Posted by Tirasoul on September 30, 2009 at 5:57 a.m. #1

thats pretty much close to his movelist.
dont forget his moves from Street Fighter Alpha 3.
Condor move (B,D,DB + P), and his new super move Canyon Splitter (QCFx2 + P) in SFA3.i didnt like so much his Condor move though and i hope for a better new move/moves.
and ofcourse the real names of T.Hawk's movelist are:
Mexican Typhoon (360 + P), Tomahawk Buster (F,D,DF + P), Condor Dive (3P) and his first Super Raging Typhoon (720 + P).
i guess they could rename the moves this time.

Posted by Sephirothclone on September 30, 2009 at 3:10 p.m. #2

T. Hawk was designed to be a more user friendly version of Zangief, due to Gief's move range. His moveset looks about right: a grab, Antiair, Air to ground...yeah, they'll keep him simple I think. Stat wise: Strenght second to Gief, HP and Stun 1500 making him equal to Rufus, priority of the Mexican Tyhpoon...hmmm maybe better than Abel's whirlwind slam, but not as good as SPD...maybe. Tomahawk Buster will have shoryuken properties(of course...)and Condor dive...that thing has alwas been tough to take out before, so it might be his bread and butter move, making it lethal. That Ultra...the strenght on that thing will be equal to UAB, or close to it. Well we have to wait and see.

@ Tirasoul
Thanks for reminding me of the original names. Lol I alwas rremember MT and RT, and sometimes CD, but I forget TB. As for the name changes, I see no reason why to change them...Raging Typhoon is a badass name for his Ultra.

Posted by WDDV on September 30, 2009 at 8:26 p.m. #3

So basicly this guy is a faster Gief? is he faster than Abel?
does anyone know if SSFIV is going to be an independent game or an add on?

Posted by Sephirothclone on September 30, 2009 at 10:49 p.m. #4

@ WDDV

When they introduced Abel in SFIV, I thought the same thing about introducing Hawk in this game...where would he fit? The logical thing would be between Gief and Abel. Like I said, Hawk was designed to be just as powerful as Gief, but be more...Friendly, with some little suprises. Gief's strenght lies in CQC and grabs. In SFII and Alpha, you could easlily time Giefs BF and SPD, and keep pressure on him, so Hawk came in and had more mix up. He really doesn't need the Mexican Typhoon to beat players, cause that Condor Dive sucks opponents in, closing the gab way better than Giefs BF did in the day. For SSFIV, I don't know.

Again, with Abel in the game, I don't quite see Hawk becoming a more user friendly version of Gief. He is, and was designed that way, but Gief is user friendly in SFIV already. Alot of bandwagon people have jumped on the Giefman becuase of his attributes...huh I love Gief, but even I hate him in SFIV.

They'll probably make Hawk just as slow as gief, but his speacials will have great speed and priority to trick players, I think. Abel has great ground rushdown, as does gief, so Hawks CD will be his rushdown move as an air-to-ground way of fighting. Just think Rufus'es diving kick, but much stronger.

Yes, SSFIV will be independent of SFIV, becuase it has different codes written into the the game, so they will be selling it as a disc format. I don't mind, they'll include character bios and moves in it and whatnot.(I like having physical items of what I buy, as oppossed to DLC)

Posted by Based on conjecture on October 1, 2009 at 1:45 a.m. #5

T. Hawk actually did equal or more damage with his throws as I recall and being that SF4 wanted to be like SF2 in many ways it could turn out the same. Sure you have some mobility, but a blocked tomahawk buster = huge punishiment and a blocked tomahawk dive did as well. They were mostly for reaction only. Throwing them out will get you killed a lot faster than throwing out some of Zangief's moves. That is if he is about the same. Also in several videos it shows his EX tomahawk buster going up then down. This could be an extremely safe move if it is quick enough on the way down so you could grab or block. I anticipate him being equal with Zangief in many ways,(stamina/stun/damage output)but he obviously play very differently. Overall a very welcome edition. Also if you boot up HDR his 360 is storm hammer. Names often switch around.

Posted by Takayanagi on October 1, 2009 at 1:48 a.m. #6

So Only 1 Ultra For now or what or does each character can choose between 2 ultras?!

Posted by Based on conjecture on October 1, 2009 at 1:51 a.m. #7

Totally forgot. In many of the videos he does a horizontal flying attack on the ground. That would certainly be a new move if I've ever seen one.

Posted by Luk_Edge on October 1, 2009 at 2:53 a.m. #8

#10, I'm betting that's the EX Condor Dive... (If I recall correctly he was flashing yellow when I saw it... Or maybe I'm remembering it wrong) And that would explain how to use EX Condor Dive, 3xP on the ground :s

Or maybe they'll change the command to 2xP and EX to 3xP... OR make it like HD remix and switch the command to P+K in the air, and 3xP is the EX version. OR...

You get the idea.

Posted by Luk_Edge on October 1, 2009 at 2:56 a.m. #9

Sorry for double post, but I was listening to T. Hawk using his slam ultra, sounds like he says "Raging Typhoon!" x:
Just thought I'd mention.

Posted by zombiebrian on October 1, 2009 at 4:43 a.m. #10

Please try and limit comments to guide suggestions and avoid childish things lie "yey super street fighter four" or "he'll be just like Zangief but quicker" This will help us keep the comments a bit more usefull

Posted by Tirasoul on October 1, 2009 at 6:22 a.m. #11

T.Hawk isn't a friendly character at all.
yes he has Dive and a shoryuken.and they were very usefull to series Turbo and Alpha especially in HD Remix where the dive was completely safe.but he's pokes are not so good as Giefs.and the range of his grab (Mexican Typhoon) isn't like Giefs Grabs.fair enough though because Gief has less range than T.Hawk in special moves.but the pokes of Gief are very good to close the gap between him and the opponent because his moves has the ability to step unlike T.Hawk's.
if dive is completely safe in SSF4 then we have a good move here like HD Remix.but i think that can be focuse from the opponent.thats my guess.if not then we have a lethal move.
also in SF4 we saw that Lariat is much better than a shoryuken.even better than Ryu's and Akuma's which they are 3 frames.i dont think that T.Hawk shoryuken is going to be 3 frames at all.i think it will be 4 to 5 frames at best.and ofcourse shoryuken can be punished a lot more than Lariat if it whifs or blocked.so i guess that is upper hand for Zangief.
Zangief is the most friendly character in SF4.i dont think that theyre going to change that.T.Hawk will be a very abused character, especially with his dive (not so abused like Honda or Blanka) but in a way that he can approach the opponent and set some traps with his dive and with his grab.
also we dont know yet which move theyre going to give him ofcourse.will it be the dive that it can do an armor break or another move? will it be usefull this new move or what?
we know for sure that his shoryuken will be armor break when it comes as reversal like the other shoryuken.
im getting nervous when i think something bad about T.Hawk because he is my favourite character and i want him to be solid.i dont wish for top tiers etc. because i m hoping for balanced games also but i want him above mid.
also about his health i see that i agree with Sephirothclone.if you can see in the other thread (the one with staminas) i said that T.Hawk must be in the second category together with Rufus.and i explain there why.

@Sephirothclone
lol dont change them friend if you dont like them.i just remind you some that they are right.
if you want don change Ultra.change his special.because personally i think that is very same between them.i think that ultra and some else must be unique. ;)

Posted by subcons on October 1, 2009 at 8:07 a.m. #12

"...but he's pokes are not so good as Giefs.and the range of his grab (Mexican Typhoon) isn't like Giefs Grabs."

At least in ST/Remix, he has excellent pokes. cJab is extremely fast and cForward as well as stRoundhouse (which he definitely has in SSFIV because it's in one of the screenshots) have extremely good range.

As for his command grab, the jab version has just as much range as Gief's jab command grab. I snag people up from maximum distance that jump in on me all the time.

That all applies to ST/Remix though, so no telling what they'll do with him here.

Posted by Tirasoul on October 1, 2009 at 12:03 p.m. #13

@subcons
first of all thanks for your attention and for what you say and im agree with you at the most.
but cJab was in Turbo too.and it was a must move from T.Hawk players because they can cut almost everything in the air giving him great advantage after that.
also cF and stR was in Turbo also and yes they have very good range.
but i wasn't mention to my prenious post about pokes generally how good they are.first of all Zangief has match more pokes (unfortunatelly) and pokes (that help him STEP forward).T.Hawk hasn't any steping poke to use.the only movement to approach is Dive.

"As for his command grab, the jab version has just as much range as Gief's jab command grab. I snag people up from maximum distance that jump in on me all the time."

....yeah but i didnt said anything about the classic jab.i said about the corner.just go to your PS3/360 and put an opponent to wall.then select Zangief and T.Hawk and do the grab from a max position.you can see which has the better range.

"That all applies to ST/Remix though, so no telling what they'll do with him here."

....im not saying early conlusions im saying what he has.
and dont forget Alpha 3 man.T.Hawk appeared in this game too.and he has new moves.

im saying all these because i love this character and i play him all my life.thats why i want him pretty solid and not the low and mid tier situation at the previous games.

Posted by Tony Hawk on October 1, 2009 at 1:49 p.m. #14

I think his command grab is just going to be a half circle back just like honda, abel, seth.

Posted by Tirasoul on October 1, 2009 at 2:06 p.m. #15

"I think his command grab is just going to be a half circle back just like honda, abel, seth."

i dont think that will be happen.
T.Hawk originally was just like Zangief.only a little different because of the different style of his moves.
he has 360 then in Turbo and in Alpha3 and the only change was in SSFT HDRemix.but that change was in Zangief also.
and it wasn't actually a change.you can do it with 2 ways.
The classic 360 or f,df,d,db,b,f P.
this was just an idea for those how are troubling with 360's.
thats why T.Hawk is gonna have again 360 like Zangief.
the same goes with 720.

Posted by Doctor_Panic_PhD on October 1, 2009 at 4:50 p.m. #16

After watching the GT interview with Ono, it looks like the Tomahawk Buster will knockdown like Old T.Hawk but leave him close to the character like HD T.Hawk. However it looks like it was used as more of a cross-up attack so I'm still not sure what will happen when it hits staight on.
Hopefully Ono saw how people have ranked T.Hawk on the HD Tier list and will make all the changes they didn't in that game (due to how long ST has been played and examined).

Posted by Tirasoul on October 2, 2009 at 7:30 a.m. #17

the things ive noticed so far are:
1)his Dive can do easilly Cross up now.Sweet.
2)i dont know how much safe it is though.because in a video with Juri and T.Hawk, T.Hawk is doing a dive on hit and he goes up and back to land after that.while the dive knocks down the opponent.i dont know what will happen if Dive blocked.i hope not to be punished in air.i want to be something like the roll of blanka.which some moves can punish it.ok I want it totally safe but i thing its a little hard :(
3)he has the classic combo from Turbo and HD remix (jabdHP,MK,shoryuken) wich cost damage and stun properties.
4)he's EX shoryuken has pretty good damage and connect with other combos.its ending with dive move.
5)i haven't seen yet a new move or something.maybe in a old video but im not sure for that.
6)we know so far that his Ultra is a command grab just like Zangief's Ultra and he is Super is similar also.we dont know yet about his second Ultra.
7)some moves (like dMP,jHK,jHP) are still the same.which is good.
i still be looking for something i didn't have seen until now...

Posted by Doctor_Panic_PhD on October 2, 2009 at 10:02 p.m. #18

this is to just correct my previous message. The Hawk Dive was the move I meant to say does a good crossup. His DP attack not only looks incredibly fast but looks to have him land about a step back from the opponent. While this next bit maybe be common knowledge by now but it looks like T.Hawk can do his command throw (without jumping/just walking forward) similar to how zangief has been able to lately. I think that they should give T.Hawk an armor breaking move though. No point in having him be exactly like gief with his total lack of them.

Posted by Tirasoul on October 3, 2009 at 4:53 p.m. #19

@Doctor_Panic_PhD"While this next bit maybe be common knowledge by now but it looks like T.Hawk can do his command throw (without jumping/just walking forward) similar to how zangief has been able to lately."

...my friend T.Hawk can do command throw since Super Street Fighter the New Challengers on SNES and Mega Drive.you just walk and do almost a circle.it isn't hard.
the same goes to Zangief.

"I think that they should give T.Hawk an armor breaking move though. No point in having him be exactly like gief with his total lack of them."

we dont know yet if Condor Dive is the move for gurad break.maybe it is maybe not.
we are waiting rof a new move also.maybe the new move is a guard break.
Zangief also has lariat for guard breaks.which is one of the best moves for that.

Posted by Tirasoul on October 5, 2009 at 1:25 p.m. #20

from this video=> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dJil0...

i can see clearly T.Hawks new special move.
it seems like a vertical dive.
pretty usefull though.now he has 3 directions now.
the first is the classis Dive from the air and goes diagonaly to the ground.the second is the classic shoryuken that starts from the ground and goes diagonaly to the air.and the third is the dive(?) that he is doing it just a little up from the ground and goes vertical like Honda's or Blanka's move.
One from the 2 dives must be a guard break apparently.
and ofcourse these 3 moves gives T.Hawk a good mix up game also.and ofcourse good properties to approach the opponent to use other combos or command throw.
i assume that these are very good.
can't wait to test him. :)
the only thing that matters now is to check all of his pokes.maybe some changes or some new ones.
and ofcourse how safe will be the dives on block.
Special EX are another thing to test.
also in the video you can see full his Super move.he grabs the opponent twist him/her one time,then trow him to the ground while he bounce him/her at the air and continuously he is doing a Mexican Typhoon for a good amount of damage.
its pretty cool for the action and for the damage.
and its very unique compare it to his Ultra move.

Posted by Doctor_Panic_PhD on October 5, 2009 at 9:05 p.m. #21

@Tirasoul
while the lariat is a good move against focus attacks, it isn't armor breaking. the first hit gets absorbed and the second hit connects and takes off total damage equal to two lariats. anyone can just absorb the first hit and back dash before the second fist hits. this is important against someone like gouken whose counter move would hit zangief once the first hit connects. only a move like the tiger knee and true armor breaking moves can stop that. hell, against some people who use cammy or ryu i can use gouken's counter to hit them during their ultras, because while they may be multihit attacks they are not armor breaking.

Posted by Doctor_Panic_PhD on October 5, 2009 at 9:23 p.m. #22

minor thing i forgot: reversal special/super/ultra moves break focus attacks and gouken's counter move even if the the attack doesn't normally have that ability.

Posted by Tira on October 6, 2009 at 1:25 a.m. #23

@Doctor_Panic_PhD

correct man.but i didn't said that Lariat can break focus.
i just said that is a usefool tool against focus.since some of the characters are takes risk to defeat Lariat with a focus attack.a) because takes a lot of damage and sometimes is difficult to avoid it plus Zangief can do his command throw after that and b) Zangief can move front or backwards to avoid something and be safe.
you must play Gouken.and i dont know a lot of Gouken.maybe can manage better the Lariat thing.
all my life i was playing T.Hawk and generally grabbler characters.
my Main in SF4 is Rufus,Rose (and since T.Hawk sadly wasn't in the game) i choose sometimes to play Zangief but i never like this character.

Posted by Tirasoul on October 6, 2009 at 1:41 a.m. #24

sorry for double post guys.i just want to say from my previous posts that:

a)Rufus and Rose was my main characters in SFIV but in SSFIV
my main will be again T.Hawk (thanx to Capcom and Ono) :D

and b) about that video =>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dJil0FgSZE&feature=PlayList&p=435F1F062567EF57

there is a glitch (i dont know why) between 1:02-1:08 and you have to pass to 1:14 to play the rest.i was forgot that.sorry.

Posted by Doctor_Panic_PhD on October 6, 2009 at 11:49 a.m. #25

I only play as gouken in a regular player match. he's not really a main guy for me. I just test everyone to see what they can do. My main is mostly Honda. I used to play Dictator in super turbo but I felt like going into SFIV with a little more power then deception moves. In fact I only did zangief's challanges just so I could get the "I Hate Projectiles" title. I will definitely try T.Hawk sicne I always preferred him over gief. now this may be my personal opinion but I think the matchup that think is the most important to analyze will be ryu vs. t.hawk. I play too many ryus and each player has some common strategies but throw in so many different things. it's impossible to have one solid strategy against ryu players since he can be used offensively or defensively equally well.

Posted by Tirasoul on October 7, 2009 at 8:43 a.m. #26

i see.
so you want to talk about Ryu vs T.Hawk in HD remix i suppose.
because T.Hawk isn't in SF4 yet.its not the thread for that but i can say some things against Ryu.
with Ryu ist not that hard than you think.
you just have to bait all the time his fireballs with jumpins and Dives just for damage and generally to close the gap between you and the opponent.you have shoryuken for anti air properties and ofcourse use always at the air moves like jlp,or jdmp for counters and pressure after that.once you are close to him give the pressure that T.Hawk players use everytime.you know with jdhp.and after that use mix ups.like the combos or a setup that leads to command grab.
in the case that Ryu do a jump in and you have to block.dont scared.just hold your defence and use your skills to break a grab or do the command grab or reversal the attack with shoryuken.if you have super bar even better because during the attack you can actually do a 720-540 move.this is for Turbo or HD in SF4 for a counter air attack T.Hawk will have also Focus ;)
i main once again T.Hawk in SSF4 like always so im gonna check him to the bone so if i have some pretty usefull combos-setups ill post them right here.

Posted by Doctor_Panic_PhD on October 7, 2009 at 12:02 p.m. #27

that's some good info. I probably should have clarified my last message better though. I meant when Super SFIV comes out I want to see how pro players will rate a ryu vs t.hawk match in t.hawk's favor. When it comes to HD Remix and IV, ryu is more prominent and harder to beat (in my opinion at least) in IV. I actually don't fight a lot of ryus in HD remix. its mostly ken matchs. I can bait them into that overused light shoryuken way too easy. but going back to Super IV I think I might even give Dee Jay a try...for fun at the very least.

Posted by Tirasoul on October 7, 2009 at 12:49 p.m. #28

we have to wait and see.
the most important things for T.Hawk to see when the game comes out will be how safe will be with his moves,how much health he have and how safely can close the distance between him and the opponent.
Dee Jay huh? i can't play charger characters.
i used to play characters with 360's or characters with semi circles (like hadouken,shoryuken moves).
but i think Dee Jay and T.Hawk will be technical characters that are used to be in the previous games.
i dont care actually i like difficult characters.plus its a challenge. ;)

Posted by Doctor_Panic_PhD on October 7, 2009 at 1:37 p.m. #29

I like difficult characters too. that's why i was so surprised when i saw cammy's standing against akuma in IV. either way i'm still one challange short with her. i tend to lean towards charge characters like bison, chun li, guile and honda. but for some reason i never play balrog or blanka. maybe its because i play against them too much. I actually play them more aggresively though. i can't stand defensive matchs. in fact just before I fought against 4 kens. one was aggressive as hell and i barely beat him as honda. the other 3 kept backing up and then hurricane kicking over to the other side of the screen. I lost to two of them but jeez, those took forever to end

Posted by Doctor_Panic_PhD on October 7, 2009 at 4:34 p.m. #30

( maybe its because i play against them too much)-meaning charge characters sans balrog and blanka.

Posted by Doctor_Panic_PhD on October 7, 2009 at 4:39 p.m. #31

man I type so fast and never proof read. disregard my previous short message. I meant i play chun li, guile and honda very aggresively. as for bison, i've been playing him offensively since the Hyper Fighting days.

Posted by Tirasoul on October 8, 2009 at 5 a.m. #32

then i guess you have to continue your choice with charger characters.Chun Li and M.Bison and Blanka are very solid and strong characters.especially M.Bison.he can actually play almost against everyone.
his only disadvantage is when he cornered from the opponent because he hasn't a shoryuken to throw.
but EX stomp is a great move to leave from the pressure.
I think Dee Jay will be a great character for players they are using chargers.and T.Hawk will be a very solid character (not like Zangief sadly :( ) but i know from the old series how he is playing so i want have problems.
is just that Dee Jay and T.Hawk were both very technichal characters and from what Ono sais they will be technical in SSFIV too.

Posted by Doctor_Panic_PhD on October 8, 2009 at 1:41 p.m. #33

now moving onto new characters, I probably won't play as juri but at least try her in training mode to see all her moves. but then there is this rumor of an arab grappling character going around. while i don't mind the idea of an arab character, another grappling character seems unnecessary. unless the do something totally obscure with grappling like they did with El Fuerte I would prfer a different style of fighting.

Posted by Tirasoul on October 9, 2009 at 5:59 a.m. #34

you mean Hakan.
yes there is a rumour that probably be a grappling character.
so far we have 2 characters with 360's characters including (T.Hawk) & Zangief, 2 characters with 180 grab (Abel & E.Honda) and one original grappler El Fuerte.i dont put Seth with T.Hawk and Zangief because this character is a clone type character and his style isn't like grapplers or anyones in the game.
so Hakan must go into one team.
i dont know but i guess that Hakan will be with Abel and E.Honda.i think he will be the speed kind of character with grab/throw mix ups.like Abel and El Fuerte.

@Doctor_Panic_PhD
thanx for the conversation man.but we are out of the subject lol.this is T.Hawks thread.so i think we can wait for Hakan and the others to talk to their specific topics.

Posted by Doctor_Panic_PhD on October 9, 2009 at 1:15 p.m. #35

true. I knew I was off the subject for a while. I was on a roll with these messages and just lost track of myself. I'll start putting my un-T.Hawk related maessages at the Mani SFIV section.

Posted by Tirasoul on October 9, 2009 at 1:32 p.m. #36

^^ lol....we can discuss in the other threads man if you want.Dee Jay (i know some things...im not an expert though) or the other characters. ;)

Posted by Doctor_Panic_PhD on October 9, 2009 at 1:36 p.m. #37

heheh I see. anyway I do have a comment about new characters in the main section right now.

Posted by Tirasoul on October 9, 2009 at 3:37 p.m. #38

I'm going to see...

just to return to the subject here.
i want to say that in the video i was posted before (look here=> #20) there is also T.Hawks grab that throws the opponent from the neck to the other side.so lP Mexican Typhoon is the one that we ve seen all the time.the second T.Hawk's grab is the one that choke the opponent and probably leaves him infront of him.something that tells me gives T.Hawk the advantage for mix up game.

Posted by pooploser on October 9, 2009 at 8:11 p.m. #39

MAN!:( just an opinion here but Hugo would have been soooooo sic for sf4 but instead we get Tony Hawk whatever

Posted by Tirasoul on October 10, 2009 at 5:40 a.m. #40

@#39

first i dont like the "nickname" Tony Hawk.its Thunder Hawk (T.Hawk).
i dont go to other characters threads to cursed them or put nicks so im hoping to do the same.im giving my respect to all characters.
as for Hugo is a great character.and i want him in SSFIV also.
but if you have a little petion then you probably see him in an next Disc.this time was T.Hawk's return.pls dont spoil that.if dont like him you can see and play other characters.
like i said and Capcom said.T.Hawk and Dee Jay could be in the previous disc.but because of time they desided to add them in this one.
but this is not the end of the world.
there are going to add more characters inside.
do you know how much beggings we have do T.Hawk's playes (even fi we are few) to see him in a new street fighter game.
Mercy guys.dont think only your pleasure and who's the most popular character to be inside.
you have to give some sluck here i guess.

Posted by pooploser on October 10, 2009 at 12:53 p.m. #41

@#40 dam bro sounds like you T. Hawk should run off into the sun set together.

Posted by Tirasoul on October 10, 2009 at 1:29 p.m. #42

@#40 lol you can say that.he is my favourite character!

Posted by pooploser on October 22, 2009 at 12:11 p.m. #43

Sorry dude, I'm just gay for Hugo.

Posted by Sephirothclone on October 23, 2009 at 1:11 a.m. #44

Hmmm...saw the NYC fight club stuff recently. Is it just me, or does Hawks Super do damn near as much damage as his Ultra? It looks awfully close. Maybe 3% less than the Ultra, but really close. The range of his Ultra puts Giefs UAB to shame from the looks of it, and thats without Juri attacking. But it's early to really get to the meat and bones on game details right now, since Hawk, DJ, and Juri are in the spot light, and there being shown there strenghts more than there weakness'es right now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcIXTu...

Posted by Tirasoul on October 23, 2009 at 4:11 a.m. #45

@#44

yes youre right man.T.Hawk's super is doing a similar damage to his ultra.and his super is more fascinating than his ultra.
i have to admit that.
but we dont know yet what arranges are gonna do.this is just the begging.
since also Seth Kilian mention (that sadly) is gonna nerf Ultra's range grab. :(
will see.

Posted by Tirasoul on October 23, 2009 at 4:13 a.m. #46

@#43

we share the same love for characters.
i do understand. ;)

Posted by Sephirothclone on October 23, 2009 at 12:50 p.m. #47

Well...Seth also sounded like he was joking about the range of his Ultra anyway, but again, after seeing both Juri and DJ, and Juri and T.Hawks matches, god it really looked like they had few, if any flaws.

I know Tirasoul, your loving what they've shown thus far. Some say on Shoryuken, Hawk has no combos from what they saw, but most people know diddly squat about Hawk's combo's. Hawk to me has...an OK Rising Hawk(looked about 10% damage wise) but everything else to me, looked...real good.

But again, the characters thus far have excellent attributes that will be toned down by release time, thats a given.

My post on #2 and #4 is my version of what T.Hawk might come out like, for balancing and differential reasons. I know Tirasoul, Hawk is a Mexican Gief and you want the best for Hawk...can't say I don't blame you, but you gotta be realistic for Hawk to have "GASP"...flaws...some noticeable flaws.

Posted by Sephirothclone on October 23, 2009 at 1:41 p.m. #48

I am curious about his new move the Condor Spire; doesn't look as fast or as good as the Condor dive, but you see it's meant to knock opponents out of the sky, probably without trading HKs or HPs. I've seen footage of players performing it almost immediately from jumping, making for interesting combos. I doubt it will be an infinite, but don't count things out until the final product.

Posted by Tirasoul on October 25, 2009 at 4:19 a.m. #49

@Sephirothclone

thanx man for the comprehension.
yes i want the best for my character.like i said earlier i agree with more that you ve said.and also to say that T.Hawk is a technical character than Zangief since Super Street Fighter.and now i think the same too.
he needed a new move actually since Alpha 3 that has got one back then.
actually Condor Spire has not much range but i think that it will be handy to close the distance between T.Hawk and opponent.i don't know yet which move can break a focus.
will be Condor Dive or Condor Spire.
and i agree with the last you said.i dont think it will have infinite properties but some good choices for combos with canceling or not.

Posted by xiro on October 28, 2009 at 2:29 p.m. #50

He's too freakin strong. not even zangiefs ultra does that much damage.

Posted by Drunomi23 on October 30, 2009 at 12:04 p.m. #51

Man I can't wait to use T.Hawk in SSF4,I'm pretty good with him in SSF2 T HD Remix.

Posted by Tirasoul on October 31, 2009 at 5:44 a.m. #52

@#50

we dont know yet if they will keep the same damage numbers for T.Hawk's Ultra.
but from what we ve seen so far it seems that currently its a bit more damaging.(we should also take account that he used on Juri which is a female character with no much health...apparently)

Posted by Ironmonk on November 2, 2009 at 3:55 a.m. #53

Good list and lots of great comments. That Condor Spire was a leaping chop move from SFA3 right? So how can that horizontal Condor Dive be the same move? I saw T. Hawk use that move in a preview video. So unless it's his Focus attack, that movelist can not be right. Still, it's a good movelist though.

Posted by Tirasoul on November 3, 2009 at 6:29 a.m. #54

@#53

yeah its great that he can now a new move as a replace of the old Condor move from Alpha3.
Condor Spire has different button input from Condor Dive.
its like Feilongs shoryuken move but with Punch instead fo Kick.
we don't know yet if one of these 2 dives can actually do a phocus break.it is sure that has different use from Condor dive just because of its direction.
we have to wait and see.

Posted by kjgkg on November 7, 2009 at 3:42 p.m. #55

ok

Posted by Sephirothclone on November 17, 2009 at 10:53 p.m. #56

After seeing the IGN commentary on T. Hawk, he looks more balanced compared to the NYC fight club, a mere month ago. That demo was a rough version, of course.

T. Hawk still looks fast, plenty of health(again, the jury is out on if his health is 1150 or 1200), strong(duh!...again, Gief strength or second to him), and really effective specials.

-His Condor Dive is fast, Homes in really well, and looks to have great priority...down side looks like it is weak(it hits about 7% or 8% against Juri from what I see, who will likely have 950 or 900 hp)...but if it has all of the properties mentioned above, the strength of the attack balances out.

-Condor Spire looks...hmmm...hit or miss dependent of the oppenets move. CP looks like 10% or 11% damage, and lets Hawk close the gap on his opponent. Don't know if it trades yet, and it doesn't look fast as it was shown in NYCFC. Again, properties are dependent of moves. If opponent cr. lp or cr. hk, then CP flies over it. NOW...I'm curious if CP goes through or trades opponents standing attacks. Gotta wait on that.

-Rising Hawk looks similiar to SRK...close to same strength, maybe 9% or 10% attack from looks of it. Heres the kicker...Seth mentions it can be canceled to Condor Dive. I didn't hear him say it can be done just from EX alone though, which means 3 things:
1. You can perform RH, then perform EX CD(looks like it cost 1 EX bar to cancel though). This can lead to Hawk doing an empty RH, tricking his opponent to attack, which you can CD into the opponent. Good bait tactic, keeps opponent guessing.
2. You perform EX RH, then EX CD(cost 2 bars: 1 for each EX move.) Again, still useful for faking, and can now be used as a two hit combo. Didn't see damage done by it, but I expect 20% damage. The problem here, is the 2 EX bars used for something like this. I don't know if anyone will really be willing to give up 2 bars for 20% damage, roughly. Though...it can be a great last ditch move to finish the match, which might be it's true purpose.
3. Seth didn't mention it, and it's most likely not going to be included(and it's just one mans pipe dream), but RH, cancel to Condor Spire. This would be interesting move for Air runaway. Still cost 2 EX bars, and would give Hawk more options. Even if it were included, still don't know if a player would waste 2 bars on it though.

-Mexican Typhoon. Looks like it hasn't changed thus far. Still just as strong as SPD, range though might not be as good as NYCFC footage. Can't tell cause Hawk was so close to Juri from the clips. Still looks good.

-Ultra: Still a whopper. Does 60% on Juri at FULL strength. Don't know about range right now, but Strength might be 55% damage, 58% tops...ONLY because it was against Juri in the video clip(Juri will most likely have 950 or 900 health mind you, so take that in consideration. UNLESS Juri will have 1000 Health, then Hawks Ultra will be equivalent to UAB).

Continued...

Posted by Sephirothclone on November 17, 2009 at 10:53 p.m. #57

-Normals look alright. They sure looked strong though, Hawk did like 4 normals on Juri in round 1 and took like 50% off...what the hell?...Alas, it's still rough to tell, and SSFIV has a ways to go.

http://ps3.ign.com/dor/objects/35905/...

Tirsoul, whats your thoughts?

Posted by Doctor_Panic_PhD on November 18, 2009 at 7:18 a.m. #58

This came to me as I was watching some gameplay footage but I'm one of the few (only?) people to think that while Hawk's Ultra needs to change that they shouldn't swap the super in its place. The super may look cool do to the ground rebound but it's still his original super. After coming up with some ideas i finally settle on one. First Hawk does the rebound throw part of the super move. This time hawk jumps and swings them up VERY high and throws them down like his ultra. Finally, (and i took this sound idea from akuma's ultra) as the opponent is swung and thrown to the ground they do their KO scream, only for Hawk to do a vertical condor dive cross chop right to their throat. It would actually make sense too. It's not like Cammy's ultra where the slam to the ground is the final blow while the neck breacker is purely aesthetic. Once the cross chop lands and you get the flashy background finish there will be no KO scream because you just landed on there freaking throat. Anyway this idea is totally my idea. I actually would have prefered to use the new property Seth mentioned to have people rebound off the wall but there were too many issues when I was thinking. besides it's not like they couldn't give Hawk a second ultra to act as an air grab after bouncing them off a wall. In any case. I would really love if this idea got to CAPCOM. It wouldn't be game breaking at all. They can even keep the same damage as the orginal, just deal out the damage in three parts instead of two.

Posted by Dr_Panic_PhD on November 18, 2009 at 6:56 p.m. #59

Well I sent the previous message along with my alligator wrestler character idea for future games to Seth's BLOG on capcom unity. This is how he replied "Interesting stuff. I can't tell you too much, but I can say that T. Hawk will have some more surprises to come, so don't count him out." Finally he told me that I need to look on the boards for members of the team if I want my ideas to be read.

Posted by Harima on November 21, 2009 at 1:21 a.m. #60

Dr Panic
that Ultra seems way to sinister, like something out of MK. I do admit that his Ultra seems kinds empty though, I love the way they put his victory taunt at the end though. I don't care what they do as long as they keep that.

I've never really used T.Hawk before because I wasn't able to perform the 360 and 720s like I can now. I've always wanted to use him though...I can't wait

Posted by Doctor_Panic_PhD on November 21, 2009 at 7:36 a.m. #61

Maybe it's a little sinister, but that's because I love ones like cammy's. I did have an aternate landing where he lands with both hands on the opponents face instead of just one hand like his regular throws. I just thought it was appropriate because most of his moves are chops. Grappling characters definitely aren't for everyone. I can play as Zangief alright but he lacks that certain finesse with his other moves that T Hawk has. I also wouldn't mind keeping the pose at the end of the ultra but I do think it needs probably one more part before you get to it.

Posted by Sephirothclone on November 25, 2009 at 1:36 p.m. #62

just curious...did anyone jump ship like the other 95% of people who saw Adon, Cody, and guy get inducted? I like those three and all(hell I'm one of the few who likes and has played there Alpha counter parts, unlike many others), but I knew this was going to happen.
Capcom spent months getting Hawk, DJ, and Juri as the prime characters to use in SSFIV(did a damn good job too...got alot of people who never cared for Hawk and DJ to begin with into them after showing clips of them), i still see Hawk being pretty good. I know the 3 new characters moves and If I guess there transition to the SFIV engine(SSFIV engine just looks sped up), then Hawk will still be lethal. Hawk will have priority over Adon and Guy, since most of there games rely on air supremacy, which Hawk can knock out of the sky. Hawk will have to deal with Codys decent ground game though...probably a good run away game using the Condor dive to poke and Condor Spire to "POSSIBLY" go over or through Codys attacks. We shall see...

Posted by Tirasoul on November 26, 2009 at 5:13 a.m. #63

@Sephirothclone

I agree with you man at most of things you ve said.
First off all now we know which move has Armor break properties. and is his Condor dive which means that when T.Hawk jumps the opponent must be very carefull to use a focus attack.The bad thing is that Condor Dive sadly its pretty unsafe. :(
His new move Condor Spire looks pretty safe to me.I dont know if its very safe but so far its pretty good for hit and specially to close the gap.That most people agree with that.
I assume that his Tomahawk buster (his shoryuken) will have reversal armor break properties and it will be use for anti air moves and for FADC properties into Dive.
If his Mexican Typhoon (command grab) will be 2 frames like Giefs then we have a pretty good solid character here and thats pleases me.
I'm very happy to see T.Hawk more close to tier list from HD remix.I want him a solid High/mid tier character and thats it.
Im still guessing that his health will be like Giefs or atlist like Rufus.
His poking system looks very good.His down HK move looks like very good and safe and probably can be used for punish range moves.
I think the only bad thing is that Condor Dive its pretty unsafe.
I dont see something else that can "hurt" T.Hawk.
Day by day im counting hours and minutes to main him again after all this time from the previous titles.

Posted by JohnJohnson on November 27, 2009 at 5:20 p.m. #64

Holy Crap!! Do people do nothing but write essays on the comments? Dudes, can you keep it to like five sentences?!

Posted by Sephirothclone on November 28, 2009 at 10:52 a.m. #65

@JohnJohnson

Oh yeah...we could do that, but giving an indepth analyis of the character is more thought provoking and considerable. Why give an answer or response, and not explain your reason for why you said it, just shows lack of evidence or research. I know it's made for comments, but I like "essays" as a response. See...that's under five sentences right there.

Posted by JohnJohnson on November 28, 2009 at 11:27 p.m. #66

Dude, I'm just commenting on how long some of these statements are. Seriously, if you're going to write out something this long and in depth, why not do it on a forum or blog? This is the comment post. This is the same place were you can read peoples comments on how much they like a character, hate a character, romantic fantasies they've had about the character.
Plus, have you seen some of the other comment sections on this site? There's like 200 per. I haven't gone to look but I know some of them are well over 150. So what ends up happening is that a smart, intelligent comment gets lost in a sea of nouns, adverbs, spelling errors and bad grammar.
The point is that you can write down all the stuff you want, but I know of two things: 1, some people just don't care and 2, you get guys like me who look into it too much. So when I say your comments are too long, I'm saying it because most are just going to ignore it and not even bother and that's what I'm thinking. You can still write it down if it's going to help someone or if you think somethings cool, that is what the comments are for, I'm just telling you how I think and feel about it. Big deal, who cares.
Ok, this is about T. Hawk so I need to say something about him... I like how he call that eagle to his arm when he wins. And if I hear one word about how big of a hypocrite I am, I swear to god...

Posted by Keith on November 30, 2009 at 11:50 p.m. #67

From what I've seen from the videos I can tell that, just like Zangief, T. Hawk will be a much better character in SSFIV than in SSFII. His Tomahawk Buster and Condor Dive are a lot faster and no longer have the start-up lag from the old games. There must be something about the SFIV engine that gives T. Hawk and Zangief more priority in their movesets now. I think I may have found my SF character in T. Hawk.

Posted by Tirasoul on December 2, 2009 at 6:10 a.m. #68

@Keith
Actually Condor Dive and Tomahawk buster are pretty much the same speed and use compare them to SSFII.
I think that the most interesting thing is his command throw.(Mexican Typhoon)
Because its easier to do than SSFII.We have already see Zangief's command throw how he use it and generally its properties so something like that will have T.Hawk also.
Sadly in SFIV and probably in SSFIV (i hope Capcom consider that) is that these characters dont have the option select system like in SSFII.It was very usefull especially for T.Hawk.

Posted by Keith on December 2, 2009 at 7:46 p.m. #69

@Tirasoul
Are you talking about having the option of selecting either Classic moveset or HD Remix moveset in SSFIIHDR?

Posted by Tirasoul on December 4, 2009 at 5:06 a.m. #70

@Keith

amm...No.I'm talking about this => http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8dD3K...

at 5.00, that's an option select.

Posted by Keith on December 4, 2009 at 9:33 p.m. #71

@Tirasoul
Alright, I see what you mean.

I think that the Condor Spire will be a very underrated move since most people tend to think that it's not effective. I've recently been playing with Zangief and have learned that if you do a Banishing Flat and your opponent blocks it, it basically sets your opponent up for an easy grab. That same principle can be applied to T. Hawk's Condor Spire. If you do a Condor Spire and your opponent blocks it, it will set him up for an easy Mexican Typhoon.

Posted by Tirasoul on December 7, 2009 at 1:06 p.m. #72

@Keith

Actually Banishing flat on block takes punish.And the EX also.Thats why many times Zangief players use 3 Ex bars or 2 to cancel it.As for the use yes it seems that its pretty similar Condor Spire with Banishing flat.
If Condor Spire be more safe than Banishing flat then yes it will be a nice move to set some good grab properties or generally a mind game.If not then it must use for traps.Like when T.Hawk knocks down an opponent, a condor spire it will be very handy to approach and then he can set some mind traps for the opponent.
But i want to add something else also.
Actually Condor Dive is not the same in some ways with Banishing flat.Condor Dive looks like its an anti low move.And Banishing flat i think its a bit more fast than condor spire.Because in Condor spire move the first thing that T.Hawk do is up and forward, while Zangief instantly in Banishing flat goes forward very fast.
So i guess that these moves aren't completely the same.But they look like they have the same "close the distance" properties.

Posted by yoyo on December 10, 2009 at 8:49 a.m. #73

Useless in a keyboard, on pc version?

Posted by Tirasoul on December 12, 2009 at 7:11 a.m. #74

@yoyo

You can actually use a pad or a stick for the PC version with a USB adaptor.But for now all we know is that they are not going to make a PC version.

Posted by Sephirothclone on January 7, 2010 at 8:17 p.m. #75

Been watching the Vegas fight...T. Hawk has 1000 HP. Abel pulled off Heartless on Hawk, and it did like 300 HP. No kidding. Other than that...Hawk looks good.

Posted by KJ on January 8, 2010 at 11:22 p.m. #76

^^^ A 1000 HP? That makes no sense.

They might not match him with Gief at 1200 HP (they should), but I bet he has 1150 HP.

I was planning on re-maining him in SSF4 to be 'unique', regardless how good he was. Always has been a favorite of mine. After watching the Vegas videos... there's going be A LOT of Hawk users. :( He looks top tier for sure.

Posted by tirasoul on January 9, 2010 at 11:39 a.m. #77

Yeah its frustrating sometimes that people choose a character only from its level in tier list and not for the character himself and the worst thing is that most of the people hate and always mocks T.Hawk and now a lot of them are going to choose him.Tragic irony?

Anyway....I don't know about his health yet.
I think he has 1150 like Rufus or something.
Maybe Abel's Heartless is a bit to damaging and thats why you think that T.Hawk lost a lot of health.
Maybe not.We'll see.

As im saying at the first time.T.Hawk's Condor Spire is solid safe.
And this is the great thing.
I've notice that his shoryuken its very good as a reversal shoryuken.
Maybe better than Cammy's and Feilong's???Who knows.
I don't know yet what they saying about T.Hawk's command grab.
I dont know if get nerfed from the other Street Series about the damage part.
Maybe T.Hawk nov must rely on other things than so much with his grab.

Posted by EsTeeEfU on January 10, 2010 at 4:22 p.m. #78

i think there wont be alot of hawk users. people dont like command grabbers. plus with the addition of dee jay, cody, adon, guy,etc T. Hawk is going to be left in the shadows (which is a good thing)

Posted by Tirasoul on January 10, 2010 at 6:08 p.m. #79

@#78

I agree with you, plus they are going to add 3 more characters from 3rd strike (Dudley,Ibuki,Makoto) which they have many fans.

Also it was just an excibition mode this fight club just to see some Ultras and ofcourse how the characters can move and fight generally.
When the other characters add in it will be another Fight club and then we will see how the things goes.

Posted by Tirasoul on January 12, 2010 at 6:36 a.m. #80

Here's T.Hawk's second Ultra:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPBmjd...

Much better than the first one and ofcourse more usefull.
i think T.Hawk in SSFIV gain a lot of power since the latest titles in Street Series.
This pleases me the most because i really LOVE the chracter since SSFII and i want him to play one time in a higher tier rank.
I think my wish came true.

Posted by Sephirothclone on January 12, 2010 at 2:25 p.m. #81

^ You and I guessed right on Hawk being a powerhouse in SSFIV. His specials are not really powerful though, but they have great range and priority non-the-less.

Everyone is saying he has great health...which I still think 1150...but all of his current footage...he looks like 1000 health, maybe 1050. To tell the truth, from the looks of things...I would not mind Hawk having okay health, considering his moves and abilites thus far...he looks real good. the SOB will really be scary due to having a grab Super and Air Ultra...you damn well know people will save his Super, just to mess with people. And come SSFIVTurbo, when he'll probably get an air to ground Ultra...Whew!

Either that, or grab characters just work extremely well on the SFIV engine. Anywho...we shall see what becomes of him, come release time.

Posted by Tirasoul on January 14, 2010 at 5:09 a.m. #82

Sephirothclone i agree with you man.
Especially in the part of health.
Also i want to add that he is the biggest and largest character in SFIV and generally in street series (i think T.Hawk and Hugo are the largest characters) and i think that his health will be like Rufus (1150) if not like Giefs.
I can say thath his Storm Hammer grab doesn't take to much damage to opponent like Gief so this give me a reason to believe that T.Hawk now plays differently thath the previous Street titles.
Command throws will be inside his gameplay for mix ups and easy punish but i think he mustn't rely in to that so much.
His 2nd Ultra is an anti air move.So the opponent is going to be in a mode (DON'T JUMP).So then T.Hawk must make a mix up pressure game to grab or hit the opponent while he/she is on the ground and at the same time push him/her to the corner.
Some good things we have here to start thinking about his gameplay.
We have to wait and see.
But i think the most important think thath T.Hawk has now is his Condor Spire move.Using this move with his far ranged pokes and with Condor Dive i think we have a good pressure game.

Posted by Oneil on February 12, 2010 at 5:37 a.m. #83

To everyone who is saying he will be top tier/highly used, he'll be average at best. Remember the only special he has that does respectable damage is his command grab. All other specials are only for the pressure game & not for damage. The only special he has that guard breaks is his rising hawk (which he has to be close to hit with)& his condor dive. U can focus attack counter his condor spire, & follow up with a nasty combo on him after. He doesnt have as much health as Gief, 1050 at best. His only good aspects are that his normals do nice damage & have good range(in otherwords he can easilly win a poke war), & his command throws (supers & ultras especially) do ridiculous damage. Stay out of his large grab range, dont get broken down by his normals/pokes, block & punish his condor dive/spire/rising hawk & u wont have much problems taking him down

Posted by Tirasoul on February 12, 2010 at 5:55 p.m. #84

@#83

T.Hawk is probably in mid tier rank.
But i dont understand something from your post.
Is that a guide how to beat Τ.Hawk or is it just my imagination?
Because especially in the last 2 lines you are describing how to beat his moves and you are suggesting some things for that.
But the thing is that these are just a theory.
Action speaks louder than words and ofcourse you can't predict especially now how to beat T.Hawk or how to play against him.
And ofcourse you can't say with certainty in which tier ranking he probably be.

Posted by Oneil on February 12, 2010 at 7:43 p.m. #85

Ur spot on. Indeed the last line is just my personal theory on how u'll have to fight him based on all the gameplay vids ive seen on him so far, none of it is accurate or proven. And since the game is still being worked on & finalized, when the final product is released he can be a totally different character form what i presumed who knows. But if he stays the way he is from the demo videos, then im pretty sure im correct about everything except his health (that was just a rough guess based on vids again).

Posted by Tirasoul on February 13, 2010 at 7:20 a.m. #86

@#85

I see.So far you're guide is not bad.You have some basic counter stuff how should be.Thought until the game be released probably some things may be incorrect.
But instead to write some thoughts about T.Hawk's versus and how to counter his gameplay maybe you should look for other characters far more dangerous and lethal like Sagat and Ryu because T.Hawk will not be like them. ;)

Posted by lol on February 26, 2010 at 3:25 a.m. #87

zangief would massacre him

Posted by Tirasoul on February 26, 2010 at 9:43 a.m. #88

@ #87

We'll see that....

Posted by time to oil up lolz on February 27, 2010 at 12:46 a.m. #89

@ 87

hakan would/will oil up zangief

Posted by Tirasoul on February 28, 2010 at 4:21 p.m. #90

@#89

Patience mate.Until Hakan reveals.
So far it sounds to be a fun character.
But this is not the right thread for Hakan.
Soon i guess.

Posted by yaaboy1993 on February 28, 2010 at 7:15 p.m. #91

hakan sounds gay.his voice

Posted by THawk on March 10, 2010 at 10:01 p.m. #92

Sup guys?

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