Top Super Street Fighter 4 players offering paid lessons

Posted by Catalyst on August 5, 2010 at 11:32 p.m. #1

Just an early heads up to keep the feedback/comments on here constructive. It's perfectly OK to have a negative viewpoint about this idea, but please don't get out of hand.

Posted by stubbs on August 5, 2010 at 11:33 p.m. #2

I seriously don't think you're going to learn $50 worth of info in an hour. Watch a few hours of gameplay videos instead for free.

Posted by ScytheWP on August 5, 2010 at 11:40 p.m. #3

@ 2

Agreed. With all the character guides, matchup charts, and videos floating around...why would you pay to learn?

Posted by Shredelicious on August 5, 2010 at 11:40 p.m. #4

Nothing wrong with this at all. There are places where people better than you will help you out for free but no one of this caliber. I've heard every single one of these guys make spot on predictions while commentating on matches.

I'd say, depending on how bad you want to get better (and by how much), these lessons are totally worth it.

Posted by Hrm on August 5, 2010 at 11:44 p.m. #5

I can understand the idea behind wanting to learn from a pro like this, but personally I think people will learn more through their own trial and error than having a pro tell them everything they're doing wrong constantly. It's still a game after all.
But hey, if they think there's a market for this kind of thing, more power to them. I know if I was good enough that people would pay me to teach them to play, I'd do it without hesitation.

Posted by Struggs on August 5, 2010 at 11:45 p.m. #6

I don't see why people would complain about this. If you could get gutair lessons from Eric Clapton do you know how many people would sign up? That dude is mega rich so he wouldn't give lessons to people for money, but there ain't anyone forcing anyone to take these lessons and if these guys can make some money from people who want to learn from them why not?

I wouldn't mind playing JWong because I think my skills are real good and getting to play him for an hour I might be able to beat him. That would be worth it for me then I could youtube the videos afterwards.

Posted by Cloudius on August 5, 2010 at 11:47 p.m. #7

Honestly its too expensive. If it was hands on, then maybe ok. But everything is being done through voice chat, it not easy getting insight like that. This is for rich people who doesnt have time to learn.

Posted by Grondt on August 5, 2010 at 11:49 p.m. #8

Gootecks has tournament-level characters? Who'd he borrow them from?

Posted by SephirothinHD on August 5, 2010 at 11:51 p.m. #9

No and no.

Posted by Jamesl88 on August 5, 2010 at 11:52 p.m. #10

Comparing this to paying for guitar lessons is actually really insulting. If people are willing to pay for lessons on how to play this game on a competitive level then go ahead. But they would have to be really desparate and stupid to do so because this is a game where you can only really learn and improve through practice.

What is so great about street fighter is that it is easy to play but hard to master. If you think you need to pay for lessons on how to play this game then you're clearly not playing enough..

Posted by shinakka on August 5, 2010 at 11:58 p.m. #11

Hmm... Although it would be sweet to get a few tips from the Pros of the community, I would rather practice more and talk to other Juri players on SRK. I really don't think that at 40-50 dollars in 1 session I am going to learn much from them.

Time, Patience, and Practice > $40-$50 of "good job" and "now keep working on that" I.M.H.O.

Cool to those that decide to sign up for this. I hope its worth it for them :-D

Posted by CageBreaker on August 5, 2010 at 11:58 p.m. #12

@8 LMAO....$40/hr for Gootecks, who does he think he is

Posted by Struggs on August 5, 2010 at 11:59 p.m. #13

@Jamesl88

You think you can become the next guitar god just by getting lessons and that's it? You've probably never played an instrument in your life! You don't know what you're talking about, it takes a lot of hard work and practice on your own time to get good. People showing you the ropes and techniques can save you lots of time though, but you gotta put in the time yourself to get good at guitar.

Posted by brokenTEstick on August 6, 2010 at 12:03 a.m. #14

To Gootecks:

Who do you think you are?!

Sincerely,

A SF FAN

Posted by HypahVypah on August 6, 2010 at 12:04 a.m. #15

@2

Dear God this. Super Street Fighter IV costs 40 USD TOPS.

The kind of people who would benefit from this most are tournament players who learn something with every match they play. Those people, however, can learn all they want when wreck house in tournaments, which is usually what they are doing.

Posted by goron_ninja on August 6, 2010 at 12:04 a.m. #16

I don't like this because it's taking a step back as a community. In Japan they SHARE this kind of stuff and take people under their wings and try to get better as a whole, but this is like "Pay to get better!" and $hit.

I guess these guys aren't going to offer to do this stuff for free, but they should contributing more to the community so everyone can get better and we can beat all of the people from Japan!

Posted by brokenTEstick on August 6, 2010 at 12:05 a.m. #17

i think 35 is reasonable..at best, for wong.

Posted by SnakeEyez on August 6, 2010 at 12:07 a.m. #18

While I respect their hustle, I think that for most people, this is useless. If you've ever been completely destroyed in a match (like they would most likely do to you), you know that you pick up a couple things about the matchup but that won't make you better. You need to play people with your same skill or a little bit better so they can push you and it'll be a close match. That's when you know what you're capable of doing and know what you need to improve on. Good example, I suck against Viper but playing Marn's Viper won't change that since I'd probably get stunned way to quick for me to have learned anything.

I only see this being worth it for people that are already really good at the game and need to play top players to get their game to the next level (which I guess is the point of this).

Posted by Tsevin on August 6, 2010 at 12:07 a.m. #19

I think the idea is ok but $40-50 for just one hour is a little much. I obviously can't say from experience that you wouldn't be getting your money's worth, but I'm not seeing how that could possibly be true. Then again, "getting your money's worth" is pretty subjective, so whatever.

Posted by VegaBisonAbel on August 6, 2010 at 12:09 a.m. #20

i used to tutor algebra 1 for 30 bucks. SSF4 is way more complicated than algebra 1. They can probably see a player's tendencies and "needs improvement parts" just by watching a couple of vids. Also gootecks being not that good in tourneys doesn't mean he's a bad teacher. For all we know, he's the best teacher of all of them. Just like Phil Jackson wasn't really a really good player but he's the best coach.( i know the comparison is kinda far off, but oh well)

Posted by Mienaikage on August 6, 2010 at 12:10 a.m. #21

Although Wong is a high level player, I think he'd make a bad teacher because of how he communicates.

Posted by Axefresh on August 6, 2010 at 12:15 a.m. #22

This is from jwongg's website

http://jwonggg.com/?page_id=331

"$30 PER HOUR
$60 FOR TWO HOURS
$80 FOR THREE HOURS
$100 FOR FOUR HOURS"

Obviously the prices are increased because everyone knows only d!ckriding people are going to drop the bucks. Why? Because the people who pay for this are more interested in interacting with popular players than learning SF.

"omg justin wong talked to me and i got to play his rufus" *jizz in my pants*

Posted by SeoulZombie on August 6, 2010 at 12:19 a.m. #23

Street Fighter isn't a game that can really be taught that well. It's more about reading your opponent and reacting to what is happening. No one can teach that to you, it's about practice. I can understand learning some fundamentals and other things; but overall, this is a pretty bad idea. The game itself costs less than half of the players. Save the money and watch videos or check forums.

Posted by Balloon on August 6, 2010 at 12:20 a.m. #24

Actually, Gootecks and JWong have been doing this kind of thing for almost a year now through various places.

I think while the comparison to guitar playing is okay, I think there are a few flaws in it, most visibly the fact that playing guitar isn't a competitive thing (unless you're in Crossroads). Your success as a musician isn't determined by how much better your knowledge of the chromatic scale is than the next guitarist, for example.

My opinion, aside from that I believe it's too expensive, is that sometimes you see that the best players don't make the best coaches, and the best current players being coaches is almost unheard of.
Most times, instead of taking lessons from the best swimmer in the world, I would rather take lessons from the guy who has an impressive record of coaching eventual olympic swimmers. Even then, you gotta be a natural swimming prodigy like Michael Phelps to make it like that.
Even going back to guitar, you don't wanna take lessons from Clapton because he can make you such a better musician and unlock your potential. You want to take lessons from Clapton because he's a celebrity and you can say you met and took lessons from Clapton.

tl;dr version: It's too expensive and they'll never teach you how to beat them so even if you pay you'll still never be the best. You can't teach genius.

P.S. inb4 "My Fight Money!!!!"

Posted by deathheadver666 on August 6, 2010 at 12:21 a.m. #25

So I can pay $40 bucks to gootecks so he can teach me How to throw my stick when I lose in a tourney hell yeah sign me up

Posted by Amnesiac on August 6, 2010 at 12:21 a.m. #26

If you've got money burning a hole in your pocket, feel free to do this. I think it's too much money. Bad investment. Like it was previously said, time, patience, and practice are much better than throwing money away like this.
DX

Posted by Kougekisuru on August 6, 2010 at 12:22 a.m. #27

#16
This is just proof of how greedy ppl are over here. You know what...I am offering my services for free. Anyone want to learn some basic stuff that you can expand upon and get better hit me up. Dead serious.

This is like if ppl offer you a service of unbricking your psp for free, but then you have some dude that may be known a little more than the freebies, that charges $100.

I understand that ppl dont want to tutor folks all day for free but man...for that price you can really go bite yourself.

You want to help the community? Then help the damn community! Don't try to milk and pimp us like a bunch of dummies.

For those that have yet to catch on...It is a game. Nothing more. Hype as hell but still just a game. Don't try to rush your growth... I know this is the microwave instant generation but do some hard work and be patient for once.

Daigo worked his ass off to get as awesome as he is today. If he can do it...ANYONE can do it.

Posted by brokenTEstick on August 6, 2010 at 12:23 a.m. #28

@23

or that information could be outdated..I don't think he'd use EA emails anymore.

Posted by CaptJack on August 6, 2010 at 12:23 a.m. #29

Lolol. I guess total joblessness for all 4 of these losers makes this a "why not? there's a sucker born every minute!" idea thats hard to argue.

These guys all seem like they would be terrible teachers, but gootecks cant even play the damn game. He should be teaching lessons in how to pretend your someone by just saying your own name constantly and hanging around real players. Hahah

Posted by shinakka on August 6, 2010 at 12:24 a.m. #30

#26

"For 35 dollars an hour, you too can be a scumbag!"

Posted by RZero on August 6, 2010 at 12:27 a.m. #31

I can see both sides of it, These guys are just trying to cash in on thier skills, but this is a different skill altogether, people have to go to school to be teachers or just be talented at teaching. So although it's great idea from a monetary perspective and there are people out there that will pay, I don't think you'll be able to give a quality lesson over voice chat, as you can in person, you can't learn guitar over a phone, you need someone there to demonstrate, show you where to put your fingers and how to strum. In this game it's no different. Honestly 10 bucks for feedback on 10 matches I've played that is what I would pay for some game service, remember back in the day the nintendo power hotline??? LOL

Posted by Axefresh on August 6, 2010 at 12:29 a.m. #32

@29

The point is...it used to be 30 dollars an hour. Justin Wong wasn't any less of a top player before. The prices being this high now is a big F.U. to the fans.

Posted by PrimalHunter on August 6, 2010 at 12:31 a.m. #33

Lessons from gootecks? I wouldnt pay 40 dollars to learn how to lie and throw tournament sticks at people.

Posted by brokenTEstick on August 6, 2010 at 12:33 a.m. #34

@33

point taken.
we can all agree though
"Gootecks, who do you think you are?"

Posted by Triforce on August 6, 2010 at 12:34 a.m. #35

Wow, just a little over the top with themselves there. I could see 40 to 50 for one four hour session but no way per hour. Just stick to the srk forums and keep watching videos...same help.

Posted by MEANWHILE on August 6, 2010 at 12:35 a.m. #36

Wong - I would, except I play none of those characters. Maybe for MvC 2 or 3S.

Ross - Yes, for Blanka. Plus he seems like a chilled guy.

Marn - I've been wanting to get into Viper and Dudley, so probably so.

Gootecks - Don't kid yourself. Not even a top level player, unlike the three mentioned above. Not to metion seeing footage of his student lose to Juicebox Abel and throw his controller illustrates how bad of a teacher he is. Surprised he hasn't quit after failing hard at almost ever Evo, as well as life.

For someone like me, living in Australia, this is quite a good opportunity. Although the price range is a bit steep, I don't think we can really comment on what can be obatined from a lesson until you actually do one. For all you know, it could produce fantastic results. Real life is an ideal situation for most - and I hope to get to New York after school to do some training there - but this system is actually quite considerate for those who can't get to those locations.

Posted by yes4me on August 6, 2010 at 12:36 a.m. #37

I am not that serious... but I like the idea.

Posted by Hyperbomb69 on August 6, 2010 at 12:37 a.m. #38

thats pretty stupid, why dont you just go out to arcades and play people that are better than you, these guys arent Gods of this game.

Posted by RZero on August 6, 2010 at 12:37 a.m. #39

@ PrimalHunter lol! Dude, honestly, we can learn alot from practicing trails over and over then we can from others, cause everyone has a style, you just need to find the right character that fits your style of play and just practice, you're not gonna be great in one hour, but one year, possibly 20 years! That's how long the franchise been around, we learn to throw our first fireball when we were like 10, so it takes alot of time and dedication, but... most of us have life outside of SSF4, it's not like it's a career you can make a living off of. only .01% of all of california give a fart about us being badass in this game, the other 99.9% will tell us to get a life, so we're a long way before this becomes a sport where we make millions of dollars off of.

Posted by MEANWHILE on August 6, 2010 at 12:44 a.m. #40

Also #18, You implying JWong has never gone far in a tourney before? haha oh wow.

Posted by seekerjet on August 6, 2010 at 12:46 a.m. #41

The price is too high. They ask as much as a senior economic/IT consultant with decades of experience. If they raise the price a bit, they almost ask as much salary as a dentist.

As other people stated before, you can't improve to Godsgarden-level by paying $50/hour to let a good player tell you how much you suck.

Posted by LJGPliskin on August 6, 2010 at 12:47 a.m. #42

How about you take that money that you would spend on these lessons and use it to enter tournaments where you can gain real experience.

Posted by ChiquitaLuchador on August 6, 2010 at 12:48 a.m. #43

Wasnt Justin doing lessons at Family Fun Arcade ((AKA in person)) a while back?

I guess this way he can teach anyone from anywhere, so it makes sense!

Posted by RZero on August 6, 2010 at 12:56 a.m. #44

Well, can't fault him for making a "business choice" but dude, if it were that great, there wouldn't be Eventhubs or SRK Forums where you can spend more than an hour browsing, studying and watching videos gettin feedback, play others.

Posted by Axefresh on August 6, 2010 at 1:02 a.m. #45

@44

Yeah but it wasn't this expensive.

Hell, it wasn't this expensive yesterday:

http://twitter.com/JWonggg/status/203...

Posted by portalsofmadnes on August 6, 2010 at 1:05 a.m. #46

There making a smart business move good for them.but cmon do you really need to pay someone to teach you how to play?Heres an idea find your own fighting style and teach yourself!

Posted by Zero1 on August 6, 2010 at 1:07 a.m. #47

LOL. I dunno, something about this just seems off. Whatever happened to just giving out random advice if you beat someone, like what you were looking for?

Some stuff you just can't learn from someone. A lot of it is experience and the way you think about situations.

Posted by Pakman on August 6, 2010 at 1:08 a.m. #48

I'd rather just play (all of) them...for free.

Posted by ayembee on August 6, 2010 at 1:10 a.m. #49

i have no idea why most of you are trashing this idea, but clearly many are missing the point. this isn't "how to mash dragon punch" lessons -- you're likely to get a decent breakdown of what someone skilled is thinking watching you play.

what are your weaknesses, what are your patterns, where could you press the advantage more? are there situations you are being too conservative/not conservative enough? maybe you don't know a good option select that could really pay off for you and change the way you approach certain situations. these are the sort of things someone at that level will be able to bring to your attention -- and that you're not likely to suddenly understand/spot yourself until they are brought to your attentions.

think of it as a step up to the next level. you've spent the time training, you've got to your first 5000BP, and you've plateaued. how do you take the next step? what are you missing?

most pro sports or activities offer some kind of masterclass; hell, sports, photography, music, just about anything. i think it's GREAT that the same thing is now on offer for the SF4 community. it's a sign of the maturity of the genre.

if you think you haven't plateaued yet, you don't need this. it's not for you -- but why begrudge anyone else who thinks they could do with some additional insight to take the next step? $30-50 really isn't that much for the potential chance to get another wave of excitement from the game as you gain mastery...

Posted by ayembee on August 6, 2010 at 1:12 a.m. #50

FYI: i did a basketball masterclass 10+ years ago when i played seriously; university level, 2nd division national league -- was a GREAT move. i got insights into my traits on defense, movement off the ball, and a couple of other subtle things. totally worth the money. they were all small things, but they made a difference, and they were things you would find very tricky to spot/correct yourself. and, most importantly, just because someone showed me the door... i still had to walk through it ;p

Posted by Smorgasboard on August 6, 2010 at 1:13 a.m. #51

I'll say just this. If someone takes the lessons and start winning at tournaments, you can bet that there will be people lining up for it.

Posted by gtfopanda on August 6, 2010 at 1:21 a.m. #52

The idea is cool if you ask me, but the price... well just doesn't feel right. I find it too expensive, there's no way you can possibly learn that much in just an hour.

Of course if money it's not the issue, I guess that cannot hurt.

Posted by dondb on August 6, 2010 at 1:22 a.m. #53

@42
Strippers charge $20 for a 3 min lap dance and most of them never finished high school. Anyways, IT consultants are a dime a dozen. But if you want the "Justin Wong" of IT consultants you will pay much more then $50/hr.

Personally I think its cool if they can make money off their talent. For some, I'm sure the novelty of getting to play SSF4 with some of the biggest names in the game would be worth it.

Posted by Lolento on August 6, 2010 at 1:23 a.m. #54

I think this is valid (and could be very worthwhile for the client), I'm just bothered by it being online (particularly at this price range). You can't really watch videos together (that is, in perfect sync and hearing comments and pointing at stuff), a lot of time might get wasted setting up lobbies, restarting matches and so on, and you can't use training mode. (On the plus side, you get to save replays)

For maximum productivity, I'd seriously suggest to getting a video or two for discussion before scheduling a lesson, and try to record the whole session for further analysis. But still, I'd rather try to book them for an in-person meeting at some event we both happen to attend.

Posted by Johnry on August 6, 2010 at 1:24 a.m. #55

I'm gonna take the flip view of many here and say that the idea of charging for lessons is not a bad idea (but it is not a 'business choice')

However.. the people who PAY for these lessons.... just shoot yourself now and relieve this world of another salad-tosser.

And for the sane people... lets get back to training mode.

Posted by SeoulZombie on August 6, 2010 at 1:25 a.m. #56

While I do agree that Gootecks isn't the best player, I think it he's getting it much worse than he deserves. He's probably placed higher more tournaments than anyone here. He also seems like a pretty nice and chill guy, I think I'd take him after Mike Ross and before Wong or Marn. Just because he's not as skilled doesn't mean he won't have much to teach.

Posted by ado on August 6, 2010 at 1:32 a.m. #57

ya i dunno what the gootecks hate is. i mean, he might not be jwong but his balrog is pretty darn good (considering he doesnt seem to play NEARLY as much as he used to)

i remember watchin vids of him all the time in sf4 but no more in ssf4

and i think gootecks would probably be the best teacher out of all of them

also for me personally, id rather have someone literally telling me what im doing wrong then on an srk board
not that i would pay for this, but im just a better learner that way

Posted by kornbeaner on August 6, 2010 at 1:34 a.m. #58

Here's my personal thought on the idea....Not bad. But to anybody considering this I offer this tip. Play on XBL/PSN for as much as you can for about a month. If you can record your matches, then sit down and watch a few wins and watch all of you losses. Then compare the two, judge yourself and learn from yourself. Then play some more for about 2 weeks. If you at that point think "I wonder how far I've come along?" give one of these guys a ring play them and see how content you are with your performance , record these matches, watch them learn some more and repeat the process from Step 1 and always be aware of your own progress. You gotta learn to crawl to walk and walk to run. Getting your face mashed in consistently by a pro is not the best way to learn this game.

Posted by RZero on August 6, 2010 at 1:36 a.m. #59

Well, if they got talent in teaching and you improve drastically, great! Maybe they are worth the money. But till then I'll wait and see if that happens it's not like you make 50 bucks an hour, that's freakin almost 7 hours or more of minimum wage depending where you live. So you'd really have to think long and hard if it's worth 1 day of work for what you can learn in an hour, plus, they don't have a lesson plan of what to teach you, you have to tell them what you know and don't know, 1 hour for one combo or shortcut technique is not gonna get you to a money match at a tournament. You have to be prepared to invest 100s of dollars if you're dead serious about paying for lessons. I'm a personal fitness professional, I can't magically transform an overweight person in 1 hour, they meet with me 3-5 times a week for 3-6 months at 30-50 bucks and hour, and it takes 6 weeks to notice a real difference! So It would be the same for this, unless you're a true genius and grasp everything the first time and can do it 9/10 times everytime you try.

Posted by Archaik on August 6, 2010 at 1:42 a.m. #60

I wouldn't pay for it, but if some people find it worth 40-50$ then go for it.

Posted by Vorador on August 6, 2010 at 1:50 a.m. #61

It's a very bad thing I think.
That's not the versus fighting's spirit.

Posted by Meteo2 on August 6, 2010 at 1:50 a.m. #62

Yeah its a little pricy, but how about: If you beat them in a match the lesson is free? haha

Posted by chickenwings on August 6, 2010 at 1:53 a.m. #63

why would i pay for something i can get here and on srk for free? Not to mention the tons of vids of high level play u can watch on youtube(they stream everything now). Is it really that hard to learn how to play this game?

Posted by Oculus_Orbis on August 6, 2010 at 2:05 a.m. #64

It IS rather expensive, but the idea, is that they can evaluate your play, and give you a personalized assessment. Basically, telling you exactly what you should practice, what you do wrong/right, etc.

No match video can ever tell you these things the way a knowledgeable human being can.
Of course you COULD learn this stuff by trial/error, but it would likely take a helluva lot longer, since you would have to discover them for yourself, and figure out solutions by yourself, which could take even longer.
OR...
You could play these guys for an hour, and get all that info right away, so you can engage in FOCUSED training, as opposed to unfocused(often foolhardy) practice.

Still, the price is too high. $35 would be a bit more reasonable, imo.

Posted by HukGuay on August 6, 2010 at 2:05 a.m. #65

wow these guys are asking for way to much for a video game. At tops you should be asking for $20-30 an hour. If your rich then by all means go for it. So what if you turn pro? Winnings in tournaments are so low you cant have a good life where you can travel and have family. No offense, but I don't see any top players having a family cause they spend all their time playing video games and not making money.

Posted by Aquaman on August 6, 2010 at 2:08 a.m. #66

I play street fighter for fun... I'm alright with my current skill level, I'm no pro but bettter than most of my friends...

with that money i'll buy the Character costumes(both sets)

Posted by xShonuffx on August 6, 2010 at 2:09 a.m. #67

It's really not about the money it's about the dedication. These are LESSONS! Your not paying for a chance to play a Pro player your paying to improve your game significantly. This is not a Miracle Pill your buying, this is an INVESTMENT. Your not gonna learn everything in one hour or one day, this is something you need to sit and think about doing for probably long term.

Wong, Marn, Gootecks, they all take these games very seriously, it's what seperates them from other players and why they are so good. If your looking at the price as being too high then this is probably not for you. There are plenty of ways to learn how to play without paying for anything but to be honest, what is presented here is for the SERIOUS PLAYERS! The ones who want to make this a career, possibly.

This is not to say you can't get good without it but it's an option and ONLY an option. I mean you could learn how to animate cartoons or program a computer all on your own, mos tpeople have but some want more special on hands training so they go to school for it. Thats an INVESTMENT. You take what you get from that investment. So if they want to charge for lessons fine. But I do have some small quips though.

1) I do feel even though they are charging for personal lessons they SHOULD contribute to the community. As one mentioned, the Japanese share their findings and we need to be just as proactive, did'nt Diago mention this is what the US players need to do?

2) As for the lessons I would like to know wha thtese lessons would provide. I could ask them what I want to learn but does he have a comprehensive plan of attack to help you? We all know these guys are good but where are their credintials for teaching inexperienced players. Even the Miracle Pill has testimonies.

Posted by xShonuffx on August 6, 2010 at 2:12 a.m. #68

I guess I should add while I have no problems with them charging for lessons I do agree with some of the folks here that 50 - 60 bucks is a bit too high. I know these guys are pros but just because they are pros does'nt mean they are great teachers.

I mean, I can draw and paint really good but I'd probably suck at trying to teach you how, you know what I mean?

Posted by MAXIMUM_PANTS on August 6, 2010 at 2:20 a.m. #69

I like it!

This sort of goes to the heart of why I like following the Fighting game community, and it's sort of disheartening that it isn't viewed in remotely the same light as spectator sports.

Like if you were super into boxing, could you throw down $50 for an hour with Mike goddamn Tyson?

No, it would probably cost you thousands, and you would probably die.

It's the same for team sports, how much would it cost you to throw an American football around with the Green Bay Packers for twenty minutes? Is there a number that high?

I'm not too bothered about meeting the top level street fighter players, but if I wanted to play Daigo for example, I'd just need to buy a cheap short-hop flight over to England for SVB, and maybe offer him a couple of Euro for a money match.

Boom. Done.

I've played the best player in the world, and it cost me very little.

My point is that Street Fighter's "Heroes" are all very accessible to any member of the community who wants to meet them.

The four guys here might not be your heroes, but if they are, it's cool to know you could throw down with them for an hour pretty easily.

This is pretty much at the core of why I think:
Following Fighting Games > Following spectator sports

Posted by Doktor42 on August 6, 2010 at 2:25 a.m. #70

I don't see it as that bad.

I don't really plan on doing this myself, as I don't know of anything they could really help me with that doesn't just involve practice.

Shoot, now that I think about it though, I might find it ok to pay for maybe 20-30$ for a match with a review follow up. That seems a lot more reasonable and it doesn't have to take an hour.

Posted by JIHADJOE on August 6, 2010 at 2:27 a.m. #71

@37
> seeing footage of his student lose to Juicebox Abel and throw his controller illustrates how bad of a teacher he is.

I see his young padawan is learning well!

Posted by JIHADJOE on August 6, 2010 at 2:34 a.m. #72

@65
+1
It's a big difference being around someone who really knows what they're doing.

Even compared to playing and learning with your local community, there could be a big hole in your scene's dominant strategy that these experienced, well travelled players could easily pick apart. What you're really paying for, IMO is that distillation of information that these guys have collected from all those tournaments across the world.

An hour drinking JWong's super-concentrated man-juice, if you will. XD

Posted by Nukka on August 6, 2010 at 2:36 a.m. #73

@37
.....You know that vid was a joke right? It's not actually Gootecks's student. Don't understand the hate for him, he's doing alot more for the community then you haters.

Posted by rainstrife on August 6, 2010 at 2:37 a.m. #74

$40 to $50 dollars for learning how to pay a video game!? I can understand paying for guitar lessons, but SSFIV? It's a video game, come one. It be easier to just become friends with the guys and do it for free.

Posted by sethkillianfanboy on August 6, 2010 at 2:50 a.m. #75

This is a good sign the fighting game community is maturing.

Posted by Axefresh on August 6, 2010 at 2:54 a.m. #76

I can definitely see this appealing to some people though. There many players who go out and throw 150 bucks on an arcade stick and they only use it for like a a couple of minutes before giving up. There are a lot of people who want to be good, but are lazy and thoughtless. They want a method where they can be instantly good at this game, or at least given the idea that they can. "I got trained by a top player" gives you that sensation for an hour before you go back and play and realize you're in the same position as before.

Posted by MEANWHILE on August 6, 2010 at 3:03 a.m. #77

#74
I know hahaha.Was just taking the piss.

Posted by taavikas on August 6, 2010 at 3:04 a.m. #78

Another biweekly combo video from Maj :).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jn3c7w...

Posted by J on August 6, 2010 at 3:05 a.m. #79

Personally I think the community is helpful enough to its members already, but I suppose getting trained by these top players never hurts. I'd rather learn on my own, that's how they got started too right?

Posted by JumpMan33 on August 6, 2010 at 3:12 a.m. #80

I swear I read $35/hour for Jwong, and &30 for Marn on their twitter pages. And I remember gootecks/mike being 20-25 or something around there.

Posted by Error on August 6, 2010 at 3:14 a.m. #81

Mike Ross, Marn, and Gootecks are just pissed that the've played for hundreds of hours and there not making much money like Diago.

Once you take something you love and make the main focus about some cash it becomes a job. And no matter how much you love your job, sometimes you just rather be doing something else than be at work.

Posted by Axefresh on August 6, 2010 at 3:27 a.m. #82

@82

Yeah you're right. I posted here to show that a couple of times.

They raised the rates for the hustle. If people want to play video games with you that badly why not take them for everything they got.

Posted by CrimsoNemesis on August 6, 2010 at 3:39 a.m. #83

It's funny how some of these players ofter talk about the need for the USA/EU communities to step up, share ideas and work together to catch up with Japanese players. Then again, ideas such as paying for SFIV lessons pop up. And it's not cheap either, 50 bucks? Come on... That's what you call a double standard.
Gootecks has come up with a lot of good ideas and initiatives to help the fighting community (specially newcomers), but this is definitely a step back.

Posted by TheCreator on August 6, 2010 at 3:44 a.m. #84

Ummmm i like all these players except marn lol but yeah $50 an hour for jwong who lost to gamerbee?? an adon he said sucks?? ummmmmmmmm no thanks..f**k off i rather learn from gamerbee -_-

Posted by Troppop on August 6, 2010 at 3:53 a.m. #85

No offence, but this is a pretty retarded service.
Ofc, it's awesome to get advice and tips from a skilled tournament player. But paying 40-50$ per hour for something you can just google and find in a random forum.
But yeah, they'll probably get alot of customers. I mean, people are still paying for random crappy softwares for their phones.

Posted by SomeDude on August 6, 2010 at 4:15 a.m. #86

The only people that are going to pay are either fanboys or lazy people who can't put enough time themselves into the game to get decent at it.

Sure you can get lessons from these pro's but that doesn't mean they're actually good teachers.

Still..you gotta put in alot of hours yourself to get decent at the game.

I agree that this service is ridiculous,heck,they're literally wh*ring SSF4 out.

Mister,mister--50 bucks for a good time! Me play you long time!

Posted by Throwryuken on August 6, 2010 at 4:17 a.m. #87

Didn't gootecks already do a kick ass rog tutorial on YouTube already for free

Posted by MikeRoss on August 6, 2010 at 4:22 a.m. #88

Just wanna say that I was asked if I would be interested to do this. "yo mike, wanna train people for money?" me: "uhm, sure why not?"

And yo, if someone messages me asking to get better and doesn't have a dime to their name i'm not gonna be a piece of feces and turn them down. gtfo. but hey if you wanna rub my shoulders for 5-10 minutes i'll take the exchange :).

Whether 0 people wanna do this or 500, I won't lose any sleep (well unless it is 500 then I guess I won't be gettin any sleep).

Posted by Lue on August 6, 2010 at 4:24 a.m. #89

If there exists a market for it they have every right to do it. That's it anyone who says otherwise is a jealous buttwind.

Posted by TheMasterPlayer on August 6, 2010 at 4:26 a.m. #90

So it's finally come to this huh? People making business out of playing street fighter...

Personally, I don't see the point in paying someone to teach me to get "better". Like many people here have already mentioned. Street fighter is a game where only constant practice and playing against other people (especially now that we have online play) is the only way to really improve and learn in the long run.

But to each's own I guess. It's another way for these "pro" players to generate income.

Oh and like others have already pointed out. For those interested, only take these lessons if you already have a sufficient enough knowledge about the mechanics of the game (translation: don't even consider signing up if you're a complete beginner and know nothing about the fundamentals).

Posted by Cammy on August 6, 2010 at 4:29 a.m. #91

I see no problem. I don't belive it works, though. With everything you can find for free on the web, there's definitevely no short of knowledge on how to improve.

It's all about having the skills and reflexes. Something that may be aquired in time, with practice, but cannot be simply teached.

So I have nothing against the idea, and I really think those guys are very smart to make money from this. I just wouldn't pay for it myself.

Posted by Nyoronoru on August 6, 2010 at 4:31 a.m. #92

40 to 50 dollars an HOUR? My guitar lessons were incredibly cheaper and more rewarding.

Also training someone online is very annoying and usually doesn't help your metagame or execution. When I taught my friends how to play SSF4 I was right there next to them so that they could watch and listen to me in real time.

My view: too expensive, kind of elitist, and a counter to the free, open information that the SSF4 community needs to hear.

Posted by Nyoronoru on August 6, 2010 at 4:34 a.m. #93

Oh, and while I disapprove of Catalyst directly linking to their pages, I hilariously approve of the picture used in the article.

Only a true boxer can type on a keyboard and hold onto wads of cash while wearing his gloves.

Posted by samuraix025 on August 6, 2010 at 4:39 a.m. #94

anyone who isn't going to a tourney paying for more than an hour needs friends. and no matter what anyone says Gootecks knows what he's doing and he damn good at it. btw if it weren't for him evo probably would have went salty suite free. nor would we have cross counter, so quit being douches

Posted by RA_MO on August 6, 2010 at 4:42 a.m. #95

I promise that if I ever improve... I will never charge for lessons. Friendship is more than enough. Now I have to get my ps3 working again. The blinking red light finally got it...

Posted by OhYouDontSayThat on August 6, 2010 at 4:51 a.m. #96

sca sca sca scaaaaaam

pay if you want 2, nooobs

Posted by NJCU on August 6, 2010 at 4:52 a.m. #97

That money is better spent going to tournaments. You will learn just as much and if you are observant, probably faster.

Posted by Lue on August 6, 2010 at 4:58 a.m. #98

Wages are a function of preferences, not fairness. With that being said, though it may not be the best thing for the community (if the desire is to share information), it is definitely not a bad idea for themselves if they have some belief that people are willing to pay that much for their assistance.

Let them give the lessons. Whatever it does to their reputation and the community (good or bad) is irrelevant to whether or not they aught to do it.

Posted by PhinnyCupcakes on August 6, 2010 at 5:06 a.m. #99

on jwong's facebook it says hes doing it for $35.. ?

Posted by NJCU on August 6, 2010 at 5:09 a.m. #100

They been doing this in Halo for years. From what Ive read from that comunity, there is a market for this service.

Posted by Blanks on August 6, 2010 at 5:14 a.m. #101

I like the idea and thought it was actually kind of cheap. An AVERAGE English as a Second Language tutor gets upward of $40 an hour for private lessons. And these are some of the best players in the country.

While it would be ridiculous to think that you'll end up earning the money back through tournaments at some point, if you're a fan of the game and the players, it might just be a cool experience.

I figure if you have $50 bucks to spend and wondered what it'd be like to spar/get tips from a pro, why not?

Posted by RunningWild on August 6, 2010 at 5:21 a.m. #102

Just for lulz I am gonna pay Gootecks to teach me and goof off during the entire training session and get him to rage throw his stick.

I think that's 40 bucks well spent.

Posted by Biowulf on August 6, 2010 at 5:22 a.m. #103

Nothing wrong with this, it's actually relatively cheap to be learning from some of the best players out there.

That said, I wouldn't do it, but that's because I'm not looking to compete.

Posted by FREESTYLE on August 6, 2010 at 5:23 a.m. #104

no it is not worth it and all u should do is just practice practice practice make perfect how do u think they got there not by learning by paying tomo for lessons lol no just practice

Posted by barcaxavi on August 6, 2010 at 5:31 a.m. #105

I think im gonna pay Justin Wong those 50 bucks just to be able to ask him questions on how to achieve that awesome hairstyle of hes, grease ftw. Also, all I would do is play Adon the whole time and put the "Gamerbee vs J.wong" match on the background.

Posted by FarkAydeGhil420 on August 6, 2010 at 5:45 a.m. #106

Its only worth it to the regulars at tournies that would have spent the 40 on entering tournaments and never placing in money.

Posted by Biowulf on August 6, 2010 at 5:48 a.m. #107

It's not worth it to pay 30 bucks to play some of the best? Should tell people that when they go and drop 100 bucks in money matches.

Just because you think it's not worth it, doesn't mean everyone does. There's easily plenty of reasons to pay this if you're interested in playing SF competitively, especially against Jwong or Marn.

I'm not advertising for them, but it's silly to sit here and write it off because you're not open minded.

Posted by Axefresh on August 6, 2010 at 5:55 a.m. #108

@110 You are right. The opening post is written at a slant, like advertising. Instead of "What do you think?" it's "Doesn't seem to be anything wrong with this: post what you think"

@112
bad comparison. Not everyone bets that much on money matches. And people drop money on money matches because they genuinely think they're going to double what ever it is that they're gambling.

Posted by PhinnyCupcakes on August 6, 2010 at 5:58 a.m. #109

@106
I'd totally do that as well.

Posted by xShonuffx on August 6, 2010 at 5:58 a.m. #110

@110

They are not comparing a Video Games to Guitars. They are just saying for example, taking video game lessons (Specific game) in order to play better would be a lot like taking Guitar Lessons to learn how to play a Guitar. Basicaly the exchange for services and goods is the same. My dad takes Guitar Lessons for 15$ a half hour or 30 Dollars an Hour.

Most people are not looking at the small picture in the big picture. The lessons is basically WHAT YOU WANT TO GET OUT OF IT! It's not saying that playing Justin Wong for 1 hour a week is gonna make you good enough to beat him, it just might make you stronger than the average player. Most people don't get to play Pro's and best of all your getting raw honest advice on how to step your game up. (Assuming his method of teaching is solid of course).

You could be taking the lessons to just strengthen your overal mind games. Your focus and execution. You don't have to make it a full time career but if your good enough you could enter a few local tournaments and win maybe 500 bucks here a 1000 there. Small prizes in comparison to EVO and such. You can be good enough to win money matches, hustle some extra cash. But again it's what you want to take from the lessons. It does'nt ahve to be a job replacer.

People on eventhubs is not warped you just think your better than everyone because you actually play a guitar but the truth is no one here really cares wha tyou do, everyone is just voicing their opinion and some are just open to the idea. Nothing is written in stone here that we have to do this.

Posted by Loki on August 6, 2010 at 6:06 a.m. #111

@110
Yes, because everyone that's ever learned how to play guitar has become successful.Have you been to Youtube? Take a look at how many talented but essentially unnoticed people there are on there. The phrase "starving artist" had to come from somewhere...

Posted by RyteOne on August 6, 2010 at 6:07 a.m. #112

@WalksWthThunder I agree ..learning a guitar is waaaayyyy harder than learning SF or VS or any fighting game.Learning and perfecting an instrument can take years.Best way to learn SF is through trail and error and hours of game play against hard competition. No matter how much you learn from some one on sf there is all ways more to be learned , you can't teach mind games. They will be making some good $$$ off of this so good for them I suppose.

Posted by PinkPwnageFrenzy on August 6, 2010 at 6:07 a.m. #113

Yeah, they're making money, that's cool and all, I respect that. I don't like how they're selling info though instead of sharing it. Or maybe the do, I don't know how their deal works. People wonder why we're so far behind Japan, stuff like this probably doesn't help.

And @ people that are getting offended by this being compared with guitar lessons...really people? To play an instrument, you train for years. You learn a piece, and that never changes. Maybe you can add your own stuff or something. Fighting games matches are never the same twice, you have to learn your character, learn your matchups, and learn people's playstyles. In playing an instrument, you never have to duel against a different instrument. Unless you play like, free form jazz or something.

These guys have been playing competitive games for years, they're even more experienced than your instrument teacher, most likely, in comparison to their fields. They go out and win money for doing what they do, does your teacher do that?

Posted by benjee on August 6, 2010 at 6:20 a.m. #114

Ppl who would pay to learn from marn and wong should be banned from online gaming.

Posted by JEABOI on August 6, 2010 at 6:26 a.m. #115

I don't think I would pay to learn from these guys. It's kinda silly if you ask me. I don't mean to be a hater but these guys really need to stop milking Street Fighter for money and work on a career lol :S

Posted by deltaxdeltap on August 6, 2010 at 6:36 a.m. #116

I think people who are upset by the idea of paid lessons for this game are being completely unreasonable. It's not as if Gootecks, Mike Ross, JWong, or Marn aren't aware that there are already tons of free online ways to improve your game: go to gootecks website. There's tons of free information available there. All of these guys generate tons of content for the community to learn from, and all you have to do to access it is look. What they're offering is a supplement, and if you have the money to take them up on it, and you're interested, then you should by all means.

Also, at the people who think $40-50 is too much to spend on lessons: how much did you spend on dlc for the game? What's the cost of a lesson relative to that?

Posted by Pein on August 6, 2010 at 6:51 a.m. #117

This is what I call a SCAM in broad daylight

I dont feel sorry for any retard paying them that money for a useless hour.

To the "top players", stop whore-ing yourself and get a real job

Posted by KOG on August 6, 2010 at 7:12 a.m. #118

If you want to get better, go on SRK, find you region play people in your state and level up for freeeeeeeeeeeeee.
I live about 3 hrs away from flash metroid, who doesn't charge people to lvl up, i can get rog practice from jebailey who beat ricky o, and there are plenty of people were i live who play weekly. HANDS ON!!!!!!!!

If you want to spend 40 dollars, send it my way and you can practice all your rape combos on a scrub!!!!< Insert sarcasm here

Posted by omegax9000 on August 6, 2010 at 7:13 a.m. #119

@121 Having your own opinion doesnt make you a hater fuk theses retards,I can tell you the secret to successes hard work! and practice! Don't waste your money on this bull_sh1t.

Posted by caruga on August 6, 2010 at 7:16 a.m. #120

Someone buy a lesson and then report on youtube how it went.

Posted by ProdThaGreat on August 6, 2010 at 7:23 a.m. #121

Ok people seriously like wow. Somtimes i think eventhubs post some stupid shiz up seriously. Tha fact that people want 50for an hour of sf is insane! The sf scene is getting to big for its head. These people should be doing special raffles of somthing if there trying to make the scene bigger. Not charge 50 bucks for a hour when theres people with as much knowledge as them in local scenes or online. Go to tournys and meet people train up youl get good on your own. If your hungry you can mmake anything happen. But on a quick side note, Ive played people from drchaos to valle in rank and they were nice enough to give me a set after. Not just those two either. IL b damnd if i pay another person for a friggin video game they play like me.Also your comparing sf to guitar???? LOLOL pls sf while very skillfull to play is more like chess or checkers. NOT A GOOD EXAMPLE EVENTHUBS

Posted by PrimalHunter on August 6, 2010 at 7:24 a.m. #122

Justin wong will probably be eating through the whole thing

And gootecks will talk about his ego the whole time even though he sucks and hasnt made like top 100 in a long time.

Posted by Biowulf on August 6, 2010 at 7:45 a.m. #123

All of the people mad at this are pretty self-centered. If you don't like the idea, you're more than welcome to not purchase a session.

It's out there for people who are interested.

Posted by Nyoronoru on August 6, 2010 at 7:59 a.m. #124

Think of it like this. If you had a friend who was interested, would you recommend this payment? Naturally not, unless you really don't like your friend and desire to see him throw money away.

I see it as a service and reassurance to the Eventhubs posters to agree with the negative and definitely true side of the argument, that this is a definitely not a productive way to spend your money or time. Do you agree, or not?

Posted by otter on August 6, 2010 at 8:03 a.m. #125

"The point is...it used to be 30 dollars an hour. Justin Wong wasn't any less of a top player before. The prices being this high now is a big F.U. to the fans."

can we please not start using the term "fans"? its embarrasing enough that people are saying "pro gamer".

Posted by Biowulf on August 6, 2010 at 8:04 a.m. #126

If their profession is to play videogames and win tournaments to make income, then they are a pro-gamer.

Posted by Dark_Fantom on August 6, 2010 at 8:08 a.m. #127

If they did in fact get paid $50 an hour for this, and worked at it like a full time job (i.e 5 days a week 8 hours a day), they'd be making a 6 figure income. That doesn't seem right at all.

Personally I think they should be charging MUCH less than that, maybe something like $20 - $25 an hour, especially considering it's over xbox live.

Posted by Biowulf on August 6, 2010 at 8:12 a.m. #128

Riding the cock, that's a good one. I already said I wouldn't buy the lessons, I just find it funny that teens like you are so pissed off other people can spend their money the way they want while you sit in poverty.

Enjoy being a bitter, angst filled person while some people enjoy getting what they want.

Ciao.

Posted by DarkDream on August 6, 2010 at 8:12 a.m. #129

Wow. This is a damn shame. $50 an hour? Sorry. The GAME didn't cost that much.

Posted by Amnesiac on August 6, 2010 at 8:20 a.m. #130

I find it funny how Wong and Marn are also teaching how to play Abel.
I wouldn't wanna learn/improve my Abel unless it was someone like Rico Suave, who specialized in that specific character.

Posted by Banzai on August 6, 2010 at 8:29 a.m. #131

MY FIGHT MONEEEEYYYY !!!

Posted by ThatJoshGuy on August 6, 2010 at 8:34 a.m. #132

HAHAHAH this is lame.

I mean, grats to the "pros" who get suckers to pay for this service, but seriously?

You are much better off learning from your peers and simply paying attention when watching your own replays.

Go read up on your character's strategies or watch vids of players that would probably beat you, using your character and fighting against your char.

If these "pros" were your friends they wouldnt charge you, so make some friends in the fighting community instead.

Yet if you still feel you need that extra competitive edge, then get someone who won't charge you to give you good feedback on your gameplay.

I'm not a pro in terms of being a tournament winning player, but i can do a better evaluation than what i saw in those vids.

If you spend alot of time watching vids online and you can be honest with yourself about your shortcomings you can easily self evaluate.

Anyone paying for this service is a fool.

If you treat me like a fellow human ill do it BETTER and FREE.

Posted by bananainsaneface on August 6, 2010 at 8:39 a.m. #133

Getting lessons from Justin Wong this is honestly a bargain.

Posted by SethGravijah on August 6, 2010 at 8:42 a.m. #134

Totally depends on their teaching potential and aptitudes.

Regarding the idea, I have no problem. Having a one hour guitar lesson (even with clapton) won't make you a guitarist, yet it may help looking in the right direction for more efficent future improvements.

Regarding the price : pretty expensive for some random kid... though not that much regarding the one you speak to. I guess.

Well, really no problem as the internet is full of pretty valuable free things.

Posted by jjohan35 on August 6, 2010 at 8:47 a.m. #135

Great players don't necessarily translate great instructors.

Posted by ssjkiego on August 6, 2010 at 8:58 a.m. #136

to be completely honest, i only think it would be worth it to take notes from the champ himself.

Posted by tempesta1229 on August 6, 2010 at 9:01 a.m. #137

The things people are saying about these lessons could be applied to ANYTHING that people take lessons for. Wanna learn a language? Why waste money? Just find a person from that country and chat with them. Wanna learn guitar? Just watch Jimi Hendrix play and copy him. SFIV is a very technical game. I play guitar and can tell you that the disparity in difficulty is not that big.

Some things like OS are unseen, so watching videos doesn't necessarily show you everything.

@ThatJoshGuy You say just find someone who will help you for free, and you act as if that's so simple. Nobody I know even plays this game. By calling someone a fool for taking lessons in SFIV you're calling anyone who takes lessons in general a fool. Hell, people take various dancing lessons all the time and I guarantee SFIV is more difficult than salsa dancing.

It's no different than learning guitar. Will you learn faster watching a video, then later trying to reproduce what you've seen, or will you learn faster sitting and playing with someone who has mastered the instrument?

Posted by CONSTvariable23 on August 6, 2010 at 9:06 a.m. #138

My initial inclination is to think this is a total ripoff. About the only worthwhile thing I can imagine somebody getting out of this is better knowledge of how to fight their instructor, should they ever meet in a tournament. I'm sure there are a lot of people who will spring for it, but come on, use your head. They're banking on the implicit assumption that taking lessons from the best players will dramatically improve your game, but who's to say they're good teachers? Or that whatever qualities make them great can even be taught, much less taught in a few hours? There are thousands of people out there who try to imitate the thought processes of Jwong, Daigo etc., and it never really brings them to the next level.

And maybe I'm just cynical, but I kind of think these guys know that, and don't care because they're going to get paid.

Posted by akumous on August 6, 2010 at 9:18 a.m. #139

I find this as an extreme insult the gaming community and the SF community. Greed is going to ruin this community if allow these guys to get away with it - and they can only get away with it once we succumb and pay for these lessons.

SF is one of those games you learn from trial and error and observation. The key thing is knowing why you lost and what you did wrong and thanks to technology and SF's reply save feature, it is so easy to analyze your matches and observes top players matches whether through the game or youtube.

Those guys, Mike Ross, Gootechs, and Justin Wong are in this for the money and for themselves.

Posted by lynx_vega on August 6, 2010 at 9:19 a.m. #140

neeee I dont need that, anyway there no lessons for vega? xD
Still learning from my battles online ;)

Posted by Sektah84 on August 6, 2010 at 9:21 a.m. #141

In my opinion you can go online view some videos,read up on strategies,post up on forums etc etc. At the end of the day it's all about getting out there and practicing for yourself as well. You can also meet and speak to some people you meet while playing online. $40-$50 lol I'll pass but some folks will do it though.

Posted by Gorav on August 6, 2010 at 9:27 a.m. #142

I would pay just to play with the top players no matter how many graphs or charts you read you will never have the experence fighting some of the top torney players would also make you know what youre going to be heading into and it would feel great to beat them.

Posted by Psycho on August 6, 2010 at 9:31 a.m. #143

what a scam, it's all I have to say.

Posted by Shep131 on August 6, 2010 at 9:32 a.m. #144

as with everything else, if uve got the talent and you can get away with it then go for it

Posted by Shep131 on August 6, 2010 at 9:36 a.m. #145

and tempesta1229 is right :)

Posted by IKARI on August 6, 2010 at 9:37 a.m. #146

dude this is street fighter. who needs to learn how to play the most basic fighting game ever?

Posted by Makoto_is_sexy on August 6, 2010 at 9:38 a.m. #147

who ever gets lessons from marn ask him what happened in houston at midnight comics....

dude m arn had like a 32 win streak on these scrubs.. so i was like let me play..i totally trashed marns dudley,,,not his viper or rufus...but i murdered his dudley...to the point were he was getting scared and throwing out random ex dps....i started lkaughing out of discuss....and this dude raged left the venue hhahaha..everytime i see marn on stream i ask him why'd did he leave so fast then i magically get banned...i use to love marn man..but he sucks as a person... marn is from texas maan and he doest represent us like a lil %^%&*%*%&...
my stream name is Marns_right_boob im sure plent of you have seen it..

when ever you guy see marn on stream or know that he is playing...tell the comentators to ask marn what happened at midnight comics in houston

YO MARN...WHY DID YOU RAGE QUIT OH MY BAD WHY DID YOU RAGE LEAVE....WHAT HAPPENED AT MIDNIGHT COMICS MAN IN HOUSTON MAN

Posted by genocide_cutter on August 6, 2010 at 9:40 a.m. #148

maybe gootecks can teach how to smash a arcade stick

Posted by Makoto_is_sexy on August 6, 2010 at 9:41 a.m. #149

Well who is down for some free practice on XBL....My makoto needs to hit the weights....any gamertags...
i would appreciate the FREE sparring session...

Posted by PinkPwnageFrenzy on August 6, 2010 at 9:42 a.m. #150

@119
LOL TOTALLY TROLLED, GEE WHIZ YOU GOT ME GOOD.

@139
My point was it was ridiculous to be offended by a comparison. If there is something that is in the least bit complex, there will be books, lessons, etc. for it. I never said I was going to get them, and that I kinda looked down on them for not just sharing the information. But, I'd probably do the same if I were amazing at a thing.

Posted by INS on August 6, 2010 at 9:46 a.m. #151

From a business perspective charging this much is a bad idea.

- Not only does it make them seem greedy
- The prices will turn off a lot of potential consumers

If they want to make money doing this they should be smarter about it and lower their prices. They will look better for it and it will attract more consumers with the mindset of "$10 isn't too bad, I'll give it a shot". More importantly, it will encourage repeat lessons.

I'll gurantee they'll make more money charging $10 rather then $50. And you never know...it it catches on, then they can raise the prices. Baby steps boys...baby steps.

Posted by akumous on August 6, 2010 at 9:48 a.m. #152

Here is something that cannot ever be taught by anyone in the SF gaming pro community, ever. And this is the ability to outwit your opponent and read your opponent. Those things can't be taught, and can only be achieved through experience and the player's intelligence.

Street Fighter is a "thinking man's" game and the only reason those players, pro players, reached as far as they did because composed themselves during stressful environments and outwit their opponents.

The lessons they going to be teaching are lessons that can be learned online for free via youtube or any other average SF player. Everyone on this board or the majority of us on this board thinks this is scheme utter ridiculousness. I mean it is their prerogative if they want to charge for lessons but what if SRK.com and those other sites charge us to become a member on their page since those pages have vital information. It is just ridiculous!

Posted by Dreamrapture on August 6, 2010 at 9:49 a.m. #153

I think that if you have to pay guys for lessons in a fighting game like SSF4 you don't have what it takes to become really good to begin with, since you can't even learn the game properly by yourself.

Posted by Asgardwolf on August 6, 2010 at 9:50 a.m. #154

Hahaha this is ridiculous!
Money Suckers!

Posted by Makoto_is_sexy on August 6, 2010 at 9:51 a.m. #155

they willl never earn more charging 10 thats just plain out dumb.....i dont see anyone going over 10 hours a day first of all....just because i drop prices by 80 percent doesnt mean im increasing work hours by eighy percent...they would have to work 18 hours out of 24 hours just to keep up....maybe down the line the will drop prices some but not 80% man...thats like the clerance rack at a retail store....plus more hours you buy cheaper it is ...if thats true what i read above

Posted by Psycho on August 6, 2010 at 9:58 a.m. #156

#157 lemme guess, Tekken player? soul calibur player?

Posted by Shep131 on August 6, 2010 at 10 a.m. #157

everyone acts as thought this thing is gonna be totally mainstream, its like if ya wanna learn how to fly a private plane. very few people do it, they have enough money to blow and if daigo said he would do it for free online he would get spammed to hell, this kinda filters through the people who really really will do anything to get better and those who can cope on their own

Posted by JinZo on August 6, 2010 at 10 a.m. #158

Oh man! First thing I'm gonna do is get Justin to teach me how to play Adon!

Posted by Makoto_is_sexy on August 6, 2010 at 10:03 a.m. #159

dude street fighter is pretty basic.... and overall simple..which is not bad...part of the reason its so succesful and fun...look at sf3 they added uni overheads..two button grabs...ex moves... three super arts... and parrying then it instantly became advanced and people ran from it..blazblue, soul cal..vf5...doa..ect.. are really more advanced of fighting gam,es compared to streetfighter..not saying itsa bad just fact...they have higher learning curves....if they had a character like blazblues carl in street fighter with unblockable corner traps people would be like S tier broken in q uick fast..dude has a point man

Posted by Makoto_is_sexy on August 6, 2010 at 10:15 a.m. #160

lol you can buy 2 copies of ssf4 for you buddies and practice together for same price hahahahahah just talk crap

Posted by Gorav on August 6, 2010 at 10:18 a.m. #161

@166
Your third fact is totally wrong
example: Daigo, Wins a lot of money, he also is very well known, and there was a evo video where daigo was signing a girls boob. Your other facts I wouldnt know.

Posted by waynehead895 on August 6, 2010 at 10:20 a.m. #162

I have no problem with it as long as their is a Market for it. If some one wanted pay me to teach them how to take a poop properly then I probably would depending on the price.

Posted by CowboyBebopCrew on August 6, 2010 at 10:25 a.m. #163

Is it just me, or is $50 an hour a little too steep. How many people have that much money to invest in an hourly training basis in SSF4? I mean, I guess I could understand someone with money to spare doing it, but I definitely got other things (medical school apps, food, other games... lol) to spend it on.

-JB

Posted by gitaroh on August 6, 2010 at 10:40 a.m. #164

this is a great idea, specially if you can record the matches and conversation. Practicing by yourself will get you progress at a snails pace (unless you're talented). These guys will clearly know what you're doing wrong and can tell you about bad habits you will not find out by yourself.

Posted by omegax9000 on August 6, 2010 at 10:49 a.m. #165

jesus christ ppl keep your post under 500 words!

Posted by dtbighead0812 on August 6, 2010 at 10:54 a.m. #166

yea i think this is a terrible idea. but i guess u gotta do what u gotta do. its not like their lives depend on this, they're just putting the option out there for the few ppl (fanboys) who will throw their money at a chance to play them. i truly dont think it will make u better. because if you are desperate enough to take lessons you probably arent that good to begin with, and will get utterly destroyed, and no one learns by losing in 15 seconds. whatever advice they give u can probly be learned by observing your own replays, or even putting them on youtube and let others comment. at the end of the day, i think youll benefit more from playing someone at your same/ slightly higher skill level.. OFFline

Posted by Bookerjj on August 6, 2010 at 11:09 a.m. #167

I think this is a cool idea, for people that want to get better. I am reading some comments some people are taking the lessons the wrong way.

This is no different than athlete paying extra money to learn from someone better than them, If Micheal Jordan offered this services to train i do not see anything wrong with that. Its not like you're going to stop working hard and training you are still going to put in work, just with someone with better knowledge of the game.

That applies to this also, reading some comments people tend to think, you have to be stupid to do this because you just more practice and playing and you will get better, That is true but that doesn't make them stupid. Its not like this will be their only training. For people to pay for this, they may really want to take this serious, so they will still be training hard and every day, just with someone better, honestly its pretty smart if you have the time and money to try and get better at something they want to do.

Don't know why people like to come a video game website, want to put other people down by calling them stupid, nerds and losers, for doing something they like. Yet, they are here taking time out of their life to comment on such things O.o

Posted by RiXindaMiX on August 6, 2010 at 11:11 a.m. #168

50$ an hour?? are you kidding me? I know people with their masters degree that don't even make that much an hour.. you gotta be joking.. for 2 hours is more like it.. you can't teach a mind game.. you can add on to your own ideas..
now if its something like teaching frame data then thats a different story, but i'm sure you can't do that in an hour of online play.. these guys are good at the game, but is it really worth it to pay $50 just so you can beat a few more people?

Posted by Omni0 on August 6, 2010 at 11:11 a.m. #169

I don't think it's wrong at all... I mean I personally wouldn't do it... not for $50/hr at least but if you got the money to burn and are too lazy to look up SRK and EventHubs and SonicHurricane then by all means go for it.

Personally I don't believe there is much they can teach you that is not already out there for free in some way, shape, or form... not for $50/hr at least. I'd do it for maybe $20 maybe even $30/hr but $50 seems a bit much for me... I'm just not THAT lazy... but maybe I'm being a cheap a*****e that should go back to the poorhouse who knows...

Posted by FREE1UP on August 6, 2010 at 11:24 a.m. #170

IS THIS SERIOUS? REALLY? HAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Posted by nasar123 on August 6, 2010 at 11:24 a.m. #171

@166 yes you are absolutely right

but all these street fighter guys are doing is providing a service , any one who signs up for this service however should not have been born on this cursed sphere as their pea sized intellect is not worthy to persevere on this planet .

and who ever compares learning a beautiful art such as playing the piano , harp , guitar ect ect to learning a video game..... in which they are probably going to end up a pot monster as all the top players are videogame crackfiends who literally do not choose to spend the precious time they have left doing something productive .....should get a royal thump to their cranium .

Posted by FREE1UP on August 6, 2010 at 11:28 a.m. #172

Its not wrong to offer this but its ridiculous to accept it since everything they'll say is online in various forms. Anyone even remotely intermediate knows they dont need training from some big name player to get better. Only the ones that think they have no hope will do this when they need to be playing some other game.

Posted by Error on August 6, 2010 at 11:36 a.m. #173

Just because these guys are great at street fighter doesn't mean these guys are great teachers.

Posted by Nori on August 6, 2010 at 11:43 a.m. #174

For the people that say "in japan they teach you for free", that is probably true. However, we have a MASSIVE amount of people that play here. They can't take everybody under their wing. There are people who have zero offline good comp around them. There are also people obvlious to how to improve and they get stuck at a certain point. I don't think anybody should be upset about this. If you know how to improve yourself for free, awesome. However, clearly as most of you can see online, lots of people are pretty bad. If they teach people, cool

Posted by spotlesseden on August 6, 2010 at 11:45 a.m. #175

i don't have problem with it. US is a free trade country.
they offer service, either you want it or don't.

but Gootecks should be $20 an hour. ^^

Posted by spotlesseden on August 6, 2010 at 11:48 a.m. #176

This is no different than not so good players try to money match against Daigo. that;s even more expensive. more like 10-15mins for $50

Posted by Hitstick on August 6, 2010 at 11:49 a.m. #177

LULZ This is ridiculous, why would anyone pay money to learn how to play video games and get tips from other people? Tips that you can learn and find out on your own or playing against people who are just as good and better?
This isn't even serious, paying people over a video game it is a waste. Play the game and learn yourselves ladies and gentlemen. These guys just put in the hours to be so called "top players," anyone else that has the desire these guys have can be just as good and better with the time put in. Why pay for info you can get with time instead of wasting money on things you can find out on your own?

There is no secret to being good it is dedication not paying other people to teach you something so simple.

Posted by FREE1UP on August 6, 2010 at 11:49 a.m. #178

@#188 lolz at the Gootecks remark hahahaha

Posted by mustain21 on August 6, 2010 at 11:57 a.m. #179

First things first, W T F is gootecks (a.k.a Goosucks) doing on that list. Let's be honest, he's not just the weakest link, he stinks.

Next, paying someone to teach you to play SF is like paying someone to teach you how to be an athlete. Becoming an athlete requires lotsa training, that's mostly it. Being good at fighting games requires lotsa practice. ANYONE, and I mean ANYONE can quit their job and school like Wong, and start winning tournaments.

Paying someone like Wong to teach you to play SF is like paying someone to give you a shortcut to things that take time to learn. Not very smart.

I had people in Japan teach me certain tricks like "roll cancel" in CVS2, for free. And they were way better than any of these "masters" that are charging for lessons.

But at the end of the day, some stupid and/or spoiled mofos are still gonna pay the fee just to get to talk to Wong and Marn and whatnot. Whatever floats your boat.

Posted by Shep131 on August 6, 2010 at 12:04 p.m. #180

If I were to sum up all these comments it would pretty much be that whether u mind them doing it or not no-one on here will actually pay for it. lol

Posted by PeterTheBohemian on August 6, 2010 at 12:12 p.m. #181

Truth:

+ Gootecks can most likely wreck everyone who's hating on him here. Regardless of how well he's done in tournaments recently, he's still done better than everyone here.

+ Don't judge other people's purchases. You think paying for lessons is dumb? You've never made a purchase that others think is idiotic? Farmville, new shoes/clothes, newest tech stuff, etc.

+ I really don't get the argument that you shouldn't learn from other people and that SF is a game where you should learn and grow on your own. I'm not going to argue that learning and growing isn't part of SF, of course it is, but you're going to make so many mistakes along the way, why not get some outside help if you can? It's not like, after the coaching, you're automatically a top level player. They'll help you with the giant mistakes you're doing, but it's still up to you to refine your gameplay.

+ Yes, you could probably learn the stuff they did too if you put in the time. You can say that about EVERYTHING IN LIFE. Doesn't mean you should do everything on your own. I could teach myself physics without a book through trial and error, but why not skip the thousands of years of testing and read up on what other people learned so I can expand on it? I can figure out my own strategies in basketball and come on the court with some horrible mechanics and strategies similar to the 60's, or someone who's been playing basketball for years can teach me the basics.

Posted by RandomJohn on August 6, 2010 at 12:24 p.m. #182

I guess it's worth it if you're in the same mindset as these instructors are....play every tourney you can possibly can. If you're just playing for fun (like most people do) just watching tourneys online and clips is enough to be good to compete with friends. Investing that much money just to be good for friends isn't worth it imo (unless you have money or someone else's money to burn).

Posted by umad on August 6, 2010 at 12:34 p.m. #183

if people want to pay for it then let them. who gives a fck? would i? eff no. i wouldn't do it for a buck.

Posted by Jaybonaut on August 6, 2010 at 12:35 p.m. #184

@FREE1UP hey Lance, keep working on Guy man, it's fun to watch you figure him out.

Posted by Shep131 on August 6, 2010 at 12:36 p.m. #185

the amount of metaphores to explain this is amazing lol

Posted by SoulHoe on August 6, 2010 at 12:37 p.m. #186

Interesting to say the least. Not for me, however.

Posted by DarkBurialX on August 6, 2010 at 12:37 p.m. #187

I rather not because I can watch tourneys that can help me learn my mistakes or match ups even though I still suck at the game. The problems I have is chaining combos, canceling normals, match ups, and being patient. I don't want to waste my money just to improve.

Posted by MRxDoWork on August 6, 2010 at 12:39 p.m. #188

What the hell happened to doing the footwork yourself, and getting good on ur own? Next, everyone's gonna have the same style, and thats gonna kill the fight game scene AGAIN. There's so many paths to become a good or even a great SF player, like getting the basics from other fourms out there. Not to mention, 50$ bucks an hour to play a f**king game. Seriously, whoever came up with that idea can eat a d**k. I bet these guys didnt pay 50$ an hour to get good. Put in the time and effort, and you'll feel alot better when u get that tourney win or when you've learned sooo much that u can pick someones style apart. I wonder if that 50$ an hour includes learning how to adapt or strategize, probablly not, maybe thats extra. Screw gootecks, jwong, marn or whoever thinks they can just pimp the gaming community, like they started this s**t. It's laughable, very laughable.

Posted by derobird on August 6, 2010 at 12:40 p.m. #189

I could see this working for people that need a boost into taking their gaming to the next level and for experience, but even then....you just don't know.

Still, people have to make (more)income, so this is just another way of branching out, hopefully egos don't get in the way though......

Posted by MrOzZie on August 6, 2010 at 12:47 p.m. #190

1.As far as I know the Japanese players share secrets,advice,tips strategies for free amongs each other,(there should be no reason to charge players by the hour when you have youtube and srk)you would have to be mentally retarded to pay for lessons in a game like this where you have to use reactions and adapt your own strategy to win. Learning your own unique style of gameplay with the hours you put in, helps you get better.

2.This is just another gimmick by Gootecks to try to pimp and milk the community for yet more money,if you want to help us out dont start trying to pimp us by the hour man.40.00 $ a lesson,what is this, piano lessons ???? LoL!!!! are you serious ????? LoL !!!!! No offense to Gootecks but he is no pro at this game and should not even try to bank of us,he never made top 8 at evo,Im not a pro either but I would not charge people for advice,that could be shared for free.Don't pay for advice,unless you want to get pimped by Gooteck and his buddies.

3.The time to you put in is what you get back.Gootecks is just a guy trying to profit anyway he can of the community.That 40 $$$$ could put gas in your car and buy groceries for a week.

Posted by MrOzZie on August 6, 2010 at 12:59 p.m. #191

Another thing I want it to point out : SSF4 is a game that requires over hundreds of hours of dedication to be at pro level,if you want to warrant your time to be at pro level,you have to put in the OT(Overtime)in a game like this to keep up with Wong and company,1 hour 2 hours 3 hors 4 hours at 40 $$$$ an hour is not going to cut it.What you put in is what you get back,Again this is extortion by Gootecks and his buddies to charge that kind of money.Thats why the game has practice mode.

Posted by riku45 on August 6, 2010 at 1:03 p.m. #192

lol please please dont waste money on this. That 40-50$ could buy you a game, shopping, gas for your car, pay your bills or used to learn something more constructive like a musical instrument..since that will actually improve your brain to help with all aspects of life :)

Posted by Lolento on August 6, 2010 at 1:10 p.m. #193

@#60 RZero
Very well-put.

Posted by SmashBros101 on August 6, 2010 at 1:22 p.m. #194

Gootecks is the master of stick throwing! Learn to throw your stick in a furious rage only for 40$, pay more to learn more advanced stick throwing. Example, 100$ for Nerd Rage+FADC into Stick Throw. So what are you waiting for? Sign up today and you'll be a master of stick throwing too!

Posted by MrOzZie on August 6, 2010 at 1:23 p.m. #195

Im not hating on Gootecks and company,I pretty much listen to his podcast and go to his site for his videos,but paying for advice in a game like this is just plain wrong,but if people want to pay,more power to them.That is just my opinion.

Posted by RandomJohn on August 6, 2010 at 1:29 p.m. #196

I want to add jwong and marn are once again trying to extort money from the SF community. That stunt with "please donate money to me so I can play SF in Europe" was embarassing enough to even ask. Now they're charging for lessons?!? Give me a break. Plus the fact they ask you to tell them what to teach you is like a $40/hr Q&A session. Having said this, I changed my mine. It's not worth it even if you're a consistent tourney player. Go watch clips and online tourneys, go to the practice room and learn your combos.

I am curious on how many fools will pay for this "service."

Posted by Bookerjj on August 6, 2010 at 1:33 p.m. #197

It's fine if you disagree with what they are trying to do, i can respect you'll opinion for that. But what i can't respect is some of you'll logic when you're being disrespectful to others, calling them stupid, idiots or what not.

For one, i take Art lessons, i am not an Art-est, nor do i plan to make money from it, i do it for fun, i enjoy drawing. i pay for lessons on something i want to get better at, They're are plenty of books, online videos, even torrents i could download and friends that are Art majors that could teach me about drawings for free. But i prefer to pay for my lessons its fun to me. People do stuff like this for anything in life for me its Art/drawing, for others it could be Music, sports, etc. Its not like me or others just stop with the lessons, i still draw on my own outside of my lessons, to get better, and i'm sure others do the same at what they do.

But listening to you guys if i replace my Art or whatever and put Video games there instead, its a different story, why can't the people who enjoy SSF4 and want to better themselves for something they enjoy, why they have to be stupid or idiots why can't they just enjoy what they do. You'll act like the people who get these lesson won't keep practicing and play other people besides their teacher for free, they probably do all of what you are mentioning, plus the added of these paid lessons.

You'll need to get off with the negative stigma about video games its just another form of entertainment, just because people passionate about doesn't make them losers, honestly a lot of people could say the same thing about you now, "why a bunch a geeks/losers go to a website to talk about Street Fighter its a stupid game" But you are here discussing it because in some form or way fashion you enjoy something about games.

(yeah I'm long winded)
And yes, there is a difference between disagreeing and "hating." When you give your opinion on the matter and its the opposite yes you're disagreeing, but when you give your opinion and put a negative angle on it, its "hating"

example:
I don't think Street fighter is good as Tekken = Disagreeing
Street fighter is for kiddie ass bitches, Tekken is a mans game = Hating

Posted by OmegaZero on August 6, 2010 at 1:35 p.m. #198

this have to be a joke, while i agree with the fact that competitive players with get a chance to fight them, i dont think this work in anyway, let us put some logic on this, if you the costumer pay for this that will mean that you either pay to simply prove what this give to your gameplay or your paying to prove yoursefl against the "best", their good, but it wont help that much.

to the community if you guys really want to get better in SSF4 you only need a few things, learn counter hits, priority, and mixup, thats it, and of course you have to be smart cause if your not your dead, but thats the whole thing about SSF4 there's nothing more on it, experience came by playing with diferent people, there's no reason for you to waste your money on this, however i dont see problem if anyone just want to play this guys to beat them.

Anyway i dont aprove this, but do want you want, im tired and i dont want to go any further with this issue

Posted by tokyobassist on August 6, 2010 at 1:42 p.m. #199

I think its time to get a real paycheck.

Posted by cuzzo on August 6, 2010 at 1:53 p.m. #200

like the Joker said "if your good at something, never do it for free" nothing wrong with these dudes makin money off their trade

Posted by Mark on August 6, 2010 at 2 p.m. #201

Justin Wong should pay $50 for someone to teach him the Adon matchup.

Posted by darko_p86 on August 6, 2010 at 2:03 p.m. #202

ok since ssf4 has no online training (which it should), wong or any of these clowns are going to have to teach you the actual moves in normal fight rounds. This means for the hour that you paid to learn some stuff, the KO or end of the round sequence plus selecting your character over again and all that stuff ends up to be actually less than an hour. You may only get a 45 minutes lesson with em for the price of the full 60 min. but get this...

why in the hell would you do some dumb sh!t like paying a for a lesson? and they are charging what, 30 per hour? are you crazy? i say this is just another way to sucker some money out of ppls hard earned pockets, just like they do with major tournaments. them lazy bums should get a damn job to know how hard it is just to get money in this world. charging for a lesson! that’s preposterous.

how would you inexperienced player even know the difference if they are teaching right from wrong? they could be bullSh!tting you for half an hour for WHAT? stuff that you can get either here at eventhubs, SRK or youtube.

Im saying heeeeelllll no to that.

Posted by VegaSota on August 6, 2010 at 2:27 p.m. #203

@ 16

YOUR RIGHT!!!

Posted by ThatJoshGuy on August 6, 2010 at 2:50 p.m. #204

Wow i love all the community reactions to this bull$hit.
at least most people see the insanity of paying extortion rates for streetfighter classes.

Still though, my offer stands to help ANYONE who is rational, not a douche etc, and wants to learn sf, ssf4, or sf3:3rdstrike.

Ill go over where your game is weak, what tactics you're not using when you could be, and the real reasons why you lose when you do, how to play mind games, and any other of the zillions of dimensions to this game that arent listed right there, that you could improve on.

Post a utube vid of your gameplay and ill respond in comments or repost with annotations or ill play you on xbox or for the best results, ill watch your replays and give you commentary.

Plus, ill do FOR FREE.
why? because i like sf and my fellow players, also i want to show how these peeps are being greedy as fuk. but hey, still, props to them for cashing in on the idiots.

Its time for the community to give back more to itself, not ca$h in.

Posted by LunaSlave on August 6, 2010 at 2:54 p.m. #205

I'm a go player - and taking lessons from a professional player is comparably priced.

In go, just taking lessons from a pro isn't enough - you need to play lots of games, you need to study, practice tsumego (puzzles/exercises) constantly, and budget your time efficiently so you get the most learning out of it. Street Fighter's the same.

Taking lessons from a pro is a good idea if you want to become a competitive player, but it should be a supplement to an already solid foundation of study, playing lots of games against a variety of opposition, and getting your technique down in training mode. It could be the icing on the cake for competitive players - but if all you're doing to improve is getting smashed by a pro for an hour without a routine to back it up and justify paying that money, it's more like a bowl of icing with no cake.

Posted by CMAyhem on August 6, 2010 at 2:57 p.m. #206

ROFLMAO i cant believe those FU(KING LOSERS have the audacity to do this!

THEY should have a lesson of "HOW TO BEAT THE JAPANESE" before asking for ppls money to teach online!!!

Posted by Marn on August 6, 2010 at 3:18 p.m. #207

Interesting.

Posted by SteadiestShark on August 6, 2010 at 3:38 p.m. #208

Gootecks is decent player with solid characters (granted, mostly with Balrog). Not to mention he does more for the scene than 99.99999999% of its playerbase.

I don't understand why people think he's so bad and hate him so much...

Posted by Axefresh on August 6, 2010 at 3:45 p.m. #209

I guess that makes sense why Gootecks wanted to go to Japan.
Learn for free over there, and come back and reap the profits from the kindness overseas.

Posted by okay on August 6, 2010 at 4:02 p.m. #210

I want Marn to teach me how to be random.

Posted by OhYouDontSayThat on August 6, 2010 at 4:31 p.m. #211

this is shamefull. these guys are just trying to get money from little kids online.

i could see justin wong or marn doing a scam like this, but not gootecks and mike ross....

its sad and wrong and the worst part is event hubs is even trying to defend them up there with their description
"Paying for guitar lessons or things along that nature are generally well accepted,... So is it any different that these guys are offering much the same thing?"

Posted by RandomJohn on August 6, 2010 at 5:01 p.m. #212

@221:

Eventhubs did not say it's the same thing as offering guitar or piano lessons. They're asking the fans if this is the same thing? That's why they're asking us to post our comments regarding this topic. To most of us, it's obviously not a good investment. One session (no matter how long the session is) will not be enough to change your game. I think the only thing these pros will get out of this is people who wants to play them online, not really a tuitoral from the pros. Just like when people paid to play Daigo at EVO which I think is weird haha. Anyone know how much people had to pay to play him? I'm just curious.

Posted by NissanZaxima on August 6, 2010 at 5:12 p.m. #213

This is completely pathetic. So much loss of respect for these guys.

Posted by 6ixx on August 6, 2010 at 5:13 p.m. #214

This thread made me LOL. It's very sad that top players would charge players cash for lessons. There is way too much information on the net for me to start paying people regardless of their level in tournaments cash to learn stuff that I can learn for free through countless youtube videos.

40-50 bucks per hr? LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL. They have lost their damn mind if there is any truth to it. They're famous but I wouldn't pay nearly that much. They'd be lucky if anyone pays them even 10-20 dollars per hr. It's not like they're actually doing work. Show me some degrees and I'll think about paying a outrageous price.

I feel bad for anyone who got scammed this hard.

Posted by NRR on August 6, 2010 at 5:28 p.m. #215

Skill comes with contemplation of errors, practice, repetition, repetition and more repetition, not paying someone offering a shortcut to fabricate skill. I'd possibly pay money for the chance to play casuals with these guys but isn't that what going to tournaments is for?

Despite my naysaying this whoring scheme will most likely pay off due to online chumps being gullible enough to buy in. All the tools for self-improvement are already out there for free between fight replays, strategy forums, and just asking for the community's input.

Posted by Creation_Scapes on August 6, 2010 at 6:11 p.m. #216

they aren't charging enough.

Posted by Gorav on August 6, 2010 at 6:17 p.m. #217

People are just repeating the same thing over and over again you just need to read the first ten and your good.

"It sucks there guides and videos"

"Its good to be able to pratice with some of the top players"
And you are done

Posted by RandomDP on August 6, 2010 at 6:21 p.m. #218

Damn this topic probably has the most comments I have ever seen on this site. But yea, I think most people agree that this is pretty much a scam and nothing more.

Posted by INS on August 6, 2010 at 6:29 p.m. #219

@ Makoto_is_sexy #163

The majority of the negative comments here are already about how steep the prices are for the limited services these players provide. There probably wouldn't be as much negative reaction if these guys had more reasonable prices.

Comparing there hourly rates too other more established professions and retail outfits is just ridiculous. This is basically a new experiment and for it to catch on and be widely accepted, they would have to start slow and charge cheap, instead of charging too much from the get go and just pissing off potential costumers.

Plus being a good player doesn't always coincide with being a good teacher.

Posted by mach1545 on August 6, 2010 at 6:29 p.m. #220

I'll have to pass. I honestly can't think of anything that is a bigger waste of money.

Posted by jesuslovessatan on August 6, 2010 at 6:37 p.m. #221

i think the price is fair. if you dont agree just dont pay and keep sucking ass. and to all those who say they can get the same advice through forums...yeah, everyone who checks them out are just madness in ssf4 (sarcasm if you dont get it). fact is nobody on this comment board aside from mike ross has even placed in a tourny or done anything other than troll. just my thoughts.

on a side note, id pay $20 just to play wong or ross or marn. theyre never in my part of the country so it would be cool (hint hint *cough* mike ross *cough* hit me up *cough*)

Posted by mustain21 on August 6, 2010 at 6:46 p.m. #222

@231 you said "i think the price is fair. if you dont agree just dont pay and keep sucking ass."

Really? So not paying for "lessons" by these guys means you will suck ass? Even if you go practice on your own, and get better the normal way like they did? I'm sorry man, but either you need to repeat your philosophy courses (if you ever took any) or you're working with these guys. Either way, what you said is just garbage.

Posted by Shredelicious on August 6, 2010 at 6:47 p.m. #223

There are some stupid people commenting on this board. It's so clear how long most of you have been playing fighting games. Most fighting games are fast paced chess games and if you plan on getting to a higher level you need a skilled and experienced player to show you the best offenses and defenses with your character.

There are plenty of things to learn on your own, but these guys wouldn't have gotten where they are without someone teaching them. It's worth it if you plan on taking your gaming somewhere.

Posted by MrOzZie on August 6, 2010 at 6:52 p.m. #224

If I remember correctly Gootecks received an xbox360 and a Ps3 donated to him by his fans,he was asking people to donate money through his podcast,so he could play Sf4 online on both consoles free without spending money of his own,just goes to show you how some people are,and the sad part is he will charge you money for online playing sessions with him !!!!!The balls of this f*cking guy!!!!,can you believe this scam????,Why not help out the players freely instead of trying to pimp them???Im not hating on Gootecks he has done a lot for the community,but this time he went to far with this 40.00 $$ an hour nonsense.Well its a free country he could do what ever he wants,as long as there are suckers out there to pay him to play.

Posted by Axefresh on August 6, 2010 at 6:55 p.m. #225

@231

Using that logic, do you think Mike Ross payed Justin Wong to become good with Honda? No, he became good by himself by playing the game. These lessons are just for nuthuggers who would drop a grand to breathe the same air as these guys.

Posted by MrOzZie on August 6, 2010 at 6:56 p.m. #226

Hey Gootecks go look for a real job.Instead of trying to extort the community man.I respect you man,but this time you are wrong for charging an excessive amount of money for lessons.

Posted by MrOzZie on August 6, 2010 at 6:58 p.m. #227

@#235
100% agreed :-)

Posted by Shredelicious on August 6, 2010 at 7:04 p.m. #228

If any of you were the best at anything, you would not give out your secrets for free!!

If all of the knowledge and skills these guys have are already out there on the internet in videos and guides, why are they still coming out on top so often?! Obviously they know things or have skill that isn't totally available. I thinks it's awesome that instead of keeping it to themselves so they keep coming out on top, they offer it to the community for a pretty fair price.

Top competitors in every major sport or activity (Pool, Archery, Football, Marksmanship, Polo, Diving, Skating, Basketball, etc.) have some kind of coach. An experienced and skilled 3rd party to help you analyze your game and improve it. And it's NEVER FREE!

Call the people who pay for this fanboys if you want, but I guarantee they will benefit from it way more than just playing online and watching videos.

@235 Mike Ross is not good at Honda because he got good by himself. He's good at Honda because of how good he is at fighting games in general. Which he was taught. He's been competing for 10 years. He got better because of what others taught him, then he translated it to SF4.

Posted by Axefresh on August 6, 2010 at 7:13 p.m. #229

@238

He must have debts bigger than college loans if 10 years of competing in fighting games is translated to 50 dollars an hour.

The point is, there's no success story of a pro player who payed his way for his skill. He argues "just continue sucking", well you will probably will continue sucking with or without these lessons. You can't replicate skill by going out on a xbox live date with a popular street fighter player.

Posted by Axefresh on August 6, 2010 at 7:20 p.m. #230

"If any of you were the best at anything, you would not give out your secrets for free!! "

Oh yeah and like it's been said, Japan gives away secrets for free. Probably why they're the dominant Street Fighter nation despite all of their players only having it as a hobby versus USA players attempting a career out of it.

Posted by mcfizzle on August 6, 2010 at 7:23 p.m. #231

"You need to go to the training room and work on your combos and execution" - There I just saved some of you $40-$50. You're welcome.

Posted by Bookerjj on August 6, 2010 at 7:37 p.m. #232

@238 Axefresh

Why not, Thing is yall tend to think what whoever is paying for this lessons is not looking at videos, playing solid competition not going to tourneys, not doing such and such, Hell alot of people may goto local tournies, why cant they do all of what your saying, plus get lessons from these guys,

Not everyone lives in NorCal, SoCal or chinatown, and grouped with higher competition, America is not as small as Japan, where alot of people can be in one general area to learn from each other, Why do yall think its so bad?

You think that Pro Atheletes do not pay extra money for extra training in off season to get better, alot of them already have good work ethic to get them were they are, but still choose to pay for that little extra.

Can some just choose to get lesson to better themselves in Art or other activies, just to better themselves. If you looked at this topic and took Street fighter out of the equation and replace with lets say bowling or whatever is it really that much different

Posted by Quake2815 on August 6, 2010 at 7:44 p.m. #233

Better just to find competition and get better like they did.

Posted by tempesta1229 on August 6, 2010 at 8:07 p.m. #234

Still see a lot of ad hominem arguments on this subjects, people coming on here calling others losers for considering such a thing, despite the fact that they themselves are on a website arguing about it.

SFIV is entertainment. If people enjoy it and want to get better at it then it's no different from any other form of entertainment. You take lessons. That doesn't mean you don't also watch videos and read stuff, but obviously getting immediate and direct feedback is going to be the best way to learn. That's a fact.

Posted by Ryu_Apprentice on August 6, 2010 at 8:16 p.m. #235

If you want to be better in Street Fighter, its not by paying for online lessons.... its by the "Ryu" way

1: Train Hard (Practice Hard)
2: Meditate (Learn Your Matchups)
3: Fight stronger opponents (Play against better players)
4: Observe (watch those who use your main better than you)
5: Practice more

pay $50 and you will be suprised and dissappointed. but if daigo does such man he will be rich. (oh he speaks japanese only)

Posted by ThatJoshGuy on August 6, 2010 at 8:18 p.m. #236

MyJohnsonIsGodlike #217:

a fellow sf player, like everyone else here.
link to your vid?

Posted by snacpac25 on August 6, 2010 at 8:51 p.m. #237

I see no reason to throw away my money getting lessons from these guys. Even though they are high level players neither is so godlike that they never lose. It's a video game which consists of more than just pure skill you also need to be able to focus mentally under pressure and stay composed in a jam something these guys can;t teach you for 50$ an hour.

Posted by curtiscflush on August 6, 2010 at 9:11 p.m. #238

Wow! I don't know why, but I am surprised at how many people are hating on this. I would know nothing about SF if I hadn't had some people point me in the right direction. This type of info is actually quite valuable. You may not learn everything there is to know about this game by taking these guys up on one hour. No ones learns to play anything in a 1 hour lesson, you take more...you learn faster. I think these guys are quite smart and helpful for doing this.

Eric Clapton can't teach you to play in an hour. This isn't a lot of money at all. Private lessons for damn near anything cost $50 plus per hour. Usually a lot more!

Posted by BlankaBeast on August 6, 2010 at 9:17 p.m. #239

Good idea, I would do this if I were pro. Whynot, lots want to play them. I'm not saying I would pay, but if I was going to get serious I might.

Posted by Axefresh on August 6, 2010 at 9:42 p.m. #240

"Eric Clapton can't teach you to play in an hour. This isn't a lot of money at all. Private lessons for damn near anything cost $50 plus per hour. Usually a lot more!"

Justin Wong should just make it 100 dollars/hr.

Posted by YamchaBra on August 6, 2010 at 10:06 p.m. #241

$50 dollars per hour to be good at... a video game? I personally think it would be better if you just look at videos and tiers. Not that im against this, if i were a pro, i would want to make money out of something im really good at

Posted by Phynx on August 6, 2010 at 10:16 p.m. #242

Making the argument that guitar lessons cost that much isn't really the best comparison. Guitar is a skill that will last you a lifetime, this video game will be forgotten a couple years down the line.

Also, they have opposite effects in attracting the opposite sex.

Posted by BlankaBeast on August 6, 2010 at 10:24 p.m. #243

I like marn, he isnt a tier ho. He mixes it up, smart marn.

Posted by BlankaBeast on August 6, 2010 at 10:26 p.m. #244

and as far as WHO u get lessons from, they are all better than you so you will learn the most from who is the best teacher, skill is moot.

Posted by Bookerjj on August 6, 2010 at 10:29 p.m. #245

@Phynx
"Guitar is a skill that will last you a lifetime, this video game will be forgotten a couple years down the line."

At least you are stating where you value more Guitar, Because their are alot of people that will say playing Guitar is a wastes of time and try a learn a another skill of the sort.
But if playing the guitar is a skill that will last them a life time, fine, But if someone wants learn SF fine, who are we to judge.
We are debating a subject about video games on a video game forum. People on the outside looking in at us think we are losers, would you care how they think of you discussing this topic, i would hope not.

Posted by Amar on August 6, 2010 at 11:07 p.m. #246

I would maybe consider paying 15$ for 2 hours of being taught how to BEAT Rufus by Justin, E. Honda by Mike, Balrog by Gootecks, Dudley, and C. Viper by Marn.
I would think that would make a lot more sense. You can't really make someone good at the game no matter how much money is spent.
Given that each of these players main characters have been beaten, we know that they know the character's weak points.

Personally, I've always seemed to be free to good Vipers and bad Blankas and so-so Chuns no matter what character it is I'm using.

I think that would be a lot more feasible and basic; Though i would recommend such a thing in person.

Posted by Phynx on August 7, 2010 at midnight #247

@Bookerjj

Ok, how about this.

Guitar is a marketable skill that thousands of people profit from, while only only a select few profit from playing street fighter.

Posted by KineticPoet on August 7, 2010 at 12:30 a.m. #248

If I paid Kobe Bryant, could he teach me how to shoot a clutch three pointer with only 2 seconds left on the clock? Nope. End of discussion.

Posted by NobleEskimo on August 7, 2010 at 12:43 a.m. #249

I like the idea of paying $40 for a game, then $50 for the luxury of not having to go to Gamefaqs.com

Posted by CharlieKun on August 7, 2010 at 12:51 a.m. #250

this whole concept is definatly a step back as a comminity and i feel this is a calm before a possible storm. like its been mentioned, japan and certain other countries, share knowledge for free. ive noticed the fighting game community is bringing alot of negativity and controversy along with its increased popularity.

with that being said, no1 should hate on these guys because money talks and if you had the opportunity to do the same and make that kind of money, many people would be doing this.

Posted by Keepingitclassy on August 7, 2010 at 1:17 a.m. #251

This is absolutely ridiculous. 40$ per HOUR. Son Do you know what games I could by for 50$ and how many hours of gameplay they're worth/ This has got to be a scam l:I

Posted by Shredelicious on August 7, 2010 at 2:55 a.m. #252

@258 You're right, Kobe could not teach you how to shoot a clutch 3 pointer with 2 seconds left. But he could give the tools to do that yourself. It doesn't matter how good you are anything, 2nd party feedback is the quickest and easiest way to get better.

I'll say this again to everyone who says that "everything these guys know is already out there"

If they don't know anything that isn't already on the web, why are they consistently the most dominant players in the country?? They must know some things that are not available to everybody.

Also, Japan has a great SF community, so does California. Maybe it's because Japan is slightly smaller that that 1 state in our entire country. California is tight and Japan is tight because they are so close knit. The rest of country could use the help.

Posted by Shep131 on August 7, 2010 at 4:29 a.m. #253

it's like paying to call a sexline, ur either sad enuff to do it or ya go for the free option :)

Posted by I_want_your_sister on August 7, 2010 at 5:14 a.m. #254

A lot of moms are gonna hear "mommy please can I borrow your credit card" hahaha. This is bogus I'm not doing this and you shouldn't too, well if your desperate then go right ahead.

Posted by mcfizzle on August 7, 2010 at 6:58 a.m. #255

well judging from the responses there's enough of a market for it.

Posted by JoseRufus on August 7, 2010 at 9 a.m. #256

THESE GUYS(EXCLUDING MIKE ROSS) CANT MAKE IT TO TOP EIGHT IN EVO TO GET MONEY SO THEY DO THIS SH1T

ILL RATHER GO TO JAPAN AND PLAY WITH THE JAPANESE PLAYER AND GET SOME TIPS

THIS WHY AMERICA WILL NEVER BE BETTER THAN JAPAN

Posted by mr_e on August 7, 2010 at 9:02 a.m. #257

Cross Counter is a good idea. this...well...im not so sure. i respect their game in SF but they are charging a little too much. $25 an hour is much more reasonable imo. this might help some people...not me though. i got a good friend & we play SSF4 online with like-minded players (who are now friends btw). he's a great player. he gives me tips on how to improve on my dhalsim & guile. im gettin the hang of it & eventualy i'll be confident in my skills with both thanks to his advice. also, thanks to him, i've discovered im decent with akuma (which is a direct contrast to my play style with guile, dhalsim & gouken). we're good friends. he's the best part...i met him on this site for free. he gives tips & advice for free. thats someone helpin someone else. i can understand the need to get better, but like i said the price is a little too steep. maybe if they lowered the price &/or give a free 1st lesson, people will jump at the chance. their intentions may seem noble, but their motivation is questionable to say..

Posted by mr_e on August 7, 2010 at 9:14 a.m. #258

(page 2) the least. now its all right to disagree about something...but resorting to name calling just makes you seem childish. we can agree or disagree in a civilized matter. to the pro players; i suggest you lower the price of the service you all are offering. as you noticed, not many people are too pleased by it. hopefully ross & tecks will go back to do Cross Counter soon. to all tecks haters...if i bet any money it'll be goontecks that'll slap the hate off yo face. simple. like i said b4 i got a good friend who's givin me great advice on my game for free cuz he's a good friend. so i wont be signing up for this. just lower the price & you'll see more positive responses. to all the haterz...oh nvm y'all aint gonna change so i wont say anythin bout yo hatin ways.

Posted by mr_e on August 7, 2010 at 9:22 a.m. #259

(last comment) as stated by many others, there's pleanty of free info on the web. also friends help out other friends. i'll say it once again...lower the price of admission or y'all are not gonna see a lot of people lining up. dueces

Posted by KineticPoet on August 7, 2010 at 12:07 p.m. #260

@Shredelicious

You missed the analogy and the point entirely. You don't need someone like Kobe Bryant to teach you the tools, the tools are basic and can be learned all on your own. If you're that much ASS then maybe you should just quit all together.

Next.

Posted by xxxplizit on August 7, 2010 at 12:35 p.m. #261

The service itself depends on both the top players teaching the customer how to play characters and other people at the highest levels AND the customer who is trying to get better. It's like a lesson or a class; it's an investment that depends on how much they are getting out of it and how well-prepared the customer is.

If people don't like the service, then don't pay. If players feel better with what they have and the resources they can obtain at a better price or free, then they don't have to pay for the service. If players want to experience a different direction of growth that what they have isn't working, then they can pay the service and hopefully get a lot better without losing a lot of $$$ on tournaments or money matches losing consistently.

Posted by solamon77 on August 7, 2010 at 12:47 p.m. #262

@262
Exactly. Listening to everybody whine on here about how this is just ridiculous is driving me crazy. They don't even know what they are talking about. The fact is, a lot of us practice an awful lot at this game and are no closer to being even a local tournament winner, let alone an international one, than when we started. These guys have an understanding of the game that others don't. If you want to know what they know, what it is that makes them great players, then pay their small fee and take their lessons.

To everybody who says that all the knowledge is already out there: IT'S NOT. Besides, this game is more than just knowledge, it's understanding and intuition. These things can be learned on your own, but the process is expedited by a coach. Why do you think professional sports have these integral people instead of just telling the players to go on the web and then train? And don't kid yourself into thinking that Street Fighter is somehow different than professional sports, because it isn't.

People take this just as seriously, and train just as long building up the right muscle memory and intuition as in baseball. You know what is different, with Street Fighter, you don't have to be born a freak of nature or be a 'roid head to participate. It's open to all. And yet the same people keep making it to the top of the charts over and over. Surely they must know something the rest of us don't. Let's explore that.

Let's just say that the knowledge is all out there already, here's the problem with that assumption. The info found on the web is mixed with a bunch of dubious advice, biases, and flat out ignorance. What these guys are offering is the knowledge a lot of us are looking for in pure, undiluted-by-the-masses form. I spend all day sometimes researching info to improve my game, but for some reason I struggle to elevate myself above 2800pp and I just can't figure out what I'm missing or not understanding. It's really hard to troubleshoot your own problems, these guys are offering that service for a nominal fee.

Besides, this isn't really for the everyday player. This is for the low-level tournament player who is looking to up his game. This is for the guy who spent $500 on plane fair and hotels just to compete at EVO, knowing that he wasn't going to win, but just wanted to play his best. And to those people, this is a great idea and a great opportunity. Heck, I've always wanted to be a tournament level player myself, if I had the extra money, I think I might even be interested in hearing what these guys have to say.

Posted by YourEveryDayJackAss on August 7, 2010 at 12:52 p.m. #263

How did these pros become "pros"? Because they learned on their OWN. That's why if you're really serious, it's just gonna be you and the controller in your hand.

Posted by Prod on August 7, 2010 at 2:01 p.m. #264

Haha
if these guys work like 8 hours per day and 6 times a week
they would earn U$9600 in a month!!

just to teach ppl how to play video games...
Hell yeah man, i'm a graduated engineer and my salary is not even close to that -_-"

Posted by KineticPoet on August 7, 2010 at 3:04 p.m. #265

@273

You have no clue as to what you're talking about therefore you'll never be a top player, trust me.

By your logic using sports as an example, everyone who is born black, 6'8" - could play just as good as Kobe. You're wrong. Your logic is way off. SF is open to everyone but that doesn't mean everyone has a chance at being a top player.

Being a top player cannot be taught. Japanese players play with Daigo all the time... ALL THE TIME... got it? Did any of them win Evo this year? Nope. Only Daigo has been consistent.

So please, shut up sit down and quit acting like you know anything about pro sports or gaming or the talent/skills it takes to be a top player.

Posted by Amnesiac on August 7, 2010 at 3:45 p.m. #266

You can't teach someone to be good at Street Fighter, you can only learn to be good at Street Fighter.

Posted by Cauptain on August 7, 2010 at 4:36 p.m. #267

Daigo "God" Umehara lesson hour: 1.000,00 US.

If you do not know how to play SSFIV, GOD UMEHARA teaches you.

Posted by Shredelicious on August 7, 2010 at 5:36 p.m. #268

@276

Daigo just lost pretty bad in a first to 10 against YHCMochi who then lost to Sakonoko. I think by that measure, there are at least 2 people who could beat Daigo. He has admitted he isn't the best. And don't assume that all the good players out there even attend Evo.

It's clear how long you have been involved in the gaming and you should not be passing judgment.

Posted by Shredelicious on August 7, 2010 at 5:53 p.m. #269

man, every time I come to this board I get pissed that these kids are what the gaming community is turning into.

The tragedy is not consistently high placing gamers selling private lessons on high level play..... it's the punks who think that you can learn something to the extent and level that these guys have mastered it just by reading game guides and watching Youtube videos. Why aren't all of you taking home thousands of dollars a month by winning tournaments??

Obviously, if the knowledge was out there then all of you would be placing top 32 at Evo.

@274 Every one of these guys got lessons at the arcades from fellow and better gamers before SF4 even came out. The skills they were taught then have been translated to today's games which is why they are the best. Even Daigo was pushed by guys like Valle and Choi back in the days of Hyper Fighting. He could barely keep up with them in the beginning. To think that anyone became great without motivation and coaching is so pretentious, it's disgusting.

I dread the day you guys start filling up tourney brackets with your rudimentary sh*t. The excuses, the claims of "tier whoring" or "spamming"... you are all the same ...

... these things are the degradation of the community and I fear the future.

Posted by D3LI on August 7, 2010 at 7:24 p.m. #270

If anyone wants lessons for free with Rose i'll be happy to help out the community, I play with some top players a decent amount in my free time and I rarely run into any good rose players, so I'll be happy to teach anyone who wants to learn

Xboxlive: D3finestatutory

Posted by KineticPoet on August 7, 2010 at 7:44 p.m. #271

@280

"Why aren't all of you taking home thousands of dollars a month by winning tournaments??"

No one is taking home that monthly. Right there shows your ignorance. Please quit embarrassing yourself any further.

Next!

Posted by curtiscflush on August 7, 2010 at 8:25 p.m. #272

The problem with lowering your price is that you end up aiming at the bottom of the barrel.
I wouldn't want to teach a bunch of kids who are constantly negative and whine their days away.
by charging $50/hr you eliminate 2 people who are only willing to pay $25. Thus increasing the quality of the client. It is for people who are serious about their game.
I can't imagine teaching half the posters in here for less than $100/hr. Too much whining and not enough focus on improvement. There wouldn't be coaches in any genre if it didn't help.

Posted by ThatJoshGuy on August 7, 2010 at 9:14 p.m. #273

copy pasta

Hey RyanG, (gootecks@gootecks.com)
I heard you had previously asked for community to hook you up with a charity xbox/ps3 so you can play sf4, is that accurate?
If so, then it seems disingenuous to now charge for lessons, shouldn't you just give back to the community to strengthen it?
Regardless, it reminds me of a developer deciding to split its fps community by demanding a price for additional content, like modern warfare 2, which was very successful, yet overall Team Fortress is a vastly better game and has more staying power, due to its 119+ free updates and non-fragmented community.
I guess it all comes down to the bike money being more important than the community.

Thanks for your time.

ThatJoshGuy

lets see what happens. ill post his response if there is one.

Posted by Shredelicious on August 7, 2010 at 11:50 p.m. #274

@282

Yes, Wong, Marn, and Ross have taken home well over $1000 in any given tournament. I didn't mean for it to sound like an income month by month. But they have all won many sizable tournaments and taken thousands home in prize money.

You understand my point, and it's valid. If that was the only bullet point you took away from my post then I'm clearly not ignorant one.

Keep trying to argue the straw man. See where that gets you kid.

Posted by Shredelicious on August 7, 2010 at 11:53 p.m. #275

@ 283

I'm glad you get it. Hopefully the close minded move on.

Posted by Bookerjj on August 8, 2010 at 12:26 a.m. #276

@ 282 KineticPoet

Look, that this topic, and replace Street Fighter with "fill in the blank."

This discussion is very similar when poker was just taking off when Phil Hellmuth and other poker "stars" start offering paid lessons. People thought the idea was stupid why pay for service when you just need practice and keep playing, but the people who got these lessons loved it.

You're right these people just need keep playing on their own, look online for free advice, keep practicing....But wait how do you know that are not doing that. They can be doing all of what your saying and still get added lessons what so wrong with that.
Its not like everyone that get lessons to learn the guitar or bowling or etc. want to be a pro at it, but just want to get better, its a hobby that they enjoy and they pay for extra lessons just to get better because they like to.

Seems you have a problem just because its street fighter, who we to judge what they want to get better at if this helps.

Because by your logic, it doesn't makes sense to pay for lessons for any 'fill in the blank,' because you can just practice on your own and learn on your own. Sorry dude not everyone can do that for 'fill in the blank.'

Now that these guys is just offering a service, which i think its a cool idea. Since you have a problem with type of service next time you see someone that does 'fill in the blank' tell them they should be take time out their lives to do lessons for free, since they can get all the knowledge of 'fill in the blank' free elsewhere.

next.

Posted by and3 on August 8, 2010 at 1 a.m. #277

Hey the first pro's became pro's by playing amongst themself when they werent at pro lvls yet. Just go online and find someone who's around your lvl like I did. In vanilla sf4 found this very good chun online and he was impressed by my Viper play 2 and so we decided 2 play 4 a few hours. After those hours of training Chun's tricks and moves were so familiar 2 my that I rarely lose a chun match even now, cuz i know excactly what and what will work on chuns.
The same happenend against a rose player. I noticed that she loved 2 slide under viper burning kicks so i stopped using them and found out that vipers overhead beats slide and soul spark and thrust, making the match-up a lot easier 4 me. And all of that without the help of a pro. Wow im really fantastic arent I? :P

Posted by Bookerjj on August 8, 2010 at 1:21 a.m. #278

@and3 288

So why cant someone do what you did AND also get advice from a pro.

Posted by Bookerjj on August 8, 2010 at 1:39 a.m. #279

Hell, if Allen Iverson offered basketball lesson's and i had the money to do it, i'd take those lesson's. I know i can go play pickup games and practice on my own, i can, not like going to stop playing pickup games and keep practicing. Not like trying to go pro in basketball, im just playing for fun, but want to get my game better, and if I do A.I's lesson, plus the hard work i was already doing just to better my self in a game i like to play for fun, why not. Even though A.I. went the training with the help of others going up to learn basketball on his own, you think he wouldn't be happy get lesson from Michael Jordan if he had the chance.

Now, if i replace AI with Jwong, and basketball with Street fighter, not that much of a difference.
Yall just can't get over that its street fighter, pretty judgmental if u ask me.

Posted by OomackattackoO on August 8, 2010 at 12:09 p.m. #280

ILL ONLY DO IT IF THEY CHARGE TRIPLE.

Posted by Axefresh on August 8, 2010 at 12:35 p.m. #281

lol, one of my friends is considering lessons from jwong.

though he was depressed for a week and went on emo rants after jwong lost to gamerbee. he also doesnt really know any fundamentals and is too lazy to look them up.

figures. it really is only for nuthuggers

Posted by logic_boi on August 8, 2010 at 2:32 p.m. #282

@ 273

Hit the nail on the head.

What these guys are offering is advice that is tried and true, as opposed to the "free" internet info out there which is mixed at best. Sure some of same info is out there, but what you're paying for here is 1)something tailored to you and your game via real-time, live feedback 2)filtered info on what works and what doesn't, saving you time(and time is money) from finding the info yourself and 3)the trust this info is legit. Like any coaching or consultant service, part of the payment is paying for the credentials. These are experts who have consistently done well in real tournaments as opposed to internet theory fighters.

As far as the pricing, let the market decide. They're the ones offering their services, let them decide how much they think their time's worth. Now if nobody bites, who knows maybe the fee will drop. I for one will never pay for it, but that shouldn't bar them from charging for it.

Posted by RandomJohn on August 9, 2010 at 12:20 p.m. #283

@#275:

Hey man I know what you mean haha. Darn pro gamers making more than an engineering graduate working as an engineer? That better not happen in my life time or I'll hang my myself haha.

On another note, I want to add the fact the economy is in the hole right now. Let say these sessions are worth it and will change your game dramatically, don't you think charging people $40-50 per hour is excessive at this time and age?!? Someone stated it depends on the market and they are free to charge whatever they feel like is worth their time. Well apparently these pro gamers do not know anything about the market right now. Not a lot of people can burn $40-50 per hour video games. And let me say, again, that video gaming is a hobby to most people. Investing $40-50 per hour on a hobby when you're struggling to meet ends meet or to save up is just another way to dig yourself into a bigger hole. Yea I know. People are not forced to buy these services and if they dig deeper in their own hole, it's their fault, not the these pros. However I think these pros are stupid to think they're going to get any business from the SF community with these prices. That's all. It's like a kid charging $2 for glass of lemonade instead of the typical 25 cents. People will not buy! In another words, think about suppply and demand jwong, Mike Ross, etc, assuming you guys know what "supply and demand" means.

Posted by KineticPoet on August 9, 2010 at 12:31 p.m. #284

@Bookerjj

Stfu kiddy. Keep sucking that pro gamer cock.

Posted by Shredelicious on August 9, 2010 at 1:21 p.m. #285

@ 294

You talk about markets but you are grouping everyone together in the same market. I'm a business major and one of the first you learn is the difference between markets based on price and quality.

"Why would you buy a Jaguar for $110,000 when you could just get a Kia for $18,000?" The difference is in the quality. You said it yourself, gaming is just a hobby for most people. Well those that don't fit that description are more than likely the market for these guys. They want customers that understand how valuable these lessons are. They won't get a lot of customers, but Jaguar does very well for themselves even though there aren't 5 million of them on the road. They are aiming at higher end buyers. Smaller market and smaller demand, but a much higher quality supply. Your lemonade analogy is suggesting that a kid is charging $2 for a glass of lemonade that is worth $.25. If the lemonade was made with rare Meyer lemons and the perfect ratio of lemon to sugar, it would be worth that $2. Again, not as many people would buy but that's ok because the quality and price will make up for the lack of customers.

I think before you begin a pretentious rant about supply and demand, you yourself should learn a little bit about it. You have only succeeded in making yourself look foolish.

Posted by KineticPoet on August 9, 2010 at 2:19 p.m. #286

@Shredelicious

Let me know how those paid lessons work out for you kiddy. And if you don't plan to pay then stfu.

NEXT!

Posted by Shredelicious on August 9, 2010 at 2:40 p.m. #287

@ KineticPoet

I'm not going to pay for these lessons but that doesn't mean I can't call out close minded, pretentious, morons commenting on things they don't understand.

speaking of pretentious morons, quit saying "next".

lol, sweet comeback btw. I call you kiddie and you call me "kiddy". Again, keep trying to argue the straw man, see how far it gets you.

Posted by Bookerjj on August 9, 2010 at 2:54 p.m. #288

@KineticPoet

Instead of coming back with an intelligent response you tell another man to suck someone cock. I hope you are a kid, cause if your a grown man talking like that you have some serious issues. When you get older you will understand, maybe....

Posted by KineticPoet on August 9, 2010 at 2:54 p.m. #289

@Shredelicious

You're a kiddy because you act like one. You don't know dick about this game nor it's player base so please go crawl back to SMASH BROS or whatever hole you crawled out of.

You should pay for lessons, clearly you need them more than anyone else on here.

NEXT!!!!

Posted by KineticPoet on August 9, 2010 at 2:56 p.m. #290

@Bookerjj

Why would I waste any intelligence on someone like yourself? You're barely worth even taking the time to respond to. Have fun paying for lessons though. Kiddy.

NEXT!!!!

Posted by RandomJohn on August 9, 2010 at 4:20 p.m. #291

Maybe I should of added this to make my point. Market is not just about pricing in certain regions of the country / world. IT also depends how much money people has and are willing to spend. If people are afraid to spend, like most people are in our economy, demand will not be out there. Video gaming is not something they need to survive like food and water so most people (with logic and common sense) aren't going to force themselves to buy this service or product when they're already limited on what they can spend.
The lemonade thing is to point out little Susie down the road selling drinks for 5 cents will not be different than little Bobby selling drinks for 2 bucks. Quality will be the same. And please do not try to an smartass by saying Susie could be using different lemons and sugar than Bobby so quality is different. They're kids. They don't know any better. Watching and studying Japanese matches or tourney matches from anywhere, read up on forums, join live chat rooms for SF, play a little more on the weekends will improve your game for free comparing to $40-50 per hour with these pros. Just like any other hobbies, it takes more than one session to see the difference. Therefore more $40-50 / hr sessions in the long run. Going back to what I said about people's spending habits, they're less likely to do more sessions. If this 1on1 sessions become successful, grats to them. If it fails, then it's probably because of the reasons I stated above. I have my points and you have yours. I am done talking about this. Say all you want. Don't expect me to respond back because that's what I believe and no one can convince me otherwise.

Posted by Zeekin on August 9, 2010 at 5:39 p.m. #292

Ok, they didn't "pay money" to play daigo at the EVO weekend, they MONEY-MATCHED daigo. Sure it might seem like they're paying him since they all lost, but there's a fundamental difference, they sure as sh!t didnt do anything gay like pay for lessons, cant even compare the two, they're completely different.

FYI paying for lessons in a console game is straight up sad and retarded, same as lessons for guitar? give me a break

Posted by Shredelicious on August 9, 2010 at 5:52 p.m. #293

@ KineticPoet

I don't act like a kid dude. I have been playing and competing in fighting games since 2000. I know plenty about this game and others. I don't play Smash nor have I ever played it. If you would like to prove your point we can do a first to 10 to settle it. XBL: Shredelicious

Hit me up if you want to keep up this big man act. ;)

@ Random John

You don't have to respond but you can't honestly believe the only things in life are the things that we need to survive. You have hobbies, I have hobbies, everyone has something they enjoy spending money on in order to participate in it. People with common sense will set aside money in order to do the things they love as to avoid a stale lifestyle.

There is a very big difference between studying and practicing on your own and getting specific tips on your gameplay from some of the most experienced players in the country. Most of us already do study, and play extra, and read the forums daily but those things are not as streamlined and specific as private coaching. If the two techniques for improving were the same in effectiveness and quality then there would be way more people on the level of these guys.

Also, you took the lemonade thing a bit too far. I was explaining to you why your original analogy didn't apply, which I explained.

The point is, if studying videos, reading forums, and playing a little more is a $.25 glass of lemonade; then private, hands on, coaching from the top players in the country is a $2.00 glass of lemonade.

Posted by KineticPoet on August 9, 2010 at 6:25 p.m. #294

@Shredelicious

Sorry, I don't have a wiggerbox.

Got a friend's PS3 you could play on? Then again, depending on your location that could create a serious problem. Not to make excuses but the Japs couldn't code a decent online experience if their life depended on it aka another a-bomb was about to drop on their country.

Posted by Marn on August 9, 2010 at 7:07 p.m. #295

I like how you talk like you know everything. It totally makes sense.

Posted by KineticPoet on August 9, 2010 at 8:19 p.m. #296

@Marn

They don't pay me $57.25 an hour to know nothing. Nice try though.

Posted by Bookerjj on August 9, 2010 at 8:39 p.m. #297

@ Randomjohn #302
"Watching and studying Japanese matches or tourney matches from anywhere, read up on forums, join live chat rooms for SF, play a little more on the weekends will improve your game for free"

See the thing is why you assuming that people can't do what you just mentioned AND get these added lesson's. I mean when you get lessons in anything do u not study or train outside of your class or whatever you do. I honestly do not know anyone in any activity that just do whatever they are learning and not practice or study afterwords.

Stop assuming this is a shortcut, cause i have friends that take bowling lessons, for our league we have at work, but its like they still don't train and practice outside of their lesson's, its just something extra that can help them in our league.

Posted by Marn on August 10, 2010 at 12:33 a.m. #298

I'm pretty sure you make $57.25 trolling eventhubs.com.

Posted by Shredelicious on August 10, 2010 at 1:46 a.m. #299

@ Marn

Lawl. its so true.

Posted by KineticPoet on August 10, 2010 at 11:44 a.m. #300

Yeah Marn, it's so true. Let me know how many people actually pay you for lessons.

@ Shredelicious

Lawl? Really. Good luck with your SF career though. Scrub.

Posted by joskun on August 10, 2010 at 12:30 p.m. #301

Honestly there are lots of guides out there and the game is online so by playing different people you get better much faster.
I'd personally invest that money in learning mix matial arts or something useful.

Posted by Shredelicious on August 10, 2010 at 12:30 p.m. #302

@ KineticPoet

Dude, you'll never believe it because of your unfortunate disposition, but you are the literal definition of scrub. Everything you've said on this board has so clearly exemplified your knowledge skill, or rather the lack thereof. I see it, Marn sees it, and I'm sure all of the better players on this board can see it. You're ignorant and close minded but you think you're awesome. You have to tell people how much money you make because of how insecure you get when people call you out. I offer a first to 10 and you immediately start talking about location and lag and poor net code.

My SF career will be just fine. I play in local tournaments regularly and I play at my local arcade weekly and I hover around 3800 PP online. I'm well above average and I'm no scrub.

My offer still stands. first to 10. hit me up.

Posted by KineticPoet on August 10, 2010 at 2:59 p.m. #303

@Shredelicious

I said I don't have an Xbox. I'm not dodging you. Online is trash, everyone that is anyone knows this to be true. Are you honestly going to sit there and say that the net code is perfect and there's no such thing as lag? Really, come on.

Posted by Shredelicious on August 10, 2010 at 4:21 p.m. #304

No, lag exists, thats why I make it a point to play locally as often as possible... however, online is still a solid platform to play. Daigo himself (GameInn) said in his introduction to the last Gods Garden online tournament, that online play was totally viable.

So "everyone who is anyone" is not totally correct. Daigo has logged enough online and arcade hours to be an authority on the matter and I think he's right. As long as there are green bars online play is just fine.

BTW, PSN online is worse because it's free.

Posted by KineticPoet on August 10, 2010 at 4:30 p.m. #305

@Shredelicious

Daigo was referring to Japan. Not the rest of the world. If I try to play someone in Japan we will have a horrible connection.

He has no authority considering it's common sense/knowledge. Online play in Super is not solid by any means. Especially if you try to play someone across the US. Hell, I've even had lag when playing someone down the street - what does that tell you? (And I'm running on a fibre optic connection)

Please stop being ignorant. It's not helping your argument at all.

Btw, I'm done reading this trash topic, so don't bother responding. I'll look forward to seeing your name in top 8 next year at evo after all those PRO lessons you paid for.

NEXT!

Posted by Shredelicious on August 10, 2010 at 6:26 p.m. #306

I'm sure you'll see this. Someone so pretentious and into himself wouldn't let this go. lol

I don't plan on paying for these lessons. I don't think I need them right now. Maybe sometime down the road. We both know I'm not the ignorant one. I'm actually arguing for the open minded side of this topic. I can't imagine you even remember the bullet points of my argument before you digressed into the trivial sh*t.

Anyway, think what you want. Go mash uppercut for points like the rest of the punks out there.

"Next!" (look, I can be a douche too)

Posted by Marn on August 10, 2010 at 7:01 p.m. #307

So if online really is trash. Where are you in tournament results? Are you going to be at top 8 at EVO? Why are you claiming to be good if you're not going to be playing anywhere? Why are you even in this if you don't really play since online is trash. Where DO you play? I wanna know.

Posted by Travenport on August 13, 2010 at 11:46 a.m. #308

I really dont see the difference between this and hiring a personal trainer.

Posted by Shep131 on August 14, 2010 at 4:15 p.m. #309

@ 279

ur right, i think most people here just don't like the idea of spending money tbh lol. i won't be taking lessons but then again i won't be entering any tourney's either :)

Posted by Ryukenden on September 18, 2010 at 10:18 p.m. #310

If you are good at something never do it for free.

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