10:46 p.m.
Japanese SSF4 team goes in-depth on network modes
Azrael, who's done a ton of translating for the community, has converted the most recent Japanese Super Street Fighter 4 blog developer post to English.
This is a large entry with a lot of details, so here's a quick summary Azrael typed up giving the gist of what the development team had to say.
- More "community" feel than the last game.
- All multiplayer lobbies will have the ability to spectate matches.
- Working to "preserve" the quality of the netcode from SFIV even with spectators.
- Can use Fight Request while you wait for all members of a team battle.
- For a private team match, the host can divide up the teams. Otherwise, it's done automatically.
- Auto team placement uses Player Points as well as some randomness.
- Voice chat available while watching a match.
- Endless Battle has no effect on Battle Points/Player Points.
- In Ranked, Battle Points is divided up into BP/PP - PP will be your overall score, while BP will be character specific.
- In Ranked, you can upload a replay after 3 straight wins.
- Blind character select for all network modes, including no cursor motion sound.
- Preset comments available for entering a lobby.
It's gotten pretty cold! Is everyone taking care not to catch a cold?
This is Tsukamoto.
As a part of the development team, to catch a cold now would be pretty awful. So I'm being very careful about my health.
I'd like to present the network mode, which has been powered up quite a bit from the last time.
We'll be talking with Taguchi who appeared on the blog the last time, and also bringing in the person in charge of the system. So lets really get in-depth about the network mode!
Well then, let's meet our new guest.
Shiozaki:
I'm Shiozaki, a game designer.
I work on all the general systems outside of the actual fighting, for both this title and the last one.
What have you improved upon for the Network Mode this time around?
Taguchi:
We spoke about this on the blog before, but we felt that for the previous title, the sense of community was a bit lacking, as fights were mostly 1 on 1. So we focused on improving that weakness this time around, and have made connecting with other people our main focus. So now we feel like we've got a total package. Of course, we will preserve the quality of the connection from the last title as well!
Generally speaking, what is a "community"?
Taguchi:
With the previous title, it wasn't set up so that a bunch of people could gather and have fun together. So this time, we've made lobbies for several people to be able to gather and challenge each other. We wanted to do this with Street Fighter 4 as well. One of the issues was, "Do we have multiplayer lobbies, or single player lobbies with extra functionality?" At that time, we decided on single player lobbies with the Fight Request option. I think that was fine for that time, but multiplayer lobbies was still something that had been on the table, so we added it this time around.
Were there any obstacles in introducing this feature?
Taguchi:
In the last title, what we were worried about was that the Fight Request feature and multiplayer lobbies don't really go well together. A multiplayer lobby is one where you wait, while Fight Request is for those who don't like to wait. We thought about a way to get these two systems working well together, and the end result is that we were able to improve upon Fight Request. And that is the Team Battle where you can enable the Fight Request option.
Since you mentioned it, tell us more about Team Battle.
Shiozaki:
If you want to have fun with everyone, Team Battle is definitely the mode of choice. The fights themselves are still 1 vs 1, but most tournaments follow the team format, so we wanted to do the same.
Taguchi:
The best thing about team battle is that you've got starters, middlemen and closers, so you can see how your previous teammate lost and then decide how you want to fight - there are a lot of various things you have to think about. I went to go see the Shiozawa Cup before Super Battle Opera, and I felt a bit jealous, as people waiting for their turn would watch their teammates battle and get all worked up, or try and rattle the other team. Even though this is a 1 vs 1 fighting game, the team vs team concept is really something else! Even going to an arcade by myself I never really experienced this, so I felt like the guys participating in the tournament were like superstars (laughs). On the net I saw various tournament announcements for 3v3 or 5v5 tournaments, but I figured that most casual players don't participate in team battles. So if we could accomplish that in the console version, then that would be pretty interesting.
Tsukamoto:
You watched pretty excitedly while saying "That's it!" huh. (laughs)
When you makes the lobby rules, instead of "2 vs 2" or "3 vs 3" or something like that, you get "tag match" or "4 on 4". This is something I wanted personally so that's how it was named (laughs). To get the feeling of, "fighting by the same rules that the pros do at the national tournament."
Could you talk about Fight Request which you mentioned before?
Shiozaki:
Its for those times like, "Well, we've got 6 people, only 2 left," but you're stuck waiting and can't do anything else. So while you are waiting for people you can play in arcade mode, and when you've got everyone together then you can start the match!
Taguchi:
For team battles, if its 3 on 3 you need 6 people, and 4 on 4 you need 8 people. Usually, in a multiplayer lobby, you've got to just wait until everyone shows up, but in Super Street Fighter 4 you can play in arcade mode while you wait, so its like a good warm-up. Of course, playing with your friends is great, but if you don't have any friends (laughs) then you can still enjoy playing in this mode.
What were the difficulties in making Team Battle?
Taguchi:
Continuing on from what was said before, its easy to imagine getting your friends together and everyone having fun. But in reality, actually getting your friends together on the net and then making a lobby - we figured that there aren't many people who would be able to do that. So being able to create a mode where you could enjoy not just with friends, but by yourself as well - that was a bit difficult.
How are the teams separated?
Shiozaki:
For players who came to the private slot by invitation, the host can freely divide up teams as he chooses. When one person just happens into the lobby, even if you have invited players into private slots, if the option is set to "Random" then teams will be divided up automatically.
Taguchi:
For the teams, using the PP (player points) as a base, we've tried to set it up to reduce huge gaps in player skill. There's also a bit of a random element.
While a teammate is fighting, will other people be able to watch the match?
Shiozaki:
This time, if we're going to include a multiplayer experience, then we have to have the ability to spectate. But for the console version, there is some specific retooling that has to be done to pull it off, so this is the engineer's chance to show off his skills.
Regarding spectating, it seems that many people are afraid that if too many people people are watching, that will make the connection heavy...
Shiosaki:
Yep, that's definitely the biggest concern. That's why we're coming up with solutions so the connection won't be affected by spectators.
Taguchi:
It was the same for the previous title, but for SSFIV, if we think about the essentials - we can have match spectation but that would make the connection too heavy, and therefore online battles would be no fun - as a developer I just can't accept that. So we've added the replay mode as a possible solution to that of course, but we are aiming to have the online battles be just as good as they were in the previous title.
Is there anything you can do while watching a fight?
Taguchi:
Voice chat. During a team battle, this lets you get really worked up, or you can just go get something to drink. (laughs).
Shiozaki:
Even though its not an actual word, hearing something like "Oh!" I think is really interesting.
Okay, so now tell us a little about Endless Battle.
Shiozaki:
In the last title, one of our goals was to recreate the arcade feeling. But in the arcade, as you wait your turn you watch other people's matches, and this was something we didn't really pull off. So, using the multiplayer lobbies this time around, you can watch the match before you, and you can think, "Well, he played this way, so I'll play this way to counter," - it's the arcade experience. Endless Battle has no effect on Player Points or Battle Points, so you can just have fun and hone your skills with everyone.
It seems like players who are just getting started can enjoy as well.
Shiozaki:
Yeah, they can watch other people playing and then try to incorporate that into their own game. Its like, having one skilled player create a lobby and then 100 people take him on.
Taguchi:
We can't handle 100 people! Its only a 8-person lobby!
Shiozaki:
Okay then, 8 people fighting 100 times!
Well then, I've heard that Rank Match is also becoming more serious…?
Shiozaki:
Previously, you only got Battle Points (BP) in the Rank Match, but we've expanded upon this to include the Player Points (PP) you've heard us mention before, so you can see how strong the player is with PP, or how strong they are with that particular character with BP. In the previous title, there was no division of points between characters, it was all just on the player's strength. So it was difficult to understand things like "I'm strong with Ken, but not so great with the other characters" or "I'm strong no matter who I use!"
Azrael's note This sounds like the arcade system more or less.
Taguchi:
A lot of people wanted BP for the characters, so it seems that many people on PS3 created character-separate accounts.
People want to know the strength of their character huh.
Taguchi:
Players didn't want to lose BP, so they didn't use other characters.
So in the previous title, it was difficult to try out new characters in Rank Match.
So now its become easier to try out new characters in SSFIV?
Shiozaki:
Yes, but for practice I recommend the new Endless Battle mode (laughs). Another new feature is that if you gain a win streak in Rank Match, your replay will be uploaded as a NEW REPLAY to the Replay Channel. It's a little similar to the replay upload in Championship Mode from the last game. If two people with a 2 game win streak fight, the winner will be able to upload a replay. So it gives you something to aim for even if you are using an unfamiliar character.
You should be able to crank out 3 wins!
Shiozaki:
Its already a serious battle, but this kind of feeling only makes it more intense. Rank Match is for those who are serious about the grind, and the other modes allow for more casual fun!
Speaking of network match, a lot of people want blind character select…
Shiozaki:
Following up with the feeling of recreating the arcade experience in the last game, we made it non-blind select. Since in the arcade, you know who you're going to fight. But after the game went on sale, we got a lot of feedback about this, and then trying it out for myself I got a better appreciation for fighting someone you can't see over a network. So this time around we've made things blind select.
For all modes?
Shiozaki:
Yes, all modes. All of em. No matter which mode, you won't be able to see their pick! We even killed the cursor movement sound!
Cursor movement sound?
Tsukamoto:
When you move the character select cursor, it makes a chime sound. It seems that there were people who could figure out who their opponent picked just by the number of cursor sound movements. … However, leaving the sound in would have left for some interesting psychological battles (laughs)!
Taguchi:
Like constantly making cursor sounds during the select (laughs).
Are there any other new features in Network Mode?
Taguchi:
You can leave a comment as you enter a lobby!
Azrael's note: Looks like a preset screen - some of the options are, "Let's have a nice fight", "I can do voice chat", "I can't do voice chat", "I'll let my fists do the talking", "No need to hold back!", "Please hold back", etc.)
Yes, it's a pre-selected comment system, so before the fight you can communicate a bit with your opponent.
This was also a fairly big request wasn't it?
Shiozaki:
That's right. Since there are people who would abuse it, we couldn't make it a free system, so sorry about that. But to make up for it we're adding lots of preset comments. Mostly positive stuff.
Taguchi:
We're making lots of them, so I hope everyone uses it!
Tsukamoto:
We covered a lot of topics today! You may have seen the "Replay Channel" come up a few times, so next week I'd like to cover that more in-depth, so I hope you are all looking forward to it. Be sure to come back next week!
Posted by mr. tran on November 9, 2009 at 11:25 p.m. #1
good stuff, i am first
Posted by Stone on November 9, 2009 at 11:30 p.m. #2
The game goes better and better..Juhu!!
Posted by wow on November 9, 2009 at 11:36 p.m. #3
this new stuff all seems so good, much more tought through than the vannila version
Posted by prff on November 9, 2009 at 11:44 p.m. #4
"Working to "preserve" the quality of the netcode from SFIV even with spectators."
facepalm
Posted by Kc on November 9, 2009 at 11:51 p.m. #5
I don't want them to preserve that horrible net code from the first one. I want them to upgrade it.
Posted by Stone on November 9, 2009 at 11:55 p.m. #6
thats right...the first one laggs every time...I have a Internet connection with 3mb per second... I hope this will be better in the next version
Posted by kc on November 10, 2009 at 12:07 a.m. #7
It's not only the lag, once in awhile I can't even find a single player or I would have a player show up everytime that I cannot connect to and I know there are alot of players out there.
Posted by moo on November 10, 2009 at 12:08 a.m. #8
you guys are asking for a little too much. its true that the previous net code is bad. but i'll settle for that if we can have all these bonuses, but I doubt that. a net game with 4 v 4 and supporting spectators is gonna be rough. I'll be praying that i could still play like the current way I am now. Just telling you guys now, be prepared to get frustrated, at the same time, don't expect too much. you're kinda asking for the cake and eating it.
Posted by kara facepalm on November 10, 2009 at 12:10 a.m. #9
Working to "preserve" the quality of the netcode from SFIV even with spectators.
Posted by dslkfjsdlk on November 10, 2009 at 12:11 a.m. #10
fix sh1tty netcode please.
Posted by J on November 10, 2009 at 12:11 a.m. #11
The SFIV netcode is fine. It of course be improved but it's the best 3D fighting game netcode ever created. If they intend to have spectator mode that's going to effect the match's lag no doubt.
For them to try and have spectator mode and keep the current code the way it is now would be great.
I think too many people expect a lag free experience which will just never be the case until (Atleast for the U.S.) we get a more unified and faster internet network across the country.
I'm sure they are going to improve it as much as possible but I wouldn't expect some magic lag free matches in this next game. You're going to get lag. Lag spikes, distance between competitors will all factor in. To expect something as good as that is delusional
Posted by horrible netcode on November 10, 2009 at 12:14 a.m. #12
not as horrible as it was inconsistent
Posted by AJ on November 10, 2009 at 12:16 a.m. #13
I'm hoping the replay thing is alot easier to obtain then the system we have now.
Posted by sx on November 10, 2009 at 12:27 a.m. #14
I hope they don't leave the championship mode out!
Posted by Stone on November 10, 2009 at 12:30 a.m. #15
I hope I won´t lost my championchip point´s
Posted by zukuu on November 10, 2009 at 12:33 a.m. #16
thex should use the tekken 6 netcode, cuz it'S so awzum and lag free.... (biggest irony in my life lol)
Posted by Kc on November 10, 2009 at 12:36 a.m. #17
I don't see how they are anything great with the modes if we have lag like what we are having now. I would at least hope they can have better showing of the players ping especially in game, instead of having that 5 bar that doesn't even have accurate readings.
Posted by Oh no... on November 10, 2009 at 12:38 a.m. #18
It sounds like theyre not improving the netcode. I'll still buy the game, but that is a monstrous disappointment if they don't.
Posted by Minphesto on November 10, 2009 at 12:42 a.m. #19
thumbs up for the BP/PP
Posted by susu2k on November 10, 2009 at 12:47 a.m. #20
Posted by Kc on November 9, 2009 at 11:51 p.m. #5
I don't want them to preserve that horrible net code from the first one. I want them to upgrade it.
go play over kaillera or ggpo and see if its better >( you obviously think there are no limitations with latency... do you think capcom can solve network latency? this would be paranormal...
Posted by fightclub on November 10, 2009 at 12:48 a.m. #21
I wonder if I get to keep my gp or if everyone starts at 0 again?
Posted by MickeyD on November 10, 2009 at 12:59 a.m. #22
Awesome translation Azrael! Thank you for the hardwork. I too hope that they improve the netcode...I think it's important for us to really show that we as a community want SSF4 GGPO certified.
Posted by Kc on November 10, 2009 at 1 a.m. #23
@susk2k Did I ever say I wanted a perfect lag free net code? no doubt latency are always not perfect. But I know SF4 online can be better than what it is.
Posted by Smorgasboard on November 10, 2009 at 1:02 a.m. #24
you probably have to start over again because all the characters have been rebalanced and system related changes.
Posted by @KC on November 10, 2009 at 1:11 a.m. #25
How do you know? Do you have inside knowledge on how SSF4 netcode works and also the knowledge on how to improve it? Or are you just comparing it to another game's netcode and arriving at the conclusion that if that other game have less lag, then SSF4 should be able to also?
Posted by @ #25 on November 10, 2009 at 1:21 a.m. #26
So your saying the net code can't get any better than what it is?.
Posted by Jaf on November 10, 2009 at 1:29 a.m. #27
Imagine if they had a custom character select, where you and your opponent agree to block out certain characters so neither get to use them, combined with the blind and soundless select
Posted by Hello? GGPO!! on November 10, 2009 at 1:39 a.m. #28
People saying that netcode has limitations because of the current infrastructure of the USA don't know what they're talking about. With a decent connection to GGPO you can play anyone on your coast with virtually NO lag. Honestly I've played people all the way in France with almost no lag. Heck even if you play someone in Japan (other side of the world) it's still slightly better then a connection on sf4.
I'm suspicious that Japan developers will always suck at netcode because they test everything in Japan where distances are soooo small that even a lousy netcode seems to work very good. This is what happened to Tekken and King of Fighters. They just refuse to test their netcodes in other countries and continents. Don't ask me how Blazblue got it so right.
Unfortunately they will never use GGPO because it's an American system and they would consider it a disgrace to come to Americans for help.
Posted by ¿? on November 10, 2009 at 1:42 a.m. #29
I dunno, I fight people from all over the continent here, even some from other places, with great results. Even tight windows work incredibly well most of the time -- though it can be frustrating when you eventually lose a match because none of your reversals worked, and you can't even resort to mashing DPs like the shotos.
I've never tried the acclaimed BlazBlue online matches to see how it fares better than SFIV, but considering my experience with controlled matches (playing with friends), I seriously doubt it could be any better. For random matches, I suspect they simply hide the high-latency opponents better (solution in SFIV: play through arcade requests, set to favor reliability), but that's just a theory. I want to try it next time I visit a friend who owns it.
Posted by smexymillz on November 10, 2009 at 1:58 a.m. #30
cant wait for this but until then its call of duty :)taking a break from g1 sakura madness
Posted by J on November 10, 2009 at 2:16 a.m. #31
"Unfortunately they will never use GGPO because it's an American system and they would consider it a disgrace to come to Americans for help."
That is so ridiculous and dumb. Seth Killian has already stated in an interview that Capcom has talked to and are friends with the GGPO guy. While I doubt they will use GGPO since it is designed around low graphic intensive 2D fighters they could easily use some of the methods it imploys.
Using GGPO for a new 3d Title would be such a hassle. It runs a complete copy of each game for each player. This seems fine when you are running decade old games that require little effort but a 3D title with interactive backgrounds and all that other garbage would be nigh impossible.
That's why GGPO doesn't currently support any 3D games at all. Even older ones.
Posted by That guys dumb. on November 10, 2009 at 2:19 a.m. #32
Not to mention that Seth Killian, an American has been instrumental through out both SFIV and SSFIV development.
You really think the Japanese are so backwards that they wouldn't want to make the best product just because it requires help from Americans?
You are so incredibly delusional.
Posted by lol wut on November 10, 2009 at 2:46 a.m. #33
"The SFIV netcode is fine. It of course be improved but it's the best 3D fighting game netcode ever created."
"This seems fine when you are running decade old games that require little effort but a 3D title with interactive backgrounds and all that other garbage would be nigh impossible."
No. Just... no.
Posted by Hello? GGPO!! on November 10, 2009 at 2:55 a.m. #34
Ok a few answers to some of the critical comments of my remarks.
1st. If you think sf4 has a good netcode then you are a beginner to intermediate player. The netcode is great to learn the basics and can seem that it is sufficient until you start reaching a higher level. Last minute anti airs and walk forward block on reaction is just not possible on any sf4 connection. High level play breaks down. GGPO and Blazblue do not have this problem. Seriously ask any tournament player if high level play is possible on sf4 netcode.
2nd. Seth Killian claimed that HE(not Capcom)talks to and is a friend of "the GGPO guy"(Ponder).As much as I like Seth Killian he is the damn PR guy and has nothing to do with the game development in Japan. If you asked Ono (producer) who Seth Killian is he probably wouldn't know. When I see the CAPCOM JAPAN blog mention anything at all about improved netcode or ggpo THEN I will believe it.
3d. Ponder ("the ggpo guy") has stated many times that Japan is full of crap saying that ggpo can't run sf4 or any modern game as all ggpo really needs is the user inputs NOT the whole game.
4th.Yes the Japanese are so backwards (translation: over proud)that they won't make the best product just because it requires help from Americans. NO Japanese developed game has EVER had net code on par with the current American offerings. American developed games (fps crap) stopped using Input latency (sf4 system) since Quakeworld in the late nineties. Japan will NOT call in Ponder or any other American network engineer to help them out.
5th.These new modes will be great fun for casual play and people just learning but all serious players better get ready to pack their sticks and continue visiting their local tourney scene for real play.
Posted by Chastise on November 10, 2009 at 3:41 a.m. #35
@11 No, you're so dead wrong. Obviously you never tried playing anything over GGPO or tried Blazblue online. Both are far superior to SFIV and Blazblue already has lobbies, spectator mode, etc. etc.
Posted by jago74gr on November 10, 2009 at 3:53 a.m. #36
I gotta agree with the whole net code thing. You can't have say 16 player matches in CoD that feel flawless and not be able to get a fighting game with just 2 players to work properly. Capcom just suck at it, that's all.
All these comments have made me want to import Blazblue at least...
Posted by @ #34 on November 10, 2009 at 4:36 a.m. #37
Totally agree, When I first started SF4, online was fun and all as casual play. But now, it's frustrating at high level. Can't block or DP on reaction, teching a throw is even more difficult. It just messes up your whole game, because the frame rates get all mixed up.
Posted by Hiroshima on November 10, 2009 at 5:07 a.m. #38
I hope these smelly japs won't screw up this time.
Posted by by the way on November 10, 2009 at 5:09 a.m. #39
this "GGPO guy" is Ponder: co-founder of Shoryuken.com and Evo (along with his brother, inkblot).
i trust his words over anyone (he says GGPO works with a decent 3D engine). he's done a lot for the community all these years.
Posted by Crappy Internet in USA on November 10, 2009 at 5:29 a.m. #40
netcode in SF4 is beautiful.
we play opponents thousands of miles away and it is more or less the same as playing on the arcade.
admittedly some of the links are harder, but pulling those off consistently during local play is touch and go anyway.
good work, capcom. keep it up.
maybe we can convince a giant company to build a fibre optid network right through the united states for free. :D
instead of waiting for another 50 years...
Posted by Crying_inside on November 10, 2009 at 5:34 a.m. #41
"Working to "preserve" the quality of the netcode"
Quality.. ?... where ?
Posted by juxtapose on November 10, 2009 at 5:51 a.m. #42
@16: Do you know why irony means?
They weren't kidding when they said this game was going to be bigger than a standard SF upgrade. I would have no problem paying full price for this game, so the fact that it's discounted is even better. Now all we need is for them to confirm a PC version and we're all set.
Posted by Chastise on November 10, 2009 at 5:51 a.m. #43
@40 You must be trolling, either that or your game consists of mashing SRK, j.RH, c.RH.
Posted by KStretch on November 10, 2009 at 6:05 a.m. #44
PC version please.
Posted by Elipsis on November 10, 2009 at 6:29 a.m. #45
For the love of christ... LOCAL REPLAY SAVE.
I'm talking about the ability to save a match from a local versus mode to your hard drive without having to upload it anywhere. Please? We had this in SFIII.
Posted by allybattles on November 10, 2009 at 7 a.m. #46
i can't complain about anything they've revealed so far, these are all complaints i had about online play in sf4. let's just hope they come through with spectators not affecting speeds. they seemed to handle it fairly well with hdr, and i'm hoping it wouldn't be too different with sf4.
Posted by allybattles on November 10, 2009 at 7:04 a.m. #47
#11 - i don't really think sf4 is a 3d fighting game. as far as i know, network play just consists of sending the other player's inputs. in this respect sf4 should be practically the same as any 2d fighter.
the graphics are 3d, but that's all created locally.
Posted by Nyoronoru on November 10, 2009 at 7:06 a.m. #48
Everything is great... except the replays.
Can I save a replay of any match I play? Like Blazblue?
Posted by Homicide on November 10, 2009 at 7:27 a.m. #49
i like the fact that in rakned battles you have 2 different types of points, BP/PP it is like the japanese arcade mode also after 3 straight wins u can upload a replay which is nice! im bringing my bison to the party in the team battles.
Posted by Jaf on November 10, 2009 at 8:27 a.m. #50
True, I like how the BP/PP system lets you know who someones main is, and how it also lets you know if a player is trying a new character out and experimenting with the game to the fullest
Posted by Hamalope on November 10, 2009 at 8:55 a.m. #51
I really hope the replay after 3 straight wins isn't the only replay option. I understand there's limited space on capcom's servers for replays, but I should be able to save a replay of any fight to my own hard drive and share it with friends.
Besides, who's to say that specific fight is worthy of a replay? You could have two awesome fights and then a really scrappy win in the third fight, and that's the only one you get a chance to replay.
Also, wouldn't it be much more useful to be able to save and watch your losses and figure out what went wrong?
Posted by bossman on November 10, 2009 at 9:02 a.m. #52
sf4 online is ok for casual play but at high level play it sucks! lag just destroyes the frame data! i have to drive to my friends house 2am because he beats me online and then rings my phone laughing saying 'yeah!!!' lol then when i get to his... its a different story! he sits and cries! he loves online play! but he's a certified scrub!
all i want is sf4 with solid online play! and i had my hopes on ssf4 doing just that... now im a little worried!
my guess is that the online features are for casual players and for those who want to take things seriously you gotta hit the tourneys and arcades!
daigo said in a interview that he only uses his console for training mode lol that sucks!!!!!
ima family man and have not got the skills for tourney play i just want to play online against my friends with no compliants.
Posted by UUUGH! on November 10, 2009 at 9:08 a.m. #53
WHY can't we just have local replay saves for ANY match?!?
I don't give a crap if they're uploaded online where no one is going to see them anyways. I just want to be able to save them for my own review and possibly to show to friends. Why do I care if some random match is ranked 493rd for most CP earned from RANDOMLY CHOSEN OPPONENTS??? AAAAAAAHHH!
Posted by mofo on November 10, 2009 at 9:14 a.m. #54
i want better netcodes, makoto, new costumes, new stages
and a new madcatz stick for ssf4
and local replay save !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by Low Quality UK on November 10, 2009 at 9:16 a.m. #55
I like the idea of character specific rankings ...... Hope they have stuff like character specific leaderboards ..... it will encourage those to work as hard as they can with their main .... or play as well as they can with everyone ... heh
Posted by Soap on November 10, 2009 at 9:22 a.m. #56
Blazblue sucks massive monkey balls!!
Posted by @#34 on November 10, 2009 at 9:35 a.m. #57
Okay, time to make assumptions!
> 1st. If you think sf4 has a good netcode then you are a beginner to intermediate player. The netcode is great to learn the basics and can seem that it is sufficient until you start reaching a higher level.
Yup. "If u dont agree with me ur a nub lol". If you think it's not possible to have decent matches then you just have never seen an actually good connection. That's not to say every single match with whatever opponent is good, but it's perfectly possible to go against people hundreds of miles apart. Not as good as playing offline, obviously, but certainly no worse than GGPO, where I used to play with exactly the same guys.
Posted by LOL on November 10, 2009 at 9:58 a.m. #58
@Posted by Stone on November 9, 2009 at 11:55 p.m. #6
thats right...the first one laggs every time...I have a Internet connection with 3mb per second... I hope this will be better in the next version
..............................................................
3mb? get at least 10MB. 3MB of internet wont run at 3 its more like 1.5 MB. and getting 10 MB runs more like 5 MB.
I use fiber optics so it doesn't matter but damn dont brag about 3 MB lol <<<<< 3MB is like what a cavemen can do.
Posted by hurr on November 10, 2009 at 10:01 a.m. #59
If you don't like the netcode because you are a tournament player that often makes it in the top 8 at every large tournament you go to and value every match like it was your last, then maybe you do what the rest of your group does. Play with you peers in person.
If you are just starting to get decent at SF and find it very difficult to do links online but lack all of the professional elements listed above then you either need to start winning the big tournaments because you are such a big deal or learn how to have fun like a lot of other people.
If you are someone having fun with friends online and lost due to lag then you should be able to laugh it off and trade small insults. Thats what men have been doing for years.
SF4's netcode is by no means a master piece. GGPO is better, but even GGPO can screw you over really hard with lag. The best isn't perfect, so why do we expect something else to be? Lag will exist online and we just have to deal with it and take the small improvements over time.
rant over please deposit all insults and outrageous misinformed assumptions below.
Posted by Danjitsu on November 10, 2009 at 10:12 a.m. #60
I hope they make it compulsory for PS3 users to install the game, It speeded up pre match loading screens and Im sure it helped with lag.
It only took like 5 mins so it's not really a big deal just go make a cuppa n it's done!
Posted by brent on November 10, 2009 at 10:28 a.m. #61
Yeah. The online should just be like Blazblue.
Posted by not zsmurf on November 10, 2009 at 10:50 a.m. #62
The net code itself isn't all that bad for SF4 but it can be improved. The problem also lies with the interpretation of the said lag between players. The lag is indicated with 5 bars showing its connection compatibility with other players.
They need to replace or add on the actual ping between the players. I've had some matches where playing a person with 3 bars was acceptable, and another time where it was unbearable to play. It's just too unpredictable and it can ruin the experience for the players
It's a small change but it'll definitely help out ween the terrible connections with the O.K ones.
Posted by OnlineInternetExpertMan on November 10, 2009 at 11:07 a.m. #63
I am an Online Internet Expert Man and I state that lag is a goverment cover-up designed to keep us in our respective classes. Lag is scheduled to dissapear in 2014 on April 17th in the Great Lag Elimination Day. On this day all of the world will capture Lag using Old Hot Dogs and cardboard boxes. Then using the power of the newly completed International Space Station we will send all lag into the sun, and you can watch it with your very own cardboard pin-hole box.
Posted by THTB on November 10, 2009 at 11:16 a.m. #64
Hmm...I'm curious as to whether Endless Battle is just a quarter mode with a fancy title or is not quite like that.
The Team Battle mode sounds fun, though. Hopefully, they implement the option to do Team Battles with an invited party and you search for other parties.
Posted by Garuda on November 10, 2009 at 12:01 p.m. #65
DAAAAMN IT!!!
i used to count the number of cursor "dings" to figure out if they were picking Ryu or Sagat... Damn it. And I'm not joking.
Posted by Truth on November 10, 2009 at 12:13 p.m. #66
@63 I lol'ed.
Posted by Adjacent on November 10, 2009 at 12:33 p.m. #67
They should have an option to show the kind of controller you use, like Arcade stick or pad.
Posted by Garuda on November 10, 2009 at 12:39 p.m. #68
Why would they have that, Adjacent?
Do you want to justify your losses because you play Pad?
Do you want to show off because you have a stick?
Vice-versa?
Posted by @34 on November 10, 2009 at 12:45 p.m. #69
Online is not representative of higher-level play anyways.
Posted by @69 on November 10, 2009 at 12:53 p.m. #70
that's because the netcode sucks. It's the whole reason why people have been trying to get GGPO in sf4 for so long
Posted by classy on November 10, 2009 at 1:20 p.m. #71
i wouldn't even use the stupid arcade request mode, if finding a player was easier "unable to play" stupid crap... capcom get ur crap together and learn to do online
arcade request and lobbies dont go togehter? how the frak is that?
Posted by WHAT IS THIS on November 10, 2009 at 2:03 p.m. #72
WHAT IS NETCODE?
is it like a series tubes?
Posted by cursor movement sound on November 10, 2009 at 2:12 p.m. #73
LOL....i can almost always guess what character my opponent picks by listening to the cursor. no movement? Ryu. one or two? Ken/Akuma/Gouken. a few more: Balrog. hella: Sakura/Vega/Gen....haha
Posted by netcode the problems on November 10, 2009 at 2:26 p.m. #74
all this time i thought it was me who play SF4 wireless from my router sharing more than 3 computers. god damn netcode should fix it.
Posted by Danjitsu on November 10, 2009 at 2:37 p.m. #75
It makes no difference 90% of the people only play as Ryu & Sagat anyway.
Posted by chickenwings on November 10, 2009 at 2:57 p.m. #76
@danijitsu
EXACTLY. We will have something like 30 plus characters in the game and out of a 100 matchs 40 of them will be ryu, 20 will be ken, 30 will be sagat and the rest will be other LOL.
Posted by Garuda on November 10, 2009 at 3:06 p.m. #77
chickenwings... does that mean that 10 will be Balrog? Damn.
Posted by timetogetpaid on November 10, 2009 at 3:35 p.m. #78
I really dont understand all the bitching thats going on. ALL THIS IS GREAT NEWS!! When have you ever seen GGPO netcode on any RECENT 3d or somewhat 3d (SFIV) fighting games with modern graphics? NEVER!!!dont you think that there is a good reason for this you dicks? IT DOESNT WORK OUT. Ss for those fags that say omg high level play is so impossible online omg i cant do a reversal dp out of everything omg why is my 2 frame link not working everysingle time!?! it cant be because im not doing it right 50 out of 50 times. WHY dont you try playing people with either 4 or 5 bars exclusively, its fine. Im a decent player, not the best but i do compete with some of the best and i go to tournaments on a regular basis. if you really hate this game so much go back to playing sf2 or something ...even if they did incorporate ggpo and add everything to the game u wanted to, you would still find a reason to bitch about it
Posted by PSN Greylynx on November 10, 2009 at 3:37 p.m. #79
"working to preserve quality of speed/gameplay" I think that's what they are meaning to say you got to remember this is not a professional translation this is a translation of a fan who might not know the meaning of what they mean to say just what they did say.
@12
you're right
Posted by PSN Greylynx on November 10, 2009 at 3:40 p.m. #80
I love messing with people using cursor motion sound and knew how to read it most of the time. They'd know I'd start with ryu but I know a way to get Abel in 3 to 4 moves so i know that would throw them off. and know most people who choose sagat and start off with abel know how to select him in one move but will atleast do two or three to throw you off but some times just one.
Posted by bossman on November 10, 2009 at 4:11 p.m. #81
ryu (me) vs sagat (friend)
online:
i loose 95% of air hits (when both players jump in with an attack)
walking forward and ducking high tiger shots i get hit
walking forward and blocking low tiger shots i get hit
i c.hp as an anti air and i get hit
offline with same friend
i win more or less every air attack
no problems ducking or blocking tiger shots
c.hp works all the time as a quick response anti air
some matches i play the lag is alright but this one match up does my head in its left me feeling like online play is very iffy
if you enjoy online play then your a lucky bastrd! i wish i could say the same playing g1 online can be very very fustrating! lol i would say sometimes it depends on the char you and the other person select??? i find using dictator sagat balrog aint that bad online... ryu against sagat can be a bit iffy gief is a online bastrd lol
Posted by Shredelicious on November 10, 2009 at 4:11 p.m. #82
So are the points resetting for everyone?
And if not...are we really switching back to BP when the majority of us have been racking up GP since the patch? o_0
Can anyone clear this up?
Posted by Focusflute on November 10, 2009 at 4:23 p.m. #83
I hope that Team Battles are also available OFFLINE so when you have a group of friends together you can do that. Also this would make live TEAM TOURNAMENTS much easier.
Posted by a on November 10, 2009 at 4:24 p.m. #84
Preserve the crappy quality of netcode?
*heart sinks*
Posted by Dafro1989 on November 10, 2009 at 4:33 p.m. #85
If SSFIV can have BalzBlue quality netcode, then this game will dominate all. If it doesn't... well, it'll be a damn shame, as BlazBlue's netcode is the epitome of what netcode should be.
Posted by BP on November 10, 2009 at 4:45 p.m. #86
Of course points are resetting. It's a different game!
Posted by chickenwings on November 10, 2009 at 5:19 p.m. #87
@garuda
LOL i didnt think about it, but yea. THat sounds about right. I mean i have aout 2k matchs and i have fought 800 ryus, so u do the math LOL.
Posted by deaf and dumb on November 10, 2009 at 5:34 p.m. #88
stop blaming your crappy usa internet on other things.
if your game lags,take it up with your provider.
and yes, having an option to display numerical ping in milliseconds is a great idea.
Posted by funk1 on November 10, 2009 at 5:43 p.m. #89
SSF4 needs GGPO, the talk of "preserving quality" is very disappointing and just goes to show that they've not listened to the opinions of the world outside of Japan about netcode.
People who think SF4s netcode is good need to wonder why serious players do not play on it, or if they do its on rare occassions, and if you can't figure it out, its because the netplay is inconsistent, messes with your offline timing, and as a whole may influence your play style in a negative way.
GGPO isn't like this at all, its consistent, for the most part lagless, and its fairly well known that quite a few competitive players have used it and continue to use it, Kuroda playing 3S on GGPO is probably the most popular example of a serious player playing over the internet sometimes.
Posted by deaf and dumb on November 10, 2009 at 6:15 p.m. #90
they've listened to plenty around the world.
just not the usa exclusively.
Posted by PolarisJunkie on November 10, 2009 at 6:22 p.m. #91
You people have to realize that this article was intended for Japanese eyes only and that supposedly the netcode for SF4 there was completley fine since its such a small area. This article wasn't meant for U.S. eyes so hopefully that online play will be an issue when porting it.
Posted by preserve on November 10, 2009 at 6:31 p.m. #92
i don't like the word "preserve" the netcode isn't great anyway... i want it better... not the same or slightly worse -.... .... but I do like that they are doing the BP/PP this time around. Not that I play ranked anyway but still..lol. and @ ^^ thats a good point. I'll hope you are right and the netcode does get a buff... I couldn't care less if vega gets a buff. BUFF THE DAMN NETCODE!!
Posted by David I. on November 10, 2009 at 6:32 p.m. #93
Seth Killian posted this over @ Capcom-unity:
"Lol. The "preserving" the netcode stuff is misleading translation at its finest, not something significant (why is it in quotes at all?)
What the team is referring to is simply that it can get difficult to sync all the spectators with the competing players themselves, in terms of image AND voice. Basically the issue they are struggling with is that sometimes the spectators will be watching at slightly different speeds, so that if I'm across the country and watching a few frames behind my friend, I might still hear him cheering his buddy in victory before the final blow has landed for me. It's not a major issue, applies only to spectating, and is still in development. Geez!"
There's still hope on the horizon, guys.
Posted by japs are scum on November 10, 2009 at 7:21 p.m. #94
japs are lousy developers. All they can do is trying too hard to be american. I've been living in japan for 3 years as a student. I can't wait to be back in my home country. The japs are extremely xenophobic, very racist. Especially against Koreans.
Posted by Suggestion on November 10, 2009 at 7:24 p.m. #95
Establish quota limits. on how many times you use the same character online. Ryu/Ken/Sagat faggots think they are good because they pick those characters all the time.
Posted by CAPSLOCK FIGHTER III: CRUISIN' on November 10, 2009 at 7:41 p.m. #96
ALL YOU PEOPLE COMPLAINING ABOUT NETCODE DON'T KNOW NETCODE.
BANDWAGGON G-G-G-GEEPEYO PATRIOTS
BUY A YELLOW MAGNET RIBBON AND PUT IT ON YOUR PS3/XBIX/PC3P0
"SUPPORT OUR NETCODE"
"THESE NETWORKS DON'T RUN"
"911SEC LAG NEVER 4GET"
Posted by geez on November 10, 2009 at 7:58 p.m. #97
Blazblue online becomes GARBAGE as soon as more than 2 people join a lobby. Some of you people don't know what you're talking about.
Posted by Ezekiel on November 10, 2009 at 8:44 p.m. #98
Lol at people crying over netcode, any serious player, plays offline, however, putting in GGPO like netcode in SF4, isn't easy as people put it out to be.
Posted by stephen Ebiya on November 10, 2009 at 9:04 p.m. #99
this is great news for me :D
Posted by odds and ends on November 10, 2009 at 9:13 p.m. #100
absolutely great news. :)
anyone with an inkling of network knowledge and experience will know that games are pretty good with connections at around 100ms, which is pretty common PAL territories.
rock on, capcom :)
Posted by @ Ezekiel on November 10, 2009 at 9:57 p.m. #101
Its true.. its better to go play offline. I go to arcades and play, but these days.. there arent any good ones. The one i go too.. is about 30 mins away. Cause my friends live near it.
For some ppl. Playing online is the best thing they can do. Cause they might not have arcades where they live. Even playing with your friends has its limits. You need a variety of ppl. So that you can get better.
Posted by Ignorant on November 10, 2009 at 10:12 p.m. #102
LOOOOOUD NOISESSSSSSS
Posted by Firegod on November 10, 2009 at 10:32 p.m. #103
more news! *cries*
Posted by DR Jam on November 11, 2009 at 12:46 a.m. #104
thanks for the bullet points. Those updates got me smiling, especially the endless battle mode, I remember asking for it, basically a training online, back when SF4 was close to release. I feel like Capcom read my blog, since I posted it on capcom-unity. Great stuff.
Posted by Jay on November 11, 2009 at 1:01 a.m. #105
Cmon ya ppl is sooo stupid if ya is sooo good at networkin just grab ur wallet and send capcom a 5000 dollars check plus the way to do it easy and they will fix up the game, ya nikkas beastin sooo much over a 40 dollars game just dont buy it!!!!! freakin 17 years old thats why they dont listen that much to everybody and need to do like 15 street fighters!!! ya demand so much and dont even spend 150 on tha tournament stick ohhh plz!!!!! just let capcom search for some upgrading in here get somethin usefull!!!!! thumbs up capcom ya handlind bussiness
Posted by Grisvalp on November 11, 2009 at 1:56 a.m. #106
Just wanted to point out that:
Originally Posted by s-kill
"and to add to what has already been said, yes, you CAN record and save your matches at will."
So I GUESS you'll be able to save your Versus Matches as well as others if you would want it.
Posted by @ 105 on November 11, 2009 at 1:58 a.m. #107
this is what English has you? Ignant, just ignant
Posted by lol on November 11, 2009 at 7:36 a.m. #108
@Posted by netcode the problems on November 10, 2009 at 2:26 p.m. #74
all this time i thought it was me who play SF4 wireless from my router sharing more than 3 computers. god damn netcode should fix it.
i agree netcode is stupid. i thought it was my wireless router also. but i guess its not.
Posted by tahtatah on November 11, 2009 at 11:33 a.m. #109
yeee
Posted by amazing on November 11, 2009 at 11:53 a.m. #110
all this and at a cheaper price... AMAZING : )
Posted by sf4 net code not tat bad on November 16, 2009 at 6:25 a.m. #111
if both players has eg.10mb connection with no internet activity its good.u will c yellow bars connection.both side move more or less same speed.if u have 10 meg connecton and other as 3 meg and is not far from u u will still c yellow bars.but will get input delay on your side.and he will be doing his moves slightly before u also if he has pc runninig u will be slow.but if 10meg is using 2 pc and playing 3 meg will c 2or3 bars with both sides moveing slitlily slower and inputs slow.if 10 meg is playin a lag switch f@g.then will be getting hit by 90%of his moves while 98% of ur moves will be bolcked or miss.but if 10meg beats lag f@g then he will get hate mail cos lag f@g sucks.ha ha
my connection 10 meg connection highest tested 9.5 download and somethiung upload.average 4.5 download and something upload.i host matches in g1.and get people entering my lobby like me kung fu panda fighting to get the last dumpling.90% of players lagging or playing with a poor mans connection or u no wat.ssf4 looking good.jus hope they keep 1 frame links cos i love it when u show them a move that hard ly gets seen online and the player suddenly stops and u know tat the player on other side say.Holy s;;t wat was tat.ten sudden lag spike.
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