Street Fighter 4 Tiers — Character Rankings
Last updated on April 21, 2009
Tiers have been and will likely always be a hotly debated topic. Just because a character is a higher tier does not mean you should play them. You're best off picking characters you like because of how they play.
Regardless, some people have disadvantages and the tier rankings do an alright job of outlining these, but DO NOT take the rankings as the final end all be all word about who the best characters are. Think of it more as a loose guideline.
April 2009 Tier Rankings with Console Characters
You'll find a chart below showing roughly who would win how many games out of 10 if two high-level players of equal skill played against each other using the characters shown.
For example, M. Bison (Dictator) would win 6 games out of 10 against Crimson Viper. And Sagat would win 7 games out of 10 against Zangief.
Note: All of the names below are based off of the American release of the game. Balrog is the Boxer, Vega is Claw and so on.
| S a g a t |
R y u |
Z a n g i e f |
R u f u s |
B a l r o g |
A k u m a |
B l a n k a |
C h u n L i |
B i s o n |
S e t h |
V i p e r |
K e n |
H o n d a |
G u i l e |
G o u k e n |
R o s e |
D h a l s i m |
F e i L . |
A b e l |
F u e r t e |
C a m m y |
G e n |
V e g a |
S a k u r a |
D a n |
W i n s |
|
| SAGAT | - | 5 | 7 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 7 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 7 | 7 | 7 | 146 |
| RYU | 5 | - | 5 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 7 | 135 |
| ZANGIEF | 3 | 5 | - | 6 | 6 | 4 | 4 | 6 | 6 | 3 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 7 | 7 | 6 | 7 | 7 | 6 | 6 | 7 | 134 |
| RUFUS | 4 | 4 | 4 | - | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 7 | 133 |
| BALROG | 4 | 5 | 4 | 5 | - | 5 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 7 | 132 |
| AKUMA | 5 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 5 | - | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 4 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 7 | 129 |
| BLANKA | 4 | 4 | 6 | 5 | 4 | 5 | - | 5 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 4 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 7 | 6 | 7 | 127 |
| CHUN LI | 4 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | - | 6 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 7 | 127 |
| M. BISON | 4 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 4 | - | 5 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 125 |
| SETH | 4 | 5 | 7 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | - | 3 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 3 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 125 |
| C. VIPER | 5 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 4 | 7 | - | 5 | 4 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 123 |
| KEN | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | - | 6 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 120 |
| E. HONDA | 3 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 6 | 4 | - | 4 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 6 | 4 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 116 |
| GUILE | 3 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 6 | - | 5 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 116 |
| GOUKEN | 4 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | - | 4 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 116 |
| ROSE | 4 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | - | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 116 |
| DHALSIM | 5 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 4 | 5 | - | 5 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 115 |
| FEI LONG | 4 | 4 | 3 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | - | 7 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 115 |
| ABEL | 4 | 4 | 3 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 6 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 3 | - | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 112 |
| EL FUERTE | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 7 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 6 | 5 | 5 | - | 6 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 112 |
| CAMMY | 4 | 4 | 3 | 4 | 4 | 6 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 4 | - | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 111 |
| GEN | 4 | 4 | 3 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | - | 5 | 5 | 5 | 108 |
| VEGA | 3 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | - | 5 | 5 | 107 |
| SAKURA | 3 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | - | 5 | 106 |
| DAN | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | - | 94 |
Tier listing for 2009 — Japanese Arcade Release
This tier ranking was based on the arcade release shortly before the XBox 360 and PlayStation 3 versions of the title were released, as such the home-release only characters are not included.
| Sagat | Ryu | Zang. | Balr. | Bison | Akuma | Chun | Blan. | Rufus | Viper | Ken | Dhal. | Abel | Guile | Honda | Fuerte | Vega | Wins | |
| Sagat | - | 5 | 7 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 7 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 7 | 6 | 7 | 98 |
| Ryu | 5 | - | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 88 |
| Zang. | 3 | 5 | - | 5 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 7 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 86 |
| Balr. | 4 | 5 | 5 | - | 5 | 6 | 4 | 7 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 84 |
| Bison | 4 | 5 | 4 | 5 | - | 5 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 6 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 84 |
| Akuma | 5 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 5 | - | 6 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 84 |
| Chun | 4 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 4 | - | 5 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 83 |
| Blan. | 4 | 5 | 6 | 3 | 4 | 6 | 5 | - | 5 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 82 |
| Rufus | 3 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 5 | - | 6 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 82 |
| Viper | 4 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 4 | - | 5 | 6 | 5 | 6 | 3 | 6 | 6 | 78 |
| Ken | 4 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 5 | - | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 77 |
| Dhal. | 5 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 5 | - | 5 | 6 | 6 | 4 | 5 | 76 |
| Abel | 4 | 4 | 3 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | - | 5 | 6 | 5 | 6 | 75 |
| Guile | 3 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 5 | - | 6 | 6 | 5 | 74 |
| Honda | 3 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 7 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | - | 5 | 5 | 73 |
| Fuerte | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 6 | 5 | 4 | 5 | - | 5 | 69 |
| Vega | 3 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | - | 67 |
Tier listing for 2008 — Japanese Arcade Release
The newer chart above altered these rankings quite a bit. Crimson Viper moved up 4 spots, and several other characters moved or dropped a couple of positions.
| Sagat | Bison | Ryu | Zang. | Akuma | Balr. | Rufus | Blan. | Chun | Ken | Abel | Guile | Dhal. | Viper | Honda | Fuerte | Vega | Wins | |
| Sagat | - | 5 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 7 | 6 | 6 | 7 | 6 | 7 | 96 |
| Bison | 5 | - | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 4 | 6 | 6 | 3 | 6 | 7 | 6 | 6 | 7 | 88 |
| Ryu | 5 | 5 | - | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 88 |
| Zang. | 4 | 5 | 5 | - | 5 | 6 | 5 | 4 | 7 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 7 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 88 |
| Akuma | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | - | 5 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 6 | 82 |
| Balr. | 5 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 5 | - | 5 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 82 |
| Rufus | 4 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 5 | - | 5 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 82 |
| Blan. | 4 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 5 | - | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 4 | 6 | 6 | 81 |
| Chun | 4 | 6 | 4 | 3 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 5 | - | 5 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 81 |
| Ken | 4 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 6 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 5 | - | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 80 |
| Abel | 4 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 5 | - | 6 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 6 | 79 |
| Guile | 3 | 7 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 4 | - | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 77 |
| Dhal. | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | - | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 75 |
| Viper | 4 | 3 | 4 | 3 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | - | 5 | 6 | 5 | 72 |
| Honda | 3 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 6 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | - | 5 | 5 | 72 |
| Fuerte | 4 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 5 | - | 5 | 71 |
| Vega | 3 | 3 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | - | 66 |
Artwork courtesy of GNM LIVE. Contributions to the tier listing by UltraDavid, Henaki, Big_Matt, Bebop3000, Fstrike and DeathScythe.
Posted by Igotdembombs on October 18, 2008 at 8 a.m. #1
Awww hell no dhal higher than vega?
Posted by kimbo on October 18, 2008 at 4:41 p.m. #2
wow vegas the lowest i figured itd be fuerte from my experience playing in the arcade, i also dont see how ken is so much lower than ryu and akuma i think shuld be higher regardless of his stamina rating, im interested to see how seth and gouken will be placed once the console version is released.
Posted by panda on October 19, 2008 at 8:33 a.m. #3
Is capcom incapable of making a non-godtier sagat? Seriously, sagat's top tier in every...single...game. It's getting annoying now.
Also, where did you get this tier list from?
Posted by ArtSasil on October 19, 2008 at 2 p.m. #4
Lol, Panda. U crack me up.
Posted by DForce on October 19, 2008 at 2:02 p.m. #5
Sagat god tier....great
I was hoping Guile would get a higher tier, oh well.
Glad to see Blarog and Chun-Li are ok, and Bison may be my new main now.
Posted by ultra on October 19, 2008 at 2:36 p.m. #6
cripes, sagat is not god tier. did you guys even read the chart he has a serious advantage in 3 matchups and goes almost even or even with everyone else. likewise, even though claw is the lowest, he only really loses a couple of matchups and goes almost even or even with everyone else. sagat and claw differ by only 30 points, which is pretty much a record for the smallest matchup point differential ever in a game with this many characters.
so far, at least, this has not been the kind of game that has distinct tiers. everyone's usable and no one's abusable.
Posted by Catalyst on October 19, 2008 at 5:25 p.m. #7
Yeah, if you look through the list, a lot of matches are 5s, i.e. even.
But even if Sagat is top tier now, keep in mind the home releases will be a 4.1 revision.
Also Ono has said they're not afraid to patch the game after release, although they'd like to wait a year to do it, because what's godly now you can possibly learn counters for, as is usually the case in SF games.
Posted by DForce on October 20, 2008 at 1:45 p.m. #8
Hah, ultra I thank you for clearing that up.
Classic me jumping to conclusions. >_>
Still....I just don't like Sagat, and I forgot about the new characters in the home release lol
There still is hope for Claw B)
Posted by cptcharisma on October 20, 2008 at 6:23 p.m. #9
zangief beats bison 4 times while bison only beats zangief 5 times?
Posted by SHIN on October 23, 2008 at 10:47 a.m. #10
THIS IS THE ARCADE TIER LIST. IM PRETTY SURE ITLL BE FIXED FOR THE HOME CONSOLES
Posted by War Symbol on October 23, 2008 at 3:03 p.m. #11
My list from top too low Sagat,Bison,Ryu,Zang,Rufus,Akuma,Dhal,Abel,Chun,Ken,Guile,Viper,Blan,Vega,Honda,Balr,Fuerte. I Think Dhalsim is REALLY GOOD in this Game but not meny People play with Him, that's why I Think Hes rank low their list, And also the last 5 on their list are very hard to play with.
Posted by SuperFunHappySlide on October 25, 2008 at 9:51 a.m. #12
M.Bison 3-7 against Guile seems awfully steep. Even if Guile has anti air attacks and a projectile, players of equal skill would generally find Dictator to be even with Guile (give or take based on his superior ability to link his lights and mediums so easily for reasonable damage.
Plus, Guile is very limited when he's being crossed up and a good Dictator can cross up successfully after knockdowns and follow up with tick scissors very easily.
I think the Japanese must have this pairing wrong, 4-6 or 5-5 seems much more realistic.
Posted by Jiggaboo Jones on October 27, 2008 at 9:01 p.m. #13
Sagat is too good because of his abusable tiger knee. Especially the short kick version at max range. Also, standing roundhouse into ultra is stupid good. Definitely is the character in need of some neutering.
Posted by CWheezy on October 28, 2008 at 2:10 a.m. #14
I don't think it's sagat that needs nerfing, probably some of the lower characters need to be brought up.
He really doesn't beat everyone handily, he is 6-4 with most of the cast.
A couple buffs here and there to the lower characters would probably bring everything in line.
Posted by devin on October 28, 2008 at 5:10 p.m. #15
I don't care what that chart says. vega is my favorite and best character. he will merc most chars mentioned above. It just alot of people don't know how to use vega because hes a little bit harder to combo with.
Posted by kimbo on October 28, 2008 at 6:12 p.m. #16
i think balrog is a little high up, i think ill wait for the official US tier list
Posted by wimplo on October 28, 2008 at 9:14 p.m. #17
ok stuff vega , cheap ass
Posted by tonester on October 28, 2008 at 9:16 p.m. #18
That chart is broken mathematically. Does anyone not remember their linear algebra and diagonal matrices?
Posted by tonester on October 28, 2008 at 9:23 p.m. #19
I retract my comment - only a couple of mistakes.
Posted by Catalyst on October 28, 2008 at 9:31 p.m. #20
Yeah, there's a couple of problems with Zangief's listing right now.
We'll have that fixed in short order, we're in progress of polling some players to see how we should adjust the listing to fix the mistakes.
Posted by renvy on October 29, 2008 at 2:16 p.m. #21
dictator ftw
Posted by Dre D. on October 30, 2008 at 12:15 p.m. #22
There is no way Ken should be ranked that low. How the hell is Vega last. The top five should b Sagat, Bison, Akuma, Ryu, and Ken.
Posted by Catalyst on October 31, 2008 at 2:03 p.m. #23
By the by, the guide has been fixed so all of the math should add up perfectly now.
Posted by Ave Satanas on October 31, 2008 at 5:19 p.m. #24
how the frig is Zangief 4?
Ahh, Gouki is 5 not bad. :)
Posted by Silverstone on November 1, 2008 at 11:08 a.m. #25
I think abel should be higher up
Posted by lol on November 2, 2008 at 4:42 p.m. #26
sagat is DEFININTELY GOD tier. he can play a turtle/offensive game with no problems at all . tiger knee makes his offensive game real good . tiger uppercut/tiger shot make his turtling game real good , even though your at corner . his ridiculous way to set up for ultra is pure cheap and the damage is highest among all the character.
bison/ryu/zang are at the right placing as well .
but i believe that zangief should be at GOD tier as well . his lariet is the best anti air and anti rushdown move in the entire game . he always WIN in all damage trading scenarios and he takes WAY to little damage.
Posted by Kefka on November 2, 2008 at 6:20 p.m. #27
Abel is not as high as I expected.
Posted by Degan on November 3, 2008 at 3:45 p.m. #28
Abel and Rufus will be moving up on that list. Those two characters are dominating Japan arcades right now.
It's no wonder. Abel has great combo and mix up potential with his role. He also doesn't need to Ex-Focus cancel his raising elbow into his ultra. Which by the way is one of the better ones.
Same with Rufus. That Ex Messiah Kick is just mean, especially on wake-up. He can also standing kick juggle into his ultra with no Focus cancel.
Expect them to move top tier with Sagat.
Posted by rpgfighter on November 3, 2008 at 7:49 p.m. #29
Ken that low? You serious?
Posted by MrHappyface on November 4, 2008 at 1:49 a.m. #30
Vega needs a sudden, "Get out of my face!" super, rather than having two "Please give me a moment so I can bounce off of a wall" super. If Vega had his flip kick super or his toss up & stab form below super, I'm sure he would be mid-tier.
It would be helpful if his DF + MK was also an overhead.
Posted by Panda on November 6, 2008 at 5:09 p.m. #31
Any ideas where gouken, seth, or sakura are on the list yet?
I think we all know where dan's gonna be, heh.
Posted by Insect Royalty on November 7, 2008 at 9:40 p.m. #32
Lies. Vega owns.
Posted by rpgfighter on November 11, 2008 at 4:14 p.m. #33
The tier list was made WAY before those 3 made the arcades.
And we all Dan is top tier, so stop da hating XD
Posted by lang on November 12, 2008 at 7:23 p.m. #34
ermmmm dont ya all think Viper is a POS that's way below any characters????
useless ultra and lousy anti air...how to win anyone except computer AI?
Posted by Woop woop~ on November 14, 2008 at 8:42 a.m. #35
No sagat's not even close to top tier in alpha series :D. But thats about it, in every game he seriously rapes vagina >~>
Posted by panda on November 19, 2008 at 3:27 p.m. #36
For the guy who said that C. Viper sucks, there's a pro called kensou that's been winning a bunch of SF4 touneys in america and she's his only character.
Posted by lang on November 22, 2008 at 5:24 p.m. #37
oh is it? guess there is a genius playa for every character then?
anyway i m playing in Singapore and most experts use Ryu or Zang here.
got a couple of Dictator users who really makes him look god tier though!!
Posted by Valhalla on November 25, 2008 at 5:48 p.m. #38
Bummer that Fuerte is so low the list. :( I want to learn him because he's so fun and it's a total guessing game for your opponent after knocking them down. His damage is just too low and he takes too much, like C. Viper. However, his ultra is pretty easy to land. Just gotta bait out a jump or make them whiff a special or a throw.
I also hear that he fairs much better against the higher tiered characters and loses easier to the low tiers, which really confuses me. :/
Posted by Fightingfan on November 30, 2008 at 11:21 a.m. #39
Like most fighting games that have been released, I think it is still too early to tell what the tiers are. I've seen videos of abel and rufus players and am impressed with their game play. To me all the characters have a chance.
There are a few characters that people hardly play such as e. Honda and el fuerte. I think el fuerte could have potential. Much like Hilde in SC4 whom many at first was bottom tier. Now she is high tier.
Posted by brolijc on December 1, 2008 at 10:02 a.m. #40
@ lang: you play in Singapore? In Bugis? I play there too, M.Bison (Dictator)/Sagat/Abel/Akuma user here, we should play together sometime :)
The top 4 are in the right place imo, Sagat is definetely cheap, long range on normal attacks, lots of ways to juggle ultra which is quite damaging compared to Ryu's Hadoken. M.Bison can pressure opponents easily though I don't see many good Bison users here in my country. Zangief is also cheap, his throws come out quicker than a normal grab so its pretty cheap, plus he deals way too much damage.
Posted by bigvador on December 1, 2008 at 7:39 p.m. #41
Theres no way that ken is that low he should be near ryu
Posted by striderhanzo on December 3, 2008 at 12:02 p.m. #42
if dan has his aerial hurricane kick, watch out. the short version can get you from across screen as a jump in, not to mention, his roundhouse one makes for a decently quick escape.
and his super fireball is the strongest!
he'll be my number one for sure, and jumping up and taunting will be great.
dan is pretty much like dhalsim, good if you know how to use him. its just that simple...
Posted by Sicnarf on December 4, 2008 at 2:56 p.m. #43
I just can't wait the home version bring to the table, with the addition of Fei long, Dan Hibiki, Cammy, Sakura, Rose and Gen, it should be interesting to see what tier they would be placed in.
Posted by Sicnarf on December 4, 2008 at 3:03 p.m. #44
Wow, I must be retarded today, I can't type. I meant to say "I can't wait to see what the home console version of the game brings to the table" etc etc. Anyways, Just wanted to correct myself before someone calls me out on it.
Also, I can't to try Dan, Cammy and Fei Long. Those are some of my fav chars from the whatever game they've been in. We all know that Dan has been in plenty of SF based games, from Pocket Fighter, to Capcom vs SNK 2, to Marvel vs Capcom 2, to the Alpha series. Anyways, I know alot of people make fun of Dan, but boy is it funny and humiliating to lose to a man who wears pink and is the comic relief of the series.
Don't believe me? add me on the PSN, my ID tag is Sicnarf or PotSmokinAtheist. We'll see what's up come February.
Posted by snu on December 5, 2008 at 4:09 a.m. #45
ken's bad. his game is based on kara throws, st.mk poke strings, whereas ryu's flexibility is top notch. you can predict ken but ryu's just got so many tools to punish. ken has ex-shoryu.
zangief takes no skill, just patience. same as blanka.
sagat,ryu,gief,bison,rog,rufus are very solid. but others will take more experience to compensate.
Posted by Colt Steele on December 7, 2008 at 8:58 a.m. #46
Catalyst, don't get your hopes up for a patch. I'll be whoopin up on you with Sagat come release day.
Posted by lang on December 8, 2008 at 5:15 a.m. #47
@brolijc : no i dont really play bugis there cos i still too noob to challenge there. Playing at Suntec instead where the competition is more on par to my level.
hopefully they patch it like SF3 else Sagat is way too unfair to fight.
Posted by ! on December 11, 2008 at 6:21 a.m. #48
bugis also got alot of scrubs. blanka takes no skill btw . same goes for zangief and sagat . sagat is slightly more skill required. these 3 are the top not so much skill needed characters at the moment.
Posted by Arv on December 12, 2008 at 6:26 p.m. #49
I've got a bad feeling about Sakura. There's more than a dozen matches with her on Youtube and she won every single time. High damage, high speed, high damage resistance, high priority, every move combos into something else, nifty super, small hitbox, juggles, etc. etc. etc. Friggin' ridiculous.
There were even a Sagat player and a Zangief player who seemed to know what they were doing, and Sakura handed their asses to them easy. (See for yourself, just search for "street fighter 4 sakura" on Youtube.) I hope they do some serious toning down before they put her in, it would supremely suck to have the magic schoolgirl upset the balanced ecosystem that SF4 has set up so far.
Posted by baz on December 13, 2008 at 5:52 p.m. #50
this ranking is interesting, i would like to see the data set, interesting thing would be to put in the missing data of a character versus the same character, this would give us an idea of the uncertainty value of the stats. I will tell u this, I can't take it too serious after i saw this guy play dalsim. HE WAS DALSIM ! i PLAYED HIM AND HE TREATED ME LIKE A CAT PLAYING WITH HIS FOOD. PEOPLE STOPPED PLAYING HIM AFTER A WHILE CUZ HE WAS SO DISGUSTING. This was at Super arcade in walnut.
Posted by HooD NiNja on December 15, 2008 at 12:06 a.m. #51
WHERE IS CAMMY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by Genxa on December 15, 2008 at 7:52 p.m. #52
for the people who are wondering why Guile against Dic is 7-3, then I shall carefully explain.
All guile needs to do is play defensively.
If we look at attacking options for Dic, and how Guile will counter them, then we can see WHY Guile has such an advantage.
I experienced this while playing japan against a guile player with my dictator.
With Guile sonic booms, it makes it hard to scissor kick in at all.
Any jumpin/crossover attempt by Dic will be spoiled by Guiles cr.HP.
If Dic does Devil Reverse, and trys to hit guile, then cr.HP will win or at least trade (mostly win).
If Dic does Devil Reverse and flys away, then EX sonic boom will catch him.
If Dic does Head Stomp, all Guile needs to do is block the stomp, and then jump foward MP, while Dic is trying to fly away.
All these tatics will work almost every time.
With this kept in mind, it is very VERY hard for Dictator to deal damage.
Posted by ???? on December 16, 2008 at 6:12 a.m. #53
every character in this game is good, don't be fooled by tiers, there are people playing vega wrecking the best chinatown fair players, and pushing the limits of competition, likewise, there are crappy sagat players that lose to everyone.
Posted by Azuro on December 17, 2008 at 2:52 p.m. #54
Hmm...a 30-point differentiation between the top and bottom tiers.
That's...far from being imbalanced, considering a majority of the matchups are pretty slim in advantage/disadvantage ratios, and the small gap between top and bottom.
Remember, 3S's list had like, what, a 60-point differentiation?
Posted by Jamiany on December 20, 2008 at 11:22 p.m. #55
^Except for 3S the last 2 characters were Outliers (Twelve and Sean). And you can pretty much win even with them if you Parry/Red Parry properly with anyone following it up with the most damaging/stunning/positioning/etc combo.
Same applies to this game, if you use your universal abilities to the best capabilities, you can pretty much beat anyone with anyone. Of course, it also helps that the point differences aren't big.
Posted by Azuro on December 21, 2008 at 10:15 p.m. #56
That would apply to any fighter, really.
Posted by KenyanVi on December 25, 2008 at 5:09 p.m. #57
I'm waiting for "championship edition" patch that comes out when the console comes out....if they make a championship editon patch for arcades
Posted by lang on December 26, 2008 at 6:01 p.m. #58
look at this : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N241iW...
virtually a sure thing that we will see not just a champion edition...but a 'super street fighter 2' equivalent of SF4 in arcade.
have to wait of course....
Posted by kimbo on December 27, 2008 at 5:11 p.m. #59
i agree with panda up top. sagat is starting to annoy me, at least most of his strategies are known now because of himm being used so much but its still a bitch.
Posted by FatalDMG on December 29, 2008 at 8:12 p.m. #60
I'm looking forward to the updated tier list although personally I don't tend to pay much attention to them since they don't really prove much. I mean yes it does kinda give you a sense of how each character competes against another one, but I'm not going to use it for anything serious..
I for one am really looking forward to both Gen and Sakura. After watching Justin Wong play a solid sakura, it makes me want to use her even more..
Posted by mito on December 30, 2008 at 8:10 a.m. #61
i think it's going to balance well all in all, its all about personal touch, and like the developers wanted, its about reading your opponents. The amount of practice you put, is how much you will get out. Tiers are just a slight, eye opener if anything at all.
Posted by hybridt on December 31, 2008 at 1:26 a.m. #62
god sakes people this table is by no means the be-all and end all, its simply whats happened between high leveled player thus far(in a game thats pretty early on in its life). Like most good fighting games tier ranking will definately change as people find weaknesses and exploit them but thats besides the point. Dont get to defensive if ur fave char is lower down it does'nt mean anything, Use the character u love, play the game after-all having fun is what its about no?
Posted by X2Sagat on January 4, 2009 at 5:19 a.m. #63
looking forwar to see how good Gouken will be.
Posted by Tier list... on January 4, 2009 at 6:36 p.m. #64
First of all this is just an "arcade" tier list and also missing the rest of the character roster for the home console,and second of all when the console version hits the shelves there most likely will be another tier list in the future you can bet on that.And just because Vega's at the bottom of the list don't mean jack squat he can still woop ass regardless of the tier list.In my opinion this list is just ridiculous,i could really care less who's top tier and who's low tier.
And they could always patch up the game later on,and the almighty Sagat could drop from top spot to mid or somewhere else on that tier list.
Posted by lang on January 6, 2009 at 7:01 a.m. #65
of course any char can make god tier in the rite hands but the list is rather accurate in showing how the top 4 have advantage over the rest.
sagat and dict have ultra that hits really easily and does high damage whether u are falling or on land.
ryu is easy to use and packs a mean ultra fireball.
zang's ultra takes out almost 2/3 of your life...easy.
you can see that with jus a few exceptions, the rest of the crowd has either hard to hit or rather low damage ultras.
Posted by Dan on January 9, 2009 at 1:04 p.m. #66
Wheres dan????
Posted by momo on January 11, 2009 at 9:13 a.m. #67
Abel is definitely top 3.
Posted by Crisium on January 12, 2009 at 6:43 a.m. #68
No, Abel is one of the better characters. The new tier list has him 5th worst. His rekka is quite pointless unless you are looking to FADC into c.HP into ultra.
Posted by Crisium on January 12, 2009 at 6:44 a.m. #69
I mean Abel is NOT one of the better characters. Doh.
There is one very good Abel player in Japan though (Shiro). And American BustaBust is great too.
Posted by lang on January 14, 2009 at 7:45 a.m. #70
Abel in good hands is really a pleasure to watch.
when u see all those combos come out, you'll go 'WTF....?' and his ultra has high damage.
but he's not very high tier cos he is quite difficult to use and master. And his tornado slew misses quite often even though he is point blank distance..
anyone knows why?
Posted by momo on January 18, 2009 at 8:05 p.m. #71
For the guys who play at suntec in Singapore, I stopped by over the weekend, saw a ton of shoto scrubs, a very good guile and a very good balrog.
Is that indicative of the character preferences most of the time? Almost entirely shotos? It was like 90%
Posted by momo on January 18, 2009 at 8:05 p.m. #72
For the guys who play at suntec in Singapore, I stopped by over the weekend, saw a ton of shoto scrubs, a very good guile and a very good balrog.
Is that indicative of the character preferences most of the time? Almost entirely shotos? It was like 90%
Posted by Neowaxx on January 18, 2009 at 11:06 p.m. #73
I`m interested to see how Gouken and Cammy are in the game. Gouken seems like an innovating Ryu/Ken/Akuma variation while Cammy was often low on the tier lists, but i always liked to play her.
And big Kudos to the programmers, it seems as if they really created a balanced game.
Posted by Zelduck on January 20, 2009 at 1:08 a.m. #74
Some JP wiki has this for a tier list
http://www5.atwiki.jp/koko100/pages/1...
It's more recent than this one, but honestly tiers are almost useless at this point. I play Chun in STHD, and unless I somehow end up loving to play Viper (a real possibility), I'm sure I'll end up playing Chun again in IV. (Rose may have a chance with me too).
Posted by D3T0X on January 20, 2009 at 3:16 a.m. #75
Dan should be #1 just 2 C how many players freak out and the fact dat he got them taunts.U aint got nothing on Dan especially with dat pink son!
Posted by ben4zwin on January 20, 2009 at 4:27 p.m. #76
As seen in the recent video, tiers don't really matter. A Dhalsim player pretty much just jOwned all over a Sagat.
Posted by AdonPlease on January 21, 2009 at 12:08 p.m. #77
I was really hoping they would put Adon in the game. I loved him is Alpha especially 3. Maybe they can put him in with add-ons.
Posted by jleadership@gmail.com on January 21, 2009 at 7:23 p.m. #78
There is a lot of capcom characters from the sf unitverse that didn't make the final cut. If you played everyone you would know that there is well over 50. Some you won't even remember.
As fo the tiers, i DON'T THINK THEY MEAN ANYTHING. I have seen people do things so crazy already in china Town NYC, ITS SICKENING.
DAN IS GOING TO BE THAT CHARACTER THAT PISSES PEOPLE OFF. He looks and acts funny as hell, but you have keep your eyes open with him. I would like to see every street fighter character in sf5. Evil ryu will be the boss(with evry fighters moves mastered even his own).
If one thing is for certain I see ryu eventually giving in.
He wants to be a master right ??? (Give us evil ryu)!!!
Posted by lang on January 21, 2009 at 8:26 p.m. #79
@ben4zwin - hey man u have the vidz link for that match?
ermm shoto means akuma, ken and ryu rite?
Posted by naaZ on January 22, 2009 at 10:42 a.m. #80
does anyone have any good video links showing cancels and strategies etc :P
Posted by lang on January 23, 2009 at 7:07 p.m. #81
dude tat JP wiki rank list is useless...how we know who is who since all is in jap and no pix???
anyway, tiers are a good gauge to show which char has inherent advantage.
tat dhalsim IS good but one main reason he won is that most ppl never fought a good dhal and so does not really know how to counter him...giv it a couple months and u'll see how dhal fares.
it's like most ppl know how to fight with/against a shoto since they are always used....
Posted by Mofo on January 25, 2009 at 2:53 p.m. #82
wtf akuma should be top tier and ken should atleast be top of the mid tier 4rm my experience. How come dan cammy rose gen fei long seth nd gouken aint on tha tier list
Posted by rpgfighter on January 25, 2009 at 4:56 p.m. #83
Mofo:
This arcade, the list was made before akuma was confirmed. Also, this is basically broken proved from the last big tournament.
Posted by Hybrid on January 28, 2009 at 6:09 a.m. #84
1. sagat
2. ryu
3. zangief
4. (m. bison in jap) balrog aka boxer
5. chun li, blanka, (j. vega) m. bison aka dictator, rufus, (j. gouki) akuma.
etc...
...according to the japanese link posted above (by someone else). pretty much the same but m. bison is lower, balrog is higher and there are a lot of equal 5ths. also, bottom 3 are the same.
Posted by FeLizP on January 28, 2009 at 9:47 a.m. #85
Dont pay too much attention to the tier list. It simply explains how characters stack against each other. Dont let it interfere with your play experience with your particular character. For example I can pick Vega and I'm pretty decent with him. And still beat a Sagat player because he got sloppy. See. Dont let tier lists discourage you......
Posted by Urban Ninja on January 28, 2009 at 10:02 a.m. #86
Sagat is one of the top characters in the game but really a true player can play with all characters and beat who ever they want
Posted by jleadership@gmail.com on January 28, 2009 at 4:27 p.m. #87
Urban Ninja:
I couldn't of put it better myself.
I have seen it done!
Posted by Khmer2k1d5 on January 28, 2009 at 6:44 p.m. #88
Ken goes down. But it doesn't matter. We'll beat everyone, when we get better, haha.
Posted by yflow on January 28, 2009 at 6:52 p.m. #89
Oh man, Guile isn't shaping up too well.
Ah well, like I said before, it's still pretty early. Besides, tiers didn't stop me from playing people I like before and they won't stop me now.
Posted by jleadership@gmail.com on January 28, 2009 at 6:59 p.m. #90
I agree about ryu but ken and guile.
I don't know about that at all. You really have to be kidding me with guile though. He has some of the nastiest combos I ever seen.
Guess people suck with the chars that I'm good with. Oh well we will improve.
Posted by Phantomx on January 28, 2009 at 7:33 p.m. #91
Tiers are for queers! Im happy though viper got up a few spots but fuerte down, oh well.
What I realised is characters that are lower tier are often not used often or HARD to play with so if you get good with them most people arent used to playing against them which gives you an advantage.
Anyways tiers are less important in sf 4 then it was in sf 3 , i mean in the finals tournament in japan Dhalsim beat Sagat DHALSIM...comon. just my 2 cents.
Posted by 1st2nd3rd4th on January 28, 2009 at 8:57 p.m. #92
@baz
You play at super arcade, walnut? dude, we should meet up and play bro.
Posted by tiers = tears on January 28, 2009 at 9:27 p.m. #93
top tier =
abuseable (tiger knee, shoryu)
versatile (many ways to do huge dmg, i.e sadc > ultra)
combo ability
zoning tools. (or anti-zone) normals and teleports
opportunity costs. (tiger knees risk nothing for potential dmg)
lower tier =
comparatively less or next to none of the above
conclusion: a list to give an idea of investment of time to be competitive.
excluding bison + balrog. skill based higher tiers
ryu/sagat/gief less so.
Posted by SSJ3X on January 28, 2009 at 10:24 p.m. #94
Even if you nerf'd Sagat, he'd still probably be the highest because of his durability with a good player.
Regardless though, I try to not pay attention to it much. I play with the people I play with because they're my best characters. In the end, it's always the skill you have that overcomes the odds on favorite.
Posted by D3T0X on January 29, 2009 at 12:54 a.m. #95
Tiers don't mean much to a true player right?
Posted by Dark Hadou on January 29, 2009 at 2:22 a.m. #96
Vega should be number 1.
Posted by ED on January 29, 2009 at 3:35 a.m. #97
The dude winning the championship with Dhalsim didn't changed his position much. XD
It's interesting to see how much people discuss about a tier list. Bla, bla, bla, skills are the important, etc. Sure, they are. Actually, things are like this: the higher the position on the tier list, the less effort you need to make to win.
However, if you are good enough, you can take the botton tier against the top tier and still win.
It just takes more skill as you distance the characters in the list. Becomes harder, but not impossible.
Posted by Pwnage imminent on January 29, 2009 at 5:11 a.m. #98
F**k tier lists... learn ur character inside out and u can best anyone with the right strategy and perserverance. Tier lists should NEVER factor into the way u play.
Posted by Igotdembombs on January 29, 2009 at 9:34 a.m. #99
WHO THE HELL MAKES THESE TIER LISTINGS? THEY SUCK
Posted by Blanko Blanko on January 29, 2009 at 10:25 a.m. #100
Safari-Blanka is GOD Tier!
Posted by London Dry on January 29, 2009 at 10:46 a.m. #101
To the people going off about tiers don't matter because a Dhalsim player beat a Sagat player in that tournament maybe you should actually look at the specifics. Sure Dhalsim is ranked pretty low overall but his specific matchup against Sagat was 6/4 in Sagat's favor on the old chart and even improved to 5/5 in the new chart meaning that match is essentially equal from a character selection standpoint.
Tiers are of course not the end all be all of any game but they do have something to say about the match-ups. If tiers have no significance then the fact that the chart says Honda is at a 3/7 disadvantage against Sagat should have no bearing on the match-up, but the reality of the situation is this is one of Honda's bad match-ups. It's pretty much universally known that Honda has tough times against projectile characters and needs a lot to go in his favor to win against them, especially Sagat; the data on the chart supports that.
Also all these "I win with my character despite them being low tier" , or "beasting with a low tier characters proves tiers to be invalid" (same goes for the scrubby/top tier complaint) or "that Dhalsim won because most people don't know the match-up" arguments are completely invalid. Tiers are supposed to be pretty objective and thus are made in an objective way (of course allowances for margin of error can be made). The Japanese form these tiers by holding ranking battles where players deemed by the community to be experts in their character and of approximately equal in skill level play against each other in a best of 10 series repeatedly and then average it out. It's probably the most objective way possible to do this and of course people make mistakes and judging people to be exactly equal in skill is where the errors can come in but the point is these things aren't arbitrary, they're fairly scientific.
That being said tiers in SF IV have much less significance because there are a lot fewer bad match ups and less dramatic disparities between tier levels and characters. There are reasons why people bother to make these charts and its not to make you angry that your favorite character isn't considered very good, it's because it tells you something in a very general way about how a match-up may go for your character and indicates you are going to have to figure out why it's bad in specific and what you need to do about it.
Play who you want, learn your match-ups but don't discount people's hard work on tiers just because it hurts your feelings about your character. Skill is always a factor but so is your moveset, the greatest hitter of all time can't get many home runs without a bat.
By the way I have every intention of using Honda and Abel as my mains regardless of what the chart says, but I respect the chart for what is has to say.
Posted by dann on January 29, 2009 at 11:13 a.m. #102
the definitive tier list:
balrog, balrog, balrog, balrog... and balrog
Posted by they call me the bob on January 29, 2009 at 11:48 a.m. #103
the balance they seem to have given this game impresses, and reliefs me a ton. the fact that Abel has sunk in the tier list makes me a little sad, but I still plan on playing him, Dic and Boxer.
I can't wait to see how they balance out the console exclusive characters and how/if they will balance the game when it's released on consoles.
Posted by rpgfighter on January 29, 2009 at 12:58 p.m. #104
Balrog has always been my best along with ken. Glad to have them at 2 great spots.
Posted by Silver on January 29, 2009 at 2:55 p.m. #105
Ken and Cammy all the way, doesn't matter to me how good / bad they are, i play the characters i like regardless.
i'm p.o'd that Cammies spinning backfist ends with the up motion.. i preferred HD Remix's version, as now i'll just end up jumping around half the time, but meh.
and Dan's #1, you all know it, Legendary Taunt ftw >=D
Posted by FightFan on January 30, 2009 at 3:28 p.m. #106
A lot of you seem to be just looking at the ranking and not looking at the stats. Why are you worried about Abel's ranking? He has one bad matchup and against everyone else it's pretty much a coin flip. The same goes for everyone else on the lower half of the list. When I see a 4 it makes me think they might have a tiny disadvantage but in the next 10 matches they could easily win 6.
Posted by momo on January 30, 2009 at 6:03 p.m. #107
Wow.. Guile really sucks in the rankings.
Posted by Rolo18 on January 31, 2009 at 2:14 a.m. #108
It sucks that capcom didn't put any thought into their movesets when they created the characters in the street fighter games. What they should have done was when they made a move for a character, they should have made sure that each and every one of the other characters has at least one way of countering it. There are too many match ups in the games where one character dominates with their abusable moveset.
Or they could have at least did what SNK did with king of fighters and give everyone a roll to easily avoid projectile spammers. Things like this keep the game level for all characters.
Posted by attilio 88 on January 31, 2009 at 10:15 a.m. #109
come on boys, some posts looks so naif!
first: tier lists evolve. the game will offer more opportunities for pro to improve the chars. I'm sure this list won't be the final.
second: also at this state, this list speaks about a game super balanced. NO 8/2! take guile for example, just a good disadvantage with sagat (3/7) and a lot of 5 or 4. much better than in super turbo where he was ranked 8th. there you had two 2 (sagat, dhalsim) and two 3 (claw, blanka) for a total of 4 match-ups of bad pain.
Posted by momo on February 1, 2009 at 6:26 a.m. #110
Guile and Abel are 2 of the most dominant toons at my arcade.. I think they should be way higher.
Posted by nick da ruler on February 1, 2009 at 10:03 a.m. #111
rufus abel and ken run it!!!!!
Posted by momo on February 1, 2009 at 6:22 p.m. #112
Updates need to be issued.
Guile's jab should do 50% damage per hit instead.
Posted by Igotdembombs on February 1, 2009 at 9:44 p.m. #113
WHAAAAAAT! Obviously whoever made this
chart has NEVER played in a match with Sagat vs Vega. NEVER.
Because vega can easy cross the stuffing out of Sagat. Vegas attacks are easier to land since Sagat is so tall. That's definitely not a 3/10 match-up.
Maybe I need to vs a better Sagat?
Posted by Akuma on February 2, 2009 at 9:04 a.m. #114
Whoever tallied akuma's wins is stupid
Posted by attilio 88 on February 2, 2009 at 9:48 a.m. #115
for Igotdembombs who has written:
"WHAAAAAAT! Obviously whoever made this
chart has NEVER played in a match with Sagat vs Vega."
the answer is no. the match on the base of this list are played by multiple pro players. the best vegas play against the best sagats and this is the result.
the only consideration I can do is that claw/vega in sf history never came out balanced. often dominant, sometimes dominated.
Posted by Emrah on February 3, 2009 at 7:14 a.m. #116
Ken gameplay very bad.Sf4 tierlist almost true.Never I cant see sf2 folowing unjust.I hope next sfgames gameplay commutative.
Posted by Ryan on February 3, 2009 at 7:40 a.m. #117
I was wondering why Ken was so low in the tier list. But then I started thinking about it, the only reason I can come up with is his recovery time can be absolutely awful. When you attack with ken, make sure it connects, otherwise you will be left open.
Posted by Ryan on February 3, 2009 at 7:42 a.m. #118
When I was young I used to think Zangief wasnt very good. Over the past few years i've started to use him more and more, now he's my main. The changes they made to him for HD Remix are great, easier to pull off the movies, but easier for new comers to learn him. Can't wait to play Zang in SFIV. ImPuLsE PaRaDoX is my gamertag, to all who is gonna play.
Posted by Mick on February 3, 2009 at 10:45 a.m. #119
For those complaining that this list is dumb or these rankings don't mean anything:
PLEASE READ London Dry's great explanation, #101. That is all.
Posted by Colton on February 7, 2009 at 8:20 a.m. #120
I like this tier list and who knows ur character might be better in the console version
Posted by Proteq on February 7, 2009 at 10:38 a.m. #121
what about the new chars? felong gen gouken seth ?
Posted by Ryuzaki on February 7, 2009 at 5:25 p.m. #122
chun-li will be a little higher in the list i have seen players use her in SF3 style not entirely but most of the time
Posted by Vince on February 9, 2009 at 8:57 a.m. #123
People complaining before the consoles even out..
Posted by B Carroll on February 9, 2009 at 9:21 a.m. #124
Hi I'm pretty new to Street Fighter so can some one explain why Honda beats viper so much more than other chars?
Posted by Trolle on February 9, 2009 at 1:16 p.m. #125
Why don't you understand 2 things:
1. These stats are from the japanese arcades
2. Mostly japanese people play in Japan and might have different views on favorite characters than others (west).
Posted by Jow279 on February 12, 2009 at 4:37 a.m. #126
no matter who is the best,
to unlock the secrets ones you gotta finish the arcade mode with a specific character...i already have dan and sakura...i am hoping to get akuma...but,that's a loooong way to go...
Posted by Rainman on February 13, 2009 at 3:09 a.m. #127
When will this be updated with the new Arcadia tier listing for February? Apparently S+ is Sagat, Viper, Akuma, & Zangief.
Posted by SF4 on February 13, 2009 at 9:17 a.m. #128
The Japan SF4 National Tournament has won by a Dhalsim player, who easily beat the best Sagat player in the finals. So when is this tier list going be updated?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ue4G49...
Posted by Vega Lover on February 13, 2009 at 8:41 p.m. #129
Ridiculous. Vega is underrated. The worst character my foot.
Posted by they call me the bob on February 14, 2009 at 7:50 a.m. #130
@ SF4: one good player beating another good player does not change the match-up altogether. you have to take frame data, priorities of attacks, the amount of options both characters have and the majority of the matches that have been played into account.
@ Vega Lover: Vega is unfortunately not underrated. he does crappy damage, hasn't got very good priority, gets beaten by most characters with a good AA-attack and has low health. this does not stop him from being played competitively, however and if you keep playing him and improve with him then maybe you can disprove the tier list and make him go higher if you truly believe he belongs higher up!
I think this tier list looks rather accurate and it amazes me how balanced this game is when the worst characters in the game actually have a chance to beat the best ones, albeit not a very large one. I think C. Viper should be a liiittle bit lower on the list, say one or two spots down, but otherwise I don't have much to add. Dhalsim seems to be the most "balanced" character in the game with very few 4's and 6's and a lot of 5's. they actually managed to make him a mid tier character!
Posted by Learn to read tiers PLZ on February 14, 2009 at 4:44 p.m. #131
@SF4: Learn how tiers work before demanding an update. Yes, overall Dhalsim is low on the tier list, but if you actually looked at the INDIVIDUAL match up statistics you would see that Sagat vs Dhalsim is 5. That means that every ten matches Sagat wins 5 I.E. an EVEN MATCH-UP. Dhalsim ranks low because all his match-ups are 4-6. What that mean is Dhalsim players receive no natural advantages, but at the same time no one has an advantage over him. A character with 5s across the board would appear low on the tiers but be the best for an incredibly skilled player because if they have more skill they would win every time because they are not weak against any other characters. Also, everyone assumes they will fight Sagat in tournament so they spend time researching him. So, sure, he is higher tier, but people are more familiar with how to work around it. Just look at Q in 3rd Strike, low tier but every once and a while you see a dude beasting with him because most people are not used to fighting a competitive Q. Low tier does not equal useless.
LEARN HOW TIERS WORK BEFORE POSTING COMMENTS! ONE VIDEO PROVES NOTHING NEITHER DO YOUR PERSONAL ANECDOTES ABOUT BEATING SOMEONE.
Posted by jdnice11 on February 15, 2009 at 6:51 p.m. #132
well as expected Sagat is the best as he should be, but the tier raking shouldnt matter... its all about which character you like and how well you play with them.
Posted by Alex on February 15, 2009 at 9:28 p.m. #133
Something that I noticed on the tier list is that yes sagat is #1 overall, but by ALOT. The difference is a whopping 10 wins. Just by looking at that everybody should be thinking nerf. It sucks Vega is so low....and has low damage....considering he fights with damn blades.
Posted by Bubbles on February 16, 2009 at 11:25 p.m. #134
LOL any post with tiers is a cesspool of scrubs who don't understand what tiers actually mean.
Posted by Bubbles fanboy on February 18, 2009 at 7:11 a.m. #135
Thank you, Bubbles.
Posted by Mr@ on February 19, 2009 at 10:38 a.m. #136
When are they going to put up a console version tier list??i know the game just came out,but i'm eager to see how the list will change from the arcade one.
Posted by toobig007 on February 19, 2009 at 11:51 a.m. #137
i love blanka and can beat anybody with him. iv played the new game on x360 and i love the balance of this game. sagats not all that just gotta be patient. treat it like a boss battle. the key to beatn him is too stay in mid range of him that way he cant uppercut you or do a tiger then attack when hes not ready.
Posted by Jarod on February 19, 2009 at 12:48 p.m. #138
Tiers looking good, although I'm a bit disappointed with Ken so far...Not because of Tiers, it's just that I play Ken pretty defensively and rely heavily on his anti-air game, then I go in for a cross up and mini-hadoken lockdown game.
In SF4 it seems his shoryuken trades hits with everything!! And his low shoryuken was one of the best moves in the game before because of it's power and short recovery time, now it's extremely slow and you can't do two back to back to counter someone from coming in too slow.
This is the main reason I prefer to play with Ken, because of his weak DP. Maybe I just need to practice more, but it seems to be too slow in this one to be as effective as SF2.
I don't have enough skill to rely on dash canceling and ultimates linked into combos.
This sucks. Anyone got pointers?
Posted by Kris on February 19, 2009 at 2:42 p.m. #139
Someone should take the Vs. mode on the console, put it on the very hardest mode, and place computer Vs. computer with each character vs each character with 10 rounds each. With that you should be able to come up with a more accurate tier system that includes the console characters too.
Posted by Frank on February 19, 2009 at 5 p.m. #140
y no fei long???
Posted by Darren on February 19, 2009 at 6:58 p.m. #141
This is based on the arcades, not the console versions. That's why Sakura, Cammy, Rose, Dan, Gen, Gouken, and Seth aren't on the list either.
Posted by Frustrated on February 19, 2009 at 9:42 p.m. #142
I have to admit to enjoying some of the sheer excesses of opinion in these comments (while others, like London Dry's up at 101's, as mentioned before, are worth reading as being actually well-said commentary). But most of it is really just folly.
Really, it's not practical to *argue* with a tier chart. It isn't even really sensible. To even attempt so is just misunderstanding what is going on here.
To really say that a tier chart represents "who is better" in some perfect, existential sense is wrong. That's up to the gaming theorists, who I'm perfectly happy to give their own space. But a tier chart is more modest than that; it tallies what characters tend to win against other characters in a large statistical analysis. So to say "Vega got underrated." is hilarious. It's not like there is someone rating the characters from their own Street Fighting Throne of Righteousness. It's useful for people to see what characters have tended to have success in competitive tournaments, and point to certain tendencies in specific match-ups between groups of characters.
That's not to say, of course, that some person cannot have figured out how to use Guile such that no one can beat him. But this chart *doesn't actually care about that*. It's too broad an analysis for that. So to say that Dhalsim's victory at the major tourney is even relevant is to have (yet again) completely jumped the shark.
So, in other words, this isn't where you want to look for the perfect hypothetical "what character can be used to the best effect?" It is pretty good at "what character is being used to the best effect?" But that's a very different argument. Getting upset because the tier chart tells you that your character sucks isn't really productive to anyone involved, and certainly not a good use of the space in commenting about the chart itself.
As to the chart itself; I'm really quite pleased. There are no gargantuan disparities here; everyone seems to at least be in decent play of everyone else. Even Fuerte and Vega at the bottom are largely in the 4:6 range, which isn't a terrible match-up at all (there are some 3:7's, but they're not excessive, and there aren't any 2:8's). I hope the new characters keep it close to that balance; the news that Sakura could be overwrought is distressing (it doesn't help that's it's *Sakura*, admittedly. Couldn't you overpower someone more ominous and impressive (Rose and Gen come to mind) if you had to with someone? Ok, I'm kidding, but still...)
Ok, so I'll pony up and admit to being thrilled at the the SFIII: Third Strike chart, too, but that's only because Yun and Chun-Li are just about my favorite characters (along with Ibuki and Yang), and that they were doing so well there was awesome in its own way. But, really, it's a good step towards an ideal 5:5 balance across the board with every character having a significantly move-set (note "ideal", of course).
Posted by Arcelonious on February 20, 2009 at 7:25 p.m. #143
I've noticed that many people have commented on why Ken is much lower than Ryu.
I think one big reason that sets Ryu apart from Ken concerns their ultra moves. Ryu's Metsu Hadouken is one of the most versatile ultra moves in the game. It can be used on a crumpled target after a Focus Attack, it can be used to juggle someone following a focus attack dash canceled dragon punch, it can be used to juggle someone after an EX Fireball or EX Hurricane Kick in the corner, and you can even use it if you hit someone in the air with a jumping medium punch.
Ken's Shinryuken, on the other hand, has fewer ways for it to connect. You also have to be at a specific range for it to do its entire damage.
If you look at Sagat, he also has a very versatile ultra move.
Second, I think Ryu places a lot higher than Ken because Ryu has a balanced offensive and defensive game, whereas Ken is more offensive-based. Again, look at Sagat, and even Zangief, who both have a balanced offensive and defensive game as well.
Not to say that Ken is horrible, because he is far from it. I just think that there are some distinct strengths that Ryu has over Ken.
Posted by No Biggie on February 20, 2009 at 10:43 p.m. #144
Only fair that they boosted Ryu up a bit and knocked Ken down. Mixes things up from 3rd Strike to 4.
Posted by teepyoface84 on February 20, 2009 at 11:49 p.m. #145
muay thai rules!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!go sagat
Posted by chris on February 21, 2009 at 6:23 a.m. #146
I get the feeling from playing that Ryu just seems "Stronger" in this game. In SF 2 HD remix Ken was a lot stronger. . .
Posted by Guile User.. on February 21, 2009 at 4:15 p.m. #147
Wow Is he really that bad? I use him online a lot but so far Ive won 3 out of 4 matches online whenever I play with him.
Posted by Home Tiers? on February 21, 2009 at 5:27 p.m. #148
I wonder what the home version tiers will be...
It's kinda sad to see Vega so low...he could use some buff ups. He's kinda soft, he dizzies very easily but can't dish out any kind of real pain like Akuma can.
Either way, no matter where my favorites end up, I'll always be using them. Vega is fun as ever to use, and Cammy is still my favorite.
EEOOOWWWW!!!!!!
Posted by Fiber on February 21, 2009 at 8 p.m. #149
Fei Long may be top tier due to his heavy advantage on Abel and Seth due to the infinite combo loop he has on them.
Posted by Zenosbleed on February 22, 2009 at 3:20 a.m. #150
This was the most recent tier list from Tougeki Damashii:
S +
Sagat, Viper, Gouki, Zangief
S
Ryu, Bison, Rufus, Blanka
A
Chun li, Vega, Ken, Dalshim, Abel, Honda, Fuerte
B
Balrog, Guile
Balrog, Vega, and Bison are referring to their Japanese names (i.e. Balrog = Claw).
Posted by SargeantKG on February 23, 2009 at 8:09 a.m. #151
The Reason Ken ranks llow in Tier is because he plays Home Run Hitter, Kens recovery is slow and as is such he can take a lot of damage if you dont connect with him, I play as Ken and am winning te majority of my matches but you have to be a timing guru to play as him effectively. I think the tier is correct, it is easier to be a great Sagat player than is to be a great Ken or Claw player. I think that is what the tier explains, who is easiest to dominate with, not who is the dominate character. I accept all Sagat players.
Posted by hidden-koncept on February 23, 2009 at 10:45 a.m. #152
i wasn't too shocked to see how low ken is compared to ryu...his hadoken's recover way too slow and his ultra special is too situational.
i main ken, always have, always will...would of liked him to be a lil better...but he is still good enough for me.
he is still the most used fighter online...in my experience.
i might have to train up viper as an anti sagat/ryu character
Posted by arexxk on February 23, 2009 at 11:52 a.m. #153
AHHHH I HATE ZANGIEF!!!!
and akuma n ken got jipped. akuma should be higher tier than ryu and ken should either lower or higher than ryu, but w/e Capcom's probably going to patch the game anyways.
Posted by Mike on February 23, 2009 at 1 p.m. #154
Does it matter what the tier rankings are for online play? 90+% of the time you're fighting Ken or Ryu anyway. ;)
Posted by sagatking on February 23, 2009 at 1:01 p.m. #155
they call sagat the KING for a reason :D
Posted by Chun-li user on February 23, 2009 at 1:07 p.m. #156
Chun Li is right where she should be. not crappy and not cheap.
Posted by quarter-circle+punch on February 23, 2009 at 1:09 p.m. #157
The only reason, that Ryu is stronger than Ken. Is for one reason only, so you'll STFU.
Posted by G on February 23, 2009 at 1:48 p.m. #158
huh I thought Vega would have an advantage over Sagat, cause of his large size. It would be easier to land those aerial grabs and Ultras
Posted by SargeantKG on February 24, 2009 at 11:58 a.m. #159
Kens ultra is terribly situational i find it best to jump into and bust through an attack but it does pack a whallop, I experimenting last night letting the opponent deal enough damage and get comfy in close so I could unleash the songun right in the gut and it worked out pretty well. 11-2 last night :)
Posted by Vikko on February 24, 2009 at 2:59 p.m. #160
Muay Thai Sagat! Yeeehaaa
Posted by Bruce on February 24, 2009 at 5:52 p.m. #161
Uh, why isnt sakura on the list?
Posted by MikeC on February 24, 2009 at 7:34 p.m. #162
Dahal Sux azz he was the shyt on HD remix. now he is ruin i will never use him
Posted by MikeC on February 24, 2009 at 7:37 p.m. #163
This game also needs air blocks and dash jumps. that would provide endless tact and more balance for every character.
Posted by Gen on February 24, 2009 at 9:48 p.m. #164
LOL@AIRBLOCK
Posted by G on February 24, 2009 at 10:27 p.m. #165
man I hated airblocks, its the only thing I hated about alpha, it made anti-air moves and priority less important
I hope they add the console ver. soon I want to see if the game got even MORE balanced
Posted by KonkeyDong on February 25, 2009 at 3:14 a.m. #166
Y are most of the holders in SF4 totally s**t?!!!
Posted by z3poxx on February 25, 2009 at 8:50 a.m. #167
I cant really understand why everybody seams so upset about the tier list, either it's Sagat is to strong or my (insert chars name here) is so low tier.
I did to main Vega but i stopped because i wanted to try out Abel and i was freaking pawning with him.
Seriously i had i win streak of 14 consecutive in ranked online matches with Vega. And im no pro or a street fighter guru who has bean playing since the dawn of SF.
No i started playing often when i got SSF2HDR, and that game was released October 2008, so only if you practice and play regularly with one character so should you be stacking up victories pretty soon withe any character in the entire game.
Posted by Russel on February 25, 2009 at 6:07 p.m. #168
so many ken's and ryu's online. i welcome all you shotos. makes it easier for my honda to get some wins ;)
it's too bad the "pros" don't rank him very high though. i'll have to prove them wrong.
Posted by Kibakichi on February 25, 2009 at 6:16 p.m. #169
i notice the tier list doesn't have Sakura on it where does she stand in the tier list?
Posted by Bruce on February 25, 2009 at 6:30 p.m. #170
Wow, online is so gay. Its just a bunch of losers using ryu,ken,akuma, or sagat. Seriously that is like 95% of the online population. If youre one of those losers, just know, i hate you.
Posted by READ on February 25, 2009 at 8:52 p.m. #171
OMG Why isn't Sakura on the tier list?
"Tier listing for 2009 — Japanese Arcade Release"
ARCADE TIER NOT CONSOLE TIER
The game has been out for a week there isn't accurate tier data yet. CHILL
Posted by Osama on February 25, 2009 at 10:58 p.m. #172
There are no tiers you f:ucking AMerican sh!ts!! There never were. Stop making excuses that when you really suck.
Posted by Element519 on February 25, 2009 at 11:26 p.m. #173
I use Sagat and win 90% of the time. Doesn't mean someone that is really rape age with a character cant kick my face in. There is do, only try. :P
Posted by razorsmile on February 26, 2009 at 7:49 a.m. #174
heh, people online are so stressy, my inbox has been flooded with people calling me a ken spammer since ive been playing,, makes me laugh at least. i really only think the tier system applies to really good players who are incredibly evenly matched. if your good with your chosen character, even if it is vega then you stand a good chance of winning, simple as.
Posted by Panda on February 26, 2009 at 2:58 p.m. #175
To 'osama':
As long as the characters in a fighting game aren't carbon copies of one another, they will vary in how good they are against one another.
And if they vary in how good they are against one another, then there are tiers, by definition.
Don't rage against tiers that aren't even accurate yet, and are usually made the the japanese to boot (the 'f:ucking AMerican sh!ts' comment couldn't BE less called for).
Posted by The Psycho Spanish Ninja, Jink on February 26, 2009 at 3:45 p.m. #176
I play Vega (Claw) and I kick a$$ with him. But its true the information about him losing in hit trade situation. I had my EX Flying Claw interrupted by MP from Ryu. It pisses me off in the moment, but I still come out victorious from matches.
Tiers are the ways to define how hard or how easy it is to win with a character against another character. Tiers do not dictate if a character can or can't win. All characters in good hands can win. If it is a higher tier then it might be easier to win against a lower tier character. But lower tier character can still come out victorious.
Tiers are apart from gambles and mix ups throughout the battle, i.e. 50/50 chances for every out come. Tier ranks and Lucky mix ups are not the same thing.
Personal example: I like and play hard games like Contra, Ikaruga, GradiusV, Battletoads, etc. So in fighting games, I always use the lowest tier in the game. Because I personally like challenges and hard things to beat. And I beat them. I can never play a character that feels easy to win with. Not my style. Is a matter of whether you are a hard core or a casual gamer. High tiers compensate a gamer who doesn't have much time in their hands to play a fighting game. But this is a matter of opinions and difference between gamers, and not stated facts. If you are facing an opponent with a higher tier character than yours, then enjoy the challenge and don't get mad over it. Because that's when you get to lose more often, when you are mad and not thinking straight into the battle, but you rather are more busy thinking about how bad your character is. To whoever does this, stop complaining and start playing.
Posted by silentQ on February 27, 2009 at 9:39 p.m. #177
why ppl underestimate Balrog so much.. i wonder.. yeah he got no kicks and he's complicated to use.. but if ppl took time to learn him he's an awesome pick.. covers sick distance, massive damage, sick super/ultra.. it's like Tyson reborn.. pity Capcom didnt make ear biting move...
Posted by s on February 27, 2009 at 10:46 p.m. #178
Where is it that you see Balrog underestimated? He is currently 4th...
Posted by silentQ on February 28, 2009 at 3:55 a.m. #179
I'm not saying regarding tiers, i'm saying general in the game itself very few pick Balrog
Posted by Bubbles on February 28, 2009 at 6 p.m. #180
why is everyone here so scrubby? seriously. tiers are based on the highest available play. 99.9% of online players are far from that apex, so tiers would not matter in the slightest.
here is what i see for most of the online play: scrubs who think ryu/sagat is all about spamming and cant deal with ppl moving in, or kens that spam srk and jumping tatsus all day.
Posted by Alejandro on February 28, 2009 at 7:22 p.m. #181
I use sagat but I constantly get beaten by a more skilled ken player.
First stop calling people scrubs it's real nerdy.
Tiers are popularity contests and statitics, but skill overides tiers.And no I don't suck ,but I am not the best.
Posted by jethro on February 28, 2009 at 8:43 p.m. #182
"Posted by silentQ on February 27, 2009 at 9:39 p.m. #178
why ppl underestimate Balrog so much.. i wonder.. yeah he got no kicks and he's complicated to use.. but if ppl took time to learn him he's an awesome pick.. covers sick distance, massive damage, sick super/ultra.. it's like Tyson reborn.. pity Capcom didnt make ear biting move..."
hahahaha
Posted by bokchoy on February 28, 2009 at 11:56 p.m. #183
Balrog is definitely not complicated to use. haha.
Posted by GuyLewis on March 1, 2009 at 10:40 a.m. #184
I unlocked seth yesterday, and it was such a letdown, he has no stamina whatsoever, from what ive gathered its less than akuma. Unless seth gets banned from tourneys, then he will no doubt be low tier ^^
Posted by Sad on March 1, 2009 at 11:36 a.m. #185
Why is Vega last?? He's definitely not the worst, i think he should be way up higher. Vega is AWESOME!!
Posted by Vega on March 1, 2009 at 12:42 p.m. #186
Yeah, I definitely don't see how Vega is last. The person who was testing as him must not have really mastered him.
Posted by s on March 1, 2009 at 8:41 p.m. #187
Riiight.
Tiers just represent trends in usage and winrates... nothing more, nothing less. Stop looking at it as a gauge for how good a character definitively is. Vega is plenty competitive. The difference between the top and bottom of the list isn't much and Vega only have a few 3/7 matchups anyway. Anything in the 4-6 range can go either way easily, 3/7 is still fine. If it was a bunch of 1/9s however... then yes he might be a bit difficult to win with.
Posted by Voice of Texas on March 2, 2009 at 11:25 a.m. #188
I think it's time we make a revised 360 tier list.
I'll make a quick one right here right now. (In no particular order)The list is based on skill, when true players use them.
God/SPAM Tier (Some skill, Zang and Seth= CHEAP)
Sagat (G/S), Zangief(S), Seth(S)
A Tier (4star)
Ryu, Ken, Chun, Akuma, Gouken, Blanka, Abel, Bison
B Tier (3star)
C.Viper (If used by a good player A) Dhalism, Vega, Guile, Balrog, Gen, Sakura, Cammy
C Tier (2star)
Fei Long (If used by a good player A-B), Rose (If used by a good player B) El Fuerte, E.Honda, Rufus (If used by a good player B)
D. Tier (1star)
Dan (I mean hell, it's Dan Tier...but if used right, you can make him A-C no joke.)
Okay now that's done, it'd be best if people who have played the game take account, to the stamina ratings and speeds, priorities, etc. With that, then you can see why my Tier list is pretty accurate, then with what we know. We can make the match up one, with the following list. So it will be a revised list.
Be sure to ignore infinite and spam combos.
Until then, enjoy and keep playing.
Posted by Shade on March 2, 2009 at 1:07 p.m. #189
That's a pretty accurate list. It's good to see that Vega is not at the bottom because he has a lot of potential if used right. This game is actually pretty balanced if you learn to use everyone correctly.
Posted by pony on March 2, 2009 at 2:22 p.m. #190
That tier list is complete nonsense as it's far too early to tell how the console characters stack up.
You don't put a character one place then say "if the player is good, they go here", the point of tier lists is to give a rough idea of how well a character does in high level tournament play.
Seth isn't anywhere close to top tier considering he loses 1/6 of health on every hit he takes - he is a high risk character that you pretty much have to learn to use so that you never take a hit, good luck doing that against someone like a good Boxer player.
Oh, and like it or not, infinites actually do come into account in tier lists - El Fuerte's (run > stop > fierce > repeat) is practically the only thing keeping him from being worst character in the game.
Posted by pony pwner on March 2, 2009 at 3:13 p.m. #191
that teir list is pretty accurate w/o the console char's
have u ever played with el fuerte?? he is completly crap, that "infinite" isnt even a real infinite, and is very very hard to do!!!
and i've seen a seth destroy a decent boxer, if u dont get hit seth rapes, but this is a fighting game and getting hit happens(which is the reason he should never be banned from tourney play)
Posted by Voice of Texas on March 2, 2009 at 3:35 p.m. #192
Obvioualy pony (not pwner) you don't read the SPAM on it.
Okay then bro, so the game on the xbox 360 hasn't been out long. It's not that hard to go into training compare all the hits. As well experience online play, yet you don't realized the game has been in Japan longer too.
Seth havinng low health is a fault, but I stated it can be revised due to the Stamnina ratings. So please read carefully, also if that mattered Akuma would be like C tier. Seth can be Spam and if not A B, as well as characters being played well. It does show that they can be a different tier. I mean if you suck with Ryu doesn't mean he is low tier. Is that not what skill is meant for?
Posted by Voice of Texas on March 2, 2009 at 5:40 p.m. #193
(Obviously** haha sorry but obvioualy is just to funny of a typo)
Posted by pony on March 3, 2009 at 5:58 a.m. #194
I did read carefully... you, no offense, just don't make much sense.
You confidently pulled out a tier list adding the console characters with no reasoning behind it, proclaimed most characters could be in 2 tiers, put Dan at the bottom because "he's Dan" and you've seemingly put Seth at the top because he is the token boss of the game not taking into considering all his moves were nerfed and he has the lowest damage/stun in the game by far making him a complete risk to use.
Unless of course the entire of the above was e-sarcasm and I just didn't get the joke...
Training mode is all well and good for working out what's good or not but that's only half the puzzle, online play should never ever be taken into consideration - especially when the online for this game uses traditional lag rather than rollback methods (booo!).
All i'm saying is there is no need to rush putting out a console tier list, we need to chill, enjoy the game and then come back when every match-up has been worked out.
If it turns out Seth does become S class, i'll be the first to call myself an idiot and admit I was wrong. :)
Posted by Voice of Texas on March 3, 2009 at 8:29 a.m. #195
Fair enough.
I know that Seth is nerfed, but you can seriously just spam him like Zangief.
Posted by JJ1986 on March 3, 2009 at 6:46 p.m. #196
Have any of you guys seen the tier list from the offical street fighter 4 strategy guide?
Posted by Some 1 on March 3, 2009 at 11:30 p.m. #197
This list fails and anyone that agrees with it fails. Oh and Gamefaqs sucks.
Posted by Havok on March 4, 2009 at 4 a.m. #198
There's a new tier list floating around:
S +
Sagat, Viper, Gouki, Zangief
S
Ryu, Bison, Rufus, Blanka
A
Chun li, Vega, Ken, Dalshim, Abel, Honda, Fuerte
B
Balrog, Guile
Balrog, Vega, and Bison are referring to their Japanese names (i.e. Balrog = Claw).
Posted by Dooane on March 4, 2009 at 11:07 a.m. #199
I'm glad that Balrog>Claw moved up. I was really pissed looking at the list at the top lol
Posted by kmase on March 4, 2009 at 7:42 p.m. #200
I'm new to Street Fighter and was hoping to get an explanation as to why guys are referring to Sagat and a couple of others as a "spam" fighter.
Posted by Soultaker on March 4, 2009 at 8:49 p.m. #201
Glad that M. Bison is up there...I though he was going to go low X.x
Posted by Mplatypus on March 6, 2009 at 7:22 p.m. #202
I hear a lot of people making comments about how cheesy they think zangief is and against some opponents he can be for sure, spamming might win against players with no skill but against someone who knows how to play they will win everytime. Dont throw zangief into a cheesy group because some people abuse his easier moves, would you call someone shooting hadoukens all day cheesy?
Posted by glublubb on March 7, 2009 at 12:08 a.m. #203
wtf they did nerf vefa with less than 300 dmg ulra
Posted by glublubb on March 7, 2009 at 12:19 a.m. #204
and secondly the fact that akuma can ex omfg he can finally ex makes me think he should the least be A list 4 now seth should be tween A n B and guile hes so horrible nao NO SUPER SONIC BOOM UGH disgusting u can barely chain sh!t with him anymore chun li still awesome but she got nerfed down compared to 3strike and all the shoto f@gs whining give it up ur all noobs nobody really plays with ken akuma ryu anymore and if u wanna whine proveme wrong ........ps3 tag pchampoo see you WHEN I GET PAID shoto f@gs
Posted by master of the hado on March 7, 2009 at 4:32 a.m. #205
anybody no wen championship mode comes out??
Posted by Myko on March 7, 2009 at 4:20 p.m. #206
my flipping main is vega...well guess that means im gonna work extra hard =_=
Posted by MEN4CE on March 8, 2009 at 5:42 a.m. #207
WHAT are u guys missing? viper cannot compete against blanka evenly at all. and many others for that fact. blanka shud be higher hes way too unpredictable
Posted by Azuro on March 8, 2009 at 2:28 p.m. #208
Voice of Texas: Why...do you have a SPAM tier? It's possible to spam with every single character in the game... =_=
Posted by Green soldier on March 9, 2009 at 12:57 a.m. #209
Hey guys! I was playing sf4 for a good while here with my ps3 and after a while of LOSING AGAINST INHUMAN CAMMY COMPUTER IN TIME TRAIL AND SURVIVAL!!!!!,I noticed that the computers react soooo f*****g fast, but there not that smart. So I started to look for the best charcter to complete the game faster.OK,what I did is that I went to versus mode and I seted the computers level to the max level which is Hardest(INHUMAN) and i selected cpu vs cpu.Before i did this was that i got my ass kick so badly by cammy, so i selected cammy the first one and then sagat.sagat go his ass kicked so badly!!:)Then i tried all the characters and CAMMY WON ALL THE F*****G TIME!!! NO WONDER I GOT MY ASS KICKED SO BAD!!!:)Yup cammy has a chance of being god tier in the homeconsole version.If you dont beleave me then try it your selfs. CAMMY FOR GOD F*****g ASS KIKCING SEXY OVERWHELMING TIER!!!!!!!!!!:)(:
Posted by XxLetEmBurnxX on March 9, 2009 at 8:58 a.m. #210
d00d,i have been crushing Sagat online...no offense.
Posted by XxLetEmBurnxX on March 9, 2009 at 9:01 a.m. #211
and blanka is very predictable...especialy if you play a lot of good guys.
Posted by Voice of Texas on March 9, 2009 at 10:50 a.m. #212
SPAM tier means an attack that is abusive that no one can get out of. e.g. Spinning Lariat hit them once, then at their recover hit them again. If done correctly they won't block, and their for have an infinite spam attack.
As for spamming hadokens, like that ever works.
Posted by HNIC0813 on March 9, 2009 at 11:30 a.m. #213
What about Sakura? This list is fake...
Posted by 808 on March 9, 2009 at 8:05 p.m. #214
"d00d,i have been crushing Sagat online...no offense."
u must have faced noob sagats that think cause hes high tier, they will win. i face them all the time
Posted by Thamanator on March 10, 2009 at 9:22 a.m. #215
Yeah, Ken and Sagat are turning into the Online SFIV players version of HDRemix Akuma. If you suck at the game, then you use one of those two and hope that it will make an artificial handicap to the fight. IT DOESN'T! LOL My win percentage against Sagat and Ken online is just nasty. There are so few good players that use them. I think I have seen maybe 3 between both characters. One Great Ken player and two great Sagats.
Posted by Voice of Texas on March 10, 2009 at 10:52 a.m. #216
To HNIC0813 the two Tier list up there are the SFIV Arcade Tier List, the only Console one is in the Strategy guide.
Read carefully bro.
Posted by Guds Skyfall on March 10, 2009 at 3:34 p.m. #217
"Yeah, Ken and Sagat are turning into the Online SFIV players version of HDRemix Akuma. If you suck at the game, then you use one of those two and hope that it will make an artificial handicap to the fight. IT DOESN'T! LOL My win percentage against Sagat and Ken online is just nasty. There are so few good players that use them. I think I have seen maybe 3 between both characters. One Great Ken player and two great Sagats."
LMFAO - my win ratio with Akuma in HD Remix is 650-50. My point is that not only noobs use him.
Posted by DDAANNN!! on March 10, 2009 at 8:56 p.m. #218
What's this?? NO Dan? This chart is worthless.
Posted by Proto Cloud on March 10, 2009 at 9:48 p.m. #219
Lulz at everyone whining about the tier list. This is the best balanced fighter out without a revision. People should be thankful at the careful balance Capcom made instead of whining and blaming your losses on character tiers.
If you can't deal with it as it stands, you can wait for the next version or don't play at all.
Posted by Azuro on March 11, 2009 at 3:01 a.m. #220
"SPAM tier means an attack that is abusive that no one can get out of. e.g. Spinning Lariat hit them once, then at their recover hit them again. If done correctly they won't block, and their for have an infinite spam attack."
Well, then that "lariat trap" must not be spam tier, since the high-level Japanese AND American players cannot "abuse" it.
There are no traps in SFIV that are impossible to get out of...
Posted by lol on March 11, 2009 at 6:47 a.m. #221
akuma should beat the top
Posted by Voice of Texas on March 11, 2009 at 10:49 a.m. #222
Thats because good legit players don't abuse it, duh.
Also if you escape Lariat they, just abuse grab in corner or that green glove. Case closed STFU.
Posted by Splack G on March 11, 2009 at 5:43 p.m. #223
No way in hell is Fuerte vs. Vega a 5-5 match. Vega's dodge and focus attack usage totally negates his cross up options and pretty much everything. that should be like a fricken 8-2 lol. hell 10-0.
boy i can't wait to see this thing updated. Especially with all this talk about Viper being up with Sagat.
Posted by Mr@ on March 11, 2009 at 7:35 p.m. #224
Ken should be in the red area tier list at least,i'm still waiting for a console version tier list
Posted by ove on March 12, 2009 at 7:31 p.m. #225
Anybody know if there is a newer tier list or when a new tier list will be released?
In the list above I'm missing the "new" characters (sakura, cammy, gouken etc) and since I play on xbox and have read on this site that there should be some updates to game on the console version I would like to have a "console tier list".
Posted by DoloTwenty on March 12, 2009 at 7:39 p.m. #226
I think everyone needs to realize that this tier list is based on tournament level play. Regardless of how great everyone says they are, tournament level players make up a very small fraction of the SF community.
A novice tier list would be much different. For example, in the hands of newbies, Ken owns Ryu. Once a Ryu player learns to bait Ken into trying his ultra as a reversal, blocks it, and counters with a Metsu Hadoken while Ken is in the air, or learns to juggle quickly upon hit trading, the list starts heading towards its final destination (keep in mind that if Ken uses his ultra for anything other than melee striking, it does not hit for its full damage).
I've played over 200 matches as Ryu, and I've only been matched up against other Ryus 5 times. I must have fought over 40 Kens, though, and after I became more skilled Ken went from difficult to relatively easy to beat, at least at the semi-intermediate skill level. I have a 70% win percentage so I am not just blowing smoke.
For the vast majority of players, this tier list is not quite applicable. Also, if you're playing a console version with ANYTHING other than an arcade stick, this list is pointless for you IMO. So many moves/combos are virtually impossible with a controller (6-button fight pad included).
Posted by Crimten on March 12, 2009 at 7:44 p.m. #227
Ken and Akuma are overused, in my experience. I win over 80% of my matches against Ken, and literally 100% (so far) against Akuma, who is often selected by players whose strategy relies simply on executing special moves (OMG AKUMA has so many SPECMOVES OMGOSH L33T PWNAGE!!!). Also, all of the players I have fought who disconnect to avoid a loss were playing as Ken, and three of those times the person disconnected as soon as I blocked his ultra and executed my own ROFL!
Posted by benjibean on March 13, 2009 at 1:05 p.m. #228
im a noob playing as akuma and its not easy to win at all, he takes loads of damage and his ultra is easily avoided. Plus i cant get a fight stick (who wants to pay 400£ off ebay!). Online iv mostly been seeing people playing as Ken @ low levels, but as a i gradually get better and i think as most people get better there is starting to be more variety, today i played Abel, Blanka and even a Gen!. Is annoying when people just spam kens srk but hey you got to practice t get results! this game is awesome! my mate from work has been playing as fei long and taking me apart. He seems alot stronger than when we played super turbo.
Posted by Dntknow on March 13, 2009 at 6:30 p.m. #229
The console tier list is in the strategy guide and it is the same exact thing except dan is lower than vega. The new characters are in order Fei long is an A, Akuma,Gouken,sakura,rose,and seth are B, Gen C, Cammy D. and again Dan F
Posted by LongJoy on March 13, 2009 at 10:19 p.m. #230
Hey guys..
Holland here..
been playing the game for like 3 weeks now...
I simply don't like it..
Maybe it's because I don't have the skills like many of you do have...perhaps it's because I'm playing a controller instaad of my beloved arcadestick...(Which I still don't have...)
Overall I do play the game..(hey I paid for it...) but you have to be really concentrated to perform the moves you sometimes encounter online or see on Youtube..
A lot of times the action goes way toooo fast so you never knew what hit you..
haha
Also I'm getting very frustrated about the Ken's/Ryu's/Akuma's you only see online...
Mostly they are noobs but in case you pick a character who can't shoot a fireball or perform a uppercut you clearly are at a disadvantage.
One of the other things I also have a problem with is the throwing...
Forgive me if I'm wrong but the way I see it...A (very) skilled player doesn't need a throwing-move to finish off the other player...You have a moveset and probably can inflict a lot of bad a$$ damage...instead...people throw you the moment they are in range..
Okay..there are a few characters, like Abel, El Fuerte and especially Zangief (hate that b***h) who have throwing moves, which are part of there moveset but all the other times I just wanna throw my controller against the wall...
Anyway....I'd have no problem facing a few of you guys here....
Need to work on my skills cuz compared to you guys...I'm a ultra n00b.
My nickname on Xbox live is LongJoy1980
Posted by shoduken on March 13, 2009 at 10:39 p.m. #231
I hate playing those hidden characters as they aren't playable in arcade version. Gouken and Akuma are strong when I play against them.
Posted by Dimebag Jimmy on March 14, 2009 at 12:19 p.m. #232
I only had the chance to play SF4 for 1 day before i went on a 5 week vacation so still havent had a good chance to play.
I was dissapointed with Gief as he seemed way too easy to use! Ive used Gief for years and was pretty damn good with him on SF2 HD remix etc, whilst my bro was a scrub at the game in general......lets just say he was kicking butt with Gief on SF4 by randomly spinning the xbox controller stick round pulling off SPD's etc and 720 ultras, even SPD'd my friend 7-8 times in a match, even kicked butt with sagat.
Is it easier to perform special moves on SF4 to help noobs or something?
Posted by wo on March 14, 2009 at 3:24 p.m. #233
@Dimebag Jimmy
Yes the timings to do the moves are far more forgiving.
Posted by LongJoy on March 14, 2009 at 3:24 p.m. #234
yeah...
I think it does...
before SF4 came out a lot of people were complaining about the d pad for the 360..
That it was impossible to do SRK or something like that...
Even i was a bit skeptical about it but I have to say....
I perform moves far better with a 360 controller than a ps3..
Zangief is one of those characters where you only have to spin the stick to perform a throwing move....and since his special throwing move is much faster than the usual throw...well..let's just say I ain't a big fan of Zangief..
*I hope people understand what I'm saying since my english isn't that good,,hehe*
Posted by mask and claw on March 14, 2009 at 11:28 p.m. #235
sagat may be broken in the hands of a good player, but almost every time i run into one, i win. with vega, the lowest tier, hes my main. it seems like people just pick sagat because of the tier they dont really know what theyre doing
Posted by omkarthebobsledder on March 15, 2009 at 1:11 a.m. #236
GUILE AND SAGAT 4EVER!!!
Posted by Donjohnni on March 15, 2009 at 11:59 a.m. #237
I'm no SF4 master by a long shot, but I just refuse to believe that Ryu could possibly be better than Akuma. Akuma has way more moves and does monstrous damage. He's so hard to master. Is Ryu really better than Akuma??????
Posted by Duy123 on March 15, 2009 at 7:11 p.m. #238
Replying to DoloTwenty #227
Something where your wrong is I have a 6-button fightpad for the PS3 and I prefer that than the arcade stick. I've completed all the Hard Trials for the players that I want to learn. I'm curious as to what combos and/or manuevers you say I CAN'T do with a fightpad?
Posted by Origin on March 15, 2009 at 7:36 p.m. #239
Yes he is ... but not by much........ and i love akuma ... hes just takes hits like a B***H!.
Posted by Street Fighter HNIC on March 16, 2009 at 9:59 a.m. #240
Where is Sakura on the tier list?
Posted by Street Fighter HNIC on March 16, 2009 at 10:10 a.m. #241
Where is Sakura and Rose in the tier list?
Posted by 3421 on March 16, 2009 at 11:59 a.m. #242
You guys don't know whats up! DAN IS NUMBER ONE! faaathheeeeeerrrrrr!
Posted by Voice of Texas on March 16, 2009 at 12:37 p.m. #243
For the last time... this is THE ARACDE VERSION JAPANESE TIER LIST not American Console version.
Seriously learn to read.
Posted by Dan on March 17, 2009 at 5:14 a.m. #244
Faaaaaatheeeer! I looooooost.
Posted by Guile's Coach on March 17, 2009 at 5:26 p.m. #245
We'll show them Guile! We'll show them all! T___T
Posted by ove on March 17, 2009 at 5:51 p.m. #246
Thanks "Dntknow" for the answere! So then Akuma has advanced one class in the console version compared to the arcade? Further it surprises me that Fei Long is class A along with Sagat! :-O What makes him so good?! And it also surprises me that Cammy is as low as class D.. Well then, if i got i right the console tier should look like the following:
CLASS A
Sagat
Fei Long
CLASS B
Ryu
Zangief
Akuma
Gouken
Sakura
Rose
Seth
CLASS C
Balrog
M. Bioson
Chun-Li
Blanka
Rufus
Gen
CLASS D
C. Viper
Ken
Dhalsim
Abel
Cammy
CLASS E
Guile
E. Honda
CLASS F
El Fuerte
Vega
Dan
Posted by tony_tiger87 on March 17, 2009 at 9:03 p.m. #247
zangief is wicked..strong moves and tough..can take hits, doesnt lose much life. although play him against akuma with his double air fire-ball n its hard.
blanka is anuva that is quite tricky 2 play against as he can give a beating and is unpredictable.
Vega wound definetly b higher on my list as even tho i cant use him, he is fast esp with that super fast EX-flying claw which is too fast to counter.
Guile is my character coz his defensive-counter game is superb and his somersault gets u in the air or on the ground,n takes some life.
Ive always prefered ryu over ken, bison is fast, agile and gives a beating, akuma has lots of moves but loses alotta life.
All characters av their strengths n weaknesses. Seth aint great as his attacks dont take much life n he can get a beating.
Sagat is good though and is up there as his moves take life.
Top 6 is Sagat, Ryu, Bison, Ken, Akuma, Zangief.
Posted by Strider on March 18, 2009 at 9:44 a.m. #248
...where the hell are Cammy and Sakura?
Posted by Jake on March 18, 2009 at 12:54 p.m. #249
This tier list is all F'd up Blanka should definitely be top, vega should definitely be lowest. I'd say Dhalsim should be lowest as I've never seen a Dhalsim player above 2000bp. Even the good ones. Me I like where gen is because it makes me feel that I'm super good with him. Rose should be class c if not d, bison should be b,cammy should be B or A, Sagat should be A, and Fei long as A? No way B tops.And Dan is as good as Sakura.
Posted by Mosy on March 19, 2009 at 10:54 a.m. #250
Haha no offence but people complaining about sagat being way too strong and need some nerfing, i just don't think theres a need for that
From my opinion sf 4 is a very well balance game if you notice sagat got quite slow movements/Dash and also he doesnt have a good cross up or mind games setup compared to the rest of characters..
althought sagat is really good at camping and dealgreat amount of damage i feel that its just alright with it and doesn't need any nerfing
i mean seriously if your good at the game its not about the character its about how you play and how you use your character, mind games, your reaction thats all it counts not complaining about characters being way too strong..
If you search videos of sf 4 on youtube there are lots of people using sagat in japan but it not all the sagat won the matchups, some even lost quite badly.
a good example will be c.viper and akuma both of them take in great amount of damage but when you browse through the videos you will see them fighting almost evenly with saagt and even able to beat sagat handsdown in some matches so people its all about the player not the character..if you guys got so much to complain why don't do some homework find ways to defeat your enemy by watching pros play
and thats how i improve XD Have fun guys XD
Posted by Lamar on March 19, 2009 at 8:11 p.m. #251
I still wonder to this very day what Capcom was thinking... This game is more than just unbalanced... Plus, people do the same bull over and over again online. Zangief takes almost ALL your health away with his special which is also not blockable. This game is probably a DISGRACE to fighting games.
Posted by Kurdijef on March 20, 2009 at 2:59 a.m. #252
Lamar, what are you talking about? SF4 is one of the most balanced fighting games ever made, just look at those matchups, most are 6-4 and the worst are 7-2. Whereas in other games it could be even 9-1 against several characters. Marvel VS Capcom 2, often praised for its greatness has only like 4-6 characters (out of 56) that are played on high level.
It's not Capcom's fault how people play it online and if you can't adapt to people spamming the same move then the fault is in YOU. Zangief's throw is not invincible, only unblockable. He can't grab you from the other side of the screen. Just play safe and don't get too close. Stop blaming the game for your own shortcomings and at least check how it really is before embarrassing yourself.
Posted by Mosy on March 20, 2009 at 3:41 a.m. #253
LOL lamar if you say sf 4 is a disgrace to all games than your one player that has no paitences at all, sf 4 is all about patiences and the one with a clam mind and tons of paitences usaully stands out and don't blame on Zangief's grabs.
Zangief has been like this from the very first sf and his still the same his grabs are unblockable and thats normal to all fighting games.
Take King Of Figther as an example they also have characters that have unblockable moves not only grabs but normals moves, so seriously if your saying sf 4 is a DISGRACE than i think you are the player that is a disgrace cause you cant beat your opponent and go whinning about how smelly that guy is go do your homework on the game :D
Posted by benjibean on March 20, 2009 at 6:22 a.m. #254
i think sf4 is freaking awesome! way better for new players to get into but also very hard to master, great online. best mix of characters, apart from seth. Its my favourite street fighter game.
Posted by benjibean on March 20, 2009 at 6:27 a.m. #255
i would just like to add that the worst thing about sf4 is that the fightsticks and pads are sold out or unavailable! wtf! in the uk i cant find em any where part from ebay or play trade! when will madcatz sort this out. I have never played with a stick but im dying to try as everyone says its a big improvement over the 360 d-pad.
Posted by ElCamino on March 20, 2009 at 1:19 p.m. #256
Great game but has some issues. I'd kill to have Capcom make the character select screen secret so you can;t see who your opponent has chosen until you've both locked in. It drives me crazy watching people wait it out, hoping that their enemy will pick first so they can counter pick.
Posted by JerseyFame on March 20, 2009 at 7:15 p.m. #257
Guile is king.
Using him offensively is the trick. Every one turtles with guile. Once u realize that crossing him up leaves him open the turtle strategy is out of the window.
I have an uber aggressive guile who makes use of air throws and standing medium kick. Almost impossible to beat him to the punch when you tick into your rolling sobat which is standing medium kick.
Then you must factor in that ex sonic boom is the fastest projectile in the game...even faster than tiger shot.
If capcom would have made guiles super move easier to do, he would be technically unattackable...but of course the input for his double flash is so odd that its rare to pull it out when you REALLY, REALLY need it. I find that I pull this move out when I comfortably ahead and relaxed.
Be a man. Play Guile offensively or just be a trutling scrub like the shoto clones who try to use guile every now and then.
If you doubt my tactics try me and my 601 wins and absolute perfection title.
Jerseyfame on xbox live.
again...Guile used offensively is king.
p.s. why is that I only face ken and ryu's in ranked matches?
Posted by lolguile on March 21, 2009 at 8:54 a.m. #258
Hey buddy go take your uber guile to a srs tourney then show evryone hes king lulz. im sure your perfection title will help intimidate
Posted by jerseyfame on March 21, 2009 at 10:51 a.m. #259
these tourneys are filled with projectile cowards learn the hard trials and how important hand to hand combat is. but to do that u would have to stop throwing hadoukens,
u can tell a shotokan clone by how sensitive they get when u talk about guile...they hate guile.
chump
Posted by Oghowie on March 21, 2009 at 11:13 a.m. #260
Wow, only a true scrub would complain about people throwing hadokens. Hilarious.
Posted by x Who Is Alpha on March 21, 2009 at 11:21 a.m. #261
Jerseryfame is right about one thing, an offensive guile is pretty good, especially in the corner with his forward+MP. I use Guile and Vega all the time, and I got around... 4300 BP (cant really get past that x.x I need to work on countering peoples grab play) but ya Guile is a beast at times, but only offensively. A turtling Guile can be broken pretty quickly.
Vega is low tier for a reason, I find it pretty hard to break out of very aggressive players since even his scarlet terror isnt really a reliable move at times. Being crossed over when your vega leaves you pretty helpless unless you've found a way around it with focus dash which I have but it still doesnt put you at enough distance away from your opponent to really keep the pressure off. Vega with enough practice can be very very effective so long as your good at setting your opponents up for traps.
The tier list seems pretty good to me, seems right on showing how difficult it is to beat certain characters with your character. The tier list is not to show which character is guranteed to beat someone but just to show which character is in a uphill battle against the other and which characters are overall an easy set up to win. Im pretty sure that if you've played often that you've realized the reason why the top tier characters are top tier. Easy damage, effective combos, and generally can chain their ultra fairly easily with the exception of zangief which is an unblockable anyway lol
Im not the best or anything, but im working my ass off to get to be one of the best. If you ever want to face me in a player match my gamertag is x Who Is Alpha
Posted by Jerseyfame on March 21, 2009 at 11:35 a.m. #262
I make a living off of mashing hadouken scrubs. All you have to do is relax. And you find out their skills are hollow. Just like Oghowies skills.
He'd be beaten before I even got warmed up.
Posted by ohmz777 on March 22, 2009 at 2:53 p.m. #263
When do the good players show up at chinatown fair? Me and my boy went there on a monday and whooped everyones ass
Posted by Dntknow on March 22, 2009 at 4:22 p.m. #264
hey "ove" no prob for the help and your list is a little off and that my fault I could of formated it better, but based of the strategy guide it goes like this.
Tier S:
Sagat
Tier A:
Zangief
Ryu
Fei Long
Balrog
M.Bison
Blanka
Tier B:
Rufus
Akuma
Seth
Chun Li
Gouken
Rose
Ken
Sakura
Tier C:
El Fuerte
Gen
Able
Dhalsim
Guile
C.viper
Tier D:
Cammy
E.honda
Vega
Tier F:
Dan
This can be found on page 21 of the strategy guide in the up right corner.
Posted by paich on March 22, 2009 at 6:28 p.m. #265
Having bought a copy of the strategy guide, I can wholeheartedly recommend it - really helpful for novices (like myself!)and contains in-depth info for more serious players too, such as full frame data on every character.
I'm surprised by how few Sagats/Zangiefs I've encountered online so far. Been playing as Gouken mainly myself - great counter-attacker!
Send a friend request if you fancy a few practice bouts. Xbox live gamertag - paich
Posted by Kenny1213 on March 23, 2009 at 7:24 a.m. #266
The tier list in the prima guide is WAYYY off, so don't base any decisions on it.
Posted by jerseyfame on March 23, 2009 at 10:40 a.m. #267
Guile is superior to almost every name above him when played properly.
When played shotokan style...i.e. Spamming sonic booms, turtling and waiting to flash kick...he is worthy of a tier c
when played aggressively he is equal to strength and priority to Sagat.
Fact.
Posted by olaf on March 23, 2009 at 10:42 a.m. #268
the guide does not include frame data for every character - only the arcade characters.
i was so pissed.
Posted by OGHowie on March 23, 2009 at 11:54 a.m. #269
@ Jersey
Now you're saying Guile is equal in strength and priority to Sagat? lol
I want what you're smoking bro.
Posted by Dimebag_Jimmy on March 23, 2009 at 5:55 p.m. #270
In regard to Guile comments:
Im going by SF2 HD remix xbox online (on extended vacation but SF4 here i come in 1 week time)...........in 1300 ranked matches I didnt play a single offensive guile, all were turtles and used the same tactics.
Basic one was walking after a jab sonic boom, the either A: suplex or B: standing fierce kick :D
Green Fist into SPD took care of most of them ;)
Not a fan of guile, and im sure there are many turtlers on SF4 online!
Posted by Drewby on March 23, 2009 at 9:11 p.m. #271
Prima's strat guide sucks ass. They got some random ass guy to write it. They had a plethora of good talent to possibly do it justice like how the 3s guide was. Dan is FAR from bottom.
Posted by Jerseyfame on March 23, 2009 at 9:45 p.m. #272
Sagat is soft, once you ring his bell with a 4 hit or 5 hit...he cowers in the corner and spams. He then tries desperately to set up his tiger uppercut super move....
There is a "saw that coming" title for a reason.
I punch Sagat in the face like Ken and Ryu....they arent gods...just men.
Posted by pEzz on March 24, 2009 at 12:32 a.m. #273
@jerseyfame
First off, you've apparently been playing scrubby Sagat players, good players don't get desperate.
And @ your Guile comment:
A good Guile player may be able to beat an okay Sagat player. But if you take two equally skilled professional players, chances are Sagat would probably win(unless your Guile is ridiculously crazy like Gilley's).
Not only does Sagat have a lot more options where he can play either rushdown style or defensively. Also Sagat has LOADS of ways to combo into an ultra effectively, Guile has very little. I've played some VERY good aggressive Guile players don't get me wrong. But thing is, it is hard for Guile to have as much dominance in a match as Sagat does.
Sagat is also very easy to pick up, all his combos, links and setups are very easy and simple to do, where as Guile is a lot harder to learn.
But then again, this game is pretty balanced compared to other games like 3s. As long as some gets really good with a character they can beat pretty much any other character.
Posted by Jerseyfame on March 24, 2009 at 6:04 a.m. #274
Gilley's Guile can beat ANYONE.
You dont need GIlley's guile to beat a very good Sagat.
You need self awareness. Most of the time you get spammed with tiger shouts and lose 30% of your life energy before you even realize your in an infinite loop and Sagat is taking advantage of you.
Block effectively and open a can of whoop as by chainning into Guiles very effect and relatively short combos.
Sagat is easy to abuse, but you can only abuse rookies. Seasoned players see through this and take no unnecessary damage.
Guile takes hits well, Sagat takes hits moderately.
We can have our own tier battle, best out of 10. I bet after we're done Gilley wont be the only Guile player you respect.
Shotokan clones arent as tough as they seem.
Guile is twice as tough as he seems.
Posted by :D on March 24, 2009 at 2:35 p.m. #275
Japanese haven't caught onto the fact of El Fuerte's infinite combo loop. If they had, he'd be at least a couple of places up.
Most characters are definitely playable, even against Sagat. Sagat may be slightly easier to play but a skilled C.Viper, Dhalsim or E.Honda can beat them.
People focus too much on tiers. Most are 4-6, 5-5 with 7-3 being the worse. Yes Vega (Claw) can be hard to master but is still playable. Sagat is easier to play but I've seen many high level Sagats get beat by C.Viper, E.Honda and Dhalsim.
Posted by sync on March 24, 2009 at 3:12 p.m. #276
It's tiger SHOTS...not shouts =P
Posted by Seth on March 24, 2009 at 10:07 p.m. #277
SETH OWNS!!!!!!!!! chances of getting hit when played even remotely good = none. I have never seen so many perfects while i was using sagat, seth gets perfects almost on a daily basis, and can dwindle anyone's health bar to 10% before taking his first hit.
Posted by Jerseyfame on March 25, 2009 at 9:31 a.m. #278
Ill crush Seths ribcage with an ex sonic boom and he will have 75% health left.
He takes hits like a newborn baby.
I wont fall for any of his "magic"...the way to beat cheese is to be a knife and cut it.
Flash kick.
Posted by Voradors on March 26, 2009 at 8:55 a.m. #279
So....will these teirs stay the same for the console release?
Posted by gen11393 on March 27, 2009 at 7:29 p.m. #280
why is guile ranked so low???
Posted by Kell Lee on March 27, 2009 at 10:11 p.m. #281
Vega got jobbed... he has no overhead attacks, his scarlet terror can't hit crouching opponents... and his supers involve jumping to walls in a direction that you can't control. He can take as much damage as Ryu, but he hits like Sakura. Since he has very little combo potential he can't trade with anyone as far as attacking is concerned. Due to the lack of subsystems in the game like parrying or Airgaurd he can't fight anyone in the air. If he jumps he's dead. He can't combo into his ultra or his supers moves. Yeah. Capcom let me down. This game is a just a flawed SF2 with better graphics.
Posted by Zerodemise on March 27, 2009 at 11:35 p.m. #282
I'll have you know that Vega can easily destroy anyone in the air. FYI: Vega has one of the highest priority when doing an aerial grab. Want to prove me wrong? Fight me!
PS3 Gamertag: Kuroikiba13
Posted by DR Jam on March 28, 2009 at 12:31 a.m. #283
*****************************************HELP NEEDED**************************************************
Can anyone give me a few tips on how to overcome Bison's flying attacks (head stomp, and somersault)?
The matches I lose against Bison it's because of exploitation of the Head Press (I don't mind, because I can't blame other users if that's the only way they can win with Bison)
I use Guile a lot, but his flash kick has more often than not less priority than the head press.
So I resorted to Abel, I do his body roll to evade them, and try to catch Bison on the ground.
Is there a move in the game counters his Head Press extremely well? And what is the best characters to match against Bison? (theoretically speaking, at least)
Posted by x Who Is Alpha on March 28, 2009 at 8:57 p.m. #284
@ DR Jam
The secret to beating the headpress is... im not joking either.... its..... stepping back lol im not joking at all, it'll miss if you take two steps back then you can immediately grab or punish them in a different way.
Posted by td82394 on March 29, 2009 at 11:51 a.m. #285
Where's Gouken?
Posted by J.B on March 29, 2009 at 2:33 p.m. #286
Hmmmm... I always thought Viper was higher than that... >_>
Posted by Panda on March 31, 2009 at 10:40 a.m. #287
@Kell Lee:"This game is a just a flawed SF2 with better graphics."
SF2 is widely regarded as the best, and most balanced Fighter of all time. You just said SF4 is as flawed as something that's considered darn near perfect.
Posted by Joe on March 31, 2009 at 12:39 p.m. #288
I hate the fact that people pull the connection when they are going to lose. That is crap. People do that to me all the time. Also, if the character isn't a throwing class character....throwing is cheap.
Posted by Laurence on March 31, 2009 at 1:15 p.m. #289
wtf, where's fei?
Posted by Frenzied Cyclone on March 31, 2009 at 8:25 p.m. #290
@Laurence: if you learned to read, that's the arcade tier list.
Posted by Street Fighter on April 2, 2009 at 9:12 a.m. #291
Do these tiers take into account that several characters are named differently in Japan?
U.S. Bison = Japan Vega
U.S. Vega = Japan Balrog
U.S. Balrog = Japan Bison
Posted by SSJ3X on April 3, 2009 at 8:01 p.m. #292
Yes, they do, though normally to ensure we know who we're talking about, we just classify them as Dictator, Boxer, and Claw. Dictator and Boxer are the two characters in the game that are up in ranking, where Claw is at the bottom.
Posted by ChickofALLEVILZ on April 7, 2009 at 5:04 p.m. #293
im sad.... Ken is even under medium tier...stupid Ryu...
Posted by apex27 on April 8, 2009 at 7:46 a.m. #294
Tier list is not a bible, but a guideline made from someone's opinion of the characters. IMO, my list would be different as I seem to have more trouble against some characters than others, yet VS Sagat I generally do well. I have more trouble with a well played Akuma or Ken than Sagat. I attribute that to my knowledge of Sagat that gives me a better understanding of how to defend against him.
I agree with those that say we should thank Capcom because it is definitely the most balanced fighter I've ever come across. I love the game no matter who I play against, how many times they throw me or fire ball me... I say its another reason to learn how to overcome.
Posted by J on April 9, 2009 at 3:48 p.m. #295
IMO
S+
Sagat
Viper
Ryu
Zangief
Akuma
S
Blanka,
Rufus
Boxer
A
Everybody else that isn't in B
B
Vega
C
Dan
Posted by Voice of Texas on April 14, 2009 at 10:58 a.m. #296
This is an Arcade tier list for the last time.
Also for every idiot out there. Vega isn't low, Dan doesn't suck, Dhalism is terrible, Akuma is weak regarding Health as is Seth, Cammy is good but not amazing, Sakura is GREAT but has a few flaws. El Fuerte and Abel are also good.
Want to know how I know, I'm undefeated in ranked. I play many people, they agree when we discuss during a match, want to prove me wrong. Get ranked scrubs.
Posted by teigen on April 14, 2009 at 2:37 p.m. #297
^^^
Big whoop. You can beat scrubs on ranked, so you MUST be right.
And you think Dhalsim is bad. You are obviously SO educated. Stop acting like you are so high and mighty because you can beat the terrible people online.
Posted by Lame on April 15, 2009 at 5:07 p.m. #298
In the right hands every character has the potential to be great.
Posted by Voice of Texas on April 15, 2009 at 8:10 p.m. #299
I'm wrong Dhalsim is God tier.
Posted by CP2 on April 16, 2009 at 5:15 a.m. #300
No Cammy in this listing? I am appauled! I use Cammy and Ryu and I probably kick more but with Cammy than I do Ryu. Maybe because she is a different speed and a different look. I dunno...and I am sick of Sagat...period
Posted by CP2 on April 16, 2009 at 5:18 a.m. #301
Hold on, there are more people missing from this list too. I guess they arent included on the arcade edition? I never played it...whoa is me.
Posted by azn fighter on April 19, 2009 at 10:34 a.m. #302
to whom it may concern: 2all sf4 playa if u are the one that like to pull the network b4 u lose the match...U R A NOOB....go back to the remix LOOSER
Posted by Brainsplitter on April 19, 2009 at 12:35 p.m. #303
this doesn't tell you the whole story though. i've seen Guile players beat monstrous Sagats and Dhalisms totally outclass Giefs...
Posted by 2b or not 2b on April 20, 2009 at 9:14 p.m. #304
Lol @ Sakura's new placing. It's a rofl.
Posted by tier shmier on April 20, 2009 at 9:50 p.m. #305
tier's change waaay too often...
besides... it doesnt seem like i lose due to tier.. but more of not knowing character matchups.
Posted by POkoroko on April 21, 2009 at 1:30 a.m. #306
I love men, especially Daigo.
Posted by Peffico on April 21, 2009 at 1:59 a.m. #307
WOw so dan and sakura are basically a joke im getting at here?
Posted by TWAKKIE on April 21, 2009 at 2:51 a.m. #308
If you guys had to choose for tourney reasons will it be Ryu or Balrog?
Posted by Kr0w93 on April 21, 2009 at 6:41 a.m. #309
LOL @ Panda! xD
Let's see.... from my experience not to mention it said this but tiers don't mean....*gasp* =O.... a goddamn thing!
I've lost to very few Sagats with my Fei Long online ^_^
I think the one that got me most was a fireball spam scrub. Kept mixing up high and low tiger shots and it really threw me off. Of course it's my fault for not knowing how to deal w/ it >.<'
Posted by Kr0w93 on April 21, 2009 at 6:42 a.m. #310
his GT was tharimrattler btw
Posted by anon on April 21, 2009 at 8:11 a.m. #311
You mean tharimrattler at the bottom right of this picture?
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_QnJCVJguxsE...
Posted by titeguy3 on April 21, 2009 at 8:46 a.m. #312
LOL @ anon's pic. What ever happened to online games taking counter-measures against pulling ranked matches?
Btw, as long as everyone is giving their two cents, I semi-agree with these tiers. I've never come across a Claw user who could beat me a round. And from my experience, the players I've usually got the most trouble with are Ryu, Zangief, Guile, Boxer, Blanka, and Dictator (in that order). A lot of people use Sagat because of his god-like properties, but my playing style pretty much guarantees a win as soon as a Sagat player throws two consecutive projectiles.
The only deviation I'd have to point out is that El Fuerte can be one of the best and cheapest characters in the game...if someone comes along with enough hand-eye coordination to actually use him optimally, that is.
Posted by lol@online on April 21, 2009 at 9:35 a.m. #313
2 months of console release and people can claim they're good from online matches.
what a joke
Posted by Oculus-Orbis on April 21, 2009 at 11:01 a.m. #314
"2 months of console release and people can claim they're good from online matches."
Are you suggesting that everyone playing online isn't good? Or that to believe you are good based on online matches is a falsehood? I for one, wish there were better players online. Since there are no arcades in my area(let alone a sf4 cab),
I only CAN play online. I know I'm good, but it's not because I win online, it's from training and methodology, and understanding MY characters(Dictator & Sim), regardless of "Tiers". I also believe people should learn to play as the characters they have trouble fighting, through this they can understand that char's strengths and weaknesses from an inside perspective
Posted by Merton on April 21, 2009 at 1:51 p.m. #315
Tiers mean rack all, play with who you want to play with and have fun.
Posted by Fritzl's locksmith on April 21, 2009 at 4:02 p.m. #316
Thanks for putting this up. I main Chun Li and M. Bison!
Posted by Dan on April 21, 2009 at 4:14 p.m. #317
I really don't understand how Dan is last.
Posted by Mr.Yawn on April 21, 2009 at 4:18 p.m. #318
wtf??? this list just changed again the top 3 were "ryu,ken,chun li" why the fvck did they change it again??kinda annoying.
Posted by :) on April 21, 2009 at 4:42 p.m. #319
I would love to see dan as top tier just to see everyones reactions. People will go crazy
Dan top tier
Posted by Catalyst on April 21, 2009 at 4:51 p.m. #320
@Mr. Yawn
The list wasn't sorted by rank before, which is why Ryu, Ken and Chun Li were at the top. It was updated a little bit ago to sort from best to worst. i.e. most number of wins in the last column.
Posted by Mr.Yawn on April 21, 2009 at 4:55 p.m. #321
ohh is that what it is,guess it makes sense,thx 4 the info Catalyst
Posted by ThatsRight,It'sMe on April 21, 2009 at 5 p.m. #322
LAWL if Dan was tweaked,he'd still would be at the bottom of the list,this list don't mean sh1t at the end of the day,cause we all know that you can beat anyone down with any character tier list or not,all strategy and how you play your game with the character you play with.Either way i'm still happy that my character is in the top 10 and a few others as well.
Posted by sleepyedgar on April 21, 2009 at 5:09 p.m. #323
the tier list DOES matter at the end of the day...
unless you play with noobs all day or maybe a genius that learned alot of new tactics against bad matchups
Posted by sleepyedgar on April 21, 2009 at 6 p.m. #324
LAWL:ZOMG!!!!!! I R KENZ SRK FIREEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Please explain why does the tier list "dont mean squat"?
and "tier lists is only for nublets" doesn't even make sense cuz they all suck and don't know the match-up
Posted by Jcool813 on April 21, 2009 at 6:49 p.m. #325
tiers are for queers just play the game.
Posted by neurosis on April 21, 2009 at 6:56 p.m. #326
>tiers are for queers
why does every discussion of tiers bring out people like this? seriously one of the dumbest anti-tier comments spammed every time tiers are mentioned.
Posted by Deuce on April 21, 2009 at 7:24 p.m. #327
i dont think Cammy losses to Bison. She can stuff his Air game with Air throws and her godly cannon spike. Bison is forced to a ground game where he can get very predictable
Cammy can also really stuff Chun-Li too. The health knock doesn't help chun much either since Cammy hits like a truck
Posted by 123456 on April 21, 2009 at 9:46 p.m. #328
the point of tier lists are to show indication on how well characters do against each other when play by two EQUALLY skilled people. The people who developed the tiers are PROFESSIONAL players who know what they are doing, not flowchart Kens
Guaranteed that if a pro plays Dan, he would probably beat a scrubby Sagat or a flowchart Ken.
Posted by MrWasabi on April 21, 2009 at 9:53 p.m. #329
Abel has an advantage on Vega (Claw)? Anyone want to explain that? I always have trouble against Claws who spam and mix-up the triangle jump.
Posted by i think the japanese teir is better on April 21, 2009 at 10:52 p.m. #330
Tier listing for 2009 — Japanese Arcade Release is more accurate in my opinion.
wtf with April 2009 Tier Rankings with Console Characters
i saw that m.bison vs guile is 4/10 and i knew this was a sick joke.
i was a guile player and i stop using him because he got one of the lowest pioritly in the game and i started to use m.bison instead. and im doing 100 times better with him than guile. m.bison Normal moves, special,super and ultra all beats guile normal,special,super and ultra so i dont get how he would lose to him. tell me. i dont get it.
now get this, some of m.bison normal would go through guile special moves so that is another advantage and guile ultra and super is the most hardest ultra in the game compare to just double half circle or charge back and forth ultra.
Posted by DevinAmir1 on April 21, 2009 at 11:04 p.m. #331
Why would it matter how hard it is to do Guile's super/ultra? These are professionals who do this, not newbies who cant do the moves consistently.
Posted by tenorchamp on April 22, 2009 at 12:30 a.m. #332
Hmmm still a little early on the list but oh well. As far as console characters go still need some time, as new strategies develop.
Posted by an0n on April 22, 2009 at 12:51 a.m. #333
i am terrible against bison unless i play as guile. i dont know why, but that's just how it is :p
Posted by Zeus on April 22, 2009 at 3:49 a.m. #334
PSN:ELite_Zeus , I Could care less about a tier list, Im looking for challengers FT5 that simple, send me a message and we fight. PS. Scrubs(Turtlers/Wall-Huggers) I have no love for you win 1 lose 1 were only having 1 fight, competent fighters FT5
Posted by Gospel_au on April 22, 2009 at 4:45 a.m. #335
The points difference between highest and lowest character is now 54. That's a bit too much, rather unbalanced.
Posted by they call me the bob on April 22, 2009 at 4:55 a.m. #336
the points difference between the highest and lowest "real" characters is now 40, though. Dan is not a serious characters and no one in their rightful mind will ever main Dan and become a high level player as he was never intended to be played that way.
I find it weird that Akuma, the character that I currently main, according to this chart is at a disadvantage against Cammy. if anyone could tell me why this is (I've never played a decent Cammy), then please do tell me. otherwise this list seems pretty accurate.
Posted by blahblah on April 22, 2009 at 5:18 a.m. #337
@they call me the bob
Cammy can so wreck Akuma... No Joke. Her Spiral Arrows easily go under his air fireballs. And fighting a Cammy with any EX is horrible for Akuma, bacause you cant spam Hadokens, and Akuma's low stamina doesnt help either.. Thats the way i see it.
Posted by KenDeep on April 22, 2009 at 7:06 a.m. #338
Man, they messed up Fei Longs Match Ups TOTALLY. Like, how to come that Fei Long has only an disadvantage of 4 to 6 against Sagat? How come he is at a disadvantage with rufus to 3 to 7?
Posted by rse on April 22, 2009 at 7:50 a.m. #339
How appropriate is it that Dan's tier color is brown? Brown for... you know.
Posted by Kanped on April 22, 2009 at 10 a.m. #340
Damn... I main Sakura with Cammy as an alt. I know they don't really mean very much because I'm not at the level where it'll really matters yet, but still, I don't like to be at a theoretical disadvantageright from the offest (and hit-priority is really important for me because I'm quite aggressive). I can use Zangief and Ryu quite well, so maybe I should put in more practice with those guys and use them more often.
Posted by ewgf-mishima-style on April 22, 2009 at 10 a.m. #341
I knew Long would not be higher than mid tier, but hes not even mid tier -.- And sagat is indeed f****in overpowered with his superior offensive and defensive oportunities. Tigershot spams and l.kick tigerkneespam connected to whatever that sagat player likes...alwasy have a hard time beating that guy...and he still has got 1100 stamina?...oh please :( fortunately I have a second main: Ryu
Posted by psycho ryu on April 22, 2009 at 12:50 p.m. #342
I guess the tier-tards once again claiming who's godly and who suks w/ their "all knowing wisdom".
Posted by . on April 22, 2009 at 2:20 p.m. #343
are there any high level Dan players out there?
Posted by Panda on April 22, 2009 at 2:48 p.m. #344
Dan at bottom? Rose NOT bottom? Gen? Seth?
No. Just NO. Dan doesn't have NEARLY that many 7-3 matches. Outside of balrog, blanka, and E. Honda, I don't think any actually exist.
Seth loses 3-7 to el fuerte? Lol.
Fei long has the best focus and best dash in the game, and he's low tier?
It's pretty clear that more tourney data will need to be compiled before the console characters find their correct place on the list.
Posted by Azuro on April 22, 2009 at 6:18 p.m. #345
Panda...Dan is pretty much perfectly placed. He has to be played rushdown because he has no distance game, and because his normals are too slow to keep pressure, given his block advantages...he sucks at that. His ONLY positive advantage is EX Gadouken...so I guess that would make it semi useful on block. Everything else goes for neutral or worse. He deserves that spot, IMO.
I agree with Rose not being close to bottom, though.
Jersey, Guile is low tier because once you get the lead, he can't do much to try and get it back, nor does he have a way to really even get the lead.
Posted by Bracket Man on April 23, 2009 at 3:37 a.m. #346
@ Panda... sure fei's focus attack is fast, as are his dashes. but what else does he have? every one of his specials causes him to commit, leaving him WIDE OPEN for punishment. If you opponent is fast enough they can punish you for blocked rekkas and such. He has to rely heavily on normals, and we all know SF4 is not a footsie-friendly game because of the annoying links and what-not. His command throw is brutal joke played on him by the game's designers, and his chicken wing not armor-breaking is almost criminal.
I'd say he's adequately placed.
Posted by Stop The Spam on April 23, 2009 at 5:23 a.m. #347
Hey LAWL shut up and stop spamming like a little bitch! Tiers are useful TO AN EXTENT! They do have an impact on the game weither you like it or not. I'm not saying people's character choices should be made based on a tier, but it does help figure things out. So shut the hell up and stop spamming you stupid little douchebag!
Posted by Kangarou on April 23, 2009 at 10 a.m. #348
Every tier list, Viper slowly creeps up higher and higher...
Posted by Looneytunes on April 23, 2009 at 10:15 a.m. #349
There's almost no point talking about why a character is in a certain tier, these lists are gonna change alot, remember how it took Dhalsim like ten years to get to top tier in Street Fighter II? Pick your character because you like them, don't moan that they are lower in the tiers and please don't tell us how good you are because these lists are based on High Level Tournament Play, X-Box Live is not high Level play. Don't get me wrong there are good players online but c'mon not exactly Valle or Ed Ma
Posted by LooneyTunes on April 23, 2009 at 10:41 a.m. #350
Ha Ha ('',)
Posted by Looneytunes on April 23, 2009 at 10:43 a.m. #351
Ha Ha ('',)
Posted by Madman on April 23, 2009 at 9:57 p.m. #352
ur gonna tell me with a straight face that a Dan would go 5-5 with Abel?
Well i just refuse to believe that
How dare you insult Abel
Posted by sleepyedgar on April 24, 2009 at 7:31 a.m. #353
dont get me wrong but the only thing that Dan doesn't have is good hadoukens beyond that he plays just like shoto
Posted by LooneyTunes on April 24, 2009 at 8:09 a.m. #354
Dan has more health than all the other shoto's too! He's just a joke character, i think he's hilarious! I seen a vid of some guy using Dan against Cammy, Dan did that super taunt where he does all the roly poly's which baited the Cammy player to pull her Ultra only for Dan to then pull his ultra for the win, funny stuff! Type 'Dan Madness Street Fighter IV' into youtube it's hilarious!
Posted by Libix on April 24, 2009 at 1:15 p.m. #355
Tiers are for queers imo,
But its good to have an overview tho
Also to see if the game need some little fix in balancing
I don't think sagat need nerf, i think its better to buff
Some of the low characters just a little bit and it will be fine.
Just play the character you like, I'm new to the SF series.
I love vega(also ken and abel)
And when I get my Fight-stick I'm gonna practice alot =)
Posted by moe5000 on April 24, 2009 at 5:29 p.m. #356
beside the consle characters everyone is even, the tier does mean much u could play el feurte and murder a sagat player
Posted by Turong on April 24, 2009 at 8:47 p.m. #357
I was wondering how guile is a 4 against akuma and ryu. The weakest point of these matchups imo is that their hurricane kick punishes the sonic boom really easy. Other than that guiles air throws outprioritize everything they can do in the air (other than akuma's air fireballs but usually you'll go over them) and other than that just make sure you can stay close and avoid the corners. Just my opinion though.
Posted by Endo on April 24, 2009 at 9:55 p.m. #358
Yet.. one remains unchanged and over 10 victories from the second place......
Posted by sorry on April 24, 2009 at 11:12 p.m. #359
tiers dont apply to scrubs like you all
Posted by they call me the bob on April 26, 2009 at 5:57 a.m. #360
@blahblah: sorry for the late response, but @ your "Cammy avoids Akuma's fireballs" comment: you're making it seem like all Akuma has is fireball spamming. no good Akuma player will just jump up into the air and spam fireballs whenever he can; he will wait a little between each fireball, be they air, ground or red, and mix them up so that Cammy can't just blow through them with her EX attacks. Akuma's stamina may be the second worst in the game, but it's actually not THAT bad. he also has several defensive moves at his disposal to help him avoid damage and corner traps. (teleport, air hurricane kick, EX shoryuken etc etc.)
sorry, but I just don't buy it just yet.
Posted by Dhalsim ftw on April 26, 2009 at 10:05 a.m. #361
RYU AKUMA, and BISON SUCK!!!!
Posted by Sayad. on April 27, 2009 at 3:22 p.m. #362
Akuma sucks in this game
Sagat is rightly placed ( My Fave :D )
Vega is a good Char but you guys are s hit with him
Dans not too bad :S
Posted by j2nkzt on April 27, 2009 at 9:27 p.m. #363
all characters have their pro's and con's. it all realli
depends on personal preference and gameplay.
im a defensive to offensive style player, so my top pick
is obviously guile, with fair damage anti aerials and of course his s.boom to connect his attacks with when u go offensive.
i cant comment much on other characters, since i base 95% of my play time with guile, but i have to note sakuras delay with her dragon punch is quite annoying.
Posted by Kriegdrache on April 28, 2009 at 2:57 a.m. #364
You know what?
Screw this tier list. I mained Dan since the home release and just because he's on the bottom doesn't mean I'm gonna stop.
Saikyo forever, tourneyfriends.
SAIKYO. FOREVER!
Posted by WOODENSTICK on April 28, 2009 at 11:41 a.m. #365
C OCK MOTHER FU CKER BA LLS IN HAIRY A S SHOLE
Posted by 7ITYGVBMYHKC on April 28, 2009 at 11:45 a.m. #366
CAN DHALSIM STRECH HIS C O C K? ID USE IT TO BANG YUR MOM
Posted by dotclipse on April 28, 2009 at 11:50 a.m. #367
eff this. honda should be in 3rd tier, and not 4th.
Posted by ROFL on May 1, 2009 at 9:15 a.m. #368
LAWL cracks me too much joke.
Posted by sleepyedgar on May 1, 2009 at 1:48 p.m. #369
Can someone explain why C.Viper is 7/3 against Seth?
Posted by Raioh on May 2, 2009 at 3:51 p.m. #370
Am I the only one who plays as Dan online?
Posted by Dude on May 3, 2009 at 5:22 a.m. #371
I play for fun!
Posted by Shin Ibuki on May 3, 2009 at 7:45 p.m. #372
Let's go Rufus and Ryu!!! Well I just hope C.Viper is moved up along with Ken everyone is pretty much fine but it doesnt matter you play with who you play with end of the story.
Posted by heh on May 5, 2009 at 10:45 a.m. #373
Man forget Sagat and his newbie friendly antics. 90
5 of Sagat players are failed ryu/ken players.
Posted by heh on May 5, 2009 at 10:46 a.m. #374
90%****
Posted by Anonymous on May 5, 2009 at 10:56 a.m. #375
Could you guys add vertical highlighting too? It'd make grid referencing a lot easier.
Posted by DA MAN on May 7, 2009 at 8:22 a.m. #376
Wow Seth right in the middle tier. I can see why though since he can combo like a mad man.
Posted by Fumn on May 9, 2009 at 12:24 p.m. #377
Well, I have over 1300 matches underneath my belt, and the teir list from my veiw is practically perfect. Although i would say that Seth has a 8 or 9 advantage against a Geif. As a seth as my main his advantage over geif is just ridiculous. you can easily go perfect on a geif with a sonic boom to standing hp. His lariat is easily punished by a standing hp. Not only that, but you can actoually beat him in a grab fight with ur spd.
I also think that rufus and balrog should be an equal fight, spamming booms with tele's and ur air game, its hard for either of them to get close, also seth's ultra punishes an ex buffalo rush or messiah kick.
Posted by nick on May 10, 2009 at 9:56 a.m. #378
i think veg has more to offer than guile, and if u know how to use him right, he can be good. hes got alot of the same sort of moves as guile,and more, but he just cant shoot projectiles like sonic booms
Posted by george on May 10, 2009 at 10:39 a.m. #379
@nick
guile does not have as many specials but what he lacks there he more than makes up for with his regular attacks, he has some of the best normals in the game! i sympathize with claw players but all you can do is quit complaining and prove this tier list wrong by rising above these odds!
Posted by lamarcus on May 10, 2009 at 12:15 p.m. #380
Could you guys add vertical highlighting too? It'd make grid referencing a lot easier.
Posted by Tom on May 10, 2009 at 2:22 p.m. #381
Remember when people said this game was balanced with 17 characters only having 30 pt difference in tiers?
Well now that we are at 3rd strike character totals, the number rose to 52. Congrats people who said this game was balanced. This is no different then any other sf. Unbalanced gameplay is where this game lies.
Posted by Mew on May 10, 2009 at 5:04 p.m. #382
Take away Dan and it looks better at 38.
Posted by r00ster on May 11, 2009 at 12:38 a.m. #383
I am waiting for that magical day when claw pops up to A tier :D
Posted by Legend on May 11, 2009 at 12:47 p.m. #384
Dan's last LMAO
Posted by SFO on May 11, 2009 at 4:47 p.m. #385
Yay! New Tiers! Dan is looking so bad... LOL.
Posted by Everyday Legend on May 12, 2009 at 9:43 a.m. #386
Give the fat boy a break.
Not Rufus, the new kid wannabe. I'm talking about the OG Fat Man, bring back my glorious SF2 Honda!
Posted by Madness on May 12, 2009 at 3:51 p.m. #387
I think the tier list should be the other way around with Guile and Sagat. Guile is going to be a naturally smarter, more patient and analytical player which means his counters to tigershot are more likely to work by far. He won't easily be baited into sagats ultra setups and uppercuts...can't see him losing 7 out of 10.
Also, why the hell would blanka do so badly against him? Pretty strange how Blanka can eat fireball users for lunch and somehow has a disadvantage against them. Hmm...
Posted by The Kid on May 12, 2009 at 4:19 p.m. #388
I find it wierd that abel loses 7/10 times to fei long. Can anyone explain this?
Posted by KenB1988 on May 13, 2009 at 1:17 a.m. #389
Posted by heh on May 5, 2009 at 10:45 a.m. #373
Man forget Sagat and his newbie friendly antics. 90
5 of Sagat players are failed ryu/ken players.
Fail??? u sure cuz I think Sagat is alot better..then Ken and Ryu player c'mon...u seriously believe that? lol
Posted by bla on May 13, 2009 at 11:01 a.m. #390
@ The Kid
I'm pretty sure this tier list was made when Fei Long's chicken kick (or whatever it's called) was not nerfed, like it was when the championship patch came on...so Fei Long had that infinite against Abel.
Posted by Tomiwa on May 18, 2009 at 7:05 a.m. #391
nah im sorry - sakura being so low on da list is disgustin...she can combo people as wel as ken n ryu...without fadc...i use her and i dont lose DAT much...
Posted by C.V. on May 18, 2009 at 2:46 p.m. #392
I don't see Viper vs Sagat 5-5. Viper has to work pretty hard to win this matchup.
Posted by M.B. on May 18, 2009 at 7:56 p.m. #393
I noticed that guile is 6/10 against bison, thats good but probably not correct.
Posted by Madness on May 19, 2009 at 1:36 a.m. #394
Guile would have a distinct advantage vs balrog also, just goes to show you how inaccurate tiers can be as a set in stone guide
Posted by SliCk on May 19, 2009 at 8:34 a.m. #395
Balrog is da best character
Posted by hurleyfide on May 20, 2009 at 8:57 p.m. #396
Wow Im bummed. Cammy is soo low. I really like her play-style, right up in your grill! Oh well, I still think shes good. Especially her Cannon Spike, it's the only thing I've seen that's really effective against Bison's Head Stomp.
Posted by Gurley on May 24, 2009 at 3:03 p.m. #397
ill keep it short, gen/dan too low, ryu/chun too high. My opinion.
Posted by LeftyHangsLower on May 24, 2009 at 10:23 p.m. #398
Dan= win
Posted by Buckroe on May 25, 2009 at 8:49 p.m. #399
Sagat is so much fun to play.
Posted by Dasvanu- on May 26, 2009 at 8:04 p.m. #400
@ C.V.
Viper wins all exchanges with Sagat from mid to full screen, Sagat's lack of speed and Viper's Godlike mobility only help her to keep that distance
Posted by Red on May 27, 2009 at 9:20 p.m. #401
aww, sakura 2nd to the last? aww
Posted by Aylear on May 28, 2009 at 11:04 p.m. #402
I'm still waiting for the list to settle. People are still getting into the game, and it'll take some time before all the characters are explored. Gen, for instance, I feel is a stronger character than his current placement suggests (4th from the bottom), just as I knew Viper was stronger than HER early placement suggested.
I enjoy tier lists, but I'm definitely not a proponent of making them this early. To believe any tier list written just a couple of months into the game's life span to be accurate is folly.
Posted by Bob on May 29, 2009 at 5:21 a.m. #403
I find it hard to win with Sakura so I can understand the tier thing there but I find Dan is quite good for winning sometimes...
Posted by Esura on May 29, 2009 at 9:04 a.m. #404
My god, Sakura is at the bottom of the barrel.
Posted by sleepyedgar on May 30, 2009 at 8:23 p.m. #405
After going to shototown fair in NY i really believe that Sagat and Ryu are unbalanced
Posted by joey2time on May 30, 2009 at 10:25 p.m. #406
any of you that say this game is based on tiers are idiots. This game is all about different strategies against different characters. Also when you are playing online everyone has different styles of playing. This tier only shows what the computer would win against each other, not regular people. I use Sagat and I get owned by a lot of different characters. I can also kick the crap out of those same characters when I play different people. I'm really good at SF4 and people who complain about characters being overpowered are just crying because they suck.
Posted by Zeta on May 31, 2009 at 12:14 a.m. #407
"This tier only shows what the computer would win against each other, not regular people."
What the hell? No it doesn't.
Posted by IllusionSpark on May 31, 2009 at 7:02 a.m. #408
Best thing about tierlists is they also indicate whose more likely to be played the most. The characters lower the tierlist have a bunch of strategies and set-ups most people don't know about because they're stuck on Sagat and Ryu like characters.
Posted by sleepyedgar on May 31, 2009 at 11:17 a.m. #409
You'll find a chart below showing roughly who would win how many games out of 10 if two high-level players of equal skill played against each other using the characters shown.
joey2time please read this before you comment again :)
Posted by That dude on June 1, 2009 at 6:15 p.m. #410
Posted by Raioh on May 2, 2009 at 3:51 p.m. #370
Am I the only one who plays as Dan online?
Dude, i play with Dan all the time. And i win with him also. The key is to keep yourself spaced out from the opponent, strike them when they are open. Dan isnt the worst, plus who listens to Tiers?
Posted by Kineas on June 2, 2009 at 4:12 a.m. #411
I play Dan a lot online, it's really funny to win Ken/Ryu/Sagat players with him. My victory ratio is 40-50% with him aprox.
Anyway, my ranking boost up when I use any other char instead. In my opinion, it's the worst character by far.
Posted by joey2time on June 2, 2009 at 6:41 p.m. #412
I don't care what a dumb tier says. No 2 people are same skilled. How would you determine that? How can you possibly say a Ryu player is the same as a Blanka player? I get that this tier is about not just arcade playing arcade and it is supposed to show people vs people but honestly if you believe that this tier tells the truth and no matter what sagat will beat whoever 6 out of 10 times. Its dumb. ALL THIS SHOWS TO ME IS ARCADE VS ARCADE BECAUSE I DONT BELIEVE THAT YOU CAN DETERMINE A TIER BY PLAYER VS PLAYER BECAUSE THEY ARENT THE SAME.
All you people who think this tier speaks the truth just sucks at street fighter 4 and is that person that sends you a message about how sagat is cheap. All you people can keep on complaining and crying.
Posted by Nyoronoru on June 9, 2009 at 5:20 a.m. #413
C.Viper has a 7 out of 10 against Seth? Why?
Posted by Xearodeath on June 9, 2009 at 7:43 a.m. #414
hey joey2time i can understand your frustration, but they are pretty accurate, there not perfect by any means nor mean that its the final word that or those are the supposest best of the best, these ranking go up and down, i doubt sagat will ever go down, but it depends on how well the players play that character and how far the tournaments they go.
dont laugh but ELF(el fuerte) will raise in rankings cause i keep seeing him in Champ. mode and 80% there wins and if a major tourny comes out i hope he tops 8 and youll see him raise in the tiers, hes not so bad once you know how to use him, if you have perfect timing, hes amazing.
Posted by You waste...people on June 9, 2009 at 9:18 a.m. #415
Those dumbass people that moan that thier charecter is too low down and sagat n co r too high up need a life. ITS A BUNCH OF NUMBERS who cares. sagat and ryu are two of the best in this game. the rest depends on ur taktik u use.
If i use sagat against guile (turtle mode) i will win most of the time. if i full out att, i will get my ass whopped most of the time. Against ryu if i turtle i will get my ass handed to me on a plate but if i dont hold bak then its 50-50.
It depends on how you fight and how ur opponents fight as well.
NO CHART IN THE WORLD CAN GIVE YOU THE ACTUAL ORDER OF RANKS. Sagat, Ryu, Bison near top Sakura, El fuete, near the bottom. The rest is up to us to make out.
Posted by Dee on June 10, 2009 at 12:58 a.m. #416
I LOVE YELLING BECAUSE THEN YOU HAVE TO BELIEVE ME!!!
RUFUS IS BEST!!! LOVE THE FACT THAT HIS BELLY JIGGLES AND THAT HE HAS THE BIGGEST CANS IN THE GAME!!!
Posted by RyokuSF on June 10, 2009 at 3:13 p.m. #417
im a vega(claw) player with a 47-50% win streak. i guess im doing okay right now but yeah im still practicing i just wish he was was a LITTLE better.. i mean seriously the transition from hd to sf4 was so drastic..
Posted by Emrah on June 11, 2009 at 11 a.m. #418
Ken very bad this game .Ken too smooth .Ken gameplay last times sucks. :((((
Posted by Madness on June 12, 2009 at 4:40 a.m. #419
"This tier only shows what the computer would win against each other, not regular people."
That actually makes more sense
Posted by That1Guy on June 18, 2009 at 12:48 p.m. #420
well, this kind of list combined with player/developer imput is the basis for the updates to come, so maybe when Hyper Super Street Fighter IV: Turbo Championship edition comes along, we would see a different or even balanced list.
Posted by Apertin on June 19, 2009 at 4:06 p.m. #421
lol sakura is 2nd weakest?
vs me and i show sakura is number one ;3
Gametag: Apertin
Posted by Anderson Shields on June 20, 2009 at 9:18 a.m. #422
this list will change again
Posted by nnone on June 21, 2009 at 4:11 a.m. #423
i think ken should be higher in the brackets for sure.
whats the current tier list like? isnt gief dropping pretty quick?
Posted by Ghatman on June 21, 2009 at 5:03 p.m. #424
I lol'd at Dan being bottom tier. His focus attack is sick and can be linked into his super and ultra. Plenty of taunts should be used to piss people off.
Taunting Dan is B tier.
Posted by Lucy.ElfenLied on June 22, 2009 at 12:35 p.m. #425
Lol, i think Dan's shoryu FADC should be able to link to ultra, it just makes sense! Either that or im doing it wrong, but i dont think it works...only tried at friend's house.
Posted by Bs on June 23, 2009 at 8:07 a.m. #426
You cannot link dan's ultra, trust I tried too lol. But this tierlist is crap, viper, ken, and sakura should definetly be higher, n next tier list dont even put ryu or sagat there since we all know they are on top
Posted by That1Guy on June 24, 2009 at 7:34 a.m. #427
Dan's ultra isn't linkable, but it does have several properties which make it useful. First, it can go through fireballs, which is a good way to punish players at close range. Second, it has one of the highest prioritys of any ultra on startup, so if you see someone throw out an ultra, do the same and you will probably beat them, but don't try it against Bison, Gouken, Gief or Rufus because youll lose :P
Posted by BigFry on June 24, 2009 at 9:31 p.m. #428
Dan's Ultra is linkable for all those mis-informeds out there. You can link it with his super taunt which stop time for you to execute your ultra. Watch this youtube video and learn : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpmT76...
Posted by BigFry on June 24, 2009 at 9:54 p.m. #429
Heck. His Super attack is even linkable with just a jumping heavy kick .....
Posted by shannaro!!!! on June 25, 2009 at 12:24 p.m. #430
Hm? This tier list is just a teeny bit helpful. The author is right though: stick to the character u like using because of how he/she fights. Me? I have destroyed A LOT of Sagat users with Cammy and I crushed PLENTY of Ryu users using Sakura. Both Cammy and Sakura are apparantly low tiers but they are my best weapons againts these so called "God Tiers"
Posted by sleepyedgar on June 26, 2009 at 7:31 a.m. #431
ur playing the wrong Sagat's and Ryu's
Posted by shannaro!!! on June 27, 2009 at 10:46 p.m. #432
A reply to sleepyedgar:
Hm? Is that a challenge? Do u think niether Cammy NOR Sakura can beat Sagat and Ryu respectively? Tell me which system u own and *maybe* we can arrange something...
Posted by sleepyedgar on June 29, 2009 at 7:02 a.m. #433
I play C.Viper but my ryu is "decent" i play 360 and my gametag is: Gods BFF
Posted by Guile on June 29, 2009 at 7:09 a.m. #434
TIERS are useless, a character's true worth is spoken by his skills, not his ranking...
GUILE FTW!!!!
Posted by The Truth on June 30, 2009 at 11:16 a.m. #435
wow they never use the togeki damshi tier list eventhubs is unrelaiable.
Posted by shannaro!!! on June 30, 2009 at 9:46 p.m. #436
Darn it! Sorry sleepyedgar, but i own a PS3. Ah well, i guess we'll nver know. But seriously though, againts Sagat and Ryu, its always an uphill battle for lot of players. Cammy and Sakura makes the battles just a *little* less painful for me. According to my player data, my win-rate againts Sagat is about 49%. My win-rate againts Ryu is around 52%. It's true that I have crushed a lot of ryus and sagats out there, but I also get crushed at around the same rate.
Posted by Bugger85 on July 3, 2009 at 6:08 a.m. #437
This Tier list needs an update! Because I have so much trouble facing an Abel with my Bison. I know he's moves and everything and I am not too bad with Bison. But I even lose to the worst Abel player. I know, it's that sad.
Posted by KhoiBoa on July 3, 2009 at 1:43 p.m. #438
The tier list is just an example its not for everyone experiences. If 2 other people fight the list will be slightly different. Its just an estimate so stop complaining. Sakura sucks if you think she deserve higher then that means you playing against weaker players then you. Weak damage, weak health, weak ultra, weak combos. Even if you land 2 combos sagat 2 high kicks takes even or more. And which is easier to land? C. Viper is very good at the hands of a pro, her speed and crossup is very hard to predict. Her ultra can be combo into fire kick or lighting palm. Rufus is second highest health and most players use him cause he soo quick with his moves. Guile can never be top tier. Simple he has 2 special moves only. Its predictable. Of course anyone can wind with any character. But against pros bottom tiers are way easier to beat no matter how hard the other player plays. You not pro with ryu until you ex cancle ex fireball into ultra. lol
Posted by Madness on July 3, 2009 at 2:11 p.m. #439
Guile only has 2 special moves, but if shotos didn't get one of them nerfed you'd see he'd easily be top tier. If they fix it in the next version of the game, Guile will be monstrous with what some players are doing with him now.
Everyone in purple is only a buff or 2 from being a serious competitor, people can already use Dhalsim that way. If they didn't give non-shotos a handfull of nerfs while they gave shotos a handful of buffs, probably everything would already be even.
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