5:38 p.m.
Seth talks about adjusting to a joystick for pad users
Seth Killian popped up over on the Unity Boards to explain why he feels like a joystick is a superior device to a pad for fighting games.
I bought a Madz Catz Tournament Edition Stick and I don't like it.
Seth: Overall, whatever works for you, works for you. If you try a stick and are always just full of fail, by all means play on a pad.
That said, the vast majority of pros, both young and old alike, prefer sticks, as do I. Here's why:
1. Why is it better than using a regular controller?
Seth: Precision counts for a lot in fighters. Of course sniping seems "precise" in Halo, but fighters really take things to another level, and top-level play requires you to routinely hit 1/60th of a second stuff. In fighters, this usually means hitting very particular directions is key. You can't just hit "right," or "mostly right", you need to hit the dead accurate down/towards diagonal or risk disaster. Sticks are perfect for this, with very clearly defined edges, corners, and a lot of tactile feedback that let you know exactly where you're at at all times.
2. Will I eventually get used to a joystick?
Seth: Probably. Most do after a few weeks, but if for whatever reason you hate it, you aren't required to torture yourself forever.
3. I tried using my XBox 360 controller and it felt better and I felt more in control with it rather that my FightStick. Why is that?
Seth: Probably a question of familiarity. A stick is a little like a high-performance automobile. When you're running flat out, it feels great and responsive like nothing else. If you've only ever driven a regular car before, however, driving a high-end racer can feel uncomfortable and awkward.
4. I'm unhappy with it. Should i give it a few days before i sell it on CraigsList?
Seth: You're unhappy probably because of the issues you already mentioned. If they persist, listen to your fingers and "stick" with what you like.
5. How long does it take to get used to a FightStick?
Seth: I grew up on joysticks, but I did actually make the transition from American-style to Japanese style for the FightStick (I think Japanese style is ultimately better -- more responsive, sensitive, but different). It took me about 3-4 weeks until I felt equally comfortable. I did have a lot of experience on sticks already, but my game is more advanced than many other players, so even though I had a headstart in the race, my finish line of feeling comfortable was also further away. Or something.
6. And most importantly... How does using a stick improve your game?
Seth: See #1 again. In the opinion of most top players, a good joystick is vastly more precise than standard pads. Of course you can do the same things on a pad that you can do on a stick, but it's easier to do them on a stick because of the level of tactile feedback. This is exactly analogous to the suspension on fast sportscars. For just driving to the store to buy some Cheerios, it's not necessary, and can even be uncomfortable. For when you're blasting down the track, however, every little bit of additional "feel" makes a huge difference, so you want it tuned for maximum sensitivity.
If you want additional tips on switching from a pad to a joystick, check out this guide.
Posted by #1 on August 4, 2009 at 6:24 p.m. #1
Funny that he repeatedly mentions that the advantage of a stick is precision when good pads also have that. The thing pads do not provide is quick access to all six buttons, even with six face buttons you're still using only your thumb, while on a stick (or keyboard) you can use three or four fingers.
Posted by SF3 --> SF4 on August 4, 2009 at 6:44 p.m. #2
One word: Makoto.
Posted by Nyoronoru on August 4, 2009 at 7:26 p.m. #3
If that Fei Long guy was using a stick he probably would've beaten Gootecks.
Posted by J on August 4, 2009 at 7:39 p.m. #4
Pads are okay for casual play, but ultimately do not allow the necessary precision. That said, I bought a TE Fightstick and didn't like it much either. While one can get used to sticks after a while and I worked hard to do so, the free-spinning and smooth ball top sucks for getting a grip, the quad restrictor plate does no favors for someone adjusting to a stick, and the stick overall felt much too loose and didn't snap readily back to center.
I modified mine with a bat top and adapter, an octagonal restrictor plate and a stretched LS-32 spring in place of the stock one. Now I'm doing much better with the stick. These kinds of modifications turned out not to be as difficult as I thought...for someone who has issues with their Fightstick, it would certainly be easier than selling it and starting fresh with a custom build.
Posted by classy on August 4, 2009 at 8:05 p.m. #5
is it me or pads superior? u have ur 3 punch buttons and 3 kicks mapped to 1 button..
i actually use the analog stick on the xbox controller and think its as precise.. not only that doing a low forward kick to a medium punch hadouken is super simple...
i dont need an arcade stick.. i like the pad way better
Posted by NullCyboorgNinja on August 4, 2009 at 8:48 p.m. #6
Is there a guide for going from keyboard/mouse to joystick?
What if i use my Wiimote via bluetooth and program macro gestures!!! Imagine jumping up for dragon punch.
Add in macros and im a Daigo killa!
Posted by loldotcom on August 4, 2009 at 8:49 p.m. #7
Prepare for a bunch of "ZOMG CONTROLLERS ARE SO GUD!" and "ZOMG YOURE A NUB FOR USING CONTROLLERS" posts.
Posted by T on August 4, 2009 at 9:06 p.m. #8
Its not whats better, its what you prefer. dur
Posted by tom on August 4, 2009 at 9:53 p.m. #9
i dont think pads have turbo :) for those fast linking Low punch into med punch ect.. :) and classy is crazy very crAZY TO SAY
Posted by TOM on August 4, 2009 at 9:53 p.m. #10
THAT xbox controllers are good.
Posted by Truth on August 4, 2009 at 10:19 p.m. #11
Linking combos just doesn't happen on a pad. Sticks buttons are like butter you barely have to push them for them to activate (arcade quality) and microswitches are more accurate as you have a mechanism (the actuator0 hitting them....with pads you are touching the circuit board with your thumb. Joysticks were made for accuracy and agility...your thumb just cant compare. They are fine for all the 67 million FPS that are out there, but just arent as good as a stick. No coincidence the best of the best choose sticks to use.
Posted by Albert Wesker on August 4, 2009 at 10:53 p.m. #12
I remember a guy in Evo 2003 or 2004 placed in the top 8 for SFIII 3S with a pad....tbh, I think there is a lot of hate and rumors about stick play, the idea that people who use sticks are automatically better than pad players, much like women with small breasts are smarter than girls with big breasts....
Posted by Blanka 4 President on August 4, 2009 at 11:02 p.m. #13
Top eight at one tournament means nothing. All players in the top 3 at every major game in Evo use sticks. In Japan everybody uses sticks and they are the best in the world. Playing online, yeah you can do fine with lag and a pad....but sticks ARE superior as ALL the true top players who place consistently use sticks.
Posted by Opinion = fact on August 4, 2009 at 11:13 p.m. #14
"Linking combos just doesn't happen on a pad"
The proper followup to that is "for me". The whole point of the article was pick what is comfortable. Lets keep the one track thinking to a minimum.
Posted by Schmeggma on August 4, 2009 at 11:53 p.m. #15
I think Seth's car analogy was spot on really. If you actually sit down and think about it/listen to the evidence, a stick is technically better for fighters in all the important areas. But the difference really isn't that great, and someone skilled with a pad can easily compete with stick players. The handicap probably increases towards the highest levels of play though.
Posted by sj on August 5, 2009 at 1:09 a.m. #16
Sticks provide much faster play for charge characters because a wrist moves much faster horizontally, vertically and diagonally than a thumb. For shotos it's a matter of personal preference. Combos and FADC-combos are not restricted by using a pad. A stick also gives the true arcade experience, depending on which stick you use.
Posted by classy on August 5, 2009 at 1:23 a.m. #17
well if i can do a double fadc combo into an ultra pretty easily doesn't that count for something?
that stick on the xbox pad is underated.. everyone think the xbox controller sucks cuz they choose to use the d-pad
jwong used a pad to beat 300 people.. and its fine
but i will say viper is hard to use with it.. and charge characters.. i wish they made a square gate stick on the xbox
Posted by sticky on August 5, 2009 at 2:18 a.m. #18
I want to see you play on a pad with Blanka
Posted by weazzybabeeey on August 5, 2009 at 4 a.m. #19
i just won the new zealand tournament with pad, lmfao seth cracks me up the way he just tries to sell his sh1t.
Posted by wezzalious on August 5, 2009 at 4:02 a.m. #20
yeah dats right , NEW ZEALAND BABEEEY
Posted by truth on August 5, 2009 at 5:48 a.m. #21
New Zealand is actually part of our world?
Posted by shichi on August 5, 2009 at 6:07 a.m. #22
@19
Refer to the answer to question #4. If he really wanted to sell his "sh1t" that badly he never would have given the potential buyer a chance to ever doubt a joystick. He admitted it's about preference and familiarity so cry me a river if you can't adjust to a joystick. If you've never tried adjusting to a joystick and persist a standard gamepad is better then you're just too stubborn to know it.
Posted by weazzaldeasal on August 5, 2009 at 6:35 a.m. #23
hes still trying to sell his sh1t, hes saying " oh if your comfortable with that piece of sh1t, inferior control go ahead and play it BUT ON THE OTHER HAND YOU COULD--------"
buy his sh1t,
Posted by SSJ3X on August 5, 2009 at 7:14 a.m. #24
I play on both a pad and a stick, but the pad I use is a logitech pad instead because the buttons are a bit stronger then a PS3 and XBox Pad, and you know you're getting your hits and chains in when you press them.
I have played on the TE stick, and its wonderful, you know you're getting your hits on it when you pressing the buttons and the moves you want come out.
The problem is since there (currently there still is) were no arcades around the city, getting your hands on a stick in the arcade was near impossible for me, and heading out to Gameworks to play is even worse because its far, and the games you want to play are filled to capacity that others are playing them for hours on end. So thats why now I'm comfortable with a pad, though once in awhile I convert back to stick.
Posted by anon on August 5, 2009 at 10:04 a.m. #25
@classy
Dude, Justin Wong played ALL randoms except mike ross at that event and that wasnt even part of the 300, it was all random event goers. ALL of them were using pads so your argument of pad>stick is fail.
Posted by @weazy on August 5, 2009 at 10:31 a.m. #26
@19
Was the tourney full of nubs? lol.
I can say I won a tourney too dude, winning an unknown tournament doesnt mean you proved that a high level pad player would win against a high level stick player or vice versa
Posted by I eat them on August 5, 2009 at 12:34 p.m. #27
Pocky sticks are wonderful.
Posted by Seth on August 5, 2009 at 12:47 p.m. #28
@#14 Ok, try doing Boxer's cJab, cJab, running smash, cShort, Fierce Headbutt, Ultra on a pad and tell us how that works for you.
Thats just a simple combo...Cant do it on a pad. Good luck even doing Gen's FULL air kicks with a pad. If you want to play with a shoto with lag online then yeah using a pad is fine.
Posted by umm.. on August 5, 2009 at 1:20 p.m. #29
I'll admit that I could not for the life of me do headbutt into ultra with Balrog on pad. Then the day my TE stick arrives, I get it on my first try. With EASE.
I've been thrashed by a friend's Abel. He's a stick player but he can play on pad also, and he was doing some ridiculous stuff on pad. It's really just a preference it seems.
Then i have another friend who can play Gen decently well on pad but on stick he's no good.. I can see why with all the 3x punch/kicks u need to hit constantly while doin stuff.. It probably is simpler hitting 1 button 3xpunch or kick..
But whatever.. Most people that play on sticks do it also cause of the arcade experience. For reals.
Posted by classy on August 5, 2009 at 3:01 p.m. #30
i can do balrogs jab jab low kick headbutt ultra... hell i can even do more then that
wtf is wrong with everyone? if u suck like hell at a pad its u not the pad.. i have zero problems with it
Posted by Jordan on August 5, 2009 at 3:57 p.m. #31
get a sega saturn pad with appropriate adapter. nuff said
Posted by sakurafice on August 5, 2009 at 4:40 p.m. #32
@ classy
who said anything about equipment making you better?
if you have a better tennis racquet, it doesn't automatically boost skill, but it HELPS
you've got the best of the best, the only thing holding you back is yourself
sticks ensure optimum environment for learning sf
sure, you can fadc into ultra with a pad, but i doubt at the caliber of top players, of whom have mastered the stick and have their entire hands at they're disposal
got to this site
http://slagcoin.com/joystick/pad.html
Posted by classy on August 5, 2009 at 8:27 p.m. #33
@sakurafice
there aint no dam arcades anymore.. who the hell plays arcade sticks naturally anymore.. everyone who bought one probably had to get acclamated(typo?) to it.. and learn
esp. with kids these days who didn't grow up in the sf2/ alpha phase.. everyone is use to the pad.. theres no way in hell kids these days are natural at the stick
ive taught myself to learn the stick cuz the d-pad sucks balls..
Posted by @ classy on August 6, 2009 at 12:26 p.m. #34
Maybe there aren't any arcades where YOU live at.....so don't go assuming "there aint no dam arcades anymore".
Posted by N1N on August 6, 2009 at 6:46 p.m. #35
This is like debating whether or not to use a baseball bat to play golf, or golf clubs. If you practiced a lot I suppose you could get pretty good playing with a baseball bat, but you'll probably not be as good as somebody using golf clubs.
Street Fighter is a fun game. It was designed from the very beginning to be played in the layout that an arcade stick provides.
You can have fun and be pretty good playing with a controller, but the guy with a stick is going to have the advantage.
It's not a coincidence that the top players all use sticks.
Posted by JamRock on August 6, 2009 at 7:53 p.m. #36
I feel more comfortable on a pad and I main Blanka and I find it easier on a pad than a stick....it's all about preference imo because if you play with a pad u get to know how to work around the so called "limitations"
Posted by ben on August 6, 2009 at 9:10 p.m. #37
The main idea for using sticks is the precision of the stick over a pad, 6 face button pads also exist so the argument for button access is gone. Balrog combos are not hard at all with a pad. Charge motions are the least of your worries with a pad and don't help your argument at all. What you should be naming are things like TK burn kicks with Viper and dive kicks with Cammy since those require going from back to up-forward as quickly as possible while avoiding the other 2 jump inputs, basically precision.
Posted by big stick guy on August 6, 2009 at 9:33 p.m. #38
people who perfer pads are the young ones that haven't even seen someone stick a quarter in a machine before.
Posted by anonymous on August 6, 2009 at 10:15 p.m. #39
TK burn kicks and cannon strikes are easy on a pad for me. So are waterfall kicks and most no 1 frame link combos. Whats hard is doing stuff like Gen's mk to fp hands.
Posted by yea on August 9, 2009 at 4:10 a.m. #40
that ish is hard man, mk hundred hands is soo hard on stupid pad, but the rest is easy, its just that and chun li's links to ex lightning legs
Posted by HellsyHadez on August 14, 2009 at 4:04 p.m. #41
I use both and i switch to MC pad not 360 one when i use Zangief but everyone else i use Tourny stick i do think the gief is far easier with a pad that with a stick but thats just one char
Posted by Valter on August 17, 2009 at 12:40 p.m. #42
Okay Seth, you can drop the act now. You don't know anything about "sniping" in Halo. You are also a dick for not allowing T.Hawk or DeeJay to be included in SFIV.
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