Update: Even more character notes were added to this post along with other stuff.Fasol:
Not enough time playing but it seems overall balanced.
Sharin:
First impressions are good. He was expecting more of the same with the same characters over and over but Capcom seems to have taken the right decision to bring down some of the top characters and the new people tend to be generally more offensive changing the dynamic of the game from the overly defensive play style of Street Fighter 4. There should be an overall change in the variety of playstyles.
Hell:
Very good impression. Capcom has added a lot of new content and has also made good changes to the existing characters. Feels that it is overall more balanced and the holy trinity of Ryu, Akuma and Sagat will probably be changed up, though it's too early to tell.
Ricky:
Looks very good, highly recommended. The game seems to be fairly balanced. Sagat took some pretty serious nerfs and it requires that you be more precise/careful in what you do. But overall pretty balanced.
Saku:
Loves the game. The game is much more offensive in general. We won't know right away what the real depth of the game is and if the game is really balanced for another 6 months to a year but up front it looks pretty balanced. Hopefully nothing really broken will be found.
Discussion about there not being a pre-release in the arcades. Particularly what happens with the balance if it hasn't been tested in the arcades.
It seems that it was thoroughly tested by pro gamers. The lack of an Arcade release in Japan is going to be worrisome because the Japanese play on a completely different level. This will probably slow down discoveries relating to Super Street Fighter IV.
Character changes and impressions
Abel:
New Ultra 2 is good, great for messing with fireball characters, plus it has Super Armor. Can be delayed and canceled entirely if you don't think you can land it. It's a grab and moves about as or slightly faster than his old Ultra. Can't combo like his Ultra 1 though. Probably still in the same tier rank as before (mid high). Comments that overall the balance is much better in SSFIV.
Adon:
Is geared towards being more newcomer friendly. Doesn't really have a lot of tools, a lot of 50-50s but the consensus is that once the matchup is understood he shouldn't be a character we'll see a lot in tourneys.
Akuma:
Is pretty much this game's S-Tier. He's exactly the same except loop isn't gone, just much more strict, fewer hits will land and can only seem to pull it off 2/10 times. Fireball does far less damage and Standing Hard Kick's damage was nerfed too.
Balrog:
Some of the changes seem to make no sense because they pretty much changed nothing at all.
Because of all the nerfs his matchup against Sagat is now probably 5-5. Generally a lot of his bad matchups got better and his good ones might have gotten better. Talks of top 5 (Note: there seems to be a lot of people in the top 5) Ultra 2 is completely useless. No range, slow, pointless.
Blanka:
Virtually unchanged. Still highly dependent on shenanigans and people not knowing the match up.
Cammy:
Ultra 2 (counter move) is a joke. Ultra 1 is still the best. Cammy has a lot of potential, has been improved a lot. Will probably see her in tourneys more.
Chun-Li:
Ultra 2 (Super Fireball) is insane. Can be landed from a lot of different situations. Top character for sure.
EX-Lightning Legs into Ultra 2 combo does a lot of damage.
Other than this Chun-Li hasn't changed otherwise. Because of her Ultra 2 she has gotten much, much better and is probably in the top.
Ultra 2 isn't a charge move, but a motion command.
Cody:
Absolutely fantastic character. When Hell first played Cody he approached it like he was playing Alpha 3, but kept losing. The Zonk Knuckle attack, hold down punch for a few seconds and let go, seems to beat a lot of moves clean, combos, and then setups Ultra opportunities. It seems to be the move with most invulnerability. It seems to actually beat Zangief's Lariats. Bad Stone is a really powerful projectile. It's fast, almost no recovery, you can feint, you can delay it. He has a lot of really good normals, has some really damaging combos. General consensus is that he's a top tier, probably in top 5. Seems to place behind Ibuki and Dudley. Will probably be the new Ken online. Knife: 4 Light Punch link takes off 125 damage. Triples the range of his normals, does chip (block) damage and increases priority.
C. Viper:
Almost nothing has changed. The main difference is she won't die as quickly to Sagat and others due to damage nerf. Ultra 2 is matchup dependent, mostly to counter anti airs like Shoryukens, to keep shotokan characters from spamming anti airs. Hard Punch, Super Jump Cancel, Hard Punch into Ultra 2 seems to work, but not very damaging. Seems to be nearing top 10, some say top 5.
Dan:
No longer the worst character. Has a FADC combo that does 450 damage. His Fireball has much better range. The Dan Kicks have some uses (like it crosses up for example).
Dee Jay:
Seems like he's a good Guile. Solid, not likely to have any really bad match ups. Has the tools to deal with most characters. He has good normals, good Ultras. Being a charge character is holding him back a bit (joke about motion characters having an advantage in Street Fighter 4) but otherwise he will essentially be what Guile should have been. The crumple stun off of his kicks were removed. It was completely broken. Now he's pretty average but solid.
Dhalsim:
Ultra 2 is a grab. Still kind of bad. Didn't get the changes he needed.
Dudley:
Is close to being the best character in the game, but not quite. Has insane wakeup game, great tools. His overhead is the best in the game. His damage output rivals Sagat's in Street Fighter 4. All of his specials are good. His Focus Attack is one of the fastest in the game. His Shoryuken (Jet Uppercut) is strange, and probably his weakest move.
Normals have very little range (compared to Balrog). His Light Punch does seem to have good range and is very fast. If he gets in -- he will destroy you -- but might have difficulty doing it. Akuma's keep away and escape ability might give him a lot of trouble. Akuma and Ryu might be bad match ups.
Based on this he might be in the top 5.
In the corner good luck getting away from him.
Not only is his overhead good but he can actually combo from it, including a Link into Crouching Hard Kick!
Lots of back and forth about his character not being quite Sagat Tier. 1050 life for Dudley. Apparently his Light Punch Jet Uppercut, into Hard Punch Jet Uppercut into Super hurts a lot, but only in the corner. And you can't hit confirm it.
El Fuerte:
Has 950 hit points now. Ultra 2 changes a lot of his game. Does about 500 damage, and startup is only about 3-4 frames. It moves forward quickly as well and it's a grab. Basically it punishes almost everything. They changed some of his priorities and hitboxes. His loop is much harder to do.
E. Honda:
Pretty much the same. EX-Headbutt has invulnerability now. Ultra 2 is a command grab, pretty damaging but works like a beefed up Oicho Throw. Hundred Hand Slap can probably be FADC'd into Ultra. It's not a combo though, it's a 50-50 but because his dash is fast this can be really good.
Fei Long:
Pretty much the same. Chicken Wing (Flying Kick) has less priority, startup invulnerability and might be punishable. Because of the changes to the game he might fare better.
Gen:
Jump is less safe now, more floaty, similar to Ryu. Gen used to be able to abuse of his old jump arc against other characters like T. Hawk could.
Gouken:
Indications are he's more or less the same. His Ultra 2 is much better and can be comboed from a lot of moves, much better than Ultra 1 (like from Running Palms and EX-Hurricane Kick FADC).
Guile:
A lot of joking around about his sunglasses. It's useless and seems to be his only significant change. There seems to be some changes to his normals. Making SSFIV offensive and nerfing Sagat and Ryu will help him as well, more competitive. Sonic Hurricane can be used as anti air. His Ultra 1 has been improved too (they don't say how), Flash Kicks are improved, seem to have more range. His place in the tier list probably won't change much but he might go up a bit. Still destroys M. Bison for free.
Guy:
Lots of potential. Evades projectiles with shoulder charge. Ultra can be comboed into. Target combo juggles. Might be possible to FADC the last hit into Ultra, this hasn't been tested though.
Hits pretty hard, has good wakeup options with his Hurricane Kick, it has good invulnerability on startup. He has good throws, good pressure and all around solid character with good mixups and dominates in the corner. He seems to have some really bad match ups though (not indicated which ones).
Hakan:
Is a love him or hate him character.
Very peculiar fighter. Oil completely changes his game. His throws gain 3x the range and his normals have stupid range with oil. If you can get into your opponent's mind he will devastate but will lose to rushdowns who keep him from oiling up. Can't compete against Ryu or Akuma. Probably mid tier. Like Blanka, if you don't know the match up he will destroy you but once you figure out it will be pretty even. His Ultra beats pretty much any move where you're considered airborne.
Ibuki:
Comparable to Street Fighter 4's Akuma. Seems to have vortex like Akuma. Good mixups on wakeup, does good stun. Can actually combo into her Ultra with Super Jump Canceling her target combos. She's more technical, like Viper, but can be really scary in the right hands. Seems like a cross between Viper and Akuma in that regard. She has 900 hit points overall, so she will die quickly. This makes her one of the trickier characters to use. Top tier definitely. Juri is powerful, but possibly boring to use -- Ibuki is more complete and more fun to use.
Juri:
Seems to be very promising. Joking that the Custom Combo Ultra (Feng Shui Engine) basically makes her link all her normals into each other, kind of like Ryu in Street Fighter 4, but without requiring good timing. Spin Kick is excellent for pressure. Very complete, fairly powerful, and relatively simple character.
Spin Kick is similar to Bison's Scissor Kick or Sagat's Tiger Knee in that it's fairly safe on block. Pretty powerful.
Custom Combo, just screwing around they got a 390 damage combo, and still had bar remaining. So her Feng Shui Engine can be very powerful once its potential can be fully discovered. You can probably land a few of those combos per Ultra. Land a combo once, get a knock down, do a mix up and then land another combo for another 300 damage (more or less).
Ken:
His Ultra 2 goes through fireballs from mid screen. Air EX-Hurricane Kick can also help set up his Ultra 2. Focus Cancel EX-Fireball into Ultra 2 does about 450 damage, timing is strict and it uses 3 bars. Sweep is faster, not quite as good as Ryu's. Walk speed is very slightly faster. His Fireballs have same recovery but they move across the screen faster which means the Crouching Medium Kick into Fireball is more likely to combo. His Shoryukens have better priority. Mid tier most likely. Dash is slight faster. So is his Focus Attack. Apparently Capcom has a sense of humor. One of his win quotes says something like, "You're as easy to read as a flowchart."
Makoto:
She has changed the most relative to her Street Fighter 3 Third Strike incarnation. She has lost options but she has better normals and seems to be more solid. She will take a while to get used to. She seems like she will be competitive. The Kara-Karakusa (Grab and Choke) is in the game. She is purely offensive, all or nothing character. She can now do a lot of her Kara mind games like in Third Strike. She can Kara-Karakusa from Hayate (Dash Punch) so the defender has to guess properly now instead of regaining momentum by default. In the right hands she can be really scary. She isn't top tier. Reversals being powerful in Street Fighter 4 kind of ruins her game relative to Third Strike but she still has potential.
M. Bison:
Significant improvements. Damage was nerfed a bit but nerfs all around to Sagat and Ryu help a lot and his Ultra 2 is great. Full screen. Looks like El Fuerte's but has different properties, it's faster, and actually useful. Can be done on reaction against fireballs and crosses up. Can be jumped out of however. It's not a throw, it's a hit (similar to his Head Stomp) so it can be blocked. This is especially good against Shotokan characters. Once he has Ultra it shuts down most fireball games and it hits hard enough to be scary. Psycho Crusher has a full body hitbox, it's much faster and it does more damage. Possibly might be higher ranked than Cody. Not top 5, but definitely going up in tiers.
Rose:
Has gotten better. Can combo into Soul Throw.
Rufus:
Damage is now much, much more reasonable. Joking about how he isn't quite as brain dead as he was. EX-Snake Strike and EX-Messiah Kick have been scaled down considerably. Ultra damage nerfs have hit Rufus harder than others because of how he was played. His Ultra 2 doesn't seem that good, few setups. He's still high tier.
Ryu:
Basically the same. The major difference is the loss of a lot priority. Both Hard and Medium Punch Shoryukens do 2 hits and only first hit is Cancelable. Trade into ultra is still possible but only under certain cases. It's no longer free, but possible.
Also can't Cancel into his Super as long as a Fireball is on screen so no more traps for characters neutral jumping fireballs (otherwise doesn't seem to change much). Damage is slightly nerfed but nothing really dramatic. There's a damage nerf across the board. Not as dramatic as Sagat. (Those who stayed the same are Honda, Balrog and Guile)
Ryu remains top 5.
Ultra 2 (Metsu Shoryuken) doesn't seem to be as good as Ultra 1 (Ultra Fireball). Its only use seems to be in relation to the discovered unblockable. Its use is more aesthetic than anything else. No real reason to use it considering how versatile Ultra 1 is.
Sagat:
Sagat has 1050 hp confirmed. Used to be make 2 mistakes against Sagat and you were dead. Now it's more even. Almost all the damage off of his moves has been considerably scaled back. Mid range Tiger Knee seems to take off 20 to 30 instead of 100. He's lost 50 hit points and he has had some of his tools taken away.
In Street Fighter 4 he's got a huge hitbox, prone to cross ups and he's slow. That hasn't changed. So those who will want to win with Sagat will have to earn it. He's still very competitive, but you can't just eek out a win like you could in vanilla. He's lost his really abusive tactics. Basically noobs will cry a lot and those who know what they're doing will still do very well.
Has a new evasion tool (angry scar). Has super properties: freezes time, ups the damage of his Tiger Uppercut to what it used to do, minus 10 damage points. Also changes some of the properties of the Tiger Uppercut, for example he can combo into some things which you couldn't before.
Most of his Kara moves seems to still be in. Can still land Standing Hard Kick on trade, but it's dependent on how deep you trade (probably character dependent).
Tiger Uppercut wasn't nerfed as much as Ryu's Shoryuken, at least if you do them from a crouching position. Shoryukens don't dominate as much. Overall Sagat won't change that much in terms of tiers. They've just been compressed somewhat. He will probably have at least one bad match up.
Ultra 2 seems to be only useful against projectile characters. You can throw it out on reaction against midscreen fireballs.
Sakura:
Has her Jumping Medium Kick cross up back. Can combo into Ultra. She's more aligned with her old self. However she won't improve much in terms of her tiers. She needed a lot more to compete and didn't get anything.
Seth:
Life is the same but since other characters do less damage he's in much better shape. Seth had a lot of really bad and a lot of good match ups. His Ultra 2 means that off his combos he can do a lot of damage and makes him much scarier. Command grab does more damage. He can land Ultra 2 from a lot of things, like where he used to follow up with his Chun-Li Kicks he can now use Ultra 2.
T. Hawk:
A joke about there being a pink Hawk. He has the biggest hitbox and most life in the game. 1150 hit points, hits like a mack truck. Can fly around the screen and has some ridiculously damaging combos. The command throw has some ridiculous range. Everybody had more or less dismissed Hawk as a joke character but based on tests it seems that he will have some really good and really bad match ups, but overall pretty competitive. He has trouble getting around fireballs but against characters who have to get in, like Dudley, he is very scary. Jumping Light Punch and Standing Light Punch tick loops from Super Turbo are not possible. There's a whiff animation on his command grab, but it might be possible to option select, it's not clear yet. T. Hawk can be scary.
Vega:
Ultra 1 hits on the way up like EX-Wall Dive. Easily one of the best Ultras of the game. They say that making a mistake and you will eat the Ultra. 2nd Ultra is also pretty good. It has good range and priority. His normals seem to have better priority. His fake overhead in vanilla is now an actual overhead. Not very damaging, but useful.
Zangief:
Life has gone down, Lariat is much easier to punish. Normals do less damage. Banishing Flat (Green Glove) does less damage. Ultra does less damage. Ultra 2 has some uses. He's still a dominating character however. His Lariat is still scary and his match ups probably won't change much, if at all. He won't kill you in a few hits now.
More general comments:
• Better stages. Africa is awesome, lots of things going around in the background. Great music.
Seth's stage is really nice too, better music.
• You can now hear all the remixed classic themes but Capcom went about it in a half assed way.
You you have to actually change icon and your title in order to hear the themes. Apparently there's no actual option to hear them. Correction: You use the default icons to enable the classic themes.
• Bonus rounds are useless. It's there to please noobs, but they're garbage.
• Discussion about how Capcom is trying to balance its two types of consumers, hardcore and casuals. Bonus rounds are a concession to the latter group.
• All characters are unlocked up front.
• Seems more competitive in general but certain things cater to noobs.
• Having a SFIV save unlocks the 11th color. You still apparently have to unlock others. They haven't seen it however.
• The intro and ending animations haven't really improved much. Joking about Hakan's story, apparently completely absurd.
• Time trial and Survival are gone. Challenge mode is a disappointment. Old character challenges are the same, or at least seem to be. Can be done in any order.
• SSFIV overall seems to be one of the most balanced games Capcom has made. Capcom's claims that everyone was going to be Sagat tier. Rather they brought down the top and compressed the tiers more.
• Things that used to be really abusive are more or less gone.
• New characters however do not seem to have been considered in the overall balance. They seem to do a lot of damage and have a lot of tools. Furthermore because they're so offensive they seem to mesh a lot more than the vanilla SF4 characters.
• Turtling won't dominate as much in Super. Still useful for certain characters but it's not the dominating tactic it was in vanilla.
• There seemed to be a lot of back on forth on the subject of Dudley. Some people were saying he was the new Sagat and others saying he wasn't quite that good and he's probably on par with Akuma. Either way Dudley is going to be very good.
I still don't understand why the game is considered more offensive than vanilla. It's not sped up like some people thought, there's no block/stagger meter. The only overall change from what I've heard, aside from character-specific changes, is that Level 2 focus attacks charge faster... that alone isn't going to make the game more offensive. It'd make it more defensive if anything -- why would I want to rush down someone if that can get an easier crumple?
I'm not sure why everyone seems so impressed with Dudley, he's a cool character and has great options but in the videos I've seen his long combos actually don't do much damage. Ibuki looks much more dangerous than Dudley to me. Also, T. Hawk is definitely better than people are giving him credit for, though a lot of that is because of how little attention he's been given relative to, well, pretty much everyone else.
they added 10 new characters, 8 of which play in close range. Dragon punches do less damage, and trade ultra has been removed for the most part. Damage from DPxx FADC Ultra (part of the reason why sf4 was so defensive, cuz certain characters had an out if you tried to rush em down, which led to stalemates) has been reduced for the top characters, and a state that lets characters apply better pressure on a characters knockdown sounds more offensive to me than sf4.
Makoto you still rock and I don't care if your top tier or not. Me and you are going to make magic in Super Street Fighter 4. Grab and Choke baby!!!!!!!!!!!
For Abel:
"New U2 is good, great for messing with firebal characters. Has armor. Can be delayed. Can be canceled, grab and moves about as or slightly faster than the old Ultra. Can't combo like the U1 though. Probably still in the same tier rank as before (mid high). Comments that overall the balance is much better in super".
@Shaft, Even with all that, I don't expect there to be much of a shift in play style. And damage from dp/fadc/ultra might have been reduced, but it's still doing a decent amount of damage that no one will want to eat.
It just seems like they could've done so more... like a stagger meter, like making more strict timing for reversals. It seems like people will still be able to mash reversals in between missed block strings, which is really unfortunate.
yeah, the could've, but they wanted to cater to the audience who wants to do specials without having to hit a strict window. it would've helped if you couldn't fadc a dp on block, but they didn't. It's the direction newer fighting games are taking to insure sells with the mass market, and we gotta deal with it and look at the positives.
So, Ryu is a bad match up for Dudely, and Dudely isn't God tier, and possibly not in top 5, that's quaint XD. Ryu Should be 3rd or 4th considering Balrog didn't change ryu will trail him sucks. All in all Ryu my main, will still be essentially the best character in this iteration, as well. Im a bit upset with Ryu being picked on because good players like myself used him with great proficiency. Leading to Capcom highlighting Ryu pertaining to "nerfs" due to the querulous one's who to me, were equal to infants. If Balrog, was 1- 2 points under Ryu why didn't you nerf Balrog? That alone is truly addling me, terribly vexed at that, oh well thier game not mine, i think i will still win 92% of online fights with ease. Im just under master lvl that being the lvl of expertise, if any1 would care to engage me im not arrogant, just play, add cuffg.
Lol, i wanna see a Seth vs. Gief SSF4 match. It's gonna be a 10 - 0 matchup :D
E.Honda's attacks are not nerfed and his headbutt has invincibility?
All changes ar ebasically fine, but E.Honda is the character to be abused in SSF4. Mostly he could easily do more damage than Sagats and his Headbutt was save on block for the most matchups. If he can now go through fireballs, E.Honda can be the broken tier, but ust probably.. the game needs to be played before being judged.
Ah, I forgot.
Ban Balrog from tournaments, god damn it. He is a DEATH-MATCHUP for half of the characters and finally he was not nerfed, awesome.
But as I said already before, this is just theory.
@ 11
You mean to tell me that you think that a 7 foot tall man who is a champion fighter in Muay Thai should have only 50 hp more than a 5 foot 5 girl who probably weighs 150 lbs less than me does minimum? Just... think about for a sec
"Bonus rounds are useless. It's there to please noobs, but they're garbage."
"Seems more competitive in general but certain things cater to noobs."
This kind of mentality needs to stop. Who really cares if you think it's just for "noobs" Respect lost in my opinion.
LOL i love how ex dread kicks crumpling is broken but ex legs into ultra or any head but into ultra is fine.
So uhh...according to these guys there's like 10 characters in the top 5. Someone should explain to them what top 5 means.
Also, I'm skeptical on a lot of the things that has been mentioned, mainly because a good chunk of it clashes with what we've previously heard.
@ #33 totally agree...
@ #21 TheShotokan:
If Boxer is only 1-2 points below Ryu, then why is it that almost ALL major tounments winners are Ryu users. Boxer has not one one major tournment since launch.
The only exception that currently comes to mind is Arcade Infinity Ranbats and GOotecks winning some tourneys wit Boxer.
Quick note about Abel:
"Can be delayed and Canceled into"
It can't be canceled into. What I meant to say is that it can be canceled similarly to how Makoto can cancel a Hayate with a kick so if you throw out an Ultra and think you can't land it you can avoid having to eat the recovery by canceling it before it comes out.
[Edit: Thanks for clarifying, story edited.]
This thing is 190 mins long!!!!
And im a spanish speaker... man it seems im gonna be in here for a while.
@ #32 EasierToRun09
I agree, thats pretty crappy to have that kind of mentality. Just because you are a seasoned veteran at 2D fighters shouldn't give you the right to downplay new comers.
Now with these changes lets see who has skill and who was just winning because of overpowered characters with easy setup options from multiple ways. I'm sure when the game comes out somebody will be crying because one of the new characters is too strong. We all have seen the videos on who has what and what damage they do, so it aint no surprise when the game comes and it shouldn't be no whining this time around. The game comes out to everywhere the same time. So if you still complain (unless your a Sagat or Ryu player). That just means you suck and are going to complain every time a game comes out because you don't know how to play correctly and pull the combos off. :D
the only thing that sounded good was that def play isnt going to be a dominate strategy, but then again i have to question that assessment. Can i rush down with any character or do i have to pick dudley?
I hate how they screwed blanka though. Geting hit for landing an attack is unacceptable. ANd i still dont understand why people cry about him, he has zero safe attacks and his normals suck, and in super hes looking the same. Hondas headbutt is alot safer, does ALOT more dmg, NOW has invic frames, AND it gives u a very important knock down. Yet nobody complains that its op'd, so why does the blanka ball have none of those attributes?
"• Bonus rounds are useless. It's there to please noobs, but they're garbage."
"• Discussion about how Capcom is trying to balance its two types of consumers, hardcore and casuals. Bonus rounds are a concession to the latter group."
What the hell? They're there for the nostalgia, for fun! They should calm down for a second and remember that video games are supposed to be fun.
@yorkeh
100% truth, the bonus rounds were put in for giggles and shows that cpacom listens to the fans(nobody here cant say they didnt miss them in 4).
@chickenwings
blanka was better than e.honda in sf4... just check any tier list. they improved honda so he can deal better with projectile characters. It makes sense... please don't complain. I read somewhere else that there are some subtle changes done to blanka. Check past articles here at eh and you will find it. cheers!
Bonus stages may be pointless but I doubt thier for noobs. A new player wouldn't even understand why it was added. I'm certain it was meant as a little throw back to sf2 players just for a little nostalgia.
@58
Akuma is what, third now? Sagat had incredibly high damage, which has been nerfed. Ryu had amazing ultra potential and a fireball trap, which have both been nerfed. Akuma has been nerfed, but presumably not that much.
To be fair, though, any tier discussion at this point is entirely speculation and won't hold ground a month after Super is out.
very vague Cammy impressions. what did she improve on????
I'm already looking forward to the game regardless of all the nerfs and such. I would enjoy it as it is any other game.
@nelaelu
Are u kiding me? LOL, dude. Lets compare blanka vs honda. Honda does more dmg, ochio is awsome(if blanka had the headbits it wouldnt matter, but he doesnt), he has more health, he has BETTER normals, and above all else headbutts are ALOT safer. Honda has legit ways to land dmg. U cant combo into niether of there ultras so that doesnt matter. Blanka on the other hand has crap normals, and the ball is almost never safe. THe only advantages blanka has over honda is speed and ex ball goes through fireballs, thats it. And out of the fireball characters who does blanka beat? Guile? LOL THe tier placement for blanka is laughable at best. He has SO many holes in his game and even his 5/5 matchups u have times here u cant use the ball at all. And if u want to talk about who has the better turtle honda also wins that by far. Pound for pound honda is a better character. The only reason people think blanka is better is because they dont know how to fight him. Once the tricks stop working blanka stops wining, and thats were honda starts to shine.
I don't understand with all the nerf Akuma has, how is it possible his one of the top?
@icandohadouken
U havent seen a good one in action. Alot of options and mix ups, ALOT of dmg. The only thing keeping him balanced is the stamia rating. And as for his nerfs they didnt do anything crazy, they just made rh loop alot harder to do.
Regarding Akuma:
He basically has his votex intact, he still has all his tools, his excellent footsies, his really good specials. He can still zone the tar out of virtually everyone and still does really good damage and stun.
The things they nerfed weren't the things that made him good. They left those in and removed things that seemed unfair like the loop (which Akuma didn't need to win anyways).
Akuma was always a combination keepaway and rush down character. Now that SFIV is more offense oriented and now that reversals are less prominent Akuma is going to have an easier time getting in there and keeping his opponent locked down.
I think with all these nerfs in Sagat he'll be not in top 5. Ibuki is probably the best character with all her great moves and combos. Dudley is very powerful with those srks and his guessing game will be amazing. Boxer will still be great since he didn't change much. Ryu seems to be just good since SSF4 won't be all srk and fireball games. Akuma seems the same from what I've seen so I don't see him being the best. I think it'll be in order Ibuki, Dudley, Boxer, Ryu and Cody. I think Cody looks good from his moves and those rocks are no joke. But we'll just have to see when it comes out to know for sure.
Akuma has to be the best, he just has to:D
i mean, come on he has red hair man:O
jk but he is one of the most badass character in Street Fighter History..
"Capcom's claims that everyone was going to be Sagat tier. Rather they brought down the top and compressed the tiers more."
basically, they were too lazy to focus on just buffing the lower tiers so they brought out the nerf stick for the top tiers
SSF4: the way of the nerf
@chickenwings
The first thing. Sorry for my English knowledge.
The second.
I'm a Honda mainer, but I also play with Rose and Blanka. So I have a little knowledge of both sides.
Firs of all.
Blanka has a great mixup. I mean one single c.MK easily can followed by a lot of combo and mixup. (If I count it right, blanka can do 15 thing, after it) And the c.MK not the only thing he can do. ;) This is the real potential of Blanka. He has a lot of tools, to "MindF***" his opponent. And the hop gives him a lot of mobility. (And he has some really good normal move..)
In the other hand.
Honda can deal a lot of dmg with her mixup. And a lot of dmg, if he gets in. But the first thing you need to do with him, is to get in. Its not that easy. :D
Honda vs Blanka:
If you are a blanka player.:
-Use a lot of fake blanka ball, and use hit confirm.
-Use your hop and your crossup. Honda can't beat the crossups, and of course he louse the charge.
-HP>Headbut (Timing is tricky), Coward Crouch>Headbut, J.HK>Lunched headbut, Electricity>everything (except c.HK, c.HP)
-Beat the sumo splash with focus attack.
-The HP can beat the jumpins.
-Watch for the Ex headbuts, they have invincibility.
Thats all for you. :D Sorry if you know those already.
This is my theory about Super. There are going to be at least 6 characters who are going to be the best. I think those characters are (not in any order) Ryu, Chun Li, Sagat, Akuma, Dudley, and Seth. When you get past those 6, it gets messy. I think we're going to get like 20 characters who are so close together, someone could come up with the most accurate tier list for this game, and still not get it right. Then the last 10 or so well be ether good, but lack something that puts them over the top, or just flat out bad.
With what this guy said about Super, it looks like that theory might be right. It sounds really good and I can't wait for the 27th.
@syliander
Dude, blanka is all tricks. All those mixs ups u speak off all rely on the other guy not knowing the match up. He doesnt have tools, his normals SUCK, dont try to compare them with honda. THe only normals he has that are decent is st strong and st rh, THATS IT. The low forward doesnt have alot of range and all the other normals are super slow and really punishable(ie ryu can super blanka after a blocked low fierce). Short ball to anything stops working on people with a brain and even if it works it wont net u enough dmg to win. ANd the hop can be stoped by simply mashing low shorts or jabs. And like i said before almost every can hit the ball on blanka. I wasnt commenting on the matchup, i was commenting on how the characters stack up versus the rest of the cast. Honda is a better character, hes just slower. Once u deal with his speed hes fine.
Im glad blanka didnt get nerfed, could've made some of his links easier, but oh well. UNLIKE the new Zangnerf - my other character
@ chickenwing
It seems like your not good enough to play blanka and your taking it out on e.honda so just go play ryu.
Blanka has a crazy amount of tricks and spam-ability ,INSANE CONTROL ON HIS ROLLS evasion moves and a easy set up to cross up with ultra which also dose great chip damage so if your a simple minded predictable player then i feel sorry for you.
You talk and talk but SYLIANDER is right ,blanka has lots of viable tools and a high ability to control the space in the game .
TIER LISTINGS ,BKANKA 127 ,E.HONDA 117
NUFF SAID.
Fei Long:
Pretty much the same. Chicken Wing (Flying Kick) has less priority, startup invulnerability and might be punishable. Because of the changes to the game he might fare better.
What the hell is that^ supposed to mean? none of that makes sense....
@mandingo
LOL as soon as u said spam-ability u just proved u dont know wtf ur talkin about. Easy ultra cross up? LOL its a 50/50 at best and if it doesnt hit IT ISNT SAFE, u can ultra it back right away, chip dmg is the only thing it really does. And insane control over rolls? Its slow as hell and punch him out of it is easy, plus since the ball is so punishable its a dead give away that short ball to non sense is coming and most players with a brain can beat that.
And u want to bring up tiers ? LOL out of his 5/5s all of them can punish the ball on block with akuma,rose and chun geting a free ultra on blocked ball. And then theres seth and dhalsim that can ALWAYS hit the ball regardless if u hit him, that means MOST OF THE TIME U CANT BALL. ANd out of the 6s some of them make no sense. Cammy has better pokes and can hit the ball on block all day with cannon drill and gen and ultra the thing on block. ANd thats just at a glance of the list. I been playing blanka since launch, i know the tricks, i know how to use his pokes cross up ultra etc. But the only reason hes where he is in the tiers is because people like u suck and dont know how to fight him.
Theres a real reason why he isnt used at tournaments and when u do see him at tournaments they dont do nothing but turtle. Those guys know how to play and aint gonna fall for stupidity like short ball throw, cross up ball, hop ultra, hop throw, st jab xx hop whatever, rainbow ball cross up, hop eletric and the other corner tricks.
ANd like i said before, this has nothing to do with the blanka honda match up so ur sugesstion to use ryu just confirms that u dont know how to freakin read. It was just a comparsion between hondas head butt and blankas ball and how it would break blanka if they made safer since hondas headbutt is in fact alot safer then the ball.
@#68 tbh I disagree Sagat will still be top 5.ya his hp and overall dmg got nerfed,but he STILL has a tiger knee that will beat out most moves,and basically the fastest projectiles with the quickest recovery time so he can still space out oppenents.all you'll see is a few more 5-5 matchups and MAYBE,MAYBE one 6-4 matchup which will still have him at the top.I see the top 5 being (not in this order)
1.Sagat
2.Dudley (he can combo 2 dps w/o using meter and can combo that into an ultra on top of that)
3.Akuma
4.Ryu
5.Boxer
I think it's best to take all these impressions with a "grain of salt" until we, the general public gamers actually get to try it out for ourselves; and get to play the game in the online realm and actual tournament plays. Until then, I guess we'll just have to take the word of these so called "pros?".
@ Chickenwings
Forget the blanka noobs. The first thing I'm gonna test with Blanka when I get my hands on ssf4 are:
-Whether Sagat can kara-uppercut a hori/vert ball on-hit.
-Whether Rufus, Dhalsim, Boxer, Dictator can punish hori/vert ball on-hit.
-Whether Zangief can punish vert ball on-hit.
If the answer is yes to all of them, then it's time to retire Blanka and just tier-whore. There's no point settling for mid-tier.
What do bonus rounds have to do with "noobs?" These are returning from nearly twenty years ago...anyone who recognizes them is hardly a "noob."
A lot of these comments were silly. I also don't really believe in all the dismissing of Adon that's going on. It may take time to find his strengths, but I am not ready to suggest there are none.
@ 87
I like the way you think...tier whoring usually results in a worse overall experience of a game. If everyone did it, the game wouldn't be fun at all. If you're good with a character, just keep learning...and learning...and learning...until you develop a new strategy to an unwanted situation.
Tier listings themselves don't mean anything (well, most of the time).
It's all about the individual matchups - and even those are kinda lame since one character might have to work a lot harder/play a lot better than the other character.
I mean, sure, they both have the tools for an even chance at winning, but one character's tools might be a LOT harder to implement as well as the other character's.
For example, ALL of Guile's links are 1-framers (at least the main ones, although I think all of them are full stop). He still has the tools to win, but it's obvious that you're going to screw them up more often than a 2-3 frame link.
Furthermore, nobody will ever be of equal skill - it's way too freaking vague.
Finally, I see pros missing links all the time - so don't give me the "pros never miss links though so it's irrelevent" BS.
Either way, game's looking deliciously balanced at the moment. Although we don't know for sure until around 6 months or so down the line...
blanka is awesome so tricky and so many options me likey
@ 98 lol yea doesnt really make sense. But you are missing the part when he says 'because of the changes to the game he might fare better'. they might be saying that maybe his damage output is the same but everyone else's might hav gone down or maybe because the game is less defensive so fei long has a better chance in winning?
i dunno, or these guys are on crack lol
@ 99
I think they're saying that his troublesome matchups got nerfed so he stands a better chance.
Also, it's highly possible that they didn't nerf his damage output...
"Some people are saying Dudley is god tier and other people are saying Dudley is crap. But we're the definitive opinion though and we're saying Dudley is awesome."
What total garbage. As much as I respect these opinions, they are still just that... opinions. It's still WAY too early to know what SSF4 is going to be like.
When vanilla fist dropped, EVERYONE thought all the new characters sucked ass and only changed their minds after months of playing them. I have a feeling the opposite is true for Super. Everyone only thinks that the 3S characters are amazing because they've played them before, but once people learn the matchups, they won't be nearly as sensational.
It's all going to be one big crap-shoot for months. Everyone just calm down and take comfort in the fact that the balance is obviously fantastic.
chickenwings #81
"Theres a real reason why he isnt used at tournaments and when u do see him at tournaments they dont do nothing but turtle"
Yeah, but it's not like u see many Hondas winning the tournaments either!!
Personally I agree with many things that u said in #81 (overall very good arguments), but we didn't talked whether blanka is/isn't one of the best characters, but how he compares with E.Honda. And I repeat: Honda had more troubles with projectiles, so they improved his headbutt (NOT because it was worse than blankas roll...)
And before u keep complaining find that post that specifically lists changes for ssf4. There's something about blankas rolls too..
so.....they did nerf to zangief pokes ? Not that he get out poked by every char in the game...no no
god....make standing strong hit crouching targets....pff
@nelaelu
They adjusted the ranges so hes even more reliant on tricks. THats not gonna help him at all, he needed improvement in his normals and for the ball to be alittle safer. he got the forward hop adjustment, that could honestly be big but its not gonna mean anything if i cant mix it in with the ball or if characters can still hit me back after i combod into the ball.
Mean while some of what honda needed he got. what he really needed is ex headbutt to have armor like balrogs punchs, ex ochio to have invic frames and maybe give him the short jump he had from turbo(that would help him alot versus fireballs). And honda doesnt win any tournaments but atleast he gets some type of representation(mike ross) nobody really uses blanka. I use honda on the side(i honestly use all of the chargers) and i hate his speed but when u get in a get the ochio mix ups going honda is really monsterous. With his few adjustments i can see him being mid tier(invic on jab headbutt will be a huge help) he will must likely hover around mid tier. And honestly i can see him giving dudley and guy a tough time and he might beat juri so that will assure solid placement, but as it stands now cody can ultra the ball on block and im sure all the over new characters besides deejay and t hawk will be able to punish it as will, so blanka will drop like a rock which really shouldnt happen if he just got a hand ful of adjustments.
@ 110
Because you can now blow people out of the sky without them having the possibility of touching you.
I like playing Blanka because I used to play him when I was young in SF2. I just wish Blankas roll was not so sluggish in SF4. Now when the opponent sees you start your roll, they go to the fridge, make a sandwich, come back, eat the sandwich,......do some other stuff..... block or jab or whatever they want to do.
However, I'm still stoked for SSF4 and I will still play blanka.
Blanka4Life!!!
what about Abel his wheel kick is punishable on contact offline and online if I hit anyone with it they can recover in time to counter-attack???
"You can now hear all the remixed classic themes but Capcom went about it in a half assed way. You you have to actually change icon and your title in order to hear the themes. Apparently there's no actual option to hear them. Correction: You use the default icons to enable the classic themes."
I'm confused by this statement. Icons=music? So if I wish to listen to T.Hawk's music I'd have to set a T.Hawk icon? Would doing this replace every stage song? Am I the only one confused by that statement? Can't wait for the game to be released to know exactly what's going on.
Bonus rounds for newbs? Nein. Bonus rounds were invented to reward players for beating a couple of characters in arcade mode. But it's also a way to cool your head a little by having fun then stress out about beating the game. For example, max difficulty on 3rd strike arcade is somewhat challenging for those who hardly play 3rd strike (like me) but I'm always having fun parrying all the basketballs with sean and since I'm a little more calm about trying to get my quarters worth, it's actually a productive thing.
If Dan is no longer the worst character, who is?
@#119
Adon seems pretty weak. We'll see if Gen was nerfed as bad as is feared. Overall though the game seems very well balanced. No consensus #1 or #35 character has to be a good thing.
Can't wait to use the new & improved Vega. Although it's a shame not to get to use his new Ultra, Bloody High Claw is too good to drop. Can punish fireball characters or persistent focus attack users from across the screen, and now can punish high pressure jump-in characters.
LESS THAN 4 WEEKS TO GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
doesnt seem like its gona be a very balanced game based on this info. geif still gona suck vs seth and blanka.. seems like the new characters gona dominate the old sf4 characters.
chickenwings #109
Unfortunately I can't answer your concerns, cause (like most of us here) I haven't played ssf4 yet... I'm pretty sure though that Capcom did many tweaks in all of the characters (like they did between alphas etc.) and you will have to see them yourself.
And if your Blanka isn't as good as you hoped then I'm sorry. Not everyone can be a top tier though... and not all moves can be great. If you like the character, stick with it though! It's sad how some people abandon characters they love only because they aren't ranked high.
Cheers!!
for those of you wondering who these guys exactly are and if they are any good at the game or not, well i found some videos of them on youtube playing ssfiv. so you can judge for yourself.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BLvNV...
from that video just follow the links on the sides to see other vids of them
i have to say that s kill is probably correct
Sonic hurricane sucks because it sucks compared to other peoples ultra. especially compared to the best ultra (being itself now prolly the best ultra for guile) of other characters.
it only seems good when compared to sonic explosion
its crazy though something that "sucks" is actually an improvement for guile. i guess its an upgrade from total atrocious crap (flash explosion).
i just want his 3-7's to go away. tier ranking, not much to hope for but i dont care about tier ranks that much.
wish they gave a lil more info on rose. wow sagat got hit hard by the nerf bat lol. more like he fell 4m the nerf tree & hit every branch on the way down lol. ryu got hit by the nerf brass knuckles. the days of scrubby sagat players is comin to an end to make way for the REAL sagat mainers. i was hopin for a bit more info on gouken but i guess thats good for now. yes it does lool like the additional characters will dominate most (if not many) matches. basically the nerf went to d top tiers left the mid & bottom more or less unchanged, & d newbies were not taken in2 consideration when balancing the old ones. lol ibiki might be d next akuma. dudley will smash his way to d top. this should be very interesting. t hawk's gonna smash gief real bad lol. peace :)
im just glad we getting a awesome fighter that we will be played for years
lol even dan is better than adon. Why did people say he was gonna be high tier? He hasn't been in any game he has only been mid/low. He's good but due to what he can do he will always come up short. It's funny because S Kill said since January 'No free wins for adon'
Funny how everyone talking about the new 5 top gonna be bla bla and bla... AND FORGETTING VIPER!
I believe Viper gonna go up there, with her increased hit points and faster speed/focus. and her bad match ups against Sagat/Rufus/Gief is almost gone. She's gonna be Top Tier.
Probably the reason no one mentioned Viper coz she's one of if not the most, hardest characters to master.
Though, I think something about Boxer should be done. I used to main Boxer but switched to Viper, Currently I got 1600 online games with boxer and 3000 games with Viper (excluding offline) with over 72% win rate. But even with this, I'd have a hard time playing an Average+ Boxer against my Viper.
Glad to hear my Goukens the same. Also glad to gear his 2nd ultras better, i was worried he was gonna get a crappy counter Ultra as it would make sense for him to have one.
Looking forward to the game. Capcoms done well to promote it.
@SedoSan yes Viper is a fairly complex character to use. then again so is gouken. to use him u need pretty good instincts & accurate predictions skills. u need knowledge of ALL characters & their moves/strategies to effectively counter'em. like gouken, viper wont be top tier. that honor belongs to...well we'll see once the game comes out. i do like vipers techniques & fakes. then again nothin says 'EPIC FAIL' like gettin reversed by gouken lol. peace :)
@ 99 hmm... thats what i was kinda thinking but still, its hard to make sense out of it.
so they made fei longs chicken wing kick more WEAKER? wow, its gunna be hard for him against projectile opponents even more.
All the fei long players start off strong until their opponent starts to know that they are getting their a$$ kicked, so they just spam fireballs when safe at the right manner.
So i guess its a game of patients for fei long more than ever when against a projectile opponent that knows what they are doing.
almost like a game of mario jumping over sharkhead cannons and bowsers fireballs, get to impatient and ull end up dying ahh! But get to patient and ull end up showing a weak game by winning by the timer runnig out on the clock?
mid-tier, low-tier, high-tier...i guess if u wanna win some money in those EVO tourneys then go for a high-tier character. i use a character based on my personal preferance. in SF2 (CE) (T) i used ken, blanka, vega. in SSF2 (T) in addition i used ryu, cammy & bison. point is i dont pick a character based on tiers i just pick'em cuz they're fun. i main gouken. he's fun to use. yes he's mid-tier yet it doesnt matter. its just a (fun) game. i believe tier lists (or predicting tier lists) are a waste of time. just go with ur instincts & pick a character best suited to ur style. thats kinda hard to think bout when ur playin in a tourney i suppose (especially if money's involved) oh well glad i dont have that problem peace :)
Wow good stuff on El Fuerte, might use him now. Also Guy is sounding very sweet.
Yes! My wish for Fuerte has been granted.