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SSFIV devs discuss original Street Fighter 2 & Alpha characters

Catalyst
Posted by Catalyst
April 20, 2010 at 1:41 a.m. PDT
SSFIV devs discuss original Street Fighter 2 & Alpha characters Azrael has provided yet another translation of the Japanese Super Street Fighter 4 blog. This week's entry breaks down the last characters, Cammy, Fei Long, Sakura, Rose, Gen and Dan.

Hello everyone! This is Tsukamoto.

I got to go with producer Ono to an event in Hawaii! Sorry I got to kick back in a nice warn country. Even though the nice wide beach was right before me, with the pre-sale presentation overseas I didn't get to go... No, the most important thing is that everyone knows more about Super Street Fighter IV, so forget the beach, we gave it out all for SSFIV promos!

This week, together with the battle planner we'll be talking about the adjustments to Cammy, Fei Long, Sakura, Rose, Gen, and Dan!

Well then, first off tell us about the adjustments to Cammy.

Okada:
One of the first adjustments we made was to some of her moves that were just simply strong. Like the Cannon Spike, which had too much offensive power. But we have shortened the start-up for some of her moves that were a bit difficult to use, especially her Spin Knuckle, which should be much easier to use now.

Tamamura:
For her normals, we've given her a bit more priority on her normals. For example, her Far Standing Hard Kick now has anti-air properties, and has a bit more range than in Street Fighter 4, so now its good for controlling space. Also, her Crouching Hard Kick - in IV, sometimes it would look like it should hit but it didn't, so in this game it should be a bit easier to hit now. We've also improved the cross-up properties on her Jumping Light Kick, which should improve her aerial offense.

If we look at the total package, then Cammy has gotten more improvements than nerfs?

Okada:
Yes. While she has gotten a lot of improvements, to balance the game out in general damage on the whole is down, so I don't think players will feel that she is too strong. Now, she can better vary her attacks, so now players can enjoy different playstyles with her.

What type of move is her new ultra, the CQC (Cammy Quick Combination)?

Okada:
Her ultra in Street Fighter 4, the Spiral Drive Smasher was really good for rushing down, and could be used in combos. So we wanted to do something different for her for the new ultra, which is how CQC came about. CQC is a counter ultra, so if you don't successfully read your opponent's movements nothing is going to happen. Compared to the other characters though, it does a lot of damage, so it has great comeback potential. So it'll be difficult to hit, but if you do you get a great reward in damage dealt.

So this is a move that's best suited against attacking characters?

Sano:
If the player is really good at reading their opponent, then CQC can be used against any character. But if you use CQC against a grappler, it might lead to trouble. In an instant you can find yourself eating a Spinning Pile Driver (laughs).

Next, tell us about the adjustments for Fei Long

Okada:
The image of Fei Long is one of a character who bulldozes his way forward, especially using his Rekka Ken's. That much hasn't changed. But we have strengthened his straight-forward moves. For example, we have changed the timing of the attacks for his Standing Hard Kick. In Street Fighter 4, an opponent could do a Focus Attack in between the two hits, but now the two hits are consecutive, so its a move that will beat out the opponent's Focus Attack. You can also use it as just a quick combo. We've also adjusted the inputs for his Flying Kick (Chicken Wing), so now it is easier to pull off.

Tell us about his new ultra, Gekirin Ken.

Okada:
This is also a counter ultra, the same as Cammy's CQC. A counter ultra might be more suited to Fei Long than Cammy - the main force of Fei's offense is his Rekka Ken's, and opponents will usually want to get an attack in to break it up. If Fei players can use the counter ultra well, then this will be a great asset to them.

Well then, tell us about the adjustments for Sakura.

Okada:
In Street Fighter 4, the startup on her Fireball was kind of slow, and what would happen is that opponents could jump in on her easily. So in SSFIV, we've reduced some of the startup to make the move a bit easier to use. We've also improved her cross-up abilities. In the past, Sakura could jump in and then link together moves and this was her primary means of offense. But in IV, Sakura didn't have a lot of cross-up ability, so fighting like this was a bit difficult. So we've changed her Jumping Medium Kick to have a bigger cross-up range, which should allow her to jump in and confuse her opponent's guard better. So she should have an easier time jumping in than in Street Fighter 4.

What type of move is her new ultra, Shinkuu Hadouken?

Okada:
While Haru Ranman was a hit-type ultra that could be used in combos, Shinkuu Hadouken is a projectile type. Shinkuu Hadouken doesn't do as much damage, but I feel that its easier to use, such as in situations of controlling space. Also, depending on the button you use to activate it, it can become the anti-air Shinkuu Tengyo Hadouken, or the ground-based Shinkuu Hadouken.

Sano:
Shinkuu Hadouken is a good move to have when she has her opponent in the corner. If you use the anti-air Tengyo Hadouken, with its upwards angle she can catch people who are trying to jump out. She can also hit people with it who are still on the ground. When she has ultra, and the opponent is closer to the corner, she can use it to scare her opponents out of jumping or using air-based attacks. So this ultra will change the way people fight against Sakura.

Tell us about Rose's adjustments.

Okada:
For Rose, we have shortened the recovery on her Soul Spark and EX-Soul Spark, and make her Soul Reflect more comboable. We wrote about this on a previous blog, but now you can use Soul Throw off a juggle. So without changing the way she is played from IV, she has some new combos and more interesting things to explore. On the other hand, we've also adjusted the things that were a bit too strong. We've slightly nerfed her Soul Piede (Toward + Hard Kick).

What kind of move is her new ultra, Soul Satellite?

Okada:
Rose up until now has been able to divide herself, absorb projectiles, etc - so compared to other characters she's a bit quirky. So keeping with that idea, we came up with the Soul Satellite ultra. Simply put, her soul orbs just revolve around her, but its a pesky little ultra that can be used for both offense and defense. There are various combinations it can be used in.

Tsukamoto:
The orbs continually revolve around her, so it will be difficult for her opponent to find the right timing to attack.

Okada:
Yes, but for opponents who just block all day, it's going to be hard for Rose to deal out large amounts of damage, so figuring out timing is going to be important I think.

Tamamura:
The Soul Satellites themselves don't do much damage, but if you combine them with other moves then you can get some nice things happening.

Tell us about the adjustments for Gen.

Tsukamoto:
In America, many people are saying that Gen has gotten weaker, and those rumors have infiltrated Japan as well. So I imagine there are many people who want to hear about this.

Okada:
Yes. Word on the street is that Gen has gotten weaker, but I think that rather than saying he's weaker, our adjustments to him have been to make him more like Gen. The most important point was to give him more variation between his Crane and Mantis styles. Being able to effectively use his Crane and Mantis styles is what will bring Gen to life.

Sano:
First, we've changed the jump for both Crane and Mantis. In Mantis style his jump arc is a bit higher than in was in Street Fighter 4. Also, in IV, if he does a backdash and the invincibility runs out, he was considered to be in a grounded state, which meant that he could also eat a big combo as well. But for Super Street Fighter 4, he will be considered airborne, so all he will eat is the counter attack, so this is pretty good for Gen. Also, for Crane style, during a jump he will stay in the air a bit longer, so it will be easier to land jumping attacks. While there were many people who felt that the low jumps made attacking easier, in IV there were a lot of instances where Gen would hit the ground before he could get his attack out, so we made our adjustments with this in mind. We also sped up the startup on his Medium Punch and Medium Kick, that many people felt were slow and heavy. Now it should be much quicker to get out.

Okada:
For his specials, we've made his Oga wall dives faster, so it should be easier to hit opponents with. If we were to put this in numbers, in IV after clinging to the ceiling and then going for his attack, the attack came out on the 10th frame. In Super Street Fighter 4, now it comes out on the 3rd frame. So, its 7 frames faster.

Sano:
We've shortened the recovery on the Mantis Super to 4 frames after hit, and the startup on his Crane Super has been shortened by/to 10 frames, making it easier to hit with. Also, for his Crouch Hard Punch, which is pretty important for him, we've increased the hit range of it, and on counter hit Gen will take airborne damage. In the Alpha series, this was a move that if Gen landed would lead to big damage, but on counter hit Gen would take big damage, but this time around we've done things a little differently.

From what we've heard it sounds like Gen has gotten stronger - what do you think his rank in the tiers are now?

Sano:
Having moves that come out fast and with good priority don't always make for a strong character. Gen has always been about technique, and that hasn't changed. Now, I just feel that his ease of use has gotten fairly better.

What other areas have been adjusted?

Okada:
For Gen, basically there's nothing we haven't tweaked - we've adjusted more or less all of his moves. He has been strengthened to really bring out his technique. The adjustments we've made that are a bit off-course from that is that his Medium Kick, Cancel into Rapid Slap (Hyakurenkou) loop combo is a lot harder to do now. With this loop combo, even if the opponent blocked, Gen could bully them with this, and it was kind of one-sided for Gen. The flow is basically Medium Kick -> Hands -> Medium Kick -> Hands - maybe this is something that people can't ordinarily do, but with a rapid-fire pad then you can keep this up continuously. We had a lot of Gen players telling us "This isn't how Gen fights!" and as its not really Gen-like it was taken out.

Tell us about his new ultras.

Okada:
The Mantis ultra is based off his old "Shitenshuu" touch of death move, and the Crane Ultra is a powered-up version of his Oga wall dives. For the Mantis ultra, in the same way that you can combo his Crane Ultra I from the Waterfall Kick, Gen can combo the Mantis Ultra II from the Waterfall Kick as well. If you have confidence in your rushdown, Mantis Ultra II should be interesting. Crane Ultra II is a mid-air ultra, so if you match up with your opponent's movements there should be plenty of ways to hit it. It's especially good against opponents with projectiles. For example, it can be a good counter against Fireballs. So if your opponent is just randomly throwing Fireballs against you, Gen can use this ultra to really make him pay for it.

Tell us about the adjustments for Dan.

Okada:
Dan is one of our more interesting characters, so we wanted to strengthen him on that basis. We've made him a bit more fun to use, and adjusted some things that didn't work in IV. For example, when doing a chain cancel, his recovery time was kind of strange, so we fixed that to make things easier to link up. Also, we've slightly adjusted the start up frames on his weak Air Dan Kick so that it hits easier. He also gets a bit more priority, which makes his attacks a bit easier to hit now than before.

Tell us about his new ultra, the Haou Gadouken.

Okada:
Haou Gadouken is a projectile move. Although its best range is up close, if it hits the opponent it does nice chip damage, so its a nice move against other projectiles. Also, it has combo potential, and you can hit it off juggles.

With these adjustments, has Dan moved up in the tiers?

Okada:
Within the dev team, we feel that this is the Strongest Dan Ever, but his position won't change from SFIV! (laughs) That position is all his.

Do you have any closing thoughts for everyone who is looking forward to the game?

Okada:
On this blog, the characters we've talked about have all basically been improved, so it should be much easier to fight with them than before. Reading the comments, I can see that a lot of people are worried about Gen in particular. So if this blog could ease those concerns, I'd be really happy. When SFIV first came out, I felt that I wanted to bring back the Gen from previous titles, and with plenty of similar opinions after the game went to sale, the adjustments have been made to try and make Gen as close as possible to our imagination of him. I feel that Gen is closer to himself this time around, so if everyone could give him a try after the game goes on sale that'd be great.

Tsukamoto:
I hope you all enjoyed today's entry. This completes the adjustment notes for all the characters from SFIV! We were not able to include all the things that people who read this blog requested, so my apologies for that. Within development, we took in as many opinions as possible, adjusted carefully with balance in mind. Once you play the game you'll be able to see for yourself. So next week, get the game software and give it a spin!

As next week is the release date, that will have an effect on the power of this blog, as well as Ms. Shiozawa and Mr. Ayano's blog. Development staff will be dropping by for comments, but for the Dev Blog I think we'll keep the same format we've had up until now.

Also, there will be a new blog entry right before release date, in which we compile the various things producer Ono has said on overseas sites and what not. You may already know a lot of this, but there may be people who don't know, so this will be good for them!

Well then, see you next week!

Comments

Aquaman's avatar
Aquaman said on April 20, 2010 at 2:01 a.m.

Capcom really spent alot of time tweaking the game, one more week... can't wait.

#1
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MilnerWins said on April 20, 2010 at 2:04 a.m.

cammy: We've also improved the cross-up properties on her Jumping Light Kick

thank god

#2
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chickenwings said on April 20, 2010 at 2:06 a.m.

for a dmg thats supposed to be more offensive i cant see how turning down the dmg would help any. And then some of those dmg nerfs dont make no sense, ie cammy and bison.

#3
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jaysenedwinward said on April 20, 2010 at 2:09 a.m.

I like the Cammy changes. Been aching fr this for some time now. I DO NOT like the Cannon spike nerf but if Spinning Knuckle got decent invincibility and start up all is forgiven. I'll even buy you a pony.

#4
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Hudson said on April 20, 2010 at 2:09 a.m.

I glad to hear about Gen getting a frame speed buff.

#5
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js0ng said on April 20, 2010 at 2:17 a.m.

They though Cammy was too strong? WTF are they smoking?

#6
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HarkMammil said on April 20, 2010 at 2:27 a.m.

They didn't have to nerf Rose's standing forward kick. It's not like she does any serious damage anyway. No big deal though. Can't wait to play. Good job capcom.

#7
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6ixx said on April 20, 2010 at 2:29 a.m.

Can't wait until next week to test everything. It really pisses me off when people pirate the game before it's released. The dev's should be compensated for their work and I only hope pirated versions can't go online or receive any benefits that capcom intends to supply their supporters cause it's not right. I'm buying extra copies to show my support.
Great job on the entry guys

#8
Catalyst's avatar
Catalyst said on April 20, 2010 at 2:30 a.m.

@HarkMammil

Yeah, I saw the nerf to Rose's Toward + Hard Kick and was like...

In the match against Gief that's a very useful tool, pretty much against everyone else though it's not that great. Since it wasn't that great to begin with, Rose players aren't losing much.

The new Ultra, her extra combos and improved Soul Sparks should be huge, though.

#9
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CannonSpike_ said on April 20, 2010 at 2:44 a.m.

so they reduced damage across the board for almost all characters, makes sense that they would reduce Cammy's too.

But Cannon Spike to 100 for all versions? that's just ridiculous, none of the other SRK type moves got such a huge nerf, why cannon spike when cammy is already low tier? Doesn't make sense =/. Hope damage will be buffed up a bit in future balance changes.

Also, CQC very lackluster....dunno if its even possible to fix that though =/

#10
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CannonSpike_ said on April 20, 2010 at 2:46 a.m.

kinda seems to me like they just decided to just slightly change each character enough that they have some new options but the tiers will hardly shift (not counting insertion of all the new characters in the top tier) with the exception of a select few (vega and chun li come to mind).

#11
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DIERYU said on April 20, 2010 at 3:12 a.m.

@12 alright calm down sounds like your the one throwing your toys out of the pram! haha

cant wait to get my hands on the new improved cam but they didnt say anything bout the shortning of spiral arrow!

#12
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supershinbison said on April 20, 2010 at 3:12 a.m.

im pretty happy at the adjustments to all the characters thus far minus fei long. i believe he needed more but fei long always gets screwed so it didn't surprise me. just hope they will fix him via patch. i don't use him but he should be better cuz he's BRUCE LEE damnit!!!

#13
SaviorGabriel's avatar
SaviorGabriel said on April 20, 2010 at 3:15 a.m.

It's about damn time someone elaborated on Rose's adjustments! I feel like I'm the only person in all of creation who gives a crap about her!

Anyway, I'm glad to see her Soul Spark recovery has improved. She needs a better projectile game. I'm not so glad that her Soul Piede has been nerfed. I didn't think it needed nerfing to begin with, but oh well. Personally, I think they should've made it an overhead.

#14
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SHAHEENuk said on April 20, 2010 at 3:30 a.m.

Gen stuff sounds good.
lot of detail.

#15
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KenScrub said on April 20, 2010 at 3:48 a.m.

WTF!WTF IS THIS SHI|T Cammy didn't need any nerfs. F|UCK YOU FAGOT CAPCOM! Learn to balance shi|t. You nerf a character that doesn't need to be nerf. Then you buff fu|cking Fagat who is already TOP. Everyone must be retarted at Capcom to make such retarded choices. GG FAGS

#16
Tomiwa11's avatar
Tomiwa11 said on April 20, 2010 at 4 a.m.

im kinda happy they didnt buff sakura too much - theres sumthing satisfying about winning with her cos shes lower tier - and i think that will remain the same

#17
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mr_e said on April 20, 2010 at 4:02 a.m.

all in all good stuff. good work capcom. cant wait to play it. less than a week to go!!!

#18
Psycho's avatar
Psycho said on April 20, 2010 at 4:12 a.m.

For Gen, basically there's nothing we haven't tweaked - we've adjusted more or less all of his moves. He has been strengthened to really bring out his technique. The adjustments we've made that are a bit off-course from that is that his Medium Kick, Cancel into Rapid Slap (Hyakurenkou) loop combo is a lot harder to do now. With this loop combo, even if the opponent blocked, Gen could bully them with this, and it was kind of one-sided for Gen. The flow is basically Medium Kick -> Hands -> Medium Kick -> Hands - maybe this is something that people can't ordinarily do, but with a rapid-fire pad then you can keep this up continuously. We had a lot of Gen players telling us "This isn't how Gen fights!" and as its not really Gen-like it was taken out.

WHAT A JOKE!

#19
NobleEskimo's avatar
NobleEskimo said on April 20, 2010 at 4:15 a.m.

Very fitting to finish the blogs with Dan :-D I never thought he was TOO terrible, and with those buffs, he could potentially be a contender... but only if they didn't nerf his Fierce Dan Kick knockdown block strings.

#20
SteadiestShark's avatar
SteadiestShark said on April 20, 2010 at 4:38 a.m.

@ 10

Cammy's only low tier because hardly anyone uses her.

Look at the successful pros - they destroy with her!

I agree 100 damage isn't much at all - but it's still a damn good (and pretty safe) move that'll hit often...

Either way, I'm liking these changes - and they're right, all Gen boiled down to was MK xx hands > MK xx hands all day long.

Only two things that piss me off though:

1. There's no excuse why Fei's Ultra 1 didn't get altered so that you can combo into it.

2. There's no excuse why counter ultras can get beaten by prety much everything (they really shouldn't be in the game, they should have just been grapple moves!)

#21
Default avatar
griever2000 said on April 20, 2010 at 4:57 a.m.

wow Kenscrub...shut up it's as if you didn't read the article at all...she didn't got nerfed for god sake, she got balanced with ALL THE OTHER CHARACTERS...

As for MY Rose (not yours DiasFlac0g lol) her soul piede has got nerfed but I have heard that it has more juggle properties. Like if you hit the opponent is in the air and make them in juggle state with soul piede, she can use ultra 1 ? is that true ?

#22
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MIRACLEfool said on April 20, 2010 at 5:14 a.m.

Shoop. Proud for Dan.

#23
Rose's avatar
Rose said on April 20, 2010 at 5:45 a.m.

I am my own woman, thank you very much. :)

Yours (But Not Literally),
Rose

#24
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SaikyoRyu said on April 20, 2010 at 6:02 a.m.

Liking the changes to Dan, a move to go through fireballs (to help vs sagat) would be nice, but for now I'll still have the light dankukyaku.

#25
dommafia's avatar
dommafia said on April 20, 2010 at 6:06 a.m.

@28 u think so eh? wait till u see what Saqs has in store ;)

#26
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HypahVypah said on April 20, 2010 at 6:19 a.m.

Okada:
Yes. Word on the street is that Gen has gotten weaker, but I think that rather than saying he's weaker, our adjustments to him have been to make him more like Gen. The most important point was to give him more variation between his Crane and Mantis styles. Being able to effectively use his Crane and Mantis styles is what will bring Gen to life.

Cute, Okada, but nobody cares about being "more like Gen" or "bringing Gen to life" in a game where many of his matchups can take off half his lifebar in a flash. People just want him to not completely suck is all. :D

Also, easier Chicken Wing inputs ftw

#27
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capetusco said on April 20, 2010 at 6:21 a.m.

well... the day has come. I am fine with Cammy changes. Here we go, Killer Bee!

aaaaaaaaaaalso, easier Chicken wing inputs? lame. Scrubby Fei Longs are happy now. Real pros didnt needed that.

#28
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n00b_saib0t said on April 20, 2010 at 6:26 a.m.

hopefully the translation is good, because according to this log s.mk->hands is still in for gen, the loop is just harder. i dont use him, but gen players seem to like it as their b&b.

#29
zUkUu's avatar
zUkUu said on April 20, 2010 at 6:54 a.m.

What? MK => Hands didnt felt like Gen? What the... ITS GEN TRADEMARK NUMBER #1 Oo

also hes the worst new ultra of the entire cast. uncomboable, not rly much damage and only scratch damamge :X

#30
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PhinnyCupcakes said on April 20, 2010 at 7:01 a.m.

I actually tend to agree with @18. Capcom just doesn't really seem to understand...

..No further questions, your honor.

#31
caruga's avatar
caruga said on April 20, 2010 at 7:04 a.m.

I read that Cammy's cannon-spike damage against air-born characters is the same as before. Still, FADC juggling seems useless now, a simple combo would do more damage. They should have given this consideration. I don't like redundancy!

Wonder if they fixed Fei Long's first ultra.

#32
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Raius1 said on April 20, 2010 at 7:06 a.m.

@ #10
Sagat's uppercuts also all went down to 100 dmg, sans angry scar. So Cammy has an uppercut like his, but probably with better priority and startup.

#33
FLOwDOG's avatar
FLOwDOG said on April 20, 2010 at 7:18 a.m.

@18

I don't agree with nerfing cammy's damage but I do think she needed a slight nerf. She had too many easy links and easy combos, but that's just my opinion. Plus they did nerf Sagat despite what everyone thinks lol. His damage got scaled down, WAY DOWN. Just cause angry scar is comboable doesnt mean he's still super op.

#34
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sbeast64 said on April 20, 2010 at 7:40 a.m.

"With these adjustments, has Dan moved up in the tiers?

Okada:
Within the dev team, we feel that this is the Strongest Dan Ever, but his position won't change from SFIV! (laughs) That position is all his. "

I agree with most of the adjustments, but it seems like they dont care that Dan is still gonna be bottom. I thought they were trying to make it more balanced?

#35
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SoulHoe said on April 20, 2010 at 7:49 a.m.

(@ SaviorGabriel, #15... and others)

Rose essay inbound.

These adjustments have been known for quite a while. There was a post right here on eventhubs a few weeks ago that detailed her new combo options. They sounded almost too good to be true though at the time, and I was a little skeptical, so it's great to see them confirmed like this.

The new recovery on her Soul Spark hadn't been mentioned until now (I think), but it's something I noticed the very first time I saw a video with some footage of Rose in Super'. And since the difference was noticeable to my naked eye (and not on a frame data chart), I'd imagine it's going to be pretty significant. We hopefully won't be eating as many jump-ins after throwing out a poorly-judged fireball now.

Regards the Soul Piede nerf: I'm actually kind of sad about this (and confused). As others have mentioned, it wasn't the best move to begin with, and so I'm kind of curious as to why they felt the need to nerf it. But I actually have a few legit uses for it, outside of beating out the Lariat's priority; it can be useful for pre-emptively stuffing out opponent's jump attempts from a range on wakeup. A nice little tactic I employ is to move back a little ways after a knockdown, to let the opponent believe I'm letting up momentum, bait the jump, and then hit them out of the air with it. This works surprisingly well on jump-happy players until they cotton onto it. I'm not too sure if standing hard kick can be used to do the same (as the frame data and range are almost identical), but I've always just used the Soul Piede for its higher hitbox.

Another good use of the move is to hit opponents out of a jump-in, given the right spacing. You can see Luffy doing this in some of his videos. Also, to juggle off of a Level 3 anti-air Focus Attack, into EX fireball or Super, but there's rarely the opportunity for this. I'm really curious to know in what ways they've "nerfed" it now; have they reduced the damage, or the priority, or removed the juggle potential? It doesn't make any sense.

#36
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SoulHoe said on April 20, 2010 at 7:50 a.m.

One good thing though, with you mentioning Rose's lack of overhead, is that the Soul Satellite orbs hit as an overhead! Who knew, right? A lot of people so far have been seeing the move's damage and dismissing it as useless, without thinking of the inherent potential for applying pressure or bolstering your defense. Combined with the slide, and crouching shorts, I'm certain Rose players will be finding great ways to land (and combo off of) this Ultra, given some time to toy around and find the set ups. Just think: -

1) Ultra, rush (dash) toward opponent = block high.
2) Ultra, (dash), slide toward opponent = block low .

And after landing the Ultra, I understand you'll be able to hit something like a crouching short in between the orbs hitting, to combo between the hits (and maybe even force a low hit if the opponent blocks the first orb high, to cause the second orb to hit? I'm not sure about this, but I don't see why that wouldn't work?). And I'm assuming that you'll be able to combo something like a cr.MP or a jab after the second orb hits, for a fireball FADC combo/Spiral/Super etc. So much potential. So one possible combo might be:

Soul Satellite, slide, orb, cr.lk, orb, cr.mp xx Soul Spiral xx Super.

I really hope stuff like this will be possible. I imagine that's why the damage has been set so low - because the move is so tricky and versatile. It should also start up really quickly (like only a few frames, I think), making it viable as an anti-air, a largely unpunishable wakeup Ultra (no protracted recovery animation - just the benefit of having the orbs), and easily comboable off of a jump in hard kick/punch.

#37
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SoulHoe said on April 20, 2010 at 7:50 a.m.

One downside, however, is that you won't be able to use your Super while the orbs are still active. It seems OK to throw fireballs though, at least after a short start up period of a few seconds... where it's apparently not possible to perform /any/ special move (or throw), which kind of sucks. Additionally, do the orbs disappear over time, or stay active until they've hit/been blocked? Do they lose their damage potential over time, or anything like that? There's still a lot of things we don't know about the new Rose, even after blogs like this have detailed some of the changes. Someone with a copy of the game needs to be checking this stuff out and uploading it for us - as they have been with other cast members - but it seems that noone has love for Rose.

On the new HP Reflect combo options: This is pretty awesome. Only the Soul Throw is mentioned here, but it's been said that it's also possible to combo an EX fireball (for the full 2 hits now) and Illusion Spark off of a HP Reflect. This could be pretty useful, providing they're possible to perform after a trade... as anti-air HP Reflect will typically trade with jump-ins at best (unless any changes have also been made to the move's priority?). Although, Capcom /have/ said that trade Ultras are out, in addressing things like Sagat's broken combos, so will this also be the same for Rose? Even if so, trade HP Reflect to EX fireball is still pretty neat (providing this is still in) - it'll do a lot more damage than crouching fierce as an anti-air (180 vs 90).

#38
Default avatar
SoulHoe said on April 20, 2010 at 7:51 a.m.

In terms of combos using these new options, however, I can't imagine they'll be very useful. That's with the exception of finally being able to combo into Ultras, which is of course massive (1 and 2 should both juggle from a HP Reflect, apparently). But at mid-screen, a FADC will be required to perform HP Reflect into Soul Throw. And if you consider that the Reflect does less damage than Rose's other special, will the FADC really justify the damage to be landed from the Soul Throw? Here's some numbers to consider, assuming all combos will start with HP (just imagine you're punishing a whiffed Shoryuken):

Mid-screen BnB FADC combo:
HP xx LP Soul Spark FADC, cr.MP xx LP Soul Spiral - 288 damage.

Mid-screen Soul Throw FADC combo:
HP xx HP Soul Reflect FADC, Soul Throw - 252 damage.

Yeah, not all that useful. In the corner is a different story, though: -

BnB corner combo:
HP xx LP Soul Spiral - 190 damage.

Soul Throw corner combo:
HP xx HP Soul Reflect, Soul Throw - 252 damage.

Whether it'll be possible to combo a Soul Throw off of an /anti-air/ HP Reflect mid-screen though, trade or otherwise, is something I don't know...

What we need is for some dirty pirate scumbag to make good use of his dirty, pirating ways and upload some footage of Rose to the masses! It's either that or wait for release day and find out for ourselves, which I'm finding pretty excruciating.

#39
codallenschmidt's avatar
codallenschmidt said on April 20, 2010 at 7:59 a.m.

really..... thats all u did for sakura..... made her fire ball a little faster on start up. i'd rather have had quicker recover after the fire ball, its useless. u know what i love they made cody's rock really good in this game by making it faster in start up, travel speed and recover. but they took sakura's fire ball in made it slower in all of those aspects... are u serious capcom. She was put on the back burner again. :(

#40
Ixion's avatar
Ixion said on April 20, 2010 at 8:57 a.m.

"The adjustments we've made that are a bit off-course from that is that his Medium Kick, Cancel into Rapid Slap (Hyakurenkou) loop combo is a lot harder to do now. With this loop combo, even if the opponent blocked, Gen could bully them with this, and it was kind of one-sided for Gen. The flow is basically Medium Kick -> Hands -> Medium Kick -> Hands - maybe this is something that people can't ordinarily do, but with a rapid-fire pad then you can keep this up continuously. We had a lot of Gen players telling us "This isn't how Gen fights!" and as its not really Gen-like it was taken out."

Oookay, so it's harder to do, but it's also taken out.

#41
Default avatar
recovery said on April 20, 2010 at 9:08 a.m.

cool
we'll see if angry scar and dragon punch trades don't **** up the game.......

#42
Default avatar
THTB said on April 20, 2010 at 9:20 a.m.

Gen and Fei gained nothing spectactular... >_>

Meanwhile Dan got some significant buffs...Cammy's s.HK got better and j.LK crosses up better...Rose has better fireballs and can combo with ST...and Sakura has better fireballs and j.MK crosses up...

Hell, Gen got worse. Wtf is Capcom smoking?

#43
Default avatar
frankie3nig said on April 20, 2010 at 9:32 a.m.

great they kept sakura as she is. She is such a satisfying character. She honestly doesnt need buffs and she is only for technical calculating players. Great they kept that aspect about her

#44
Default avatar
Raius1 said on April 20, 2010 at 9:36 a.m.

@40 He's Dan. You play Dan to rub it in to your opponent that he's a scrub. He's not supposed to be good.

#45
Default avatar
Aftermath1349 said on April 20, 2010 at 9:41 a.m.

I'll wait to judge until I've played the game but so far it sounds like they really didn't help Fei at all. More start-up on CW? REALLY Capcom? The one move he has to get around shoto's... and you nerf it. In a game where 90+% of the user base uses a shoto, that's kind of ridiculous. Here's hoping he was buffed in a way that will make up for that.

#46
Default avatar
CONSTvariable23 said on April 20, 2010 at 9:47 a.m.

Hopefully these "priority" adjustments to Cammy turn out to be meaningful. It's kind of hard to get excited over subtle frame adjustments, especially when they're trying to outweigh a massive damage nerf, but we can hope.

Also, I think Sakura is better off than people claim. They underestimate how game-changing a good crossup can be, especially on a character who A. already has no terminally bad matchups (unlike, say, Guile), and B. was primarily weak against turtling. And let's not forget the new, easily combo'd projectile Ultra. Compare that to the "counter" Ultras and see how it stacks up.

#47
MetalxHealthx's avatar
MetalxHealthx said on April 20, 2010 at 9:50 a.m.

they could have took away the hands mk xx hands link and leave the rest of his damage alone, when you take something away from a bottom tier character they need something new to make up for it. im not disputing that gen will have new tricks but if his over damage output is less(and it sounds like it is) hes not going to fair well Capcom, give him some love.

#48
Default avatar
Dugi said on April 20, 2010 at 10:26 a.m.

I see no reason why Fei still can't combo into his ultra. It's beyond me why Capcom won't fix that.

#49
Default avatar
liluoke said on April 20, 2010 at 11 a.m.

thanks azrael again for translating

#50
GrimmjawJin's avatar
GrimmjawJin said on April 20, 2010 at 11:12 a.m.

Awesome news about cammy! For all those buffs I wouldn't mind losing damage on cannon spike. The only thing I don't agree about cammy is the counter ultra. A grab would have been perfect as I doubt many people will be using her U2.

#51
Default avatar
Darkyellow said on April 20, 2010 at 11:29 a.m.

Counter ultras are silly, especially since any competent player is going to be aware that you have a counter ready as soon as you get the Ultra meter for it. I guess you can try mashing the ultra out during a blockstring like how people mash dp. The only great counter move ever made is Gesse's joudan atemi nage, and that's only because it is freaking god like.

#52
Default avatar
Hamza said on April 20, 2010 at 11:41 a.m.

Fei can combo his Ultra. Except not for full damage just like his pal cammy. Counter ultra pal that is.

#53
Default avatar
killu4what said on April 20, 2010 at 11:45 a.m.

Gen can still do his mk->hands as seen in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gs5omi...
Like he said its harder to do the link/loop combo. Sooooo stop crying he got mostly buffs

#54
Default avatar
jonnycbad said on April 20, 2010 at 12:25 p.m.

1) What's the point of using Hard or Fierce Cannon Spike when all do the same damage?

2) I can't wait to play as Rose and get someone without projectiles to 5% health then just use Soul Satellite and afk and make a sammich.

#55
SteadiestShark's avatar
SteadiestShark said on April 20, 2010 at 12:55 p.m.

@ 58

Cammy's non-full ultra 1 actually does quite a lot of damage, Fei's does practically nothing...

@ 24

Isn't ANY wake-up move considered "armour breaking"? Other ultras have also shown to break them (ones that I don't think have armour breaking properties).

They're even more useless when you take in the fact that ultra cutscenes freeze inputs (which otherwise might have occurred) - and that you get the huge noise and cutscene itself telling you not to do anything.

#56
Default avatar
whinerhubs_com said on April 20, 2010 at 12:58 p.m.

Gen mk can still cancel to any special move including hundred hands. They actually buff Gen mk because it comes out much faster than old sf4. But the side effect is that you have less time to input for the regular hands. I can actually do the mk => EX hands => mk => EX hands in a first few tries and I don't usually play Gen. It is definitely not as hard as 1 frame link, no way Gen player will have a hard time doing it. Except that Mr. Wiener Wizard from SRK of course.

Gen is basically broken in SF4 because Mantis style is so overpowering Crane style with SRK-kick, super, ultra and mk=>hands. People is abusing mk=> hands and play exclusively in Mantis style. No one play in Crane style anymore except EX escape. Capcom think this is not how Gen is suppose to be played. They didn't really nerf Gen mantis style at all beside "buff" (speeding up) the mk and stop the abuse. They buff up Crane style A LOT I can tell you that.

Most of you whiners can't even do one FADC consistently so you probably don't know. Cannon Spike > FADC >cannon spike > FADC > ultra takes out something like 670 damages for such easy hit confirm combo. That's Sagat territory. This is why they nerf cannon spike. Capcom don't want people simply abusing just one particular strong move, that's why they made those decision.

They didn't mention but Capcom actually nerf Dan l.knee kick, both air and ground, it has less priority now.

And remember it's not Capcom fault that you lose. You lose because you suck not because of the tier list. Stop whining.

#57
Default avatar
Sakura said on April 20, 2010 at 12:59 p.m.

Spending time to improve Dan contradicts his entire reason for existing...

The dev team are a bunch of idiots...

#58
Wardog's avatar
Wardog said on April 20, 2010 at 1:04 p.m.

Yeah Dan the Man.

#59
hugeratjar's avatar
hugeratjar said on April 20, 2010 at 1:06 p.m.

@DiasFlac0g haha i main rose to but the standing hard kick was my key to beating giefs D: oh well still love the things they did to her as for the rest of the cast its all good just wait till we get the game and see how people make the best of it

#60
Wardog's avatar
Wardog said on April 20, 2010 at 1:08 p.m.

@63 The dev was smart enough to buff Dan, because he's the man.

#61
Nyoro's avatar
Nyoronoru said on April 20, 2010 at 1:24 p.m.

Dan is the best character in the game, so I guess they were afraid of buffing him too much.

#62
Default avatar
killu4what said on April 20, 2010 at 2:14 p.m.

@62 preach brother preach

#63
Default avatar
griever2000 said on April 20, 2010 at 3 p.m.

@62
too bad 70% of the people here will still whine about everything :/ wait till capcom starts revealing characters for mvc3 lol...

#64
Default avatar
KenScrub said on April 20, 2010 at 3:42 p.m.

You just don't nerf Cannon Spike just like that. If they are going to do that I demand a nerf of all DPs to 100dmg. FU|CK YOU CAPCOM!

#65
Default avatar
frankie3nig said on April 20, 2010 at 4 p.m.

people like kenscrub make eventhubs look bad :(

#66
Default avatar
Bolton said on April 20, 2010 at 4:25 p.m.

@71 Jesus Christ, haven't you read the other updates? Sagat's DPs are a 100 across the board unless you use Angry Scar which ups the damage to 180. Don't believe me? Here's the link: http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2010/ma...

Like #62 said, cannon spike > FADC > cannon spike > FADC > ultra took off 670 damage which is near what Sagat can dish out, so therefore, it's changed. In addition, before the combo mentioned above, you can add on two (or more, not sure) EX cannon strikes > cl. HP to it as well.

#67
Default avatar
Darkyellow said on April 20, 2010 at 4:55 p.m.

Eventhubs is scrub shoryuken.com, but it does have easier to access news updates.

#68
Default avatar
Hadookie said on April 20, 2010 at 5:19 p.m.

Cannon spike is also possibly the safest of all the srk type specials. I mean it's not safe safe, just more safe...

Sakura is lookin really good :D
The ONLY thing I felt that she needed was a better antiair option, which U2 gives and then some. Crossover j.mk is a yummy luxury.

The counter ultras are sounding pretty disappointing so far. Can't counter armorbreak moves? How sad...

Maybe they'll have some awesome property of being able to used any time during recovery frames or something, but that's just being a tad too optimistic.

Hopefully you can at least tech normal grabs during a counter fail lol

#69
Default avatar
SaikyoRyu said on April 20, 2010 at 6:04 p.m.

@Nyoronoru

"Dan is the best character in the game, so I guess they were afraid of buffing him too much."

Hear! Hear! Seriously, if people just spent time learning his moves like they learn Abel's or Akuma's then they'd realize he's not so bad. Just because it's a bit harder to vs sagat doesn't mean he's not good vs others (like Abel and Zangief).

#70
Default avatar
supershinbison said on April 20, 2010 at 7:03 p.m.

man whats up with all the gen and cammy crybabies? they got some pretty decent buffs. you cammy and gen whiners keep crying about "oh my dp dmg is down" or "my m kick hands is harder" look at all the positive things you received versus the nerfs. stop crying cuz your character could have gotten worse so be happy and enjoy your improvements. stop the crying!

#71
Default avatar
chickenwings said on April 21, 2010 at 12:34 a.m.

@77

dude, nerfing characters that arent top tier makes no sense. So all that "crying" is justified. Its not like cammy and gen dont have bad match ups or design flaws that balance them out.

#72
Default avatar
supershinbison said on April 21, 2010 at 2:54 a.m.

@78
dude cammy and gen got plenty of good buffs so why are u complaining? in a fighting game there will always be better characters. that's just how things go but at least capcom took the time out to give them some good buffs. they could have just left them like crap and did nothing so be thankful they are better now. you can't expect every character to play as easy as others some characters just have to work a little harder so again just be happy they are improved.

#73
Default avatar
KenScrub said on April 21, 2010 at 4:28 a.m.

@73
Learn to fu|cking read.

I said "ALL" DP's be NERF to 100 to justify doing this to cammy. Its not balance if you got FagRyu@Ken doing more dmg in DPs for example.

This is bullsh|it!

#74
drunkendan's avatar
drunkendan said on April 21, 2010 at 8:34 a.m.

being a Sakura player hearing her adjustments made me happy. The slow hadouken always bugged me. Back in the alpha days I was fast enough to match or even best some ken and ryu players with my hadouken(when stoping theres and or getting into a hadouken fight lol) also the better cross up will make my life easier

@23
agreed on cammy's teir. She is tough when in the hands of a good player. I personally IGNORE teirs in favor of playing a character I am good at and have fun playing. Besides teirs change with the seasons. One of my favorite examples of this is SC2's Cassandra. She was ORGINALLY low tier until one guy went to a tournament and DESTROYED EVERYONE with her. After that she got more people playing her and has been on the upper tiers list.

#75
Default avatar
frankie3nig said on April 21, 2010 at 10:28 a.m.

@ chickenwings

crying is never justified I mean cmon can you be a bit more reasonable. Cammy got buffs in replace of her dmg nerf on cannon spike for safer and quicker moves in general why are you even complaining about that. Plus all dmg is down across the board. If you are not a tier whore then nerfs or buffs shouldnt even matter, not saying you cant be salty about it but just deal with it and overcome. Plus what wrong with working hard for a win, I typically thought thats what people liked about fighting games, the challenge of fighting uphill battles. Like supershinbison said you cant expect everycharacter to play as easy as others because well its a fighting game and it has to have variety. The rock paper scissor analogy on the game is what makes a game interesting and competitive If I am wrong say so.

@drunkendan
agreed lol

#76
Default avatar
Guile4Life said on April 21, 2010 at 5:40 p.m.

exactly frankie took the words right out of my mouth im just glad guile can projectile fight now.

#77
Default avatar
supershinbison said on April 21, 2010 at 5:42 p.m.

@frankie3nig
thanks frankie like you i get sick of these whiners. just plain irritating if u ask me. yeah its true like we both said some characters will have to work harder for their wins but that doesn't mean you shouldn't use them. there a lot of good people out there who wreak house with low tiers so i don't want to hear these whiners either. hey frankie we have to team up. you, me and your bro man what a mean team that would be. bison viper and abel team sounds awesome.

#78
Default avatar
frankie3nig said on April 21, 2010 at 6:20 p.m.

@ supershinbison
yea that sounds cool and dont 4get I have two mains now. Im very interchangeable between sakura and viper however I cannot use sakura unless its 5 bars because well her links are 1 and 2 frame links so its its a pain to do them with lag. But yea lets fu** sh** up lmao

#79
Default avatar
frankie3nig said on April 21, 2010 at 6:25 p.m.

@Guile4Life
your name says it all I commend u for that :) I guess the sakura and guile matchup shifted more in guiles favor this time around I assume but who cares bring it lol

#80
Default avatar
supershinbison said on April 22, 2010 at 2:11 a.m.

@frankie3nig
oh yeah i forgot about sakura.yeah and trust me i know all about lag and hate it as much as you so hopefully we can find a lot of good connections so we can both play better than normal. online hampers a lot with linking especially characters with 1 frame links but yeah man you, your bro and me on a team. that's going to be awesome. can't wait!

#81
MrPavy's avatar
MrPavy said on April 22, 2010 at 4:45 a.m.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ihe6iz...

#82
Default avatar
Tabris said on April 22, 2010 at 9:36 a.m.

@52

The thing about Sakura having a game-changing cross-up is that her entire mixup depends on a correct 50/50 guess by the other person and it's back to square one. Great when you get momentum, but it doesn't take much to ruin it all :(

I didn't want her to get huge buffs either, but if they made the EX Otoshi an overhead, that would have been great.

#83


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