Street Fighter 4 Tiers — Character Rankings
Last updated on Oct. 6, 2009
Tiers have been and will likely always be a hotly debated topic. Just because a character is a higher tier does not mean you should play them. You're best off picking characters you like because of how they play.
Regardless, some people have disadvantages and the tier rankings do an alright job of outlining these, but DO NOT take the rankings as the final end all be all word about who the best characters are. Think of it more as a loose guideline.
October 2009 Tier Rankings for Street Fighter IV
You'll find a chart below showing roughly who would win how many games out of 10 if two high-level players of equal skill played against each other using the characters shown.
For example, M. Bison (Dictator) would win 6 games out of 10 against Crimson Viper. And Sagat would win 7 games out of 10 against Zangief.
Note: All of the names below are based off of the American release of the game. Balrog is the Boxer, Vega is Claw and so on.
| |
S A G A T |
B A L R O G |
R U F U S |
R Y U |
B L A N K A |
Z A N G I E F |
A K U M A |
S E T H |
C H U N - L I |
B I S O N |
V I P E R |
H O N D A |
G O U K E N |
K E N |
R O S E |
A B E L |
D H A L S I M |
F E I L . |
G U I L E |
C A M M Y |
S A K U R A |
G E N |
F U E R T E |
V E G A |
D A N |
T O T A L |
| SAGAT | - | 6 | 6 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 7 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 7 | 7 | 146 |
| BALROG | 4 | - | 5 | 5 | 6 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 7 | 133 |
| RUFUS | 4 | 5 | - | 4 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 7 | 7 | 133 |
| RYU | 5 | 5 | 6 | - | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 7 | 133 |
| BLANKA | 4 | 4 | 5 | 5 | - | 7 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 4 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 7 | 7 | 131 |
| ZANGIEF | 3 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 3 | - | 4 | 2 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 7 | 5 | 7 | 5 | 7 | 6 | 7 | 6 | 6 | 7 | 131 |
| AKUMA | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | - | 6 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 4 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 7 | 130 |
| SETH | 4 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 8 | 4 | - | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 7 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 130 |
| CHUN-LI | 4 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | - | 6 | 4 | 6 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 7 | 129 |
| M. BISON | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 4 | - | 6 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 7 | 124 |
| C. VIPER | 4 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 4 | - | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 7 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 122 |
| E. HONDA | 3 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 6 | - | 5 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 6 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 6 | 117 |
| GOUKEN | 4 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | - | 5 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 117 |
| KEN | 4 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | - | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 117 |
| ROSE | 4 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 5 | - | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 6 | 116 |
| ABEL | 4 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | - | 5 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 114 |
| DHALSIM | 5 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 6 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | - | 5 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 114 |
| FEI LONG | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 3 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 5 | - | 5 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 114 |
| GUILE | 3 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 3 | 5 | 6 | 3 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 5 | - | 6 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 113 |
| CAMMY | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 3 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 4 | - | 4 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 112 |
| SAKURA | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 6 | - | 6 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 110 |
| GEN | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 3 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 4 | - | 5 | 5 | 5 | 108 |
| EL FUERTE | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 4 | 5 | - | 5 | 5 | 108 |
| VEGA | 3 | 4 | 3 | 4 | 3 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | - | 5 | 105 |
| DAN | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 4 | 3 | 3 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | - | 93 |
Translation from this Japanese tier listing.
April 2009 Tier Rankings with Console Characters
| S a g a t |
R y u |
Z a n g i e f |
R u f u s |
B a l r o g |
A k u m a |
B l a n k a |
C h u n L i |
B i s o n |
S e t h |
V i p e r |
K e n |
H o n d a |
G u i l e |
G o u k e n |
R o s e |
D h a l s i m |
F e i L . |
A b e l |
F u e r t e |
C a m m y |
G e n |
V e g a |
S a k u r a |
D a n |
W i n s |
|
| SAGAT | - | 5 | 7 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 7 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 7 | 7 | 7 | 146 |
| RYU | 5 | - | 5 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 7 | 135 |
| ZANGIEF | 3 | 5 | - | 6 | 6 | 4 | 4 | 6 | 6 | 3 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 7 | 7 | 6 | 7 | 7 | 6 | 6 | 7 | 134 |
| RUFUS | 4 | 4 | 4 | - | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 7 | 133 |
| BALROG | 4 | 5 | 4 | 5 | - | 5 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 7 | 132 |
| AKUMA | 5 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 5 | - | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 4 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 7 | 129 |
| BLANKA | 4 | 4 | 6 | 5 | 4 | 5 | - | 5 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 4 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 7 | 6 | 7 | 127 |
| CHUN LI | 4 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | - | 6 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 7 | 127 |
| M. BISON | 4 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 4 | - | 5 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 125 |
| SETH | 4 | 5 | 7 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | - | 3 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 3 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 125 |
| C. VIPER | 5 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 4 | 7 | - | 5 | 4 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 123 |
| KEN | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | - | 6 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 120 |
| E. HONDA | 3 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 6 | 4 | - | 4 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 6 | 4 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 116 |
| GUILE | 3 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 6 | - | 5 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 116 |
| GOUKEN | 4 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | - | 4 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 116 |
| ROSE | 4 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | - | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 116 |
| DHALSIM | 5 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 4 | 5 | - | 5 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 115 |
| FEI LONG | 4 | 4 | 3 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | - | 7 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 115 |
| ABEL | 4 | 4 | 3 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 6 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 3 | - | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 112 |
| EL FUERTE | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 7 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 6 | 5 | 5 | - | 6 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 112 |
| CAMMY | 4 | 4 | 3 | 4 | 4 | 6 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 4 | - | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 111 |
| GEN | 4 | 4 | 3 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | - | 5 | 5 | 5 | 108 |
| VEGA | 3 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | - | 5 | 5 | 107 |
| SAKURA | 3 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | - | 5 | 106 |
| DAN | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | - | 94 |
Tier listing for 2009 — Japanese Arcade Release
This tier ranking was based on the arcade release shortly before the XBox 360 and PlayStation 3 versions of the title were released, as such the home-release only characters are not included.
| Sagat | Ryu | Zang. | Balr. | Bison | Akuma | Chun | Blan. | Rufus | Viper | Ken | Dhal. | Abel | Guile | Honda | Fuerte | Vega | Wins | |
| Sagat | - | 5 | 7 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 7 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 7 | 6 | 7 | 98 |
| Ryu | 5 | - | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 88 |
| Zang. | 3 | 5 | - | 5 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 7 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 86 |
| Balr. | 4 | 5 | 5 | - | 5 | 6 | 4 | 7 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 84 |
| Bison | 4 | 5 | 4 | 5 | - | 5 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 6 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 84 |
| Akuma | 5 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 5 | - | 6 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 84 |
| Chun | 4 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 4 | - | 5 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 83 |
| Blan. | 4 | 5 | 6 | 3 | 4 | 6 | 5 | - | 5 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 82 |
| Rufus | 3 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 5 | - | 6 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 82 |
| Viper | 4 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 4 | - | 5 | 6 | 5 | 6 | 3 | 6 | 6 | 78 |
| Ken | 4 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 5 | - | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 77 |
| Dhal. | 5 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 5 | - | 5 | 6 | 6 | 4 | 5 | 76 |
| Abel | 4 | 4 | 3 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | - | 5 | 6 | 5 | 6 | 75 |
| Guile | 3 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 5 | - | 6 | 6 | 5 | 74 |
| Honda | 3 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 7 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | - | 5 | 5 | 73 |
| Fuerte | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 6 | 5 | 4 | 5 | - | 5 | 69 |
| Vega | 3 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | - | 67 |
Tier listing for 2008 — Japanese Arcade Release
The newer chart above altered these rankings quite a bit. Crimson Viper moved up 4 spots, and several other characters moved or dropped a couple of positions.
| Sagat | Bison | Ryu | Zang. | Akuma | Balr. | Rufus | Blan. | Chun | Ken | Abel | Guile | Dhal. | Viper | Honda | Fuerte | Vega | Wins | |
| Sagat | - | 5 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 7 | 6 | 6 | 7 | 6 | 7 | 96 |
| Bison | 5 | - | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 4 | 6 | 6 | 3 | 6 | 7 | 6 | 6 | 7 | 88 |
| Ryu | 5 | 5 | - | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 88 |
| Zang. | 4 | 5 | 5 | - | 5 | 6 | 5 | 4 | 7 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 7 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 88 |
| Akuma | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | - | 5 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 6 | 82 |
| Balr. | 5 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 5 | - | 5 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 82 |
| Rufus | 4 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 5 | - | 5 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 82 |
| Blan. | 4 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 5 | - | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 4 | 6 | 6 | 81 |
| Chun | 4 | 6 | 4 | 3 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 5 | - | 5 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 81 |
| Ken | 4 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 6 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 5 | - | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 80 |
| Abel | 4 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 5 | - | 6 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 6 | 79 |
| Guile | 3 | 7 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 4 | - | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 77 |
| Dhal. | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | - | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 75 |
| Viper | 4 | 3 | 4 | 3 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | - | 5 | 6 | 5 | 72 |
| Honda | 3 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 6 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | - | 5 | 5 | 72 |
| Fuerte | 4 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 5 | - | 5 | 71 |
| Vega | 3 | 3 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | - | 66 |
Artwork courtesy of GNM LIVE. Contributions to the tier listing by UltraDavid, Henaki, Big_Matt, Bebop3000, Fstrike, FarPlaner and DeathScythe.
Posted by Zenosbleed on February 22, 2009 at 3:20 a.m. #1
This was the most recent tier list from Tougeki Damashii:
S +
Sagat, Viper, Gouki, Zangief
S
Ryu, Bison, Rufus, Blanka
A
Chun li, Vega, Ken, Dalshim, Abel, Honda, Fuerte
B
Balrog, Guile
Balrog, Vega, and Bison are referring to their Japanese names (i.e. Balrog = Claw).
Posted by Voice of Texas on March 2, 2009 at 11:25 a.m. #2
I think it's time we make a revised 360 tier list.
I'll make a quick one right here right now. (In no particular order)The list is based on skill, when true players use them.
God/SPAM Tier (Some skill, Zang and Seth= CHEAP)
Sagat (G/S), Zangief(S), Seth(S)
A Tier (4star)
Ryu, Ken, Chun, Akuma, Gouken, Blanka, Abel, Bison
B Tier (3star)
C.Viper (If used by a good player A) Dhalism, Vega, Guile, Balrog, Gen, Sakura, Cammy
C Tier (2star)
Fei Long (If used by a good player A-B), Rose (If used by a good player B) El Fuerte, E.Honda, Rufus (If used by a good player B)
D. Tier (1star)
Dan (I mean hell, it's Dan Tier...but if used right, you can make him A-C no joke.)
Okay now that's done, it'd be best if people who have played the game take account, to the stamina ratings and speeds, priorities, etc. With that, then you can see why my Tier list is pretty accurate, then with what we know. We can make the match up one, with the following list. So it will be a revised list.
Be sure to ignore infinite and spam combos.
Until then, enjoy and keep playing.
Posted by Havok on March 4, 2009 at 4 a.m. #3
There's a new tier list floating around:
S +
Sagat, Viper, Gouki, Zangief
S
Ryu, Bison, Rufus, Blanka
A
Chun li, Vega, Ken, Dalshim, Abel, Honda, Fuerte
B
Balrog, Guile
Balrog, Vega, and Bison are referring to their Japanese names (i.e. Balrog = Claw).
Posted by ChickofALLEVILZ on April 7, 2009 at 5:04 p.m. #4
im sad.... Ken is even under medium tier...stupid Ryu...
Posted by apex27 on April 8, 2009 at 7:46 a.m. #5
Tier list is not a bible, but a guideline made from someone's opinion of the characters. IMO, my list would be different as I seem to have more trouble against some characters than others, yet VS Sagat I generally do well. I have more trouble with a well played Akuma or Ken than Sagat. I attribute that to my knowledge of Sagat that gives me a better understanding of how to defend against him.
I agree with those that say we should thank Capcom because it is definitely the most balanced fighter I've ever come across. I love the game no matter who I play against, how many times they throw me or fire ball me... I say its another reason to learn how to overcome.
Posted by J on April 9, 2009 at 3:48 p.m. #6
IMO
S+
Sagat
Viper
Ryu
Zangief
Akuma
S
Blanka,
Rufus
Boxer
A
Everybody else that isn't in B
B
Vega
C
Dan
Posted by Voice of Texas on April 14, 2009 at 10:58 a.m. #7
This is an Arcade tier list for the last time.
Also for every idiot out there. Vega isn't low, Dan doesn't suck, Dhalism is terrible, Akuma is weak regarding Health as is Seth, Cammy is good but not amazing, Sakura is GREAT but has a few flaws. El Fuerte and Abel are also good.
Want to know how I know, I'm undefeated in ranked. I play many people, they agree when we discuss during a match, want to prove me wrong. Get ranked scrubs.
Posted by teigen on April 14, 2009 at 2:37 p.m. #8
^^^
Big whoop. You can beat scrubs on ranked, so you MUST be right.
And you think Dhalsim is bad. You are obviously SO educated. Stop acting like you are so high and mighty because you can beat the terrible people online.
Posted by Lame on April 15, 2009 at 5:07 p.m. #9
In the right hands every character has the potential to be great.
Posted by Voice of Texas on April 15, 2009 at 8:10 p.m. #10
I'm wrong Dhalsim is God tier.
Posted by Brainsplitter on April 19, 2009 at 12:35 p.m. #11
this doesn't tell you the whole story though. i've seen Guile players beat monstrous Sagats and Dhalisms totally outclass Giefs...
Posted by tier shmier on April 20, 2009 at 9:50 p.m. #12
tier's change waaay too often...
besides... it doesnt seem like i lose due to tier.. but more of not knowing character matchups.
Posted by sleepyedgar on April 21, 2009 at 5:09 p.m. #13
the tier list DOES matter at the end of the day...
unless you play with noobs all day or maybe a genius that learned alot of new tactics against bad matchups
Posted by sleepyedgar on April 21, 2009 at 6 p.m. #14
LAWL:ZOMG!!!!!! I R KENZ SRK FIREEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Please explain why does the tier list "dont mean squat"?
and "tier lists is only for nublets" doesn't even make sense cuz they all suck and don't know the match-up
Posted by Deuce on April 21, 2009 at 7:24 p.m. #15
i dont think Cammy losses to Bison. She can stuff his Air game with Air throws and her godly cannon spike. Bison is forced to a ground game where he can get very predictable
Cammy can also really stuff Chun-Li too. The health knock doesn't help chun much either since Cammy hits like a truck
Posted by 123456 on April 21, 2009 at 9:46 p.m. #16
the point of tier lists are to show indication on how well characters do against each other when play by two EQUALLY skilled people. The people who developed the tiers are PROFESSIONAL players who know what they are doing, not flowchart Kens
Guaranteed that if a pro plays Dan, he would probably beat a scrubby Sagat or a flowchart Ken.
Posted by MrWasabi on April 21, 2009 at 9:53 p.m. #17
Abel has an advantage on Vega (Claw)? Anyone want to explain that? I always have trouble against Claws who spam and mix-up the triangle jump.
Posted by i think the japanese teir is better on April 21, 2009 at 10:52 p.m. #18
Tier listing for 2009 — Japanese Arcade Release is more accurate in my opinion.
wtf with April 2009 Tier Rankings with Console Characters
i saw that m.bison vs guile is 4/10 and i knew this was a sick joke.
i was a guile player and i stop using him because he got one of the lowest pioritly in the game and i started to use m.bison instead. and im doing 100 times better with him than guile. m.bison Normal moves, special,super and ultra all beats guile normal,special,super and ultra so i dont get how he would lose to him. tell me. i dont get it.
now get this, some of m.bison normal would go through guile special moves so that is another advantage and guile ultra and super is the most hardest ultra in the game compare to just double half circle or charge back and forth ultra.
Posted by DevinAmir1 on April 21, 2009 at 11:04 p.m. #19
Why would it matter how hard it is to do Guile's super/ultra? These are professionals who do this, not newbies who cant do the moves consistently.
Posted by tenorchamp on April 22, 2009 at 12:30 a.m. #20
Hmmm still a little early on the list but oh well. As far as console characters go still need some time, as new strategies develop.
Posted by Gospel_au on April 22, 2009 at 4:45 a.m. #21
The points difference between highest and lowest character is now 54. That's a bit too much, rather unbalanced.
Posted by they call me the bob on April 22, 2009 at 4:55 a.m. #22
the points difference between the highest and lowest "real" characters is now 40, though. Dan is not a serious characters and no one in their rightful mind will ever main Dan and become a high level player as he was never intended to be played that way.
I find it weird that Akuma, the character that I currently main, according to this chart is at a disadvantage against Cammy. if anyone could tell me why this is (I've never played a decent Cammy), then please do tell me. otherwise this list seems pretty accurate.
Posted by blahblah on April 22, 2009 at 5:18 a.m. #23
@they call me the bob
Cammy can so wreck Akuma... No Joke. Her Spiral Arrows easily go under his air fireballs. And fighting a Cammy with any EX is horrible for Akuma, bacause you cant spam Hadokens, and Akuma's low stamina doesnt help either.. Thats the way i see it.
Posted by KenDeep on April 22, 2009 at 7:06 a.m. #24
Man, they messed up Fei Longs Match Ups TOTALLY. Like, how to come that Fei Long has only an disadvantage of 4 to 6 against Sagat? How come he is at a disadvantage with rufus to 3 to 7?
Posted by Kanped on April 22, 2009 at 10 a.m. #25
Damn... I main Sakura with Cammy as an alt. I know they don't really mean very much because I'm not at the level where it'll really matters yet, but still, I don't like to be at a theoretical disadvantageright from the offest (and hit-priority is really important for me because I'm quite aggressive). I can use Zangief and Ryu quite well, so maybe I should put in more practice with those guys and use them more often.
Posted by ewgf-mishima-style on April 22, 2009 at 10 a.m. #26
I knew Long would not be higher than mid tier, but hes not even mid tier -.- And sagat is indeed f****in overpowered with his superior offensive and defensive oportunities. Tigershot spams and l.kick tigerkneespam connected to whatever that sagat player likes...alwasy have a hard time beating that guy...and he still has got 1100 stamina?...oh please :( fortunately I have a second main: Ryu
Posted by Panda on April 22, 2009 at 2:48 p.m. #27
Dan at bottom? Rose NOT bottom? Gen? Seth?
No. Just NO. Dan doesn't have NEARLY that many 7-3 matches. Outside of balrog, blanka, and E. Honda, I don't think any actually exist.
Seth loses 3-7 to el fuerte? Lol.
Fei long has the best focus and best dash in the game, and he's low tier?
It's pretty clear that more tourney data will need to be compiled before the console characters find their correct place on the list.
Posted by Azuro on April 22, 2009 at 6:18 p.m. #28
Panda...Dan is pretty much perfectly placed. He has to be played rushdown because he has no distance game, and because his normals are too slow to keep pressure, given his block advantages...he sucks at that. His ONLY positive advantage is EX Gadouken...so I guess that would make it semi useful on block. Everything else goes for neutral or worse. He deserves that spot, IMO.
I agree with Rose not being close to bottom, though.
Jersey, Guile is low tier because once you get the lead, he can't do much to try and get it back, nor does he have a way to really even get the lead.
Posted by Bracket Man on April 23, 2009 at 3:37 a.m. #29
@ Panda... sure fei's focus attack is fast, as are his dashes. but what else does he have? every one of his specials causes him to commit, leaving him WIDE OPEN for punishment. If you opponent is fast enough they can punish you for blocked rekkas and such. He has to rely heavily on normals, and we all know SF4 is not a footsie-friendly game because of the annoying links and what-not. His command throw is brutal joke played on him by the game's designers, and his chicken wing not armor-breaking is almost criminal.
I'd say he's adequately placed.
Posted by Stop The Spam on April 23, 2009 at 5:23 a.m. #30
Hey LAWL shut up and stop spamming like a little bitch! Tiers are useful TO AN EXTENT! They do have an impact on the game weither you like it or not. I'm not saying people's character choices should be made based on a tier, but it does help figure things out. So shut the hell up and stop spamming you stupid little douchebag!
Posted by Kangarou on April 23, 2009 at 10 a.m. #31
Every tier list, Viper slowly creeps up higher and higher...
Posted by Looneytunes on April 23, 2009 at 10:15 a.m. #32
There's almost no point talking about why a character is in a certain tier, these lists are gonna change alot, remember how it took Dhalsim like ten years to get to top tier in Street Fighter II? Pick your character because you like them, don't moan that they are lower in the tiers and please don't tell us how good you are because these lists are based on High Level Tournament Play, X-Box Live is not high Level play. Don't get me wrong there are good players online but c'mon not exactly Valle or Ed Ma
Posted by Madman on April 23, 2009 at 9:57 p.m. #33
ur gonna tell me with a straight face that a Dan would go 5-5 with Abel?
Well i just refuse to believe that
How dare you insult Abel
Posted by sleepyedgar on April 24, 2009 at 7:31 a.m. #34
dont get me wrong but the only thing that Dan doesn't have is good hadoukens beyond that he plays just like shoto
Posted by LooneyTunes on April 24, 2009 at 8:09 a.m. #35
Dan has more health than all the other shoto's too! He's just a joke character, i think he's hilarious! I seen a vid of some guy using Dan against Cammy, Dan did that super taunt where he does all the roly poly's which baited the Cammy player to pull her Ultra only for Dan to then pull his ultra for the win, funny stuff! Type 'Dan Madness Street Fighter IV' into youtube it's hilarious!
Posted by moe5000 on April 24, 2009 at 5:29 p.m. #36
beside the consle characters everyone is even, the tier does mean much u could play el feurte and murder a sagat player
Posted by Turong on April 24, 2009 at 8:47 p.m. #37
I was wondering how guile is a 4 against akuma and ryu. The weakest point of these matchups imo is that their hurricane kick punishes the sonic boom really easy. Other than that guiles air throws outprioritize everything they can do in the air (other than akuma's air fireballs but usually you'll go over them) and other than that just make sure you can stay close and avoid the corners. Just my opinion though.
Posted by they call me the bob on April 26, 2009 at 5:57 a.m. #38
@blahblah: sorry for the late response, but @ your "Cammy avoids Akuma's fireballs" comment: you're making it seem like all Akuma has is fireball spamming. no good Akuma player will just jump up into the air and spam fireballs whenever he can; he will wait a little between each fireball, be they air, ground or red, and mix them up so that Cammy can't just blow through them with her EX attacks. Akuma's stamina may be the second worst in the game, but it's actually not THAT bad. he also has several defensive moves at his disposal to help him avoid damage and corner traps. (teleport, air hurricane kick, EX shoryuken etc etc.)
sorry, but I just don't buy it just yet.
Posted by Sayad. on April 27, 2009 at 3:22 p.m. #39
Akuma sucks in this game
Sagat is rightly placed ( My Fave :D )
Vega is a good Char but you guys are s hit with him
Dans not too bad :S
Posted by j2nkzt on April 27, 2009 at 9:27 p.m. #40
all characters have their pro's and con's. it all realli
depends on personal preference and gameplay.
im a defensive to offensive style player, so my top pick
is obviously guile, with fair damage anti aerials and of course his s.boom to connect his attacks with when u go offensive.
i cant comment much on other characters, since i base 95% of my play time with guile, but i have to note sakuras delay with her dragon punch is quite annoying.
Posted by Kriegdrache on April 28, 2009 at 2:57 a.m. #41
You know what?
Screw this tier list. I mained Dan since the home release and just because he's on the bottom doesn't mean I'm gonna stop.
Saikyo forever, tourneyfriends.
SAIKYO. FOREVER!
Posted by Anonymous on May 5, 2009 at 10:56 a.m. #42
Could you guys add vertical highlighting too? It'd make grid referencing a lot easier.
Posted by DA MAN on May 7, 2009 at 8:22 a.m. #43
Wow Seth right in the middle tier. I can see why though since he can combo like a mad man.
Posted by Fumn on May 9, 2009 at 12:24 p.m. #44
Well, I have over 1300 matches underneath my belt, and the teir list from my veiw is practically perfect. Although i would say that Seth has a 8 or 9 advantage against a Geif. As a seth as my main his advantage over geif is just ridiculous. you can easily go perfect on a geif with a sonic boom to standing hp. His lariat is easily punished by a standing hp. Not only that, but you can actoually beat him in a grab fight with ur spd.
I also think that rufus and balrog should be an equal fight, spamming booms with tele's and ur air game, its hard for either of them to get close, also seth's ultra punishes an ex buffalo rush or messiah kick.
Posted by nick on May 10, 2009 at 9:56 a.m. #45
i think veg has more to offer than guile, and if u know how to use him right, he can be good. hes got alot of the same sort of moves as guile,and more, but he just cant shoot projectiles like sonic booms
Posted by george on May 10, 2009 at 10:39 a.m. #46
@nick
guile does not have as many specials but what he lacks there he more than makes up for with his regular attacks, he has some of the best normals in the game! i sympathize with claw players but all you can do is quit complaining and prove this tier list wrong by rising above these odds!
Posted by Tom on May 10, 2009 at 2:22 p.m. #47
Remember when people said this game was balanced with 17 characters only having 30 pt difference in tiers?
Well now that we are at 3rd strike character totals, the number rose to 52. Congrats people who said this game was balanced. This is no different then any other sf. Unbalanced gameplay is where this game lies.
Posted by Mew on May 10, 2009 at 5:04 p.m. #48
Take away Dan and it looks better at 38.
Posted by Madness on May 12, 2009 at 3:51 p.m. #49
I think the tier list should be the other way around with Guile and Sagat. Guile is going to be a naturally smarter, more patient and analytical player which means his counters to tigershot are more likely to work by far. He won't easily be baited into sagats ultra setups and uppercuts...can't see him losing 7 out of 10.
Also, why the hell would blanka do so badly against him? Pretty strange how Blanka can eat fireball users for lunch and somehow has a disadvantage against them. Hmm...
Posted by The Kid on May 12, 2009 at 4:19 p.m. #50
I find it wierd that abel loses 7/10 times to fei long. Can anyone explain this?
Posted by bla on May 13, 2009 at 11:01 a.m. #51
@ The Kid
I'm pretty sure this tier list was made when Fei Long's chicken kick (or whatever it's called) was not nerfed, like it was when the championship patch came on...so Fei Long had that infinite against Abel.
Posted by C.V. on May 18, 2009 at 2:46 p.m. #52
I don't see Viper vs Sagat 5-5. Viper has to work pretty hard to win this matchup.
Posted by M.B. on May 18, 2009 at 7:56 p.m. #53
I noticed that guile is 6/10 against bison, thats good but probably not correct.
Posted by Madness on May 19, 2009 at 1:36 a.m. #54
Guile would have a distinct advantage vs balrog also, just goes to show you how inaccurate tiers can be as a set in stone guide
Posted by Dasvanu- on May 26, 2009 at 8:04 p.m. #55
@ C.V.
Viper wins all exchanges with Sagat from mid to full screen, Sagat's lack of speed and Viper's Godlike mobility only help her to keep that distance
Posted by Aylear on May 28, 2009 at 11:04 p.m. #56
I'm still waiting for the list to settle. People are still getting into the game, and it'll take some time before all the characters are explored. Gen, for instance, I feel is a stronger character than his current placement suggests (4th from the bottom), just as I knew Viper was stronger than HER early placement suggested.
I enjoy tier lists, but I'm definitely not a proponent of making them this early. To believe any tier list written just a couple of months into the game's life span to be accurate is folly.
Posted by IllusionSpark on May 31, 2009 at 7:02 a.m. #57
Best thing about tierlists is they also indicate whose more likely to be played the most. The characters lower the tierlist have a bunch of strategies and set-ups most people don't know about because they're stuck on Sagat and Ryu like characters.
Posted by joey2time on June 2, 2009 at 6:41 p.m. #58
I don't care what a dumb tier says. No 2 people are same skilled. How would you determine that? How can you possibly say a Ryu player is the same as a Blanka player? I get that this tier is about not just arcade playing arcade and it is supposed to show people vs people but honestly if you believe that this tier tells the truth and no matter what sagat will beat whoever 6 out of 10 times. Its dumb. ALL THIS SHOWS TO ME IS ARCADE VS ARCADE BECAUSE I DONT BELIEVE THAT YOU CAN DETERMINE A TIER BY PLAYER VS PLAYER BECAUSE THEY ARENT THE SAME.
All you people who think this tier speaks the truth just sucks at street fighter 4 and is that person that sends you a message about how sagat is cheap. All you people can keep on complaining and crying.
Posted by Malditul on July 17, 2009 at 11:39 a.m. #59
Where is the fun part of the game if you pick up your character just for its position on a tier list?
I don't think tiers are wrong but I know for MY OWN experience that Sagat and Ryu are easy characters since SF2 and that's why a lot of people are choosing then.
I think you should choose your favorite character and have fun with it, maybe you will lose maybe you will win, choose Sagat just for a tier list and you will face the truth "maybe you will lose maybe you will win" but if it isn't your favorite character that will hurt you more.
I play Cammy and can beat Ryu-Ken 80% of the time. Sagat is difficult if it is in the right hands, yeah PLAYER SKILLS COUNTS.
If you play as everyone else just to win 100% of the time based on someone else experience then declare your self a winner and save your time and just don't play the game.
Baby, we are on drugs.
Posted by joeyy2time on July 20, 2009 at 8:49 p.m. #60
i feel the tier list is going to change and a new number one character is going to be called out and everyone can start bitching about how its cheap to use him. i don't think there was 1 sagat main in the finals at evo so how can anyone say sagat is too good. if he was the best no questions asked there would be a pro out there that would be unstoppable in tournaments. at least thats what complainers make it seem like should happen. i can't wait to see a new tier list and im hoping sagat isnt number 1 so i can have all these complainers off my back about using sagat.
Posted by Teh Fanboy on July 21, 2009 at 7:22 a.m. #61
tbh I have to agree with the comments on Sagat being overrated. I main Sagat and sub Rose n Viper, and I've gotta say that I'm more afraid of facing a good Zangief, or Cammy than I am of Sagat (Even more so when playing as Rose/Viper). This initial Console tier is gonna change in a big way I'm sure of that...
Posted by me on July 28, 2009 at 12:24 a.m. #62
@sean I don't think they are going to ban sagat dude. Look how NO sagats even made it to top 8 at EVO, and it's not like nobody good played him (paul and l.i. joe for example). I know people will say "ooh, american sagats suck, japanese sagats are the best, mago is god blah blah". Mago is good, and he has the highest BP ranking but that doesn't mean he's the best in Japan. By many accounts, Japan is pretty random and a lot of the top players beat eachother on any given day- so I don't think Japan's BP ranking's are the best indication of who is really the best player or whether a character is OP. People might disagree, but in the end I don't think any of it will lead to him being banned.
Posted by EnormousV on July 29, 2009 at 12:04 a.m. #63
The console tier lists look nice. I think they've got a good idea of the characters tier rankings. The only problem I have is Dhalsim has to be higher than the section he is in. Because he does extremely well against the Sagat and Ryu which are the highest ranked in the tiers so far. Arturo Sanchez's Dhalsim can beat most ppls characters.
Posted by Muffin Man on August 2, 2009 at 12:16 p.m. #64
I personally follow the Japanese list which goes by letter ranks and has Sagat, Gouki, Viper, and Zangief as top but I'll add my two cents and say that Gouki and Viper should at the very least be upper high tier with Gouki on top(though I'd just rather have him in top tier with Sagat)and Viper at the very least above Rufus. Dhalsim should without a doubt be mid and above Chun Li same with Dictator. Lastly, Abel should be slightly higher.
Posted by . on August 7, 2009 at 4:58 p.m. #65
Im surprisedthat Gouki isnt higher on this list, of course he does have horrible stamina but thats not even a problem since he have so many good special moves, and he has the best projectiles in the game.
Posted by d8rk t3mpl4r on August 8, 2009 at 2:59 a.m. #66
most reasons why some characters are not in the top is because there many situations that characters can't use its main moves that and there is a big lob sided disadvantage
cause most people pick Shotos and Sagat is too dam powerfull
Posted by Cannon Revenge on August 17, 2009 at 5:42 p.m. #67
To think that Sakura would be one of the better characters. Seriously, she's the only character in the game (that I know of) that can shave off over 500 health on a single combo that involves only one-fourth of her EX bar (No FADC required). Any Sakura player knows that I'm talking about the EX-Shunpuukyaku->Haru Ranman combo that can be connected in many different ways. This combo is pretty flashy yet, extremely practical. Other strengths include her having one of the best Focus Attacks in the game (I call it the "Athlete's Knee"), consistent anti-air from her c.HP (yeah you'll be surprised how many attacks it can override, and the HORIZONTAL range is even more surprising), and her super-fast EX-Sakura Otoshi (I find it effective for punishing fireball throws from the OPPOSITE side of the screen! She can pretty much use distance as a bait only to shut down anything from that far away)!
Posted by Real Talk Headstomp on August 21, 2009 at 7:04 p.m. #68
Tier List are based on how good the character is.Sagat is hands down the best low risk/high reward char in the game.That being said if you use Sagat in a tournament being the best character you have to know the Sagat match up better or as well than the other person.Which means Sagat isn't losing the people who play with him are due to lack of match up knowledge.And being as the game very balance. note I said very not perfect or even close.Other chars can win.I went to Evo and while they were some really good sagats it seems that japan is where you have to look for top level Sagat play.Top play in general but especially Sagat.And we need some new tiers after evo and sbo.
Posted by I_Main_Seth on August 27, 2009 at 5:37 p.m. #69
@tadaa:
I massacre Zangiefs all the time with my Seth. I can chip him to oblivion with my Dhalism arms and Sonic Boom mixup. If he does sneak up on me (unlikely) I have Dragon Punch tp keep him off me and Teleport to get me out of there altogether.
Posted by lalala on August 27, 2009 at 11:46 p.m. #70
Nah Cammy is easily beaten by Gief, she can only use two moves Standing HK and Jumping HK and the S. HK isn't that safe otherwise her other blocked moved will get her a SPD then on wake up Gief will eat her with mix ups. Cammy just lacks safe stay away pokes. Some top Cammy players choose an alt just to beat Gief.
The Honda one seems wrong vs. Cammy as that seems massively in his favor with Light headbutt being a safe AA or pressure move and his safe hands or throw mix up ground game.
Though I doubt console chars will ever be considered much because Japan doesn't play them.
Posted by ExF MaRiNe on September 5, 2009 at 3:43 p.m. #71
Sagat is good due to his range and priority. figure he is just a mutated Ryu with better range. plus my ocmbos are 10 hits into super... Sagat got his spot for a reason. All you need to use sagat is some very good range estimation and focus dash.
Posted by Steve on September 7, 2009 at 4:01 a.m. #72
I would say now the tier list looks more like :
Sagat
Ryu
Akuma
Balrog
Zangief
Rufus
M Bison
Blanka
C Viper
Chun Li
Ken
Abel
Honda
Dhalsim
Cammy
Gouken
Seth
Fei Long
Guile
Gen
Rose
Elf
Vega
Sakura
Dan
Posted by hobohitman on September 7, 2009 at 4:21 a.m. #73
@steve
Blanka is gonna drop, its to easy to hold down back on him, He has no real mix ups that are worth worrying about. U might be able to say the same about bison aswell, plus he isnt as damaging/dizzying as hes supposed to be.
Dhalsim will prob go u alot. Hes built to runaway and this game favors that style. Plus that air teleport is just ridiculous. ALso maybe gouken will go up, his ultra is the easiest thing to set up plus its very damaging. Add to that his fast recover on projectiles and the counter move and theres no way hes gonna stay were hes at.
Other then that i dont see anything else moving. If u cant give sagat or ryu a fight ur gonna stay where ur at.
Posted by Steve on September 8, 2009 at 3:34 a.m. #74
@ Hobohitman,
Yeah I'd agree with most of those changes. Blanka is being discovered for his tricks and once you aren't caught out by his sneaky throws / balls at high levels you have a point, he isn't too difficult to keep out. Having bad matchups against players who can turtle nicely and keep out like Balrog may see him drop. I can't see it being too crazy though, horizontal balls can only be punished by about half of the cast at the end of the day.
I think Bison will remain where he is because of his amazing normals. Sure, he doesn't have a reliable anti air which prevents him rising, and you could say the same thing about Abel too.
@ Stitch,
Seth is a very hard matchup for Elf for a few reasons. Ex run forces the fight up at close range, and after a couple RSF hits, Seth is basically stunned. Seth has a real problem against anybody tricky enough to get in and invade his space, and Fuerte is fast enough and has the moves to give Seth a real hard time zoning.
@ reasoN
I think it's a question of playstyle, as it doesn't matter how good a character is if he isn't suited to your playstyle then you limit your potential. Plus, the results of most of the recent tournaments suggest that there's certainly the chance for lower tier characters to enjoy some success, just look at how few Sagats win tournaments nowerdays as proof that once you know how pretty much all Sagats play, you can beat them. I don't think you'll get any very-low tier characters having much success, but a 4-5 matchup isn't a substantial disadvantage and it probably won't stop you beating a worse player.
Posted by hobohitman on September 8, 2009 at 7:45 p.m. #75
@steve
Most of the cast(the characters that matter) have something to punish it with. Akuma,abel,chun li, seth and rose can ultra it(i think cammy can, but feel free to add anyone else). Bison,dhalsim,balrog,rufus(i think seths stretchy arms can but im not sure) can punish it for free everytime. Ryu can hit it with super, and i think guiles ex sonic boom can also punish. Now with that siad, all people will have to worry about is short ball into throw, short ball is so slow that teching or jabing it shouldnt be a problem and if they screw up on range and hit just punish it. Blanka is gonna drop like a rock.
And bison has good normals but st.rh isnt going to keep him up there. His combos arent dmging or dizzying. And his ultra setup isnt as reliable as sagat/ryu.
@joeyy2time
All ur gonna do is mash tiger upper cut and lite tiger knee. THeres no point. Plus i have been playing hd remix. Im just keeping up with this game in the hopes that they balance it so retards like u cant pick crutch characters and get wins without effort.
Posted by Steve on September 9, 2009 at 1:59 a.m. #76
@ hobohitman
The fact remains that most of the cast can't punish balls. Added to that, he arguably has a slight advantage against popular characters like Ryu and Ken as well as high tier characters like Gief and Akuma... I don't think he'll drop TOO much... definitely still in that upper-mid tier list.
And about Bison, perhaps I'm biased because a good non-headstomp spamming Bison gives me so much trouble.
Posted by Madness on September 9, 2009 at 2:01 a.m. #77
lol@sagat mains saying that anyone else sucks
As for the tier list, sagat and ryu stay the same as they are very basic and enjoy just about all possible advantages, even ones caused by lag. Balrog rises abit, im not having much trouble with rufus but can't speak for everyone. I'm sure zangief will drop as he's got a hit and miss style, even with gaping exploits my character has available i still expect to beat him unless i choke.
I'd expect blanka and bison to drop abit as they are more trick dependent and some people learn. Gen rises quite abit,gouken rises,cammy probably,dhalsim certainly,probably honda too.
Akuma and seth rise to sit amongst the best in the game,abel and fuerte just below red perhaps??? Lets say feilong,viper,chunli and ken stay the same.
Guile and rose rise maybe one spot just to be above the notorious dan,vega combo. Sakura can be abit fearsome, but wouldnt even know where to put her, definitely not above purple.
Posted by Steve on September 9, 2009 at 3:41 a.m. #78
@ Madness
Yeah I agree with basically all of those changes, most of them I made in my mock tier list a few posts up.
I can actually see Seth falling a few just because I never really see any quality Seth players. He's got some great tools though, but you have to play SO WELL in certain matchups to stand a chance against some of the powerhouses.
Gief will fall for sure, 100%. This list really reflects the time when everybody thought that lariats were impossible to deal with. They're still arguably a touch too strong but now people have less difficulty dealing with them.
I think Gouken will rise too as I have seen a few incredible Goukens in G1 who have really made my jaw drop by comboing into ultras and supers in ways i didnt even know were possible!
The reason Rufus is so high is because of his unbelievably easily combo-able ultra, which is arguably the most important factor in the tier list (see Sagat and Ryu) as well as EX Messiah kick being insanely strong. The fact that he has bad matchups against Shotos REALLY holds him back though.
And yeah, Akuma is the most certain to move up, no question about that.
Posted by hobohitman on September 9, 2009 at 5:16 a.m. #79
@steve
I listed all the ways the cast can punish it. Only a few cant punish the ball(u can count them on one hand), and lets not forget that u can punch him out of it(its really slow in this game). ANd as for him having an advantage against shotos, that isnt true. Spam crouching strong and u will eat most of the blanka balls. And the slide is extremely punishable so all u need to do is stay in the right range to throw fireballs. The only thing that blanka has thats any good is his cross up, but get a guy that knows how to block and tech/reversal(or just mash dps) and it stops geting wins. And short ball into throw will stop cracking higher lvl turtles. The only reason people feel hes so powerful is cause he has an akward fighting style but once u become used to it he stops wining.
As for zangief, i dont see him droping much. He beats the hell out of a big portion of the cast. If u dont have a fireball ur basicly screwed, and with the fireballs not being as dominate in this game zangief gets a big break. He really dont even need to slam to win, his normals are retarded good, add a few well timed lariats and its a wrap.
Posted by Jason on October 5, 2009 at 8:58 a.m. #80
I still disagree that Boxer/Sim is in Boxers Favor....I'd reverse it to be 6/4 Sim. Very difficult to close the distance against a high-tier sim. Boxer Balrog have similar difficulties against him.
Posted by Jason on October 5, 2009 at 8:59 a.m. #81
Er...I meant Boxer/Blanka
Posted by Thamanator on October 5, 2009 at 9:02 a.m. #82
@ hobbs
WTH are you going on about? You wouldn't know balance if it smacked you upside your retarded skull.
Judge balance by average players vs. average players? Just the fact that you even said that tells us all that you are below average and a classic under-achiever mentality.
If "balance' was judged by average vs average(basically neither person knows WTH they are doing) then what would THAT "balance" look like, once one of them had a clue. The only person who would ever come up with an idea like this, is the kind of person I wouldn't want to be related to, hang around, or even work with. A lifetime under-achiever,who thinks that everyone was born, will live, and then die; without ever having a chance to make something of themselves. Pros do not get to be pros by:
#1 Whining about "balance".
#2 Complaining about how they (when they were average) couldn't get ahead. They practiced and got better.
#3 Why don't you try putting your foot in your mouth, WHILE STANDING UP. Then you will finally know the true balance that you seek, young 3 legged grasshopper.
Posted by WULF08 on October 5, 2009 at 9:37 a.m. #83
I THINK PERSON DON'T KNOW HOW STRONG VEGA (CLAW) IS HE IS A MID TIER CHARACTER HE JUST CAN NOT WIN CONSISTENTLY THE SAGAT MATCH UP IS 6-4 IN SAGAT FAVOR NOT 7-3 BECAUSE VEGA HAVE LOTS OF OPTIONS RUFUS IS 5-5, I WILL AGREE BLANKA MATCH IS JUST 7-3, BUT ZANGIEF MATCH UP IS 5-5, THE REST ARE ABOUT RIGHT
DON'T BELIEVE ME FIGHT MY CLAW (SELF PROCLAIM BEST)
Posted by ARJ08 on October 5, 2009 at 10:04 a.m. #84
Ken went down 2 spots, sucks...
Posted by Tirasoul on October 5, 2009 at 10:11 a.m. #85
Am....im totally disagree with the new tier list.
i think the most represantive tier list was the Japaneese 3 months ago.
the list goes like this:
SS:Sagat
S:Ryu,Zangief,*Seth,Akuma
A:M.Bison,Balrog,Rufus,C.Viper,E.Honda,Blanka
B:Dhalsim,Chun Li,Abel,El Fuerte,*Gouken,*Gen
C:Ken,Guile,*Rose,*Cammy,*Feilong,*Sakura,
D:Vega,*Dan
*console characters are my opinion about tier list.
but the rest are from the Arcade tier list from Japan.
i think this tier list is closer to reality than the other.
Posted by DudeMan on October 5, 2009 at 10:20 a.m. #86
People use Ryu and Ken because the mindset is that they are the easiest to learn. You play them online and you realize that they either spam fireballs recklessly or do wakeup shoryukens mindlessly. After that, playing them becomes more predictable. There are some good Ryus and Kens, but I highly doubt most of them.
The reason why Vega was ranked lower than usual was due to how many options were changed in a much more horrible direction. While he can somewhat still play the cheese and quick pokes in the game, his roll comes out too slow, his claw dive lacks range and priority, his anti-air is nearly useless, and he does bad damage unlike the SF2 days even with his mask off. Hell, I played Vega since SF2 Champ Edition and even I have to say he sucks.
El Fuerte is just too hard for players to use. A expert player who dedicates himself to Fuerte can easily own even the Ryu/Sagat players due to unpredictability. In the meantime, Fuerte is the hardest character to use in the game. If the average players focus on using him the most, then he might as well be in the higher rankings. The same can be said about Gen.
Surprised to see Gief get pwned by Seth 2-8. At least it wasn't HD Remix Gief/Akuma 1-9. hehe
Posted by ShinSenkai on October 5, 2009 at 10:23 a.m. #87
Nice.. This Tier List doesn't seem to be THAT inaccurate.. The top 6 I agree with (although I think Ryu should still be 2nd although according to the list he's joint 2nd), the only real question I do have, and I've said from the start, how comes Chun Li is so high? I main Ken and i'm not training with Li, but I find it hard to believe that she can be a A/B Rank above the likes of Bison, Honda etc. Any Li users that would care to explain? =)
Posted by Balrog on October 5, 2009 at 10:27 a.m. #88
Akuma belongs in top tier, and Balrog should maybe drop below Ryu and Rufus. Other than that, it looks right.
Posted by Balrog Again on October 5, 2009 at 10:30 a.m. #89
@Dudeman
You're surprised about the Gief-Seth matchup? Play Gief against any competent Seth, and you will punch a hole in your stick. Twice. I'm surprised its *not* 1-9.
The only reason it's not 0-10, is because IF Gief does catch Seth, it's over for Seth.
Posted by ! on October 5, 2009 at 10:32 a.m. #90
new tierlist is FAIL .
akuma is obviously the next S tier.
Posted by rchan on October 5, 2009 at 10:43 a.m. #91
this tierlist is for US . not for anywhere else...
Posted by chickenwings on October 5, 2009 at 10:44 a.m. #92
I dont agree with this one. The older one seemed a bit more accurate. Honda v ryu 5/5? gief v blanka 3/7 but gief v akuma is 4/6? why blanka so high? most of the cast punishs the ball. Why hasnt dhalsim gone up?
Posted by ELLLLL FUEEERRRRR! on October 5, 2009 at 12:12 p.m. #93
el fuerte isnt that bad. hes fun too
Posted by dnt agree on October 5, 2009 at 1:15 p.m. #94
yo im srry but i dnt agree with dis new tier list
1)seth is too high I litterally just got to guess right 2 times n I win
2)balrog shoulnt go 5-5 with shotos the fireball game is to hard for him imo
Posted by hobohitman on October 5, 2009 at 1:17 p.m. #95
How is blanka/bison 5/5. Bisons pokes beat alot of blankas moves, plus low short stuffs alot of his wake up options. This list sucks.
Posted by Jink on October 5, 2009 at 1:17 p.m. #96
Lol, wow, I can't believe Vega went down to 2nd worst.
The Vega player named Tatsujinken most be feeling very proud, for reaching Top 4, on "The House of Cicada Street Fighter 4 tournament", with a "2nd-worst character."
Props to you, Tatsu, Keep up!
Posted by Tuekanik on October 5, 2009 at 1:18 p.m. #97
I think Gouken is underestimated.
Even if he is a bit slow, he has a lot of options for attack and defense.
I can't understand why I don't fight against him very often online...
Posted by you guys are stupid on October 5, 2009 at 1:20 p.m. #98
This comment is ONLY for the people who look at the tier list saying that balrog and rufus shouldn't be higher than ryu, this just shows how you idiots cannot read a damn tier list. If yall dicks actually read the damn list you would see that they have the same amount of points at 133, lol the only reason why the other to a seemingly ahead because since they have the same points the listed in alphabetical order. geez yall are some stupid dicks, i means i even wonder if yall look at match ups, or just look at the order of the list.
Posted by Jack on October 5, 2009 at 1:24 p.m. #99
Seth is high because he's so f***** cheap, just like Sagat </rant>
Posted by SSJ3X on October 5, 2009 at 1:42 p.m. #100
Well.... at least Sakura went up a bit lol.
Posted by wow on October 5, 2009 at 1:45 p.m. #101
I wonder how exactly these are calculated and WHO does it?!?!
What I would like to see is the tier list made from data accumulated from online matchups, just for teh lulz, y'know?
Where would Ken be... 0_o
Posted by OLDSCHOOLER on October 5, 2009 at 1:55 p.m. #102
i just want to hop on here and agree with a couple cats who are getting hated on for having a decent oppinion. Stop playing ryu and ken over and over and over.. your pathetic people. give it a damn rest. Ryu is my favorite!! period. he is the man.. hell the entire series is based around him, but get off it already. play as someone else once in a while.. and forget the tiers.. as constantly stated by some the smarter chaps, all characters are worth trying and eventually mastering if you like em. hell, i lose to claw more than any other on a percentage level.. cause the cats who know whats up, can work you over. I play rose rather commonly and have gotten to the point in my rank class where almost any ryu, ken or akuma i face gets manhandled.. but come on,,.. i want more than to win.. theres 22 other people.. i mostly only lose to people who fight with those.. and i prefer to lose to fuerte than to stomp the nonsense out of ryu again.
Posted by Igotdembombs on October 5, 2009 at 1:57 p.m. #103
So I main Chun-Li, and I know first hand that Balrog womps Chun-li. Balrog is a harder match then Rufus. Take for example, this 3vs3 match http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEY6Ky...
These ducks decide to have 3 chun-lis on the same team, and get tourn apart by one balrog.
Also, Fuerte is a hard matchup for chun. I remember looking up videos of the top chun-li players in Japan vs Fuertes, I didn't get much though cause they kept losing. Chuns lack of a Shoryuken puts her at a disadvantage. I mean I'm sure there are arguments for Fuerte being in a bad situation vs Chun(I haven't seen them), but it's not a good matchup for chun. Probably 5-5.
Lemme know what you think.
Posted by Ryu Haters on October 5, 2009 at 2:02 p.m. #104
Yall need to stop basing the tier list of your experience, because a lot of you guys would have Ryu winning 8-2 on a lot of these match-ups. This just shows how balance of a char he is, if you dicks, actually look at his match ups their pretty much 5-5, 6-4, across the board except for Dan but that doesn't count because 95% of the roster have a big advantage over dan.
Just because you losers can't even beat a average ryu or sagat, just shows how weak your are don't blame balancing system, because look at the numbers of the MATCH-UPS 5-5,6-4 is pretty any char. can beat beat ryu at HIGH level play in-which the tier list is based off of, not you haters scrubbyness. NO other fighting game tier list that has its SECOND highest rated character with that even of a matchup with 5-5, 6-4 accross the board. NOT tekken NOT blazblu not soul calibur, none.
Now sagat maybe a different story, but i will not go into that, which i find even more funny I'm hearing ppl complain about KEN is too strong and he is in the middle of the tier list, this just shows that you guys have trouble against Shoto's not the ppl who this tier list is based off of, it shows that its not the character that is the issuse its just YOU. for the love of god, street fight been out for 20 years and you losers are still losing the basic shoto tactic from 1992.
YOU are the problem not ryu. Yeah yeah yeah ryu wins a lot of tournaments that's because he is popular. if 90 ryu players enter a tournament by default ryu would win tourney because of the odds, hell if Dan had that many ppl entering tourney he would be up there also, that's the only reason why they win so much because of the odds, that can go any char in this game if they was that popular. Stop hating or just stop playing.
Posted by Violent Lucidity on October 5, 2009 at 2:04 p.m. #105
LOL
Poor Guile. I'm honestly not the least bit surprised to see him sink so low, even below Rose. So, he's 3/10 against Viper and Seth now, eh? Again, not surprising.
Please, Capcom, fix him. At least make Flash Explosion juggle better, like his Super in HD Remix. What were they thinking when they designed his ultra? It's like they just tacked it on as an afterthought.
But how did Blanka get into the blue tier? He's even higher than Akuma, apparently. I thought everyone had figured out all of his tricks.
Posted by tatsu is a scrub on October 5, 2009 at 2:11 p.m. #106
Tatsu only has tricks. If you saw him on the WCW stream, he ate like 5 Boxer Overheads.
I've played him a few times in person and he's OK.. just not as great as everyone makes him out to be. He's a nice guy.. just not as good as everyone makes him out to be.
Posted by TNG on October 5, 2009 at 2:14 p.m. #107
@Violent Lucidity
Here's what I think.
The main reason the high tier chars are up there is their ability to turn a match around. The most common way this would happen, obviously, would be to land an ultra. Blanka has a ultra setup that can literally hit the opponent with a 50/50 chance. There's no way to tell whether it will cross up or not because of the ambiguous arc, the timing the opponent gets up, the positioning of the blanka ultra, etc. A 50% chance to land 600% damage is pretty big. Even if you miss, he does massive chip damage.
Posted by Tirasoul on October 5, 2009 at 2:31 p.m. #108
ive just notice something right now that i believe that this new Tier list Sucks!!!
Akuma vs Cammy = 4-6 loooooooooool
Akuma is one of the most abused and at the same time powerfull characters in the game.the only weak part is his health.
but we have already seen Japaneese Akuma players how they play the character and we know that he is a POWERHOUSE even with his low health.
characters like Rufus which can pressure all the time and do tremendous damage are 5-5 with Akuma and just seen that Cammy is 6 to 4 is simple hillarious.
Cammy's movements can all be avoid/block with a simple crouch.she suffering from focus attacks and ofcourse her setups are so weak and limited.
Akuma is atleest 7-3 to Cammy.
pls cancel this tier list.is SO FUNNY.
i want to say more about characters.especial for Viper but im boring right now.i will only say this: she is one of the HIGH/TOP characters and its silly to watch her mid.yes she is very difficult character but when we talking about tier lists we are talking about advance level only of the characters.
Posted by TIER? on October 5, 2009 at 2:37 p.m. #109
Don't get too caught up in the point total tier (ex. Blanka/Gief). The real measurement is how well the character does against the high tiers. Blanka may do well against the likes of Guile, Ken and Rose but once he meets Sagat or Rog, he's done.
Posted by @635 on October 5, 2009 at 2:39 p.m. #110
yes you are boring right now
Posted by Tirasoul on October 5, 2009 at 2:44 p.m. #111
@#637
"yes you are boring right now"
what do you mean?care to explain this?
Posted by Lol on October 5, 2009 at 2:46 p.m. #112
Tiers don't mean anything to 99+% of people playing.
Posted by Anonymous on October 5, 2009 at 2:59 p.m. #113
Some people need to read better. Boxer Rufus and Ryu are equal. Characters with the same number of points are in alphabetical order.
Posted by Tirasoul on October 5, 2009 at 3:02 p.m. #114
@Lol
"Tiers don't mean anything to 99+% of people playing."
tiers mean nothing to noob people.
not to people who plays the game seriously.
Posted by shannaro!!! on October 5, 2009 at 3:11 p.m. #115
@#635
Here's my way of seeing it. So far, Akuma mostly has either an advantage or is evenly matched to every single character in the game other than Cammy. Why is that? Well, Akuma either rushes down his opponents with dive kicks, and L.Hurricane Kick set-ups, or bombards them with air-fireballs and multi-hitting fireballs. Cammy, in the other hand, has this advantage over him mainly because of two things:
1)Between Akuma and Cammy, it is Cammy who is better at rush-down thanks to her speed and move-set by default.
2)Cammy, like Viper, is an anti-zoning character!
Simply to put, Cammy's attributes are often more likely to shut Akuma's down than not. Cannon Spike eats Akuma's dive kick alive; Spiral arrow can EASILY go under his air-fireballs; and her EX-Spiral Arrow, Spin Knuckle, Super, and Ultra goes through very projectile he throws at her. Also, Akuma's weak health make it so that all of Cammy's combos hit like a truck. In other words, Akuma needs to work harder to win againts Cammy compared to every other character in the game.
Posted by wtf future? on October 5, 2009 at 3:44 p.m. #116
how the eff r ppl with comments at the top of the page posting on october 19 etc. its only the 5th LOL ppl from the future had to come back and bring their msgs
Posted by aaa on October 5, 2009 at 3:46 p.m. #117
cant believe balrog is #2. i think akuma is at the least S tier
Posted by seanomega on October 5, 2009 at 3:47 p.m. #118
Guile OVER Gouken= INSANE!!!! Who makes these things???
Posted by cuttyb87 on October 5, 2009 at 5:19 p.m. #119
Zangief is way better than seth and his lariat can take out many people especially seth and seth can't trade with that lol
Posted by yes4me on October 5, 2009 at 5:49 p.m. #120
When I play Guile, and I have rarely ever lost with him...
Posted by JohnJohnson on October 5, 2009 at 7:23 p.m. #121
Honda is right in the middle of the list. Now, I don't care that much for tier, but I think its weird is so high. I thought he be right where Dalshim is. Don't know why but I guess it's because I don't see him that often, heck I don't even play with him ever, that I get that impression. hmm... Any thoughts on Honda anyone?
Posted by Stitchlink on October 5, 2009 at 7:40 p.m. #122
Damn Vega's still bottom tier, I hope they re-balance him a bit in SSF4, like higher damage in a couple moves and (this probably won't happen), make his ultra useful hard input, little damage, and not a lot of ways to land it make it nearly useless, I cry at night because im a vega player! WHY MUST HE SUCK IN THIS GAME WWWHHHHHAAAAA!!!!!But if they add Dudley in SSF4 ill play him instead =) *hint* *hint* capcom.
Posted by massi4h on October 5, 2009 at 8:15 p.m. #123
For the past few months akumas been called 2nd/3rd, but this list chucks him 7th in the 3rd tier...
Posted by PainKiller on October 5, 2009 at 8:30 p.m. #124
man...zangief is losing his space, I kinda knew it tho, who says gief x ryu is 50/50 is crazy imo
Posted by Madness on October 5, 2009 at 8:30 p.m. #125
DAAAAAAAMN lol look at how high blanka is!! I guess alot of people still think his ultra is unblockable. Seriously though...i cannot believe he's that high! I swore he would drop....that's just crazy!! lol
Guile dropped? I guess most people online are the type i come across that just sonic boom and then back up to the corner...this list is entertaining
Posted by DeLUCIFER on October 5, 2009 at 8:57 p.m. #126
yeah. blanka should not be that high. and they lest the blanka vs. sim match at 6-4 blanka? how the hell is that match in blankas favor?
Posted by WG on October 5, 2009 at 9:23 p.m. #127
stop complaining in the release of ssf4 their is balances as the producers have taken into account how sagat and ryu are 'overpowered'
Posted by sinjii [a vega user] on October 5, 2009 at 9:26 p.m. #128
dhalism is btter than vega becuz his arms and legs dont fall off like vega's claw to affect his range
and when vega's mask falls off his stamina is lower than dhalism's
also vega's way to get to dhalism's are his walldives
but a foward dash by dhalism will make him safe
and since the recovery of vega's walldive is retarded
he will still get punished by dhalism range.
a great vega player will hav a hard time vs a good dhalism player
but anyway i'll keep playing vega no matter what
its been my character since sf2
dont plan to stop just becuz of a tier list
-sinjii
Posted by Tirasoul on October 6, 2009 at 1:16 a.m. #129
@shannaro!!!
i can see from what you ve said that it is another point of view.
i agree with the most of them but....
....dont forget that in a high advance game an Akuma player knows about that.and since Cammy is an offencive character Akuma will be blocked most of her attacks especially with a turtle system and ofcourse combine his teleport and his pressure game will be cornered Cammy eventually.
think about this.on focus on Cammy at her spiral arrow....Raging Demon.
also Cammy and the other console characters are not in the Arcade version so we dont know how the Japaneese players are going to play this match up.
im still believe that the favour is with Akuma.
you ve said that his Dive can be knock out from the Canon spike.but this is just a comparison with the moves.not a fact to a vs battle.
Akuma's dive can be defeated from shoryuken generally, or from good anti airs.and also Cammy's Canon spike can defeat Rufus Dive kick...Does this mean that Cammy can defeat Rufus????
think about that.
Posted by IrPanda on October 6, 2009 at 1:43 a.m. #130
It should be 4-6 Gouken - Dictator, ask any good gouke player.
The rest for him is arite i guess.
Posted by IrPanda on October 6, 2009 at 2:01 a.m. #131
@Tirasoul
Thats like saying all they have to do is block all day, eventualy akuma would have to acttack and when he does he is very suseptable to acttacks from cammy.
Posted by Tirasoul on October 6, 2009 at 4:47 a.m. #132
@IrPanda
am....street fighter always have this play style since its beginning.
this turtle mode which player can take the chance to hit with something powerfull to do damage or some attack to pressure things.
some characters are a little more offencive than some others.
but Cammy has this major problem that if she is stays to much long at defence the worst scenario is that she is going to lose.
thats why she must keep some pressure to the opponent just because her style is more offencive than other characters.
but Akuma has many tools to keep distance,pressure and hit from far range and ofcourse combos from everywhere.
you said here..."eventualy akuma would have to acttack and when he does he is very suseptable to acttacks from cammy."
am....i dont understand why to attack Cammy.he has the advantage from far away.Cammy must attack all the time.
and let me remind you the benefits of Akuma's play style.
1)a lots of projectiles with different use.
2)teleport that can escape even from the most difficult setups.
3)3 frame shoryuken like Ryu's.the best shoryuken in SF4 with follow up.
4)combos from everywhere (like i said)
5)mix up game after his projectiles
6)raging demon from a focus attack
and is more...but with these tools what Cammy can do to Akuma since its a character that most of her moves are suffering from focus and with just crouching can blocked all of her moves and some can be punished really hard.
give me an example not the kind that you ve said like Akuma eventually will attack to Cammy and other stuff like that.
give me the exact play style that Cammy can do to Akuma to destroy him.
so far im not seeing something that change the facts.
yes she has speed.yes she can go under Akuma's air projectiles(Blanka can also get throw projectiles with his EX and Rose can reflect them but thats doesn't mean anything).but that can't change the fact that Akuma can play in a different way Cammy.less Air projectiles and ofcourse more turtling style from his side.Cammy will attack in any case.
Posted by Poe22222 on October 6, 2009 at 5:30 a.m. #133
Only thing that I am confident is wrong is Akuma's placing. Every great player I know thinks Akuma is second behind Sagat if not number one. People are just blinded by his health and supposedly weak Ultra. I mean think about it... Akuma has the second best runaway game, best fireballs, insane combos, very good, fast normals, blazing walking speed, some of the best mixups, good focus attack, and oh yeah, his ultra does 50-70%.
Posted by Obeast on October 6, 2009 at 5:46 a.m. #134
LOL at all the people taking it like a personal attack over Blanka's higher tier ranking. It's as if this new ranking automatically makes Blanka defeat all their characters.
As many people have said, read the beginning of the post. I've been maining with Blanka from the start when he was near-godlike, then dropped like a stone when people found all the counters, and judging from the rankings, players have readjusted and found new tricks to play with.
The point is, I play with Blanka because I ENJOY it. him sinking or rising in the rankings does not affect my fun one iota. Unless one is playing for tournaments (in which case you should just play all Sagat, all the time) this is the best way to look at the tiers. Ultimately, so what? If your Ryu/Dhalsim/Aunt Millie can apparently wipe the floor with Blanka, more power to you. Why should this tier even matter?
Btw, as a Blanka player, yes, the hori Ball is pretty much a liability at this point. I've had to deepen my play to incorporate electricity, pokes, footsies, and even the coward crouch into my bag of tricks. If top players have been doing the same, maybe THAT'S why he's #5.
Posted by hahaha on October 6, 2009 at 5:57 a.m. #135
rofl at people who post how hard it is to use Ryu.
The game designers have publicly stated on multiple occasions that he is deliberately made easy to use as a way to introduce players to the game mechanics.
Posted by Kuya on October 6, 2009 at 6:15 a.m. #136
Some of these are really off. What is going on here? How in the world you getting this stats?
Like half of Blanka's match-ups are wrong in this favor...especially vs Sim...it should be 6-4 for Sim..
Most of Ryu's 5-5 should be 6-4 in his favor..
When did Rose start to have advantage against Honda & Gouken? lol...
This is so BS..
Posted by shannaro!!! on October 6, 2009 at 6:53 a.m. #137
@663
I see what you mean. Yes, Akuma really does have a very good run away, no? And yes, a smart Akuma player can defenitely punish Cammy if she makes a mistake. Still Though, a smart Cammy player also knows how to get around Akuma's tactics. Remember, the tier up there assumes that the players are of "equal skill"...
Posted by ShinSenkai on October 6, 2009 at 9:35 a.m. #138
I posted earlier but I never got a reply :/.. I was just asking, how comes Chun Li is so high?.. I know she's a good character, but I don't understand why she is so high :S
@ all Akuma comments -
Based on what I experience on PSN, I agree with some of you that Akuma could very well be 2nd if not first.. He is probably the best zoner in the game and like many people said, has the 2nd best runaway game (although I don't know who's actually better at that than him). He's powerful, full of combos, very good mix up game etc.
About higher tier list -
I said before that I thought Ryu should be second as he is currently joint second but now I've considered Akuma, I'd reconsider that. However, Blanka is certainly too high as is Gief.. Yeah that sounds crazy, and yes he is a bitch to fight, but his general game is being found out and countered more. Sure if he catches you then you're pissed but its more of a case IF he can catch you. Akuma on the other hand has a number of ways he can get the upper hand.
Posted by Tirasoul on October 6, 2009 at 10:02 a.m. #139
@#674
exactly.they both are skilled and play advance level game.
think of it like Daigo vs Mago.
oh read what ive wrote at #669
Posted by come on man on October 6, 2009 at 10:03 a.m. #140
@ #675
Tier list are not based of on PSN or Xbox live experience, so whatever you and your friends experience online do not factor in tier list.
Posted by Madness on October 6, 2009 at 11:06 a.m. #141
Online is the only possible place blanka can be that high. All the kids that fall for the same old tricks lose to him constantly and claim he is overpowered when he could actually use a few buffs(and this is coming from a guile player)
Online is also the only place dhalsim is going to be that low. And rose's online are really good because they HAVE to be in order to win, so that's why she's higher.
Really, online is the only place the list makes any sense at all.
Posted by IrPanda on October 6, 2009 at 12:14 p.m. #142
@Tirasoul
She has the ability to go through most of akumas moves , she can cannon drill him when he does air hadoken , ex cannon drill for the ground one or the spin move, if he rush, he cannon spike is great to get him off, if he teleports with a well timed 3/4 p ex move she can catch him. Akuma has no real advantage over he except for the fact that he has better combos but they both take down around same amount of life from each other because akumas life is so low. And he can't zone her properly because she can counter most if not all of his zoning moves.
@cutty
Seth trashes Geif all most all the time all seth has to do is stay away and it is VERY HARD for geif to catch him once the seth is a competent play. If Gief didn't have that head butt the match up may have been 8-2, all seth has to do is boom and hp from a distance until geif is dead.
@To all you who are saying this person is better than that , the tier list (imo) is not that they just show you which match up are better, like blanka has alot of good match ups because it is difficult to get him on him because he has such a good defensive game.
Posted by IrPanda on October 6, 2009 at 12:17 p.m. #143
@cutty
my bad it is 8-2 lol, well then it would of been 9-1 >_> lol, next time i see you online i'll show you what i mean.
Posted by @all on October 6, 2009 at 2:26 p.m. #144
I don't know why everyone's all excited over tiers. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't all this compiled from the match ups between the highest ranking players from tournaments and such (much like nohoho's stats from way back). So unless you're claiming to be so skilled that the only thing against your favor is the character match up, then it doesn't really apply all that much. Chances are you're losing cause it's you and not the match up.
Posted by Garuda on October 6, 2009 at 3:08 p.m. #145
I find it funny how Dan and Vega have SH** tiers of their own.
Posted by Valter on October 6, 2009 at 3:17 p.m. #146
I've been a Vega user since SF2 and Alpha. I don't see any reason why he's been nerfed so tremendously in SFIV. His flying claw attack should do much more damage than it does. An expert Vega player can lose to a novice Zangief, Sagat, or Ryu simply because of Vega's lack of move priority. His Stamina/health should never go down simply because of his mask, that was the worst implication to the game. The damage boost given after 2 bars of super use for the EX-mask throw isn't near enough as it should provide for him to stay in the game.
Posted by Stitchlink on October 6, 2009 at 3:24 p.m. #147
@sinjii
Vega and dhal are very different characters and have there own strengths and weaknesses,when vega looses his claw his range is only depleted slightly and if he looses his mask the drop in health is only about a 1% drop (or at least it seems like that)
http://www.justin.tv/clip/f194b294baa...
Two very high level players dhal vs Vega....guess who won, VEGA!
Posted by OMG on October 6, 2009 at 4:11 p.m. #148
Fei Long is above Guile in the ranking...oh man, are people going to whine about that
Posted by Medaral on October 6, 2009 at 5:12 p.m. #149
They should make a tier list excluding everyone from Sakura down. All they do is artificially inflate the good match-ups of certain characters. Most high-tier players get about a 60% to 70% win ratio off of these fools, and since hardly anyone plays them, it's buffering the stats.
Also, you may want to remove Sagat from this list too, seeing how sooner or later he'll probably be either soft or hard banned.
Posted by name on October 6, 2009 at 5:29 p.m. #150
#540
everything outside the top two are ｓｈｉｔ tier
Posted by Will on October 6, 2009 at 6:53 p.m. #151
I think Blanka is way too high on that list.
Posted by chickenwings on October 6, 2009 at 8:08 p.m. #152
@will
seriously, a big portion of the cast has things to punish the ball, he has no ultra setups, only a few combos(he cant use ball combos on sim balrog seth since they can hit him back after the ball) and his pokes arent what u would except from top tier. Unless top level players are still falling for short ball into throw i say his placement is bs.
Posted by I doubt it on October 6, 2009 at 8:09 p.m. #153
#331: "Also, you may want to remove Sagat from this list too, seeing how sooner or later he'll probably be either soft or hard banned."
Overall, the game is well balanced by the (admittedly often lacking) standards of fighting games. He doesn't have nearly enough of an overall advantage for him to be "banned."
Posted by hobohitman on October 6, 2009 at 8:17 p.m. #154
Bison beats blanka wtf. Low short kills him on wake up and as long as i keep pressure theres nothing he can do but ex up ball or ultra. Bisons pokes in general are better and bison punishs blocked balls with rh scissors all freakin day long. What bison player did they get for this tier list?
Posted by yes4me on October 6, 2009 at 9:49 p.m. #155
Well my best performance online with Blanka, even thought I never played Blanka before. While I am obviously not a pro and online skill is not the same as high level, I think several of my wins convinced me that Blanka can be great to get higher in the list. In short, I am not suprised to see Vega get lower, and Blanka go higher.
Posted by KidD on October 7, 2009 at 5:12 a.m. #156
Blanka hasn't got any even match up against ryu that is bull, not sure why Blanka is so high on the tier list??
Posted by edoggy on October 7, 2009 at 7:57 a.m. #157
i dont know much about all this , but im a really solid player online, switchign between guile and ryu mostly but im REALLY bothered by SPecial throws, the cinematic onces, why arent they parryable ables spam that crap all day for big damage, and im not gonna get into zangiefs ultra OF NO ESCAPE. this doesnt bother anyone else? i have probs with sagats ability to recover from tigerknee into what seems like an endless combo but thats another story and im not done figuring a way around it yet either.. PS. im one of prolly 3 guiles online that doesnt turtle incase i was gonna catch flak for it.. thats all
Posted by edoggy on October 7, 2009 at 7:59 a.m. #158
PS. why is guiles ultra SUCH GARBAGE and how come he cant do anything with a Flashkick to FADC, its a waste if it hits! =(
maybe someone has some tips, since fuson retired his blog.
Posted by Tirasoul on October 7, 2009 at 8:10 a.m. #159
@IrPanda
very good that you are saying the goods that Cammy possesed against Akuma.
but from these things i red i can tell you that they not working only on Akuma but for the other shotokhan characters.
the point is that you are mention only the goods of Cammy and if that happens then we have this.ok ok.
its good but im gonna tell you this.
if Cammy do a spiral arrow and be focuse by Akuma or a whiff cannon spike, do you know how catastrophic will be this to Cammy especially if Akuma has Ultra or EX bar?
Raging Demon instantly and then goodbye health bar.
ok Cammy can do her Ultra during an Akuma's fireball.but its not the same.and dont forget that Cammy hasn't the same shoryuken as Akuma.Cammy= 5 frames and Akuma= 3 frames.
its very easy for Akuma player to reversal an attack than Cammy player.
im not saying that because i have grudge to Cammy.i like her more than Akuma.
im saying that she is very low character unfortunatelly and i think its pretty unfair to fight characters with more life,or more combos,or more damage,or more choices for Ultra. etc etc etc.
i really want Cammy to win Akuma,Sagat,Ryu but for now i think that this is impossible in an advance match.
i hope for Cammy players and her fans that Capcom will fix her a lot at SSF4 and can compete every character in the game.
i still believe though that tier list isn't right.
Cammy and Akuma was a simple example.
i believe that they are more problems inside this tier list.
Posted by Umm... on October 7, 2009 at 1:33 p.m. #160
Am i the only one who noticed this, but the standard total to be considered "A"(teal) tier in April tier list was 129+. If this is applied to this new tier, then everyone above Chun Li would be considered "A"(teal) tier. If you notice, the "B" tier list begins in April at 116, so anyone between Chun-Li and Ken would be considered "B"(red) tier.
Following this logic, then from Rose to Cammy would be "C"(purple) tier. Sakura, Gen, El Fuerte would be "D" (brown) tier, and Vega would be F, Dan is worst.
I think there's definitely something weird about the new tier list.
Posted by shannaro!!! on October 7, 2009 at 3:26 p.m. #161
@Tirasoul
I'm still not convinced that Cammy doesn't have an advantage over Akuma. Her overall properties defenitely outshines those of Akuma's. Not only that, high-level Cammy players know how to use these properties againts high-level Akuma players.
The tier list above is not supposed to be accurate. It is just an approximate estimation of who is probably going to win againts who. In this case, Cammy is more likely to win againts Akuma, but at the same time, is less likely to win againts Sagat and Ryu.
Posted by Madness on October 7, 2009 at 7:35 p.m. #162
High level offline, akuma ryu and sagat are the only characters with no bad matchups, and it's popular belief that it's a paper,rock,scissors game with them
Online, cammy can get away with having an advantage over akuma because most akuma players don't know what they are doing. Akuma can be a nightmare to deal with if he's got his head together.
Posted by Bobba LUI on October 7, 2009 at 10:12 p.m. #163
Why isn't Ryu #2? He has no matchup W/L's under 5, and even bests Rufus in a best of 10.
Posted by @159 on October 7, 2009 at 10:27 p.m. #164
"Cammy possesed against Akuma.
but from these things i red i can tell you that they not working only on Akuma but for the other shotokhan characters."
I'm almost certain cammy has an adv over akuma and not the other shotos is because akuma is more airbourne than the rest.
Posted by @163 on October 7, 2009 at 11:02 p.m. #165
"Why isn't Ryu #2"
They are TIED for number 2 (or number 4 however you count ties).
Posted by mikey on October 8, 2009 at 12:49 a.m. #166
damn Zangief gets pwnd the most inthis list can believe he manage to stay in the top 5.
Posted by @164 on October 8, 2009 at 2:33 a.m. #167
He's only airborne alot if he sucks.
Posted by Tirasoul on October 8, 2009 at 5:31 a.m. #168
@#161
atlist could you give me a video Cammy vs Akuma to see whats happening to convice me?
because with words like "high level Cammy players can outshines Akuma's attacks" etc doesn't convince me or some other players too.
Posted by @167 on October 8, 2009 at 7:16 a.m. #169
I didn't mean airbourne a lot. But with all other shotos, you can play the game effectively without jumping (excluding cross ups) making cammy's anti-air completely useless. For akuma to effectively use his fbs to zone or use his demon flip to start combos, he needs to be in the air. And that is why cammy's a 6-4 with akuma and a 5-5 with the other shotos.
Posted by Me on October 8, 2009 at 9:30 a.m. #170
October 2009 Popularity Rankings for Street Fighter IV
Posted by kobe on October 8, 2009 at 3:18 p.m. #171
i main sagat and ken, sometiems i would use ryu but someone you i agree with blanka me i dont play much i have trouble with blanka i need alot of macthes up with blanka, online blanka definetlyt should be high tier, my boy ken i see why he falls a little it hurts i hope ssf4 fixes this. sagat imo should stay the way he is ryu maybe fix him. but all i want really is to see how the new chracters work out u people tend to forget new chrcters can help and i want ken to be upgraded.
Posted by hobohitman on October 8, 2009 at 7:38 p.m. #172
@kobe
"ryu maybe fix him", if u think anything is worng with ryu u have problems. The only things he doesnt have is a teleport, command throw and a gun.
Posted by d3v on October 9, 2009 at 1:51 a.m. #173
The tier list frankly looks wierd, especially since it looks quite different from the ones that Arcadia has been putting out.
Posted by ChunLover on October 9, 2009 at 4:36 a.m. #174
I don't understand how Seth would have a 5-5 probability against Chun when he can abuse his long jumps and stomps and none of Chun's tools can hit, counter or punish him back. It's the same thing with El Fuerte or any other character that has an angled overhead attack as that alone will ensure an easy disposal of Chun Li in this game. Seth, El Fuerte and Zangief should at least have either a 6 or 7 advantage against Chun Li and not 5-5.
Posted by Tirasoul on October 9, 2009 at 6:05 a.m. #175
@#173
^^thank you!
-
and im waiting for the videos that Cammy rips Akuma.and ofcourse must be offline matches and ofcourse skilled matches like a Tour for example. ;)
Posted by Lolz on October 9, 2009 at 9:29 a.m. #176
Justin Wong just put Fei on the map. new tiers? ya i think so :D
Posted by I Am Error on October 9, 2009 at 10:02 a.m. #177
http://translate.google.com/translate...
The Japanese Translation has some differences from the Eventhubs list. Rufus and Akuma have different numbers.
Posted by Oke on October 9, 2009 at 4:52 p.m. #178
The reason why Cammy has some advantages over Akuma is because of here cannon spike, it goes through akuma's air fireballs.
Posted by Gief_Mobile on October 9, 2009 at 7:41 p.m. #179
@I Am Error
It's a Wiki, it gets updated with different numbers.
Posted by Tirasoul on October 10, 2009 at 6:57 a.m. #180
@#178
any shoryuken can go through fireballs if its at the right timing and possition.not only Cammy's.
Posted by @180 on October 10, 2009 at 10:08 a.m. #181
That was a response to why Cammy is 6-4 with Akuma and 5-5 with all the other shotos.
Posted by Tirasoul on October 10, 2009 at 5:47 p.m. #182
@#181
for what?because of shoryuken???
one move can't change the game and more than that a tier rank.
anyway....ok im not going to argue with you.if you want to believe that Cammy is Akuma's match up believe it i dont care.
but still im trying to find in the net strong matches with Akuma and Cammy in (lets say) high level game and still the only thing i can find is some tournaments in Europe (one i think it was in USA) which are not very high (medium actually) that always Akuma wins.
if you have something post it here pls.i really wanna see this match up.
Posted by itzAce on October 10, 2009 at 11:47 p.m. #183
@kobe
"ryu maybe fix him", if u think anything is worng with ryu u have problems. The only things he doesnt have is a teleport, command throw and a gun.
lmao so true all they need to do is make the recover and the reversal rate of the uppercuts worse i mean ryu and sagat r already top tier scrub-sicles but they need to up abels priority for sure
Posted by Tirasoul on October 11, 2009 at 6:06 a.m. #184
@itzAce
i think shoryuken moves must be all 4-5 frames.
not Ryu's and Akuma's shoryuken 3 frames.its very broken.
and its too unfair for the rest characters who has 4 and up frames at their shoryuken moves.
Posted by Madness on October 11, 2009 at 4:19 p.m. #185
Cammy reallly doesn't have an advantage against akuma.
Ryu,sagat and akuma are the 3 best characters in the game.
-Sagat has a slight disadvantage to akuma because he is immune to sagats mixups because of teleport and has strong comeback potential with raging demon, as well as winning in a fireball war and a clear speed and footsies advantage.
-Ryu has a slight advantage over akuma because everything he does hurts akuma so much more, and he actually has the footsies and speed to compete with akuma, as well as having no real weakness.
-Sagat has a slight advantage over ryu because ryu can't do anything about his wakeup game, or atleast he can't completely avoid it. Ryu's damage isn't as big a deal to sagat and he can outzone ryu also.
Cammy is an exploitable character like rose or guile, she certainly doesn't have an advantage over the trinity at this time
Posted by AquaMan on October 11, 2009 at 7:49 p.m. #186
TiraSoul:
You keep saying that if Cammy's Spiral Arrow misses, or if Akuma focuses it you get a free raging demon out of it.
This may be true, but high-level Cammy players don't just throw out random Spiral Arrows. We know that Spiral Arrows are only safe when used at the end of a combo or after a focus attack.
Posted by AquaMan984 on October 11, 2009 at 7:53 p.m. #187
And here's a vid of a high-level Cammy v Akuma match:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byYbIq...
Posted by chickenwings on October 11, 2009 at 10:49 p.m. #188
If they did things like shrink the reversal window,kill the auto flip/auto block and maybe shorten the stages slightly characters like cammy and abel would do ALOT better since agressive gameplay wouldnt take a back seat to turtleing.
Posted by Tirasoul on October 12, 2009 at 3:03 a.m. #189
@#187
lol i close it immediately after i saw the beggining.
i said OFFLINE high level match.the video is an online match and doesnt aprove anything mate.
Posted by Tirasoul on October 12, 2009 at 3:11 a.m. #190
@#187
i have seen a lot of "online high level matches" Cammy vs Sagat.
does this mean that Cammy is match up to Sagat. lol
find if you can Tournaments or offline versuses.forget the online.
noone serious hardcore gamer who plays the game ever looks at the online matches.just for the record.tier lists made from offline matches NEVER online.try to understand this.
online are for noobs which dont know anything about frames and stuff and they always do a mass shoryuken or some movement very handy for abuse because even the slightest lag helps.
Posted by Hobbs on October 12, 2009 at 5:24 a.m. #191
they should make a tier list based on players of average skill. High level players can play any character well. When you watch them play, they just do various light punch and kick combos. Average skilled players actually like to use special moves, and that's where some characters become much stronger than other. If the tiers were based on players of average skill, Sagat, Ryu, Ken and Akuma would be the top tier because they have the best moves that are the easiest to execute effectively. Based on average players, Sagat would beat fuerte, honda, dhalsim, vega, and zangief 10 out of 10 times. You just spam tiger shots, and then when the other guy tries to jump over them, you hit them with a tiger knee and then upper cut.
Posted by @188 on October 12, 2009 at 8:47 a.m. #192
"If they did things like shrink the reversal window,kill the auto flip/auto block"
Reversal window? I thought reversal was doing it on the first possible frame?
Also no auto correction means charge chars can no longer special-move-counter cross ups.
Posted by @Aquaman on October 12, 2009 at 8:58 a.m. #193
Look. Don't bother trying to convince Tira that Cammy Akuma is a 6-4 match up. Plenty of others before have tried and their words fell on deaf ears.
@Tira I agree with you on this point. That video => not so good. Players in that video => not so good. Unfortunately Sanford did NOT play Ed Ma so there was no Cammy Akuma fight in BF2 so no video to show you the Cammy Akuma match-up advantages/disadvantages.
Posted by Tierman on October 12, 2009 at 10:09 a.m. #194
@Hobbs
There's no such thing as an "Average skill tier". That not only confuses people and make the list unofficial, but also encourages incompetence. Average players should always find ways to learn how to play characters at the highest levels and learn better on how to anticipate and predict the other player's movements, as well as better reaction on execution. Tiers were meant to show a general background of the top players and what they use (Ryu/Sagat), as well as naysayers trying to prove that tier list wrong and change the placings in a later list (Rufus).
Tiers has always been based on top players duking it out globally, paired with different fighters against each other. Online gameplay does not (and will never) include this as we all know about lag. Of course, the tiers are always arguable and are changing. See tier wiki above.
Posted by hobbs on October 12, 2009 at 1:07 p.m. #195
the bottom line is, for 90 percent of the players out there, ryu, ken, sagat, and akuma are the best characters. their moves only require quarter circles, as opposed to half or three quarter circles; their moves are strong, and have small hit boxes. Ryu is the easiest character to cancel into an ultra, but that doesn't even matter. Ryu is a better character than say, Honda, and 99 percent of the online matches between Honda and Ryu will see Ryu as the winner-- because he's better. I'm sure an excellent player can figure out how to play honda well, but that's not the point.
Posted by Tirasoul on October 12, 2009 at 1:35 p.m. #196
@Aquaman
look i said countles times the ways that Akuma can break down Cammy eventually.its not an easy part because Akuma player must change his style because of Cammy's movement.
the point is that he will win at the end.and its a fact.
i can easily post a here a video from a tourney but i dont want to because i dont like how the players playing.i think the luck of experience.Furthemore its very difficult to find a decent offline match with Akuma and Cammy because most respect players are playing Arcade version which console characters doesnt exist.
so i want to ask you something.
have you ever seen a decent video that Cammy wins against Akuma with a rampage winning?
theory is just theory.i can said that Akuma can overthrow Cammy and you the opposite.
so....what are your arguments that leads you to this state???
that Cammy is match up to Akuma? dont say again she has shoryuken and stuff like that because we are going back to the previous posts that leads to an endless conversation with no meaning.
so i want to answer me this.and i will not continue again this.i leave you to believe whatever you want. :)
and we all be happy after that.
Posted by Madness on October 12, 2009 at 2:22 p.m. #197
@tirasoul 190
If this tierlist wasn't made from online matches thenblanka could never ever be that high in the tier list. Cammy needs a buff and akuma doesn't, showing an individual match proves nothing just like sanford beating down some guy with dan
Posted by Tierman on October 12, 2009 at 4:53 p.m. #198
@Hobbs
In an average or casual play, Honda would have no answers against anyone with a fireball or anyone with faster reflexes. The only time where he had more options was HD Remix where his LP Sumo Headbutt passes through it. However, in higher levels of play, while Honda still have troubles with fireballs, the better players would learn to use more options and pressure opponents from cheesing fireballs, forcing the opponent to change strategies than a simple spamfest.
To an average player, Ryu, Ken, Akuma, and Sagat are very easy to use compared to most characters as well as having more options for setups, but granted that doesn't make them the best characters. We are not living in the old 90's where people were having more trouble executing special moves. Command input has evolved and gotten better, with the players constantly improving their game as well.
Tiers always reflect on games without any drawbacks. Meaning, the only way it's best calculated is via Arcade in good condition or Console Vs. Offline play at each player's best. Online =/= fail in Tier reasoning.
Posted by chickenwings on October 12, 2009 at 9:23 p.m. #199
This list is seriously retarded.
Blanka is NOT high tier. Almost everyone can punish the ball and once jab ball throw stops workin and people learn to block cross ups blanka becomes trash. On top of that blanka doesnt win any tornaments.
Posted by Tirasoul on October 13, 2009 at 2:11 a.m. #200
@Madness
ok....you have conviced me.
now i know that this tier list musn't take it seriously.
are you serious now???from the online????
ok case is closed.
im not going to write here anymore.
sorry for troubling you.really.
Posted by @Tirasoul on October 13, 2009 at 8 a.m. #201
"look i said countles times the ways that Akuma can break down Cammy eventually.its not an easy part because Akuma player must change his style because of Cammy's movement.
the point is that he will win at the end.and its a fact"
How is that a fact? You're just saying the ways Akuma can beat Cammy just like others are saying the ways Cammy can beat Akuma.
"i can easily post a here a video from a tourney but i dont want to because i dont like how the players playing"
Wow. Lol. That's confirmation you are a troll.
"ok case is closed.
im not going to write here anymore."
YAY! :)
Fact is that you (Tirasoul) have not said anything proving anything. All you have done is list tactics Akuma can use against Cammy and then says other posts about Cammy's tactics against Akuma are wrong. You have obviously never seen a high level tournament Cammy if you believe spamming focus attacks will allow anyone to win (good tourny cammys don't use spiral arrow or cannon spike except in guaranteed hit situations) against her or that her setups are weak.
If you're really done posting here, good. I will inform the townspeople the troll has been slain.
Posted by Tierman on October 13, 2009 at 9:57 a.m. #202
@Madness
If a tier list was made for online matchups, then a lot of characters would reach 8-2 status or even 9-1 (or at the worst 10-0). At high levels of play, online and offline matches are completely different. Offline, you have to deal with 1/60th of a second to respond to moves. Online is very inconsistent in comparison.
Online reasoning to tiers FAIL at all costs. Anyone want to try arguing that?
Posted by Guess? on October 13, 2009 at 10:17 a.m. #203
Tier listings are compiled from a list of character win/lose data obtained from a list of select tournaments. The numbers compiled are a display of the supposedly (I do not dispute the claim though other people may) top players in the world (country if the tier list is nation-specific). The data analysis is assumed to be a simple match and count criteria. In doing so, factors (maybe important maybe not depends on the un-measurable true spread of the data) may be disregarded and in turn, a bias may be created. Furthermore, the findings do not truly reflect how good a character is, but the interpretation is extrapolated from how well they are being played at the tournament level.
Posted by BringbacktheRUSHDOWN on October 13, 2009 at 11:21 a.m. #204
PlEASE, kill the auto block, KILL THE SHORT CUTS, kill the auto correct, kill the trip guard,Kill the crouch teching, SHRINK THE FREAKIN STAGES.
All this game bioled down to is who can turtle the longest. How is it i fight the same guy in hdr and in sf4, the same characters with him doing the same runaway turtle bs, in sf4 i lose but in hdr HE GETS RAPED. FIX THIS FREAKING GAME. Bring back agressive game play. THe only time u can get agressive is one there fighting u, if they turtle the only counter is to sit there like a jerk, where as in any other sf game i can just get on u rush down. Turtle fighter 4 needs to be fixed, BRING BACK THE RUSH DOWN
Posted by Hobbs on October 13, 2009 at 3:10 p.m. #205
Why doesn't Fei Long get more respect. His only real draw back is that his ex moves are so much better than his standard moves. Also, why didn't capcom make his flame kick the same as Ken's upper cut in terms of frame rate, hit box, range, etc. It seems like they purposefully weakened fei long. he could legitimately be on of the best characters in the game, but they sabotaged him. Also, his ultra should be a single punch, and then the camera should do a close up on him, or maybe circle around him, for 5 seconds as he stands there holding the pose and screaming. That would be awesome!!!
Posted by vader on October 13, 2009 at 6:48 p.m. #206
if fei's ultra was a single punch, it'd be too easy to block
Posted by cmon on October 14, 2009 at 1:54 a.m. #207
where is the vega love.. 2nd to last tier.. nooo
Posted by Balance on October 14, 2009 at 9:05 a.m. #208
This game is balanced pretty well. Most of the matchups are either 6:4 or 5:5 which is pretty amazing. Other fighting games have a whole mess of 9:1 crap.
Posted by PSN Greylynx on October 14, 2009 at 2:42 p.m. #209
Seth has an 8 on Zangief damn that's the only one I'm really surprised about
Posted by PSN Greylynx on October 14, 2009 at 2:43 p.m. #210
Seth has an 8 on Zangief damn that's the only one I'm really suprised about
Posted by Honda man on October 14, 2009 at 5:03 p.m. #211
the chart says Dhalsim beats Honda 6 out of ten times. I don't believe it. A top level Dhalsim player is going to beat Honda every time. Does anybody know of any youtube videos or any other videos that shows a match between top players with Dhalsim v. Honda. I'd like to see it.
Posted by @210 on October 14, 2009 at 5:04 p.m. #212
I'm surprised it wasn't 9:1.
Posted by ME on October 15, 2009 at 2:22 a.m. #213
@Honda man-
Akimo Vs Sabin (from a TRF tourney I believe). Akimo takes it convincingly, and Art's Sim is pretty damn gdlk. I know people like to hate on him, but hey, he beat Ed Ma at Bar Fights II, so... can't talk down on his game TOO much.
Not that there are a lot of Akimo level Hondas out there, but playing at his level, I buy the tier listing in general.
Posted by ME on October 15, 2009 at 2:30 a.m. #214
@bringbacktherushdown
lol @ "waah, I can play hdr but I suck at this". Rushdown is still alive and well in sf4, maybe you just suck too much at adjusting your game to compensate for the fact that IT'S NOT THE SAME GAME AS HDR. If you want an HDR like game...(you guessed it)...PLAY HDR! You cannot be an inferior player in either game and win simply by turtling- if you are losing to turtles it's your fault, not the game's. quit whining and lvl the fuk up.
Posted by Bringbacktherushdown on October 15, 2009 at 10:41 a.m. #215
@me
We didnt need any of that crap in any other street fighter. Short cuts,crouch teching,auto block,big reversal windows,big stages, and auto adjusting specials,trip guard were added for the babies. They took away alot of the guess work and mix ups and then gave people a super powerful move just because there getin there @55 beat. Its ridiculous.
COnsider this. A knock down on hdr/turbo and pretty much all other street fighter games gives me alot of options.1) I could go for a meatie and 2-1 or combo off of it or sweep meatie and get another knock down,2) i could go meatie and go into a tick throw,3)and since has to tech HIGH so he has to actually adjust and block low and then stand to tech, giveing me the option of going 2x low and then go for a combo 3) i could go for a cross up which again gives me another mix up oppurtunity with going low short/forward into a combo or throw. ANd dmg scaling means going for combos IS A GOOD THING. Im not gonna be doing 5/6 hit combos and get bearly over 200 dmg. Now this guessing game is what keeps fights flowing, Is he going for meatie? will he throw, should i counter throw it, should i go for a reversal, should i try to stuff his throw, should i go for a it?
In sf4 what are my options as the agressor? No meaties, u can either mash dp's or ultra which will work since the reversal window is big and u have short cuts so u dont even have to do the correct move and u also have the option of focusing and dashing back. The low high mix ups again dont work. With the option select u can mash it out and either get a tect or a low short meaning the whole low short into throw doesnt work as it should. With auto adjusting dps cross ups are alot more risky since now if someone mashs a reveral late the move will auto flip and hit the cross up. ANd dont forget we have the option of the regular stand or qucik stand which takes all cross up timing and throws it out the window. And mashing dps in general are too good. If im going for a combo, lets say 3x short into scissors, u can mash as soon as i connect the first short, if i mess up for any reason i get dp'd(dont even try,i see the so called pros screw up combos all the time, or did u not seee alex valle which is a great sf player screw up a dp fdac ultra with ryu at bar fights) and if i want to go for a mix up and stop after the second short and dash up for a throw i get dp'd, u lose nothing for mashing dp's, its actually in ur favor since it will stop me for actually going for anything else. Online gief cannot be comboed for this simple reason because as soon as u start hiting these guys there mashing 360s and lariats, and lets not forget that the online lag favors this bs. In no other street fighter game could u mash out a reversal, but in this game its almost always good to do it.
Nobody here needs to lvl up buddy, its just that the game was down graded.
Posted by redgarl on October 15, 2009 at 9:42 p.m. #216
Phhh... Fuerte is the strongest character easily. He got the best special that got the best ratio to hit, he can hit someone from the other side of the screen, and he can manipulate people trying to get up from the ground like they were puppet.
Sincerely, Fuerte is your worst nightmare once you are on the ground. It`s like trying to get out of a D&D trap by throwing the dices... if you miss, you need to get ready for the other attack... until you beat it.
Fuerte easily got more than 150 points from my experience.
Posted by redgarl on October 15, 2009 at 10:03 p.m. #217
This list would be different if peoples skilled with every characters were making it. I won 80% of my matches with El Fuerte in championship with peoples having similar skills.
The thing is, Fuerte is the hardest character to learn because he got so many moves and he's so unique. He feel like an SNK character included in the Street Fighter universe.
El Fuerte is a clone of Ramon in King of Fighter.
Posted by rog hommi on October 16, 2009 at 9:44 a.m. #218
stfu rePosted by redgarl on October 15, 2009 at 10:03 p.m. #217
u stupiud ass fuk u dnt win no matches stupid dumb pathetic lioar ahhahahahahahahahahah
Posted by Just Me on October 16, 2009 at 12:04 p.m. #219
actully if u train at it u can be pretty ood with dan it just takes pratice:)
Posted by um on October 16, 2009 at 12:05 p.m. #220
what?
Posted by um on October 16, 2009 at 12:06 p.m. #221
o never mine u had typing errors LOL
Posted by Fuerte sucks on October 16, 2009 at 12:08 p.m. #222
i don't know what the hell are you guys talking about, fuerte sucks ass he's so predictable with all that gay jumping, he can be easily countered with focus attack. All that jumping is not safe, it's predictable and dangerous specially against shotos.
Posted by @Sagatto on October 16, 2009 at 1:27 p.m. #223
@Just Me
No. Dan just sucks. The only good move he has is the Ex Shoryuken.
@Fuerte Sucks
Fuerte just needs to be consistent in his moves. Players who know how to play him consistently can easily beat down players who aren't familiar with Fuerte. Players playing as Fuerte who don't know how to play the guessing game with him will hella lose.
Posted by Guess? on October 16, 2009 at 4:47 p.m. #224
@222
When not exactly. His slam will take out most anti air moves. Also FAs are only useful against his slide. The grab will take you out and the slam can cross you so which even if you DC outta the focus, he'll recover faster than you.
@223
Dan is terrible in the hands on almost every player. Put him in the hands of a pro and hes got a great pressure game.
Posted by abel sucks on October 17, 2009 at 5:22 a.m. #225
whoever designed abel should be fired. I know people say there's no such thing as "priortiy" but every one of abel's moves has priority. You could be in the middle of hitting him, and then he just activates his throw, and you lose. they should give players the option of deleting certain characters from the game so that you don't have to play them if you don't want to. I would eliminate abel and seth. If I could do that, this game would go from being a piece of crap, to being pretty good.
Posted by Tirasoul on October 17, 2009 at 7:41 a.m. #226
"Fact is that you (Tirasoul) have not said anything proving anything. All you have done is list tactics Akuma can use against Cammy and then says other posts about Cammy's tactics against Akuma are wrong. You have obviously never seen a high level tournament Cammy if you believe spamming focus attacks will allow anyone to win (good tourny cammys don't use spiral arrow or cannon spike except in guaranteed hit situations) against her or that her setups are weak.
If you're really done posting here, good. I will inform the townspeople the troll has been slain."
ok good.im not going to prove something to people that can't hear anything.
im done with noobies like you. cheers :P
Posted by Zangief Sucks on October 17, 2009 at 11:36 p.m. #227
Its totally unfair, whenever I try to light punch, he Lariats, and when I try to fireball, he lariats. Total bullsh*t. I cant even hurricane kick, cause he lariats. such total bullsh*t. like, how come I cant light punch through lariat? game designer should be fired
Posted by nick2124 on October 18, 2009 at 6:13 a.m. #228
Why oh Why can't they patch this game?
Vega is officially the only 4th tier character in the game, take away Dan (the joke character of street fighter) and he is the WORST character.
I've NEVER seen a vega in a grand final or even semi-finals.
He fails completely, please fix this BS capcom.
Posted by DemonLord on October 18, 2009 at 7:55 p.m. #229
My Favorite Character is Gouken,I hope noone has a problem with that lol
Posted by redgarl on October 18, 2009 at 9:20 p.m. #230
@rog hommi
"stfu rePosted by redgarl on October 15, 2009 at 10:03 p.m. #217
u stupiud ass fuk u dnt win no matches stupid dumb pathetic lioar ahhahahahahahahahahah"
Phhh... you can counter a focus attack by grabbing with a Tortialla or a Fajita Buster... and since you can do a Fajita Buster using the wall and jump to the other side of the screen... you... newb...
Also, when someone is on the ground and is about to make a quick recovery and counter a Tostada press with any anti-aerial move... you can... COUNTER THE COUNTER!. Just Tostada press at the other side of the opponent at the right moment,... and BINGO... No more Ryu super cheap small uppercut Ultra crap.
You idiot... Fuerte got the best Ultra and he can dodge all the others Ultra at 90% of the time. The other 10% is your mistake usually. Someone good with Fuerte never take an Ultra hit... he give them at all the careless jumping fagget.
The thing is... you simply don`t have a clue about what you are talking about. At the minute you hit the ground, you are doomed to try to get up. It`s like falling in a D&D trap and throwing your dice to get out of it. If you can back block when Ryu is jumping over you with small kick to make a back combo, you will never have the speed necessary to block a cheap recovery Tostada Press. Only Using the Tostada Press, I can overcome 60% of the players... and I am not joking... if I start using grab because you are doing a stupid Focus attack, I will grab you at every time.
Posted by redgael on October 18, 2009 at 9:33 p.m. #231
@227
Zangief lariat can easily been counter with a special move or a Ultra if you counter it. You need to take notice that a counter always get the advantage over the initial move.
@228
Vega is strong in good hands and unlike you, I have seen many finals with Vega. I am using Fuerte and I tend to avoid Vega players because he`s so hard to hit due to his evading moves.
Also, Dan small kick flying special move is the ultimate long distance antiair move. The damn thing even hit people on the ground. If both players are jumpîng and you are landing it, you will give the hit at 90% of the time. The only thing coming close to this is cammy swift kick and Fuerte Guacamole leg drop.
Posted by redgarl on October 18, 2009 at 9:53 p.m. #232
@222
"i don't know what the hell are you guys talking about, fuerte sucks ass he's so predictable with all that gay jumping, he can be easily countered with focus attack. All that jumping is not safe, it's predictable and dangerous specially against shotos."
On the contrary... Ken, Sagat, Ryu, Dan... almost any characters who can`t teleport have a huge disavantage over Fuerte... Of course, you need to know how to counter their counters on recovery, but once you know it... they will stop trying to counter you... know why? Because you can hit them until their health bar reach zero. They will not counter it anymore with flying uppercut, but they will try to block your Tostada Press. You only need good timing, that`s all.
I have beaten peoples able to do 20 hits combo manually with Fuerte like they were amateurs because I am playing so much close to the chess with him. I got a move for anything you do or plan to do.
And character without antiair special move are even in a worst situation... for example Goken, Zangief, Chunli...
The best characters against Fuerte are Dhalsim, M. Bison(dictator), Cammy and Blanka...
Akuma is decent, but he need to teleport or he`s done faster than any other karate garb characters.
Posted by TyphooM on October 19, 2009 at 5:12 a.m. #233
@ redgarl
El fuerte is dangerous BUT only if you don't know his play style, I would say the majority of wins El fuerte gets are chalked up due to people being unfamilar with his play style.
Once opponents know his mix up game his bag of tricks (Like Blanka) becomes limited, and against pros its becomes an up hill battle!
The trick with fighting against el fuerte is to ALWAYS say moving, obviously avoiding a knock down, block his cross ups, if he does get a knock, stay and on the ground and watch his movements, if dashes close up to you hes is going to tortilla throw, His slide can be focused, his tostada can be SRK.
He has a good mix up but if you guess wrong you pay for it big time since he has a glass jaw!
Posted by the mysterious stranger on October 19, 2009 at 9:15 a.m. #234
would capcom add Q character from SF3srike .(i feel they wont add Q :/ .i want know his story
Posted by redgarl on October 19, 2009 at 12:05 p.m. #235
I am in G1 tournament and your tactic isn't good at all. El Fuerte strenght is on recovery attack. So, the simple goal is to take your opponent to the ground and work on him. So a good Fuerte take it slow... really slow... but once it started, it's over quicker than anyone might thought.
If your opponent block your Tostada press on recovery, begin to grab with Fajita Buster and Tortilla. After that, they will begin to jump to avoid your grab and at that time your start over with Tostada press. El Fuerte is a rock paper scisor character, it's a nightmare in good hands. The only thing is that you need to learn how to counter every characters moves, which is the hardest part. Still, I would say that Blanka versus El is 50%.
By the way, the same tactic apply for Blanka too. His electricity is countered by a Tortilla grab and any of his ball attack can be countered by a simple Tostada press.
Not to mention that Fuerte can virtually evade all the Ultras which is a big feature that no other character have. Also, you can land your Ultra at 75% of a jump or any fireball recovery attack, or any grab or even attacks. And the damage is almost virtually the worst after Akuma.
And all this on simple recovery attacks. Like I said before, the only way to evade this is with teleportation skills which only 3 characters have. Abel rolling evasion is countered by a Tortilla grab... so he's screwed.
Posted by The player on October 19, 2009 at 12:26 p.m. #236
I'm going to tell all TIER believers one thing...this is the most pathetic piece of scrap garbage i've EVER seen on a site...masking your loses with a "Tier" list...disgusting. what MORE excuses for defeat do you need? None of you realize that by doing this creates an excuse for YOUR loss..making you a laughing STOCK. I should pick Dan and destroy ALL disgraceful Tier followers...
You should be ASHAMED..or get laid...hell BOTH you solo handers
Posted by Lucha Lover on October 19, 2009 at 1:23 p.m. #237
@TyphooM
Excellent summation of El's strengths an weaknesses. Many of the higher ranked matches I've had know how to defend against the Tostada much more so I've been forced to stop using it more than once or twice in a row. A well-timed recovery -> FA has more than done its fare share of getting me.
Those who do use El frequently don't employ his Quesadilla Bomb more often. It has very high priority, and more often than not, trades hits. Keeps people away from you if you know how to time it right so you don't run into a SRK.
I never took the time to learn his RSF enough to put to use, but it doesn't really add or detract from his advantage. It's punishing, but the setups are far more important.
Posted by fuerte sucks on October 19, 2009 at 1:56 p.m. #238
It's unfair how almost every Fuerte attack can be focused
Posted by Lucha Lover on October 20, 2009 at 6:35 a.m. #239
@238
What a super general statement that is. And it makes little sense.
I presume you mean most of El's special moves can be focused? So are every other characters' specials. If anything, he has 2 moves that can't be FA'd as well as his main Armor Break move, compared to most other characters that only have 1 special that happens to hit multiple times and armor breaks.
Posted by TyphooM on October 20, 2009 at 10:52 a.m. #240
@redgarl
Exactly, like you wrote, its a rock sissors paper game with El fuerte, which means it is 50 - 50! If your guess correctly you punish the opponents careless mistakes. However if YOU guess wrong you get punished, and el fuerte has toilet paper health, so you can come of worse!
I still personally believe most of el fuerte wins are down to people NOT knowing how to fight EL, and also people underestimating EL due to him being low tier.
You have to rely on a knock down to swing the fight in your favour which is ELs weakness, the key to fighting EL is to keep moving, he also has poor ability to fight close range, no reversal, can get crossed up, poor health etc.
You would have no problem beating a shoto fireball spamming sitting duck scrub, But to people who knows Els mix up game being that most of his attack can be focused into an ultra it becomes a struggle.
Posted by kIDd on October 21, 2009 at 5:27 a.m. #241
THEY HAVE GOT TO GET RID OF REVERSALS IN THIS GAME, controls are dumbed so to many shoto scrubs keep mashing uppercuts!
Posted by ItzAce on October 21, 2009 at 6:32 p.m. #242
lmfao@ Abelsucks your just pathetic yourprobobly some shoto scrub who cant even beat abel or seth your pathetic you should just take the game back and buy blazblue or something(im sure you would suck at that also)
@kiDd i dont know about get rid of reversals but change the frame data for the bullsh!t SRK and cammy's cannon spike i love how scrubs can reversal all day by mashing and then they think thier good
@zangief sucks wow you just horrible if u cant get pasted the lariet its called jumping roundhouse dumass
Posted by OMGLOLLAMOOMGZ on October 23, 2009 at 4:30 p.m. #243
for all those people who say dan is useless look up on the tier list he has some wins! so hes not completely useless.
Posted by Pulse on October 24, 2009 at 7:09 p.m. #244
I kind of feel good. I'm a Gen player and he's always low...
The thing with Gen is that IMO he is the hardest char to play with, so you don't see a lot of people using him. I can say it is a lot of fun playing with Gen ;)
Posted by The Jeff on October 28, 2009 at 1:05 p.m. #245
Here is a question...and maybe a dumb one...
Why is Ryu ranked so far ahead of Ken?
I know they aren't the same player...but...I would have expected to see them ranked nearly side by side...
Is there some strength that Ryu has (or some weakness of Ken) that I am missing?
Dhalsim rules! (I just wish I was better with him...)
Posted by bob the strong on October 28, 2009 at 1:12 p.m. #246
i guess ryu is higher then ken because hes combos are appaernty easier do complete and i find that his super and ultra are easier to hit.
Posted by VS EVER US on October 28, 2009 at 9:22 p.m. #247
the jeff(#245) this should help lightin your mood Enjoy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijYYtp...
Posted by someone on October 31, 2009 at 10:23 a.m. #248
According to me tier listing is nothing more to but to potray the fact that some of the characters are easy to use and some are difficult.The worst(no way) tier are the ones which i feel are the hardest to learn.not only in mastering their special moves and what not but also in predicting their opponents and countering their moves without risk to them and other aspects which are pivotal to mastering street fighter.But one thing is true mastering a "low tiered" character and effectively using them is very rewarding in every way.
Posted by Steve on November 1, 2009 at 7:43 a.m. #249
Tier lists have nothing to do with the learning curve. It assesses two even players who know the matchup and the character.
Take Gief vs Sagat, one of the most one sided matchups in the game. Gief is a very easy character to 'pick up and play' but he's at a big disadvantage against a Sagat player of the same skill.
Tier lists measure the relative difficulty of each matchup and add them together to see who is the best character overall- nothing at all to do with the learning curve.
Posted by Joseph on November 2, 2009 at 10:33 p.m. #250
I hope they get rid of the 3/10 and 4/10 matchups in SSF4...
Posted by zack on November 3, 2009 at 1:28 a.m. #251
ryu is the king
Posted by Enixine on November 3, 2009 at 8:22 a.m. #252
Oh, how the mighty are fallen. Seems like Bison was a strong contender back in the day, second only to Sagat himself. Now he's barely mid tier.
Posted by Oculus-Orbis on November 4, 2009 at 2:39 p.m. #253
Even still,
Bison is only at a 9 point difference from Ryu/Rog/Rufus
So, just because he's halfway down the list,
it doesn't mean he's not a strong contender.
While many misinformed players would disagree,
SF4 is balanced fairly well(more balanced than all previous SF titles).
That said, even though there ARE some pretty imbalanced matchups, particularly between the topmost and bottom tiers,
when it comes to everyone else in between, they are actually, pretty close.
Posted by Tierman on November 4, 2009 at 4:06 p.m. #254
@Joseph
4/10 matches will always happen in a game. A perfect 5-5 for every character matchup is almost impossible to achieve.
I do agree that there should be less 3/10's to even some playing fields. Any 2/10's or below shouldn't exist (hope they fix Gief/Seth matchup).
Posted by EmblemLord on November 5, 2009 at 12:56 p.m. #255
lol@people who don't know what a tier list is.
And about Elf. He has an EXTREMELY powerful wake-up game and is a very momentum based character, BUT ironically he himself has a weak wake-up defense. We gets knocked down he is in trouble and has a hard time dealing with well timed meaty attacks especially when he has no meter.
He can run train of he gets momentum but if he loses it the fight is usually over. He's a hit or miss tuype of char. That's why in tournies you see elf's rock people in matches then suddenly get knocked out of the tourney out of nowhere.
He isn't consistent enough because he relies on dominating on aspect of the game and he is weak in other areas.
Posted by Itsallabouthemacro on November 11, 2009 at 8:23 p.m. #256
It all depends on the meta game and how it changes. Tier lists have always been random and the only stable tier list that you will find on any fighting game is the Marvel vs. Capcom 2 tier list. (Really now, that game is broken like sht. It's all about that god tier there.) Tier lists will start changing when tactics change as well.
Posted by hh on November 15, 2009 at 1:57 p.m. #257
sahme guile considered on the weaker chracter he is one of my main alnog with ryu ken sagat ans akuma
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