10:32 p.m.
Japanese SF4 developers talk about balance, characters
Jigsaw translated the most recent post on the Japanese Street Fighter 4 blog. The developers discuss the balance of the original title along with the new characters and a whole lot more.
This is a good and VERY long read, but since this is a translation, note that some of the information may be a bit hazy.
Balancing the characters in Street Fighter 4
Tsukamoto:
Personally, I think we did pretty well. There have been characters who were strong at one time, but as time goes on, people figure out new strategies and the balance shifts like a see-saw.
Taguchi (Technical director):
I agree.
Okada (Battle planner/direction):
Well, I said this when we were making the game too, but can't it be OK to have 1:9 matchups in the game? If a game has nothing but 5:5 or 6:4 matchups, you could definitely say it's a well-balanced game, but in the end it's like "everyone just plays like Ryu, huh." With that in mind, from the beginning we set out to make balance a priority. "This is a really big disadvantage for this character," or, "this makes that character too good," you know. I think the character balance in SF4 is pretty good, and I suppose that's just in line with the goals we set up when we started developing the game.
As for the see-saw thing, the players who experiment and have fun with the game are definitely going to find a lot of things that us developers never even thought of. It's just always like that when creating fighting games. The developers might think of a hundred clever little things to surprise players, but the joke's on us when about 10 of those things work as we had planned, and the rest end up being a big surprise to us!
Tsukamoto:
That's why you should never give up, right? When making a fighting game, it really feels like you're creating it together with all the players.
The systems of Street Fighter 4
Kamei (Art director):
It was really important to make the focus attacks visually distinctive. Since it was a new system, we really had to make sure all the players understood what was going on. Originally, when charging the focus attacks the characters would just have a normal glowing effect, but once we had decided on the concept of the ink effects tying together the look of the whole game, it was clear how the focus attacks were going to look. Everyone thought of ways to do it, and in the end I think we came up with a fluid look worthy of the next-gen systems.
Okada:
When development first started, of course SF3 was on everyone's mind, so there was always a sense of wanting to exceed what was done in 3, or having to do it, even. But when going back to older games in the series for research, we found ourselves enamoured with SF2 Turbo. We like SF3's Parry system as well, but the simplicity of SF2 Turbo had its own appeal. The beauty of this simplicity is what led to Mr. Ono's "back to the roots" design philosophy.
What sets Street Fighter 4 apart from Street Fighter 3 and Street Fighter 2 Turbo?
Okada:
This isn't meant as a criticism against SF3, but fighting games do evolve and inevitably they will focus more on a smaller core audience and leave a lot of people feeling left out. In other words, turning into a niche genre. So to do something about that, this time we decided to make a game so that even people who only knows or remembers a little bit about how to play can learn to use a character and enjoy the game. So in fact, the focus attacks was never really seen as a main system in SF4, but rather something that adds a new accent to familiar gameplay. If you look at how the game is being played today, focus attacks are used in many more ways than we had ever expected, and that kind of development is all thanks to the players.
In addition to that, SF4 has those Ultras
Kamei:
The highlight of the Ultras is the camera movement. We're showing the characters from many never-before-seen angles.
The gameplay of SF4 takes place entirely on a two-dimensional plane, but of course the game is actually built in 3D. We wanted to make use of that fact somehow. With the Ultra Combos, I think the development team gave the designers a lot of room for expressive visuals.
OK, so let's talk about the new characters in Street Fighter 4
Tsukamoto:
Well, this was really difficult. In the beginning, the staff would come up with loads of ideas, but they were no good.
Okada:
With Abel, we had an idea of "soft overcoming hard" that we wanted to realize, and originally that was in the shape of a small judo character who could be mistaken for a girl. It eventually evolved into a tough military guy, though (laughs).
As for Viper, we started talking about a, "female character that will appeal to American fans," which turned into the concept of a "strong female" upon which she was created. So arguably, Viper was the most successful character, wouldn't you say?
I like El Fuerte. Once we started to see them in motion, he was the character who turned out the best.
Okada:
At first, he was not going to be included, as there were already quite a few Lucha Libre characters in other fighting games. But since there has never been one in Street Fighter, we wanted to see what he could be like, so he stayed. Ikeno liked the idea, too.
Taguchi:
El Fuerte is well-liked among the programmers as well, actually.
Okada:
Rufus was a character we didn't have a complete plan for at the beginning, but we had the idea of a "breakung-fu user". Breakung-fu is a martial art that blends breakdance with kung-fu, which was kind of a fad in the US at the time. Ikeno liked the idea and said, "Sounds cool, I'll see where I can take it." Originally, he was a really smooth-looking character.
Tsukamoto:
At a meeting, Kamei was talking about how he would like a fat character, and Ikeno agreed. "Oh, a fat guy, that's great," he said. And that's kind of how we decided on what direction to go with Rufus.
The other characters in Street Fighter 4
Kamei:
It was pretty difficult to preserve the feeling of the previous games.
Okada:
Well, these characters are just so iconic. We really had to make sure that we stayed true to the characters and even set up rules for ourselves about things we weren't allowed to change.
Dhalsim was especially difficult. Of course, I'm talking about his stretching. There's also stuff like the bone in Honda's topknot. We actually built it in 3D and everything.
Additional characters in the home version
Kamei:
I don't have any particular stories about hardships or elation, but the Alpha characters have kind of a different feel from the SF2 characters, so it took more work to make them fit in well. We had to be attentive to the fact that Alpha takes place years before Street Fighter 2, so characters like Gen and Dan had to look a little older.
Okada:
There was kind of a gap between the arcade version and the home version, and there was a lot to think about during that time. Rose's projectile reflection, Gen's style switching, things like that. The arcade game had been designed to be a complete product, so adding new systems to the equation was kind of a headache. When deciding what moves to give the characters, we always had to think, "How is this move going to work in Street Fighter 4?"
Taguchi:
Rose's reflect move was a lot of work, since we had to add mechanics to the game for that move specifically. We had originally created the game without ever thinking that we'd have to add Rose after the fact. But when doing stuff like playing "Rose Ball" now, I can really appreciate the work that the programmers put in.
Tsukamoto:
Well for me, when Sakura was added to the game, I was thinking, um, there's the Flower Kick, right? Her bloomers have to be visible when she does that move, but at first her skirt didn't flare up like it should. In Alpha, I think the name really fits the move, cause you're kinda fixated on it, thinking, "Open up more, just a little more!"... Or is that just me?
Comments on the character models, animations, effects, etc.?
Kamei:
Our visuals are a bit different from most games coming out these days, but I think this is the right way to go for Street Fighter. Still, it took a while for us to find the perfect look for SF4. Ryu is the basis for every other character, and we went through more than 10 different approaches before we were able to settle on a final design for him. His physique, his face, every part of his appearance was rebuilt from scratch several times. There were actually a fair amount of fights among the staff over how he should look. With the effects, we wanted to maintain the feeling of the previous games, while also infusing it with something new, so we created special tools for that purpose.
I heard from the effects designers that the graphics for Ryu's and Ken's fireballs are actually a little different. Gouken's is different, too. They're all the same fireball, but the effects are all different for each character, in color as well as shape. The characters are all practitioners of the same style, but they train differently, so it felt like their techniques should reflect that. I really loved that idea too, so I'd go "more, more!", being a complete pain.
Kamei:
You can see that Ryu's fireball is a little bit larger.
Transforming the two-dimensional pictures into 3D was difficult indeed. You really had to think about how a lot of things would work and move in real life. The fireballs may have gone through quite a few changes, but as far as the portrayal of the characters goes, some things were set in stone from day one. Looking at SF4 now, the designers really brought the world of these characters to life.
How was the Arcade Request system conceived?
Taguchi:
To begin with, Mr. Ono gave us instructions to create, "a feeling of being in the arcade while playing at home," and I felt really nervous about being assigned such a difficult mission. I was unsure about how to replicate the feeling of an arcade at home. Earlier, I had thought about the tension you experience the second you step into an arcade. Even if you decide to play a game you know you can beat with no problem, a stranger might challenge you with no warning, and the tension is suddenly through the roof! I thought that somehow trying to replicate that sensation was what we should aim for.
Tsukamoto:
At that time, I was asked, "What if players could be challenged by random opponents while playing at home as usual?" and I thought, that's great! Let's do it! Will we be able to do it?
Taguchi:
This kind of feature hasn't really been done in a console game before, people thought it sounded like an interesting idea. When I consulted the people in charge of the online component, they told me that debugging for this kind of feature would be a big chore. For example, in an arcade, the amount of potential opponents at any given time will always be limited to the people actually in the arcade. But when creating an online system with the same principle, you have to take into account that a player can be challenged by any number of people throughout the whole world.
Okada:
Growing up with arcades, we wanted to bring that intense arcade feeling to the home. So in my mind, SF4's online begins and ends with the Arcade Request feature.
Taguchi:
Of course, reducing lag in the online modes was another major concern, and the programmers went through a lot of trial and error to tweak that aspect as well.
Okada:
Fighting games mean a life of fighting, eh?
What's this talk about the CPU characters being too strong?
Okada:
I heard people were unhappy with this aspect in the arcade version. But we made the game this way because we wanted a lot of people to be able to enjoy it, including new players. Still, there were people saying "The CPU in Street Fighter should be tougher than this", so in the home version we made the game a little harder, particularly the end boss. Naturally, we started hearing that the game is "too hard"...
Taguchi:
Still, I think making the single player game more difficult worked really well with the Arcade Request system. Being saved by a opponent's challenge just as you're on the brink of losing against a tough computer oponent is pretty exciting, don't you think? I really hope all the players out there can enjoy the tension of fighting the CPU on "Hardest" while waiting for a challenge via Arcade Request.
About Super Street Fighter 4
What did you feel when you heard that there would be a sequel?
Kamei:
I felt happy, being able to continue to work on the game.
Tsukamoto:
After SF4's positive reception, Mr. Ono started talking about the possibility of making a followup. "There are still characters we weren't able to include," and such. But there's definitely a feeling of having to exceed what we did with the last game, and what's a good way to do that? So there were a few worries too.
Okada:
I felt kinda 50/50, hopeful and skeptical. I was happy to be able to do all those things we didn't have time for last time around, but at the same time SF4 was received rather well which means expectations are going to be high. So even though I was happy, I was feeling also a little anxious. Actually, I still do.
Taguchi:
I've always thought of fighting games as a one-on-one thing. But watching tournaments like the National tournament and SBO made me feel that the community is a big part of the experience as well. People getting together via SF4, players brushing up on their skills by watching others play... it felt like we forgot about those things when making the last game, so now it's like, "Let's do it!"
Kamei:
Dee Jay and T. Hawk weren't in SF4, right? Without them, the Super Street Fighter 2 roster wasn't complete, so that was a huge regret. So I'm really happy we're finally able to include them, not to mention more brand new characters.
Okada:
I agree with Kamei, that's definitely one goal, but I also want the fans to feel, "I want you to make changes to my character!" well, in a good way of course. With that in mind, I want to tweak the characters as much as reasonably possible.
Tsukamoto:
In any event, there are hopes as well as uncertainty, but there's no hesitation! We're putting our heart and soul into creating a fun game. From now on, I think we'll be able keep on providing information, so everyone please look forward to it!!
Posted by Big Butt Bob on October 13, 2009 at 5:32 p.m. #1
Computers in hardest is retardedly easy...
Posted by Corn on October 13, 2009 at 5:42 p.m. #2
It looks like the Street Fighter staff have good taste in characters if El Fuerte is their favorite.
Posted by Trauma Radio on October 13, 2009 at 5:47 p.m. #3
@#1 for the PS3 and the PC version I don't have a problem set to hardest in vs. mode (Like i got use to some of the characters that kept doing the same thing lol)
@#2 well we all have our own taste when we played the game ever since it came out. For me Abel came to my mind and probably for the rest they had others in their mind as well
Still El Fuerte is fun to use
Posted by Machineking1313 on October 13, 2009 at 5:56 p.m. #4
I know people whine and bitch about the balance in this game, like Darksydephil whines about everything, but this SFIV is the most balanced game in the SF series. I dont care what you dumb kids say about Sagat/Balrog/Ryu/Rufus, the game is much better balanced than 3S and Super Turbo.
Posted by yflow on October 13, 2009 at 5:59 p.m. #5
I wonder how much of Rufus's moveset is left over from that breakdance character he was originally planned to be. It seems like it all makes sense once you consider the way Messiah Kick and Galactic Tornado look. Kind of like dance moves, right?
Posted by nuhu on October 13, 2009 at 6 p.m. #6
well some how i want to believe its easy! Hey but why didnt they just reveal another character, it wouldnt hurt, would it! Lagos, Nigeria.
Posted by wtf on October 13, 2009 at 6:03 p.m. #7
"can't it be OK to have 1:9 matchups in the game? If a game has nothing but 5:5 or 6:4 matchups, you could definitely say it's a well-balanced game, but in the end it's like "everyone just plays like Ryu, huh." "
Is that a mistranslation? They set out intending to balance the game by making some characters suck and some too powerful?!
"Hey, Sagat is a tiny bit too powerful, shall we tweak that?"
"Nah let's just make Guile suck to balance him out."
Posted by nighanhiga on October 13, 2009 at 6:06 p.m. #8
Machineking1313 i feel you
Posted by ftw on October 13, 2009 at 6:11 p.m. #9
@ #7 they are only saying that they left things like they were. Due to the fact that if 5:5 and 6:4 match ups were the only thing they have, that the game would be the same thing over, and over, and over.
Posted by Nyoronoru on October 13, 2009 at 6:19 p.m. #10
I wonder what they said about the arcade release...
Posted by Firegod on October 13, 2009 at 6:20 p.m. #11
"Okada (Battle planner/direction):
Well, I said this when we were making the game too, but can't it be OK to have 1:9 matchups in the game? If a game has nothing but 5:5 or 6:4 matchups, you could definitely say it's a well-balanced game, but in the end it's like "everyone just plays like Ryu, huh." With that in mind, from the beginning we set out to make balance a priority. "This is a really big disadvantage for this character," or, "this makes that character too good," you know. I think the character balance in SF4 is pretty good, and I suppose that's just in line with the goals we set up when we started developing the game."
Wait wait, am i reading this right?
So what he is saying is that if the game was balance or "4/5 or 5/5" then everyone would be picking one character....where as if the game is unbalanced than everyone will be picking diffrent characters..........
I just cant wrap my mind around this one.......I guess maybe its american thinking, but when i look at all the tournemnts its a 90% chance that people will pick the top 3-5 characters because they are good.........
I would think if the game was MORE balanced, then everyone would be picking other characters because it wouldnt matter....
this doesnt make sence to me.......
are they trying to say that they purposely left some characters stronger so "all the characters" can be used?
then at the same time they say
"Taguchi:
I've always thought of fighting games as a one-on-one thing. But watching tournaments like the National tournament and SBO made me feel that the community is a big part of the experience as well. People getting together via SF4, players brushing up on their skills by watching others play... it felt like we forgot about those things when making the last game, so now it's like, "Let's do it!"
So at the same time, they are saying they didnt think about sf4 being taken seriously or hardcore....
I am straight cofused here.......
Posted by ZAP on October 13, 2009 at 6:22 p.m. #12
These dudes f**king rule...
Never seen so much commitment to the fans for a computer game ever!!
Always loved capcom, but their constant interaction with the fans via the internet has made me love them even more.
I have a semi boner. ZAP!
MAKATO/IBUKI/DUDELY/GOUKENS DAUGHTER!!! (please)
many thanks.
Posted by #8 on October 13, 2009 at 6:25 p.m. #13
"in the end it's like "everyone just plays like Ryu"
This is a pretty dumb statement, there's a great amount of 5:5 matchups between characters that are totally different, which is great and the idea around which the whole game should be built IMO.
Posted by Final Fight on October 13, 2009 at 6:41 p.m. #14
Final Fight Characters please.
Cody, Guy, Rolento, Sodom. especially cody and guy though. please.
Posted by ARJ08 on October 13, 2009 at 6:42 p.m. #15
They didn't talk much about balance...that's all I care about. I don't want another 3s where only like 4 players are competitive in high level play.
Posted by Anonymous on October 13, 2009 at 6:44 p.m. #16
Buff vega.
Nerf sagat.
Enough said.
Posted by Alex on October 13, 2009 at 6:47 p.m. #17
Game needs more Alex
Posted by Firegod on October 13, 2009 at 6:58 p.m. #18
@ARJ08
thats what ive been screaming since day 1
Posted by Capcom doing things right on October 13, 2009 at 7:11 p.m. #19
So now the fanboys get there way not true Street Fighter fans the will make Sagat weak and when SSF4 comes out they will Bi**H about another character.
You people who just picked up Street Fighter in 2004 when it can to Xbox live NEED TO LEAVE AND NEVER COME BACK. All you new commer's do it Bi**h about Sagat and make your self look Foolish at Tournaments. Please do us a favor just go away.
I'm a true Street Fighter Fan been playing sense March 1991. I have owned every CapCom/Street Fighter Title that was released in North America, been doing Tournaments sense 1994. And I never Bi**hed about a character I just practiced and learned the match up. It's a shame how the fighting game community has gone down hill. Now instead of going to a Tournament and trying to win it you all just bi**h about what character your opponents pick's.
If you new commer's don't clean up your play you all are going to run the fighting game sense into the ground. Just practice and I promise you there will be no match up you won't be able to win.
Posted by Balloon on October 13, 2009 at 7:14 p.m. #20
Tsukamoto:
"In Alpha, I think the name really fits the move, cause you're kinda fixated on it, thinking, 'Open up more, just a little more!'... Or is that just me?"
LOL @ Tsukamoto. Seriously lol.
Posted by Zelseus on October 13, 2009 at 7:28 p.m. #21
@#19
Those aren't newcomers. They're scrubs. It just so happens that SF is gaining more influence and a lot more scrubs are pooring in.
Posted by Capcom doing things right on October 13, 2009 at 7:40 p.m. #22
@#21 what ever they are they need to go away and soon
Posted by saiferoth on October 13, 2009 at 7:45 p.m. #23
@#21 yep. its pretty damn annoying. im not old-school (SF2 Turbo for SNES) but i know what you guys are talking about. I mean, in the end, Capcom is gonna do the right thing that makes the most reasonable sense and is probably gonna shell out an awesome upgrade to SF4.
Also, I love shotokans and I main sagat often but i dont really complain about cammy or something. The game is balanced so just stop whining and get better. Jesus.
PSN: saiferoth
Posted by Chickenwings on October 13, 2009 at 7:52 p.m. #24
I hope they play on xboxlive and see how theres nothing but turtling,runaways and dp mashers. The fact that sf4 promotes turtling is the reason i hate the game. But then i go to hdr and nobodys freaking playing so im stuck siting there for 99 seconds chaseing people.
PLEASE CAPCOM, give agressive players a break. I have not once been dp'd out of a combo in hdr but in sf4 i have been mashed out of blankas standing forward(hes double knees which is automaticly a 2 hit move). Then with the dmg scaling its not even worth going for combos(2 standing rh houses with bison is almost the same as a 5/6 hit combo). With auto block, auto against,trip guard,crouch teching,short cuts and bigger levels its just easier to defend. Ono himself said they read forums etc, i hope people start speaking up, i know im not alone on this.
Posted by @chickwings on October 13, 2009 at 8:02 p.m. #25
wahhh wahhhhh
b**ch more, your one of those dudes that wants to be able to rely in 24 hit combos to win matches over and over
go play mvc2 is your combo crazy
wahhh blanka can't ...wahh , Ono better..wahhh
WAH
jeez
Posted by yes4me on October 13, 2009 at 8:09 p.m. #26
While Capcom said the game is fairly balanced, it is not the opinion of everyone at Capcom for good reasons: first of all, I doubt they will ever say anything really negative about SF4 including balancing (these guys are working for Capcom and have to be bias to keep their job). Second they are rebalancing a little SF4 in SSF4 simply because SF4 is not well balanced to provide a tiny bit more varieties in picks. That's why Sagat is the number one character who win more tournament than other characters.
BTW I don't think SF4 is a crappy game. I like it very much. As a matter of fact I only play one game since it came out on PC, and it is SF4. But some matchups are really bad.
Posted by chickenwings on October 13, 2009 at 8:10 p.m. #27
I never said that. But ur the guy thats wants to rely on mashing df,db,df PPP all day. God forbid u actually have to do a dragon punch and actually need TIMING. We didnt need this in any other street fighter game, why did they need to but it in for the little kids.
Posted by @#26 on October 13, 2009 at 8:20 p.m. #28
Sagat dose not win Tournament's Sagat has not a Tournament in America yet what are you talking about get out of here what you lies. and ONLINE TOURNAMENT'S DON'T COUNT ONLINE WINS = JACK
Posted by boo on October 13, 2009 at 8:34 p.m. #29
these guys are amazing... its kinda sad that they are trying so hard to satify such whiney and bitchy fans... you whiners are such trash....
Posted by Mueti on October 13, 2009 at 8:42 p.m. #30
What they meant by that 9:1 statement is just that it's mad hard to balance characters that play very differently in a way that there will be no match-ups that will totally be in favor of one character.
And I think they did an awesome job with that.
Posted by lolol on October 13, 2009 at 8:44 p.m. #31
BUFF VEGA FOR GOD SAKE!!!
Posted by Firegod on October 13, 2009 at 8:45 p.m. #32
@ capcom doing things right
I have been playing street fighter since back in the day of sf2 in arcades. I dont consider myself a pro, but i wouldnt say i suck eather just because i cant beat Jwong or Daigo.
I know that if you train hard you can beat just about anyone, and yea, i play a Ken (no, not one that mashes dragon punch all day but a ken that uses all of his tools) and yea i have beaten plenty of sagats/ryus/rufus/balrogs or any of the other top characters.
The reason why people like me want more balance, is because i can say that SF4 is one of the more balanced sf games, and it would be awsome if they rebalanced the game so that everyone has a fair tournement legal chance of winning.
Yes, the person playing means alittle more than the character used, however, the character you use still has a fair amount to do with how well you are going to do. There has to be a reason why most people use Ryu/rufus/sagat/balrogs and noone seems to use vega (claw) gen (cept yeb of course) Dan sakura and other characters. They are eaither to hard to use, or they just arent that good period. They need to be balanced more to make up for whatever it is that they lack.
And hell, all i really have to say is Third Strike. Yea, there are players that can beat Ken and Chun Li, but the best of the best use one of the 2 (or of course Yun). And why is that? Ill tell you this secret, it isnt because Sean is top teir, but they like Ken and Chung li more thats for sure....
Posted by JerseyFame on October 13, 2009 at 8:58 p.m. #33
If you guys at Capcom, the Art Directors and especially Battle Planners, think so in depth about how a character should play and what they should be based on, what is the criteria for what their abilities will be?
You guys have written Guile into your storyline and programmed him so beautifully simple in the past. You said yourselves, that you were in love with how simple and almost perfect Super Turbo was.
So why did you make Guile extremely complicated, difficult to use, and un fun...in the NEWER VERSION of the game????
You should have pushed the limits with HIS character design and looked for inspiration. He should be more like Jason Bourne instead you guys make him fight more like Mucguyver...ya know a normal man in a tournament with all these superhuman characters.
I wish you guys would have pushed the limits with Guiles design....die hard fans will play as him, and compete. Yet, they are miserable watching the millions of Ryu and Sagat players have so much fun while Guile players are frustrated and unhappy usually with the gameplay.
I challenge you guys to respond to this message.
Posted by Capcom doing things right on October 13, 2009 at 9:08 p.m. #34
@#32 I don't understand what you are saying the games is very balance and I'm just too old school the character dosen't make you, you make the character. I play Sakura all the time and when I play her I hear people say all the time that she is broken. These new kid's just want everything to be easy nobody want's to work and earn a win.
And it's not my fault these new commer's only play KEN & RYU all they do is watch Youtube all day and try to copy every player from Japan.
They just need to leave the Fighting game scene before the ruin it for us all. All they are going to do is every Street Fighter game is get on CapCom-Unity and make dumb thread's like this and that character is over powered..And the end result will be ONO will come running and start say yea this character is a little over powered and the FanBoys will keep getting there way and Street Fighter will be a game/series of NORTH AMERICA SAY'S THIS CHARACTER IS THE MOST HATED CHARACTER SO LET'S FIX IT AND NOT MAKE THESE FOOL'S LEARN HOW TO PLAY THE GAME AND JUST LET THEM WIN EASY. THEY WILL JUST KEEP LISITING TO THESE NEW COMMER'S AND SCREW ALL THE PEOPLE WHO DON'T CRY ABOUT THE GAME AND CHARACTER'S IN THE GAME.
Sooner or later if the keep lisiting to these fanboy's and not try fan's the will have a game/series that is decated to people who sit around on xbox live and just send each other messages about you suck you pick the character and CRY CRY CRY.
Posted by Firegod on October 13, 2009 at 9:15 p.m. #35
@ Capcom doing things right
Well i can feel you on that. I mean capcom did say
"Taguchi:
I've always thought of fighting games as a one-on-one thing. But watching tournaments like the National tournament and SBO made me feel that the community is a big part of the experience as well. People getting together via SF4, players brushing up on their skills by watching others play... it felt like we forgot about those things when making the last game, so now it's like, "Let's do it!"
So i can understand what you are saying. And yea, if people are complaining about any and everything then yea, that would suck. And if capcom isnt listning to the hardcore fans, then yea, that would suck to.
I understand more of what you are saying, you are talking about people who dont play the game well enough to see the hardcore flaws in the game. People who dont spend enough time learning true skill, or learning the machanics of the game. So i can respect that.
I thought you were refering to people who talk about unbalanced games PERIOD, even if they do know what they are talking about.
So yea, i can agree with you on that.
Posted by pooploser666 on October 13, 2009 at 9:27 p.m. #36
@19 i feel ya bro... true words from a true street fighter fan! practice you mother f'ers! you cant just pick up a guitar one day and expect to shred the krap out of it same goes for steet fighter. accept your loss learn from it and move the f on! enough said peace out mofos!
Posted by BlueLambency on October 13, 2009 at 9:35 p.m. #37
It's really silly to use the "work harder" argument when people talk about the game's imbalance. I do think that the game is balanced when it comes to move sets and movements, but the damage of some characters, characters besides Akuma and Seth not having 1000 health, Sagat's ridiculous recovery times are things that need to be fixed.
Any rational fan of fighting games would understand the reasoning behind trying to make all matchups 5:5. Matchups mean that players have EQUAL skill. Cleverness and the ability to outsmart the opponent isn't something that factors into a matchup.
So, the argument proposed by the people who tell everyone not to complain about imbalance is absolutely ridiculous. Let's use an example: Bruce Lee fighting a cloned Bruce Lee. One of them has a machine gun and one of them has no weapons. Other than that, they're equal. The machine gun wielding Bruce Lee would obviously defeat the other one. If the "play harder, scrubs" logic was applied to this situation, there would be no observed unfairness in the fight at all.
Posted by Capcom doing things right on October 13, 2009 at 9:51 p.m. #38
@#38 it would be very stupid for a fighting game to have all match up 5/5 no fun. I love fighting games I want to challange my self I want to go into a match up where is 7/3 for my opponent I love match up like that because it makes me a better player
Posted by Digital- on October 13, 2009 at 9:56 p.m. #39
"Okada (Battle planner/direction):
Well, I said this when we were making the game too, but can't it be OK to have 1:9 matchups in the game? If a game has nothing but 5:5 or 6:4 matchups, you could definitely say it's a well-balanced game, but in the end it's like "everyone just plays like Ryu, huh." With that in mind, from the beginning we set out to make balance a priority. "This is a really big disadvantage for this character," or, "this makes that character too good," you know. I think the character balance in SF4 is pretty good, and I suppose that's just in line with the goals we set up when we started developing the game."
=====
Ok so instead of everyone having similar odds IE: "everyone plays like Ryu" they rather just have everyone just PICK RYU and not touch any of the other characters because they cannot compare with him?
Just goes to show you that it's not only PC game developers that are stupid its also fighting game developers too!
Posted by Fightclub on October 13, 2009 at 10 p.m. #40
The bruce lee without a machine gun would buy a tank meaning he would start maining sagat. The only reason sagats in the US aren't winning is because they are not as good as their japanese counterparts. People use ryu because he is easy to use and has no disadvantages.That being said this is the most balanced "capcom" game and I applaud their efforts since they have come a long way now it's time to take it a step further and put the rest of the cast in equal terms with the Sagats, Akumas,RYUs, rogs and rufus.
Posted by so on October 13, 2009 at 10:11 p.m. #41
everyone who agrees with the game being well balanced either never play as vega, guile, fei long, sakura, elf, etc... or they play ryu, sagat, balrog, or zangief.
Posted by PSN=Xboxlive SERIOUSLY` on October 13, 2009 at 10:12 p.m. #42
The only fkn reason why ppl on xbox live have less lagg is because most ppl on PSN use wireless connections which suck.
Posted by Firegod on October 13, 2009 at 10:13 p.m. #43
@Bluelemency = I agree wholeheartedly
@Digital
I wouldnt go as far as to call them stupid, they did balance the game pretty well. But I do see and agree with most of your point. Most top 5 characters (usually top 3) are the ones being picked all day and all night because they are good.
And as I said before, I dont belive the character is EVERYTHING but its a whole lot.
Eather way it goes, this arugment will go on untill the end of time. I dont think that capcom WANTS to creat a really balanced game. from the statements above, they like the fact that some characters suck mainly because they arent looking at the hardcore scene but the little guys on XBL or PSN just like "capcom doing things right" said.
I just dont understand why you would want to waist time on a character that wont be good? Why even develop the characters rofl.
Posted by LOL at #1 on October 13, 2009 at 10:25 p.m. #44
Scrubbiest comment of our generation. I'm sure you cant even get to Gouken on even hard let alone hardest and beat him to get the trophy for doing so.
Posted by Digital- on October 13, 2009 at 10:26 p.m. #45
F*ck it, I'm gonna learn how to play Rufus instead of my main character. If you can't beat them, join them! Am I right Capcom?
I agree with you Firegod when you say "Why even develop the characters?". And I'll answer it for you, they don't wanna put in the man hours to make each character completely balanced, it would take too long and they wouldn't make the money back that they spend on the long man hours.
So they make 5 Solid characters and 20 filler characters and they slap a nice cover picture of Ryu and Ken buttsecksing eachother and call it Game of the Year.
Posted by Firegod on October 13, 2009 at 10:56 p.m. #46
@Digital-
ROFL
But yea, there is way to much technology to not have a game at least 85 or so percent balanced. I mean patch that S&%T.
Posted by Anon on October 13, 2009 at 11:03 p.m. #47
SF2Turbo - McLaren F1
SF3 3s - Bugatti Veyron
SF4 - BMW M5
They're all great games.
Turbo was a huge advancement in 2d games just like McLaren was for Super Cars.
3s was just a damn good game. Fast paced, lots of mind games.
Yea it has its problems, but so does every other game.
Street Fighter 4 is a good game. It works well, it's nicely balanced. It has mind games, but it's slow. A lot slower than SF3s.
It has got overly complex ideas that don't exactly work out properly all the time like weird invincibility frames and oddly shaped hitboxes.
Each game can be considered to be tailored for different individuals.
As for character balance, no fighting game will every be truly balanced unless every character is a carbon copy of each other. That's just the way it is.
But crying about how Sagat is broken and how Vega is crap is just scrub.
Learn your matchups.
Go play at some local tournaments.
Get some experience.
You don't hear top level players crying about tiers.
I mean JWong is basically a tier whore in Third Strike.
Does that mean he's a scrub? Of course not.
As for the guy who mentioned damage scaling,
Damage scaling in SF4 was done terribly.
If I land a 30 hit combo, I want you to feel it.
I just basically wrecked your face.
I just did something that is almost never done, and what does the game do to me? That epic combo becomes a measly 40pts of damage or so.
Especially since a 30 hit combo is something completely unexpected and obviously I did something VERY right.
Posted by chickenwings on October 13, 2009 at 11:49 p.m. #48
@anon
I feel one of the reasons it feels so slow is because of the pro turtle fighting system in sf4. The characters tbh are pretty quick. They all have dashs and normals are just as fast/a tiny bit slower then turbo. But again, with bigger levels, crouch teching etc it just slows down the game.
And YES combos should be worth it. Im not asking for turbo/hdr stuff(even though i would love it) where a good 5 hit combo can take half bar and/or dizzy(screw that i want it LOL) but again, if im burning bar and super canceling i should get the proper dmg. Its really painful to see my man bison, such an explosive hdr/turbo character do a 11 hit combo and only get about 300 dmg.
Posted by J on October 13, 2009 at 11:51 p.m. #49
I really hope they fix balance. Abel Blanka matchup is 1:9. Won't really matter since I will play DJ, but Debuffs and Buffs for the whole cast. Who care if every matchup is a 5:5 or a 6:4?
Posted by Darksydephil on October 13, 2009 at 11:55 p.m. #50
Yo! Its me! Its me! Its DEE ES PEE! DSP!!!
What up loyal fans???? Its your home boy DSP here. Yeah, so about this whole balance thing. They need to get Sagat down, the guy ruins the game besides the lag. Sagat is a bitch. If it was not for him, hardly anyone would be good at this game.
Hey, I just got started on my Uncharted 2 playthrough. It is one of my most highly requested playthroughs EVER!!! So do not miss it or you will be out of the youtube loop.
In case you have not seen it. Youtube has destroyed my page. The ass bitch beta server angrily destroyed all my hard work for my playlists because youtube has turned into a money crazed fascist bunch of asses. I am pissed off. Capcom and youtube need to quit stealing from us.
Capcom will never fix the online lag. They cannot do it. Online is for dumb people that need mental help. I am sick and tired of people making fun of me for losing to random people online. Its online you retards. It doesnt matter. Meet me in real life and I will kick your ass bitch.
Please send youtube letters so they can change my page back to the way it was. If you guys can send like 20,000 letters to them, they might do it.
I would also like to say I am honored that so many people are changing their youtube account names to Darksyde______. It is great to know that I have impacted you all in such a magical way.
I am also having a contest to see who can get me the best intro music for my hateful truth videos. Speaking of my hateful truth videos, I recently did one for Street Fighter 4, where I angrily talk about Sagat, shortcuts, online modes, and the theme song. It is a very funny video and all of my youtube supporters loved it and voted for me to be king of youtube.
If you are the lucky guy to win the contest, I do not know what the prize is right now, it could be like getting mentioned in one of my videos which would make you very popular with all your friends and may get you laid with a hot chick with very large breasts.
Also check out my alternate channel, THEKINGOFHATEHD! I recently went to the zoo and stalked the animals there and even laughed at birds. It was great.
Please remember to donate $10 or more dollars to my paypal account so I can continue to entertain you guys. It is what I do and I do it well.
Do NOT send me messages calling me fat, gay, retarded, bitch, morbidly obese, nasty ass, extra fat, walrus face, or king fat. You will be banned from my wonderful videos and the proper law enforcement authorities will be contacted.
So stay tuned for more amazing videos and get ready for some bad ass Uncharted 2 playthrough videos.....YEAAAAAH!! Make sure to look for my patented random burps in all of my videos.
Remember kiddies, there is only true king of hate and thats me! Many have tried and failed but they cannot stand up to the king!!!!!!!!! REYAH!!!
Posted by Violent Lucidity on October 14, 2009 at 12:02 a.m. #51
@ chickenwings
I haven't spent much time on SF4, so as you can imagine I suck at adding FADC's onto combos. This is mainly because when I do a move knowing that I want to FADC it my commands get crossed and something else comes out, even something as simple as hadoken, FADC, s.hp. It's even worse when it comes to real match applications.
All I can do is practice for hours in the sexy training room and hone my muscle memory and dexterity to autopilot it, but the damage scaling on these types of combos almost makes it not even worth it to put the time and effort into practicing them. Makes me just want to save FADC'ing for ultra setups and getting out of trouble and just practice the links.
So, yes, I completely agree. Big combos should be worth it. Either ease up on the damage scaling, or make them ridiculously difficult to pull off in a real match.
Posted by General_Awesomo on October 14, 2009 at 12:16 a.m. #52
Vega...What have they done to you in SFIV? You used to be one of the fastest fighter in SF2. A successful Rolling Crystal Flash guaranteed a crouching mp. It didn't take you five minutes to fly and jump off a wall when doing a Flying Barcelona Attack. When you missed with you super, it didn't eat away at your super bar. You were the epitome of speed. Then along comes El Fuerte and takes your place. Hope you get the upgrades you deserve desperately in SSFIV.
Just make him like he is on SSF2THDR and give him a Scarlet Mirage Super or Ultra (charge back, forward, back, forward + K or KKK/ qcf, qcf + K/KKK) that has 3 hits, like in SFA3. EX FBA should go through fireballs. That would give Vega another options for fireball spammer along with EX SHC and his Ultra. It would be nice for the Scarlet Mirage and the Red Impact to return. How about giving Vega a rapid special like Blanka's electricity? Like he would slash madly around him, maybe making it look like Zangief's lariat with a claw. Or make it a multi-stab move. Oh yeah, I almost forgot. The way his mask and claw always falls off. That's not tactical, that's just annoying. I don't see Bison's hat falling off or Balrog's gloves slipping off. And when you're being beat by Rufus in SPEED, you know there's a problem.
Posted by Panda on October 14, 2009 at 12:25 a.m. #53
"Okada (Battle planner/direction):
Well, I said this when we were making the game too, but can't it be OK to have 1:9 matchups in the game? If a game has nothing but 5:5 or 6:4 matchups, you could definitely say it's a well-balanced game, but in the end it's like "everyone just plays like Ryu, huh." With that in mind, from the beginning we set out to make balance a priority."
Dumbest thing I've ever heard.
He might as well have said: "Hey everyone! Nerfing vega and guile to have some 9-1 matchups will make the game more fun!"
Posted by Smorgasboard on October 14, 2009 at 12:39 a.m. #54
Damage scaling is there because Capcom wants you to be able to pull off crazy combos without it degenerating the game. It lets them implement linking and FADC without worry. I'm sorry that your 100000 hit combo does so little damage but that isn't what Street Fighter is about.
There are two reason why people would want to rebalance the game. First is that they want to make the game more enjoyable. Second is that they would rather the developers make the game easier for them than actually practicing to become better themselves. Guess which are you? Don't flatter yourself.
If anything, the developers will never find the perfect balance when it comes to these kind of game. You will always feel like you can make a bit of changes here and there but eventually you have to released it out to the world. They even said themselves that most of the possibilities the players discover even surprises them.
Unless you want to play a game with 20 Ryu's.
Posted by jeff on October 14, 2009 at 12:54 a.m. #55
In the early demos, Guile had very V-shaped eyebrow bones and looked kind of creepy. Luckily they fixed that in the final version to give him his original horizontal eyebrow bones.
I wish I could switch the portraits so that I can choose the portraits of the Japanese version.
Posted by philip on October 14, 2009 at 1:09 a.m. #56
"J on October 13, 2009 at 11:51 p.m. #49"
"I really hope they fix balance. Abel Blanka matchup is 1:9. Won't really matter since I will play DJ, but Debuffs and Buffs for the whole cast. Who care if every matchup is a 5:5 or a 6:4?"
hey dude im an abel player out of 10 matches i can beat blanka 7 : 3. it all depends on the player
SF4 characters are all well balanced. i mean sure there are some things like seth and akuma being so weak but akumas always have weak defense because hes so strong, sagat is gonna be powerful look at him. But that shouldnt matter if you are a skillful player. you have to learn your opponents style of playing, read it, and counter according. so to all the whiners STFU and get better and live with it cuz no matter what you all still say, your gonna be playing the game anyways.
Posted by jeff on October 14, 2009 at 1:10 a.m. #57
"Tsukamoto:
Well for me, when Sakura was added to the game, I was thinking, um, there's the Flower Kick, right? Her bloomers have to be visible when she does that move, but at first her skirt didn't flare up like it should. In Alpha, I think the name really fits the move, cause you're kinda fixated on it, thinking, "Open up more, just a little more!"... Or is that just me?"
Perverts!
Posted by philip is an idiot on October 14, 2009 at 1:18 a.m. #58
@philip
Well balanced? CAPCOM has been talking for 9 months about balance issues and even Yoshinori Ono says Sagat is too powerful. You sound like a total overpowered character scrub. A typical scrub who keeps whining that "there is no such thing as priority" but at the same time refuses to choose someone else than Sagat.
Posted by philip on October 14, 2009 at 1:21 a.m. #59
dude every fighting game has their problem, not every game is gonna be balanced...and yes i know they admitted what they did to sagat and seth and etc; but they also said that if a player is skilled enough then they can beat him and btw i dont use overpowered characters, my mains are Abel/ fei long so if your stupid ass wants to challenge me my Gt is little death509 ill be waiting bitch
Posted by Violent Lucidity on October 14, 2009 at 1:34 a.m. #60
Wow. Lot of strong opinions here. Calm down, folks.
@ Smorgasboard
Well, I guess it's all a matter of personal choice whether or not you want to implement complex fadc combos into your strategy. It seems more about using them to keep your opponent in blockstun and chip them with extended pressure than causing damage, or just to increase the chances to stun them, which I'm all for.
Still, it'd be nice to see a somewhat realistic application of damage in relation to the number of hits. I mean, you can understand how wrong it looks at first glance, right? But that does make perfect sense why the damage scaling is there. As a matter of fact, after I posted that, I remembered how glad I was when I heard they'd be working on damage scaling in the US release of TvC, so yeah, egg on my face.
@ philip
Why do you think hardly anybody plays the lower tier characters in tournaments? It's because their limited tool sets force their users to work multiple times harder for wins than the higher tier characters (would you rather pick an old nag to race at the downs, or would you pick a top notch steed?). It's to the point where they receive little to zero representation at tournaments, which I personally find kind of sad. I'd like to see more characters represented, wouldn't you?
I am glad that I don't see any 8:2's or 9:1's in these tiers, and very few 7:3's. It's a great indicator that Capcom is doing something right. They just need to take it a step further.
Though you are right on the money in refuting the 1:9 Abel vs Blanka. That's just outright nonsense. I don't know where J even got that. He's actually around 6:4.
Posted by geodude on October 14, 2009 at 1:36 a.m. #61
the reasoning for the 1:9 ratio is so that the characters' moves and abilities don't get diluted by making what seems powerful (sagat DP) to only take a little bit of damage, and vice versa (like chun/vega's moves). i totally agree with this guy - balancing is good to the extent that something isn't overpowering or "cheap". but having coin-toss ratios defeats the whole purpose of different character matchups.
its like if you played sports and you know your team is vastly unmatched by the talent of your opponent. what's the purpose of trying to win? to pull off the upset! just like the 1980 USA hockey team in the olympics (or any other underdog story). or even a story like chris gardner's pursuit of happyness (odds stacked against you in life). in the end, its the only story worth telling.
Posted by philip is an idiot on October 14, 2009 at 2:09 a.m. #62
If someone with a low-tier character needs to work much harder to beat a high-tier character, that high-tier character is overpowered. You're not very smart, are you?
What you said is like "if you take back what a thief stole from you, he's not a thief anymore".
Dumbass.
Posted by yes4me on October 14, 2009 at 2:11 a.m. #63
@38: Obviously that poster is a moron. When I said Sagat wins most tournaments I really mean real tournaments not online. If you know crap, stop trying to pretend and ask questions.
Posted by yes4me on October 14, 2009 at 2:12 a.m. #64
Jezzz that happened to me twice now. I can't read the number at 2am... it is was for the post 28 not 38.
Posted by philip is an idiot on October 14, 2009 at 2:15 a.m. #65
The issue with overpowered characters is that someone wins because his character is good, even though the player has less skills.
Only when 2 players use the same character, the winner is someone who's either a better player or a super turtle.
Posted by WHATTAAAA! on October 14, 2009 at 2:28 a.m. #66
Reversal DPs shouldn't be so goddamn easy to mash out!
Posted by shinmaster on October 14, 2009 at 2:50 a.m. #67
yep i agree with u whattaaaa they r so goddamn easy
Posted by shinmaster on October 14, 2009 at 2:55 a.m. #68
balanced? yeah right sort out sagat u silly capcom people
Posted by ddd on October 14, 2009 at 3:05 a.m. #69
Dear Capcom,
Scrap SF4 make SF5: Fourth Strike.
Posted by moron on October 14, 2009 at 4:30 a.m. #70
@ #70:
"Make Reversals not break Focus Attack I hate wakeup DP FADC Ultra or another DP or Grab.... WOW thats really creative... (sarchastically)"
Seriously? Then don't keep doing focus attacks on your opponents wakeup, stupid.
Posted by Lol on October 14, 2009 at 4:39 a.m. #71
@ #70:
FA on opponent wakeup lollll.
Posted by SmexyMillz on October 14, 2009 at 5:50 a.m. #72
Fadc on wake up lol who the eff still does that.. just backdash lol it has invincibilty frames omg... they dont need to nerf anyone just make characters more solid.. give my sakura a faster standing roundhouse.. better more useful ultra and a slightly faster hadouken and a couple more moves that are safe on block and dont leave her on minus frames.. also sort out blankas pokes there absolute garbage... other than that balance everyone else and were cool..
Posted by sanwa man on October 14, 2009 at 6:10 a.m. #73
Street fighter 4 is very balanced imo.
I main ryu, hes the first character i ever picked and alway will pick, i cant help it. No matter how sh*t he becomes in future titles, i wil always pick him.
Sagat IS slightly over powered, but i still love playing him, its a good challenge.
Picking a character just to win is pointless..It has no meaning, I'd feel weird picking sagat JUST to win, knowing its the character and not my skill imo..
Posted by seriously people on October 14, 2009 at 6:14 a.m. #74
Can you people even read?
"I said this when we were making the game too, but can't it be OK to have 1:9 matchups in the game? If a game has nothing but 5:5 or 6:4 matchups, you could definitely say it's a well-balanced game, but in the end it's like "everyone just plays like Ryu, huh."
What he is saying, is for a match-up to be exactly 5:5 all characters need to be photocopies of each other.
This is why they make characters with different strengths and weaknesses to make the game more interesting.
How do you even make that into them nerfing characters on purpose?
Posted by Heero on October 14, 2009 at 6:46 a.m. #75
They should put training mode request system instead of arcade.
Posted by STRAIGHTUP on October 14, 2009 at 8:29 a.m. #76
y'all are retarded
Posted by Firegod on October 14, 2009 at 8:33 a.m. #77
this whole thing has gotten hillarous, then again, the teir system is always going to be a touchy subject, i enjoy reading it though.
Posted by SF3 on October 14, 2009 at 8:51 a.m. #78
@4
sf3 is the UTMOST balance. because of the parry system. As long as you knew what they were doing they can't do crap to you.. sf3:3rd strike is the pinnacle of 2d fighting even seth and ono-san declared that..
Posted by breakung_fu??!! on October 14, 2009 at 8:52 a.m. #79
bring that style/character in SSFIV, por favor!! dude in an old school adidas track suit with shell tops busting windmills to flairs to 90s for an ultra!!!!! that'd be sick!!!....haha
Posted by Capcom doing things right on October 14, 2009 at 9:18 a.m. #80
STREET FIGHTER 3RD STRIKE IS JUST A BETTER GAME PARRY SYSTEM MADE YOU THINK BEFORE YOU JUST THROUGH OUT RANDOM SH*T.
Posted by Jouki on October 14, 2009 at 10:03 a.m. #81
@19... you can't spell some simple words considering how old you should mathematically be.
Posted by Firegod on October 14, 2009 at 10:52 a.m. #82
hahah, i love when people pull the third strike theory.
Yes, the parry system did give alot of power to the players, but i have yet to see a major tournement in the last 3 or so years where Sean has won.
I guess daigo and j wong like to parry more with ken and chung li than sean or Q.
*sad face*
Posted by hmong on October 14, 2009 at 12:32 p.m. #83
change the shortcut command for dp's. i seem to get one everyonce in a while cuz of the wierd way the game reads imput commands
Posted by cowboy_soultaker on October 14, 2009 at 12:50 p.m. #84
Great job on the translation, Jigsaw.
Some funny notes.
"I think the character balance in SF4 is pretty good, and I suppose that's just in line with the goals we set up when we started developing the game."
Oh developers, if only the end-users could see the scope your what you've done. still I hope the "tweaks" they mentioned earlier will make this from "pretty balanced" to "gooder balanced" ;-)
"As for Viper, we started talking about a, "female character that will appeal to American fans," which turned into the concept of a "strong female" upon which she was created. So arguably, Viper was the most successful character, wouldn't you say? "
Welllllll, if you wanted a female character that appealed to american fans, you should've made her asian ;-D. fix the hair-do and we'll talk ^_^ As for rufus, Why? why? Breakung-fu sounds awesome, why did you have to make him hideous?
The only complaint about arcade challenge was that player matches were series. I'd rather just do 1 player match arcade style and thats it, not even a lobby. Chop Chop capcom. ;)
one last note....argggh, why such skimpy details on SSF4? T_T
Posted by Dre' on October 14, 2009 at 1:01 p.m. #85
Hope they have 3v3 online
Posted by Guile player on October 14, 2009 at 1:06 p.m. #86
I think Capcom has done a good job balancing the game and I am a huge of fan of dedicating time to a character to discover their secrets. However when some characters can combo into ultra loads of ways including one move fadc into ultra where other characters have basically no way to combo into ultra then some altering is needed. But on the while great, SF4 one of the best games ever.
Posted by Jedah on October 14, 2009 at 1:08 p.m. #87
You know, I don't get the "if all the matchups are 5-5 everyone plays like Ryu" bit. It's simply not true, and sounds like an excuse for doing a poor job balancing.
Hell, the tier list here has Abel v. Dhalsim at 5-5 and those two characters play NOTHING like each other.
I don't know how recent the tier list here is as I had stopped keeping tabs on SF4 until SSF4 was announced, but there are plenty of even matchups with completely different characters.
Don't get lazy Capcom.
Posted by Capcom doing things right on October 14, 2009 at 1:30 p.m. #88
#@82 But I can spell Fu*k you and have a nice day.
Posted by shannaro!!! on October 14, 2009 at 1:34 p.m. #89
I hope they realise all the flaws that Guile has. Jersyfame was right all along.
Posted by Yreval on October 14, 2009 at 1:40 p.m. #90
@79
3rd Strike? You mean the game where low-tier characters drop dead just from seeing Chun-Li's thighs? It's a great game, but... you're just plain wrong.
Posted by Guile player on October 14, 2009 at 1:47 p.m. #91
Another small complaint is how some characters have basically no cross up defence where others have cross up defence that is so good that there is no point even bothering to try. I think that solving this problem would iron out some terrible match ups.
Posted by Capcom doing things right on October 14, 2009 at 1:50 p.m. #92
@#91 3rd strike is the GOD OF ALL FIGHTING GAMES 10years strong and still running. I understand you may not like the game but you can't hate the game for what is still one of the best 2D Fighter's of ALL TIME.
STREET FIGHTER III 3RD STRIKE 1999-2009-And it's still alive a KICKIN-Til the END OF TIME 3S will be here and there nothing you 3S hater's can do about it.
Posted by jhendrix on October 14, 2009 at 1:51 p.m. #93
i dont see what all this bull is with charactres.. ok iam a ryu user but i have always been a ryu user through all the sf,s .. i think the wee girls will always moan because they cant spend the time getting to know what there character is capble against all other matchups.. if u use a certain character and he has moved down the tier list from the previous game IT MEANS U NEED TO USE HIM DIFFRENTILLY GET THAT INTO UR BRAINS..or take the time to learn another character stop whining and get on with it and if u suck at using another character give up and play skip rope u little girls
Posted by Guile player on October 14, 2009 at 2:04 p.m. #94
@#94 you would say that cos u play Ryu, just because people think there are balancing issues doesn't mean that they don't know their own character really well. I'm sure that if you genuinely thought that your character was really lacking in certain areas then you would say so. Also I would hate if Guile was considered top tier, i just want a fairer fight where all the moves he was given can be used.
Posted by PSN Greylynx on October 14, 2009 at 2:28 p.m. #95
They need to rock paper sissors the whole thing aka Rock(Sagat) has an advantage over Sissors(Gulie) but can be whooped by paper(Ryu) and Sissors can whoop Paper
Posted by PSN Greylynx on October 14, 2009 at 2:34 p.m. #96
everyone needs there own rock paper and sissors but they can't be the paper to more then 3 people's rock so you have some 7:3 8:2 matches but you also have that person getting 2:8 7:3 matches along with 6:4 5:5 matches against some characters.
Posted by cool. on October 14, 2009 at 2:36 p.m. #97
Sweet now they going to balance the character. now inPUT the option menu THAT you CAN toggle ON/OFF the shortcutt comman like in Alpha please!!! I dont like the srub shortcut it mess things up.
Posted by nunubx on October 14, 2009 at 2:38 p.m. #98
Wow,ether you guys are capcom fanboys or you guys never have played a truly balanced fighting game before. There has never been a balanced street fighter game. never has and never will. why? I'll tell you why.
1.even after all these years,capcom STILL does not know how to make a balanced fighting game.
2.after 3s debuted,only about 2 or 3 characters were used in tournaments.
3.Doesn't matter if the game has tier gaps the size of the grand canyon,if it has street fighter in the title,people will buy it.
Capcom has sated that SSFIV will have better balancing but I'm not holding my breath,given capcom's track record. If I wanted a balanced fighting game,i'll go play KOFXII,all hell,if I wanted a even better balanced fighting game than that,i'll go play Garou: Mark of the Wolves.
Just go's to show that being the most popular doesn't mean your the best.
Posted by Douchebag on October 14, 2009 at 3:08 p.m. #99
@99 - Yeah, but you sound like an SNK dick rider. If you going to blacklist people as fanboys, try not to make yourself sound like a hypocrite. For the record, I have played Fatal Fury: Mark of the Wolves, and Terry Bogard and Gato are overpowered bastards. Still a great game, though.
Posted by ¿? on October 14, 2009 at 3:30 p.m. #100
"Here, I'll tell you why capcom fighting games are not balanced: because capcom can't make a balanced fighting game"
Cool arguments, bro
@93 read his post again, this time paying more attention.
Posted by saiferoth on October 14, 2009 at 3:32 p.m. #101
@99 - i can agree with you to a certain extent, i mean, i think the Street Fighter games are a lot better than KOF. But i still like KOF, dont get me wrong.
Also, the game is pretty balanced its just that people who play sagat and ryu too much (i play sagat and ryu occasionally ) need to know that people get annoyed by that. Also, if u play a different character then Ryu/Rufus/Sagat/Balrog then people will probably be a bit more wary because there not that used to the mixups. ex. Abel and his craziness rolls or Dhalsim (yea i kno people main him) and his great zoning game.
Posted by AceisFTW on October 14, 2009 at 3:44 p.m. #102
"Well balanced? CAPCOM has been talking for 9 months about balance issues and even Yoshinori Ono says Sagat is too powerful. You sound like a total overpowered character scrub. A typical scrub who keeps whining that "there is no such thing as priority" but at the same time refuses to choose someone else than Sagat."
OWNED! but yea sagat is overpowerd and im tired of all the shoto scrubs who think they are pro because they run away and spam fireballs then they still lose and try to make a excuse "oh all u did was grab" IM ABEL DUMASS WTF AM I SUPPOSED TO DO! and ffs UP GUILE NO COMBO INTO ULTRA WTF!
Posted by jhendrix on October 14, 2009 at 3:54 p.m. #103
guile player as i said if my character was lacking in the newest sf i whould change character and practice and practice to get better with them pick a a character play the game regardless and stop moaning
Posted by Guile player on October 14, 2009 at 4:04 p.m. #104
@#104 you pick a character just because they're the best. That's sad. There is a difference between moaning about your character and wanting to improve balance in an already brilliant game.
Posted by @105 on October 14, 2009 at 4:54 p.m. #105
So what if somebody picks a character because he/she is the best? If it were a tournament with money on the line, I'd doubt anyone who's not a moron would say, "I'm not gonna use this character and possibly lose out on the winnings cause he's so good it won't be a challenge." That, or the player's rich as hell and is too good for extra money.
Posted by @ PSN Greylynx on October 14, 2009 at 5:01 p.m. #106
I would love more rock paper scissors match ups, but blind picks would have to be readily available as an option or counter-picking would be rampant.
@ @105 post 106
Hell, yeah. Play to win. (Unless you're just messing around for fun)
Posted by Guile and Able are both jokes!! on October 14, 2009 at 5:08 p.m. #107
yup yup Im just stating Facts
Guile is a joke and after seeing Combofiend playing Abel is a joke
these are FACTS.
Posted by Digital- on October 14, 2009 at 5:16 p.m. #108
I agree with:
"Here, I'll tell you why capcom fighting games are not balanced: because capcom can't make a balanced fighting game"
I am hoping they tone down the shoto characters but since they are Japanese game developers they want to show everyone else that since Japan isn't powerful in the real world that they are the most powerful fighting game characters in their own fighting game.
LMAO @ Shoto Scrubs
Posted by Stop doing the same thing forever on October 14, 2009 at 5:39 p.m. #109
Many people were smart enough to post that this is the most balanced SF yet. The match ups are a lot better than most games. The only 2 other games that can boast that kind of balance are Guilty Gear Accent Core (aka Eddie fest 9000) and Virtua Fighter (pretty dang impressive). I personally am a SF fan. I'll play just about any fighting game, but SF just seems to do the most amount of things that I like.
The one thing I don't get about some of the posters here is being that there is a 1% chance you are a diehard VF tournament player. Where do some of you find these examples of more balanced games? I would love to see Capcom continue to improve their product. I already love it, and if they want to improve it then I win all over again. I'm not about to say I deserve this, and that would be such an easy fix, or act like it is so easy to balance a game with so many characters. What I will do is support a company that strives to improve something I already love.
Posted by Vega on October 14, 2009 at 5:53 p.m. #110
Give me an ATTACK with invincibility. I get owned on wakeup by the stupidest things. Increase my ultra damage because it's the hardest to hit with. Make it so that my super doesn't activate unless I land the grab. And for God's sake, make it so that I don't get raped by focus attacks so badly.
Posted by @70 on October 14, 2009 at 6:19 p.m. #111
Amen man, Anti-Air Kick is suppperr needed.
I don't understand why they dont make chun li high tier?
She has one of the biggest fan sets.
SRSLY.
I grew up with her!
Posted by chickenwings on October 14, 2009 at 6:59 p.m. #112
People keep posting about character balance. Yes it is still better then alot of other games and that says alot since its the games faster iteration. But nobody is mentioning the unbalance between offense and defense.
Posted by @112 on October 14, 2009 at 7:17 p.m. #113
Cause Chun Li was a top tier in 3rd Strike I'm sick of that bitch anyways
Posted by Nick C. on October 14, 2009 at 8:01 p.m. #114
Add more girl characters. Karin, Elena, Ingrid or Morrigan. There's a lot to choose from, so don't make it only 6 girls and a bunch of guys.
Posted by Grr on October 14, 2009 at 8:17 p.m. #115
"Well, I said this when we were making the game too, but can't it be OK to have 1:9 matchups in the game? If a game has nothing but 5:5 or 6:4 matchups, you could definitely say it's a well-balanced game, but in the end it's like "everyone just plays like Ryu, huh."
Guys, that only works if *everyone* has the same number of 1:9 matchups...not when Ryu still gets to be 6:4 and up. But it's been obvious for a long time that Ryu will never be at a major disadvantage against anyone.
I don't find anything particularly fun about a match being nearly a foregone conclusion because I "picked the wrong character." If these guys can't think of a way for everyone to have a fair chance against one another without having them play identically, then go back to the drawing board on it! That's the guts of a competitive game!!!
Posted by @#19 on October 14, 2009 at 8:20 p.m. #116
"If you new commer's don't clean up your play you all are going to run the fighting game sense into the ground. Just practice and I promise you there will be no match up you won't be able to win."
How many tournaments have you won with Sakura lately, faggot? It doesn't matter if someone started playing yesterday: they may still be capable of noticing a balance issue.
Posted by Capcom doing things right on October 14, 2009 at 9:14 p.m. #117
@#117 You have the nerve to call me a faggot because I don't B**ch about balancing LOL real smart kid. And to answer your question NONE. But how may TOURNAMENT'S HAVE you won? Just as many as me with Sakura but I have won Tounnament's with RYU AND SAGAT LOL. And I play Sakura to challange my self.
Just to let you know every fighting game in the HISTORY of MAN KIND has always had bad match up's and Balancing Issue's. It will never change and that's just the way thing's are. New commer's like you just need to get your skill game up and STOP B**CHING about every thing. Just practice and you will be ok I promise you.
P.S.-Insted of trying to insult me you need to be in training mode practicing so you won't have the excuse about balancing.
P.S.S- Lear to respect a player who been playing fighting games longer than you have been alive FAGGOT.
And to all the SAGAT whinner's just look at it this way you just came over to Street Fighter when it came to XBOX like in 2004. I was here when there was a character named WORLD WARRIOR GUILE one of the most powerful character's in Street Fighter History.
Good luck and keep Practicing.
Posted by Guile sucks. on October 14, 2009 at 9:29 p.m. #118
Fix him.
Posted by @Guile Sucks on October 14, 2009 at 10:04 p.m. #119
"Fix him."
OKAY!!! ***snip, snip****
Guile has been fixed.
Posted by Lear to respect!!! on October 14, 2009 at 10:10 p.m. #120
No whinner's over here, especially if you're new commer!!
Sometimes I add unnecessary Capital Letters and apostrophe's whenever I'm not winning Tounnament's with my WORLD WARRIOR GUILE and I Love Run on Sentence's.
I've played Every Fighting GAME IN THE history of mankind, that's how decated I am so decated that I SKIPPED English to play STREET FIGHTER I HAVE been around longer than Fighting Game's. '.
P.S. I actually don't have any beef with "Capcom doing things right". In fact, I agree with him on a couple points. I'm just making fun of his atrocious writing mechanics, which he could have spent arcade time working on.
P.P.S. He is encouraging all you new kids to both practice/improve (which I agree with) and go away (which ruins the point of practice). He's trying to help you guys out.
Posted by @117, 118, &121 on October 14, 2009 at 10:13 p.m. #121
UGH!!! NOT THIS THREAD TOO. CAN'T GO ONE TIME ON EVENTHUBS WITHOUT SEEING FLAME POSTS.
ALRIGHT WHATEVER LADIES. LET THE BITCH SLAPS BEGIN.
Posted by UGH!!! NOT THIS POST TOO!!! on October 14, 2009 at 10:20 p.m. #122
"CAN'T GO ONE TIME ON EVENTHUBS WITHOUT SEEING A POST IN ALL CAPS."
Fixed that for you.
P.S. I don't think "begin" is the right word there.
Posted by Balloon on October 14, 2009 at 10:48 p.m. #123
@111:
u forgot a faster wall dive and RCF though i liked that nobody used Vega. It made me feel special. bringing back a ST-like Vega would give me less excuse for sucking
Oh, but in the spirit of the thread: @ 16, 31, 52, and 111: Screw u all and quit whining. vega is crap and you are crap for having opinions.
Posted by Serious Truth on October 14, 2009 at 10:57 p.m. #124
Street Fighter 3 sucks almost as much as Darksydephil.
Posted by General_Awesomo on October 14, 2009 at 11:09 p.m. #125
@124
I pretty much stated everything Vega needs on post #52. I'm not saying anything about the others, but I actually know what I'm saying. Vega is crap now, but he used to be really, really good. Capcom should return him back to his former SF2 glory.
Posted by VegaFabioLaCerda on October 15, 2009 at 12:51 a.m. #126
Actually Vega's Ultra and super are pretty good. It really is the skill of the player. I nail 9 out of 10 ultra's all day long. The super is a little more tricky but 7 out of 10 isnt bad either. I do miss that 4th hit on the super but I still use it a bit. All Vega really needs is higher speed or higher priority. He's slightly underpowered. Maybe a 3:7 against most opponents. Any increase (which is probable) will make him just about right. Good enough to win consistantly but not good enough for everyone to start picking.
What they really need to add is Vega's theme song and classic stage to the mix. There's just something about that cage slamming down at the start of a match that fires me up :D And have more color options with blonde hair.
Posted by VegaFabioLaCerda on October 15, 2009 at 12:58 a.m. #127
Oh and by 4th hit on the Super I mean the 4th slam he had in Alpha on the Rolling Izuna Drop, not the 4th hit on the Flying Barcelona Special
Posted by JHENDRIX on October 15, 2009 at 1:40 a.m. #128
guile is a fag FACT
Posted by General_Awesomo on October 15, 2009 at 1:42 a.m. #129
And how about we get the original white costume scheme instead (or along with) of the gray scheme we get as color 8. Sure, it looks ghosty but I want the original white pants back too.
Posted by General_Awesomo on October 15, 2009 at 1:42 a.m. #130
For Vega.
Posted by anon on October 15, 2009 at 7:23 a.m. #131
Momma always said if you don't have anything nice to say then SHUT YOUR FREAKIN FACE!
Posted by Capcom doing things right on October 15, 2009 at 7:26 a.m. #132
@#121 Hey I hit a few wrong letters it happens to the best of us so what big deal (rolling eyes).
I just want the Fighting Game Scene to stop Bi**hing the FPS scene they don't cry,the Madden scene they don't cry, The NBA 2K scene don't cry,even the RPG scene dosen't Bi**h as much as the fighting game scene. We are one of the most popular and the biggest we need to set examples for other video game scene's. So we can get picked up by MLG, WORLD CYBER GAMES and who ever else is looking at putting the fighting games scene to the masses.
It's been to many great Fighting Game's out there for us as a scene in general to not be on ESPN,G4TV,Sh*t we could possible have a Fighting Game channel with all the money CapCom has got from the arcade machine's.
I could be done but I will never be done if we don't stop bit*hing about balance issue's. Look at the Madden scene Madden it's self is an unbalanced game and the don't BI*CH abouit the suck it up and they PLAY THE GAME,and look what happens the Madden tour go's to every major city across NORTH AMERICA, there on ESPN every YEAR with the Madden Challange. That could very well be CAPCOM and STREET FIGHTER but instead of practicing we sit here and cry about I trade with Ryu's upper cut all day, I hate Ken's dragon punch, all people do is spam Geif's Lariat, Sagat is too strong, All you did with Gouken is anit air every round that's why you won. What we need to do is get into Street Fighter like our life depended on it so we can get on ESPN, G4TV and so forth and so on. So the other video game scene's will stop Laughing at us and stop saying all you do in a fighting game is MASH BUTTON'S
Posted by um on October 15, 2009 at 8:11 a.m. #133
Why are you using sports as a basis on balance? people don't bitch about sports bc its not suppose to be balanced....its a a sports game you idiot...teams have players with different attributes and stats....they aren't gonna nerf players like Lebron and Kobe for the sake of balance in a sports video game..
Your an idiot.
Posted by Capcom doing things right on October 15, 2009 at 8:21 a.m. #134
@#134 My point being you dumb ass is that the fighting game scene has turned into a bunch of babies most of you bitch all day about the smallest thing you don't like that was my point and if you read all of the post you will see that I was talking about a bigger future for the Fighting game scene in general. You the Idiot for not see what the fighting game scene has turned into. We went form just playing the game and figuring out how to beat the best character the calling CAPCOM and telling them to nerf this or that character. You need to open your eyes and see the bigger picture when you read my post not just the small detail's you don't like.
Posted by um on October 15, 2009 at 8:37 a.m. #135
no i see what your saying about the fighting scene but it was rather moronic to state that no one complains about sports game balance when they aren't meant to be balance in the first place. So why would they B*tch about balance in a games like Madden or 2K10? Its not the same at all...its not even comparing apples and oranges...its like comparing apples to carots.
and the only people who have a right to bitch about balance is the pro's. They are the ones have a right to take note on the balance issues... Not Joe scrub from event hubs.
Posted by um? on October 15, 2009 at 8:50 a.m. #136
lol @ "your an idiot"
irony 101, son.
Posted by Capcom doing things right on October 15, 2009 at 9:07 a.m. #137
@#136 And your right we/they don't. So if pro's don't bi*h why do the normal people do?
I'm a pro FPS player/SF player and you never hear me bi*ch about any thing so why do the "NORMAL PEOPLE" do I just have to know why?
NOT so much SF4 but I'm a true Street Fighter fan so I suck it up and I play the game and I hate it with a passion. But I go around the country to Tournaments and I support the scene and you don't here ma cry about it.
3s/CVS2 & FPS like RB6V2 and Call of DUTY are the game's I'm pro at. SF4 I win I win I lose I lose. Yall be cool and just KEEP PRACTICING. I know I will.
Posted by rofl on October 15, 2009 at 9:14 a.m. #138
So "Capcom doing things right" insists that by losing at a game he hates with a passion, he is a "real fan" and the rest of you who want the balance issues addressed so it is more fun need to "suck it up"
Go back on your antipsychotic medication, you gigantic faggot
Posted by Capcom doing things right on October 15, 2009 at 9:20 a.m. #139
Look just because I happen to be gay doesn't mean I'm wrong, yall need to stop hating on homosexuals, I mean sure I mainly play video games because of all the great opportunities to meet young boys, but being a pedophile doesn't mean I can't beat you with RYU and SAGAT
Posted by VegaFabioLaCerda on October 15, 2009 at 9:24 a.m. #140
@#133
I can sorta agree with you. There are a lot of people complaining about things they wouldnt have to complain about if they played the style of the character and not how they want to play, which keeps them from learning real skill. But I'm up for change since I'm kinda tired of doing the same things to each character and with each character. I hope they change every character a bit, otherwise there's almost no point in getting SSF4. New characters but you end up doing the same things with the old ones.
Personally, I like how most people pick the same 5ish people. When you go into the finals in champoinship mode and see someone pick Rose or Fei Long, (assuming they are good) it's nice to be forced to be fluid in your strategy and try to out play and out think your opponent instead of seeing everything so much you just automatically react to everything Ryu or Ken or Sagat does.
I don't think anyone needs to be "nerfed." Everyone only needs small adjustments (or big adjustments just to spice things up). If you want to complain about Zangief's lariat spinning, wait till after the 3rd spint to try to hit him or if you're GOOD... time your hit in between his arms (hint: use LP or LK). If someone is turtling maintain an advantage if health and let time run out. I guarentee you when there's only 20 secs left and they are losing they will come after you. Vary you're timing, be unpredictable, out smart your opponent. Everything can be beaten. This coming from a Vega main. Tournament winners aren't the ones that do 1 move to win every match nor are the ones that complain about someone spamming 1 move. Do that to me and you get punished. In addition to the above for player adjustments it would be nice to change Vega's input for scarlet terror since it can easily get mixed up with a forward FBA, but it's not something that will kill me.
(cont below because i ran outta characters)
Posted by Capcom doing things right on October 15, 2009 at 9:24 a.m. #141
@#139 Yes they do. Because when SSF4 they will do the same thing they are doing now Bi*ch about another character. It will just keep going and going and going, that all I'm trying to say.
EVERY FIGHTING GAME WILL HAVE BALANCE ISSUE'S,THAT WHAT WE NEED TO REALIZE. YOU JUST HAVE TO ROLL WITH THE PUNCHES KEEP PRACTICING.
And I'm a true fan because I love Street Fighter and no matter how balanced or unbalanced the game is I will buy it play it and keep comming back for more. That why I'm a TRUE FAN!!!
Posted by VegaFabioLaCerda on October 15, 2009 at 9:25 a.m. #142
Let's focus on the important things like adding stages and music. Speaking of music, for God's sake impliment the option to play your own music in game to include online play insted of the same game music over and over. It's good that i don't have to hear "Innnn Deeeee Structabllllle" anymore but the music gets so old. Impliment the option to watch live matches so we can host home online tournaments. Add the save Replay to system option. Make it to where i can select 2P side during 1P mode. Bring back Dramatic Battle WITH the option of being the 1 player VS 2 or 1 player Vs 1 player + computer (not only being able to have 2 player vs 1 cpu). bring in the Home tournament system similar to Virtua Fighter so i can stop using dry erase boards. have a "Make your own Icon" option or something you can put up by your name that's unique. make "complete all trials" worth at least a gold trophy for PS3. Add more costumes (SF4 was good just add more). Take away turbo on the controllers (just make it to where it's off timed so people are forced to learn timing of button presses). Make Seth easier on medium and below and make hard and above more difficult. I mean come on.... beating hardest with 1-2 moves. Seriously. Fix the glitch that keeps people at 0% DC rate and they never lose CP, or BP. Make the entire game installable. Make the lobby live and ditch the constant reloading we have to do online to find someone.
Posted by The REAL Capcom doing things right on October 15, 2009 at 9:31 a.m. #143
@#140 You just showed how gay you are using my name and saying dumb sh*t like that LOL you kids are really funny not true fan's at all JUST FAN BOY'S.
Posted by The REAL REAL Capcom doing things right on October 15, 2009 at 9:34 a.m. #144
@#140 and @#144
Don't you want to grow up and be just like me?
Posted by Capcom doing things right on October 15, 2009 at 9:39 a.m. #145
@#145 Only a bi*ch would go around using another mans name to flame him.
Posted by General_Awesomo on October 15, 2009 at 10:34 a.m. #146
@#143
You bring up a good point. Besides balancing, there should be new features included too.
This would be a combination of two ideas. First, instant replay. To be able to see the last few seconds, possibly at a slower speed, before your opponent's (or your own) demise. Second, just like in SSF2THDR, hitbox mode. To be able to fight while seeing the hitboxes in the game. Now, what if we can combine hitbox mode and a replay mode? Suppose one guy is like "WTF?! No way in hell did that get me." Well, using this new feature, you would be able to see the match again and take note of the hitboxes ingame. An added feature would also be to pause, fast-forward and rewind too. Now I know this might not be an easy task to accomplish. Give me some feedback on this idea.
Posted by Capcom doing things right on October 15, 2009 at 10:37 a.m. #147
Shame on you all!!
Why can't a homosexual pedophile make comments about a game he loves without getting flamed?
Until the police find some evidence to link me to those children I have as much right to be here as anyone else.
Posted by General_Awesomo on October 15, 2009 at 11:16 a.m. #148
@#148
Stop. Just stop
Posted by Capcom doing things right on October 15, 2009 at 12:08 p.m. #149
@#146 Only a bi*ch's bi*ch would go around using another mans name to flame someone flaming him.
Posted by Valter on October 15, 2009 at 12:21 p.m. #150
2 things I despise about SFIV, these jap fcuks don't know what they are talking about. BALANCED?! This game is anything but balanced, try playing online once and see for yourself how every 7 out of 10 players in ranked, player, and championship use Ryu or abuse Ken's fierce dragonpunch like no tomorrow. What was going through their minds when Guile and Vega's stun was made unequal to those of Ken and Ryu? Why give Zangief and Sagat the most health when their damage output are the highest? Makes no sense. Don't contradict me because you know it's right. The Mask idea on Vega was the worst implementation to a fighting game I've seen.
You know what SFIV needs? Developers with brains and the removal of Seth. Who removes polls wanting SF3 characters and randomly adds in their personal favorites? ( Cammy, Dan, Fei Long ) We didn't vote for them, we voted for Third Strike characters not the SFII stuff we were trying to get away from. Replace the current Street Fighter graphic's editiors with Resident Evil's graphic editiors, they'll make your game look less "cartoony" and choppy and remake it with better graphics and more fluidity.
Posted by VegaFabioLaCerda on October 15, 2009 at 1:17 p.m. #151
Actually the mask and claw detaching arent that bad. damage output goes up 10% when you lose mask and goes down 10% on claw attacks only when you lose claw. yeah there's a downside, but that measn just don't get hit. there are 5 million ways to not get hit. personally i never make an effort to get the mask back... only the claw that i sometimes detach on purpose to reset hit count. it's not a great idea... but there are ways to utilize it so it's not a bad idea either.
i've never seen the polls but the only SF3 characters that got my attantion were Makoto, Twelve and Ibuki. It would probably be better overall though just to do away with the storyline that has totally been screwed up by capcom (only the series and animated SF2 movie were any good) and just put everyone in there. It's a lotta work but eh.
As far as the hitbox idea i'm not really for it. but that's because i'm biased and play a speed dependant character. i'm not exactically keen on the idea of having everyone the point blank easy ability to count how many frames they have to nail me.
Posted by jhendrix on October 15, 2009 at 1:34 p.m. #152
who ever is using 'capcoms doing things right' name to make silly comments ur a cock thats a fact. as of the comments u make 'capcom doing things right there pretty fair and correct very correct 'valter' we dont need to know about zangief and sagat's strenths WE KNOW !! why dosent all the bitches that moan learn there characters way of playing and learn well.. if u dont like it f*&% off and thats that.. leave the rest of us to it we dont need fag moaning little bitch girls messing our game up by moaning over and over about it. and plus espicially with ryu why whould they make the leading character in the game a fag hes gonna be up ther always plz guys learn to play against ryu balrog sagt etc etc and eventually u will see what we see they can be beat in any givin matchup
Posted by @151 on October 15, 2009 at 2:03 p.m. #153
Obviously you've never played most other fighting games. Gill from SF3, K9999 and Adelheim from KoF, The Sentinel and Dr. Doom from MvC2, these are unbalanced characters. Sagat and Zangief are not. Yeah Sagat is a little on the broken side but he's not as bad as Meta-knight from SSBB. Zangief especially, who, last time I checked isn,t even top tier, is far from unbalanced. Plus Seth has an (i.e. the only) 8:2 advantage over him. The game is amazingly well-balanced considering the depth of the engine and the size of the character roster, especially when compared to other games. And lastly there is no way on Earth that Street Fighter would look better with the crappy Resident Evil graphics engine. The "cartoony" look has worked for SF for years and its gonna continue to work. We don't need SF falling in line with the grey and brown post-apocalypse suck-fest that is most games today.
Posted by Capcom doing things right on October 15, 2009 at 2:08 p.m. #154
I love you. You love me. We're a happy family, with a great big hug and a kiss from me to you. Won't you say you love me too.
Posted by The REAL Capcom doing things right on October 15, 2009 at 2:12 p.m. #155
@#155 Get a life kid
Posted by The REAL Capcom doing things right on October 15, 2009 at 2:12 p.m. #156
But yeah I love you too.
Posted by Balloon on October 15, 2009 at 5:45 p.m. #157
@#145:
I got the reference. Kudos.
Posted by Firegod on October 15, 2009 at 6:45 p.m. #158
haha man, some good reading here rofl ahahha
Posted by Capcom doing things right on October 15, 2009 at 7:19 p.m. #159
Look. You all need to STOP this. I posted as Jhendrix #153 and I fooled you all didn't I!? No one could tell that was me, my dyslexia totally didn't give it away.
What I'm trying to say is that I am the only TRUE fan of Street Fighter in the world. All new players i.e. after 1991 need to just leave, you are all scrubs and fanboys. Even if you are an old fan like me you need to leave also, as I am the greatest player that ever lived; FACT. I am also the FPS king. Only I deserve Super Street Fighter 4, everyone else needs to GTFO NOW!
Please don't bring up my personal life either, all the accusations about me and those young boys are false. The police have no evidence so I must be assumed innocent until proven guilty. If you must know the truth I lost my genitals in an arcade machine in Rio back in '95, so I can't be a pedophile can I?! Stupid Fanboy scrubs.
Posted by The REAL Capcom doing things right on October 15, 2009 at 7:25 p.m. #160
@#160 Dam kid you really have no life you sit on the internet all day trying to get a laugh LOL. BOY BOY BOY you need some pussy kid.
Posted by The REAL Capcom doing things right on October 15, 2009 at 7:33 p.m. #161
Boys with pussies, kids with pussies thats what I want.
BOYS BOYS BOYS
Posted by Trolling4Suckers on October 15, 2009 at 7:52 p.m. #162
Ladies, calm down. Calm down. I know everyone is having horrendous flashbacks of themselves getting their asses kicked in high school. I admit I troll these forums and insult gaming dorks who have yet to reach puberty, but it looks like some people here are far more dedicated to their craft than yours truly. All of you can cease and desist the nerd wars now. 90% of forum participants are lifeless virgins bitter over their sorry predicament. Crawl out of your basements sometime and get a breath of fresh air. There is more to life than Street Fighter. Yes, it may seem hard to believe for those completely detracted from reality, but it is the truth.
Posted by Balloon on October 15, 2009 at 8:37 p.m. #163
@163: Everything you said described my life. How do you know??!!
Also, I know #160 is chastising the fake one, but I don't think that one is real either. I think some of the fake ones are turning on each other.
Posted by Balloon (again) on October 15, 2009 at 8:42 p.m. #164
Correction: #161, not #160.
Posted by General_Awesomo on October 16, 2009 at 1:02 a.m. #165
I'm sorry. I could have sworn this was a discussion about Super Street Fighter 4. Not a chit-chat that goes:
A: "I'm the #1 SF fan in the world!"
B: "No, go away faggot."
A: "Yes, I am gay. I love little boys! WHEEEEE!"
B: "..."
A pretending to be B: "I'm a bitch."
Seriously, shut up.
Posted by baz on October 16, 2009 at 2:54 a.m. #166
(Well, I said this when we were making the game too, but can't it be OK to have 1:9 matchups in the game? If a game has nothing but 5:5 or 6:4 matchups, you could definitely say it's a well-balanced game, but in the end it's like "everyone just plays like Ryu, huh." )
= people near the top of this forum where arguing about the meaning of this comment, my interpretation is even all or most of the characters will seem to play the same and have moves that take off the same damage if you try to make them all fair. I mean if you really wanted a fair fight play character vs same character, having unusually weak characters and unusually strong characters is part of the potential variety. I want the game to be fair like all the rest of you but I get what he's saying and if you have played a lot of street fighter games in general, you'll notice that almost half the characters play like ryu anyway( or he plays like them ). I know some of the stuff I just wrote might piss people off but I've played a lot of street fighter and that's just how I feel, but feel free to call me names and pretend to be me because I find it a bit entertaining.
Posted by balloon (again) on October 16, 2009 at 4:05 a.m. #167
UUUUH, numbers confuse me. Also I used to call myself 'capcom doing things right' and I love young boys. I don't know what general awesome and baz are talking about, I thought this was a discussion about how this game should be banned to anyone under the age of 40. Who cares how well balanced it is??!! I'll be playing anyway, a TRUE FAN, not a FANBOY.
Posted by jhendrix on October 16, 2009 at 5:08 a.m. #168
capcom doing things right i was sticking up for u m8 as u made a lot of good points but clearly uve lost ur way in this argument and u starting to anoy me with u remarks u aint the only sf fan out ther that cares about the game so shut the fck up for this post and move on
Posted by The REAL Capcom doing things right on October 16, 2009 at 5:40 a.m. #169
@169 If you don't agree with me you are a FANBOY and probably only just started playing Street Fighter 4 over XBOX live. I have been playing Street Fighter non stop since 1991 and before that I was in Japan playing early demos of the game BEFORE IT WAS EVEN MADE. A TRUE FAN not a FANBOY like you and all the rest of these scrubs. I am also the FPS king.
Posted by Capcom doing things right on October 16, 2009 at 8:01 a.m. #170
@#169 the dumb comment's are not me it so kid who has no life and is trying to get a laugh I only1 write comment's that have to do with the situation at hand
Posted by "FANBOY" on October 16, 2009 at 8:16 a.m. #171
A true fan would have said 1987 dumbass but I guess you started with SF2. Then again you probably didnt know there was even a Street Fighter (1) did you? So shut up or I'm reporting you.
Posted by Capcom doing things right on October 16, 2009 at 9:20 a.m. #172
@172
No you fuking retard, in 1987 I was playing early demo versions of SF2 in a Japanese basement like a TRUE FAN. I had already proved that I was the master of SF1 at that time as I had been playing it underground for the past 5 yrs and had nothing more to prove. Not like a scrub like you.
March 1991 is the last date you can start playing Street Fighter before you are automatically classed as a scrubby fanboy, I wouldn't expect a noob like you to know that though. I will beat you in any FPS or Street Fighter game that exists. When Super Street Fighter 4 comes out I will beat you at that too, Ono san lets TRUE FANS like me play it early and I have already mastered it.
Also will the person pretending to be me stop now?! Please, its just sad. I am the only TRUE FAN of Street Fighter, EVERYONE ELSE is a scrub.
Posted by jhendrix on October 16, 2009 at 1:22 p.m. #173
this blog is disapering from the balance problems which there is only 1 'sagat '
Posted by BullDance on October 16, 2009 at 1:43 p.m. #174
@173 its apparent that you are trying to piss people off because no one in the world can be this dumb its just a game, nobody cares and also please no one else comment about this random idiot.
Anyway I need more details, are they getting advice from pro players like Sirlin did for HD Remix or are they simply changing things at their own discretion. If thats the case, i will not get into this BS game. Tried SF:4 and not trying to have a repeat of the balance problems for the low tier characters. Usually low tier means viable enough to use in a tournament but the low tiers in SF:4 are more like garbage tier and I found them quite unplayable as competitive characters.
Posted by JerseyFame on October 16, 2009 at 2:25 p.m. #175
Comment #1 is so true...damn.
Posted by lol on October 16, 2009 at 4:45 p.m. #176
Darksyde begs for money haha
Posted by baz on October 16, 2009 at 6:41 p.m. #177
@ jerseyfame I thought seth on hardest is still kind of hard but not as hard as gill on hardest in 3td strike.
@ (comment 173) I don't know if your the same person as when this post began but I played sf2 once in the arcade when it came out then I played the super nintendo one a whole lot and every one of them afterward, never been to Japan but now I own all or most street fighter games and I got an arcade machine with mame and a hacked xbox with like every arcade game from the 90's, and a bunch of rare memorabilia and comics, so since I own all this stuff I think I'm a "Truer" fan than you, and if you are down to argue this I will return to this post to see your response, and by the by I heard there was an arcade version of SF1 with giant buttons that you hit at different strengths to do light medium hard punches and kicks, If you have played this version I would like to hear your comments on it
Posted by wow on October 16, 2009 at 8:06 p.m. #178
look at these comments...
Posted by Capcom doing things right on October 16, 2009 at 8:11 p.m. #179
@175: Why you don't read my post bich?! I am the TRUE FAN of Street Fighter. Ono san asked me to come to Japan and help him to balance the game I have been testing an early demo for the past six months. He tried to do it by himself last time on SF4 and failed. Now he asks TRUE FANS like me and not FANBOY scrubs like you. I also balance Modern Warfare 2 for Infinity Ward because I am pro FPS king.
Also stop whining about tiers, just play and win like me.
@#178: You better check back on this post, I am the REAL Capcom doing things right, the master of Street Fighter and the games only TRUE FAN. You have mame and hacked xbox?! This proves you are just a scrub. I ONLY PLAY ARCADE WITH PRO SF PLAYERS, I make thousands of dollars in tournament winnings; not surround myself with memorabillia like old cat lady.
To be on my level you MUST live in the arcade, I lost my genitals in arcade machine back in '95, did I moan about balance? No, I just play and I just win. Only man ever to beat me was Akira Nish!tani mighty creator of Street Fighter 2. He use Ryu I use WORLD WARRIOR GUILE.
Also good to see you know about the original Street Fighter arcade. The pressure sensitive buttons were a bit of a gimmick. After I, the TRUE FAN suggest normal buttons Capcom release some machines with normal buttons and keep them for Street Fighter 2.
Keep practicing, stop whining, someday you can be like me, a TRUE FAN and not a FANBOY. (But only if you started playing before March 1991)
Posted by Bubbles on October 16, 2009 at 8:18 p.m. #180
That is a terrible analogy for balance. 95% of the matchups at 5:5 or 6:4, but not everyone plays like the same character. Lazy balancing i say.
Posted by Bubbles on October 16, 2009 at 8:18 p.m. #181
for guilty gear accent core i meant
Posted by Capcom doing things right on October 16, 2009 at 9:18 p.m. #182
Hi I'm a dumbass and I was born in 1997. Guess that makes me a "FANBOY and a "Scrub" since no one has even used that word since the 90's, but I'm so stupid I didn't know that. By the way if any other little boys out there are available I'm still a virgin and I havnt even hit puberty.
Posted by the REAL Capcom doing things Right on October 17, 2009 at 3:23 a.m. #183
@183 HaHaHa!
Everyone knows you are not really me because I have already confesed to being a homosexual pedophile, also I think this game should be banned to anyone under the age of 40. A REAL FAN and not a FANBOY.
Posted by @ 154 on October 19, 2009 at 8:21 a.m. #184
You are only fooling yourself if agree this game is "balanced." Zangief has extremely high damage output. Sagat's health should be 1000 and Zangief's health 1200. Not 200+.
Posted by their song n stage needs to come back on October 19, 2009 at 8:30 a.m. #185
as far as the change we heard rite now. i hope they bring back the character stages and their theme song,well re-made i should add, because the only time u get to hear it, is either a rival match which some orginal fighter didnt even have a re-made, dont know what capcom was thinking about there,or in survival hard only, which i re-fight gulie and cammy so many time just to listen to their theme, because it bring back classic SF memorise and that feel of how i start loving SF, because of their kick ass theme, even the intro theme kick ass. Just hope they give that a though n stay true to their old SF fan, dont be like midway or ed boon i should say, who kill mortal kombat
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