Fir... oh wait, doing that sucks.

to caruga: It does and now me feel saddened that Guile got nerfed in the Special and Ultra department. It's gonna make a lot of Guile players (myself included) upset.

Hakan changes, get hype.

HURRY UP HAKAN!!

Looks like guile players will have to be more aggressive with his flash kick and certain defensive options nerfed. Will be interesting to see what's in store for hakan.

where are the DeeJay and Hakan changes?

Alright now I'm ready for adon nerfs, the guy takes wayyyy too much damage with his specials, add combos to that and its a little crazy.

Reduce back knuckle. GREAAaaaat. Reduce all Flash kick.. greeaaaaat. reduce all special and Ultra and more Frame on start up on Ultra 2,,,, Greaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat.

DAMN go right ahead and Reduce sonic boom to 20 damage..

lp,mp,Hp all does only 50 damage. in the first place. this is CRAPPPPPPPPPP

Interesting changes to Guile. Damage Nerf sucks, but making his upside-down kick avoid Ryu's kick is nice for his footsie game.

He might go down tiers a bit, but still good.

Nothing but nerfs for Guile. I have a feeling that Daigo won't bother picking up Guile anymore. About Seth, it would seemed he would play really differently now. I'm not sure if Capcom nerfed or buffed him. It's more like this Seth is not the same as SSF4, but instead, a whole new character.

@10 Not really a new character, just a somewhat different playstyle. Like Zangief when he got the green hand in super turbo. Or Chun when she got the fireball.

wow nerf seth to death gj capcom.
his divekick was already nerfed to sht in super, why nerf it AGAIN.

Where's my dee jay sh!t at?

COME ON! Light Kick, Medium Kick and Hard Kick Flash Kicks damage reduced, Sonic Hurricane's damage reduced. What's up with that!

Its a miracle, Guile will no longer be that much of a pain the bum

Guile fans are gonna be as pissed as I was with the El Fuerte Nerfs.

As I said before...Honda, Akuma and Ryu are STILL Deadly!

Sakura got stronger as well as Makoto.

See a pattern?

THEY ARE ALL JAPANESE!!!!

Looks like seth is no longer shin dhalsim, but seth.

lovin' those guile nerfs...

Seth is now Seth once more especially since now it makes me want to try him.

Well looks like Gulie is more stun dependent now which is cool since all frame data stayed the same, which will be interesting to see if Daigo sticks with him after the changes are in place.

Now Seth looks like great changes, while it looks like basically nerfs it's basically changing how you play the character kinda like if they gave Ken's MK(and thus Kara) a shorter range

I think Seth would benefit from being adding more to him that focus on the Tanden stuff he does.

In addition he would benefit from more Urien normals and Aegis Reflector.
eff it, just put in Urien with stretchy arms

oh yeah and that life and MAJOR stun increase on seth will help him when he get's into stun heavy combos

I am praising at the Guile nerfs.

I am a Bison player and it is so ridicuous how badly guile can lame out Bison.

(Bison hate mail in 5...4...3...2...1...)

Wow, why are people coming to these blogs with the mindset of "HE WAS NERFED/BUFFED"

Maybe the devs want you to play the characters the way they envisioned them to be played?

KanyeWest he has more of gills normals while Abel has Uriens more

they should nerf guile some more the problem is the recovery on booms being 2 fast they kept it the same hmmm i dunno guile should have below average health because his keep away playstyle considering booms are impossible to jump 29frames recovery it takes atleast 36 frames to jump in

Personally, the changes to Seth make me want to play him more. I HATED the jumping stretching arm crap with him.

At least with that removed, Seth can actually be more tolerable this time around. I guess CAPCOM did listen to feedback this time around.

its funny how they just nerf and don't give him any tools in return. How is this gonna help out his crap matches against viper, fuerte, akuma, abel, etc? They should make his links easier. Hardly anyone will go lp-->mp hitconfirm into flash kick because the lp-->mp link is so risky. In general, linking into flash kick (except from a clean jump in) w/o using meter to cancel is risky. And now that Guile is gonna have less meter that option is less valuable. Speaking of which, less meter could potentially leave with NO get out of jail free cards. Might not be able to do a safe flash kick cancel when pressured like crazy. And in this game you NEED such a get out of jail free card esp with Guile because Guile can get pressured by crazy mixup games such that even the Guile players with the best concentration will eventually break. Anyone who says Guile was too overpowered probably doesnt know proper rushdown and crossup game. Once you get Guile on knockdown, the tables can really turn.

@29

Bison would like a word with you...

lol @ #26

@Von Kunlun Boof
BISON!!!!!
NOOOOOO!!!

@23
GEE! Must be hard having all those 3 bad match ups.
I bet air must be thin so high up in tier list making you nauseous too!
Bah, enjoy your godlike scissorspam.

oh yeah for all of those who are complaining remember
"THIS IS NOT THE FULL LIST OF CHANGES"-Seth Killian

Yeah...Bison users have nothing to complain about...

nothing...

@30,if you ask me Bison doesn't have that bad against Guile if he sticks 90 percent strictly to safe scissor kicks and fully exploiting the crossup game and pretty much NEVER doing psycho crushers like some fools continue doing. A Bison player needs guts more than strategy to beat Guile.

hey ill be the first to admit Guile had some really good matchups.

I just wish instead of ONLY making him weaker, they should make him weaker against his good matchups, but give him some sort of tools for the other guys he struggles with. Hell, make him offensive and i suggested a way to do that - make his links easier (so a guile player can be more confident in attacking)

however the changes to reverse spin cake is a step in the offensive direction. If you don't believe me, watch how emg dieminion has been using that move recently and how he's been going all out offensive with it.

well now I'm happy to see guile being nerfed, as I predicted they only reduce his damage and well his meter gain reduce too, I think thats is good cuz that sonic boom is almost safe at least wont gain meter just to spam and its ok now, now I really want to use him

now I only want the vega's ST to be a good reversal and I will be happy xD

God, all of that sucks. I want Cammy's cannon spike to do 500 dmg.

No matter how hard I try... (T.T)

Guile Sonic Booms me to the point of suicide. It's definitely a 7-3 match-up in Guile's favor, and when he's in the corner, it goes down to a 6-4 match-up.

Even then, it's not like it's cake to get him in the corner. Sure Bison's throws are a really good zoning tool, but it's a little hard to get close to Guile when Sonic booms are punching me repeatedly in the face.

Other cons:

-Scissor kicks are also limited, both normal and EX because of that freakin' sonic boom recovery time.

-Bison's high arc on his jump gives Guile adequate time to react with c.HP, flashkick, s.HP, U1, U2 or an air throw.

-EX Psycho crusher gets past Sonic Booms, but it's still in Guiles favor because of :Recovery time of booms and Bison wastes meter to get close for an attack.

-Headstomp gets owned by guile walking back and D Reverse gets owned by anti airs. It's a waste to even bother with the EX versions.

Overall... One of the most horrible match-ups in SF history.

Bison should have killed Charlie AND Guile...

Man, I don't mean to write a hateful comment but s**t, you guys are really hard headed. How many times does Seth Killian have to say, "Don't jump the gun guys!"? Even eventhubs warned:

Keep in mind that this is not a complete list of changes for these characters, and more things that have been altered will be discovered with time.

THEY'RE NOT THE ONLY CHANGES. There are others. Considering that Ono is the biggest troll in the world, he's probably choosing to shower certain things to get a reaction. For all we know, Guile (the one I see most people are angry about atleast in this thread) got better hiboxes for ALL his move, making him even deadlier in the poking/footsies game. I mean I can understand an initial reaction but all the "WOW ONLY NERFS" is ridiculous. There are more changes. Wait for the game, play it, study it, THEN make a judgement.

Sheesh!

show*
:/

Guile being a charge makes his links amongst the easiest in the game, not really sure how that would make guile's more aggressive in any way/

ROAR. Triple post fail

Move=normals.

Any changes for Hakan and DeeJay?? Maybe not posted yet.

I played Bison in Vanilla. Call me a tier whore.

Most of the things people complain about with Bison, well HEY! Newsflash:

- He had the same s.HK in Vanilla (And it was actually STRONGER in vanilla than it is now)

- He also had the scissor kicks too (Which were also STRONGER in Vanilla too. Also could not be punished on block)

The new things he got in Super that helped were Ultra 2 and a better psycho crusher (The one he could do cross-ups with in ST, but then again he was still mid tier in that game). The things I see some people complain about with Bison make me laugh. You get pissed now, but why weren't you pissed in Vanilla? Oh yeah... You were playing Sagat.

Tier WHORES

Deejay's changes are where now???

@39

ya, i hear you. While I still disagree that its THAT bad, I understand. I play Bison too and I looked at your list and I agree with pretty much all of it (just disagree with conclusion). However, all of the best japanese bisons I've seen, when playing aggressive do pretty well against Guiles. Im too lazy to post links, maybe another time. But keep in mind that Bison only has 1 deadly matchup, and I think the rest is a relatively fair and balanced matchup sheet to say the least and not to mention he has stuff like ex-psycho, teleport, etc that gets him out of pressure situations when things get bad (guile doesn't have that luxury).

@40

Ya I didn't mean to jump the gun at all. Just making some SPECULATIVE criticism. I think its not too unhealthy to do some of that, as long we don't take any speculations here too seriously

GOod points guys.

Sakura, Zangief and Makoto were mega boosted, Cammy, Guile and Dan were ultra nerfed. Minor changes to Sagat for the good and to Seth for the bad.
I predict a Zangief in A-S tier, Makoto to B and Cammy, Guile for C-D tier. Sagat could also rank S after his damage increases.

I'm definitely gonna be rocking a deejay in AE... just for kicks.

Go DEEJAY Buffs

Glad Guile got nerfed. Now I can stop feeling guilty for playing a top tier character as my secondary.

Although I've played him since World Warrior. He used to be my main until I switched to Gen in super, but I never mained Remy in 3s, I mained Sean and seconded Twelve.

Anyway, it's good to see more news.

The most significant change to Guile isn't the damage, it's the Sonic Boom meter gain. Reduces the ability for him to Flash Kick -> FADC so often. Makes it harder for him to respond with EX Sonic Boom to Focus Attacks if he doesn't have a down charge.

Glad Guile got nerfed. He's going to be easy pickings in a noobs hands. Only the advanced players will stay dominant, go find another character scrubs.

@52

Ya that was what I was talking about earlier. Flash --> FADC is Guile's main get out of jail free card against forward opponents and meter gain reduction will harm it. Question is how much.

@49 LOL I see what you did there.

Going to get Top 8 at the next AE tournament with Hakan now. Thanks.

Dee-Jay Buffs! YEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA MONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!

The real guile nerf that was needed was a nerf to his c.hp, which is a one button srk. If they made that move have limited use, then guile would be forced to guess on air throws for AA or use flashkicks. That would make it would be a more lenient guessing game to get in on Guile (because guile would have to take risks, too), rather than Guile's opponent having to take all of the risks to get in.

And, with the removal of j.hp, Guile vs Bison is the new worst match up in the game, now that Seth vs Gief is gone. This matchup has actually gotten harder with each new SF4 version.

Hakan's buffs will enable him to spread the pride of Turkish oil wrestling further...

TOO BAD BISON IS OWNING MOST OF YOUR COMPANY'S SHARES AND IS BANGING YOUR WIFE! BETTER LUCK NEXT TIME, BITCH!

>:D

@Realpolitix
no u free

@yode

Get at me dawg, gamertag is Cap- Wait a minute.

SOOOOO happy with what they did to Dee Jay

Hakan BUFFS! F YEAH!

My break down of this week:
Gulie has been changed to a more stun heavy character with all his frame tricks still intact I see slight alteration especially with Meter Gain change to how people play him, I'm still expecting some Warahk type rushdowns just more playing to stun.

Seth has been changed to a more unique character that needs to be relearned, though I (and others) wish he'd be change to have more taden related moves. The changes they made make him seem like he'll have to played less like other characters and be more own his own level/style, that life/stun increase will greatly help that happen.

Dee Jay is overall better, while not going his ST root they have given him better tools and changed him to be something of a threat in a very real way.

Those Hakan changes looking pretty meaty especially the oil slide into Oil shower follow up as well as Adjustments to make the 360s feel like SPDs. Giving him a decent poke,more options when oiled,adjustmens for oil slide, a few cancelable moves makes him what I'd consider a SF4 dan type threat in that if you're caught sleeping on him you will get steam rolled

Cole World no blanket son

@48 You must be crazy if you think Zangief is going to be high tier with his nerfs.

DEE JAY: It seems like he got some MASSIVE buffs. Considering he was already pretty good in SSF4, he might become pretty NASTY in AE. I hope SSF4 Guiles won't switch to AE Dee Jay! (laugh)

GUILE: Nerfing something about his Sonic Boom was one of the most obvious and REASONABLE things to do. He will no longer be able to sit on SB only - especially against other projectile characters (who'll build meter faster now). It looks Guile will have to rely more on his normals now.

Guile vs dhalsim just got like 50 times worse... Awesome.

Guess i am gonna go to dj then, he's lookin promising.

@67

As much as I HATE vs. Guile, I have to admit that he needs that Sonic Boom recovery time. The way his character is made favors turtle/defensive players. If he had standard Ryu-Hadoken recovery time, then he would be horrible because the charge time for his projectiles would make it that much worse.

Hmmmm things look bad for my Guile game... Glad I got Cody.

Capcom can't be so stupid as to nerf the damage on an already low damage character and not atleast give him some more friendly normals as a result? I mean, can we finally make it so that cr lp is +5 on hit now??

If he's going to rely on stun more, can he have a couple more combo friendly normals??? Seriously??? I mean it says something if you nerf a character that can barely threaten seth with his damage, and other characters who have bad health give him a hard time too.

+5 on cr lp is really all i want, and it's totally fair. People whining that he needed a nerf are going to be pretty angry that he's still beating them down in the next version.

@Madness/71
remember this is not the full list of changes

which guile player is going to want to download an arcade edition patch with nerfs like that, jeez

GG on the guile nerfs :}

MrPFloyd #68

That's EXACTLY what I was talking about in #67. WIN!!!

ok, meter nerfs on guile are fine. but damage nerfs...really?!

was it really necessary to nerf his flash kick damage? the thing already is useless as cross ups, has like a 50% chance at getting canceled or trading with a jump in, and has insane recovery time.

flash kick is absolutely useless, which is half of his special moves.

Posted by MadnessFamilyguile on December 6, 2010 at 10:43 p.m. #71

Capcom can't be so stupid as to nerf the damage on an already low damage character and not atleast give him some more friendly normals as a result?

-El Fuerte-

one second, lemme spend an extra minute for my 2nd meter,ok lets utilize this NERFED Flashkick FADC NERFED U2, oh wait, damage reduction on both, OH WAIT, startup might be too slow to connect!!! F THIS GAME

Antitroll111
that's Trollish
you forget tha the frame data is still the same except on the U2's Start up the flash will still be an antiair while not at damaging it's still an anti air.

Hehe, DeeJay will be coming back! ^^

@78

He got better normals, exactly. Guiles recovery on his flashkick should be reduced abit...or even if they don't do that, can it PLEASE be made so that his cr lp is more combo friendly??

Guiles ultra was already one of the lowest dmaaging, and the combo it had was already unimpressive in terms of damage. To compensate for further damage reduction, how about combo-ability gets fixed?

Funny thing is all the scrubs are still going to be beaten by Guile if they couldn't figure him out now, it's just going to be longer and more frustrating for both parties.

GG capcom, i hope you aren't this foolish.

ex_ein

im talking about Flashkick FADC Ultra 2

Poor Guile players have to work for their victories now, I feel so very sorry for them.

Why was seth's dive kick nerfed? It already sucks.

#85
I found that odd as well, it's like they don't want you to use it outside of combos.

@84 Poor Guile players have to work for their victories now, I almost feel sorry for them. fixed

@74

Any Guile player who can take the hit and still rip a good Honda or Chun apart. That is, players who love the character and have skill.

antitroll111 it's called changed timing, you just have to do the U2 Earlier

Brain F & Stefanten
"found that odd as well, it's like they don't want you to use it >>outside of combos<<."

They're changing the way you play Seth, aka making Dive kick more useless will make you rethink your combos

Hakan buffed
Gief buffed

damn

Gief ain't buffed why do people keep saying that.

I will be god from now on with Hakan.

ex_ein Actually if u do it earlier, the opponent lands behind, learn guile before you speak, GOD I HATE NOOBS

@94 your an idiot he is speaking when the changes apply how about you learn to read instead of whinning

Kind of glad guile got taken down a peg, but only cause I don't like him. I can totally see people would be upset with his changes.

Looks like hakan just became competitive- step low into light slide; you could make some quite long special cancel combos now, without burning meter on crisco combos.

I am very interested to see the "new" seth and hakkan in action.

@96

Wow, bison only has 4 (incl. Zang) negative match ups? And you are complaining?

6-4 is not a screwing. 6-4 is how makoto players live.

Bisons ultra 2 wasnt even useful against guile...

I approve of guile changes! turtle fag had what was coming.

SO much whine here ... did EventHubs relocate to Nappa Valley?

I hope they reduced guiles damage to increase combo potential, thatd be the best guile yet