The latest Japanese Super Street Fighter 4 Arcade Edition blog has been posted. This one details changes made to Guile, Seth, Dee Jay and Hakan.
to caruga: It does and now me feel saddened that Guile got nerfed in the Special and Ultra department. It's gonna make a lot of Guile players (myself included) upset.
Looks like guile players will have to be more aggressive with his flash kick and certain defensive options nerfed. Will be interesting to see what's in store for hakan.
Alright now I'm ready for adon nerfs, the guy takes wayyyy too much damage with his specials, add combos to that and its a little crazy.
Reduce back knuckle. GREAAaaaat. Reduce all Flash kick.. greeaaaaat. reduce all special and Ultra and more Frame on start up on Ultra 2,,,, Greaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat.
DAMN go right ahead and Reduce sonic boom to 20 damage..
lp,mp,Hp all does only 50 damage. in the first place. this is CRAPPPPPPPPPP
Nothing but nerfs for Guile. I have a feeling that Daigo won't bother picking up Guile anymore. About Seth, it would seemed he would play really differently now. I'm not sure if Capcom nerfed or buffed him. It's more like this Seth is not the same as SSF4, but instead, a whole new character.
@10 Not really a new character, just a somewhat different playstyle. Like Zangief when he got the green hand in super turbo. Or Chun when she got the fireball.
COME ON! Light Kick, Medium Kick and Hard Kick Flash Kicks damage reduced, Sonic Hurricane's damage reduced. What's up with that!
Seth is now Seth once more especially since now it makes me want to try him.
Well looks like Gulie is more stun dependent now which is cool since all frame data stayed the same, which will be interesting to see if Daigo sticks with him after the changes are in place.
Now Seth looks like great changes, while it looks like basically nerfs it's basically changing how you play the character kinda like if they gave Ken's MK(and thus Kara) a shorter range
I am praising at the Guile nerfs.
I am a Bison player and it is so ridicuous how badly guile can lame out Bison.
(Bison hate mail in 5...4...3...2...1...)
they should nerf guile some more the problem is the recovery on booms being 2 fast they kept it the same hmmm i dunno guile should have below average health because his keep away playstyle considering booms are impossible to jump 29frames recovery it takes atleast 36 frames to jump in
At least with that removed, Seth can actually be more tolerable this time around. I guess CAPCOM did listen to feedback this time around.
its funny how they just nerf and don't give him any tools in return. How is this gonna help out his crap matches against viper, fuerte, akuma, abel, etc? They should make his links easier. Hardly anyone will go lp-->mp hitconfirm into flash kick because the lp-->mp link is so risky. In general, linking into flash kick (except from a clean jump in) w/o using meter to cancel is risky. And now that Guile is gonna have less meter that option is less valuable. Speaking of which, less meter could potentially leave with NO get out of jail free cards. Might not be able to do a safe flash kick cancel when pressured like crazy. And in this game you NEED such a get out of jail free card esp with Guile because Guile can get pressured by crazy mixup games such that even the Guile players with the best concentration will eventually break. Anyone who says Guile was too overpowered probably doesnt know proper rushdown and crossup game. Once you get Guile on knockdown, the tables can really turn.
@30,if you ask me Bison doesn't have that bad against Guile if he sticks 90 percent strictly to safe scissor kicks and fully exploiting the crossup game and pretty much NEVER doing psycho crushers like some fools continue doing. A Bison player needs guts more than strategy to beat Guile.
hey ill be the first to admit Guile had some really good matchups.
I just wish instead of ONLY making him weaker, they should make him weaker against his good matchups, but give him some sort of tools for the other guys he struggles with. Hell, make him offensive and i suggested a way to do that - make his links easier (so a guile player can be more confident in attacking)
however the changes to reverse spin cake is a step in the offensive direction. If you don't believe me, watch how emg dieminion has been using that move recently and how he's been going all out offensive with it.
well now I'm happy to see guile being nerfed, as I predicted they only reduce his damage and well his meter gain reduce too, I think thats is good cuz that sonic boom is almost safe at least wont gain meter just to spam and its ok now, now I really want to use him
now I only want the vega's ST to be a good reversal and I will be happy xD
No matter how hard I try... (T.T)
Guile Sonic Booms me to the point of suicide. It's definitely a 7-3 match-up in Guile's favor, and when he's in the corner, it goes down to a 6-4 match-up.
Even then, it's not like it's cake to get him in the corner. Sure Bison's throws are a really good zoning tool, but it's a little hard to get close to Guile when Sonic booms are punching me repeatedly in the face.
Other cons:
-Scissor kicks are also limited, both normal and EX because of that freakin' sonic boom recovery time.
-Bison's high arc on his jump gives Guile adequate time to react with c.HP, flashkick, s.HP, U1, U2 or an air throw.
-EX Psycho crusher gets past Sonic Booms, but it's still in Guiles favor because of :Recovery time of booms and Bison wastes meter to get close for an attack.
-Headstomp gets owned by guile walking back and D Reverse gets owned by anti airs. It's a waste to even bother with the EX versions.
Overall... One of the most horrible match-ups in SF history.
Bison should have killed Charlie AND Guile...
Man, I don't mean to write a hateful comment but s**t, you guys are really hard headed. How many times does Seth Killian have to say, "Don't jump the gun guys!"? Even eventhubs warned:
Keep in mind that this is not a complete list of changes for these characters, and more things that have been altered will be discovered with time.
THEY'RE NOT THE ONLY CHANGES. There are others. Considering that Ono is the biggest troll in the world, he's probably choosing to shower certain things to get a reaction. For all we know, Guile (the one I see most people are angry about atleast in this thread) got better hiboxes for ALL his move, making him even deadlier in the poking/footsies game. I mean I can understand an initial reaction but all the "WOW ONLY NERFS" is ridiculous. There are more changes. Wait for the game, play it, study it, THEN make a judgement.
Sheesh!
Guile being a charge makes his links amongst the easiest in the game, not really sure how that would make guile's more aggressive in any way/
Any changes for Hakan and DeeJay?? Maybe not posted yet.
I played Bison in Vanilla. Call me a tier whore.
Most of the things people complain about with Bison, well HEY! Newsflash:
- He had the same s.HK in Vanilla (And it was actually STRONGER in vanilla than it is now)
- He also had the scissor kicks too (Which were also STRONGER in Vanilla too. Also could not be punished on block)
The new things he got in Super that helped were Ultra 2 and a better psycho crusher (The one he could do cross-ups with in ST, but then again he was still mid tier in that game). The things I see some people complain about with Bison make me laugh. You get pissed now, but why weren't you pissed in Vanilla? Oh yeah... You were playing Sagat.
Tier WHORES
@39
ya, i hear you. While I still disagree that its THAT bad, I understand. I play Bison too and I looked at your list and I agree with pretty much all of it (just disagree with conclusion). However, all of the best japanese bisons I've seen, when playing aggressive do pretty well against Guiles. Im too lazy to post links, maybe another time. But keep in mind that Bison only has 1 deadly matchup, and I think the rest is a relatively fair and balanced matchup sheet to say the least and not to mention he has stuff like ex-psycho, teleport, etc that gets him out of pressure situations when things get bad (guile doesn't have that luxury).
@40
Ya I didn't mean to jump the gun at all. Just making some SPECULATIVE criticism. I think its not too unhealthy to do some of that, as long we don't take any speculations here too seriously
GOod points guys.
Sakura, Zangief and Makoto were mega boosted, Cammy, Guile and Dan were ultra nerfed. Minor changes to Sagat for the good and to Seth for the bad.
I predict a Zangief in A-S tier, Makoto to B and Cammy, Guile for C-D tier. Sagat could also rank S after his damage increases.
Glad Guile got nerfed. Now I can stop feeling guilty for playing a top tier character as my secondary.
Although I've played him since World Warrior. He used to be my main until I switched to Gen in super, but I never mained Remy in 3s, I mained Sean and seconded Twelve.
Anyway, it's good to see more news.
The most significant change to Guile isn't the damage, it's the Sonic Boom meter gain. Reduces the ability for him to Flash Kick -> FADC so often. Makes it harder for him to respond with EX Sonic Boom to Focus Attacks if he doesn't have a down charge.
Going to get Top 8 at the next AE tournament with Hakan now. Thanks.
The real guile nerf that was needed was a nerf to his c.hp, which is a one button srk. If they made that move have limited use, then guile would be forced to guess on air throws for AA or use flashkicks. That would make it would be a more lenient guessing game to get in on Guile (because guile would have to take risks, too), rather than Guile's opponent having to take all of the risks to get in.
And, with the removal of j.hp, Guile vs Bison is the new worst match up in the game, now that Seth vs Gief is gone. This matchup has actually gotten harder with each new SF4 version.
Hakan's buffs will enable him to spread the pride of Turkish oil wrestling further...
TOO BAD BISON IS OWNING MOST OF YOUR COMPANY'S SHARES AND IS BANGING YOUR WIFE! BETTER LUCK NEXT TIME, BITCH!
>:D
@yode
Get at me dawg, gamertag is Cap- Wait a minute.
My break down of this week:
Gulie has been changed to a more stun heavy character with all his frame tricks still intact I see slight alteration especially with Meter Gain change to how people play him, I'm still expecting some Warahk type rushdowns just more playing to stun.
Seth has been changed to a more unique character that needs to be relearned, though I (and others) wish he'd be change to have more taden related moves. The changes they made make him seem like he'll have to played less like other characters and be more own his own level/style, that life/stun increase will greatly help that happen.
Dee Jay is overall better, while not going his ST root they have given him better tools and changed him to be something of a threat in a very real way.
Those Hakan changes looking pretty meaty especially the oil slide into Oil shower follow up as well as Adjustments to make the 360s feel like SPDs. Giving him a decent poke,more options when oiled,adjustmens for oil slide, a few cancelable moves makes him what I'd consider a SF4 dan type threat in that if you're caught sleeping on him you will get steam rolled
@48 You must be crazy if you think Zangief is going to be high tier with his nerfs.
DEE JAY: It seems like he got some MASSIVE buffs. Considering he was already pretty good in SSF4, he might become pretty NASTY in AE. I hope SSF4 Guiles won't switch to AE Dee Jay! (laugh)
GUILE: Nerfing something about his Sonic Boom was one of the most obvious and REASONABLE things to do. He will no longer be able to sit on SB only - especially against other projectile characters (who'll build meter faster now). It looks Guile will have to rely more on his normals now.
@67
As much as I HATE vs. Guile, I have to admit that he needs that Sonic Boom recovery time. The way his character is made favors turtle/defensive players. If he had standard Ryu-Hadoken recovery time, then he would be horrible because the charge time for his projectiles would make it that much worse.
Hmmmm things look bad for my Guile game... Glad I got Cody.
Capcom can't be so stupid as to nerf the damage on an already low damage character and not atleast give him some more friendly normals as a result? I mean, can we finally make it so that cr lp is +5 on hit now??
If he's going to rely on stun more, can he have a couple more combo friendly normals??? Seriously??? I mean it says something if you nerf a character that can barely threaten seth with his damage, and other characters who have bad health give him a hard time too.
+5 on cr lp is really all i want, and it's totally fair. People whining that he needed a nerf are going to be pretty angry that he's still beating them down in the next version.
which guile player is going to want to download an arcade edition patch with nerfs like that, jeez
ok, meter nerfs on guile are fine. but damage nerfs...really?!
was it really necessary to nerf his flash kick damage? the thing already is useless as cross ups, has like a 50% chance at getting canceled or trading with a jump in, and has insane recovery time.
flash kick is absolutely useless, which is half of his special moves.
one second, lemme spend an extra minute for my 2nd meter,ok lets utilize this NERFED Flashkick FADC NERFED U2, oh wait, damage reduction on both, OH WAIT, startup might be too slow to connect!!! F THIS GAME
@78
He got better normals, exactly. Guiles recovery on his flashkick should be reduced abit...or even if they don't do that, can it PLEASE be made so that his cr lp is more combo friendly??
Guiles ultra was already one of the lowest dmaaging, and the combo it had was already unimpressive in terms of damage. To compensate for further damage reduction, how about combo-ability gets fixed?
Funny thing is all the scrubs are still going to be beaten by Guile if they couldn't figure him out now, it's just going to be longer and more frustrating for both parties.
GG capcom, i hope you aren't this foolish.
@84 Poor Guile players have to work for their victories now, I almost feel sorry for them. fixed
Gief ain't buffed why do people keep saying that.
ex_ein Actually if u do it earlier, the opponent lands behind, learn guile before you speak, GOD I HATE NOOBS
@94 your an idiot he is speaking when the changes apply how about you learn to read instead of whinning
Kind of glad guile got taken down a peg, but only cause I don't like him. I can totally see people would be upset with his changes.
Looks like hakan just became competitive- step low into light slide; you could make some quite long special cancel combos now, without burning meter on crisco combos.
I am very interested to see the "new" seth and hakkan in action.
@96
Wow, bison only has 4 (incl. Zang) negative match ups? And you are complaining?
6-4 is not a screwing. 6-4 is how makoto players live.
Bisons ultra 2 wasnt even useful against guile...
I hope they reduced guiles damage to increase combo potential, thatd be the best guile yet
Saw it coming. His damage was real good. His U2 was real good. I'm ok with everything here, except his meter gain nerf. He really needs all the meter he can get. He's my 3rd so I'm not too bothered by it. Still that meter gain nerf could be a problem in the future. Other than that, I agree with those changes. Wonder what more changes they did to him? Guess we'll find out.
Saw it coming. His damage was real good. His U2 was real good. I'm ok with everything here, except his meter gain nerf. He really needs all the meter he can get. He's my 3rd so I'm not too bothered by it. Still that meter gain nerf could be a problem in the future. Other than that, I agree with those changes. Wonder what more changes they did to him? Guess we'll find out.
His damage wasnt very good, all his bad matchups were characters with low health, plus abel. It's like people havent even played the game
I didn't see anything about DeeJay's Far Standing Hard Kick being an overhead. Anyone know if that is still in there?
@ 107
His damage was very good. Especially since he can keep majority of the cast out so easily.
And all his bad matchups are against those that could either get through his fireballs (abel, ibuki, akuma) or those that didn't need to get through his fireballs (dhalsim, seth)
there's only one timing to do flashkick >> fadc >> dash forward U2 u nub, learn to play Guile before you respond trashjaw
@109
Nah people are just ignorant and don't know how to play. If was damage was so good seth and akuma wouldn't walk on him. He does less damage than he did in vanilla already, pretty sure he didn't have overpowering strength there.
Tier lists are such cr4p, it's all about the user, just adapt people
@109
Go look at the frame data if you think guile does good damage. You will see he does less damage on average with his attacks than someone like Ryu.
To everyone who thinks damage nerfs on a few of view moves is going to make him suck or have to work for his wins...prepare to be disappointed. If you look, you'll notice that all of his utility is still there. He's still going to be able to FK > FADC > U2 and all the other stuff people complain about. He is still going to be able to sit back behind sonic booms and laugh at your lack of patience.
He actually got buffed in the utility department. His b+hk is going to be a great buff for him in footsies games.
Stay free everyone for not having the knowledge to see guile hasn't changed.
damn you guys act like every single guile player in the world turtle..shxt have you ever heard of geom modinside , nuckledudu or aceEirin?? and i know theres alot more offensive guiles on here.so stop disrespecting all the otehr guile players and "now we have to work for our win"? when didnt we work for it? how many times do u see a guile win a big event and how many times do you see a ryu or a ruphus?
Finally Guile is getting taste of his on medicine got tired of turtling Guiles with Sonic Boom and Flash Kick now Hakan can have a bigger advantage so everything is for me though I kinda like and hate Seths change but I might like the old Seth because his hitbox of Head Stompss and Dive Kick had a bigger hitbox but now its a bit shorter overall some are good some are bad but not for my Hakan
I am a little iffy on the Seth stuff.... taking out the jumping away stretchy arms, is that what made him cheap *sarcasm*
Seth takes skill to play as, you can't just pick him up and expect to win at all.
One wrong mistake and that's a chunk of you health gone.
I don't know how to feel on these changes. I am glad he has more health.... but at the same time, my toe taps, and dive kick getting nerf'd pisses me off.
As a seth player im glad to get rid of his stretchy arm. People would complain about it all the time and in reality its priority sucked and real seth players know his mix up is where its at. In my opinion he got buffed,wouldnt of minded a little more health but ill take what i can get.
"Sonic Boom's meter gain at startup is halved, and we adjusted his meter gaining rate through the match."
So only the first half of the match he gains less sonic boom? I dont really get it?
Guile players shouldnt QQ so much. Considering so many of the cast got nerfs, did you really think Guile was gonna stay the same? Ok, he got some damage reduced and for the first half of the match, he doesnt gain much meter for sonic boom, but at least he's still played the same... Meaning the real big change to Guile is you're gonna have to lame out a few more attacks to win... Not that big of a deal.
@120 sonic booms recovery is so much better than any other projectile. I would take that over meter build any day
Also lol at seths nerfs. Nerf Seth unusable and I will still lol. Take away both arms and give him two stubs and I will still lol.
@115 I understand wat u are saying but most guile do turtle(not all) also there is guile placing top at tournaments.you said u see alot of ryu's(who i main) and he has got nerfed everytime there is changes cause of people complaing just cuz u happen to see great players play those charcters mean not a damn thing cause they dont win all the major tournaments(gamerbee,Mago,flipinochamp)I just hate when people say these people win when they got great player playing with them somebody cnt juss come up and win with them at tournaments like its free
@#123
Im assuming that if sonic booms whiffs completely you cant get much meter off it, but im sure if it lands fully the meter gain will be the same as it is now or more to keep a balance of meter gain and encourage more offensive play.
guile getting nerfs culd only mean charlie is gonna be back.
Nerfs to guile... sounds reasonable..
no huge nerfs to chun-li? wtf..
E. Honda gets huge damage nerfs.. sounds reasonable..
no huge nerfs to balrog? wtf...
It's like they pick and choose their tops.
I'd still say that they should just buff everyone so they are as good as the tops, but lowering the tops and buffing the lowers so they meet at the center is nice too. Mad props to Hakan, Makoto, Deejay, and Guy. Seems like they'll be doing better now, but damn.. why did vega get nerfed in any way? ah well.. im hoping that the ex-roll into mp into ex izuna drop is broken that way we have something to abuse outside of normals.
I don't mind the Guile nerfs. He still 10 times better than he was in vanilla.
DeeJay my secondary char getting BUFFED to HEAVEN.
Capcom is great. SF4 > SSF4 > SSF4:AE bring all welcome additions and modifications. This company always delivers!! =] SF gameplay is too good!
some people here...it's so obvious that they don't even understand the game.
all seth rejoice! the health and stun has been buffed! now if they only buffed up his walk speed a little bit, so he can be better with this new version of rush down seth.
@#123
think the second part means it generates slightly less meter on hit.
"• Sonic Boom's meter gain at startup is halved, and we adjusted his meter gaining rate through the match."
Does anyone else that all these changes are uncalled for?
I mean hell why the hell are they changing the game just for the sake of balance???
The game was already balanced, you change the low teir chars so that they can compete with the upper teir not nerf the high teir and make them just as crappy as the low tier.
I wanted to get into the game competitively but whats the point if what ever char you decide to main will get nerfed as soon as you start to place well with them
Guile is still A tier....
A good Guile player makes use of Guile's normals, anti-airs, and sonic booms for zoning (and then deciding what to do after each). As long as Guile has short recovery on booms, a slew of anti-air tactics, and fierce normals....getting in on him will be a bitch. Flash Kicks are obviously not about damage, so even a slight damage reduction should not change "how" they are to be used. Plus, Guile got an Ultra that isn't worthless in SSF4. His FADC > U2 just absolutely completes his character, good players will adapt to this changes.
Dee Jay looks awesome now, though I was looking for a faster slide...at least he gets a better fireball. I might play with him. xD
Seth will be much better, health increase = not dying as fast so you get to make more mistakes.
Overall I'm liking these changes, Dee Jay and Hakan finally got some of their deserved buffs.
Loving the Hakan Buffs, time reduce on the Oil up is what was needed and the additional buffs are just icing on the cake. Finally hakan you are a complete character! *wipes tear*
It amazes how many people are saying "Guile nerfs, glad I got or I'm switching to x character"
Really? Why did you play Guile in the first place then? Was it not because of the playstyle? Did you not play Guile because you liked his moveset? Or even the character itself?
Were you picking him only because you saw him high on the tier list, or you thought he would net you easy wins?
Removing seths jumpings arms means that capcom wants to make him an offensive character but why nerf his dive kick then? It was good in vanilla then in super they made it crap and now in AE even worse. I guess they want him to be a footsie character by buffing his normals but he needs way faster walk speed for that
why the fck are there so many scrubs on this god damn web-sight that think they know what there talking about, when in actuality about one fourth of them do.
Before Super came out, everyone was whining like little girls that guile was going to suck, and capcom wanted to make guile bottom tier, etc. Then daigo uses him at fight club and all the sudden the "guile is overpowered" started coming out.
Wait for the game to be released before you start crying. If you are worried about the tier list, then you shouldn't be using guile in the first place.
For all the good guile players, it looks like the play style will be same - which is good.
If anything, it looks like guile is going to be really good again because all his moves are intact. We'll just have to wait and see...
Deejay far standing MK was already a 2 hitter, or did they mention that due it being cancelable now. I use that to break focuses when i dont have a charge sorta like adons far FK.
Not too knowledgeable about pursuit properties, would that mean you can juggle U2 afterward on a anti air cl.fk?
Hakan trial mode links wont go in vain now hopefully, close mp> lp> step low> jab oil slide into oil up sounds like a safe way to get oiled up and positioned for a wake up game.
And f+mp canceled into oil dive feint cancel to command grab, wonder how fast hakan can cancel and recover out of his moves to play some mind games.
Also keeping most of his momentum when attack canceling his oiled dashes is gonna be great with that improved stand fierce. Im sure thats what the translation was getting at. Although dash canceling with a short threw off people timing, maybe ill be gliding into dragon punches now >_<
@ 29 guile
the fck are you smoking? guile was fcking character armor bro. seems like you need to learn how to block sht, and a character with as good a defence as guile DOESNT NEED a get out of jail free card. And guess what, those bad matchups you listed ARENT EVEN BAD FCKING MATCHUPS, they just require a little bit of knowledge on the matchup cause you cant do THE SAME EXACT SHT that you online guiles do on every other character in the game
and i didnt even play guile, and guess what? crouching light kick to medium punch ISNT HARD AT ALL.
these changes didnt ruin the good guiles, he still has great normals, great anti airs, great recovery, and they didnt even change the charge time on his booms. stop fckin crying
Its interesting looking at all these posts....buffs, nurf, increase this, decrease that..funny because in the end...(and when I say this, I'm speaking to the majority of people out there..) people are just waiting to see who who the tournament heads like Justin, Sako, Tokido, Mago, Juicebox and the Shoto ambassador himself is gonna pick..then jump on the most desirable train based on the results of the first couple tournaments to follow the new release.
Now almost all the lower tiers have been beefed, but I doubt its going to matter much to the majority. Stick to what's winning tournaments and choose who the pros use..it works! Dont bother to improve the wheel...just ride the hype till the minority out there like a Gamerbee, or Wildcat has to open our eyes and remind people there's another 20+ competitive characters out there to choose from in the game..
Only time will tell if i'll be wrong on this one...I actually hope I will be.
@148
What do you mean they aren't bad matchups? Damn people are stupid here.All Guiles matchups require knowledge PERIOD, it's always been that way, and especially in this game he's always been the thinking mans character(because he requires precision with mind games) and because you can make so few mistakes. Why do you think he's named Guile? Judging by the general amount of ignorance from people who talk about him, they probably didn't know it was a real word.
Crouching light kick to medium punch can't even link you idiot. It's not that it ruined Guile, it's that unintelligent players have more chances to luck out a win if a Guile player makes a slight miscalculation now.
Unless, the made him more combo friendly which seems to be the trend.
@bendermac:
IMO all he should have nerfed was his Sonic Booms and his air throw.
Only nerfs for Guile? that sucks. i hope all the scrubs who were whining cuz they cant play worth sh!t are sattisfied now. I guess in the end capcom will kiss A$$ after all to make crying scrubs happy so that they sell more games. FU(K YOU CAPCOM!!! FU(K YOU WORTHLESS SCRUBS!!! AND FU(K ALL THE MOTHERFU(KAS WHO COMPLAINED ABOUT GUILE!!!
seth scrubs online just fly around the whole time and abuse that jump hard punch. can't freaking get near period. so now capcom gonna buff seth?? guile, man down fierce all day. and normal moves take out 100s damage all day. so nerf is good bro.
one love
People please remember:
Guile still has really good normals - St.Fierce, C.Fierce, C.Forward are all excellent tools. Now the reverse kick in impervious to low attacks. Pair these with ridiculous recovery on his Sonic Booms. If you see a Boom coming out of his hands and immediately jump to punish, you still cant. He can recover and block in time. Add to this a REALLY powerful air throw. Excellent range and damage on that thing. All this make for a SOLID character. He seems weaker because he is not a rushdown type and his matches are useually longer and boring.
Regarding METER GAIN NERF: The article says meter gain is reduced ONLY during the BEGINNING stages. That is, when is all out of meter, it is hard to spam booms to gain meter fast. This means in the later stages, he can build meter faster. But I do not know if he can do it as fast as he can now- maybe at 70-80% speed.
AND, anyone who thinks seth got nerfed... I dont want to seem insulting but, Seriously, What are you smoking???
the reason hakan got enourmous buffs is ONLY cuz in that live intreview Daigo and Mago said at the same time that he's the worst character. Capcom must have really been dissapointed at that statement, especially comming out of TOP players from japan, so they strived to make hem waaaaay better. i hoped they would have said Dan.
here is the clip
http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2010/ma...
Reason hakan got lots of buffs is because he needed them, he clearly wasn't working properly. Same with guy and makoto.
and that in turn this is why Daigo and Mago said he is the weakest, cuz he DID need it. my point is however, that Capcom will listen to its (japanese) TOP players more than any other ones, especially not american. yes i said it. and guess what, i'm neither! its just sad to me that its come to that. Look at Guile (americano), nothing but nerfs...i detect some conflict. may also be putting insult to injury now after the supercomputer issue.
What? How can you say that? I doubt ANYONE in japan thought Guile was doing too much damage, that's hilarious. I know people in japan don't think fei long was a starving character either, and he got buffs.....
Capcom overestimated Hakan's gimmicks, is all. He has too many gimmicks and not enough solid, surefire strategies. As long as Hakan's opponent doesn't know what he's up to, he won't lose momentum. Most online players below B still can't figure out that Oil Combination Hold can take down a damn low-flying jet. Unfortunately in high level play, Hakan's opponent will almost always know what he's up to. We've all seen the video of Wildcat815 beating Daigo, that whiffed Hakan Tackle into Oil Coaster won him the match, but that probably won't happen ever again. The well has almost run dry on Hakan's gimmicks, some pressure will keep him unoiled and shut him down. Stackable oil and the Oil Slide follow-up will keep him oiled up more, so pressure will make it more difficult to stay oiled up but not impossible. An oily Hakan is a happy Hakan.
Yea, i just wish what you said was true really, it'd be awesome if horrible players had no bearing on what got changed.
thats a good start with Dee Jay! Finally i might pick him up again.
I feel Dee Jay and Hakan got the best buffs, Seth's were a give and take and Guile was all take, I hate fighting Guile but those nerfs seem a bit over the top for him.
but im not pissed that guile got nerfs. im pissed that most of what he got were nerfs. only one slight buff, which was also nerfed at the same time. hey, if they hated him THAT badly, why didnt they just scrap him completely. couldnt they balance out nerfs and buffs? its seriously not fair. some characters like Gouken get mostly buffs, while Guile gets nerfed out his A$$. i thought this was the most balanced sf game ever. here is a suggestion, make 5 buffs and 5 nerfs for every damn character. dont give one everything while taking away almost all from another.
imm also pissed that capcom is making it easier for itzy butitzy srubby b!tches! it seems like the're going to change the whole damn game just to accomondate it to THEIR level. I sucked sooooooo gad in the beginning of vanilla cuz that when i really started out with sf. i played sf2 and aplpa like 10 years ago but not neraly as competitively as now. i played it only when i went to like a friends game and the only 2 hit combo i knew were the old jump in fierce kick and sweep. THATS ALL. i never even knew how to make a shoryuken. but vanilla came along, i practiced and got good by fighting on and on. i worked hard to get better. im still doing it, but it seems that capcom is t!tty feeding the scubs who refuse to get better. they bend over and take one is the A$$ just to sell a bunch of more copys to lame a$$ scrubs who wont buy it cuz they cant win. they should have put in Kintaro from mortal kombat 2 with one punch KO and invincibility to completely sattisfy them. that way scrubs would win (only when and IF someone would accept fighting them) and capcom would sell more sf games. oh nvm i alomost forgot, its all about money, capcom couldnt, NO wouldnt give a sh!t about fans; competitiveness; or anyhing else.
I think it's safe to say that anyone who uses a character that is their main to find out they got nerfed are not going to take it likely. Personally, I still think Guile will be a strong opposition come AE. I see the nerfs Guile getting is a good thing, but not in the way some might see it. He now has to be more a more aggressive character and not always play a defensive style game, similar to what Ryu and Sagat have to deal with now. Sagat in Vanilla you could play a chill fireball war game, and still win because his damage output was ridiculous, the same for Ryu. Even now in Super, those two characters are not as strong as they used to be, and Ryu is still getting nerfed for the AE.
People asked for this game to be made, and Capcom responded, but also they were trying to cater to people who didn't like matches that you could totally lame it out for the win by being defensive or a turtle, that's why when Ono had his interview months before Super even got released, he mentioned that now players have to play more on the offensive, because defensive playstyle are not as rewarding as they were in Vanilla.
But we'll see how this fairs out.
@darko_p86
so you are comparing gouken with guile? hahahaha those cry guile "mainers", guile gameplay wasnt affected so much, and.... he is righ now on top tiers side and you want buffs for guile? hahahaha so funny this guy xD
gouken got buffs cuz he is low dude, and I think this game will be even more balanced so if you cant stand with those nerfs then you need to find another character noob
Guile's damage nerfs are stupid and unnecessary. The meter building with his sonic boom is fine either way but damage...no.
I disagree, I think his damage nerfs are OK but NOT the meter killing, OR one or the other, but NOT BOTH.
Sorry Guiles, I feel ur pain.
All I hear is whining. Guile needed those nerfs he got away with alot of bs. Grabbing people out of command throws and ish. How does a regular throw override a spinning pile driver?
I want to add that I don't main guile but I do play him once awhile just to have a variety when playing online. I can do his cr.lp-->cr.mp-->boom or flash kick and his normal(ending with standing back fp) combos 60% of the time so I'm not that scrubbish with him. However with the nerfs, I may just stop picking him since it takes more effort to win.
Hey Catalyst
Something you might be interested in posting
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1K_N7...
Desks's new chun li video. possibly the highest combo ever done in ssf4 by hand.
lynx_ID
i was only compairing the ammount of nerfes you idiot. they could have just left him alone with some of his stuff instead of giving him buffs. while others like gouken buff up, guile could have been left alone to a certain degree. but no, damage reduction to most of his main attacks plus meter halfed. yeah, learn how to read you illiterate retard
Teh_5_Point_Ohh
i grab ppl out of piledrivers with dan, guile aint the only one who can do it. some of his nerfes i can live with but to give him almost all nerfes is ridiculous.
LOL at all the guile whiners. God forbid you have to work a LITTLE bit more for your victories. If all else fails atleast you have the option to turtle and lame it out. Also if you didn't notice, he is still the same. All thats changed is his damage which is very welcome BTW.
@darko_p86
still funny do you really believe gouken will get into the level of guile with those buffs? you r the idiot dude hahahaha
anyway they nerf the turtle of guile so the pussys like you atack more, sorry little noob better go with another top tier ;)
hahahahahahah xD
@Antitroll he was talking once again when the AE changes arrive same with all the smaller hitbox changes and recovery, startup to other characters change of timing proof you're just crying with no substance proof your garbage also there is also FK-FACD-BD-U2 genius how about you relearn your character.
I dont see whats the big deal with people and guiles nerfs they dont seem bad at all, you dont even know how much less damage some of the move take. And the reason they nerf his Sonicboom was because he easily won fb war with anyone because he could build meter faster. And his f/b hk now seems like a great counter poke for low attacks
The Air throw range should have been changed I find it BS that I'm so close to the ground after the jump and he is at the high end of his arc it still grabs me wtf not even Gief gets that much of an edge on his grabs much less his garbage ultra 2.
Lynx_ID I commend you for being able to understand what the heck he was saying I could barely make it out.
I uploaded some vids of my scrubby Guile. My Guile skills are not that great, but these videos show some of the possibilities in matchups:
Guile vs Dictator
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8gzkW...
Guile vs Boxer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNIJDp...
Guile vs Ryu (2 different opponents)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0CS-S...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghx6x4...
Guile vs Fei-Long
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyIvIE...
Guile, or at least mine, has difficulty handling mixups. The videos show the possibilities and limitations of an average Guile like me. Guile has great capabilities of stuffing normals, but he will have a hard time when pressured.
lynx_ID
again you missed my point completely. i never compaired the level that gouken and guile are in. i only mentioned THE AMMOUNT OF BUFFS AND NERFES those 2 have gotten. i doubt the level of your iq can process the sentence i just written. and btw you DONT KNOW how i play you inbred swine. i play a rushdown guile if you cant understand what that means. can your little mind possibly comprehend the magnitude of such a statement, or are you just really reatrded? go ahead and laugh and say again why this is so funny to you. i aint got no time for clowns like you. i wish you luck in your pathetic life
so glad for the guile nerfs... vega fans/users everywhere are rejoicing, i'm sure. but they dropped the ball on the chance to nerf that damn air grab... i've seen that ish do some crazy things...
but yeah, i hate guile, that's the only reason i'm so glad about his nerfs... idk if it was "fair' or not lol.
darko_p86
and again, a rushdown guile? sure dude and so... what the hell you cry if they buff hes rushdown at least a little and nerf the turtle style? no sense dude you only see like a stupid noob, hahahaha but is good you are like pussy for those nerfs, maybe you dont have the IQ to be good with those nerfs begginer? xD all have nerfs and buffs, top tiers have more nerfs than buffs and low tiers more buffs than nerfs stupid trash, so retarded you dont have sense ;)
@shadow050
Im a vega mainer dude and yes, I like those nerfs to guile and the air grab nerf, that was too far strong,this game will be more balanced so bad lamers are whining xD right darko_p86??
@ darko
Maybe capcom just knows how many scrubs there are that wanted him nerfed, and for that reason they posted the nerfs first while withholding the buffs. The same people crying about Guile in this game are crying about blanka ball and want lariat nerfed, just horrible players. After the tiers lists you see alot of guiles, but they all suck so they are easy to beat, i can't imagine how any decent player could lose to a character requiring such precision to play in the hands of an incompetent.
lynx is a troll, don't respond he's pretty dumb.Comparing guile to ryu/sagat from vanilla is also foolish. They have offensive tools while Guile really doesn't, that's why it makes sense to buff his normals by a couple frames.Gouken is a zoning character who's normals were not combo friendly, the comparison is legitimate. Guile didn't win fireball wars with "anyone"
Sooo much stupidity, so little post space.
Gouken needed buffs, Guile didn't he owned basically the most lower part of the cast so the nerfs where correct in what they were leading to the only big mistake the nerfs have done altogether for all characters is not solve the bad match ups besides the Guile nerfs aren't the worst that spot goes to Abel.
@192
No he didn't own the lower part of the cast, you're just bad. The fuerte matchup for one was so lopsided that a fuerte player who didn't have much skill or experience could pick him up and a Guile player would have to play extremely well to win based on Guiles weaknesses. Infact, just about anyone could take advantage of these weakness at the proper distance, which isn't hard to get into because i play against Guile quite abit.
How does abel have the worst nerf spot? What, he can't anti-air off the elbow? Something tells me you don't have that kind of timing, and that's about the only nerf that made no sense. I thought U1 nerf didnt make sense, but half your life on an ultra is abit extreme.
The U2 nerfs certainly made sense and the fact that you think they were horrible just shows the kind of player you are. Blanka ball is OP too, right?
Please please please this isn't the full list for Seth. I main Juri and Seth, and Seth currently has 100% of my attention right now. From the list, it's mostly nerfs. You have to play Seth to understand why though. His dive kick speed NEEDED a buff, but they didn't do that? Why did they reduce the hit and block stun? He isn't that great of a character. He is extremely easy to kill and almost takes no effort. If his changes were up to me it would look like this:
make his dive kick come out faster. Reduce the damage slightly
Remove yoga snipe (I don't wanttttt to, but apparently its a problem for most people???)
Increase his health to 800, 900 stun (only buff I seriously like).
That's it. Ultra 2 should keep its invincibility frames. He needs the dive kick, and he needs the j. d+mk. They all provide a reliable mix-up. If the nerfs really just crap him out, I'm just going to go to Akuma.
MadnessFamilyguile
its ok, i'll live with these nerfs even tho i cant agree on em. watch even tho guile got nerfed, ppl will still complain that he's still hard to beat. scrubamanias top members like lynx amd shadow like to kiss A$$ cuz their sh!tty vega cant seem to get through guiles low boom recovery and airthrow. they hate to lose to a turtle guile (everyone does), but taking a loss to a rushdown puts their rage into overdrive. instead of b!tchin and crying all day they too could actually work for a win. i have however forgiveness for em tho, no its actually more pitty than anything else
@ nuckledu
well said bro, but the problem is that the character is not hard to beat at all. its lack of skill like some sh!tty vega players i know that make excuses and blame it on the character. and then laugh all day thinking it's funny. poor sucka,
Yea they will complain because it doesn't change his playstyle at all, if anything it makes him even WORSE because now there's absolutely no motivation to go on the offensive EVER.
ok ok i think the main reason for the sonic booms nerfs is to even out the matchup for non projectile characters if they dodge his projectiles with skill then guile would only get 10meter per boom meaning he needs 25booms for 1 ex stock this way even non projectile chars can lame guile out keeping him at bay is in there advantage big time if they have the life advantage.guiles meter building in prejectile wars wont be so bad he probably will gain meter everytime firballs hit his booms and everytime booms are blocked ofcourse if ryu has the lead he can lame out guile and just dodge booms meaning guile gets almost nothing lol real talk i think this change is so that ofensive chars can be a little mor patient with attacking withought wry about ex booms
Pfft. I main Gief his changes are terrible and I will still use him and have beat Guile's with little to no effort so don't come in with that your just a bad player bs If anything my only problem with Guile has been the priority and range of his Air Grab as compared to Gief U2 and that's really it.
Let see Makoto, Dan, Gen, Sakura, Rose, these are the lower half that loses out to Guile as does Hakan and T.Hawk, Gouken as well can lose out to him.
Like I said before some nerfs where well deserved but don't do much against the bad match-ups which what they should be aiming for. Oh yeah and BTW I didn't go on an insult your playstyle so please be so kind not to go that direction K.
Rose is considered a bad matchupp for Guile in some pro circles, see? You don't know what you're talking about. As for the rest, those characters have bad matchups with basically everyone so why single out Guile? Durr.
Gouken can lose out to him, but Guile can lose out to Gouken too...what's your point? None of the above loses based on how much damage Guile does.
You said Abel got the worst nerfs, the only nerf he got which was heavy handed was the ultra 2 nerf. U2 was notoriously known as the scrub ultra, therefore people who claimed abel got the worst nerf based on that ultra were probably scrubby.
Everyone freaks out when these things are released, just wait to play it before complaining people.
Well Rose and Guile is a fireball war so Guile just has to use the light to get close and poke her to death reflect isn't a definitive answer unless your dumb enough to try and do a SB at point blank range all Guile has to do is keep his space in control and that is it switching between both Light & Heavy SB and if she is sliding punish it before she attempts a throw not so hard.
Gen can actually break in on most fireball characters Guile has the edge in terms with his Air throw negating the Oga of Gen very heavily next to his FK
As for Abel his U2 I honestly don't take ultras into equation of the character as a whole honestly if your just waiting for the ultra that says it all about your "playstyle".
Gouken doesn't have nearly the best tools against Guile other than fireballs and even then if he gets in that is the players fault.
Also your complaining about Guile, Blanka was another huge victim of the nerfs altogether with very little trade off
Rose has notoriously good pokes, she also has reflect. I can post some matches and i feel strong in this match, but that doesn't change the fact that at pro level it's anything but a clean win for Guile.
Gen needs a buff, really dumb to discuss characters that need buffs in justification for other characters to get nerfed.
Umm if you werent talking about ultra 2 then how exactly do you go out and say that abel got the worst nerfs after knowing about blanka and guile?
Goken has a great zoning game. guile is a charge character, the match is all about who can score damage and sit on it. Gouken can easily do this...no point in complaining about matchups you know nothing about, in justification of nerfs that don't have to do with that(or any) matchup.
As for the Rose match-up they will always poke leading to a Soul Spiral FK can counter this pretty easily...
Guile can do the same against Gouken so that one is pretty null an void like I said again unless the Guile user is dumb enough to stay up close.
As for Gen you mentioned BM and why Guile was singled out and I explained simple as that.
His overall dmg in his specials, launcher and roll with nothing to compensate for Guile on the other hand still has his Frame Data unchanged no change to his SB (in terms of recovery and charge), his Air Throw and a buff on his spin kick. plus most Guile's just stick with the backhand most of the time with very little offensively other than zoning those that do stick to offense I at least respect as towards those who make little use of his other tools. Then people wonder why the game feels so slow.
Right, want me to post a pro-matchup of rose vs guile??
yea, guile totally has awesome offensive options against gouken.sure he can lame it out but so can gouken, why whine only about guile?
BM....whatever that abbreviation is supposed to mean, it still doesn't make sense to say "omg guile beats weak characters so nerf him" and ignore all the other bad matchups for that character.
Noticed you completely sidestepped the question about abel, gj...that didn't reveal what you play like at all when you said he got the worst nerfs.
yea, people wonder why the game feels slow. Guile had such limited offensive ability he was forced to play like that at high levels (even daigo isn't offensive) and then capcom nerfs his offensive abilities even worse and people who wanted mroe offense...cheer?
not hard to see why i dont respect these people.
Bad match ups, As for Abel you can bunch him up in terms of offense and mix-up game nerfs like I said my one problem with Guile has been his Air Throw I played during the days of SFA3 So I lean towards offense naturally and enjoyed the fact a Guard Meter was in place something this game really needs but oh well sadly these changes are coming even though plenty of use really dislike some changes coming oh well time to relearn my match-ups
@MadnessFamilyguile
are you saying in AE ppl will turtle more than ever? cuz thats what i thought of too. they were supposed to make him more rushdown friendly like i hoped they would, but it seems the change will have opposite effects. the damage nerfs will take more work, but that will just encourage more desive play. regardless i'll balance it out, ill see how it works once it comes out
@ Darko
Of course they didnt make him rushdown friendly... That's his GAME... Guile doesnt play an offensive rushdown, he plays a STRONG STEADY turtle. Capcom felt that he did too much damage, so they nerfed his damage. They felt htat it was too easy to gain meter with sonic boom, so they nerfed that. Other than that, his OVERALL GAMEPLAY STYLE hasnt changed one bit. People complaining about his turtle tactics are retarded because that's how Capcom designed him to be. That's like saying I main Cammy and play a defensive style LOL. If you want an offensive based character, i suggest trying to pick someone up who was meant to be offensive based. Like Ken?
@MadnessFamilyGuile
About the nerfing for his better matchups and not buffing his weaker matchups, that's EXACTLY what they did to Cammy. TKCS owned a lot of the cast, so they took it out. Did that help out all her bad matchups vs all the other top tier characters? Faster normals? Considering she's has crappy footsies, i dont think it's gonna help her. So get over it.
Guile players need to get over these nerfs. I had to with TKCS, maybe in due time lol.
TKCS didn't own alot of the cast, just noobs who don't know what an option select is. These changes are mostly for scrubs, with some matchup stuff thrown in. You KNOW when you see changes to make blanka ball weaker that its for scrubs for example.
Besides, cammy was compensated with better links so how do you act as though the nerfs are anywhere near that of guile or blanka? And cammy doesn't have crappy footsies...wow.
@darko
Yea, they have to...they can barely make a mistake as is without losing the round. Attempting 1 frame links online against a player with a good reversal is hard enough when your pokes did damage, now what's it going to be like?
they better buff up frames on some normals.
@151
i obviously ment crouching light punch to crouching medium punch
your fcking retarted if you think matchups are as important to guile as say....dhalsim. Guile controls the flow of the match, The opposing player has to play his game, he for the most part doesnt have to adjust as much to who the opponent is playing.
that guy listed those matchups as bad because those characters have tools to get around fire balls. if you honestly belief that el fuerte and viper are BAD to him then you DONT KNOW WHAT THE FCK UR TALKING ABOUT. they just require more thinking then throw boom, anti air, which sadly works pretty well on most characters in the game. sure theres meter managment, which anti air, spacing etc, but for the most part guile forces the opponent to play there game, and that requires less thinking from the guile...
dont act like you know what your talking about, the fact that guile is character armor is not ignorable. Im not mad about him, i play dhalsim and i personally feel dhalsim wins that one, it just a shame to me that i can beat people with a character i hardly play (guile) just by knowing his anti airs, being able to do his easy combos, and by being decent and footsies and spacing.
@211
Yea 1-frame links are seww easy online, and yea matchups are important to guile clown, he and dhalsim are the thinking characters of the class, but even dhalsim pretty much has the same gameplan vs everyone.
Yea, elfuerte and viper are bad to him, i'll take the opinions of professionals over random scrubs anyday.are you the clown from last week who mained dhalsim(guiles very worst match) and still wanted nerfs?
What an idiot, learn to play sometime. I can lose to a bison or honda, but i'm not dumb enough to go and cry about how they need nerfs afterwards.
AND WTF? by design guile is hard to make miscalculations with, if the guile makes a miscalculation he deserves every inch of the damage he gets for being an idiot. If a player gets in on a decent guile they have to out smart that guile.
AND HOW IN ANY WAY DOES MY KNOWLEDGE OF OTHER LANGUAGES HAVE TO DO WITH MY SKILL OVER A GAME
you don't know what your talking about. As a sim i know with most matchups at the start of the game it is usually my game to loose, and its the same with guile. If i get hit down by the opponent its almost always a good read or my fault due to a stupid decision i made, and its the same thing with guile. I can tell you suck just by you saying that unintelligent players get in on you, because good players dont say stupid sht like tha
You a troll? The very fact he's called Guile proves what you said wrong. you NEED to know spacing with this guy, you NEED to know footsies, you NEED to know specific frames of the character you're fighting against, you can't just jump in repeatedly like a moron and tick-throw your way to a laggy victory...and i swear that's what most people here must try to do.
If a player gets in on Guile, and it's a scrub, typically they use the strategy i just named. As a sim, i know you're bad because you think your best matchup needs nerfs. it's the same thing as if i said bison needs nerfs because he's too easy.
You don't know what good players say, they won't talk to you and if they did you wouldn't understand them.
@MadnessFamilyguile
when the fck did i cry and say guile needed nerfs? I WAS TELLING THE GUY TO STOP CRYING BECAUSE GUILE IS STILL INTACT.
and yes, that one frame link is easy. Why i dont know, maybe cause the timing isnt awkward, maybe because i use dudley a lot and his combos are much more demanding. And proffesional opinons? really? Ive seen lamerboi get raped my fuertes. But ive also seen Dieminion DESTROY SOME OF THE BEST FUERTES. why? because he takes the time to learn the matchup because he plays dawgtanians fuerte. People instantly cry over a matchup when they dont see an imediate solution to how to beat the opposing character.
hell in a interview with wolfkrone today he said his biggest fear at the tournament besides justin wong WAS DIEMINION. WOLFKRONE IS ONE OF THE BEST VIPERS AND HE SAID HIS BIGGEST FEAR WAS DIEMINIONS GUILE, THERES PROFESIONALS OPINION FOR YOU
stop acting all high and mighty, your not. only stupid people like yourself go around and assume things constantly
@Trashjaw and Ex_einub
LOL @ "do fadc dash ultra earlier" , yea they'll land behind u if u ultra too early nub
LOL @ "do FADC backdash ultra" , LOL at strict timing midscreen, and the new startup time will most likely get it to miss
Only way to see it connect is fadc backdash U2 in the corner, that's about it
GOD DAMNIT I JUST SAID THE MATCHUP BETWEEN SIM AND GUILE FAVORED HIM. AS IN IS GOOD FOR SIM, LEARN TO READ
AND SOMONES NAME PROVES NOTHING, SF2 HE WAS A THINKING PLAYERS MAN, FOR THE MOST PART NOT ANYMORE
THE ONLY MATCHUPS I COMPLAIN ABOUT AS SIM IS ABEL, AND CAMMY. IF YOU DONT THINK THOSE ARE BAD I CAN ARGUE WITH YOU FOR HOURS, BUT YOU WONT WIN. the fact that your bitter about tick throwing scrubs means your garbage
AND GUILE DOESNT HAVE TO EVER JUMP IN, BECAUSE HIS RIDICULOUS NORMALS, FOOTSIES, RECOVERY AND OVERALL SAFETY.
YOUR STUPID IS ASTOUNDING ME
if you where any good you would know that tick throws arent spammable even online.
the only reason online pisses me off is because ticks are hard to tech on it (wich i wont argue about) sometimes you gotta depend on crouch tech, because you cant react, and if the player your going against is good they can blow up your crouch tech.
You guys all sound the same to me, there's really no way a guy who mains dhalsim should see these nerfs as justified. Could show a professional match like i did to the last idiot, because most of what guile has against dhalsim are abit of damage and meter gain, and BOTH got nerfed, and it was 7-3 before the nerf....
How can a 1-frame link be easier than a target combo? Durrr. You probably don't even know what a 1-frame link is. If cr lp to mp was a target combot he world would go mad lol...you think Guile was bad now?
http://shoryuken.com/f258/what-guiles...
There's what some people who don't think blanka ball needed nerfing think, nevermind guys who main dhalsim and think guile is overpowered. He fears the player, not the character genius, huge difference there.
What sf2 retard? there were like 5 games and he's different in everyone, this is like the weakest guile has ever been. You clowns are still whining about his recovery time when it was even better in other games when it was unified.
Yea if you don't see how a tick throw can be abused with lag you're probably dumb enough to think lag favours 1-frame links...o wait...
and again you assume stuff because ur an idiot.
i never said lag favors one frame links...
what i did say is that lag sometimes makes you have to guess to tech a throw, but its not like tick throws are some godly strategy online that can be spammed all day. Only a scrub would think that.... sure, sometimes online i know i teched something but it didnt tech, but if thats the case i dont play that person again, because for that to be the case they have to be incredibly laggy
AND I LAUGH AT YOUR POST ABOVE TRYING TO SHOW HOW DHALSIM BEATS GUILE. I ALREADY KNOW THAT, LEARN TO READ DAMN YOU! READ.
and yes exactly thats what i was arguing about this HOLE GOD DAMN TIME YOU IDIOT. the player should be feared, because they can deal with matchups that arent in there favor, like guile vs. fuerte, viper etc....
if your a good guile those matches dont have to be bad, but oh wait some stupid troll wanted to tell me i was wrong because he doesnt understand what i was saying and assumes stuff constantly, cause hes stupid
You never said that? Well online is known for lag and you're saying it was easy so...
you already know that? oh idiot then why are you all about having a character nerfed that you have such a huge advantage over? Again, it's like a guile player trying to get bison nerfed.
yea the matches are bad regardless of who's playing them. there's this thing called game mechanics that retards like you don't know about, these gives certain characters advantages over other characters before players even come into the equation.
then you try to counter that by saying johnny x gets mind*^&%ed by dieminion, and that proves game mechanics don't exist how? Viper and fuerte are still bad matches for guile.
You think target combos are harder than 1 frame links though, so what do you know.
Gen's 2nd Mantis Ultra(should look his alpha version) without animation cutscene should have the stun countdown
Gen's 2nd Crane Ultra on block should look similar to Gen's 2nd Crane super in Alpha
MK: jumps up to the ceiling with a waterfall kick
(near the wall) HK: does a straight flying kick that looks like Jumping Crane HK
(near the wall) MK: Dive Kick
---------------------------------------------------------
- LP Jyasen: Gen rolls into ball ending with Mantis Cr. HP
- MP Jyasen: Gen rolls into ball ending with Crane Cr. MP
- HP Jyasen: Gen rolls into ball ending with Crane Cr. HP
this way it look diffrent than Vega's rolling special
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Gen should have this target combo
1. (Mantis) cr LP -> cr MP -> cr HP
2. (Mantis) MK -> HK
pressing HK after MK causes Gen to rotate to opposide side
The easy way to do charge move(only works for Xbox 360)
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use both Joystick & D-Pad
- Joystick = Index finger
- D-pad = Thumb
examples
Max Out: charge & hold back with your joystick then with your D-Pad press forward + Punch
Jacknife Maximum: charge & hold down with your joystick then with your D-Pad press Up + Kick
Sobat Festival(Ultra 1) = charge & hold back with your
joystick then press Forward 2x with your D-Pad + KKK
Climax Beat(Ultra 2) = charge & hold down-back with your joystick, then with your D-Pad press Foward -> Up + PPP
sorry for double post
so what if im dhalsim? that doesnt mean that i want him nerfed because i have a hard time with him, i want him nerfed because most people have a bad matchup against guile......im sorry that you cant understand somone arguing for something besides personal gain.
only a scrub would instantly assume that i was only referring to online play....i wont touch online unless i have a great connection with someone
and dawgtanian isnt just any el fuerte player, hes a really good el fuerte player, who plays dieminion all the time. That means hes familiar with guile just as much as dieminion is familiar with el fuerte, but dieminion still comes out on top. I get that some people have an advantage immediatly over others, but i also get that sometimes people just like to instantly right something of as a bad matchup just because it takes a little longer to learn how to win it. Guile and el fuerte isnt a bad matchup, chun and fcking gief is a bad matchup alright?
and yeah, you indicating that dudley isnt high execution just rights you of as a scrub. Good dudleys dont even use his target combos much, i would love to see you try f. medium kick into crouching hard punch into standing fierce punch. I WOULD LOVE TO SEE YOU TRY, FAIL AND THEN GET TO LAUGH AT YOU
im done arguing with you, its clear that your a decent player who thinks hes good, and has a superiority complex because of it.
Wow, more nerfs. Guile was fine as is in super 4, he plays close to how he did in previous verisons, but o well. Nerfing is all the rage now, because instead of makeing bad characters good we nerf the good characters and give the bad characters just enough buffs to make them medicore. People cryed about turtle characters and guiles name gets thrown around alot but nobody considers nerfing the retarded game mechanics that help defensive play. These nerfs dont make guile play more agressive, it just makes him play even MORE defensive since noow going for combos is pointless and building meter takes alonger.
You're a dhalsim player that wants him nerfed. Lots of people have problems with bison, you don't see me crying trying to get him nerfed do you? Hell, more people have a bad matchup vs bison than guile, yet i'd rather those characters just get adjusted because im intelligent enough to realize that bison has barely changed since vanilla, JUST...LIKE...GUILE!
Yea, daigo doesn't even use cr lp to cr mp link so who's going to believe the clown who says target combos are HARDER? Nice try imbecile. The combo you just mentioned isn't even possible according to frame data, made by people smarter than you,just like guiles cr lk into cr mp.
yea daigo could beat mago 33 games out of 36 in vanilla when he was using sagat, that means things are all good right? Wrong idiot, because game mechanics exist outside of player mindgames. You can't seem to comprehend anything. A bad matchup doesn't mean it's unwinnable simpleton, it means one character has an advantage.
Go ahead and leave, i can't tell you apart from the last idiot who mained dhalsim and was crying about how overpowered guile is.
Bottom line, anyone who wants a character nerfed in this game, especially nerfed this badly, is a scrub. This is clearly a VERY balanced fighting game and if nerfs are the only way you can win, try playing this game in high traffic.
dude, whos gonna believe the guy who thinks that the combos good dudleys use are all target combos. nice try retard.
whos gonna believe the guy who thinks daigo doesnt use that combo just because its too hard, nice try retard.
whos gonna believe the guy who thinks that toward medium kick into crouching hard punch into standing roundhouse is impossible with dudley, EVEN THO I DO IT ALL THE GOD DAMN TIME. nice try retard
whos gonna believe the guy who contiunously states im crying for him to get nerfed, i didnt say he needs nerfs. i said his nerfs dont damage him and he'll still be top tier, nice try retard.
and the combo i said, towards medium kick to crouching medium punch to standing roundhouse is a possible combo, i can do it, nice try retard
and IVE BEEN ARGUING THIS WHOLE ENTIRE TIME THAT A BAD MATCHUP DOESNT MEAN ITS UNWINABLE,i was arguing against that guy because he was bitching about bad matchups and how guiles nerf will make it hard for him to deal with those characters. I was telling that guy that if your a good player those matchups dont have to be bad. Again obviously if its fcking dhalsim against abel, or gief against chun li thats diffrent, but guile vs. fuerte and viper is very do-able. Are matchups like gief, chun possible to win as gief? sure but you would have to be the better player by miles, and it would be a uphill fight. for somone who acts so high and mighty you really have a hard fcking time reading things that i clearly stated.
but sense your a douche, you had to come in and argue that fuerte and viper are hard matchups. I was trying to stress the point that they just require adjustments on guiles part, truly hard matchups have one player at an extreme deficit right at the beggining (geif vs chun again). Fuerte vs. guile in my opinion is more about a bunch of guiles not wanting to take the time to really learn there character and are having a hard time with the matchup, not because its truly bad but because its not as simple as the rest of guiles matches.
I mean as a dhalsim player thats how i see it, keep in my there may be a few things i dont know about the match but sim has a surplus of matchup specific strategies, and i see people complain about some of his matchups that i find not to be bad at all, just because they cant run the same typical thing they normally do. There is a diffrence between a horrible matchup and one that just takes longer to learn
and i dont want nerfs in the game, i want slight adjustments and restructuring of a few characters, personally i would rather them not touch anybody and just buff people only, because whenever they get to nerfing they always seem to fck things up and everyone wont stop bitching
You see Guile's FADC U2 more often? No
Is Guile FADC U2 any how easier to execute than Ryu FADC U1 No
Is Guile FADC U2 seen more often than Ryu FADC U1? NO!
Is Ryu FADC U1 got nerfed? NO!
Guile SB more than Ryu's FB? No
Did Ryu get his FB nerfed? NO!
Guile FK missed so often due to wierd hitbox, did Capcom fix it? NO!
Guile c.HP having difficulty anti-air, did Capcom fix it? NO!
Whooaaa slow down there idiot, i'm not reading that book. Just read the last paragraph of my last post, all any detestable such as yourself ever needs to know.
Yea good points calvin.....i hope capcom didn't mess up this game because it was just freaking beautiful how well balanced it was. If guile needed all those nerfs when he was already the weakest S-tier in history...wow.
But we all know he wasn't really S-tier.
@231
U can cancel low fierce into flash kick, it has tricky timeing though but it has ALOT of dmg and is prob one of the strongest if not the the strongest 2 in 1s in the game.
and seriously, low forward canceling would be retarded. It never ever canceled in any other game(it only chained in marvel). Its supposed to be a good long range poke, not a combo starter.
@chickenwings
c.HP > Flash Kick does not work. It never worked in SFIV or SFII. It's actually a standing HP > Flash Kick.
- down charge
- neutral direction
- HP
- up
- HK
You have to do it very fast, but it is really a standing HP during the Flash Kick motion (down -> up). When the stick/D-pad is in the middle, you press HP, so the timing is strict. Can be done with any punch.
next week we will see adon, dalshim, bison, and akuma mainers hating for nerfs and comparing those character to medium or low tiers ;)
this time was for guile,seth.... mmm well basically I see only guile mainers cry about nerfs, nerfs that arent as drastical but noobs cry hahaha
Ole
at positive Troll @216 you can't read a full sentence moron When the AE changes come in these are the changes you would have to apply now that the timing is different so stay free since you can't even handle the simplest idea.
@234
Well, consider this. WHen u go for the fierce into flash kick ur coming from that low charge up to about half way to the up poistion and then hiting the fierce and cancel into flash kick. So while its true what u said that ur canceling standing fierce instead of crouching fierce the input makes it feel almost like a low fierce(since u need that charge). Its wierd to explain really, but if u know how to do it its easier to understand.
So far there hasnt been any nerfs that can be justifed. People keep comlaining about them but honestly they should just drop the game instead. I went back to hdr and even though i have to relearn the game im enjoying it alot more and the fact that i dont have to worry about combos and tactics geting nerfed later gives me more incentive to learn. Super 4 was a step forward for the game but ae is taking it back.
simply said, 2 ways:
charge down, stick in neutral position + HP, up, kick
or, if you ride the round/octo gate:
charge down, down/back, back + HP, back/up, kick
The crouch HP animation shows Guile raising his arm stretched/straight, but his standing HP animation has him with his arm in a banana-shape uppercut, rather than a stretched one. It's a different move.
@238
like i said, ur right, its just that if u wanted to explain to someone how to pull it off u would have to explain that the timing kinda has u at a low fierce(or basicly pressing the fierce as soon as u start ur upward motion). Dont matter though, people that complain about current ssf4 guile are just retarded.
like i said before, most of these updates are filled with nothing but negative comments about the nerfs(or absence of buffs), if u find ur self just hoping that these updates never come just do urself a favor and dont play. Hdr(been playing it recently and have been loving it) is a far superior game and we have sf3 coming along with mvc3(still have mvc2 also). Capcom isnt gonna fix the bigger issues with the game(ie turtling being the best strat) and the only way to send them the proper message is to just not bother with the next iteration. I remember when killain said super street fighter 4 was a more aggressive game but if i knew the truth, that it was the exact same as sf4 i wouldnt have bought it.
I dont get the fuss about the guile nurf..
He can do everything he could already do now..just it takes off less.....and? So? So now what, just because u gotta chuck a couple more projectiles or couple more backfists mans wanna rage quite on life? Geeez when last have you seen a guile match to to time out? If you're as good when it comes out as you are now, there shouldn't be a problem. Don't rely on an Ultra to bail you out and I doubt you'll notice that much of a nurf.
(did everybody even read the info on guile?)
READ THE LAST LINE THEY SAY ABOUT GUILE!!
(after you read it, shut up and move on to something else to complain about.)
i just hope they do something about sim because in my opinion is the hardest character to beat :/ and why the hellw ould they nerf guiles u2.im a guile player and honestly u1 shudve been nerfed.why nerf the weak ultra? how many guiles do you see perform a flashkick fadc u2 and how many ryu's do you see doing a shoryuken fadc u1 and u2?and none of those ultras are getting nerfed :/
Fir... oh wait, doing that sucks.