (SpaniardSRK)
WTF are you on about?! Adon is curently bottom mid tier. And his buffs will probably only put him at the top end of mid tier. And Tier list doesnt really mean diddly squat unless your as good as some like Mike Ross or justin Wong.
I for one am soo happy my main(Adon) is getting buffs. Most of his normals were very week. so he'll probably be more balanced now
People who main bison complaining? sorry he's not as good as he was before, but im sure you guys can manage, its not like he's bottom tier now. He's probably high mid at the very least so stop your whining, if it really bothers you that match go play chun-li.
@138 if you read it properly i actually said Bottom Mid. which means bottom of the middle. He's in the bottom half of the whole table
I love people complaining about how fast the game is getting new changes when back in the days of the VS series and SF II you were getting an extra iteration literally every year and those were much bigger changes.
As for Bison nerf, I think the logic behind it is pretty simple. It was a full screen punish, it could be juggled, it could be done on reaction, it could be made safe from full screen and it had stupidly deceptive range. It needed either a damage nerf or a changes to it's input and as it was already low damaging they couldn't lower it anymore. I love Bison, not too happy about the changes to lk. pressure but people have to understand that he had a brainless tool and all this has done is change that.
Hell compared to Fuerte who was crap and is now crappier (yes, please buff already crappy normals), nobody should be complaining. Bison nerfs aren't great but he won't be dropping a tier.
@ 144
Well, I understand why they would nerf him. If you've ever seen a good El Fuerte, a focus into RSF into mix-up into another RSF opportunity almost always guarantees a win. What I don't understand is why they would base their nerfs on only high level play of a few key players. Fuerte has low health, low attack (without RSF and even with is debatable). It's got nothing to do with them hating anyone.
Sim's normals don't need to be nerfed, he's had those normals with the exception of the knee since the old days. All the knee adds is a real high damaging anti-air normal. He just needed a damage reduction and that's what happened.
People who complain about El Fuerte's RSF being easy have never played as El Fuerte.
Other than the wake up nerf... he is a JAGUAR BEAST!!
!!Jaga-Beest!!
I really hope with all these changes that, consoles don't get screwed by not getting this. Seems to me it could be a whole new purchase of a game instead of DLC, but..."too assume is too.... yada yada yada
@135: The main point of Dhalsim's game is to keep your opponent out. Now he's able to hold his own far away and up close? I don't think that's balanced, especially with the majority of the cast getting nerfed or the changes having almost no real effect.
I think Capcom isn't really looking at the major issues in the game. Dhalsim gets a buff, while El Fuerte, Ibuki and Seth get nerfed? By my count, that's one upper tier characters getting buffed and three mid-low tier characters getting nerfed. I understand this isn't a complete list, but I feel Capcom really didn't try to balance the game as much as they could have.
@146 Robbing a bank is'nt easy either, but should criminals be punished differently between those that are successful and those that aren't? The point is they are cheating the system and to those patient enough it still gives them a unesssary edge over other people even really good people, same with the kick hands for Gen. My problem is that Capcom is too freakin lazy to give them something to justify the nerf, it's usually some meaningless damage nerf or buff like the increase to 350 for the st.Kick for Bison, I would'nt have paid much attention to
I know how to do the cr.FP into legs combo with Chun Li, if they get rid of that (No notes saying) i'd be mad, but I would also understand.
I love all this bitching and moaning.
The reality is that most of you crying about the nerfs were bandwaggoners from the beginning. It doesn't change squat. You'll just jump to another high tier character in AE anyway. You're just salty b/c you gotta put some work into learning a new character.
So tell me again why bison needed a zoning nerf..... the only people who needed that are the ones who jump mindlessly around and don't like being punished for their stupidity. cr lk into light scissors needed to be changed? why for people who cant handle the pressure? i don't use u2 but i can see why the people who do are pissed. now they can't mash off an ultra to punish the mashed fireballs. people who don't understand obviously don't use bison.
Dont think any of these characters got hit hard. Adons knock down time got nerfed. Bisons ultra 2 is charged now, it was way 2 easy against projectile characters, plus it was full screen. I saw that coming from a mile away. I stayed with ultra 1. Didnt find ultra 2 to be that usefull. Thawk is going to be interesting now. Especially when he can do his backwards condor dive now. With a super, ultra range buff. Dhlasim looks unchanged, only with a minor super nerf and the ability to crmp x 2 into special. Dont know about Akuma?? Akuma ex hurricane nerf, no runaway hurricane kick tactics or dives, dont understand shp teleport into ultra 2??? Canceble ultra 2 to teleport?? Not sure if this fits Akumas game. A decent ssf4 ae change. But my el fuerte?? y capcom y???
Ummmm..... So whats up with any new character announcements? Is there going to be any more ? Or was Yun/Yang , Evil Ryu, and Akuma going to be the only ones? Also, doesn't this game get released in Japan on the 18 th of this month? O.o
I wonder when we will learn more news other than just than the nerfs / buffs that existing characters have recieved. Not that I am ungrateful for this news, but was kinda hoping to hear more about possible inclusions of other characters. Well....... I guess we shall see soon enough. Lets hope Elena is still in the running!!!!
Bisons pressure game is intense. Had a feeling they would nerf it alittle.
I think dhlasims buffs are solid. Dhlasim mainers had alot of trouble against aggressive shotos. Now hes able to go on the offensive while still being able to push them back. Hes a more dominating threat. Just look at that french cammy rage video on dhlasim. Give him a medic. His streaching days are over. Had no chance against cammy.
@118 &120
Thats the biggest problem with the new street fighters, capcom is goin totally out of there way to make the game as scrub friendly as possible without makeing it smash bros. Its obivious that this game isnt balanced at the tournament level since characters that in no way dominate are getting handed down a bunch of nerfs ie cammy,abel,elf,blanka etc. Capcom is just geting there patch notes from online message boards and playing the game just feels like a waste. Ill wait for mvc3 but im scared of what they will do with it, and then theres net play to deal with and in a game that moves that fast the slightest slowdown means droped combos are eating random supers. until then ill keep with the hdr which at the moment is the best sf game out.
@155
Dude dhalsim has every game mechanic on his side(dont tell me the big stages,option selects and floaty jumps dont help him), he doesnt need any help. If he doesnt have any trouble with agressive characters then perpare for him to take over the dam game come ae. He needs to suck in close to balance out the fact that his limbs hit from alittle less then full screen. If u want to improve his inside game u need to make serious cut backs on his range(like fierce only goes hlaf screen). It doesnt matter if cammy rocks him, because he can turn around and lame out majority of the game almost for free(zangief,honda etc say hi). But again capcom goes ahead and favors more turtle game play. Black ops just looks better and better with each ae update.
Raising jaguar is a joke; it is not like a regular srk. all of them are too weak and can be beaten by anything
I was not expecting any changes in j.k. because at least it's safe on block against some characters, and it is a little fast. I would have liked a trade at least since j.k. can be easy countered (but that's adon)
now I hope there are some surprises like connecting an ultra after the super (wall boounce) and perform the combo at 0.20 sec (that's why i bought this game)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0M1rG...
@159
u know every character isnt meant to have a freakin dp that beats everything like the shotos right?
@158
u see, thats why hdr is a better game, people like u dont play it. There is only 1 character that is considered gay and thats cause he is offically broken(akuma), everything else is 100% legit and retards like u would be laughed at for complaining. BUt for sf4 u people are the target audience so whenever u dont know how to do something capcom comes in and nerfs it and gives u srk shortcuts.
I don't even know why Bison players are complaining. Please try maining WORSE characters than Bison that got nerfed out. Try maining Seth, Fuerte, Blanka, Vega and whoever else that got nerfed. We're just gonna all have to accept that every good tool a character had is being taken out.
Will this make the game more balanced? I don't know
Is everybody going to be much weaker than they were? Yes
Hmm... Funny most Bisons I face are smart enough not to abuse EX Psycho Crusher on wake-up guess #158 still loses to them as he throws fireballs lol. The only thing I hated was the headstomp that remains unchanged.
@ 159. Ur a joke. Rising jaguar is a good anti air. Invincibility, juggles and combo opportunites.? R u serious right now. Get ur adon facts right before u judge.
Wow...Bison got raped. So gay.
T. Hawk got nothing he needed.
Adon...I guess got better...
Akuma gets demon divekick, c.LP, cl.HP xx Tele xx Ultra 2 as hitconfirm and a better MP srk while sacrificing EX tatsu damage and air tatsu escape. Not bad. :)
Dhalsim just took damage nerfs and got a better EX flame. Okay changes.
Overall, these changes range from blah to stupid.
@163
makeing good characters worst doesnt help the game as a whole. ANd all the other nerfs u mention are the rason why i droped ssf4. But it doesnt matter what the nerf, as long as ryu isnt nerfed nobody the bulk of the casuals dont care.
Sim overall I think needed a damage nerf anyway. Happy to hear Bison's pressure got slightly nerfed. This could mean that Makoto has a fighting chance against that insane lk scissor lk scissor st. Hk or mk repeat pressure. Now it means that after the pushback ppl might be able to counter attack him and get out of the corner sooner. Not much of a real big change but I figure it won't hurt Bison in the longer run anyway. Hmm no comment on T. Hawk for me as it was all good news that he needed. As far as Adon goes......his rising Jaguar is a decent anti-air but definitely not any better than a decent simply because it gets the job done. Besides he doesn't need a SHORYUKEN type buff to it. Though I will admit that even grabs beat it most of the time if time right. Hearing that his normals got buffed will definitely make him more alphaish and more footsie based than anything. Glad he doesn't get up faster anymore. I got tired of trying to safe jump on him only to have him get up and just barely dash under me.
@160
AMEN!!!!!!!
thank you for explaining to these scrubs how a real SF game is. too bad they're all little 12 year-olds who arent mature enough to understand basics and will keep complaining about everything until they get their way.
think of it this way Bison players. pretend like your playing vanilla again. and stop complaining about a damn video game. what are you losing other than a few matches. if you really take this game seriously, then be a top-teir whore and keep switching chars until you win a GF tourny. until then just play a game for what it is.
It's funny you bring up HDR as a non scrub friendly version of street fighter when it it's self has been through the nerf/buff ringer.
Just play the original which is also a nerf/buff version of prior versions.
It's like you people are willingly dense.
@#104 Jerm
Comparing chun li kikosho always being motion when she had it only in 3s and ssf4 outside the vs series. While if bison was in 3s he would of had motions supers too just like everyone else and U2 started as a motion. Then to say he "always" had charge motions then to give >2< separate series where that wasnt the case. You dont do a good job being fair in comparing the two.
Also sayin it would be ridiculous to change chun's U2 cause thats how its always been, but bison always was scissor kick pressure spammer but they are trying to break him away from it finally. Granted i think both bison and chun are brain dead characters with cheesy ways to land their U2.
@163
yea keep taking away everyone good tools is only gonna make the game boring. i use about half of the cast so in general this is is gonna suck for me as far as fun wise. Personally seth changes are better for my playstyle as i dont play run away.
@#166
Finally someone else sees that T.hawk didnt get anything he needed really, and the poor guy is still like the only person that cant fadc any of his moves. Sheesh even gief can fadc his lariat and green hands, hakan can fadc his slide into U2 in certain conditions. Would it be so wrong to be able to fadc his Hawks Dp move into U2 atleast to combat the terrible hit box or allow it grab people juggled from ex condor spire. Cant even land it after a focus crumple either from my experiences.
@ Lynx_id
"akuma, still very powerfull the tatumaki scape? he has that teleport move, he dont need buffs"
So Akuma having a teleport means he doesn't need buffs?
Forward teleport is easily punished and backward teleport is easily punished by some characters so i don't know what the f*ck you are on about. Akuma's teleport is a very situational and character dependent move.
How doesn't Ken and Deejay need buffs? The reason they buff characters is so that that the game is more balanced and to close the gap between the characters. They make the worse characters better and the better ones worse thus making the game more balanced so scrubs like you won't cry over one character being "overpowered".
Chun wasn't "okay" in vanilla, she was middle/top tier, i don't know what game you were playing.
Learn to speak f*cking proper english scrub.
@ Akuma changes :
We already can do s.HP xx Teleport xx U2 ...
And ffs what happened to SRK fadc U2 ?
A crappy fake change for a useless ultra, a nerf to Ex Tatsu...
His vortex isn't close to remotely safe since Super, we still got 850hp/stun, and still have a crap stun damage on moves (even if I land all my vortex during 15-20sec, opponnent is stunned with about 5% health left, cheers ...)
I hope translators missed something
@SFMaster10
are you saying it because you see top players do it or because you can do it?? because those are two different things. do you even use adon to know him very well?
the only reliable anti air adon has is his hard kick rj and that's only when you do it a little late. any comments?
@ 175. As a matter of fact...I do use adon...he is my manin actually...rank A+ to be exact. I'm none as the black gamerbee So don't try to make me feel dumb. He has many anti air besides hard kick rj...which works very well. Ex rj works..far and close hard punch works...med kcik works. So maybe u shud try and use him before u make dumbass comments..try practicin wit him..&& if u think I'm all talk..PSN:ray908...I'll show u. Any comments.? Thought so...ha
well "NONE" as the black gamerbee, manin, is already dumb! learn english first dumbass you are so stupid and retarded that if you were twice as smart you would still be stupid
you can be in any rank and it doesn't prove anything other than you have nothing in your life
you are not worth my time
@#178
Come on man if you are gonna insult him... don't call him a dumbass, stupid 2x and retarded all in one sentence. Redundancy at its best.
there is a lot 'o hate flyin around here. wonder what character the bison noobies will flock to next. will it be back to rog?
Well "mjcd" I didn't kno spelling had anything to do with street fighter lol. Like #180 said, insult me correctly lol. But yea...if I'm not worth ur time then I guess u won't comment back. But I believe ur mad that I proved my point with adon && u didn't lol. Wack ass. U still want to continue.?
Diagonal based Super motions (which will inevitable replace Bison's current Ultra2 motion) are easy to pull off consistently on the ps3 D-pad, but I can see this being a nuisance for the 360 camp. Having to play as Vega myself and having to pull off his Bloody High Claw on the 360's analog stick felt ackward but was doable. Hopefully, that one "I'm a pad user" excuse was coming from anyone else other than a DS3 pad user.
@170
the problem with that is he will be worst then he was in vanilla. People act like bison got so much better in super, HE DIDNT. The only change was ultra 2 and pyscho crusher(this was needed since the vanilla verison was useless) and dmg nerfs. All the same traps and setups work in vanilla. With sagat geting nerfed he left a big whole in the tiers and other characters filled the gap. Nerfing his pressure game(the only reason to use him) will end up hurting his overall style and have more bison players playing lame(dont we have enough turtleing?), the funny thing is even if u sit there and just block after 2 scissors u can jump out/reversal so that nerf is uncalled for, again capcom listens to the casuals when it comes to game balance. Capcom isnt doin nothing to help this game, the horrible mechanics havent been addressed and alot of the low tier characters didnt get the improvements that they needed(ie t hawk).
I dont understand, with the tournament scene capcom should be flooded with match up data/results and they should know whats overpowered and what needs to be improved. Seriously now, some of these characters have been around for 20 years, how can they still not get there design right.
@184: You're the only person I've seen complaining this much about it.
If you don't like the game, think it's broken, or want ridiculously long juggle combos, go wait for MvC3 and leave this discussion to the grownups.
@185
so grown ups want the lame turtle mechanics? dont understand the game and want everything nerfed? want a 50 character cast with 25+ characters going unused?
Honestly, grown ups play turbo/hdr/3's, but nice try. Because i never mentioned in any of my posted long juggle combos or anything like that.
@ 186
I agree with almost everything you say. In my opinion, this is one of the worst fighting games I ever played mostly because I do not like the total defensive style that dominates this game. I have never seen a fighter that relies almost solely on defense. That and add the user-friendliness of this game such as option selects, auto-correct, etc., and it creates a very boring game.
With that said, I play mostly because my friends love this game and I LOVE the characters. I have history with these characters because I grew up with street fighter.
When we moved from Vanilla to Super, Capcom did it right, they improved a lot upon the game and made it so people didn't just pick Ryu and Sagat. But now, with the changes to AE, I feel as if they are taking a step back.
Mainly I just can't agree with why they improve upon character's defensive capabilities but nerf their offense. It just baffles me. It's almost as if they just want to keep this game as slow as possible... and maybe that's why this is the most popular fighting game. Because it is SLOW and USER-FRIENDLY.
Personally, this what I think is. If something is not broken, don't fix it. Sagat was broken in Vanilla, so he get a bit nerfed. That was fine.
But now, it's gotten to the point that no character has some type of tool that breaks this game. Instead of making characters worse, why not just improve upon them if possible and necessary. That means, keep all the high tiers high. You don't need to change anything about them, but only give improvements to the low tiers to make them better. This way, the weaker characters catch up to the strong.
I really think there are a lot of stupid people working at Capcom. Because they make some dumb decisions.
Balrog does not get any free wins. people just need to stop playin like idiots learn the matchup. simple.
@188: Pretty sure Capcom knows more about the game than everybody else combined, seeing how they built the game from scratch.
When you change one single thing for one move for one character, that one change interacts with every other characters moves, which then have to be changed/adjusted and so on and so forth. It's an endless domino effect where a change creates a change creates a change etc. I'm amazed the game is as balanced as it is with so many variables.
"You don't need to change anything about them, but only give improvements to the low tiers to make them better. This way, the weaker characters catch up to the strong."
That sounds nice in theory but there's zero chance that's how game development actually works.
@ 190
I disagree, I'm not saying change a character drastically. But minute detail changes will not make a huge domino effect that you speak of unless you mess around with a characters hitbox and/or hittable box. The thing that Capcom changes most of the time is frame data and recovery times. Just making minor tweaks to those numbers will not break the game unless you make someone too good (i.e Vanilla Sagat).
Since Cammy is my main, I'll talk of her. From Vanilla to Super, her moveset barely changed. She could still do all her shenanigans that she does now. But the one thing that did change to make her a much better character was the fact that her jump lk turned into an overhead. Now it gives her a lot more options. And people have something else to think about when facing her.
Just like Justin Wong talks about with Makoto, there are little things that she needs to make her a better character. So why not give those weaker characters those little things to have a fighting chance.
Also, I think one of the reasons that developers actually have to change every character in some way is to justify bringing out another game.
@ 190
The point is, there are ways to give little things to weaker characters without breaking the game. That's why you test a product before release. If something you add is too good, take it out or weaken it a bit.
I think everybody has common sense. It doesn't take rocket science to look at something and realize that it is either fair or unfair, good or bad. The only people that say something is fair which clearly isn't is someone who is a fan of whatever it is that's unfair.
Case in point, no Vanilla Sagat player complained about being overpowered because he was their main.
@187
yea the ae will be a step back. Super 4 is in a good place right now, there is no super powerful characters that dominate. All we needed with ae was buffs/adjustments for the lower tiers and adjustments to game mechanics. Just look at some of the stuff capcom is doin, they went out of there way to adjust back dashs and they tryed to nerf well know runaway tactics which tells me that they want to put a dent in the turtle game but for some reason they refuse to go after the obivious things like crouch teching, option selects, reversal windows etc.
Again, hdr is the best sf game out right now. Look at the tiers for that game or better yet the tournament results. So far every character was atleast placed in a major(i think maybe blanka and thawk havent) and that says ALOT for the game when someone can take gief(hes supposed to be bottom tier but good ones are the scariest players out there) and win majors. we will never get that in sf4 if they keep with the nerfs.
Does anyone know will we get the arcade edition on console after it comes out in arcade cause I know that's in a couple days... Does anyone have any ideas about it
Good Bison rebuild if you ask me. Easier to punish his crouching light kick, damage adjustment to Standing Heavy kick...those r his main annoying features. + the light kick scissor situation which was also addressed. Good job capcom!
on another note you just buffed Adon, which I dont approve! (it doesnt matter if i do)
Please use proper grammar, people. It is EXTREMELY difficult to follow your comments.
That being said, I'm stoked for the update! I agree with most of the changes and my Guy is getting a much-needed boost!
Get hype!
Condor spires motion needs to get fixed. If you are walking forward and then condor spire it registers an srk because of the retarded shortcut motion.
@184
i never said he was better in SSF4 (although his PC and U2 are good tools that are RIGHTLY deserved), all i said was because of the top 3 in Vanilla, Bison players will feel like there is a slight resemblance to his Vanilla counter-part. again im not saying what they did to Bison was fair (or to most of the cast for that matter), but at least hes not low-teir like Hawk or Makoto. as a matter of fact i hope Bison does become low-teir. that way when i win i can brag about my skills. when i see Gen and Makoto and Hawk players winning, those are the guys who deserve respect for their skills.
oh and btw for all those morons who played Bison because he was "top-teir" in Super, I hope you stick with him when AE comes out. otherwise your all losers.
is there a website where i wont read the words cheap and broken and spam?
@197
good rebuild on Bison? please go learn some SF.
@200
when did i say that? Ill rent marvel and if it follows the same sf4 super scrub friendly formula i simply send it back to gamefly and stick with hdr.
I think ghettoperu is a badass bison and balrog player. I played free1up. Hes alright. My el fuerte pounded him alot. Go play ghetto and you ll see what i mean. Also with my balrog, hes way to free.
Ghettos links are on point. free got nothing on em.
I think thawk could be buffed just alittle bit better. No fadc. I mean gief, thawk and hakan have it. Opens his options alittle more.
DAMN Mr Clack your good. I hate sore losers. Just learn the match up and move on. So u know what i mean.
only crappy 1 dimensional players are bitching about these changes.any1 who drops bison just cuz u cant spam lk scissors is a fake ass bison player."requires skills due to adjustments" scrubs and tier whores need not apply.capcoms direction seems to be if a move or tactic is dominating and or excessively spammable it got tweaked so that the player has to think instead of sitting on that crutch.ie.cammy tkcs or bisons lk scissors
?? RAVEN what the hell are you talking?? Anyway Bisons footsie game is beast. If you rely on his kIcks alone then somethings wrong with you. Mix it up with standing punchs to low kicks to special. Im always trying to bust up with 7 8 9 hit combos with bison. Unless your against shryuken type spammers then low kicks just to be safe. But you got shk, and it works. Also being patient helps to. Then you got your grabs, but people cry about getting grabbed. If you cant see a grab coming then you need help.
Then your head stomp or his flying psyco hands to normals then special.
I still dont think thawk will be played as much. just my opinion. imma still stick with my el fuerte, but im going to be more character friendly. hakan, guy, makoto, deejay. i just liked playing with gief and el fuerte back in vanilla. and super but i mixed it up some. havent even gave cvip or ibuki a try. completed there trials but never used them much. still rooting for rmika!!!!!!!!
im pretty sure Adon's close s.MP is cancelable in Super, i hope they did not make it un-cancelable :/ probably just an error. i heard they made it(s.MP) force stand, but thats not listed... another thing i am now wondering about.
Looking forward to reading about Adon