Posted by blind101 on August 26, 2008 at 8:55 a.m. #1

great job cant wait to use these moves today

Posted by yoyo on August 31, 2008 at 1:26 a.m. #2

can u control which wall you jump off of for the barcelona attacks?

Posted by heidrek on September 11, 2008 at 3:04 p.m. #3

What is the point in his Claw Throw move? It seems to just go straight through them with no damage, really just a taunt that costs you the claw?

Posted by Michael on October 19, 2008 at 4:08 p.m. #4

I've seen people purposely take off their mask!! how do yoi do that and does it make a difference?

Posted by Cost on November 11, 2008 at 6:23 a.m. #5

notes on "barcelona attack"
* can be executed with diagonals instead of up-direction
(2)down, upback+K = jumps in the back wall,
(2)down, upfoward+K = jumps in the front wall.
** warning: charging barcelona while blocking (downback) for jumping in the front wall (upfoward) can trigger an unwelcome "scarlet terror" by mistake (the 2 moves have almost same button sequence)

Posted by panda on November 20, 2008 at 3:26 p.m. #6

Karathrows? Again? I hated having to learn those...

Posted by Vega Lover on December 30, 2008 at 11:22 a.m. #7

I really love using Vega in SSF2HDR because as a mostly defensive character, he is a fun character to use. I have spent the last few days learning his skills and pulling off his super is really satisfying as it is one of the most difficult to do in the game.

That's why I am disappointed that this time your Super meter is drained even if you dont land the Izuna Drop and I think that's unfair as Vega's is the weakest character in SF.

Posted by VegaNoob on January 7, 2009 at 6:58 a.m. #8

Just a quick couple of questions if anyone has the answers.

1.When doing his Ultra do you need to hit the exact same thing as when you do the Izuna drop even though he is just slicing through them? Or is it just the punch without the direction press. (I don't understand that)

2.Can you do the same button (rotation) sequence you use in hdremix for the super/ultra? (charge back+down-back+forward,up+back)

Thanks in advance for any answers. I haven't been able to play sf4 yet.

Posted by haloly on January 7, 2009 at 8:06 a.m. #9

Vega rocks!!! He's not the worst character! He is in fact one of the top.

I have used him to beat skillful opponent using characters such as Sagat, Zangief, Blanka, Guile, Ken, Ryu and Akuma with the following steps (I was called cheapo a few times for trashing them!):

1) Start of by walking towards opponents, then use crouching medium punch to irritate the hell out of them.
2) If they jump, you jump and air slam them. Because of Vega's speed, his air slam hit 90% of the time. You can also use jump + hard punch to kill off opponent's jumps.
3) If they keep blocking because of your crouching medium punches, use down-forward plus hard kick to get near them and perform a normal slam immediately!
4) Occasionally, perform your Flying Barcelona Attacks as a air slam, cross or overhead to irritate them more! Opponents love to jump directly up and use HK or HP to stop this attack, so just "fly" to the centre first by pushing the joystick up after bouncing off the wall and then immediately push the joystick towards opponent for a burst of speed to slice at them. By doing so, their jump up + HK/HP would be exhausted before you slice at them.

Cheers! Go try these 4 steps and conquer the game!

Posted by Tizoc on January 12, 2009 at 4:05 a.m. #10

Say how do you do DF+HK then combo with a backflip?

Posted by noobzor on February 10, 2009 at 7:37 p.m. #11

How do you do a kara throw? Cant do it

Posted by jakey_J on February 11, 2009 at 1:06 a.m. #12

id say im a pretty good vega player but i just cant hit the diagonal ex wall dive combo he just keeps going backwards

Posted by axinthevoid on February 14, 2009 at 12:56 p.m. #13

Vega is not one of the worst characters in the game, I don't know where you got that idea from. He's one of the main characters I play with.

Posted by SF4 MONSTARZ on February 15, 2009 at 2:27 a.m. #14

Vega is an animal!!! I always liked him because of his claws and narsisistic attitude! He is another character I will be training with like a mad man!! Thank all Vega fans for all the helpful advice and lets show em' "Vega is a bloody brilliant fighterand he'll kick anybody's butt!" (in the right hands of course)

Posted by Chargi on February 15, 2009 at 2:24 p.m. #15

Ultra/Super can also be executed by DB, DF, DB, UB instead of UF. The only think I hate about it, is when you don't do the motion right, you waste precious EX (at Ultra) :(

Posted by Los on February 18, 2009 at 2:03 p.m. #16

Going to the Game Stop tournament and using Vega but really want to use Fei Long but they might not have Fei Long to choose so playing it safe with Vega and I hope to kick ass playing with Vega

Posted by Dio Brando on February 18, 2009 at 3:51 p.m. #17

Ugh, I have a hell of a time preforming the ultra. I keep using his backflip move.

Posted by Backin93 on February 18, 2009 at 4:21 p.m. #18

All were owned by Me in a Vega suit... From UCI to Riverside to Northridge, ppl pulled their quarters off the machine because they got so pissed... ahhh vega...

Posted by TheWidowMaker on February 18, 2009 at 7:37 p.m. #19

I owned this guy with vega PERFECT... hes a shoto/sagat player... A really good tip i know is that, when you go for the izuna drop.. depending on how fast/where you want to go you can control it with the direction, So example... i do the move, and opponent thinks im coming close... trys to anti air (dragon punch) but i dont go anywhere near him... giving me the opening to pull off a super! experiment with it...its really effective, let me know how it goes... anyone who could give me advise?

Posted by Anon on February 19, 2009 at 4:05 p.m. #20

HELP! CAN'T DO VEGA'S SUPER/ULTRA!

Posted by laz on February 19, 2009 at 8:38 p.m. #21

I cant do it either how do u do it?

Posted by Ken is Lame on February 20, 2009 at 8:18 a.m. #22

I use ps3 and set my 3 kicks to the R1 button.
Charge Down+Away from the opponent.
Quickly Roll to Down+Towards the opponent.
Roll Back to the Down+Away and then cross diagonally into a Up+Towards the opponent.

If you use Hard Kick, it will set up up with the Super Izuna Drop.

If you use the 3 kicks it will set you up to do the ultra.

It's a very hard move to master. But totally worth it.

Posted by z3poxx on February 20, 2009 at 8:21 a.m. #23

I got my copy of SF4 and I did try out one of my SF2 favorites Vega right away and to do his super is not so extremly hard as it seams.

First when charging be sure to charge enough duh...

Then be quite fast when preforming the down-right down-left movment.

Then instead of going up-right go just up worked for me when i was fooling around in challenge mode.

ps. i used a regular 360 controller to pull this off.

Posted by Bridgecrew_Dave on February 20, 2009 at 10:35 a.m. #24

Also for his super and ultra, try Charge down-away, then go down-towards, then just roll a half circle back from down towards to up away and hit your kick.

I've found this is the easiest way to do his specials.

The Ultra still makes me do the backflip 50% of the time though.

Posted by S.O.S on February 21, 2009 at 1:11 p.m. #25

HELP!! I am having difficulty pulling off vega's level fourth trial. Specifically the first one in the set.
1. Jump heavy kick
2. Medium kick
3. Light rolling crystal flash

Posted by Blarg on February 21, 2009 at 2:59 p.m. #26

Bridgecrew_Dave:

The thing about that though is that his ultra won't land if the opponent is too close to a wall, so it's smart to go for the wall they are farther away from.

For example, if your getting caught up in the corner, leaping to the opposite wall instead of half circle to leap to the wall you have your back to is smarter than trying it where it's very likely to miss.

For me I get it about 50% of the time, but I need to practice more because in a real match you can't afford to make mistakes.

Especially with Vega.

Posted by pleasehelp on February 22, 2009 at 1:43 a.m. #27

I agree with S.o.s., the vega trials are very confusing and difficult when they ask you to execute a charge move directly after another attack. For example, how am i supposed to go from a [crouch]LP into a Rolling Crystal Flash? The RCF is (charge)<- , -> , P...so that means you need to be holding back on the D-Pad as you are crouching in order to execute this combo. This is completely impossible, unless there is some method I've never heard of. I dont know if S.O.S. is having the same problem as I am but I could really use some help, thanks!

Posted by Brsrkr on February 22, 2009 at 2:24 a.m. #28

To do the rolling crystal flash after a flying hard kick and a medium punch, you have to hold back and CHARGE while you're already in the air, then calculate the 2 seconds the attack needs and poke the opponent with some claw attacks, then IMMEDIATELY push forward and execute the roll.

If you're not sure about this, just go on Youtube and look for the "Street Fighter 2 Strategy". There are some general combos with each of the characters.

Posted by XD on February 22, 2009 at 10:31 a.m. #29

S.O.S after the Jump heavy kick(or when you are doing it) just press and hold back and down on the d-pad(u are charging for RCF) then do the medium kick after that push forward and press at light punch (that is RCF) or when you are doing the jump heavy kick press and hold back ( charging for RCF ) push at medium kick then forward Light punch. I never played SF4 but it maybe works I did this on street fighter alpha 3.

Posted by Bart on February 22, 2009 at 11:21 a.m. #30

Can I have assistant please is there a cheap move to kill seth with Vega

Posted by Seth is lame on February 22, 2009 at 2:46 p.m. #31

No, there isn't a cheap move that Vega really has.

His ex scarlet terror is a great move if he's putting pressure on you from up close though.

His flips are pretty handy as well.

Posted by Bloody Claw on February 22, 2009 at 4:19 p.m. #32

http://www.petitiononline.com/capcomi...

Posted by The Psycho Spashin Ninja, Jink on February 22, 2009 at 9:15 p.m. #33

I won 2nd place of the 1st round at Calumet City of the Game Stop's national tournaments. On 28 I'll complete on the 2nd round. I use Vega (Claw) and it wasn't too hard to compete. I got defeated by a Ken player. It was a close match, he Hadoken at me, then I failed to do his Ultra and end up jumping at the Hadoken, XD. Lot of fun!

Vega's cross ups and zoning can piss the blood out of anyone.
I used cHP,d(crouching)MP link for punishing and build meter, and canceled the dMP with EX Barcelona Knee or EX Sky High Claw for anti-jump and cross up mix ups.

The other very effective mix up I did was; when ever anyone jump at me to land attack into combo, I'd jump snap at them with MK. Then, when started to interrupt me with their snap jumps, I would then wall under them as they whiffed jump snaps, then punish then in the air behind them with dHP. That leaved me with reset advantage for throw/meaty mix ups.
My favorite link are LK,LK,dMP and cHP,dMP.

And later I did this link combo: land-HK,dMK,LK,dMK. It is sweet if you like link combos a lot but it does 251 damage, which is less than land-HK,cHP,dMP which is 256 damage.
Vega rocks! He's a crazy Spanish ninja!!
Also, by taking off the mask, HP does 132 damage instead 120 as he does with mask on. I will consider playing a more offensive style by using the Focus and EX Focus mix ups, and with mask off.
Play ala Contra, hehehe.

Posted by The Psycho Spashin Ninja, Jink on February 22, 2009 at 9:25 p.m. #34

Correction: ...when THEY started to interrupt me with their jump snaps, I would then WALK under them...

Sorry. :)

Posted by HEKTIK on February 22, 2009 at 11:50 p.m. #35

anyone know where i can get a printable version of this?

Posted by Onyx on February 24, 2009 at 7:21 a.m. #36

When Vega loses his claw he slightly loses attack power for any attacks that use his claw in addition to losing range. This includes his ultra combo. Kicks and throws are unaffected. When he loses his mask his damage for all attacks is slightly increased, but the damage that he receives is noticeably larger. Removing your mask (or refusing to retrieve it after being knocked off) is only really useful if you're pretty confident that you're not going to get hit a whole lot. Even then it isn't really worth using half of your EX meter.
I've tested this in training mode and against other players. If you lose your claw you should probably make an effort to grab it, especially if you plan on doing an ultra combo.

Posted by Blank on February 24, 2009 at 10:21 a.m. #37

So, it says that you can throw your claw at your opponent, but when I do the move vega just tosses his claw up. How is this move useful in any way?

Posted by Bridgecrew Dave on February 24, 2009 at 8:48 p.m. #38

Blank:

Different Strength punches throw the slaw different directions. It's never really that useful though. It's more of a taunting move then anything.

Posted by Tenchi on February 25, 2009 at 12:05 a.m. #39

I always hated vega actually.... Simply because the dude was hard to fight against. Even in the SF2 days. Now I just started playing with him and I have him down already. I used to be a major shoto player until I started using Blanka back in cvs2. I have to say that the main problems I have are with ken. If you dont pay attention and abuse barcelona, you will be punished. I enjoy playing mind games with this guy.

Posted by MRHAMBURGERR on February 25, 2009 at 1:45 a.m. #40

YODALEY-HEE-HOO!

Posted by Blackdealth on February 27, 2009 at 6:34 p.m. #41

Dont think theses combos work

• Jumping Hard Punch, Standing Hard Punch, Link into Crouching Medium Punch, Cancel into EX-Wall Dive •
The EX-Wall Dive will not connect if your opponent is crouching.

• Level 2/3 Saving Attack, Dash Cancel, forward plus Medium Kick, forward plus Hard Kick, down plus Hard Kick •

Posted by Blackdealth on February 27, 2009 at 6:35 p.m. #42

Also does any one else find it hard 2 go int focus after a slide?

Posted by blackdealth on February 27, 2009 at 7:58 p.m. #43

sorry about that that this works but not in the corner

Jumping Hard Punch, Standing Hard Punch, Link into Crouching Medium Punch, Cancel into EX-Wall Dive •
The EX-Wall Dive will not connect if your opponent is crouching

Posted by Todd S. on February 28, 2009 at 5:25 p.m. #44

Here's a nifty combo I found:

Lv. 2/3 Focus -> FADC -> c.MK -> Light Scarlet -> EX Scarlet

Posted by CoL on March 6, 2009 at 4:03 a.m. #45

If you are trying to do vegas ultra or super you need to use the analog stick. Its too hard to pull off with the dpad.

Posted by Rudy C on March 6, 2009 at 8:26 p.m. #46

what i do his special with the dpad son .... col its easier on the dpad and...... F*** Sagat

Posted by Trill on March 6, 2009 at 10:25 p.m. #47

man that last combo on his 4th trial is crazy I can't figure out when they want me to charge for the barcelona thing it's like focus attack, diagonal forward down HK, then EX barcelona into izuna drop, I guess you can start charging with the focus attack but when you have to hit the HK part I seem to lose it, I did pull the jump off once but it might have been too slow...;_;
also when you do his flip forward into ex flip forward attack do you have to charge for the second one? I did but i just barely pulled it off but I saw in a video a guy did it much quicker

Posted by carb on March 7, 2009 at 10:26 a.m. #48

As far as the 4th trial goes, you should charge the EX barcelona from the moment you input dwn+fwd+HK. During the juggle state, if you've been holding dwn+fwd+HK and just before the opponent hits the ground, finish with up+fwd+(kk). You should know what to do from there.

Posted by Shanic on March 7, 2009 at 4:28 p.m. #49

I can't pull off hard trial numero 2 I can do it up to light crouching kick bu then when I get to light scarlet terror followed by ex scarlet terror they wont connect.

So I do
Jump heavy punch
Crouch light punch
crouch light kick

-DAN BLOCKS HERE-

light scarlet terror IS BLOCKED

and ex scarlet terror hits.

am I doing it too slow or something? :(

Posted by The Psycho Spanish Ninja, Jink on March 8, 2009 at 3:01 a.m. #50

Claw's trails are not that hard.

Canceling RC into Su is very, but very awesome.

At first, I thought that Claw's Bloody High Claw was quite useless. But now, I'm landing it more than my opponents landing me their Uc. I just do the same meta game reaction I use for anti air mix ups, but with move charged.

;)

Posted by TH3 JoK3R J on March 8, 2009 at 3:09 a.m. #51

W00t! i completed vega normal trial mode i
never thought i would get pass lv 4 firtst part
i kept tryin then i threw my mask off and i
was able to do the combos but hard trial
IS TOO HARD!! LOL

Posted by et on March 8, 2009 at 1:01 p.m. #52

hell yea, im stuck on hard trial level 4!!! help me!!!

Posted by TH3 JoK3R J on March 8, 2009 at 11 p.m. #53

WHAT vega trail not that hard well it is easy but the first
combo to do on lv4 is a bitch! dan would block your Rolling Crystal Flash all night.

Posted by Anonymous on March 9, 2009 at 8:59 p.m. #54

Thanks for the info on Vega, but I'm somewhat disappointed that he's considered low-tier, although nobody gives a rat's arse about Dan being the worst in the console version. I was also worried that I may have to switch over to Sagat because he is considered the best character in the game.

Posted by Vega rules on March 13, 2009 at 4:46 p.m. #55

@ #54. you would switch to top tier...

Posted by anonymous on March 14, 2009 at 1:57 a.m. #56

where is the story page for vega?????????????? everyone else has one.....whats up with that??????

Posted by x Who Is Alpha on March 15, 2009 at 12:59 p.m. #57

almost won the Regional championchip with my vega... so close but ah well ima make sure to win next time, with enough work hes a decent and fun character to use aside from ryu, Sagat, Gief, and Balrog which is all that I saw at my tourny

Posted by The Psycho Spanish Ninja, Jink on March 15, 2009 at 5:41 p.m. #58

For me, the only evident weakness Vega has is his hit priority. Vega get easily gets traded or hit on those situation.
As for not having a reliable anti air attack, you can always dash under jumping opponents and punish their whiff with dHP (110 damage).

Posted by x Who Is Alpha on March 15, 2009 at 8:59 p.m. #59

@ The Psycho Spanish Ninja

I always found that scarlet terror was good for trading hits in the air because you could hit the ground no matter what situation you were in before them and set them up for all sorts of shenninagans... but ya he has zero move priority with any of his moves, but whats bad is that once vega gets knocked down its pretty difficult to get someone off of you for a good while, excellent defense is the key for him to set up his excellent offense.

Posted by TH3 JoK3R J on March 16, 2009 at 3:23 p.m. #60

@ x Who Is Aplha

It's not hard to get someone off of
you when knocked down when getting back up
don't rush your Scarlet Terror just crouch back (but watch out for unexpected throw)let your opponent throw some shots while blocking in the middle of that SCARLET TERROR!

there you go lol why i soon after that i izuna drop them when they get back up.They just block.

Posted by London Dry on March 17, 2009 at 8:11 a.m. #61

Was experimenting with the anti-air flip kicks and found that light kick works in that situation as well and for juggles it's actually always better to go from light kick.

The damage breakdown for anti air scarlet terror

lk -> 100
mk ->hit 1 = 60, hit 2 = 80, total =140
hk -> hit 1= 60, hit 2 = 100, total = 160
EX -> hit 1 = 70, hit 2 = 110, total = 180

Since the mk and hk juggles only can get the first hit of each, the max for any combination of those two is only 120, meaning you're better off doing each as a stand alone 2 hit combo over the juggle, Light kick always gets 100 since it's 1 hit so lk to mk is as good as a 2 hit hk. When you do the lk to EX it counts it as the second hit of the EX so you get 100 plus 110 for a total of 210 damage, the best by a good margin.

So here are your best options for scarlet terror anti-airs, assuming you do get stuffed due to lk lower priority.

with one bar:
LK to EX = 210
just EX 2 hit = 180

no bars of super:

HK = 160, damage ties with lk to mk or lk to hk but it's easier and safer just to hk and save the charge for something else. I think I've tested all the combinations of anti air flip kicks the game allows but if you think I left one out I'll give it a shot.

Posted by Blackdealth36k on March 18, 2009 at 2:56 p.m. #62

If u ever wanna fight the best Vega Palyer Hit Me Up No Joke Was Ranked In The Top 1000 Players until i left my bro with the game for a weekend Gamertag BlackDealh36k

Posted by TH3 JoK3R J on March 18, 2009 at 11:18 p.m. #63

@ Blackdealth36k-
I'll take your challenge lets see how good you really are i will post back to say who is the winner if i do lose anyway.
>: )

Posted by Etudahart (xboxlive) on March 19, 2009 at 1:51 p.m. #64

Vega is the best Char in this game to me along with Abel. I use a couple of killer stategy's to win with Vega and they work every time.
1. Vega's Flying Barcalona's cross up wirks almost everytime... and after doing it 3 times, it throws ur opponents game plan out the window. Also fake the flying barcalona and hug the wall to also scare ur opponent out of their ballgame.

2. Fierce punch has great reach and damage, dance with ur distance and strike with it like Ali's jab

3. EX barcalona works everytime with the proper body language. After dropping an opponent, if they see a crouching vega there first thought is to jump in. as soon as ur opponent stands use ur EX bacalona and catch with the Izuna drop. (my favorite move) ALOT of damage.

4.Body language can get u half their energy bar EASY. after dropping ur opponent one... walk back to look like ur retreating.. but when ur opponent gets up low fierce slide for good damage. Dumb opponents can get caught swith this around 2 or 3 times.. to switch it up walk in on the opponent to intice there attacks but when they get up use the short back flip to parry Uppercuts, supers, and grabs all day. I usually come back with a grab after this. after doing these steps several times ur opponent is scared while getting up, which makes for an easy grab everytime. Its all a mind game and vega is very scary.

5. use ur back flip to go through fireballs, also to make the opponent react with a fire ball or a jump or even a taunt. Coming out of a back flip use ur ultra to punish their confidence.

Im Etudahart on XboxLive rank 1422 . ill take on any challenge. Great website madude.

Posted by TH3 JoK3R J on March 19, 2009 at 3:08 p.m. #65

Im back with results......
Well i got my ass kicked five times in a row are matches were close but i coudnt get the final kill he is a great vega user so thats that.

Posted by Blackdealh36k on March 19, 2009 at 3:28 p.m. #66

Good advice Etudahart....2 be really good with vega u gotta have different styles with him always thrwing ur opp off esp in 5 round matches I think im so good with vega because im very aware of what my opponent can do from ken to Gen

Posted by London Dry on March 20, 2009 at 10:25 a.m. #67

The jumping fierce punch, close standing hp, link to crouching mp cancel into EX wall dive (izuna drop) is character specific. Some characters require a crouching lp linked in place of the crouching mp due to the mp having too much push back. Also you can start it with a jumping hk for roughly the same damage.

Medium punch link works on:
Abel, Sakura, Rose, Zangief, Rufus, C. Viper, Sagat, Balrog, Guile, Dhalsim, Chun Li and Cammy

the lp link works on:
Gen, Fuerte, Bison, Vega, Fei Long, and Gouken

Some characters are questionable whether is works on them at all, they are:
Honda, Blanka, Ryu, Dan, Akuma and Ken

Tested by Aegis Neglector (on SRK) and witnessed by London Dry

* Also the part about not hitting a crouching opponent is a fallacy because the close standing hp will stand up any character from a crouch.

Posted by The Psycho Spanish Ninja, Jink on March 21, 2009 at 5:24 a.m. #68

Vega can combo jHK or jHP into dfHK by hitting the opponent's foot with jHK or jHP.

Vega can also combo Focus2~BackDash~Ultra. It does about 400+ damage.

Vega can Focus2~FowardDash~cHP~dMP~ExBarcelona~Izuna.

Posted by Phinny on March 21, 2009 at 12:29 p.m. #69

@ #68
First combo you described isnt a combo at all. its just a convenient link.
Second, the ultra alone does about 500, however, I guess the focus might be a good setup and assure you that the ultra will hit.
Third one however sounds pretty useful. Gonna have to try that one out.

Posted by Aegis Neglector on March 21, 2009 at 7:20 p.m. #70

Umm...no offense, Phinny, but are you suggesting that just because something is a link it doesn't qualify as a combo??? I don't know if you've noticed, but the brunt of SFIV's combo system is link-based. So, according to your logic none of said combos are combos at all -- they're just "convenient links". Eye r confoozed...

Posted by al2k on March 21, 2009 at 8:48 p.m. #71

need help getting the izuna drop in stead of the claw attack. any good tip out there?

Posted by Aegis Neglector on March 21, 2009 at 8:56 p.m. #72

Depends: are you trying to Izuna after an EX Wall Dive or a normal Wall Dive?

Posted by al2k on March 21, 2009 at 10:04 p.m. #73

it was much easier to get the drop in remix

Posted by Chompy on March 21, 2009 at 11:37 p.m. #74

Vega is god in this game. leaping kick link with EX-Flying Barcelona Attack & Izuna Drop is sick, and it's better if you take of your mask(when you don't have the mask, you do more damage).

Posted by dave on March 22, 2009 at 1:03 a.m. #75

it should be noted that vega's bloody high claw ultra does in fact, NOT do much chip damage at all. it does about as much chip damage as a haduken. and its not safe at all when blocked, since vega bounces back, easily allowing for the opponent to punish with their ultra

Posted by Aegis Neglector on March 22, 2009 at 1:41 a.m. #76

Guys, there seems to be a misconception that Vega is best played without his gear (or at least his mask). I can't stress enough how wrong this theory is! Vega's defense is none too spectacular as it is, so he needs all the assistance that he can get. I am very new to EventHubs, but I've been posting on SRK for years. I've been playing at high-level for quite some time, and there is a very big difference between casual play and tourney play. I'm not saying meaning to sound pompous or uppity -- I'm sure plenty of you also play at tourney level, as well. Anyway, my point is that removing your gear is best kept in fun matches against friends. It's much like taunting: it serves no real purpose despite the damage boost. Vega is more than capable of inflicting the damage he needs without show-boating too much in the process. I've been reading a lot of the comments thus far, and I've seen a very eclectic collection of strategies and tricks. There is, of course, a preferred way to ascertain victory given his limited damage output and less-than-desirable defense.

- First and foremost: DO NOT GET RID OF HIS GEAR!!!!!
- Vega's pokes are still the core of his strategy.
- Not all opponents are created equal: projectile characters are fought very differently than grapplers, rushers-down, and fellow pokers. EX High Claw is really the only version that should be used, as it safely and reliably goes through projectiles.
- Vega's Ultra goes through projectiles as well, but given the daunting punishability of it, it should generally only be used from full-screen. This way, Vega is already close to the side of the screen, cutting valuable milliseconds off of the actual animation of the move.
- Both EX Scarlett Terror and EX Wall Dive are quite vulnerable on start-up. It's not particularly useful to use them as wake-ups, especially against Shoto types.
- Vega's kara throw is much more valuable than people give credit. Two cr. LK's will put Vega at just the proper space to utilize the kara.
- x3 attack back-flips are AMAZING in this game. They will go through pretty much anything that any opponent can throw at you.

Again, I'm not meaning to come across as some know-it-all jerk, because I'm far from perfect. This is simply a compilation of tactics that I've gathered after using Vega personally and watching high-level Japanese footage. Vega is definitely not one for big, flashy combos. He's a rather straight-forward character that should be played in a fairly utilitarian manner, much like Guile.

Posted by de bunk da junk on March 22, 2009 at 8:29 a.m. #77

@ Etudahart

hey you still playing?

im a add you and we'll have a game or two hey :-)

Posted by de bunk da junk on March 22, 2009 at 8:33 a.m. #78

hey i really want to try something out...anyone wanna play? you have to be vega. im gonna be guile. i get the feeling guile will kick his a** because guile has crazy cool recovery time on some moves

Posted by Mike on March 22, 2009 at 10:07 a.m. #79

This is beyond a joke... I considered myself to be at least an average Vega player, preferring him to the other spam characters..

But his trial takes the piss :(. I simply cannot do his 4th trial, even the 1st part. I charge for plenty of time in the jump, land both kicks, but on the 50% of the tries he DOES the damned RCF, Dan just blocks it... Seriously, wtf??

Posted by al2k on March 22, 2009 at 10:27 a.m. #80

I'm tring to get the izuna drop consistantly on my opponent whether they are standing or crouching(not jumping), but instead the claw attack seem to come out more often leaving me open if i whiff or its blocked. In sfft remix the drop was easier to do. the funny thing is that it easier to do his triple izuna drop super consistantly. Wierd.

Posted by Phinny on March 22, 2009 at 3:20 p.m. #81

@ #70 aegis

Its only 2 attacks though that just happen to link together. its one link. if it was 2 attacks that just juggled the person, I would call it a juggle. if it was a move that canceled one attack into another, I'd call it a cancel. However, if you use a combination of these together, I'd call it a combo. I consider combos to be 3 or more attacks/2 or more links/cancels/juggles together.

No offense...

Posted by Aegis Neglector on March 22, 2009 at 9:16 p.m. #82

Back @ Phinny: no offense taken, but regardless of what you, personally, consider a combo the fact remains. This is a very fundamental concept that's been around since the dawn of fighting games. If you can string two or more attacks the likes of which your opponent cannot block together successively it is a combo...period. Whether it's due to a chain property or a link property, it's still, by definition, a combo. When you perform the aforementioned link (jumping HP/HK -> Cosmic Heel) the game's combo counter will register two consecutive hits, thus making it a combo. Again, regardless of what you perceive to be a combo, if the game says it's a combo, then it's a combo. Furthermore, from Cosmic Heel you can cancel into EX Wall Dive or simply reset for a mix-up. I mean...I don't really know how much more black-and-white to make it for you, bro. lol I'm not really sure I understand your logic here.

Anyone else, please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. If you can come up with some profoundly astute reason that explains how I'm misinformed in my statement, I'm all ears...err, eyes, rather.

Posted by London Dry on March 23, 2009 at 3:31 a.m. #83

Aegis Neglector is completely correct about this combo debate. It's a branching type hierarchy. A combo is the broadest term that encompases chains, links, cancels, targets, juggles or any combination thereof. The types of things that make up the combo have no effect on the set of moves being a combo; 2 links are just as much a combo as 2 links canceled into something or those same links used to set up a juggle.

Posted by Anonymous on March 23, 2009 at 10:10 p.m. #84

@ Vega Rules:

What if I keep getting creamed by Sagat, Rufus and Zangief players while I use Vega? Especially since that they're considered some of the best characters to use (with Sagat being the top).

If I'm going to use Vega, then I would need to find a way to counter their strategies and prove them wrong.

(My apologies for this comment, because I am a newbie here).

Posted by ZombieRommel on March 23, 2009 at 10:28 p.m. #85

Here's what I've found vs Sagat:

Do Flying Barcelona Crossups whenever you can... soon a good Sagat player will catch on and begin doing the Tiger Uppercut to stop you though... here is where your mixup game is critical. When he starts doing this, just do your Flying Barcelona off the wall but DON'T go near Sagat. Just land on the ground at about sweep distance. He will do the uppercut and whiff at which point you can press down and Fierce whenever he's coming down from it and hit him with your claw at a good range.

Sky-High Claw: do NOT use the regular one. He can easily hit you out of it with his fireballs. Use the EX version to fly through the fireballs and slash the overpowered bastard in the face. Expect a Tiger Uppercut upon wakeup if you're close to him after the Sky-High Claw. Use a variation of PPP and KKK flips to get distance away from him. Do NOT fight him up close. That is what he wants. Instead keep a distance with the flips and with the Barcelona jump and bait him into attacking with feint Barcelonas while occasionally doing the real Barcelona cross-up.

If he starts to get really aggressive and chase you while you're flipping away, charge down-back for Scarlet Terror to knock him out of his jumps. Mix in a crouching MP or a slide if you're daring whenever he starts to aggressively chase you as you're likely to get a counter-hit on him.

As for Rufus, I haven't played enough of them to comment. Zangief is still giving me problems simply because Vega takes so much damage from him. I can him him 20 times and all he has to do is hit me 4 times and piledrive me and I'm dead. The most effective strategy so far has been to poke him with crouching MP/ standing FP with the occasional Sky-High Claw thrown on. Backflip away from him while charging down for the Flying Barcelona (to get away from him, not to attack him. Use EX Sky-High-Claws and use Scarlet Terror if the player you're fighting likes to jump into you to do the piledriver. Whatever you do, DON'T get cornered as you are basically toast if that happens.

Posted by ZombieRommel on March 23, 2009 at 10:32 p.m. #86

I do have a question: What is the most effective motion for the Ultra? It is a giant bitch for me to execute this move consistently. Half the time I flip, and half the time I do EX Barcelona jumps. :\

Posted by London Dry on March 23, 2009 at 11:12 p.m. #87

@ ZombieRommel I suggest using the shortcut motion from SF II that I stated in the HD Remix Vega thread "Instead of charge DB, DF, DB, UF, Kick then direction + Punch when close, you can charge DB, go to DF and then make a 3/4 circle backwards ending at UF. Spelled out that means charge DB, go to DF, D, DB, B, UB, U, Uf+Kick then direction + P. It is technically more inputs, but it's less jerky than the old school way." Note that this is for the cross up version of the old super, of course now for the Ultra you need to input 3 kicks instead of one. Also the ultra is usually best done off your own wall, in that case, stop at up back for this shortcut motion.

Posted by London Dry on March 23, 2009 at 11:23 p.m. #88

Zangief can get hit by Ex flying barcelona and ultra pretty much anywhere on screen which means if you play it smart you can punish whiffs with them. A smarter use of the EX barcelona would be to cancel it out of a crouching medium kick or punch into an opposite wall Izuna drop for only 10 less damage than a cosmic heel into Ex izuna for a less risky lead-in. The keep away poke gameplan is definitely a good way to go though.

Posted by ZombieRommel on March 24, 2009 at 12:55 a.m. #89

Thanks London, I will try that method.

Do you think that vegas LP and LK are good for anything? I tend to mash on them when the opponent gets in my face if I can't do anything else.

Posted by Aegis Neglector on March 24, 2009 at 11:43 a.m. #90

@ Anonymous: Never, EVER apologize for asking a question, ESPECIALLY when you're new. Even the best players in the world asked/ask questions and were new at one point. :)

Anyway, definitely take heed ZombieRommel's advice on Sagat. Just be careful: as he said, a good Sagat player will eventually catch on to your Barcelona Attack cross-ups, so you sometimes want to pull up short to make them whiff. At the same time, however, if they're a good Sagat they'll also be expecting things like that. Often times, Sagat will simply wait until the last, possible second to see where you're going to go, then decide what the appropriate course of action is. If you attempt the cross-up they can Tiger Uppercut. If you fake and land in front of him, he can simply use any ranged low poke into free combo or just standing HK. Just be careful and use caution with whatever tactic the situation calls for.

@ ZombieRommel: Both are FANTASTIC pokes. Remember that cr. LP links into cr. MP as well as into itself. Close, standing LK is a surprisingly good move that can beat quite a bit up-close.

Posted by Phinny on March 24, 2009 at 1:09 p.m. #91

@London

You can stop at UB when you're making the back circle motion. You don't need to continue to U, UF. It still works, and it makes you jump behind, so it's actually to your advantage.

I use a 360 controller to do this (no money for stick =/)
I just do it all in 2 smooth motions
Hold DB, then move the stick to D, DF, then bring it back up to D, DB, B, UB + Left trigger (all kicks).

Posted by London Dry on March 24, 2009 at 6:44 p.m. #92

@ Phinny: I was actually referring to the motion used to go to the opposing wall. You're correct: you can stop at UB, however this will cause Vega to jump to his wall. If you want to do a cross-up Super/Ultra, then you can stop at UF.

Posted by Phinny on March 24, 2009 at 7:28 p.m. #93

Any advice on how to play against cheap tactics? Anyone?

Anything against Ryu, KEN, Guile, and Zangief would be MUCH appreciated.

A kid playing Zangief killed me today, and he just spammed that spinning move. I just couldn't get away. I tried spamming all 3 punches on wakeup, but he'd always be next to me when I finished flipping, and I'd be vulnerable. Next thing I know, he has me up against a wall, my mask and claw are gone, and I die in 2 more hits. I did try doing low attacks and his sweep to neutralize him, but for some reason, I still got hit. It was also kinda hard to get a flying barcelona attack off on him when he did the spinning. I felt like such a noob. Didn't help that he set the rounds to 1 either <_< ruined my 12 win streak =/ Playtime for me on SF4 says 90 hours. that kid probably has 2. Is playing lowest tier really worth it with all these obvious imbalances? Sure, when you kill a sagat, you rejoice, but then that moment can be short lived.

Posted by Aegis Neglector on March 24, 2009 at 9:25 p.m. #94

@ Phinny and everyone else that's wondering: First of all, tier should have no impact on whether or not you play a character. No one, and I mean NO ONE, is anywhere close to what, say, Sean was in 3rd Strike, and yet some people still played him. Why? Because that's who they enjoyed. I'm not saying you shouldn't sample all of the metaphorical flavors that Street Fighter Robbins ice cream has to offer, but more important than any tier listing is the amount of pleasure that you derive from playing with a character that suits your play-style. :)

That said, Gief is ALWAYS going to give Vega trouble. The fact is Vega simply does not have the tools needed to make him a viable threat to Gief. Barcelona Attacks, whether they be frontal or cross-up, are virtually useless due to his Lariat, and the same notion applies to Sky Claw. Jumping in is also out of the question for the same reason. Should you somehow successfully land a jump-in, hope that the Gief player stepped away to have a piss or something, because if you slip up even the SLIGHTEST in your follow-up combo or try to tick-throw you're inevitably staring down the throat of an SPD -- it's just the nature of the beast (literally).

So what's the bad news, you ask? Well, Vega has to rely on his low-damage, weeny pokes to even fathom ascertaining victory in this match-up. Long range pokes are vital to your survival. This entales cr. MP, standing HP, max-range cr. HK, and standing HK. Gief is going to be applying pressure -- that's just how it is. This is very likely going to cause the loss of your gear...multiple times. Stay calm. Don't panic and feel as though the round is automatically over. While you want to retrieve your gear as quickly as possible you don't want to get killed in the process. Maintain your poking regimen, and keep him at a safe distance. Try to constantly be storing a charge, because if you happen to land cr. MP you can instantly cancel into EX Barcelona Attack for some much-needed damage. Upon landing, you can pick up any gear that's close, but, again, don't let this concern ruin what footing you have at this point. A common misconception is that x3 P is a good escape tactic against Gief. BZZZZZZ!!! Wrong!!! Because Vega takes so long to flip Gief has more than ample time to retaliate with an EX Green Hand without even walking forward first. If you're going for an SPD bait you're better off using the x3 K flip. This way the Gief player has a much smaller window of opportunity to punish your escape attempt. From max distance, Vega's LP and MP Crystal Flash Rolls can be used to begin a low block string, though it's risky at best. If Gief tries to jump in on you EX Scarlett Terror might be your best defense. Worst case scenario it will trade, but you will get the knock-down.

Posted by Aegis Neglector on March 24, 2009 at 9:28 p.m. #95

cont'd...

Unfortunately, there is no lather-rinse-repeat system for beating a good (or scrubby, for that matter) Gief player. You must always keep your wits about you, and play smart. Capitalize on any mistakes to achieve combo damage here and there, and, for the love of God, do NOT go toe-to-toe with him!!! I know it sounds hopeless, but this fight can go your way with practice and patience.

Sorry for the insanely long-winded response, guys. I know I didn't encompass the aforementioned projectile characters, but if need be I'll come back to them. In the meantime, take heed my advice: it might save Vega's life. ;)

Posted by Blackdealh36k on March 25, 2009 at 9:19 a.m. #96

Vega Lovers...hahha.. I just hit a milestone today and hit an 8 hit combo with Vega..on the verge of putting video on youtube..gotta get my cpu back tho..havent heard anyone say that b4 so I must be the first even tho i'm not probably...also thought i found a way to combo into the ultra it just wont go tho i'll keep trying tho

Posted by Aegis Neglector on March 25, 2009 at 4:38 p.m. #97

@ Blackdealh36k: I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but someone beat you to it, bro.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c32b6W...

Posted by Blackdealh36k on March 26, 2009 at 2:54 p.m. #98

MAn ya'll sure that video is real its a lil blair witch...

Posted by Aegis Neglector on March 27, 2009 at 2:46 p.m. #99

@ Blackdealh36k: Ummmm......why, because you can't do it? lol No offense, bro, but can you do Urien's advanced knee-drop unblockables? Can you do Yun's "Keeper Jin" combo? Can you do Bison's "Paint the Fence" or Sakura's "Sho-sho" combo? All I'm saying is just because you can't personally do something it doesn't automatically mean that it's all trap-doors and mirrors. I mean, I consider myself to be a pretty well-rounded fighting gamer, but if I thought that everything I couldn't do was fake, well....let's just say there would be a LOT of fake crap. lol

I'm confused: what, exactly, makes you think that this video is so illegitimate? I'll go through and break it down for you step by step if you need me to.

Posted by al2k on March 27, 2009 at 6:21 p.m. #100

Claw's air-throw is dangerous! Now i got to master the izuna drop on the wall! HEEEEEEEEE!

Posted by Panda on March 27, 2009 at 9:22 p.m. #101

Vega's no longer worst in the game! Both Dan and Rose are considered worse now, yay!

Posted by Chompy on March 27, 2009 at 9:48 p.m. #102

What is the best "get off of me" attack that Vega has?

Posted by Aegis Neglector on March 28, 2009 at 12:22 a.m. #103

@ Chompy: He doesn't really have one, honestly. The only time that you can use his EX Scarlett Terror as a "get off me" tool is when you're waking up when your opponent is at the top of their jump-in. Other than that just be ready to counter-poke and counter-throw when the time comes.

Posted by Aronnik on March 28, 2009 at 1:34 p.m. #104

@Chompy

If by "get off of me" you mean they're really close up on ya, Id just use crouchin pokes. You can do 3 lights, and finish it with a medium all in combo, and that puts them a safe distance from you.

@Aegis Neglector to Blackdealh36k

Thats pretty judgmental of you. he was probably showin some sarcasm and hyperbole, and was really commenting on the craziness of the vid. I prolly couldnt do it right off the bat (I maybe could if I broke it down and spent a few hours or so in training =P ; The guy provided the exact movements in the video description), but I don't think its impossible. You don't have to jump to conclusions and say "YOU THINK ITS IMPOSSIBLE BECAUSE YOU THINK YOU'RE ALL THAT AND YET YOU CANT DO IT". You have no idea who he is. You don't have to turn everything into an easy argument for you just so you can win and get bonus points. That's mighty scrubbish.

Posted by Blackdealh36k on March 28, 2009 at 3:39 p.m. #105

@Aegis Neglector - I can obviously see that is was done the only think i wanted to see is if it was actually counted as a combo by the game...for ewxample if autoblock was on or not...I love Vega and consider myself one of the top players with him..if theres a combo to be done in game i wanna learn...sorry if i c came off any other way

Posted by Aegis Neglector on March 28, 2009 at 4:05 p.m. #106

@ Aronnik: First off, what, other than this, have I apparently turned into an easy argument??? Funny: looking back on my comments up to this point I've done pretty much nothing but HELP people in this thread. I've been courteous, I've been thorough, and I've only posted when I actually had something worth contributing. Frankly, I couldn't give a squirt of piss about impressing people in here, nor do I have a need for "bonus points" -- the guy at the ticket counter informed me that they're all out of whoopee-cushions. I'm here trying to give advice and support, and thus far all I've gotten has been Phinny telling me I don't know what the hell a combo is and Blackdealh36k telling me that I don't post legit videos. You guys on Eventhubs sure have a strange way of showing gratitude.

Second, I was simply going off of his previous post, in which he said: "havent heard anyone say that b4 so I must be the first even tho i'm not probably." See, to ME, that's a lot scrubbier sounding than what I said. To me, that sounds a lot like, "Well, since no one else has posted a video of it, I must be the only person so far that can do it...hehe, just kidding...but not really." Also, why did you go off on some tangent about being able to do it in training mode if you had enough time??? This whole deal here...

"I prolly couldnt do it right off the bat (I maybe could if I broke it down and spent a few hours or so in training =P ; The guy provided the exact movements in the video description), but I don't think its impossible."

...was the most out-of-left-field comment I've read in this thread yet. Kudos.

Well, I guess I've already gone on long enough...plus, I have to go to the bathroom. So, to whom it may concern (especially Blackhealh36k): I'm genuinely sorry. I didn't mean to offend you, nor did I mean anything personal by my comments -- if you knew me, you'd know that's just how I get sometimes. lol Consider it my way of employing "sarcasm and hyperbole"... And thank you, Aronnik, for showing us that you know a Yale-esque synonym for the word 'sarcasm'.

attentive : punctilious
depressed : lugubrious
sneaky : clandestine (we would also accept 'surreptitious')

There are a few more in case your well runs dry...on the house. ;)

Posted by Blackdealh36k on March 28, 2009 at 4:35 p.m. #107

you are right probably shouldn't of doubted the video that was very Glib Of me....furthermore...lol he could add another hit to that if he finished off with a slice instead of the Drop......I'm waithing for someone..to find a way to combo into the ultra then i would be impressed

Posted by x Who is Alpha on March 28, 2009 at 8:45 p.m. #108

Im not going to try to sound arrogant here but so far from what ive seen im one of the best Vega players, but thats only from what ive seen. Heres my advice, and by the way im not looking for any retalition from this either, I see how everyone takes advice on here when they dont think its right themselves.

As a vet of vega to take on Gief its all about patience, get your pokes in here and there and keep your defense perfect, if you give him an inch he will take a mile and easily stun or heavily damage you, and im serious about easy stun, it only takes two headbutts to stun vega. I use the heavy claw in the air to beat the lariat believe it or not, if you jump ahead of time and position your claw to be right on the center of his body it will be the lariat every single time due the distance you have with that attack, and also on a side note it also beats blanka's electricity everytime. But ya gief is all about patience and anything you can possibley combo whenever you find the moment. I know im being very vague about the combos and thats because in most situations that your in you'll find yourself just at the very tip of the poking distance so only certain combo's will reach.

For facing sagat, pretty much just being cautious always works, never jump unless you have the advantage as in he's been tripped or is flat on the ground. Using the Izuna drop is pretty easy on him too due to his hitbox being enormous. Your ultra is also very useful on him as well since he always uses his projectile in just about every situation. The fierce claw isnt really that useful in the air since he has the insanely prioritized tiger upper cut, but MP+ light Crystal Flash tends to catch Sagat players off gaurd.

That is my advice but if you want a real demonstration you can add me on xbl my gamertag is x Who Is Alpha. I can give you a brief Tutorial on Distancing and other tactics.

Posted by Chompy on March 28, 2009 at 9:27 p.m. #109

@ x Who Is Alpha

thanx for the advice, there is something i need to ask that makes me confused. in one part you said that you used "Heavy claw" and in other you said "The Fierce Claw". witch one is Heavy punch? and what is the other?

Ohh and sure i would add you to xbl so you can show me a move or 2. you learn new stuff every day, i always say. but i need to get xbl first. lol

Posted by Aronnik on March 28, 2009 at 11:14 p.m. #110

@Aegis Neglector

I'm sorry I made you write an essay lol. Was a good read. Your profs and/or mom would be proud. 99/100 (no bibliography)

@Chompy

Fierce claw = heavy claw. I forget which ones specifically, but some fighters use light medium and heavy instead of light medium fierce

@x Who is Alpha

I tried doing fierce claw against blanka's lightning, but it never works. I spent about 15 mins with blanka playing back lightning, and me jumping at him with fierce claw at many different heights. Never worked. Only thing I know against Blankas lightning is Fierce low kick standing a distance away from him, and medium crouched punch (again a little far away, but still tricky to land).

Posted by Phinny on March 28, 2009 at 11:32 p.m. #111

@ Aronnik

You're so mean :P and by claw you mean punch, right? just trying to verify.

@ Aegis Neglector

Aw man you're giving the community too much credit! Dont assume the community hates you just because 2 people go against you in one insignificant little instance! The community <3s you and your halp.

--------------
Also! I was able to land an izuma drop on a Blanka doing electricity, but I havent been able to since. So I do think there are some ways to beat that besides being on the ground all the time.

Posted by x Who Is Alpha on March 29, 2009 at 7:44 a.m. #112

Woops sorry, didnt mean to say claw, guess I use vega a little too much lol

@arronik

The heavy claw beats it. The only situation I would use this tactic though is when someone is attempting to reversal with blanka, it beats his upwards roll most of the time and the electricity everytime if you time it right. If you want a demonstration i'll show ya. Also if your on the ground already a heavily crouch kick will beat it everytime so long as your at an appropriate distance.

Posted by Aegis Neglector on March 29, 2009 at 9:34 a.m. #113

@ Moronnik:

Well, ya know. I had to put those advanced rhetoric classes to good use, otherwise my mommy wouldn't have let me keep taking karate lessons. However, I'm glad you were able to derive some amount of enjoyment from it even though I didn't include full-color pictures to assist in your understanding. In case you didn't catch it, again, that was me using a heiper-bowlee (no bibliography...whatever the hell that means).

Posted by Aegis Neglector on March 29, 2009 at 9:39 a.m. #114

OHHHHHHHHH!!!! Now I've got it!! "No bibliography," like, that's why I only got 99 instead of 100! Ahh, hahahaha! Now THAT was clever, hommie. *Whew* I almost let that gem get past me!

Posted by Chompy on March 29, 2009 at 5:47 p.m. #115

I always use EX-Flying Barcelona Attack on Blanca's lightning, and it always works. but you have to be at exactly 90○ over him.

Posted by Aegis Neglector on March 30, 2009 at 8:50 a.m. #116

Hey, guys, I just discovered something about Vega's EX Barcelona Attack in the corner. I don't know if I'm just regurgitating something that's already been stated prior to this post, but London Dry and I found that outside of ground cross-up shenanigans there is virtually no reason to ever use Vega's claw follow-up. We found that even in the corner you can make the Izuna Drop work if you employ the proper trick. To do this, perform the EX Barcelona Attack, but instead of immediately holding towards your opponent delay the forward input until they have fallen down directly beside Vega. This will cause Vega to "hover" next to the wall giving you ample time to space the throw correctly. When your opponent is next to you THEN hold towards them and press punch. This will keep you from going past them or over them in the air. Hope this helps. :)

Posted by Aegis Neglector on March 30, 2009 at 9:07 a.m. #117

Also, here is another combo that does decent damage with no meter expenditure:

Focus Attack (lvl. 3) -> Cosmic Heel -> HK Scarlett Terror (316 damage)

Of course, using a lvl. 2 or counter-hit Focus Attack will work just as well, but it does significantly less damage.

Posted by Blackdealh36k on March 30, 2009 at 9:03 p.m. #118

@ Aegis Neglector But there is reason too use the claw because if you hold up it hits twice

Posted by Aegis Neglector on March 30, 2009 at 9:31 p.m. #119

I'm telling you guys, that's not a wise choice. Go to training mode and check the damage. It doesn't matter if it hits 27 times; the fact is the Izuna Drop does more damage. lol Ultimately, your goal is to deplete your opponent's health, not to see how flashy you can make your combo look. It doesn't make any sense to do a 2-hit move that does less damage than a 1-hit move.

Posted by Aegis Neglector on March 30, 2009 at 9:36 p.m. #120

EX Barcelona Attack -> Izuna Drop = 200 damage

EX Barcelona Attack -> 2-hit Claw Dive = 190 damage

On top of that, the Izuna Drop will put about 1/4 of a screen away from your opponent. The 2-hit Claw Dive puts you almost an entire screen away from your opponent. I mean, if you really, REALLY just want to use that move, go ahead I guess. It just doesn't seem like that's very smart gameplay, bro.

Posted by Blackdealh36k on March 31, 2009 at 12:10 a.m. #121

ok thats it I gotta Kick Ur Ass with Vega....so the board respects my Authority...I really just like how the extra hit Looks..every right up says vegas not a combo character so it feels goood to do 6 7 and 8 hit combos...doesnt more hit helps make ur apponnent dizzy....

Posted by Aegis Neglector on March 31, 2009 at 12:49 a.m. #122

@ Blackdealh36k: It doesn't matter that it does more stun, IF it does more stun (I haven't checked). Vega's goal is not to stun his opponent -- that's not where his ability lies, nor are you generally capable of a relentless enough offense with him to cause a dizzy. However, if you really want to show me how little I know with Vega, feel free to friend me on XBox Live. My name is Aegis Neglector on there, too. I guess just hit me up some time.

Posted by Blackdealh36k on March 31, 2009 at 9:57 a.m. #123

I respect ur Opinon..u do make Alot Of Sense But im Not Gonna Chase U around Line #65 Alreay proves im a Great Player if u wanna play hit me up..I have Nothing else 2 Prove

Posted by andyfilth on March 31, 2009 at 3:11 p.m. #124

hi all. i've always been a vega main, but haven't really played sf seriously since the super turbo days. lots of good advice on here (thanks!), i just need to sharpen up my skills (or get a joystick - i'm sick of accidentally doing a scarlet terror instead of izuna drop/vice versa).
but it's good to see there are actually other people out there who dig the claw - everyone who ever challenged me on the arcades as a kid was ryu, ken or akuma. their derisive remarks pertaining to his sexual orientation as they whooped me still haunt my waking hours. i'm after some "....revenge!" as vega would say.
anyway, i seem to be having major trouble when i face anyone who is throw happy. someone playing as m.bison (who really wasn't very good, except for his throwing ability) cleaned my clock last night cause i'd block his attack only to get thrown - any advice on how to avoid throws, especially when coupled with a cross up? is back-flipping away the best plan?
and does anyone else think they need to increase vega's attack somewhat? i mean, the guy has a friggin' claw and hardly deals any damage with his punches. it's an outrage.

Posted by ljay103 on March 31, 2009 at 4 p.m. #125

tired of playing ryu/ken/sagat etc?

I KNOW I AM!!!!

try GUILE - PSN: LJAY103

Posted by Stitclink on March 31, 2009 at 6:53 p.m. #126

I need help in challenge mode on number 4 normal the first combo i don't understand when or how i am supposed to charge the rolling crystal flash please some on help!!!!

Posted by andyfilth on March 31, 2009 at 6:58 p.m. #127

Stitclink - is that the jumping heavy kick, standing medium into light crystal flash?

if so, begin charging back as soon as you begin jumping in for the heavy kick.

hope that helps.

Posted by London Dry on April 1, 2009 at 2:35 a.m. #128

@andyfilth

My best advice to avoid throws is simply learn to tech them. Since you already recognize the situations that are causing you to get thrown just start inputting your own throw when you feel that is about to happen. Even better is if you can use Vega's kara throw, then if your opponent whiffs their own throw because of misjudging the distance you end up throwing them.

I wouldn't advise backflipping in that situation since if an opponent can recognize and condition you into backflipping when they make you think a throw is coming then they can just hold off and retaliate against the backflip. Teching throws gives you a neutral reset for the situation.

Posted by ove on April 1, 2009 at 4:56 a.m. #129

@ Stitclink
Just do as andyfilth wrote, but it sure is a pain in the ass to pull that combo off! Comparing this "load-combo" to other characters (e.g. balrog) you have to keep back on the controler for a lot longer period of time. I hit balrogs "load-combo" 9 out of 10 times, but with vega it is the opposit 1 out of 10.. But thankfully the rest of the combos in trail 4 is easier to pull off! =)

@ London Dry
What is a kara throw? I also wonder what a tick throw is? I have seen people use both of these terms in this and other forums but have never seen any explenation of them. These terms aren't even listed in the eventhubs street fighter lexicon.. Thanks for the help!

Posted by Vega dance on April 1, 2009 at 6:28 a.m. #130

I find Vega's basic moves are great to use in general then use the specials when you wanna be a little cheeky.

Oh and his dodging backflip move is fun to use when you wanna get your opponent frustrated, hehe!

Posted by London Dry on April 1, 2009 at 10:15 a.m. #131

@ ove

A kara throw is when you cancel a normal move that scoots your character forward during its early portion on its beginning frames into a throw. This makes the character slide forward slightly right before the throw adding extra range. With Vega, you press standing HK and then hit throw very quickly, almost as if you're hitting them at the same time but not quite. If you watch Vega's normal standing HK you see he pivots a bit on his toe in such a way that the center point of his model is moved slightly forward. When you do the normal HK he ends up pivoting back to the same position but when you cancel it quickly into a throw you get that little pivot forward right into a throw with next to none of the frames of the HK coming out. That's a kara throw. There's actually a solid explanation of it in the advanced section of the third strike guide on this site.

The easiest way to test if you're getting the technique right is to hit normal throw and watch how your character ends up in the same place as when he/she started the animation, then try the kara throw input, if your character moves forward when the throwing animation comes out then you got the kara throw.

The way I perform the kara throw with Vega is to use my ring finger to hit Hk then sort of roll my wrist quickly and use my thumb and index finger to hit throw.

Posted by London Dry on April 1, 2009 at 10:15 a.m. #132

A tick throw on the other hand is when you use a quick attack, usually a low LP or low LK to put your opponent in block stun, then throw on the first frame that they recover. When a character is in block or hit stun the cannot be thrown, not even by command throws. This is why you can't combo in to Zangief's SPD etc. Tick attacks are attacks you count on opponents blocking so they are stuck in block stun and can't retaliate, then time it so on the first frame they recover you can throw them. In the HD Remix section labeled intermediate on the site there is again a solid explanation of tick throws. You can also use a combination of a normally non functioning tick set-up into a kara throw to create a tick throw that wouldn't normally work.

Fortunately Vega is a character that demonstrates this perfectly for both examples. For a regular tick throw set up use two crouching LKs wait a spilt second then throw. You know if you did it too early if the throw whiffs or doesn't come out at all. Too late is harder to tell, in training mode it's a guess, in a match you'll probably get hit with some sort of retaliation move. I suggest practicing doing it to early til you hit the sweet spot in training mode and then take it to real gameplay.

Now for a tick into kara. If you do two close standing LKs with Vega and try to throw it will whiff, this is not a matter of timing, it's because those LKs put you out of Vega's throw range. However, if you apply the kara technique it adds enough range to the throw to make the set-up successful.

Hope that gives you all you need for that, if not consult the guides I referenced here, then try the shroryuken.com wiki or come back to me.

Posted by London Dry on April 1, 2009 at 10:24 a.m. #133

Sorry this is a response to something a way back but:

@ Blackdealh36k

The two hit claw of the flying barcelona does the same stun as the Izuna drop (both 200). Regardless, if Vega has the option of more damage vs. stun you should take the damage every time. He has enough of a hard time dealing damage as it is and that extra 10 points could be the difference between winning with a jab or chip damage on a RCF and losing a match.

Posted by London Dry on April 1, 2009 at 10:29 a.m. #134

Oh and to be thorough, ticks work out of hit stun as well as block stun but there is a "blocking is safe" mentality that you want to capitalize on here. The rule is block low react high and if you block those two low tick kicks you can still be thrown. I should know, despite being fully aware I still fall for it as do many others, hence what makes it a good tactic.

Posted by London Dry on April 1, 2009 at 10:29 a.m. #135

Oh and to be thorough, ticks work out of hit stun as well as block stun but there is a "blocking is safe" mentality that you want to capitalize on here. The rule is block low react high and if you block those two low tick kicks you can still be thrown. I should know, despite being fully aware I still fall for it as do many others, hence what makes it a good tactic.

Posted by London Dry on April 1, 2009 at 10:29 a.m. #136

Sorry for the double post.

Posted by Phinny on April 1, 2009 at 2:17 p.m. #137

Hey I'm having a LOT of trouble beating blanka. I guessed wrong when I thought I'd have a leg up when I could get past his lightning. NOPE! now I worry about all his rolls, his 2 for 1 kicks (like guile's low fierce kick, 'cept its mid for blanka) and his sidestep (or hop =/ ) Totally throws my game off. Got perfected on by some guy.

BTW Blackdealh36k and Aegis, I sent messages to you both on XBL. We gotta fight sometime.

Posted by andyfilth on April 1, 2009 at 4:52 p.m. #138

thanks for the advice London Dry, i'll get practicing on those moves tonight.

@ Phinny - some blanka player wiped the floor with me recently too. i had no idea what to do really, since i've never faced a good blanka player before. the only thing i found worked with any effectiveness was throwing out an occasional ex sky high claw and lots of crouching mp and mk work to avoid his electricity.. and just do the occasional flip to throw him off too.

but like i said, i was a shadow of my former self after that fight, so my advice is probably totally wrong.

Posted by x Who Is Alpha on April 1, 2009 at 8:33 p.m. #139

@ Everyone

Blanka has a clear advantage over Vega, but it doesnt mean you cant win, trust me the only way to win is to poke at the life and catch him anytime he decides to roll at the wrong time. I always beat the upwards rolling ball attack with the Fierce Punch in the air, if IM coming down on the blanka player and I know hes gonna do it I always use the claw ahead of time and it beats it. Grabbing and putting pressure is always a good way to win against blanka, the air grab is definatley a great way to throw blanka off since blanka players tend to be very jumpy.

Posted by BlackDealh36k on April 2, 2009 at 6:06 p.m. #140

Im not gonna lie I used to fear blanka till i went to training mode put it on hard and fought him its all about attacking him from the right angles and knowing how to counter his rolls.....now i win about 3 out of 4 matches but with a really elite blank player its still very tough like "Who is Alpha" Said....Can't except friend request right now .... kind of away from my streetfighter sucks 2 a couple days fropm not playing u lose alot of skills

Posted by x Who Is Alpha on April 3, 2009 at 9:11 a.m. #141

One last word of advice, know if your picking vega you never have an advantage over someone else, your always on equal ground or at a disadvantage, this character takes alot of skill to play and even more skill to master. I havent lost in 2 weeks with Vega so im moving onto a different character for now, but just know that it is possible to be great with him, you just have to put tons of effort, go to training mode and see what beats what, trap grabs are a strong plus with him, most people get easily disoriented against him. You just have to play Sporatic and efficient. For now im going to retire vega for a bit and move onto Gouken, Good luck to everyone, but if anyone wants tips or wants to battle my Vega i'll take requests. Im still going to use him to win the tournaments around my area until I get gouken (I really need the money and so far 150 dollars a week from beating everyone is pretty sweet xD). so ya.. you can reach me on my Gamertag which is x Who Is Alpha or on my youtube channel which is xwhoisalpha, dont mind the tournament videos on there lol most of them were from around when I first got the game and was still figuring stuff out.

Posted by TH3 JoK3R J on April 4, 2009 at 1:10 a.m. #142

Yep that's a nice move going to Gouken
TO EVERYBODY "x Who Is Alpha" is a beast with Gouken trust me i know this through painful experience facing him lol :(
once he hits you get ready for some nasty long combos on u
and you'll just say "COME ON MAN AT LEAST LET ME HIT U ONCE!"
and his Vega is something to FEAR! lol as not trying to
"DICK RIDE" lol as APLha says "POKE POKE POKE"

Posted by ove on April 8, 2009 at 5:40 p.m. #143

Hey guys, I need some help! I've been playing with vega for a while now and is starting to pick up quite a good game I think. But I have problems fighting some certain characters, espacially cammy!

It seems like it is impossible to harm cammy :S no matter what I do she allways has an answere to it! Her low spiral arrow beats borth rolling crystal flash and scarlet terror, her hooligan throw beats both izuna drop and vegas air throw and all of her moves seems to come out way faster than vegas..

I played for a whole hour on the hardest difficulty setting in arcade mode without beating her. I only won 3-4 rounds in total and lost to quite a few perfects. And usualy I win without having to use any continiues at all when I'm playing with my main char balrog!

I'm desperate! What am I supposed to do to beat cammy with vega?! Which moves and tactics am I supposed to use? I'm grateful for all the help I can get!

Posted by andyfilth on April 8, 2009 at 10:21 p.m. #144

@ ove

i hear you on cammy, she can be a massive pain to beat. i find that using the EX sky high claw is usually not a bad idea (if/when you have it).

learning when to use your throws (ground and air) is essential, because she'll get in close to attack you - just be aware she will attempt to throw you as well, so be quick.

there isn't much point in trying to do a focus attack unless you have her already on the ground, because most of her hits hit twice and they come out quick.

i also use lots of LP rolling crystal flashes because they come out quite quick (and at least give some chip damage if she blocks), followed by MP or MK pokes or a kara throw.

another great move is the leaping kick (down forward and HK) because you can juggle with it if you connect.

i think overall the best strategy is not to get too fancy with special moves, just try and poke her to death with crouching/jumping MP and MK, and only use the special moves if you're certain they'll land. she'll punish you with combos if she blocks anything where vega has a recovery time.

hopefully that's of some help for you. all the best!

Posted by I have the power on April 14, 2009 at 5:10 a.m. #145

I find things very random with Vega, the only character that I'm never sure if I'll win with.

Fun to keep the opponent guessing...

Posted by 232 on April 15, 2009 at 10:51 a.m. #146

what vega considered the worst character in the game? He's FAR from that. He's one of the best imo. You can trick and frustrate the hell outta people once you master him. He's easily one of my top favs in the game.

Posted by saikotik on April 16, 2009 at 11:54 a.m. #147

i love using vega, but i get my ass handed to me when im playing guile. i dont have any problems with anyone else, just guile. guile will meet me in the air constantly and air throw me. any tips? im in dire need of help.

Posted by Masked Nobleman on April 16, 2009 at 11:19 p.m. #148

My main strategy when dealing with Guile is a patience game. You need to wait him out. Guile players are defensive, so if you go in full bore you'll end up eating a Flash Kick. He may throw some Sonic Booms to try to lure you into action, just use the short backslash to open up some space between you, or simply jump the projectile.

Eventually he may start getting fed up with you and then you've got him. Punish jump-ins with Scarlet Terrors, and crossup with the Flying Barcelona when you're safe. Save up some of your super bar for the EX Sky High claw to throw in some damage when he tries to nail you with a Sonic Boom. Try to avoid using your Ultra until he's in a situation where he absolutely cannot defend. Punishing a whiffed flash kick or a bad jump is a good idea.

Stick out the fight, you'll make it. =)

Posted by saikotik on April 17, 2009 at 3:26 p.m. #149

@masked nobleman

this guile was offensive to his max. it was very minimal that guile was in turtling position, and he knew when i was going to slide. the guile player is one of my buddies and one day i just want to thrash him hahaha. he's not your average guile player who turtles and spam sonic booms. he gets me with that upside down HK and flash kicks me. an aggressive guile is rare to see and i want to be able to punish him.

Posted by Anonymous on April 18, 2009 at 10:37 p.m. #150

I got owned by a Balrog user, and I am new to using an Xbox 360 controller.

Is there a way to get past 'Rog's rushdown strategy, as well as being able to make use of the controller so that I can have the advantage? I will give my thanks to the person who can tell me.

Posted by yogi on April 21, 2009 at 7:39 a.m. #151

@anonymous

use vega's flash kick like move to counter rog's charge. if you miss you'll at least get away from it, you might trade damage or take priority but remember that rog has an anti-air game so avoid getting in the air, unless you can knock him in the air and perform an izuna drop which is pretty sweet. his crystal roll is sweet. dont abuse vega's slide either. the rushdown strategy shouldn't be a problem. stay against a wall and make him come to you, charge low and do one of his D,U+K moves. or you can wall jump and punish accordingly.

Posted by mike c on April 22, 2009 at 6:56 p.m. #152

i cannot finish vegas hard trial 5 please anyone know how to finish this?4th hit never goes through

Posted by TH3 JoK3R J on April 23, 2009 at 3:54 p.m. #153

@ mike c, As a person who completed vega trials *sniff* lol
when u doing them light kicks it's not about timing its about how fast u press them once u get to the LK's press the hell out of your LK button it worked 4 me : )

And please dont forget to crouch Mp cause i got pass the 2 LK's and got too excited and forgot crouch mp so yea.

Posted by chopper255 on April 27, 2009 at 6:03 p.m. #154

I disagree with vega being defensive minded. His speed and kicks are extremly efective. Always stay on top of the opponent. Open up with a flying claw. Vegas hard double kick is the best in the game. Jump kick then folollow up with the double hard kick. After 2 combos with this the opponent will be going to bloack. This is when Vegas sweep is extremly effective. This is one of the few sweeps that are "all in". Use sparingly but can keep them off balance due to your agressive play. Whenever knocked to ground supplement vegas rolling attack into double kick....pisses people off

Posted by Masked Nobleman on April 28, 2009 at 11:12 a.m. #155

@chopper255

I agree that Vega can definitely have a strong offensive game. The thing is, it depends on who you're dealing with. When facing characters like Sagat, I find that an offensive strategy is much more effective than a defensive one. Lay on the crossups with the Flying Barcelona, keep pressure after knockdowns (I tend to use the Fierce Rolling Crystal Flash. It's pretty effective), and use your EX Sky High Claw when dealing with projectiles, and you can definitely keep the damage coming.

The problem is when you get into fights with characters that are primary defense. Guile can destroy you if you're not paying attention, and Blanka's defense tactics can be nasty!

Posted by y2k_watts on April 29, 2009 at 5:08 p.m. #156

Havent tried Championship mode yet. Are there alot of Blanka players on it. That is one character who always kicks my ass.

Posted by Masked Nobleman on April 30, 2009 at 8:24 a.m. #157

There are a few Blanka players on Championship mode, but since it's a double-blind select, you don't run into as many as you would in Ranked Match.

You usually end up fighting 8,000 Ryus and Kens as a result of them not being able to tell who you're selecting, but as a result, you can learn to take out shoto players pretty consistantly with all that practice.

Posted by VEGA'S CLAW on May 1, 2009 at 7:44 p.m. #158

great info!!!!!!

Posted by saheykid on May 7, 2009 at 2:59 p.m. #159

for the life of me, i cannot seem to hit the combo to remove the mask. i can remove the claw 95% of the time. what's the difference between removing the mask and the claw in terms of buttons pressed?

Posted by saheykid on May 7, 2009 at 3:08 p.m. #160

nvm, got it >_>

Posted by vegamain on May 8, 2009 at 2:15 p.m. #161

cosmic heal beats out blanka ball if you time it right -- just feel like sharing that tidbit for those who have trouble w/blanka

for cammy if she spiral arrows too close to you grab her, otherwise you should wait for her to cannonspike and then punish

Posted by Prototype909 on May 9, 2009 at 7:45 a.m. #162

The main problem with Vega is that where other characters have at times high damage + low priority or low damage + high priority, Vega has both.

His moves do very little damage, he almost always trades on special attacks or will get overridden entirely. His claw comes off easier than ever before and now his mask can come off (Pretty much means you lose if you get hit by a super or an ultra once it comes off). Not to mention Vega's best advantage in past games was his speed, SF IV slowed down the game itself a WHOLE lot and Vega is worse off because of it (Easier to predict what he's doing when he isn't traveling across the screen at 150mph).

Then there's his Ultra which will hardly ever get any use against higher skilled players due to its limited punishing uses (Even then, that strange 70% angle it goes at makes it miss if they aren't PERFECTLY the right/distance height away. A straight line across the screen would've been better).

So Capcom could fix Vega in three different ways. Make his mask/claw harder to come off (So that he isn't completely helpess on offense without his claw or even worse than before on defense without his mask), give him more priority (So he can actually get people off of him when he gets trapped in the corner), or raise his damage output (So that he can make up for his low priority specials).

Posted by Masked Nobleman on May 9, 2009 at 8:29 a.m. #163

I agree with you completely regarding Vega's priority. It needs a buff to give him a viable way to get out of cornering.

His ultra on the other hand, I have no problems with. I tend to use it defensively, mostly for punishing jumpers or other whiffed attacks. His attacks could stand to do a LITTLE more damage, but it's not to the point that it bothers me.

Posted by Prototype909 on May 9, 2009 at 8:35 p.m. #164

The Ultra thing is more of a pet peeve for me if anything. I just tend to try and be a bit too flash at times and it gets me killed.

Posted by andyfilth on May 10, 2009 at 11:46 p.m. #165

i agree with Prototype909 - my win rate would be vastly improved if vega had any one of those improvements. i pick him probably 90% of the time online, and have around a 46% win rate - but i refuse to change characters. vega is just too awesome, and i'll continue using him until i consistently bust skulls.

i've lost count of the amount of times i've lost because i *just* missed someone with the ultra - you have to be 100% spot on with it. it could stand to have a touch more range.

and unless you're stuck in a corner and jump off the wall you're up against, or they're in the process of jumping at precisely the correct angle, they have way too much time to react. "don't mind me sir, just stand right there and enjoy a cup of tea while i jump onto this wall, do my animation that indicates an ultra is coming, then fly the whole way back across the screen and hit you with it".

Posted by OutrunZeroX7X on May 11, 2009 at 5:40 a.m. #166

vega is a counter character mainly the ultra is for dumb ppl that spam the dragon punch moves basic vega play is to charge while in the air (soon as u jump and even while your doing ur dash claw or the izuna u can be charging what ever charge move) If u want to play a really good vega player play my boi Xaldin32 XBOX LIVE ONLY.

Posted by DSM_GSX_1997 on May 12, 2009 at 11:42 a.m. #167

just a question but i've been playine around in trial.... it took me about 2 hours but i worked the timing down so well that i was able to time an ex/hk scarlet terror into bloody high claw... sorta. pausing at the moment of impact i should definately connect but it's not connecting. it goes right through. i tried modifying it to a lk scarlet terror and i can just ALMOST get it but there isnt enough height on the scarlet terror (even with my back against the wall or with opponent's back against wall). is scarlet terror the only way to connect it? apparently you can only do a 1 hit move knocking them into the are if you're going to connect with a 2nd hit. i tried modifying it again by setting computer to jump but for some reason i end up doing an ex izuna drop every time. i cant figure out why i cant bloody high claw after but if someone could test something out to see if it works let me know. my ps3 screen name is the one above if you want to spar or whatever. sorry for the semi crappy wording i'm sorta tired XD

Posted by andyfilth on May 12, 2009 at 6:46 p.m. #168

i'm sure most people here have probably figured this out by now, but for any of you who might be struggling against seth on hardest difficulty, it's made a lot easier if you use vega's LP rolling crystal flash regularly. at the start of the round, jump in and either throw seth if he jumps, or combo him if he throws out one of his dhalsim style punches (this is pretty much how he starts every round). stay out of reach while he is down, but if you're confident with your timing, charge your MP+MK and launch into another combo.

when he's on the floor, make sure you're just out of reach of his pile driver. crouch block as he attacks you (high block if he leaps at you off the wall), and use an LP rolling crystal flash any time there's a gap in his attacks - it's armour breaking so his EX moves can't get you.

if seth does get you on the ground, don't be tempted to try and hit him with a wake up - he'll nail you every time unless you can perform an ultra. back flip away to avoid his spinning pile driver, and continue with the same strategy. just keep an eye on when his ultra is charged - he can throw it out the instant you're open, and unless you're blocking low it will hit you.

i can beat seth every time using this - and although it won't win many style points, neither does he with all his cheap moves :P

Posted by shadow050 on May 13, 2009 at 7:48 a.m. #169

hey... just thought, a good "get off me' attack for vega might be the ex rolling claw move. i might hvae to test it outfirst though. just thought it might have a chance since i know you can bypass some attacks with it (such as fireballs)

Posted by shadow050 on May 13, 2009 at 8 a.m. #170

the hardest thing i have with playing as vega is remembering to "BE CHEAP" lol. sure, my moves failed to come out at times andthat's frustrating... but if i simply remember to fight dirty as all possible, i'd win a lot more lol.

i notice when i typically lose, i fought against someone who was fighting more cheaply than i was lol. such as ken/ryu players who just love to hop over me with a med. kick (to try to hit the back of my head), throw a ton of little jabs, and if i'm blocking the grab me... almost everytime lol. or what's worse, and mroe simple... walking towards me as just trying to grab me each time -_-

rule of thumb for fighting with vega... BE CHEAP! he is a ninja! ninjas have no need for honor and such so being cheap as hell with him is "OK" :-)

Posted by andyfilth on May 13, 2009 at 6:35 p.m. #171

@ shadow050 - the ex rolling claw move isn't so good as a get off me move because of the really slow start up rate, which leaves you open to attack for at least 20 frames.

but i agree with the cheap tactics - any online player will be as cheap as possible if it earns them a win (zangief's spinning lariat = ARGH). and while i consider excessive throwing to be pretty poor form, it is a legitimate move, and all is fair in love and street fighter.

Posted by Masked Nobleman on May 14, 2009 at 10:09 a.m. #172

If a throw is the move to use in a given situation, you should go for it, I don't think that too much is cheap in Street Fighter (although some moves are pushing it). But it's true, people will fight their hardest to make sure they don't lose online, especially in a championship mode final match. So you have to make sure to lay it all out there as well.

Posted by shadow050 on May 22, 2009 at 9:24 a.m. #173

well... anyone can find me on the PS3 version of SF4, under the same name you see here "shadow050"

here's another tip if people haven't already figured it out...
until like, last week, i normally did the wall dive using the weak kick button. i did itusing that one because it was the most convenient button to press... but i have found the error of my ways.

there are a couple of reasons:
1) i always wondered why it was SOOOO hard to grab (the izuna drop) people with the move... using the weak kick button, it's apparently the hardest to execute the grab with... when i use the strong kick, i noticed it was MUCH EASIER to execute the grabs... it seems to have a wider range in which it can get the enemy

2) even when you miss the grab, and instead execute the striking attack he does (where he spreads his arms) it has a higher hit rate. my PROOF of this is the fact that i have successful hit zangeif with this attack even when he does that annoying a$$ spinning lariat move. BUT keep in mind it's not absolute, and there are times when i got hit only. but like i said, the hit rate is higher, and sometimes only land a hit, sometimes we both got hit, and sometime only i got hit when starting the wall dive move with the strong kick... BUT... each and everytime i do the move with the weak kick ONLY i end up getting hit.

3) the attacks dealt from starting the wall dive with the strong kick DO MORE DAMAGE. it's not at all about which punch button you press (it seems). it's all about which kick button you begin the move with.

hope this helps some people.
oh... and don't forget to fight cheap! lol.

lastly, has anyone found a good use for vega's down-forward medium kick attack (the one where he does a little hop, and drops his heel on the opponent)? i think it'd be SO useful if it could hit enemies doing crouching blocks, but i don't think it does.

Posted by Masked Nobleman on May 22, 2009 at 1:23 p.m. #174

Unfortunately the 'Piece of Mercury' (df+mk) is pretty much useless. It should be an overhead, but it's not, and it's execution and range are pretty poor. You're better off using the Cosmic Heel as a command normal.

The Piece of Mercury used to be his standing Roundhouse Kick in Street Fighter Alpha 3, but it wasn't looked upon favorably so they went back to his original SFII Roundhouse animation when he appeared in Capcom Vs. SNK.

Posted by Masked Nobleman on May 22, 2009 at 1:24 p.m. #175

*execution time

Posted by Yuske Urameshi9 on May 22, 2009 at 7:45 p.m. #176

The piece of mercury happens to be a great move if you are someone who has excellent reflexes and can predict a cross up; not only will you avoid the attack but you can usually do a hk and punish the crap out of most opponents for good damage (or an even quicker mk if you know they will immediately go on the offensive.) Even if you decide not to attack afterwards it wlll put you far away enough not to have your shield broken if you focus cancel the hell away from attacks like shoryuken

if you happen to love combos you could hold down the diagonal command for the kick to start a charge for an ex barcelona if you catch them with a crouched medium punch first (if not, you will be crouch blocking from the other side,) very useful for us vega players!!!

Another simple and effective use for the piece of mercury is to get a little closer to some oponents after a failed super move so you can kara throw them before they have a chance to tick throw you with low attacks. Yes the cosmic heel is the best in most situations but you tend to grab with a higher succession rate with POM because it shakes players more for some reason ::shrug::

XBL gamertag is the same as my name in case anyone wants to spar and share other ideas

training mode is golder, period

Posted by Yuske Urameshi9 on May 22, 2009 at 7:48 p.m. #177

which is like golden but a typo

Posted by vega bones on May 26, 2009 at 10:05 a.m. #178

Coule any1 tell em about kara throws? I am new to street fighter, and i cant seem to get it to work, how is the move timed? I'd really appreciate any help!

Posted by sly vega on May 27, 2009 at 9:53 a.m. #179

does any one know how to do the two hit air slash when you do the ex flying barcelona.. ive done it a couple of times, but I cant seem to do it on command.. help anyone..

btw taken down almost all of the ken, ryu, sagats ive faced with vega.. i have trouble with blanka. It seems on the G2 level on championship mode, like a third of the players use him and its hard for me to counter what they do.. if anyone can help me out with this also, it would be much apreciated

im on xbox live with the gamer tag "Sly Stall0WNED" (the 0 is a zero not a capitalized O)

Posted by sly vega on May 29, 2009 at 11:14 a.m. #180

if anyone wants to share vega strategies on xbox live.. hit me up.. my gamer tag is in the previous post

Posted by vega bones on May 30, 2009 at 11:46 a.m. #181

#181 sly vega
I think that this move seems to come out if you r directly above the opponent, litterally bang ontop of their head, and press punch without any directions while keying punch. This generally seems to work.

Posted by will on May 31, 2009 at 6:15 p.m. #182

I am having a small problem when fighting zangief. How do you react to someone that spams the spinning pile driver? I mean once he catches me he times it so that he is right on me when I wakeup and he gets me again. You can't get up quickly after a grab so i'm not quite sure what to do once I am trapped in the first one.

Posted by Joe Somebody on June 1, 2009 at 5:05 p.m. #183

#will

Use the backflips

Posted by at@ on June 9, 2009 at 2:54 a.m. #184

Does anybody know some good Anti Air moves beside the High Kick, and Scarlet Terror? Also what are some good wake up moves for vega besides scarlet terror?

Posted by Yuske Urameshi9 on June 10, 2009 at 4:44 p.m. #185

To clear the air, yes the double hit on the barcelona attack is performed by pressing the punch button with no direction held. As for a good anti air attack, i feel like the standing medium kick does the trick quite well when the opponent is not too deep. As for the giefs who spam SPD, the crouching medium punch is cancelable so a good tactic to set yourself for combos and distance is to cancel crouching mp with a single backflip, that way if he tries to grab after a poke he leaves himself open for any number of quick strikes: ex barcelona, piece of mercury, lp crystal flash etc.

Posted by Jink on June 16, 2009 at 7:30 p.m. #186

dfHK owns all.

Posted by x Who Is Alpha on June 17, 2009 at 5:03 p.m. #187

check out my Youtube account youtube.com/xwhoisalpha for Vega Videos and championship matches.

Posted by Jason M on June 18, 2009 at 7:22 a.m. #188

I'm stuck on the 4th trial with Vega. Do I need the turbo button on the 6 button style contoller to pull this off? I've tried everything and I just can't hit the crystal flash after the mk.... I start charging as soon as I jump in for the hk, hit the mk and the 3rd hit NEVER lands? Any advice would be welcome. JM

Posted by Kage on June 21, 2009 at 1:13 a.m. #189

Anyone have any advice for Vega during wake-up to counter a jump in cross-over attack? I play an ok Vega, but no idea what works well besides blocking.

Posted by Yuske Urameshi9 on June 22, 2009 at 12:59 p.m. #190

if you expect the cross-up then charge the opposite direction for a crimson kick

Posted by Valter on June 24, 2009 at 5:27 p.m. #191

How do you land his 4 hit claw attack during the super? Do you have to time the punch button early? I'm trying to do it instead of the Izuna Drop version.

GT: Valter5118

Posted by haywood on June 24, 2009 at 11:33 p.m. #192

i love vega. i thought he was a cheap pansy until i learned some of his intricacies. only prblm i have is doing his ultra consistently.

Posted by haywood on June 24, 2009 at 11:37 p.m. #193

dude,vegas ex kick flip is great 4 weakup, just use ex version. sometimes i whiff tho.

Posted by London Dry on June 28, 2009 at 7:03 a.m. #194

There is never any reason to do the multi-hit version of flying barcelona or the super, they do less damage and stun plus can be blocked. Just grab.

Posted by London Dry on June 28, 2009 at 7:13 a.m. #195

Ex flip kick is OK for wake-up but it comes out at the same speed as HK and still has no invulnerability so it will get beaten by meaty attacks. The biggest perk is the extra damage it does especially if you catch someone with the counter hit, but given the 0 invulnerability your opponent pretty much has to make a miscalculation for that to happen.

Posted by London Dry on June 28, 2009 at 7:32 a.m. #196

Looking back I may be wrong about the lesser stun of the multi-hit claw but at best it's only equal and the damage is still worse. If you're close enough to chip them with that move then you're already close enough to throw so there's no reason to risk the chip not killing them when you can just get the unblockable throw. Again, in short, just grab.

Posted by just anothda guy on July 2, 2009 at 12:03 a.m. #197

hmmm, thats funny, hes one of the funner characters to play, and i own with him, ahahah, i can play all characters really good and perform there combos flawlessly, and id say that if you use him right, vega can be quite annoying, but that goes for everyone, i like using dhalsim, just because i always win and just because hes anoyin as hell...

Posted by any tips? on July 2, 2009 at 8:58 p.m. #198

any good mix-ups for throws or kara-throws beside down-forward (HK or MK) into a throw? One thing I've tried is jumping HP, standing HP, crouching MP etc., mixed with jumping HP, standing LK (the knee) then throw. Trouble is it doesn't seem to go off as smoothly as I've seen Cammy's, Ryu's or Rufus's close combat throw mix-up.

Posted by kage on July 3, 2009 at 1:43 p.m. #199

I think u just need to work on the timing more for mixing in throws. One thing you can also try is focus attack 2/3 --> dash --> combo or throw.

Posted by Aegis Neglector on July 4, 2009 at 9:56 a.m. #200

I would just like to announce my ownage of Blackdealh36k yesterday, who rage-quitted halfway through the second round.

He then went on to send me a message saying "my power went. that was close, let's go again sometime" in an attempt to save face.

All i can say is:Blackdealh36k, you tried, and failed...as i expected.

I particularly enjoyed the way he tried a random ultra and quit just as it was blocked.

Posted by Dave on July 4, 2009 at 9:40 p.m. #201

Vega's ultra is pretty much uselessin high levels of play. Its great against fireball spammers, but wont go far in the long run.

Vega's biggest problem is lack of priority. you can crouching light punch him out of a reversal ex-scarlett terror for crying out loud.

Needless to say, if a decent rufus of balrog gets him in a corner, expect to lose at least a third of your energy before escaping...if you can.

Vega is a terrible offensive character, I always play a ranged game with him. Crouching medium punch and jumping fierce punch are my best friends

Posted by andyfilth on July 6, 2009 at 9:24 p.m. #202

@ Aegis Neglector - haha! you never know though.. my connection lags something fierce at times - i think mostly against people in the U.S. (could be wrong though) - possibly cause i'm in australia and our internet capabilities are famously slow.
there have been several fights where i've tried to do wall dives and it was lagging so bad the claw dive wouldn't come out, despite me hitting the punch button as soon as i left a wall. or an animation would skip dozens of frames and the two characters would reappear in completely different positions. extremely annoying.
i'm sure some people have thought i was rage quitting, when in actual fact the game was just unplayable due to lag. then again he did claim a power outage which is dubious at best.

Posted by kage on July 6, 2009 at 9:59 p.m. #203

@ andyfilth and Aegis Neglector

a power outage isn't dubious! That's what happens when u push the power button in the middle of a fight! :D

Posted by kasp3r on July 7, 2009 at 1:35 p.m. #204

alot of people say Vega is the worst character. he is by far one of the most overpowered characters in SF 4.

Posted by andyfilth on July 7, 2009 at 8:33 p.m. #205

@ kasp3r - what makes you say that? with the difficulty of executing decent combos, weak attacks, low defensive rating and low priority moves, i don't really see how he could be considered overpowered at all.. unless you know something we don't?
in my opinion his only major advantage is being able to backflip away when in danger. i feel very exposed when using any other character because i don't have that ability!

Posted by noob on July 9, 2009 at 9:26 a.m. #206

Does Vega have any multi-hit combos like Ryu's or Akuma's >10 range?

Posted by Kasp3r on July 10, 2009 at 3:11 a.m. #207

Vega's crossover attacks are lethal. you bypass most defences and your opponent never knows if your gonna land behind or infront.

my main is Guile, and my friends is Vega. He annihilates absolutely everyone he plays. I guess Vega needs to be in the right hands.

Posted by London Dry on July 12, 2009 at 4:59 a.m. #208

@ noob: Vega has an 11-hit combo, but it's debatable whether it's worth doing or not due to the fact that costs 3/4 super meter. He's not really a large hit number combo character.

@Kasp3r: Guile's crouching fierce should almost completely nullify Vega's flying barcelona cross-up game. Just about anybody that has a crouching fierce that goes straight up will beat the wall dive, especially Sakura. It's such a telegraphed move in that you should be able to take it out on reaction.

Posted by noob on July 13, 2009 at 5:50 p.m. #209

Thanx London!

Just saw that 11-hit combo on youtube. Still working on replicating that on command. don't think i'll ever get it.

A bunch of new SF4 Vega vids on youtube from the PC/Windows players! Some cool stuff. Check out: 1:17 into this video: http://www.youtube.com/user/spartasan...

Anyone able to replicate the cr lp, cr lk link into a lp rolling crystal flash? Never saw that before and can't seem to do it on my xbox.

Posted by jeremie on July 21, 2009 at 2:16 p.m. #210

does anyone know how to get out of corner traps....i seem to lose when i get stuck in the corner

Posted by noob on July 21, 2009 at 6:56 p.m. #211

@ jeremie

i'm assuming you mean getting up from being knocked down ---
unfortunately vega doesn't have any good anti-air options when getting up. The Scarlet terror (even the EX) get's stuffed by most attacks, and is best used when the attacker is in the air in _front_ (not directly above). your best bet is to hope for a mis-timed jump and then use the EX Scarlet Terror, or block and be prepared to counter-throw or block.

Don't forget that you can wall-jump out of the corner (normal wall jump - not the charge izuna) if you're already standing and have some breathing room to do so.

Posted by jeremie on July 22, 2009 at 2:56 p.m. #212

@ noob

thanks alot....ill be sure to remember that for when i next play online

Posted by kage on July 23, 2009 at 8:35 a.m. #213

@ noob #211

Go through Vega's hard trials - one of those (I think #2) links a cr lp into a cr lk. It's definitely possible - you just have to figure out the timing

Posted by y2k-watts on July 23, 2009 at 4:26 p.m. #214

How do you do his double flip kick? I can do the LK to EX one but how about the scarlet terror juggle without EX?

Posted by Kage on July 23, 2009 at 4:59 p.m. #215

@ .#216
the Scarlett terror will juggle if u get one hit on an airborne opponent with a med or hard ST. Immediately follow with another med or hard ST although the timing for this is somewhat tricky. I've had better luck with the EX ST for the second hit.

Posted by y2k-watts on July 24, 2009 at 12:30 p.m. #216

@kage yeah I was trying this on training mode with having Ryu jump in roundhouse and couldn't get the 2nd scarlet terror to link after i antiair ST the 1st one. Maybe character specific? Need to test more.

Posted by shannaro!!! on July 25, 2009 at 1:52 p.m. #217

I was able to create the legengary paper rose (origami), and hell yeah it was tough! After tons of effort, the completed rose was absolutely beautiful. I thought about Vega's Bloody High Claw. As the enemy gets hit, rose petals come out instead of blood. Real pretty but its probably one of the weaker Ultras in the game.

Posted by jibbs on July 26, 2009 at 1:29 a.m. #218

i cant do hard trial 1...firstly how fast do i have to input the cr.med punch after the cr.light punch? i try and spam the two after the jmp.high punch but sometimes it doesn't connect...also the light rolling claw is kinda hard to pull of after all that...any tips?

Posted by London Dry on July 26, 2009 at 9:59 p.m. #219

I haven't bothered with the trials in a long time, but I have a couple ideas where you could be going wrong. First of all you said "spam" for the c.LP to c.MP; it's a link you can't do that, ever. Links require you to precisely wait for the recovery of the first move before initiating the second. Hit c.LP wait for it to come most of the way back then hit c.MP. If you're not even getting the j.HP to c.Lp then you need to wait longer in the jump before hitting HP. To get the roll you should be holding charge downback as soon as you jump, the rolls have longer charge times than his other specials by about 15 frames so you need that extra time right from the beginning.

Posted by jibbs on July 28, 2009 at 10:53 p.m. #220

oh so "link" is what i've been missing...ahhh...thanks

well with vega the trial moves isn't really practical in real fights...so no reason to do them really. Well if you want the sig and icon...but having a vega sig/icon isn't really very good as ppl will counter pick you most of the time...

also a little noob to noobs tip: I use the barcelona/izuna the moment the guy opponent stands with some cross up action...and I just keep doing that until he/she does something about it...so far this tactic has got me as far at g2-e and 2000bp..

Posted by Hova 13 on August 2, 2009 at 9:17 a.m. #221

how do u that double punch after Flying Barcelona Attack? its like a double hit instead of just that 1 punch button during the attack

Posted by jeremie on August 2, 2009 at 10:49 a.m. #222

@ Hova 13

do you mean during the flying barcelona attack? or when vega is on the ground?

Posted by London Dry on August 2, 2009 at 12:05 p.m. #223

@ Hova 13

This has been covered several times earlier in the thread but I'll repeat it. If you are in close enough range to land the Izuna drop throw but don't press a direction and punch button, just a punch, Vega will do the multi hit claw attack. I've advised several people against using it because it does less damage than the throw and you run the risk of being blocked. If you're close enough to land the throw, just throw. It's basically another wasted move given to Vega like throwing off the claw and mask intentionally. The same rule applies for doing the multi-hit super instead of the throw version, the throw is better in every way.

Posted by Hova 13 on August 2, 2009 at 9:40 p.m. #224

i still cant do it...just a punch does not do the multi hit for me...any video u can suggest or do u have xbox live...if u do add II YaMZ II or H o V A XIII

Posted by London Dry on August 2, 2009 at 10:32 p.m. #225

It's important to be right overhead, just like if you were going for the throw. The animation is basically getting a hit when Vega starts opening his arms and then spreads them like normal. So you have to be very close, right on top of the character's head. I suggest trying it on a larger character like Zangief or Sagat.

I'm not going to suggest a video because more important than showing you how to do that move is telling you NOT to use it. It adds zero value to Vega's gameplay, not even for chip damage because if you are close enough to get the multi hit claw for chip you are close enought to throw for guaranteed unblockable full damage. That's all the help I'm going to give since there's really no purpose in you learning this move except to say that you can do it.

Just please take my advice and drop this multi hit move altogether and never use it in a match, maybe for a combo video, but not a match. It makes no sense.

Posted by Oliver on August 3, 2009 at 11:23 a.m. #226

Vega doesn't suck. And he isn't that hard to use. It's about HOW you play. Somebody who has played Ryu thousands of times is going to find him hard. I have beaten a rated 3000 Sagat with him even though my rating is much lower.

Posted by London Dry on August 3, 2009 at 3:41 p.m. #227

Ok Oliver who were you actually responding to with your "Vega doesn't suck" comment ? The simple fact of the matter is that Vega is one of the worst characters in SF IV for all the reasons people have used above.

People need to stop using the argument that it's about HOW you play the character that makes them good. Of course it is, every character in every fighting game is about HOW you play them. If you play Sagat like an idiot you will lose, but Sagat's tools are better than Vega's. There's no comparison there. Tier lists are in the end ranking a character's tools and Vega has some of the worst in key areas, like on wake-up.

Also I see a lot of this BP rating referencing to say how good people/their opponents are. That needs to stop, Playing online with this game is pretty much unbearable to the point where my tournament going friends and I refuse to play it. Links get dropped, back dashing and cross up counter timing gets lost. This game is meant to be played in person, the fact that there are such things as online/ lag tactics proves that. BP is not a good indicator of skill. Go take a look on SRK and see how often people reference battle points.

Could we please keep the thread filled with useful information rather than unfounded arguments like this post. Honestly if this keeps up I'm going to quit posting here.

Posted by har on August 3, 2009 at 4:42 p.m. #228

Well London, why don't you just go find some leet board where the kewlz hang out. I can't believe I read that many words just to hear "Vega does too suck." Nice contribution kid.

Posted by London Dry on August 3, 2009 at 5:35 p.m. #229

If you want contributions, take a look back where I break down the damage/ juggle potential of Vega's flip kicks in post 61, detail character specific combos in post 67, explain tick and kara throws in posts 131 and 132 and teach people how and why not to do the multi-hit flying barcelona attack multiple times. Compare that to the multiple people making unfounded "in fact Vega is one of the best" arguments or asking how to do trials when there's a separate trial thread. I've contributed plenty of useful information to this thread about how to use and overcome Vega's shortcomings while all you did was take a stab at provoking me and make a useless comment and cause me to reply making yet another informationless post, Since my help is unappreciated I'll move on.

Posted by Hova 13 on August 4, 2009 at 1:36 p.m. #230

who cares who sucks n who doesnt....i still can not do the multi hit claw...dats all i want to kno...n u said hit him as close as u can...well i did like a thousand times n vega only does 1 claw...im sure thats not the way or i just fkn suck

Posted by Th3 JoK3R J on August 4, 2009 at 1:59 p.m. #231

OMG didn't "London" already tell you it's useless but
no your still trying to freaking do it.
It's like trying to stop you from kissing the most beautiful girl in the world but he keep telling you that,that girl have Aids it wouldn't do you any good kissing her.
You get what im saying.
give up trying to kiss that girl= stop trying the multi hit thing.

Posted by andyfilth on August 4, 2009 at 3:35 p.m. #232

@ Hova 13

to do the double hit, you do the EX wall jump (has to be the EX one - don't think that has been mentioned to you yet), and if you miss them as you go to the wall (if you hit them while going to the wall you can't do it, cause they're in the air), maneouver so you're going to land right on top of their head. then it's just a matter of letting go of the joystick and pressing punch as you're right above their head.

hope that helps. and relax everyone, we're all here to enjoy the game and get as much out of it as we can. people are entitled to ask questions/give opinions.

Posted by Th3 JoK3R J on August 4, 2009 at 4:53 p.m. #233

@ andyfilth
Yes you are rite i should have explained it to him when i was writing i came back here to do it
but you beat me to it.

Posted by hova 13 on August 4, 2009 at 6:33 p.m. #234

@ andyfilth
Thanks alot...that was to easy

@Th3 Jok3R
go f*k urself n get off london's dick u stupid bitch n u would mention a girl with aids on a sf4 site...(fagget)

to those who say the move is useless well i did pay 60 bucks for the game i do play with vega so i would like to know his evry move dumb f*ks...n i wanted to kno the move bcus sometimes i would do the barcelona attack 1 claw n who im up against would do a focus n stun me...but with the double claw it would stop his focus!!!

andy thanks again

Posted by Burn Your Ego on August 4, 2009 at 10:12 p.m. #235

Throw beats focus everytime!!!!! If you're in the range for the double claw you can throw!!!!It still does more damage and gets the knockdown!!!! Better in every way!!!!
EX flying barcelona should generally be used in combo or at minimum hit on the way up off a punish to set up a juggle state and then finish with a throw. It's a waste of meter to do it in the open. If you're blocked or whiff when attempting to punish and are still trying to land a hit you should still be going for the throw or at least cross up the single claw so they focus the wrong way and then free punish for you.

Posted by Th3 JoK3R J on August 5, 2009 at 12:21 a.m. #236

You feel better hova 13 :D
I was using a that sentence as a example if you was reading.
Ok im a dick rider for agreeing with "london"???
I absolutely really want to know if im still a dick rider
for agreeing with "Andyfilth"? : ) please tell me
and to think i was going to come back to tell you
the same information "Andyfilth" told you.

Oh and im also stupid for knowing how to multi hit with the Flying Barcelona Attack but you didn't : )
I play vega too i wouldn't want to use up a ex bar to multi hit a person "to get away if he focus n stun me" but i would highly recommend ex Flying Barcelona Attack towards the opponent for a easy izuna drop. thnx for reading~JoK3R J

Posted by Th3 JoK3R J on August 5, 2009 at 12:33 p.m. #237

lets see if this works http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73wovB... Vega Guide (Claw Tutorial)

Posted by Catalyst on August 5, 2009 at 6:24 p.m. #238

@Th3 JoK3R J

Very nice video. I've made a note to revisit this guide soon and add in your video to the section. Thanks for submitting this.

Posted by Th3 JoK3R J on August 5, 2009 at 7:44 p.m. #239

@Catalyst
Oh i am not the owner of that vid i take no credit of making it.And your welcome i wanted to show the vid to "hova 13"
for a better guide for Vega.

Posted by har on August 7, 2009 at 6:06 p.m. #240

Bye bye London Dry!

-Vega User

Posted by Th3 JoK3R J on August 7, 2009 at 10:14 p.m. #241

@har
Why are you saying bye to him just curious
did you beat or something else?

Posted by Th3 JoK3R J on August 7, 2009 at 10:15 p.m. #242

"Beat him"

Posted by Random Claw User on August 12, 2009 at 8:06 p.m. #243

Hey ppl. Found a few combos/tricks with Vega that I want to share with the community. I'll list them.

1) Crouching mk -> crouching hp - Nice, quick link that does good dmg/stun.

2) Jumping hk -> close standing fp -> heavy crystal rolling flash - only combo I've found that actually uses a heavy crf. You have to cancel after the first fp hit. Also, you can cancel the crf into his super, making it much easier to land.

3) close standing hp -> standing hk - good dmg/stun. I don't think it works in the corner though. Still testing it.

4) standing far lk * 2 -> crouching mp - probably Vega's safest poke combo, since his lk works like most characters' lp and has great range. You can probably cancel the mp into an ex barcelona or something, but I haven't tried that out.

5) crouching mk -> crouching lp -> crouching mp -> special

I'll try to post more at a later date if it helps anybody. Also, a few general tips.

1) You can cancel Vega's slower pokes into his short back flip, making them more difficult to punish. Also, those back flips allow you to charge a special move.

2) IMO, cosmic heel -> heavy scarlet terror is always a better choice than cosmic heel -> ex barcelona. Heavy scarlet does slightly less dmg than ex barcelona and charges guage. Also, the izuna drop may put u at a bad field position if you're not careful.

Posted by Random Claw User on August 12, 2009 at 8:13 p.m. #244

-_- Didn't finish the last portion.

Cosmic Heel -> Slide is also a good choice if you can't manage to hit the heavy scarlet after.

3) Ex scarlet terror is safe from moves in front of Vega, but not from low attacks/cross ups.

4) Focus saving counts towards your equipment loss, so be careful with it.

5) IMO, Vega's straight kick pokes are better than his claw pokes, with the exception of his crouching claw pokes. They usually come out faster, have the same/greater range and are safer.

Sorry if some of this information has been posted before.

Posted by Random Claw User on August 13, 2009 at 1:12 a.m. #245

A few more combos.

6) standing lk * 2 -> standing hk

7) standing lk -> crouching lp -> crouching mp -> special

8) crouching lp *3 -> standing hk

For some reason, close hp -> standing hk and standing lk -> standing hk doesn't work on all characters (Works on all tall characters though). You could just trade out the former for combo 8).

Most of these allow charge without spending too much time pinned to one spot, making it harder for the opponent to pressure you.

Also, can somebody confirm whether remove claw/remove mask resets the hit count for equipment removal? If yes, then those could be useful if you have some space (especially remove claw_.

Posted by ioannis86 on August 16, 2009 at 12:03 p.m. #246

Did they remove the fake wall dive from turbo hd remix?

Posted by Th3 JoK3R J on August 16, 2009 at 3:01 p.m. #247

@ioannis86
No you have full control of the FBA.You can't simply press a kick button to stay where you are,just keep the direction your going backwards.

Posted by andyfilth on August 16, 2009 at 11:54 p.m. #248

if anyone would like a game sometime, i am on psn under andyfilth. i'm probably not up to the same level as some of you guys, but i don't mind a challenge.

i don't ever rage quit, but as i've detailed before, i have pretty annoying issues with lag from time to time which renders the game unplayable (does anyone else get this? seems to happen to me an awful lot). i had to quit my first g2e tournament final because of it last night - and i was winning!! against ZANGIEF!! lost over 20,000CP :(

so if you notice i start jumping around doing really weird stuff and then i quit, that would be why. my quit rate is at like 5% just because of this reason.

i've noticed i never seem to lag against other people in australia though - so if you're an aussie, let's have some rounds sometime.

Posted by Jabes on August 18, 2009 at 12:55 a.m. #249

Does anyone have anytips on how to do cosmic heel-> heavy scarlet terror? i really need to learn it but it is so hard to do!

Posted by VegaNewb on August 18, 2009 at 2:08 p.m. #250

I started to main Vega a month ago everything goes well untill im cornered and get beaten. How do i escape when im cornered, shotos and chun li are a pain in the ass in the corner :S. Need advice pls =)

Posted by Jabes on August 18, 2009 at 7:07 p.m. #251

when cornered
btw im still relatively new to vega but here's things that i use
1. backflip kkk
2. wall jump away
3. ultra if u can
4. ex fba away
5. scarlet terror

Posted by noob on August 18, 2009 at 8:01 p.m. #252

Hi, as a fellow noob this is what kinda works for me.

(1) Everything Jabes mentioned above
(2) FADC
(3) Back dash
(4) Standing HK - sometimes catches people unwares.

Posted by Kage on August 18, 2009 at 10:25 p.m. #253

It's all about not panicking when you're in the corner. A lot of times it boils down do whether your opponents going to throw or do an armor-breaking attack. Really have a tough time with shoto's/cammy with that mix-up.

What I did for awhile was at the start of the round - purposefully back into a corner and then try to get out. Helps to keep your head cool when you have a full lifebar to work with. Also lot a ton of games that way, but I got better.

Posted by kojinalkopparoqitsah on August 19, 2009 at 7:35 a.m. #254

Do some one have some links with some really good Vega player? :)

Posted by Jabes on August 19, 2009 at 9:59 a.m. #255

http://known2own.wordpress.com/2009/0...

kinda bad quality...but it's the only vega vs daigo I have seen online

although vega gets owned...lol

also youtube team tatsu

Posted by noob on August 19, 2009 at 1:24 p.m. #256

also look for "kurochevsky" on youtube. Sounds like he's from France and plays on the PC - but he plays a wicked solid game with Vega.

Posted by Alone goliat (ps3) on August 19, 2009 at 9:46 p.m. #257

Vega is Probably the most annoyng char on street fighter, and you have to use it to win, ofcourse his weak, but he has a wonderful range, just poke, poke , poke, forget about flashy combos, just piss the hell off of your opponent. Do never waste your super bar, and take off your claw onporpouse as soon as you feel safe, in order to restart the number of hits it receives. We vegas cant stay invict for long but, be sure that your better than most of your punishers, for a simple reason; Vega is the most complex character in SF. feel free to invite me on the ps3...

Posted by Alone goliat (ps3) on August 19, 2009 at 9:51 p.m. #258

btw, i play with the Dualshok, do not underrestimate me muajajajaja^,~. Claws up people!

Posted by j4zzm4n21 on August 23, 2009 at 2:18 p.m. #259

anyone got advice for a vega user against overpowered shotos? oh and that tiger fag.switched to vega recently and he is quite simply outstanding! forget blanka here is the charge character of choice.seriously does playing versus mode on hardest help cos in g-2 i get smoked.....

Posted by ??? on August 24, 2009 at 3:58 p.m. #260

hey j4zzm4n21

what system are you playing on....maybe i could help...ive been using claw for quite a while and id be more than willing to give some tips

Posted by at # 262 on August 25, 2009 at 1:08 a.m. #261

i'm on ps3 my win record is dismal these days.i used to main sagat then changed cos i hate him i now switched to fei long with vega as my second.my main problems are caused by the shotos,especially akuma not to mention sagat my main problem is the projectiles that all of a sudden get linked into anti-air moves.i try charging but always get pressured the backflip only gets me so far...

Posted by jeremie on August 25, 2009 at 11:33 p.m. #262

well im on the PS3 too....maybe we should play together to see where we stand and what we need to work on... if youd wanna do that then i wouldnt mind : )

Posted by j4zzm4n21 on August 26, 2009 at 12:40 a.m. #263

yeah jeremie i suppose getting my ass kicked by you could inspire greatness and really force me to adapt my game.my psn tag is jazzman21 once i finish bionic commando rearmed/ done some intense training i'll play you then you can see how much work i need, a second opinion is always helpful.

Posted by jeremie on August 26, 2009 at 11:37 a.m. #264

hahahaaha

dont worry...im not a pro or anything...this is more to help each other out....share what we know and further learn...ill add you sometime today when i come back

Posted by j4zzm4n21 on August 26, 2009 at 12:54 p.m. #265

ok mr. semi pro (i'll call you jackie moon ha ha ha) sounds like a plan i was just doing trials with bruce lee jr vega's normal 3 is where i'm stuck embarassingly enough but hey this site helps.i look forward to our sparring.

Posted by Assassin on August 28, 2009 at 1:52 p.m. #266

so anyway, Vega is NOT the player that annoys the crap out of everybody, of all the players that annoy the crap out of everybody Vega isn't even on that list.

being scared and confused isn't the same thing as someone being annoying

Vega is one of the classiest players in the game, shotos are boring, and Balrog (Boxer), Bison and Rufus are the epitomy of annoying play styles, Zangief is almost in the same league, depending on the player.

the truly good players are Guile, El Fuerte, Vega, Honda, Chun Li, Abel, Blanka and Dhalsim (of the Arcade set) and most of the other 8 console / PC characters

of those players, nobody can say that something is "annoying" because they all have an old school skill set which requires effort at a disadvantage to the ACTUALLY annoying players

people don't even seem to be using their brain anymore, they are just obsessed with the "combo til they die" mentality at the input that they have all become simply annoying to play against.

its like "hey wake up, remember the game? or are you just staring at the buttons?"

anyway, Vega is my favorire, El Fuerte is Second and Abel Third. Those players take ACTUAL skill, rather than simply button input memorization which truly annoys the crap out of every ACTUAL street fighter OG.

of all the players, I think Vega **IS THE BEST** his tool set **IS THE BEST**

I'm not saying the most powerful or highest priority, or best combos, I'm saying that his arsenal is actually full of great awesome moves which take a true Pro to pull off

whoever designed Vega for SF4 over at Capcom, designed him to be exactly the way a True Vega LEET would play him

its one of the few players in the game that can bring the Game Play of old school SF back to the stage, as he forces players to drop the iron button gaze and rethink their game

the best part about playing him is that people see him as the weakest most incapable charater with something like the SF2 skill set, whilst the rest of the SF cast has gained super powers, and so everyone you play enters with over-confidence and arrogance, laughing at your player.

then you get to mop the stage with them round and round again

THATS why Vega is the Best.

Posted by Assassin on August 28, 2009 at 1:58 p.m. #267

There's nothing like taking the so-called "weakest player" and laying waste to all in your path

I'd say TRULY great players play more challenging characters,

the more challenging the character, the better the player.

and NOT TRULY great players play super strong super powerful and overly dominating characters,

the worse the player, the greater the need to over-compensate.

Posted by Assassin on August 28, 2009 at 2:05 p.m. #268

i read this entire thread, and there were alot of good tips and information

so here is my tip for the jar.

someone asked earlier what other ways there were to set up the kara throw.

this method sets you up out of normal throw range, but right about at maximum distance for the kara throw

start near your opponent, right up close, to jab position, but don't strike

from there, do the full back slash (all 3 punch buttons)

then immediately do a forward dash (Forward 2 times on the joystick) then go right into your Kara Throw

you'll find its the perfect Kara Setup.

To Kara throw, first tap HK then tap the Throw buttons, but it actually seems like you are pressing all 3 buttons together, but actually you're not

Posted by Assassin on August 28, 2009 at 2:20 p.m. #269

also, there were many posts about 8 to 11 combos posted on Youtube, i wonder if anyone would post the input to any of those combos here, Youtube is blocked in the political region I'm in.

Posted by Assassin on August 28, 2009 at 2:38 p.m. #270

and one other thing

there seems to be alo of people having problems with various opponents.

every opponent requires a completely different approach with Vega, you have to take a game which is unique to your opponent, so you must both master your opponents as well as master the moves which counter or are most effective.

Vega takes an extrodinary amount of time and effort and memorization of all tactics for all different players because of his "Apparent" disadvantage, similar to El Fuerte

You may not even use any of the moves you used against one player that you will use on another.

in most instances, Vegas moes must be very specific to the opponent, as opposed toother caracters with a dominating style in every match, Vega must be played tactfully and with very expertly.

you annot say "oh I have a great upper cut and spin kick, and fireball and i will beat people up with them" as you do with shotos

you have to think "I have a Scarlet Terror which works under these specifc conditions, against these attacks / opportunties, and against these specific players"

Vega is the Adaptive Enigma, the Ninja, who selects the right tool for the job, and thinks nothing of himself or his abilities.

He has a pecific Skill set capable of vanquishing all Street Fighter Foes

but learning which those will be is entirely up to you.

You will have to spend Time "Re-mastering/ Re-molding" Vega for every Character / Play Style you encounter.

and then you have to remember all of that.

which is the main reason people are so quick to brush Vega off, because of his lack of apparent abilities at first glance

but in fact he has more skills and abilities than any other player in the game, and he is created with all he needs to conquer all would-be opponents in Street Fighter

so if you really want to be a Vega1337, rethink it, you will spend as much time mastering vega as you would take mastering most of the whole rest of the cast of Street Fighter

Posted by Assassin on August 28, 2009 at 8:28 p.m. #271

And about the Mask throw, it doesnt matter which 2 punch buttons you push when doing it, it will always travel towards center stage, same with the claw

its a great way to see where you are on the stage, just toss it up and be there to catch it to see where center stage is

you pick them up with your back foot slightly moving forward or backward near the object, or with the hand-plant during a full back slash (all 3 punch buttons)

when thrown forward, a dash forward will set you up for an automatic re-suiting when its hits the ground

when thrown behind vega, holding back on the joystick before a full back slash with scoot him back just enough to pick it up with the hand-plant. if you do the full beack slash without holding the joystick back first you will be just short of picking it up

i find it extremely enjoyable to pick up my lost items during a game, as well as to throw and catch, its adds another dimenstion of challenge to the game.

yet another reason Vega is the best, he has things to play with and other business to attend to during a battle

proving (at least to me)that he was designed for the ultraleet players

comboing into his moves is one of the hardest in the game, unlike, say, Ryu, who can pull supers and ultras and other special moves out of his arse

his extremely long focus attack and extreme fast recovery and extremely fast and far reaching forward dash as well as his overall super speed make him the most dangerous player in the game

Posted by Anonymous on August 29, 2009 at 1:24 p.m. #272

Check out his Hard Trial 1 - that combo is my favorite and I use it far more then the BNB combo listed here. It is
1:Jumping Hard Punch
2:Crouching Light Punch
3:Crouching Medium Punch
4:Cancel Into Light Rolling Crystal Flash
5:EX Cancel
It can do good damage, and is much more reliable (if you have your claw) because the jumping hard punch has better priority. The other thing I like about it is that I can just use fragments of it. Any two or three steps in it can be done independently, which is true of most combos but really useful here.

Posted by vtec on August 29, 2009 at 2:21 p.m. #273

VEGA RULES!!!

The END.

Posted by X_Vegaman_X on August 29, 2009 at 2:41 p.m. #274

The dreaded question.......

for me the hardest character isnt Zangief spinning, Akuma throwing fireballs, Blanka rolling all over the place,or Gouken focus countering my FBA or SHC. all are annoying but they are beatable. for me the hardest is Vega. i can't beat him for crap. anyone know any good strategies for Vega vs Vega?

Posted by dodge guy on August 29, 2009 at 3:06 p.m. #275

Lure in ur opponent, bait for openings and counterstrike.

Mind games basically. Gain that edge.

Posted by j4zzm4n21 on August 30, 2009 at 11:54 a.m. #276

after being annihilated by a certain jeremie's vega i picked up some strategies and now am firmly on the vega band wagon this guy is a destructive force to be reckoned with my main problem is staying charged while under pressure from the shotos and blanka. a vs character guide or some pointers would be helpful.

Posted by Datsun on August 31, 2009 at 8:29 p.m. #277

was jeremie's vega good? what did he do? how did he play

btw who is jeremie

Posted by j4zzm4n21 on September 1, 2009 at 12:42 a.m. #278

jeremie's a dude from this site who invited me for sparring to give me some pointers and see a truly fantastic vega in action.he played well messed with my head and was able to be counterattacking yet annihilative at the same time.first time i'd ever seen a vega who could pressure me so well, dude is really good.seriously can someone please give me some tips for fighting shotos and blanka whilst under pressure as vega.

Posted by jeremie on September 1, 2009 at 1:41 p.m. #279

hey j4zzm4n21

honestly...all i can say is

dont be afraid to backflip out of there...but do not, by any means...abuse the backflip...

if you are even holding a charge...sacrifice it to get out...basically...what you wanna do is abuse what "range" vega has compared to most shotos...try not to get cornered and try to out range everyone....and dont forget if they are spamming fireballs...you can use EX Rolling Crystal Flash since it goes under them...and if they try to jump or cross you over...dont forget you have an air throw

if you like...we can spar again first hand..ill use a shoto so you can try to do these things with no risk of BP or championship rounds

Posted by j4zzm4n21 on September 2, 2009 at 12:38 a.m. #280

sure jeremie sparring again is a plan.

Posted by ??? on September 5, 2009 at 12:41 a.m. #281

is there any good vega players what would like to have some sparring matches?

Posted by ??? on September 6, 2009 at 2:16 a.m. #282

does anyone post in this section anymore?

Posted by Catalyst on September 6, 2009 at 2:21 a.m. #283

If you're looking for sparring partners, you should try here on the EventHubs tournament website. Lots of people setting up matches there:

http://eventhubstourneys.wetpaint.com...

Posted by jeremie on September 6, 2009 at 9:38 p.m. #284

@ Catalyst

do i just add the people listed there and say i would like to spar?
or is there anything else i have to do?

and thank you very much for posting that

Posted by Master Vega PLaya on September 9, 2009 at 1:47 a.m. #285

IM A REALLY GOOD VEGA PLAYER IVE BEEN PLAYING HIM SINCE THE CLASSIC STREET FIGHTER'S ON PS1 WERE AROUND. HES INDEED A VERY FUN PLAYER TO PLAY WITH AND SO FAR THE BEST IF YOU LEARN ALL HIS TRICKS.

Posted by Th3 JoK3R J on September 9, 2009 at 2:54 p.m. #286

@Master Vega PLaya
Then share your good Vega skills on her by showing
your PSN/GT and let people really know if your good
with him too bad i can't cuz my mem ran out on
360 Live.

Posted by Antonio on September 11, 2009 at 5:57 p.m. #287

I AGREEEE VEGA IS THE BEST I TOO ROCK AT VEGA SO I KNOW WUT YOU MEAN VEGA NUMBER 1 FOREVAAAAA WORRDDDDDDDDD

Posted by -anto. on September 11, 2009 at 6:02 p.m. #288

A.n.t.o..n.io.nio = (づﾟ 3ﾟ)づ (・(・ says (6:02 PM):
Master Vega Playa is from another planet
Terence says (6:02 PM):
hes immortal or something

Posted by ??? on September 16, 2009 at 11:31 a.m. #289

does anyone write on these things anymore?

Posted by nope on September 16, 2009 at 1:14 p.m. #290

nope

Posted by cowboy_soultaker on September 17, 2009 at 7:38 a.m. #291

got a couple questions.

I ran into a cpu fei long that was able to spam the first step of his 3 punch move to pressure me, and this has priority over all charge moves, as does his flame kick (if you're lucky enough to get airborn). Aside from a standing h kick, is there a good strat for this type of player for vega?

Also, i've run into some blanka's that spam electric charge and I haven't found a move yet to break him out of it. is focus attack the only way?

Lastly, is there any tips on doing the kara throw? I'm nearly to the point of simultaneously pressing HK and LK LP and the animation isn't canceling. Any help would be appreciated ^_^

Posted by Dave on September 19, 2009 at 10:11 p.m. #292

@ cowboy

The best tool against blanka's electricity it vega's crouching fierce kick (slide kick)

just make sure you're not close though, because vega will get hit on the start up animation

And about fei long, if you know the punch is coming, and he's only doing the first punch and stopping, just focus counter.

If he started adding punches, just block and punish. Or you could always just jump in the air and counter on the way down.

As for his kara throw, the only way to know if you're consectutively pulling it off is to go in training mode.

The training mode arena has black lines on the floor. Put the tip of your foot on the bold black like and perform a regular grab and see how far you scoot forward.

Then attempt a kara throw. If performed correctly you should see vega scoot much farther forward than he did from the regular throw.

Posted by Jeremie on September 22, 2009 at 6:20 a.m. #293

i was just wondering what are the differences between SF4 Vega(Claw) and HDR(Claw)

because the ranks on the tier lists are completely different...

Posted by Th3 JoK3R J on September 22, 2009 at 7:40 a.m. #294

@Jeremie

I think that the HDR claw is more quicker then the SF4 claw and the izuna drop grab waayyy more easier to do in HDR then SF4 claw and low HK slide and pokes are better in HDR.

Again really easy izuna drop that's a very damaging move to be done so easily and fast unlike in SF4 alot of people just kicks you rite out of the move.

Posted by Anonymous on September 22, 2009 at 1:31 p.m. #295

Probably the biggest difference is that in HDR Scarlet Terror had invulnerability frames and could anti air juggle 2 hits into another hit both being the HK input. People actually had a reason to not want to get in Vega's face as opposed to SFIV were he has no invulnerability on any moves.

Also super came out looking exactly like a normal wall dive and did not lose any meter if it whiffed.

Posted by Anonymous on September 22, 2009 at 1:35 p.m. #296

oh also rolling crystal flash was a better pressure tactic and could tag on a crouching medium punch after a HP RCF

Posted by Jeremie on September 22, 2009 at 2:59 p.m. #297

@
Th3 JoK3R J & Anonymous

ahhh i seee thanks a lot for answering...i wonder how Vega would do if he were still the same... my main problems are those that were mentioned...the fact that i can get easily knocked out of all of my moves...and that i dont really have any good anti-airs since Scarlet Terror is sometimes just for show

Posted by Dave on September 23, 2009 at 8:27 a.m. #298

@ Jeremie

Vega's best anti-air is his standing fierce kick, use it when they jump in.

Vega also had better reach in HDRemix. Sf4 nerfed him in just about every way possible

Posted by Th3 JoK3R J on September 23, 2009 at 8:17 p.m. #299

@ Dave
I disagree with that because i think the Scarlet Terror is the best anti-air att, i punish alot of people jumping in the air with that move i fail using with the FK most of the time but with ST i don't.
Well it feels better to me using the Scarlet Terror.

Posted by Dave on September 23, 2009 at 8:36 p.m. #300

@ Joker

the scarlett terror is not always reliable because of its terrible priority and vulnerability upon start up.

If you try using the ST on sagat as he's performing his jump in medium punch, it will stuff the ST clean, or trade if performed early enough.

I will agree that if you have it charged, the ST is the best option if you can time it correctly so that it doesnt trade with the jump in attack.

However, if you dont have it charged, the best alternative is the standing HK. Just make sure your spacing is correct.

Posted by Assassin on September 25, 2009 at 2:51 a.m. #301

well I got a SF4 arcade competition and Sagat seemed to be ruling and I couldnt seem to beat this one really great player, but a C. Viper player came along and defeated every super Sagat every single time which kind of made him the undisputed champion, but i destroyed that C Viper player every time and he was never even able to win a round against me. thats how SF4 works, someone can beat a certain amount of ccharacters, but there is always another character that can beat you.

so here are some of my strategies i use against shotos:

I dash forward alot, i hardly never dash backwards because his backwards dash is so weak and flipping is way better.

i do alot of forward dashing, stabbing a few times including Standing hard punch and forward kick, crouching medium and light punches and medium kicks, light rolling crystal flashes and scarlet terrors then get out of there fast. my game is really a jump in + attack + escape

air throws are useful if used aggressively enough

and one of my most favorite moves against shotos is the EX Sky-high claw off of the opponents back wall because it travels right through them, and t hey never see it coming. and i use the wall to my back to catch airbornes or punish fireballs

I use alot of Flying Barcelona attacks which whiff or end in the claw simply to build their confidence so i can mre easily land a bloody claw later in the game.

Scarlet terrors are very useful, I often to the Cosmic Heel to Scarlet terror if I have n EX meter.

Jumping in with HP and going to crouching MP then cancel to Scarlet terror or EX flying barcelona is good, so is landing a jumping HP and then a stnding HP cancellig the first hit into HP Crystal Rolling Flash

on Blanka, the EX flying barcelona attack with a punch button held directly over his electricity and a neutral Joystick position slashes him 2 times. if its a super it will slash him 3 times in the head.

i use forward dash + cosmic heel + Scarlet terron or ex barcelone to izuna drop with quite alot of success.

I use scarlet terrors quite well also, but they reay arent so useful when a skiled opponent is right on top of you.

in cases when i'm being "ticked" by shotos and I'm backed into a wall or they are agressively following my backflips i use crouching light punch to Kara throw, or crouching light punch to light crystal rolling flash, or light punch or light kick to scarlet terror (light scarlet terror to EX scarlet terror if im close enough)

and I do an Izuna wall drop when I have him guessing, You cant believe how easily I land Izuna wall drops straight off the regular flying barcelona once I have them scared of the bloody claw and believing i'm just going to whiff or slash out of the Flying Barcelona

I never crouching hard kick

Posted by Assassin on September 25, 2009 at 3:25 a.m. #302

another useful thing I'm doing:

usually i burn ex meter instead of doing an ultra because i'm not hitting all 3 buttons exactly right, so i usually had to wait until i had used all of my EX meter before attempting an ultra, otherwise i just waste EX meter, and with Vega, there is never enough EX meter, and the whole game all you are doing is trying to get an EX bar.

now, with no EX meter I can get the super out every time.

so I started using reverse input istead. I hold all 3 kick buttons then I do the motion and release all 3 buttons at the same time after i've done the motion, for some reason that is way easier for me and doesnt waste my EX bar.

and you would really be surprised how fast the opponents life meter disappears just from landing 2 or 3 stab combos. such as 2 crouching Light punches + one or 2 crouching medium punches, or a standing light punch + crouching medium punch + standing medium punch + standing hard punch + a standing medium kick or 2 , not unblockable combo, but very easy to land from a safe distance because of the long reach which other players cant judge or cant believe it would hit them, and then retreat.

or just jumping in aggessively with a HP or MP then link to a crouching MP then flipping out works wonders.

the key with vega is to be very aggressive but from a safe distance, and not to get too greedy, get out while you can. retreat early.

as soon as land a jump in strike, crouch strike to crystal flash, I retreat, then I get in fast strike a time or two and get out while the gettin' is good, i dont hang around to see how far i can take or how long until he wises up, this keeps the game in your favor, and you control the scenarios and keeps him on edge and gussing, not knowing what to expect or even if he will have an opportunity to counter or land his combos he is just dying to hit you with

I used to have a hard time with shotos, especially Ryu until I just started jumping in with HP to crouching MP or 2, then that opened the door to alot of other possibilities

shotos rely on intimidation and blocking them is important, and tech-throws when they want to throw you is vital, and alot of times crouching LP can beat out a tickthrow, so learn to be johnny on the spot with LP or LP + LK in those situations,

spacing is key, a jumping HP in the air will beat out most of what shotos throw out in the air, even in cases where Vegas mighty airthrow might not work

and you another really great move is simply just flying out into an EX flying barcelona, timed and aimed as a strike, its a lot like Blankas upward EX roll

learning Blanka and Guile can also help improve Vegas game, jus to get the charge characters gameplay down

Posted by Assassin on September 25, 2009 at 4:01 a.m. #303

light crystal flash and scarlet terror are both awesome moves and they moth link from MP or MK or LP or LK

light crystal flash is fast, and very hard to counter, its one of vegas best moves and can be used in a wide variety of situations

his HK scarlet terror can be used almost anytime, its awesome, has a very far reach, hits 2 times in almost every situation. while it doesnt hit directly on the ground so far, it hits much further in the air and on opponents attacking from a pretty good distance. if you are playing vega wisely, then the Scarlet Terror fits in perfectly with the rest of his distance combos. If you need it as a wakeup, you arent playing vega wisely, but it can be used as a wake up provided the opponents timing is off by a couple frames.

I use HP roling crystal flash FADC into alot of these other moves, jump HP, Crouch MP, and then either crouching LP and then a second crouching lp which whiffs, then a crouhing mp which can usually hit two more times, as it looks like you are already too far away when you whiff the second LP

HP & MP Crystal flash is one of those that can be easily beaten by shotos because its such a telegraphed move, but its fairly easy to throw into a combo, and it can be used by itself if you are far enough away to hit with the last hot two so that it might hit the wakeup uppercut anyway, or in cases where he might be unprepared as he is getting up. your roll shouldnt be too early, you should wait til the last possible frame, which might seem strange because of how slow it begins, but its harder to counter if it begins after he assumes you werent going to do it and plans on doing something other than an uppercut.

Vega's Focus Attack is useful against shotos, for absorbing fireballs, dashing forward which really moves you a great distance across the screen, then cosmic heel or claw strike combo

you can do two cosmic heels in a row, if the first is out at a good distance, which is good against sagat who thinks hes the only guy who can roundhouse two times before the opponent hits the ground.

vegas standing short kick is also very useful in backing people like Balrog off, his standing short kick stuffs about ever straight ground attack Balrog has.

Zangief likes to be hit with Scarlet Terros alot, although he won't admit it.

half back flips are really useful on people who have gotten keen to your full backflip move, and in almost every instance you can half backflip into a standing or crouching LP strike, a Kara throw, or a standing HP to HP crystal rolling flash

Posted by jm21 on September 25, 2009 at 7:40 a.m. #304

great advice assassin will definitely use it.muchas gracias

Posted by cowboy_soultaker on September 26, 2009 at 4:23 p.m. #305

Thanks for the advice earlier, and thanks to assassin for the strats.

A lot of what you are saying, assassin, is proven in that i've picked it up naturally (at least most of it) while playing vega. I still have some holes, but I think that's born from vega not being able to take punishment, and can't deal much punishment either. I say the latter part because many high priority moves, like ryu's shoryuken for example, have almost no cooldown (for lack of a better term). A true punish would be DF+HK (cosmic), ex wall, izuna or something similar (that link does so much dmg). such is the long road of a vega player eh? ^_^

I think my shoto game is coming along (still can't beat my bro's ken), but when I fight a good balrog (boxer) his pokes shut me down and his long as hell combos eat up my health. Jump ins are out-prioritized by c.HK and his jump ins out prioritize a lot too (jump hk). It's a real head scratcher.

Posted by Dave on September 26, 2009 at 4:34 p.m. #306

Tips for fighting Boxer :

1. Punish EX dash punches with backwards jumping HP, cMP, EX walldive combo.

2. Stay as far from corners as humanly possible. If boxer gets you in a corner, you're losing at least half of your health...and thats IF you can escape.

3. Keep out an eye for the rushing low smash, this move is terrible for Claw because Claw players most always idle in the crouching position to charge their moves. If you know its comming, counter with the scarlett terror. It will break right through EX versions aswell since it has armor breaking properties.

4. Try using safe jumps using HP. Try suckering boxer into a headbutt, then punishing with any combo.

5. Use claw's backflip (both versions) sparingly. Boxer's crouching HK has far reach and will punish it most every time. Also, if you abuse too many flips, it will just keep backing you into a corner, which spells death for claw.

And one final tip for Claw...

D/f+HK is great to combo with. Most people use the EX walldive afterwards, but the best bet is using the EX scarlett terror.

There are 2 reasons for this

1. All of us Claw players have had the walldive glitch happen to us many times. Where claw hits the opponent with the EX jumping portion, only to bounce off the wall far too late to land the izuna drop.

This puts the combo at risk

2. The EX scarlett terror version of the combo only does 1 damage less than the EX walldive version. So...

Option A : Use EX walldive for only 1 more damage, but has the possibility of glitching and preventing the combo to be finished.

Option B : Use EX scarlett terror and settle with doing 1 damage less and be rest assured that the combo will always land.

I'd say its an easy choice

Posted by cowboy_soultaker on September 26, 2009 at 5:58 p.m. #307

The Choice is not so easy for me. you throw out your df charge from the cosmic and have to start over with the ex st (unless there is a shortcut I am unaware of). that leaves no margin for error....or lag. In an in-the-room bout, which I do have a few, i see your argument.

also you whiff the ex scarlet and you are punished on wake up most likely. you whiff an ex wall jump, glitch or otherwise, you are pretty far away. I realize in tournament levels people wouldn't be whiffing but I can't see it being favored over ex wall, at least for joe-lazyboy.

I am just saying not to be hasty in discounting ex wall to izuna. I personally struggle with getting the 2 sec charge for the ex st so it will take practice.

Thanks for the strat on boxer. can you tell me what safe jump means?

Posted by Assassin on September 26, 2009 at 8:16 p.m. #308

I traveled to another city and played at the local arcade and i beat Giefs and Ryu's and Kens, had a little trouble on an awesome Guile player, and battled out the endless battles of a General Bison. but eventually the guy called in a pro because his friend came about an hour later and mirrored me on Vega and beat me for a long time. I couldnt believe there was a better Vega than me. I dont think he was better in actual Veg skill as me, but he was better in overall SF4 gameplay which helped him out alot, things like going forward and backwards alot, he dashed forward way more than I ever do, he did alot of whiffs on me like I do on shotos, he used his ultra immediately after I did a wall dive, which worked every time. what I figured out was that mirrored vegas are alot like they used to be in Championship edition, same kind of match up, timing wins, dont get into stabbing battles with a vega, you have a 50% of losing out. I had to start playing vega like i play El Fuerte (my 2nd) or Abel (my 3rd). vega is pretty punishable after his wall dive claw strike, if you do a half backflip to avoid the block freeze time. and just like in championship, whoever leaves the ground first to the wall dive gets punished, ex bloody claws are useful, otherwise, vegas air throw can throw vega out of most wall dives and be caught anytime from after he leaves the ground to before he extends his claw, and works best when you are closer to ega before he leaves the ground, if he is farther across the screen, and quick forward dash will improve the chances of catching him with an air throw.

as for the cosmic heel to ex scarlet terror, i found a way to get over the wall glitch. and I do this with great consistency when ex flying Barcelone in the corner, after your stike hitsand grabs the wall you need to fly straight up and towards the wall even further, then you need to direct your self down and out away from the wall and delay the grab until the last possible frame. so far I havent ran into the wall glitch anymore. but you need to be pretty conscious of everything you are doing every time, because its quite different and takes a lot more effor than the regular izuna drop away from the wall. and I think it looks way cooler than the scarlet terror, but i do alot of cosmic heels to regular scarlet terror just to save ex meter, (just flip the joystick to down and forward and to down back charge before the animation for cosmic heel begins, then execute the Scarlet Terror when the oppponent has almost hit the ground), and the ex scarlet terror i generally save for times when i need the ex to beat out other moves. but the cosheel to ex ST gets the job done, though not as sexy when doing it, i love that izuna drop after flying barcelona, its one of my favorite moves in all of SF4.

Posted by Assassin on September 26, 2009 at 8:17 p.m. #309

and i am guessing the "safe jump" against Boxer he is referring to is well-timed jumps with HP, probaby backwards. Boxer is one of those players that if you screw up one time you are dead.

the ex bloody claw from his back wall works good as part of a combo, so do whiffs and flying slashes from a distance which just reach him or hit is back side. The scarlet terror works good after connecting with crouching MK or MP, and most imprtant with balrog is never risking a hit, its better to block and get away, because as soon as he connects your dead. the best bet for close up attacks is only after a straight in charging hit or his spinning 3-button hit which you can stuff with standing LKs and go into a crouching hit combo or even a standing HP to HCRF, or another combo from there, otherwise keeping at a safe distance is all i do. but if you do a forward dash from the right distance you will usually find Boxer coming forward for a headbutt or a combo at which point you have a pretty good chance of hitting with a cosmic heel.

in all, Vega's power lies in combos, alot of them are hard to set up but comboing is the key to vega, i dont do much in the way of 11-hit combos, but I'm working up to that level, because its really the only way to get in on an opponent like boxer and do alot of damage without getting killed in the process

the guy I mirrored was just great in general SF4 gameplay such as constant re-distancing, Focus Attacks, FA dash back cancels, FADC's, tick throws, kara throws, blocking and waiting. I get really impatient and I have never played vega as a sit and wait character, which is half the reason he beat me, he did alot of camping/turtling which i never do because it drives me nuts. but he was really good with his blocks, waiting, drawing out, creating openings for the opponent to attack and then countering, and other SF4 gaeplay I'm sure he picked up from playing other characters, this guy was also the best I've seen with Guile, which probably explains alot about his game

Posted by Dave on September 26, 2009 at 9:02 p.m. #310

Safe jumps are jumps that are timed so that you land right before the enemy's reversal connects.

You can think of it as a fake out jump.

Your attack will still connect, and you'll be safe from reversals. The timing is just a little difficult to become accustomed to. You may see players in high level play vids doing it.

Another good tip is abusing the izuna drop.

If you land an izuna drop you can start charging immediatly after it connects. as soon as you recover from the animation, walldive again.

As you jump off the wall, delay the motion for a sec, then cross over at the last second possible, preferrably as close to boxer's back half as possible. You'll either land another izuna drop, or Boxer will try a reversal headbutt.

Even if he does perform the headbutt, if you corssed over at the last second he'l headbutt in the wrong direction and you bloody claw him instead, which sets up for yet another walldive.

Eventually they'll get smart and try to focus counter, but boxer has a big enough hitbox where you should be able to land the izuna drop consecutively. It works wonders for me.

This tactic is also useful against Sagat, since his hitbox is huge.

Posted by Assassin on September 27, 2009 at 5:45 a.m. #311

the EX flying barcelona from your back wall that hits with a neutral joystick position slashes 2 times and kills FA's and most other counter hits. Most characters in the game have a crouching move which completely wipes out the Izuna drop, it just depends on if your opponent has learned it yet or not, so the EX overhead double rip is really useful for building up their blocking rather than countering your flying attacks

Posted by Dave on September 28, 2009 at 12:34 p.m. #312

Good tip assassin, i play a guy who always focus counters it. i'll use that to mix it up.

Another combo : Cosmic heel, light scarlett terror, EX scarlett terror. 268 damage

Cosmic heel, EX scarlett terror only does 260

Its harder to do, and only does 8 additional damage, so use if you really want to.

Also, its better to use the light scarlett first in combos.

Example :

Combo A - Jumping FP, cMP/cMK, EX walldive izuna drop = 315 damage

Combo B - Jumping FP, cMK, EX scarlett terror = 314 damage

Combo C - Jumping FP, cMK, light scarlett terror, EX scarlett terror = 327 damage

Posted by Jeremie on September 28, 2009 at 1:53 p.m. #313

@ Dave

doesnt the Scarlett Terror whiff on a combo unless its HK or EX ?

Posted by Assassin on September 28, 2009 at 2:22 p.m. #314

thanks for the numbers

i think the main reason that mirror beat me was because he was one of the only players i've ever played with respect for vega. most other players simply are too proud or arrogant or confident to concede to a more defensive approach against vega, and not take anything for granted, the guy played me like vega might play balrog, ryu, or sagat, which made him very hard to beat

we vegas play guarded against alot of top tier characters but almost nobody plays so guarded against us, as most people just think they can just walk up to vega and kick the crap out of him, because i think SF4 was created with a weak CPU vega version, just to keep Vega more enigmatic.

and thats what made this mirror so different from every other match up. It was the only time i ever played someone who truly respected and truly feared vega, as all characters SHOULD

Posted by Assassin on September 28, 2009 at 2:28 p.m. #315

@Jeremie

Thats what I hate, the Light ST whiffs unless its in the range of crouching LK, and a pretty close one, i can only ever successfully use it on over-confident shotos trying to throw me when they are exactly ontop of me or jump in combos where i land very close. I havent really found any other way to use it besides when someone is jumping in right on top of you. i whiff that so much i pretty much just stopped using it

Posted by Assassin on September 28, 2009 at 2:53 p.m. #316

about removing his claw, taking either the claw or mask off manually resets the number of blocked hits you've taken, so by taking off the claw manually at any chance you have, you won't lose it from attacks.

the claw always goes to center-stage, if it goes forward, a forward dash will resuit it as it lands, and if it goes backwards, holding back on the joystick just before doing a full back flip will pick it up with the hand plant if the item is aleady on the ground (doing the normal back flip without holding back first will whiff)

Posted by noob on September 28, 2009 at 7:03 p.m. #317

Great to see all this buzz on the vega board! Thanks to all the notes above.

Question to Assassin or whoever might know this - anyway to combo vega's Super after a Scarlet Terror? I _thought_ I remember seeing a youtube vid on this but haven't been able to find it and certainly haven't been able to do it.

The Super i'm referring to isn't the multiple throw - but the stick neutral multi-hit.

thanks in advance!

Posted by Jink on September 29, 2009 at 4:30 a.m. #318

My wish list for SSF4:

1. I hope that Vega's claw to get unbeatable trade-hit properties.
2. I hope that Vega's wall dive bugs get removed, and that Vega can go through opponents during forward Barcelona (EX).
Its so annoying when Vega's forward Barcelona gets stock with jumping opponents, totally unable reach the wall.
3. Vega's df+MK (Piece of Mercury) should be an overhead.
4. Vega's claw and mask toss should hit opponents, just like Dudley's rose taunt in SF3. The mask hitting opponent should result in higher stunt damage.

Posted by Googie_1 on September 29, 2009 at 5:36 a.m. #319

As for the improvements of vega,

I think:-

1. Vega should deal a little more damage so you dont have to hit the opponent a million times.

2. His Scarlet terror should HAVE a MUCH highier priority.

3. His bar should comsume slightly less energy when he's hit.

4. The Rolling Claw Attack should come out much quicker with the mid/high punch.

I'd be very happy with just that.

Although Jink's comments about the bugs when jumping off the wall is a MUST. I've lost games just to that and nothing else.

The claw/mask hitting opponents is a very cool idea indeed!

Ohh what I would love, if the Sky High Claw EX (going forward) would knock an opponent into air so Vega could bounce off the wall and slice them as they fall down!! That would be cool!!

Posted by Jeremie on September 29, 2009 at 5:44 a.m. #320

All I want are some invulnerability frames for Scarlet Terror

Posted by Jeremie on September 29, 2009 at 5:45 a.m. #321

also i want his original speed and range back

Posted by Dave on September 29, 2009 at 7:43 a.m. #322

Jeremie, you are half-right

The cosmic heel combo works, but the jumping in combo only works against sagat and bigger characters.

Sorry for the confusion.

As for tweaking, if scarlett terror had invincible start up frames and the ultra tracked the enemy's position (making it hit an airborne enemy) i would be happy

Posted by googie_1 on September 29, 2009 at 9:14 a.m. #323

The invincible start up is a must i agree.
Like the idea of the ultra.

What about reverting the super to its old form where the bar only deplenishes once vega lands the Izuna Drop ?

Posted by Assassin on September 29, 2009 at 9:55 a.m. #324

@noob: i dont know about the combo, buty I suppose it would have to work off of the LKST if at all, then instead of an EXST maybe you can do the ultra? i dont know, it sounds cool, i will give it a try.

as for "SSF4" general fixes, I have wanted a move that wakes people up from stars without doing damage, such as HK+HP + forward when close, like a little slap in the face and the opponent says something cordial and bows before fighting can resume

and I would also like "friendly moves" like instead of an Izuna Drop you could do something friendly which controls the opponent in a held "grab" state, but performs a funny friendly gesture that doesnt take of any life and sets the opponent a safe distance away from you. Vegas friendly move could be a flying barcelona attack and then it grabs them like a drop but instead it just does something like a little fun toss with roses or something, and eery character would have their own "friendly" move which can be thrown into combos

as for Vega specific things, I would like him returned to his original status as "way too powerful" and join the top tier rankings, as he is a final shadaloo boss afterall

i honestly feel like the designers made him perfect and someone over at capcom cried about it, and then they systematically took him apart and dwarfed about everything he has. i feel he has been WAY over-tampered with.

his ST has been weakened, and probably had the invincibile frames removed, as well as the range made more difficult

The Wall "Glitch" i think was intentional, forcing a claw strike instead, i dont think it is a glitch at all, but a nerf

and I think his combos have been tampered with as well, his combos arent half as cool as alot of the other players in SF4, and his strength seems really diminished especially against strong characters like Gief and Sagat.

Vega was the strongest player in the game initially, so he had to be nerfed in several ways

i think we can all see what was tampered with just by what we can all see needs to be restored in order for him to be the top character in the game

i want him restored to be top tier character who owns sagat, like he used to be

Posted by Dave on September 29, 2009 at 9:55 a.m. #325

Googie

that would be nice, his super is basically useless because of the start up animation at the wall, its a dead give away that its coming, and therefore easy to dodge.

Its especially useless against any character with a teleport : bison, dhalsim, seth, and akuma

Posted by Assassin on September 29, 2009 at 10:24 a.m. #326

i think the star wake-up move is essential in SF4 because people are playing mostly on-line on MSN, and SF4 isnt even really an official arcade in alot of countries, and everyone is playing so crappy.

everyone has become so obsessed with their online "rankings" that they are getting aweay with running cheese games.

cheese has now become the standard of gameplay, and people who play with class are now called "scrubs" by the cheeseheads.

People who choose the biggest and most powerful player in the game are now "the most skilled", whereas actually the person who picks the strongest player in the game actually does so because of lack of skill

comparing past street fighters to SF4 its clear that many things have taken a turn for the worse, and been overrun by the anonymity of the internet.

never has hitting in a stun state been considered "1337" gameplay until SF4. neither has doing the exact same move 8 times in a row on an opponent who is having difficulty blocking it ever been considered "skill" until SF4.

Neither has evening out the game by letting the oponent have a round or get in a few free hits ever been known as being the gameplay of "scrubs" until SF4

SF4 has somehow become the exact opposite of all other games, and its due to the "internet syndrome." where people can litereally get away with anything in the name of a higher score, which of course used to be known as scrub games and cheese.

SF4 and Windows Live have created a portal to a parallel gaming universe where everything is the exact opposite of what it actually is

and these kind of "free-stun-state wake-ups" and "friendly moves" etc are ways to bring balance back to the game.

honestly, i feel there is like a "SF4 Council" who has been deciding what is and isnt gameplay, and they have decided to be what would normally simply be the cheapest, cheesiest, most anal, unsportsmalike, petty, and insignificant scrub game-play on the planet. which has now somehow become the ONLY acceptable thing

which is unacceptable

Posted by Kage on September 29, 2009 at 12:31 p.m. #327

@Assassin: wow I thought it was just me. I USED to give the opponent the 2nd round - makes round 3 more exciting and pressures me to play well.

I didn't expect any thanks - but i certainly didn't expect the bad attidue.

Posted by ??? on September 29, 2009 at 1:53 p.m. #328

just my opinions

about beating up someone when they are stuned or the same moves being done over and over... i honestly dont have a problem with those things.... its just that if i get stunned..it means i should have been more careful... if i keep getting hit by the same moves over and over...shouldnt i try to at least adjust to it? it would be my fault for letting that happen

i think anything goes...because no matter what, its up to the person/player to not let those things happen...

im going to take hadoken spammers as an example....i love them...i really do...cause most of them dont seem to know that i can jump over them or fly through them with the EX Sky High Claw

Posted by Assasin on September 29, 2009 at 5:21 p.m. #329

don't get me wrong, constant Haddokens is weak, but not cheap. theres a difference. which why I also advocate for there to be a charge "Kata" and an additional 3rd meter which must be filled by charging, (performing a move on the control panel in your free time, much like taking off vegas claw) except the move can be done during heated battle, and the meter gradually decreases with every fireball.

I think the Focus Attack move should charge a 3rd "Ki" meter (internal power meter) every time it is used, which will then build the amount of projectiles that can be thrown. so its either only for projectile players, or everyone in the gamee maybe given a projectile, even as small as Dan's or smaller even, some thrown like Guokens, others even lower then Sagats, etc. because an infinite supply of fireballs seems holllow and meaningless when the SF4 graphics can animate so well, the fireballs should be more powerful, and show power being built and thrown every time, for guile, shotos, chun-li, and Dhalsim, at least

but there are moves in the game which can be done repeatedly on certain characters without a powerful wakeup move, such as Giefs and Abels throws, and few others that can be repeated until the match is over without the oponent able to get out of the cycle, which is fine because its always been that way, the only difference is that now its termed 'leet skill'

and thankyou Kage, giving the opponent the 3rd round is the most fundamentally enjoyable aspect of streetfighter. especially at the arcade, there is no way that I am ever going to sit there and kick the crap out of everyone without high-level gameplay without gving them a free round. Because i just dont like to take people's money, want them and me to enjoy a full 3 or 5 round match.

when i was learning at the arcade, i was a total noob who didnt even know how to throw or focus atack, but everyone i played used the full force of their high-level game play both rounds, everytime, as cheap as they could possibly be

now that I am a top level competitor i play people who i am far better than all the time, and I would never just wipe them out 2 rounds in a row, time after time.

I sat there yesterday playing a guy who spent the equivolent of like 50 dollars playing me, simply because i am a cool player and I always let him win a round and I never annhialted him, but the kept the rounds close and interesting. i didnt just stand there and let him beat me up either, i let him work on his game play, and occasionally i just lost and switched characters in rder to balance out the money he was spending with the amount of time i was playing. which is what everyone does and enjoys about SF, until the SF4/ Windows Live marriage I think SSF4 needs to drop Windows Live and support other more neutral technologies which dont focus the whole thing on scores and points but just allow regular arcade gameplay in a better environment

Posted by Assassin on September 29, 2009 at 5:41 p.m. #330

in fact, SSF4 should come as a raw game package built ony for Arcade game play, without all the meaningless rankings, which simply makes doofs like balrog and the most cheesiest things the most popular stuff in the game.

99% of all video games in the world (including all previous SFs) have a top player by the name of "AAA" because nobody gives acrap about the meaningless score which doesnt take into account gameplay at all

the damage is done, let SF4 always be for people who need high scores in life. But let SSF4 have nothing to do with those insecurities and be a solid arcade interface, with nothing more than a name, a 3 letter name would be better.

Posted by Assassin on September 29, 2009 at 8:24 p.m. #331

honestly, i felt that it was just because i needed to get better too, but in fact, SF4 is created very biased towards Ryu, Sagat and a few others

for example: Ryu can uppercut two times and EX spin and he throw out is Ultra AND his Super in a single combo, i think the creators overly favored Ryu.

Chunli can no-shadow kick the crap out of you 2 times, then flying spin kick you, EX ground spin kick you, and then perform her ultra, and i'm sure i'm missing about 5 other things tied into her combos. they are literally endless with one powerful multi-hit move after another.

Balrog boxer is simply over powered and given moves which hit way too many times for his power

and what does Vega have? nothing which even compares in the slightest to those others combos.

Dhalsim, Abel, C Viper, Rufus, Sagat, Ken, Akuma, all have awesome combos compared with Vega, Guile, Blanka and El Fuerte

i think the creators of SF4 just figured noobs would always think they needed to improve, rather than realizing what everyone realized, that only a few characters in the game are given the combos to actually compete

and SF4 is all combo-ased, so why is it that only Ryu as a couple others have all the combos and there are so many characters with crap for combos?

it seems someone with an obsession for Ryu to win created SF4, then created Sagat and and a few others to mask his inequality in design, and then left the rest twising in the wind to become his own personal fodder

Posted by Dave on September 29, 2009 at 8:34 p.m. #332

I don't want to spend money every time i want to play ssf4.

Its nice to have a commonplace for ssf4 fans to gather and share strats and such. But if it came down to either the arcade or console, I choose the console.

I'll host at my house for people to gather if needs be.

I see what you're saying Assassin, there really is no good vibe with most online players, and bad mentality aswell.

I, however, have had the good fortune of playing great fighters online who have good attitudes towards friendly compitition.

Don't get me wrong, online parties don't compare to a room filled with competiters when it comes to a great experience. But its still not all that bad either.

Posted by Dave on September 29, 2009 at 9:09 p.m. #333

@ Assassin

Its true that characters are over-powered. But I understand why capcom might have given characters some of the movesets they have.

Vega, for example, has pretty much no use of his focus dash cancel, other than mix up games with his crystal flash (which in itself is really somewhat foolish). His focus attack is also somewhat slow for being a character known for speed.

Yet he does have moves that are more useful than initially thought.

Key examples :

1. EX Sky high claw (towards opponent) - great for crossing over attacks, especially when their back is close to the wall. They basically have a split second to block it. Most players assume that its the EX walldive, and hold back to block, only to have it transition to holding towards claw as he crosses sides. Also usful as a final chip damage strike.

2. EX Walldive (Towards distant opponent) - great for when you're winning and your opponent wants to get close to get even. It comes out so quickly that if your opponent is trying to dash in close to close the gap, they'll get hit. Backflip to lure them in and then use it, they'll definitely get hit.

Also great for a final chip damage strike if they are turtling. Even if they somehow avoid it by crouching, just bloody claw them after you bounce off the wall. Position yourself right above them so they dont know which way to counter. Useful for shoto's

If the character counters with a downward charge move (headbutt, flash kick, etc.) just crossover to one side at the last second. The reversal atack will come out on the opposite side, but they'll still get hit with the bloody claw.

3. Rolling crystal flash - Great to mix up after light and medium pokes. The light version does 27 chip damage and the fierce version does 42 chip damage, which is equivilant to Sagat's Tiger uppercut chip damage.

Not only does it do the same amount of chip damage as Sagat's tiger uppercut, but its safe on block aswell. Mix both the fierce and light versions into your poking game to annoy your opponent.

Posted by Kage on September 29, 2009 at 9:18 p.m. #334

@ noob

Hey found that youtube video for a combo into Vega's _super_. Gonna try to work on this tonight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9ZWf0...

Posted by Dave on September 30, 2009 at 12:53 a.m. #335

Thats pretty neat, but no need to practice it. I just tried it out, took a liitle time but i got it.

Its a waste of super bar lol

Posted by Jink on September 30, 2009 at 12:57 a.m. #336

SF4 is a fighting game, everything goes. Spamming for winning is not a bad thing, its being a smart player. Not hitting stunned opponents with the biggest damage you can pull on them, is not being smart.
Fighting games are about; knowledge, timing, calculated gambles, reflexes, luck, and patience.
Holding back against your opponents is an insult to them.
Giving everything you got, no mater what, is fair.

If I stun my opponents, they better pray that I do miss my punishment, because I'm going to make it hurt for sure.

Playing to the max level, is applying everything you know you can do, under any presented situation. If I have something to win a match with, why limit myself from applying it? Playing to the max, is not about being "brave", is not about being "just"... playing to the max, is about being smart.

A good martial artist is not defined by his offenses, but by his defense. A fighter's attacks are defined by his fighting style, but a fighter's defenses are defined his OWN reactions against the unexpected. Be adaptive.

Posted by Jeremie on September 30, 2009 at 1:15 a.m. #337

@ Jink

i totally agree with you....thats like telling a boxer not to finish off a dazed opponent...you just have to finish what you started... play to ones fullest or dont play at all

Posted by Assassin on September 30, 2009 at 2:51 a.m. #338

except that it is unacceptable in any sport fight to hit an opponent who is unable to defend himself or fight back, or unaware of what is happening, whether its American boxing, Kickboxing, Olympic Fighting sports, Mixed Martial Arts Tournaments, or any martial arts tournament, or the UFC. its simply unethical behavior and is not being "smart" but is simply bad sportsmanship.

you wont even find that in underground streetfights such as in fightclubs etc.

the only time you will find that sort of behavior is when someone is out for blood, and then its usually a fight to the death, which is not SF4 play, as anyone who has read the stories, seen the cartoons, or knows anything about the SF4 story line, or can even read the dialogues between matches will reaffirm for you, it is not a blood match, b ut friendly sport fighting.

i've heard that argument alot, but its all nonsense from people who have no idea what a sport fighting is to justify their SF4 cheese. i there is an SF4 committee in charge of perpetuating such propaganda

and by "Arcade" i means console/ PC game play in a strict Arcade format, where you can select to go to a special screen to read the 3 letter abbreviations for champions on an obscure little list, but he actual game of SSF4 would be strictly "Arcade" style meaning no rankings and awards for cheese players who pick the strongest players in the game and ruin the whole gameplay just for own desires for points and recognition.

honestly i feel like its just a few people who have a following and influence who run cheese and claim to be the best, but its simply not possible that 1. running cheese games and 2. choosing the strongest character = equals a worthy opponent

but i think every characters FADC should be as useful as the shotos or Abels or the other players who were actually hooked up in SF4. what use is a FADC if you cant even combo with it

its ridiculous

Posted by Assassin on September 30, 2009 at 3:02 a.m. #339

and you arent offending anyone by NOT doing combos which could be done without the presence of your opponent. Some of the combos are so ridiculous that you might as well pack and go home after getting hit one time.

and to top off the insanely ludicrous combos which turn your game into a movie and you might as well just go and get some popcorn, they also go ahead and keep stun states, as if a 24 hit combo wasnt long and boring enough to watch, you were then also stunned, which in SF4 is like handing someone a free 24-hit combo, and stun states usually happen during a previous combo, and I have played several games where after I was hit one time i was dead and didnt even get to play any more.

and yet there are people out there who will actually try to tell you that that is 'good' for you, and is their responsibility. which is like saying its General Bisons responsibility to do that tick thrw thing he did until you are dead in SF2 championship. Its simply more propaganda from the SF4 propaganda committee responsible for brainwashing people into believing in cheese

Posted by Cowboy_soultaker on September 30, 2009 at 1:20 p.m. #340

my two-cents:

When I used to play Akuma hard core, back when SF4 first came out, a lot of people didn't know you could avoid Raging Demon on wake-up. So if I saw they couldn't avoid it, I'd stop. I didn't know it was avoidable myself till later anyway. I'd throw the second round sometimes to keep it interesting like you said, Assassin.

Now, I've dropped akuma and picked up claw and I fight my brother, and he's really good at it. If he ever throws me a round, I am furious about it, because I'm not the same fighter as the people just picking up the game, I dont' need a pity round. If he pulls punches that hurts my claw strat in the long run because I'm adjusting to the pulled punches.

There is a happy medium, and I'm sure you'd agree with me. I get too competitive, personally, because SF has been with me for years, and people are just now picking it up and already better then me. But if you're sliding in a quarter or putting the disc in for the first time that competitive spirit isn't really ignited yet, and you could be discouraged before 15 minutes passes.

Cheese wins, that is how most on the PC get to g3-a and probably g2. It is a terrible feeling setting down the controller/joystick and thinking "I was the better player, but because this person new a few tricks they won". Whats worse is, the fact that these types of players are getting beyond g3 with their tactics. (or perhaps they are just trolls). But the good outweighs the bad i think, SF4 has rekindled a lot of fires, and started some new flames, and thanks to that we can look forward to SSF4.

PS: DF-MK, as someone said earlier, MUST become and overhead. That little change could help quite immensely.

Posted by Jeremie on September 30, 2009 at 3:44 p.m. #341

mind you...i said "dazed"

i will take UFC as an example...when someone gets knocked down from a hit...and they are still able to defend..but feel a little dazed...doesnt the other fight jump right on and start atttacking to finish it? thats all i was getting at

but that aside...cause i also see your point

when i FADC with Claw...i usually throw...or dash back when my combo is blocked...and actually if im not mistaken...after a FADC if you are close enough you can hit then with a crouching LP to start another combo...

even then....its better to save up the meter for any of his EX Attacks

Posted by Jink on September 30, 2009 at 3:58 p.m. #342

@Assasin: Stand truth to your name.

Ethics? This is a video game, no one gets hurt. In real fighting, hitting a dazed opponent is wrong, because permanent mental/physical damage is present. The moment they are unable to defend themselves, the fight is over. The stunned opponent is declared the loser of the match.

In fighting games with stun possibilities, when players get stunned, the fight continues. That's what the Life bar is for in fighting games. Empty life bar = K.O. end of the round, end of the fight.
Stuns are part of the gameplay's reckless/cautious punishment/reward system. If you got stunned, you deserve what coming up, if you stunned your opponents, they deserve what coming up.

Imagine, getting stunned by a player during an awesome match, then all of the sudden, he jabs you. (think about it) You got your self stunned, your opponent could have hit you hard or finish you, but all you get, is pity. Unacceptable, now that... is unethical.

The other thing is, stuns don't happen that often during matches involving good players. Each one of them is trying to win the match, they are balanced during the fight, they are both a threat to each other, one of them gets stunned... "Oh sh1t, I manage to stun him, this is it, I must not screw up now"

Otherwise, leaving your opponent that chance, might mean the end of your participation on that fight, gathering, bracket, or/and tournament. You lose, period.
Most players don't get this idea at first, but playing for fun truthfully, is accomplished by playing to win.

Wanting to win at all cause, is what makes you and your opponents, to get smarter, to get better.
Holding back = depriving them and yourself from knowledge through first-hand experience. "Is not fair, I wanted to see what you could have done to me, so I could learn from it and become stronger."

The world's top players don't brag themselves about this and that... they give props to each other, they get better.

About playing cheesee and spaming labels: (to anyone who think this way) stop crying and get better, learn from the player who spams against you. Give them from their own medicine.

In the end is not the player's fault who wants to master all-there-is in a fighting game, and finding something that makes him near invincibly. Is the developers fault for not doing enough test with real top-player.

"If its there, and legal, use it." As long as everyone can remember, doing big combos has never involved inputting cheat/code passwords before a match (Except in MK3).

Posted by Jink on September 30, 2009 at 3:58 p.m. #343

@Assassin: I'm not criticizing you, its your decision. I'm just stating the competitive fighting facts. When I was 18 (younger, etc/long time ago) I use to let anyone get back to the ring in SmashBros. I use to not do combos at all in SF3, I used not to do traps in GGXX. I used not do Ring Outs in SC.
When I was young... I used to think like that, ethics...
When I was young... I used not give my best.
When I was young... I got very behind.

I'm 25 now, and I kick ass using the lowest tier in fighting games. Contra!!

Its time to grow up. Everything goes!

Play to win = playing for fun. Enjoy.

Posted by cowboy_soultaker on September 30, 2009 at 4:09 p.m. #344

I agree with pretty much everything jink. People have the right to be upset about cheese. But on the other side I think people who lose to such players (including myself) are more upset with ourselves for losing, for the very reason you pointed out. We didn't adjust our strat and punish them for it.

Also, to your second post, i played the exact same way. SF4 is the first fighter i researched, read and practiced with. You gotta play all out all the time, because who knows, the guy you gave a few punches to could be a huslter and sweep the next 2 rounds.

Posted by Assassin on September 30, 2009 at 10:50 p.m. #345

well, unlike you, I grew up playing SF2 as part of my daily life since its release in the arcade.
well, so what is it? a moment ago it was all about the "real martial artists" and now its "just a game get over it"

no thanks, I would prefer to have the game changed, the programming, the pixel animation and rules.

I played it about every single day of my highschool life,. along with SF2 championship, Hyperfighting and Turbo. I'd stop at any arcade or gas station or convenience store or movie theater with a game every place i went, usually playing at 4 or 5 different locations per day.

never in all my billions of matches did anyone hit me in a stun state. i can ony remember about 2 times, and those people quickly learned not to. the difference with SF4 is everyone is hiding at home on windows live in their basement where they can pretend to be einstein and the incerdible hulk combined and make 10001 excuses for their "mommys basement" ethics.

and the point i am trying to make is that while its 'just a game', there are real actual people you are playing. but that doesnt even register in the minds of people hiding our it the basement, hence their cheeseball playstyles.

Vega was made weak, designed weak, and not given any cool combos, where as Ryu and severl others were seem to have been given the combo play style SF4 was designed for, where as players like Vega were made to be less than competitive.

i dont know anyone who has won a tournament with Vega, Elfuerte, Dhalsim and several others. they arent even playing the same game Ryu is. where are all the combos and super moves that link to other super moves with one EX after another.

stun states are fine in SF2, when all your opponent could do was get in a spinning pile driver or a 4-hit uppercut

Stun states do not belong in a game where one hit leads and combos to another and link to others and the player is unable to do anything until the next stun state.

stop trying to validate weak playning styles, you cannot excuse the unexcusable. it needs to be fixed. either stun states need to be removed or there needs to be friendly wake ups which of course would have the effect of making everyone who super combos stunned players simply appear weak. and it seems there is a significant portion of the SF4 player population who really has some kind of fear of appearing weak.

Posted by Assassin on September 30, 2009 at 10:51 p.m. #346

i think there are alot of people who have created their fighting philosophies AFTER SF4 was released, to ry and justify the games inequalities and weaknesses

and what is their usual answer??? "get better", while the only players they use are Balrog, Gief, Ryu, and Sagat.

stop it already, SF4 needs "fixing" but players shouldnt expect video games to be perfectly flawless, no previous street fighter was, the only difference is that now all the players can hide out and do whatever they want in complete anonymity, when all they are actually getting away with is poor playmanship.

I blame windows Live for creating an environment where people actually believe that "scores" are significant.

when in fact, a Balrog, Chun Li, or Ryu or Sagat with 10000 wins is in no way a better player than a Vega with 100.

you cannot bust out rankings on a game with such strong inequalities. Capcom admitted it themselves, certain characters were simply not allowed to be made strong enough to be consistent winners. they were not allowed because Capcom wanted a Ryu Dominated game and wouldnt except a Vega dominated game

Posted by Assassin on September 30, 2009 at 11:15 p.m. #347

the main problems with the character inconsistencies lie in combos. some players like Sagat, Ryu, and ChunLi are literaly able to combo practically until a stun state. I honestly feel Stunstates were only kept in SF4 so that some of those characters had an end to their combos, otherwise some of those combos simply wouldnt end.

I think every character in SF4 should be given the same amount of EX combos and normal hit combos. If Ryu can hit X amount of times, so should Dhalsim be able to, and if Ryu can link his Ultra and his Super, so should El Fuerte and every other player, and if Chun Li can link 3 EX moves together, so should every other character in the game be able to.

because honestly the whole "get better" approach to solving problems is actually just a funny joke used by people who use those characters with limitless combos

the truth of the matter is, and cannot be hidden anymore, at this late stage of the game, is that even if every character is played at their full max potential, flawlessly, the same unbalance still exists

Posted by Assassin on September 30, 2009 at 11:24 p.m. #348

Vega should be able to link an EX scarlet terrot to an EX flying barcelona hit, wall cancel to EX bloddy claw, cancel to EX Crystal Rolling Flash, Canel to Ultra

and Super linked to Ultra

and short punch to medium punch to short kick to medium kick to piece of mercury to cosmic heel

if he can do all of that, go ahead and keep the stun states, and lets go to town

Posted by Assassin on September 30, 2009 at 11:33 p.m. #349

or rather ultra linked to super

then he will be the exact same as those other characters.

the reason people like getting away with theat crap is that is becasuse many players CANT do it

lets make all Characters on par with Ryu for combos, shall we? will u be such a big proponent of limitless combos then?

i think not

Posted by Assassin on September 30, 2009 at 11:40 p.m. #350

how would you feel about this combo?

short punch x2 , short kick, medium punch, medium kick, forward HK, Piece of Mercury, to Cosmic Heel to EX scarlet terror to EX flying barcelona to Izuna Drop to EX blodody claw to EX crystal rolling flash to Ultra

that would simply make the combos even.

Posted by Jeremie on September 30, 2009 at 11:54 p.m. #351

but isnt that the reason SF4 has damage scaling? for combos that are lengthy? and that continue off of stuns?

i just want to know what exactly the problem is...is it stun hits...lengthy combos...lack of chained attacks?

the only thing i see that Vega needs an upgrade on are his super and ultra...and if Scarlett Terror had some invulnerability frames...

but thats just me and my opinions

Posted by Jeremie on September 30, 2009 at 11:56 p.m. #352

i guess thats a nice combo and it would be nice to see anything like that in game...but we have to use what we have for now...until we do get an upgrade

Posted by Jink on October 1, 2009 at 10:19 a.m. #353

@Assassin
LOL XD Dude, grow up. Don't take personally.
I also play all fighting games since I was a kid. My first fighting game was SF2, then MK. Both I played on their release days on Arcade.
I played competitively at many different Arcade rooms, Arcade tournaments, etc. I never expect mercy, and I never had it from anyone. Swallowing (mutual) pity, is not my thing, heheheh.

I always played against grown ups who used to not even let kids play. But with time, and dedication, I earned there recognition and respect. I rarely played someone at my own age. I was called: "The kid that never quits."

Since 1992, when I was 8 years old (factual), I grow up playing: SF2(A3,3,4), MK, MK2, MK(3,4), WorldHeros, SamuraiShowdonw(2,3,4), KillerInstinct(2), VirtuaFighter2(4,5), SoulEdge(SB), SC(2,3,4), DOA(1,2,3,2U), GG(X,XX,XXS,XXAC), SSB(M,B), FightersDestiny, Tekken4(5), EternalChampions(LOL), etc. and I didn't liked MvC, CvS, MB(garbage), and HnK.

I even stop playing other game genres, for playing fighting games. n_n

XD XD so there you have my "resume" LOL. All played on face2face, live-action gatherings, tournaments, and long trip challenges, but no money matches (dam, I wish that I was young again).
I have to thank you Assassin, you've made me remember a lot of good times, thanks. ;)

Assassin, buddy... its simple, you have your way, but everyone has there own ways too. You can't go around saying this-and-that just because it doesn't fits you. Don't promote people into being like a certain way, especially when facts are not involved. All I'm saying is, that everyone has the right to play to the fullest. Regardless of the hate they might get for being too good.

It happens... some will hate you and stay behind, but others will respect you and then, they'll get better than you (sh1t, heheheh).

Playing to the fullest is not wrong. Giving pity and mercy can be ok sometimes, but it is not smart to practice such thing that will not help you and your opponent to get better, period.

About the martial art example, it was just an example. Read about the history, so you'll see the first purpose of martial arts, then you'll understand my examples.
I have a bad tendency of talking advice, assuming people might know at least some reference... but I guess not everyone is as old as I am. :(

By the way, it sucks, getting older, just takes you away and away from the good things. Too much "responsibilities." :( (blah, My a$$)

Assassin, just be cool. ;) This is a game, no one gets hurt, its trial-and-error, its everlasting, its ever changing, IT IS... NON-STOP-CHALLENGING. The harder it gets, the better and more fun it is.

In the end, the smarter wins.

Posted by Jink on October 1, 2009 at 11:35 a.m. #354

@Assassin
I forgot to add in my "resume" (XD), my characters:

SF2) Ken, Guile. SFA3) Charlie. SF3 Alex. SF4) Vega.

MK) Kano, Scorpion, Sonya. MK2) KungLao, Scorpion, Raiden, LiuKang. MK3) Cyrax, KungLao, Sector. MK4) QuanChi, Scorpion, Jareck, Sonya, Raiden, LiuKang.

GG up to XXAC) Ky.

KI) Orchid, Saberwolf.

SSB up to brawl) Link.

SE up to SC4) Siegfried.

DOA) JannLee.

SS) Galford.

EC) Shadow.

Tekken) Lee.

FD) Ninja, Robo.

VF2) Lion. VF4) Lion, LeiFei, Akira, Sarah. VF5) Lion, Kage, Akira, Sarah, Vanessa, LeiFei. (I love Virtua Fighter, I think is the most competitive fighting game, too bad most people are scare of ti).

I don't like top tiers.

Posted by Jink on October 1, 2009 at 1:46 p.m. #355

When SF4 was announced and I saw the trailers, I decided that Vega was the main. Weeks later, he happens to be low tier.

This is my story in term of character selection, I chose my character for the looks, resemblance, etc. Then I adapt to the required play style. Its only my luck that most characters I chose end up being low to bottom tiers. But that doesn't stop me. I never quit.

I hate simple characters like Paul Phoenix, Mitsurugi, etc.
In reality, TopTier = Easy to win with, and LowTier = hard to win with.

But not always is like that, some characters can become pretty beasty with the proper skills.

Among my list, I consider Ky to be the highest tier that I've chosen to play with, and still he isn't a TopTier.

I don't like easy things, I play hardcore; Contra, Ikaruga, Gradius5, MarsMatrix, Raiden, Battletoads, Kid Icarus, Ninja Gaiden, AstroTripper, DMC, God Of war, etc.

I hate easy games like all RPGs, no sweat required.

Vega in SF4 = Hard mode. ;) LowTiers overall = Hard Mode.
And is true, about same skill not over compensating balance at the deepest level, but... calculated gambles and luck are one half of what goes on during battle. That's why knowing what one can do at fullest is important; "because knowing... is half the battle."

Posted by Th3 JoK3R J on October 1, 2009 at 5:10 p.m. #356

@ Jink

"I hate simple characters like Paul Phoenix"

Haha I laugh at that silly comment you made.

Posted by Assassin on October 1, 2009 at 9:09 p.m. #357

alright you guys, that's pretty cool stuff, those were some good days. I was 15 when SF2 came out. there is no getting older. i'm breaking all the rules and I'm just going to stay a cool SF player all my life.

I always play low-tier players simply because I hate injustice and always go for the underdog. I began sf4 with Akuma but i simply felt too weak using such an awesome character to defeat people who braved the waters with Dhalsim, Blanka, El Fuerte, Abel, Honda etc. and there were alot of those players in the arcades where i played, and they chose those players simply because some of hte other players were too powerful. So I decided to switch to Elfuerte and Abel, who i really wasnt very good enough to win with.

I wasnt really good enough with Akuma either because I was waiting for teh PC version whereas everyone in the arcades had the console version at home to practice with. So I chose Vega and i started winning against some pretty good players without having to learn any combos, just by using old-school gameplay. and I got so good with him he became my main and my akuma doesnt even compare to him, but the more i learned about sf4 gameplay the less i wanted to use Akuma and stick to some underdogs.

Now I am probably going back to Akuma as a 2nd in order to have a combo-based character.

my main complaint is that all the characters aren't combo based. I have been through all of vegas trials several times and I am not impressed with any of them, in fact, i just find them so boring and weak I never bother to use them

I understand the damage scaling, but the fact is that some characters GET to hit you over and over and over to a stun then to finish whereas most other characters don't thats total crap. the draw about SF4 is the combos and links, but what does Blanka, Honda, Dhalsim, Vega Elfuerte, Ken, and Abel really have? nothing at all compared to Ryu, Balrog, Sagat, ChunLi, etc. most of those players can combo from one EX move to another and catch you with their supers and ultras at the very end of their combos.

its just not what i expect from such an advanced game as SF4

but Ken has always been powerful, now Ken is one of the weakest in the game. whats up with that? and Blanka and Honda were always able to compete with Ryu and usually win, but now they really cant at all.

there is just extreme bias in SF4, and i have been over to Capcom USA and i I'm pretty sure there was some sort of homosexual agenda behind it all .. hence Thailand's upgrade.

but thats all hearsay

Posted by Assassin on October 1, 2009 at 9:35 p.m. #358

but i cannot agree with it being useful or helpful

I sat there at the arcade yesterday and I saw a Sagat player sweating bullets as he pulverized a Honda 3 rounds in a row (5 round matches)

it just made me sick, literally, to seee an underdog player get no respect at all. the code is that you respect the underdogs for choosing them. but this Sagat player did several things which don't belong in the game:

1. he spammed fireballs as if he were playing against the Almighty himself, and against a player like Honda, thats unacceptable behavior, especially when you have already kicked the crap out of him for 2 rounds.

2. he relelntlessly did his combos one after the other and performed his ultra even when he was near getting a perfect for the 3rd time, which is unacceptable behavior. there is no skill required in doing Sagats 2x roundhouse to ultra at all, its a move that bo matter how many times you do it, you will not ooze skill, nor will u ever get better.

proper 'etiquette' for any warrior, would have been to use moves which didnt enter some automatic phase and hit the pother character 20 times, at which point neither player is learning anything and growing and development cease

I will tell u what it looks like, it looks like the player literally has some psychological/ social problems which cause him to be very stingy, petty, and small-minded, not to mention small-hearted.

thats all it looks like, even the guys girlfriend who was sitting right next to him felt disgusted and embarrassed with his behavior, perplexed at why he couldnt have made a more enjoyable game, and she was somehow dating the cheapest, most petty man in town.

by all accounts, it should be embarrassing for the player, but for some reason its not, perhaps he thinks he's in some sort of therapy session, and deserves it because of some injustice that's been done to him.

Posted by Assassin on October 1, 2009 at 9:36 p.m. #359

and learning only happens when someone is challenged and given opportunities to grow. I was a martial Arts instructor for many years, and I am now a university professor. the learning process needs to have egos set aside, and playersneed to be given lessons they can leanr from and oportunities to perform to the best of their ability. in SF4 gameplay that means NOT spamming no less than 1 millin fireballs at an upcoming Honda player. there is nothing to be learned there. it also means not holding your opponent in a motionless state while you go to town on him. noone will ever go from beginning to advanced simply by you beating the crap out of them. pulverizing themwhile they are turtled up on the ground.

nor are they going to leanr anything as your rush them and hit them 35 times out of the blue with your best effort..

its just never going to happen

the goal is not to destroy them, you will soon enough be faced with worthy opponents stronger and better than you who want you dead.

the goal is to create a warrior who has skill and experience and time perfecting his own skills.

as an instructor, you can only ever take battle to what the student is prepared for.

a 10th degree Grandmaster is not going to walk up to the guy who just came in off the street for a lesson and send him to the hospital not even knowing what just happened to him.

it doesnt work that way. the Master will take battle up enough only to challenge the student within the bounds of what the student can learn from and also be able to use the skills he has learned adequately, only what will bring out those skills in practical use in comboat..

and what happened to that Sagat player later? his eyes welled up with tears as Akuma arrived and kicked the crap out him 3 rounds in a row and he was barely able to move.

its a vicious cycle which breeds malice and contempt and hurt feelings and has no end. which is not what a video game is all about

Posted by Assassin on October 1, 2009 at 10:23 p.m. #360

playing with someone during battle or a fight is a sign of far greater skill than the bruteforce attacker, is far more respectful than the brute-force attakcer, and far more beneficial, and is no way insulting except to those with a poor sense of sportsmaship

one of the greatest, if not the greatest warriors in all of the Roman empire was a competitor in the Ancient Olympics fighting competition who was the undefeated champion of his time and never threw a punch.

He was qucik and skilled and expert enough of a fighter than he could duck or dodge every strike an opponent through at him and he always won from sheer exhaustion of the other man. He could do battle from sun up to sun down, all day long, without getting hit.

was that 'insulting' to the other man? his ego maybe, but who cares, that was a master of masters, the ultimate egoless warrior

Posted by Jink on October 1, 2009 at 10:56 p.m. #361

Then don't complain, just play. Have fun.

If you like combo based characters, use combo based characters. In SF4, Vega has his goods. Its just different to play with. Remember, this is not MvC2, this is SF4. As bad as things might go sometimes, I still enjoy playing as Vega, for me is not boring at all.

Whenever my opponent is in front of me, I keep them at Claw distance. 2MP, 3HK, FA, HK, or 2MK, works for that.
If my opponent jumps, I dash under them, and punish with 2HP or 2HK. And if is not a shoto, I do 3HK to try and catch them.

Whenever I hit with 3HK, I always combo with h-ST, 3-hits good damage, charges SC bar well, and gives me good wake up advantage.

During opponent's wake-ups, I use 3HK as placement cross-up, it doesn't hit-cross opponents, but it leaves you behind, and close to them. I follow with cl-HP, 2MP, EX-WD-Izuna, that's 5-hit solid combo, out of a made-up cross-up.
The situation was reset too. I can do the same thing, but my opponent can use FADC, SRK if it is a shoto, etc. to escape.

In cases like that, I wait at "safe-from-throw" distance, guard against their interruption attempts, and punish it depending what they did, how fast I spot it, and depending my SC and Ultra meter.

My toughest opponents are the ones that knows about Vega bad hit priority. They just sit back and interrupt everything I throw at them. When I'm aware of this, I sit back and safely charge SC meter, by doing consecutive l-ST, Kx3, l-ST, Kx3...

EX is very valuable for Vega. For me, having EX all the time is a must. The first chance I get build up, I do it.

I use taunt #2 to call up opponents into falling for EX-WD traps. Taunt #2 has the right timing for charging, imo.

If I have Ultra meter, and I hit my opponent with FADC on CHit or Lv2, I combo with the Ultra afterward. There's no reason to save up Ultra.

A basic set-up I use: 2MK (blocked at long range, +2) 3HK. If my opponent tried to attack, he gets hit by 3HK, if he stood still, the 3HK whiffs and I grab him.

Standing LK pokes, are very effective for cornering opponents, you can loop LK, or do 2MP.

If Sagat does p-TS, I do 2HK to slide under it. Slides are very good in SF. If Sagat does k-TS, I jump straight (safe from Sagat's HK), WD, or EX-Drill if I have EX.

Posted by Jink on October 1, 2009 at 10:56 p.m. #362

Vega has his ways to beat opponents, it might be hard and near impossible sometimes, but there are ways.

One time, against a Ryu, I used FA's parry to charge Ultra from HDKs, it was the second round, I took of my mask with 623PP, I hit him with FADC on CHit, then I combo with Ultra. I killed him, heheheh. It was a big "unnecessary" risk, but it worked.

I just don't quit, never. Its fun and challenging for me. That's why I still use Vega.

Another thing I don't like about SF4 overall is, that on cross up situations, if the play who was about to get crossed, does a SRK, forward, the gameplay automatically turns them to the opposite direction, where the cross up is suppose to land. In previous SF games, to do that, one must input the move toward the crossing direction, example: SRK backwards. But now, it is an automatic thing, it sucks.

I'm hoping that Capcom fixes this.

Posted by Jink on October 1, 2009 at 11:15 p.m. #363

Nice Vega videos here:
http://www.youtube.com/user/spartasan

Posted by cowboy_soultaker on October 2, 2009 at 9:44 a.m. #364

@assassin
you obviously are passionate about what you're talking about, and i think you shouldn't change how you play for anybody. but trying to indoctrinate a videogame is going to have stiff resistance [as people will argue "it's just a game"]. You bring up the point of console/pc vs. arcade, that people hide behind anonymity, and that bears for the other argument, as well. you can't tell if someone's trolling/hustling or if they're legitimately new/inexperienced [over the internet]. In arcades it's probably a lot easier to tell if someone's struggling, and I doubt anybody would have the guts to troll/hustle (although your sagat story proves this is no absolute). I kind of yearn for the type of matches you talk about, and in SSF4 it sounds like they'll have rooms for round robins, you could have those kind of matches with people you trust. btw, I lost faith in etiquette on sf4 when i'm constantly cross-picked by sagat (whom I normally beat) or tiger shot spammed in a player match.

@Jink
Thanks for posting those moves. I haven't given up on my vega either, because he's challenging, yes, but mostly because he is so unique. Also because I couldn't get the hang of gen :-(

Posted by Dave on October 2, 2009 at 1:36 p.m. #365

Each character has his own play-style.

Shotos rely on zoning and combo pressuring.

Rufus is all-out agressive

Viper is technical and mind games

Abel is a mixture of mind games and offensive pressure

Zangief is all about getting in close and not letting the opponent escape

Boxer is offensive pressuring and combo games

Seth is what i'd like to call a "careful offensive" character, due to his terrible stamina. He has the ability to do crazy combos up close, and to keep an opponent away effectively.

Claw is a defensive/counter character. He basically has only a few moves that could apply offensive pressure. Rolling crystal flash and cosmic heel. Pokes could be counted aswell, but i like to think of pokes as more defensive than offensive. He relies on the opponent making a mistake, countering, then getting to a safe distance.

Some playstyles are easier to master than others. I would put it in listform like so...

Shoto learning curve (ryu, ken, sagat, akuma) : Beginner

Offensive pressuring (rufus, boxer, zangief) : Intermediate

Turtle / Defensive counter (guile, E.honda) : Intermediate-Advanced

Mind Game Pressuring (Abel, Dictator, Seth, C.Viper, El Feurte, Gouken, Blanka, Cammy) : Advanced

Mind Games / Defensive counter / low teir (Claw, rose, gen, sakura, dhalsim, fei long) : Expert

Posted by yes4me on October 2, 2009 at 1:53 p.m. #366

How do you do the ULTRA from the other side of the screen?

Posted by Dave on October 2, 2009 at 2:17 p.m. #367

To do the ultra on your side of the screen the command is : charge d/b for 2 seconds, d/f, d/b, u/b+KKK

To do the ultra on the opponent's side...

Charge d/b 2 seconds, d/f, d/b, u/f+KKK

Posted by @367 on October 2, 2009 at 3:16 p.m. #368

Can't you do both with the db df db uf motion. Doesn't it go to your side if you tap uf and the opponent's side if you hold uf?

Posted by @Dave/365 on October 2, 2009 at 3:28 p.m. #369

Are your listings based on your gameplay only? Or are you just listing them in their tier order? Regardless neither list really matters imo cause you pretty much have to be an expert to truly master any character ( and even better to master their match-ups). Just cause a lot of beginners/scrubs use the shotos doesn't mean they can master them.
Side not I have yet to see a master/expert/even really good turtle guile/honda.
In my experience, if you get the advantage on these types of players and you back off and have them come after you, you'll see how crappy (lack of word choice) they are.

Posted by yes4me on October 2, 2009 at 3:29 p.m. #370

I don't know why but I have been trying for the past 2 hours to get that ULTRA on the other side and I just can't do it.
Here is what I done based on my input (training mode):

I am facing right.

TEST1: db,df,uf+KKK - LEFT SIDE
TEST2: db,df,db,df,uf+KKK - LEFT SIDE
TEST3: db,df,db,df,db,df,uf+KKK - LEFT SIDE
TEST4: db,df,db,ub.uf+KKK - FAILED
TEST5: db,df,u,f+KKK - LEFT SIDE
TEST6: db,df,u,f.KKK - FAILED

I am seriously out of idea.

Posted by yes4me on October 2, 2009 at 3:31 p.m. #371

I made a typo:

TEST1: db,df,db,uf+KKK - LEFT SIDE

Posted by Jink on October 2, 2009 at 3:43 p.m. #372

Vega's most useful tools (IMO):
1. Cosmic Heel for Cross-up hop: If Vega makes opponent to wake defending, mean they'll not try to attack with SRK, EX-invincibility, etc. because Vega punish them before for that, then hopping over them with CH is a must. Vega lands on their opposite direction and close to them, where point-blank combos are possible like; cl-HP,2MP,EX-WDID, or 2MK,h-ST, or 2MK,2LP,EX-WDID, etc. Remember, this is a gamble. Opponents can still interrupt this, but as meaty, Vega has better chance to not get interrupted. Pay attention to your opponent's EX-meter.

2. Light Scarlet Terror for building meter at mutual turtle-ling situations: If your opponents wait on you to come and kill yourself because they show they can interrupt most-to-all Vega's basic moves, back down a little and build your EX. Vega can do many l-ST quickly, just start charging again as soon as Vega did the first one. L-ST hops forward, Vega will get closer to opponent, Vega can do Kx3 or Px3 to back down into position, or, Vega can keep doing l-ST, get closer to opponent and hit, depending on what they might try.

The good thing about this technique is that Vega is always charging [1] (down-back). If a opponent tries...

...Fire ball, Vega can do WD, or flips to counter or avoid. Or EX-SHC for going through opponent's fire ball, since Vega was already building meter for that. Or EX-SHC for cross-up if opponents just sit there and watch.

..j.ump forward, Vega can do h-ST, depending on the height of the hit, an EX-ST might be possible, since Vega was already building meter for it.

3. Izuna Drop: Izuna Drop is a ground and air throw that has no escape command, and cannot be parried by FA, meaning is unavoidable if Mastered. Only things to consider are your opponent's early reactions, and moves SRKs. Apart from that, Izuna Drop is a good move for wake-ups, a Vega meaty-ing an opponent with ID, can be a pain.

more later, gtg...

Posted by @yes4me on October 2, 2009 at 4:57 p.m. #373

If you want to go off the opponents back just hold the uf.

Posted by yes4me on October 2, 2009 at 5:41 p.m. #374

I find out why... once you press KKK, you STILL have to hold the forward button. You can't go back too quickly to the db.

Posted by Dave on October 2, 2009 at 7:18 p.m. #375

@369

its based off learning curve and difficulty to use well

Example : I have used ryu less than half of how long i have used vega, yet i know that my ryu could destroy my vega because of hom ridiculously simmple-minded the gampley vs vega is.

all you have to do is keep doing jump-ins, cross ups, grabs on wake up. its a mindless strategy, any noob could it and beat a master Claw.

That why claw's learning curve is harder than ryu's, claw has to deal with no reversal, if he gets knocked down, he's screwed.

Posted by Jink on October 2, 2009 at 7:36 p.m. #376

Good Rose match, and videos at his channel:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlJ0RX...

Vega at Korean tournament vs Zangief:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRkRxg...

Posted by Th3 JoK3R J on October 2, 2009 at 11:34 p.m. #377

@Jink

Thanks for showing us these two great fights
especially the Vega fight.

Posted by @Dave/375 on October 2, 2009 at 11:47 p.m. #378

Me again. LOL. Its the exact opposite for me. I can't use ryu/ken/sagat to save my life. Akuma on a good day. And the ones listed as harder to learn come easier (some of them anyway) to me.
Oh my comment before was probably off topic on this thread. I wasn't really talking about claw. I just didn't agree with how you systematically grouped some characters to be played certain ways. Like a lot of characters in the defense counter part specifically sakura gen and dhal can be played pretty offensively and no need for good guiles and hondas to turtle. Don't know about claw. Don't use him much. I guess that list was intended to speak mostly about how claw has to be used.

Posted by Dave on October 3, 2009 at 12:35 a.m. #379

@ 378

Dhalsim is always defensive, his main purpose is to keep away the opponent at all costs. you rarely see dhalsims rushing down an opponent.

I guess he's more counter-defensive.

I don't claim to know everything about every character. The list was just a generalization of their playstyles. Any character can be used offensively, defensively, or mind-games-like.

What i listed was the playstyle most fitting in my view for each character.

And its funny what you said about not being able to use shotos.

Sagat is god tier and i cant use him for crap lol

Posted by Assassin on October 3, 2009 at 7:40 p.m. #380

@yes4me: I'm pretty sure you can do the ultra from charging forward as well, anyway, all you do is hold in any direction you want for 2 seconds then shake the joystick back and forth a little then up to the direction you want to go.

@cowboy_soultaker: round robins sound cool, without rankings. so long as people are more concerned with just playing and having a good time and not about their ranking, which is bullcrap anyway, the arcade I play at here has 8 consoles set up on a stage that are all linked, and the winner just plays the next available player, its alot of fun.

@Jink: since i live in China i cant see anything on youtube because they are all blocked, and there are no claw videos on any of the chinese sites, because honestly nobody believes Vega. I have seen killer footage of El Fuerte, Honda and Dhalsim, but nobody believe in Vega. I'm not kidding, I usually play expert players and completely annhialate them the first time they play me, then they put in some more tokens and try and play me for real, they really think claw is the easiest guy to beat, weakest in the game. So I have never seen anyone else play vega in SF4 except for a mirror match up i played recently, so I pretty much created my own play style, completely unaware of what anyone else is doing or what can/ should be done with him. I think it would be helpful. If anyone puts vega video on a non-youtube site, let me know, thanks.

Posted by Assassin on October 3, 2009 at 7:49 p.m. #381

@soul_cowboy: you know, the strange thing about all of that is that I think most of the SF4 play style was created or at least justified by people on forums claiming to be martial artists or claiming to know about fighting. thats the thing that really gets me.

@Jink: in my opinion, Vega should ALWAYS do the wall dive to builld ex meter rather than the Lscarlet terror, because the wall dive has the added and most importnat benefit in game play, building up a faking game by whiffing and faking, and also allows you to throw in a strike or a throw from time to time.

Posted by Assassin on October 3, 2009 at 8:04 p.m. #382

some other good strategies include:

1. Wall diving almost non-stop to build ex meter and fake out opponents.

2. for pokes, forward Medium Kick is the longest strike vega has, so i use vega in the same way i use dhalsim at approaching opponents, at the furthest distance I use MK, if they are slightly closer I use crouching MP, if they are slightly close i use HP

3. for wall dives, I like to mix it up, flying up at varying distances from the opponent then over, stalling for variousl lengths of time, then coming down at different places. Flying up and out normally and arriving at various distances from opponent, and then my personal favorite flying down and over as quickly as possible by holding down on the joystick iniitally then guiding over quite horizontally to the opponents head, then with some quick joystick action you land a throw (the most difficult way to throw i feel)

Posted by Assassin on October 3, 2009 at 8:14 p.m. #383

Also, moving forward and backwards alot to keep vegas prime distance is vitally important. it also makes vega alot taller and more intimidating.

and when people are throwing you when you do your full back flip, jumping backwards and striking is pretty useful, vegas vertical jump makes escaping by jumping very practical, and if that might not work, a LP first usually lets you jump back

for countering Focus Attacks, Forward and HK or HP are pretty useful for breaking FA's, only the first hit with your shoulders is armor-breaking with the LCRF, so it cant be used except pretty close, and Scarlet terror is armor breaking, if you arent charged and your are close, throw or kara throw, if you are a little further back, HP is the best option, if you are not close enough for HP then use HK or do your own FA or Back flip or dash forward and throw

one thing I really suck at is linking strikes in SF4. i cant seem to get the timing of alot of those strikes that have a window of only one frame for a link. anyone have any suggestions?

`

Posted by Assassin on October 3, 2009 at 8:18 p.m. #384

and one thing that i came to really appreciate this last week is the backwards dash, i was quite surprised how many attacks i escaped getting hit from, the hits went right through me. Eventhough Vegas back dash isnt very far, it can be very useful for initially escaping when people are trying to tick throw, throw, or jab combo you.

Posted by Assassin on October 3, 2009 at 8:22 p.m. #385

FA back dash absorbs a jab then lets you escape alot of times before the second ht comes

and something should be said for fighting without the claw, the game changes dramatically when you have no claw, suddenly all of your distances are screwed up. so if you have the opportunity, take off the claw at the beginning of the round and learn to play vega all over again as a clawless character. your entire strategy will have to change. I'm still leanring that myself, but I do use alot of jumping MK, MK, and HK, and i crouch alot less, and combos become alot more important

Posted by Assassin on October 3, 2009 at 8:50 p.m. #386

Wall Escapes: one of Vegas worst nightmares is getting backed in to a corner. So, when you are near a wall, instead of getting forced backwards with strikes, walk and dash backwards and half back flip to draw your opponent in at a semi-close distance, then jump off the back wall and go immediately to a full back flip. The back wall can be landed at different heights, as well, the lowest height is the fastest , they send off at different angles.

so whenever you feel a wall approaching, stop whatever you are doing and change your game to a distance & draw game to escape off the back wall to Full flip.

Posted by cowboy_soultaker on October 3, 2009 at 11:10 p.m. #387

Before I leave my last bit of advice, that really does pale compared to what others have posted already, I wish some of the others that I am interested in (fei long, gen) had the same zeal, let alone information, on their pages.

When playing at length you realize how the above is proved true, mixing up your game and not falling into repetition traps is crucial. i have played 15 minute sets and i've stopped pressure chars (ryu/ken/sagat) from pressuring me and into turtling, which is much more rewarding for them due to lack of priority. thats where the body language and mix-up comes in. it's a lot harder then it sounds, you say you will do it then when they do jump in mk for the 11th time you catch yourself doing the same flight technique and they just keep on coming. playing long bouts can also get you frustrated and impatient, causing you to *gasp* jump in on ryu!

btw, someone said it earlier but srsly, everyone can play pressure vs. vega. I fought c.viper in one of said bouts and she got off her hiney and pressured the bejesus out of me. I thought it was pretty funny

Posted by Kage on October 4, 2009 at 1:02 a.m. #388

Good non you-tube claw vid.

http://www.justin.tv/clip/f194b294baa...

Great clutch combo vs Dhalism around 3:40...

Note the slide (db - HK) cross over "glitch" used to cross-up Honda somewhere around 8:20 ish.

Wish I could play like that!

Posted by yes4me on October 4, 2009 at 3:41 a.m. #389

How do you FOCUS>dash back and ULTRA? It sounds pretty impossible.

Posted by Assassin on October 4, 2009 at 8:36 a.m. #390

Thanks for the video Kage.

I liked his Cosmic Heel to crouching MP

I liked his Cosmic Heel Cross ups

I liked the pressure he as able to apply with LK

He's got some nice stab combos around 3:90 with a FA + Fdash

LCRF to HK was nice

and i like the halfbackflip wduring the opponents FA

nice MK pokes

I will incorporate some of that into my game

I feel I am quite a much better Vega player than he was though.

I wish I had some video of my matchups today, i kicked the crap out of some really good Sagats and Ryus, and many Ken players as well. I was very surprised to find and excellent Ken player, the best i've seen to date. Ken's kicks stuff the crap out of Vegas Cosmic heel and most of his flying attacks.

Another move in that video which I was also using earlier today, was the EX CRF through Fireballs, i did it actually by accident today and i used it quite abit since. I dont know why it never dawned on me to use it before as an anti fireball move.

I dont agree with that players turtling and waiting at all, I think Vega becomes very weak when turtling and waiting.

and I cant believe How I didnt even see any throws in that video, I usually get in at least 5 normal or air throws per round, sometimes alot more.

overall i think the guy played a bit too risky, he was standing right in harms way most of the time against Honda, and seemed to over-estimate Vegas close game a bit and he was heavily punished for it.

I think he was working too hard on confusing an opponent with speedy moves but most opponents really arent so easily confused.

anyway, that was interesting and useful, thanks alot

Posted by Assassin on October 4, 2009 at 9:48 a.m. #391

@ Jink:

The auto correct really is for the benefit of charge characters like Vega, Honda, Guile, ChunLi, etc

sure it sucks when a "1/4 turn" character benefits from it, but its way more useful for charge characters, so you can still execute a charge move as your opponent tries a cross up kick.

I think the Auto Correct accompanies the new Cross-up kicks for the benefit of charge characters only, its just that sometimes other player benefit from it as well, which they really shouldnt, as its as easy to do their moves forward and backwards, but I really hate it when you are flying ver the opponent to slash them in the back from a wall dive and they accidentally uppercut you because of the auto-correct. if anything, it should just be turned off for everyone but charge characters.

Posted by cowboy_soultaker on October 4, 2009 at 10:08 a.m. #392

@yes4me
Tap the dash cancel and before the animation starts start buffering your charge. it takes 2 seconds to buffer, then execute. your opponent will almost be completely on the ground but as long as his head and a shoulder is up it usually hits.

Posted by Dave on October 4, 2009 at 10:10 a.m. #393

@ yes4me

Here is the trick for doing an ultra after a focus attack...

right before the focus attack lands, there are frames where you cannot cancel it. However, if you input the dash backwards command right before it hits, you will still dash backwards after it lands.

This gives you times to start charging the ultra early.

The command sequence should look like this...

1. Charge focus attack
2. claw begins the animation to strike (thrusting forward with claw)
3. immediately input the backwards dash command when you see claw's start animation for the attack.
4. After imputting dash back command, start charging for ultra

NOTE : Steps 3 and 4 should be completed before the focus attack even hits. This, accompanied by the freeze time when the focus attack hits, gives you added time to charge the ultra.

5. Wait for 1/4 of a second after having dashed backwards to finish the charge.
6. Finish ultra command.

It looks tough when you read it but it's quite simple when you get it down.

Posted by yes4me on October 4, 2009 at 12:14 p.m. #394

thank you both. That was very interesting.

Posted by Jink on October 4, 2009 at 2:14 p.m. #395

@Assassin
No youtube? That's bad :(
I remember other sites with videos, I'm going look for them, nothing guarantee, last time I check was a long time ago.
I see your point with the auto correct, charge characters only. Although they kind of always had them, at least in Down holding charges.

I also use fake-WD to build meter, and I provoke my opponents, to see their reactions at the same time. L-ST is faster to build meter. Both ways are good, and both ways work well depending on what the opponent does. If I'm l-ST building, if a fireball comes at me, I'm already charging for a WD, and probably soon enough to punish their attempt.
Both ways works good.

Vega vs Ryu match:
/watch?v=sxE1oBp84kM&feature=related

@Kage
Awesome video! That's how I play Vega lol, but that guy is better, more daring. Lol, DMC combos.
Sh1t, slide cross-up, that's new.
The only thing that "Tatsu" forgot to apply, was to punish Honda's Headbutt with HP. Vega's HP has the reach and speed to catch the recovery of Honda's HB.
Good matches, thanks Kage.

Posted by Jink on October 4, 2009 at 2:16 p.m. #396

Oops, dumb me. Here's the click-link to the Vega vs Ryu match:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxE1oB...

Posted by Assassin on October 4, 2009 at 6:57 p.m. #397

@Jink, ya, they're some clowns around here. Some very small-minded, petty, ignoramuses, who propagate ignorance, it's the friggin Dark Ages in China. the Dark Ages were dark only because of the Control of Information and banning of free informative reading materials and writings. I am exactly in the middle of the Dark Ages, darker than anything that happened in Europe. It sucks. I hope they die. Banning a vega match must be an unpardonable sin somewhere.

maybe you can write a bit about some strategy in those video, likes and dislikes, give you personal commentary on the match? thanks

Posted by Assassin on October 4, 2009 at 8:23 p.m. #398

well, i found some videos.

most of the videos of Vega are simply showing off some other characters moves,

these two are a little more how I play

http://v.youku.com/v_playlist/f279304...

http://v.youku.com/v_playlist/f279304...

Here's an example of why can't turtle with Vega:

http://v.youku.com/v_playlist/f279304... around 3:18

This has a nice 4th round.

http://v.youku.com/v_playlist/f354181... around 13:25

this one has some good aspects

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNDAxMzM...

here are a couple others

http://v.youku.com/v_playlist/f376604...

http://v.youku.com/v_playlist/f354181... around 12:10

alot of the Vegas are pretty crappy, one of the biggest signs these are beginners is they are not able to land the Izuna drop consistently

Posted by Assassin on October 4, 2009 at 8:48 p.m. #399

oops, sorry, that sucks, the URL's dont change with the videos in the play list, so here are the actual links

these two are a little more how I play

http://v.youku.com/v_playlist/f279304...

http://v.youku.com/v_playlist/f279304...

Here's an example of why can't turtle with Vega:

http://v.youku.com/v_playlist/f279304... around 3:18

This has a nice 4th round.

http://v.youku.com/v_playlist/f354181... around 13:25

here are a couple others

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNDAxMzM...

http://v.youku.com/v_playlist/f376604...

http://v.youku.com/v_playlist/f354181... around 12:10

Posted by Kage on October 4, 2009 at 10:07 p.m. #400

Came across this nice quality vid of Vega vs (Rufus and Ken).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwtaDt...

Aggressive style of play with good throw/counter-throw timing. Sorry assassin - only on youtube.

Posted by Assassin on October 5, 2009 at 9:54 p.m. #401

that's alright, I've heard Youku is blocked in America. Clowns everywhere.

Posted by Dave on October 6, 2009 at 12:48 a.m. #402

@Kage

That vega player resembles my style. Throwing in alot of rolling attacks. People under-estimate its chip damage.

He did make some silly mistakes though...most notibaly at 4:47 where he used the EX walldive when a simple medium kick would've won the round.

Funny how the announcers think it was the most amazing thing on earth lol.

Posted by Meteo on October 6, 2009 at 4:02 a.m. #403

Haha, Assassin if you wrote a book about all this I'd buy a copy.

Claw is definitely a character of mindgames. He forces people who are used to applying the same winning tactics every game to re-adapt each round against Claw in an arms race of psychological pressure. I couldn't agree more with the comments about having to remaster him for every matchup and playstyle, and that's what really keeps him interesting for me and unpredictable for everyone else. Claw IS classy, and rightfully so for his persona!

I don't mind the wall glitch, it's often humorous and sometimes can even benefit you when it messes up your opponent's counter attack. In older Street Fighters, you could mess up his walldive by quickly moving forward/backward anyway. Claw could use a small tweak of improvement, sure, but not much is necessary. Something like increasing stun from 900 to 1000. Invulnerably frames on ST maybe if you really wanted to move him up a little.

Everyone loves an underdog, especially one entertaining to watch with all the dodges, flying, weapon/mask attachments, and various playstyles.

As far as sportsmanship goes, I'd say as long as players don't take things too seriously outside of the game, the tactics and dizzy/taunt shenanigans inside the game shouldn't matter. If someone beats me with the same moves over and over, I think it falls on me to learn how to deal with it as a challenge and overcome it. With the example of that Honda player getting fireballed to death round after round by Sagat, well I guess some people are just like that. They HAVE to win no matter who they are playing and can't derive enjoyment from playing the game for fun. Still, you could look at it from the perspective that the Honda got many rounds of good serious practice against a fireball spam strategy.

Posted by cowboy_soultaker on October 6, 2009 at 4:23 p.m. #404

youku isn't blocked for me.

Posted by yes4me on October 6, 2009 at 7:06 p.m. #405

Vega character 25th learned. Took 175 times to get 1000cp.

Ok he is not bad ONLY if I am on top of my game. His biggest problem is dealing with jumpers by far. I didn't have a problem doing damage.
Contrary to what some people may say, losing the claw or the mask give you about the same minus. In both case, you lose around 31% effectiveness (=SUM of percentage of damage received & given). If you lose both, Vega is 33% less effective. Therefore, I rather lose the mask than the claw.

Posted by Assassin on October 7, 2009 at 7:07 a.m. #406

@Meteo:
Vega is such an underdog that you almost have to re-master him for every players play style.

For example, i can usually hold my own against really good Akumas. but there was a guy today who I just couldnt beat for the longest time, other Akumas would come in and kick the crap out of him, and I could beat those Akumas, but I couldnt beat this guy, simply because of his unique play style.

There are just too many way too powerful characters with awesome combos in SF4 for Vega to overcome by his own merit. meaning you really have to adapt to everybody's play styles and do things you wouldn't normally ever even think of doing. Whereas most other characters can simply do the same crap to everyone and win.

Tiers should definitely NOT be in SSF4, its total bullcrap in the arcade. that Akiuma playes like 50 wins a row today. and every top player at this arcade couldnt beat him, meaning many characters simply aren't in the right "tier" to even compete, which is utter bullcrap.

players can say "oh I deserve it, I should have done this or that" but whatever, that is a self-esteem problem in my book, feeling you deserve to get punished. its masochism. Playing vega half the time you feel like a Masochist. keep coming back for punishment, and seeming to play just for punishment.

But i stand by what I said earlier, if combos were equalled out throughout the game, it would be all good, but so many of those combos simply end game play for an undetermined amount of time and they simply don't end, and there is nothing you can do, you might as well not even be there.

maybe some people like playing that way, but the clinical term for that is Masochism.

in fact, there are a lot of people who have simply stopped playing in the arcade all together. i used to see so many people playing, now its just like Ryu, Akuma, Chunli who dominate the game by playing in a total "cheese 'em up" fashion with no breaks.

and that is probably what the Sadoists who created the game for their own personal favorites think of as a good time, but the game simply isnt equal in any way at all. there is no strategy, no skill, no outguess your opponent, beat him to a strike, choose a better strike, etc, there is only like 3 characters and their infinite combos and that is al they do, walk up, jab to combo or jab to throw, and really about nothing else. it takes about one brain cell to play like that after you have memorized the very finite number of pattern-combos

and SSF4 needs to fix that, nobody is playing anymore, because real players simply dont find playing with ryu all day long enjoyable, Ryu has always been the least popular character in the game, wtf is up with capcom?

people dont even find their game enjoyable anymore except for sado-masochists

its ridiculous

Posted by Assassin on October 7, 2009 at 7:28 a.m. #407

@yes4me:

the straight up jump is a good move for jumpers, with HP if they are high or HK if not

and what i had to do on Akuma today was that and jumping forward with HP in the air.

and I had to do alot of leaping backwards and striking with HP just as I left the ground to beat out Akumas Double HK roundhouse which he spammed all day

the only time i caught him with Scarlet terror was immediately after Half-backflips, which really isnt so easy to throw you directly out of (not as easily as the full back flip anyway), though they try and usually end up at a very convenient distance for the ST

other than that, the only was I was able to beat his aproach by air was the jumpback HP

when someone is jumping in on you, you can begin your focus attack which will hit if they try to HK you, but if they pull their strike they will just land and throw you.

you CANNOT do an EX Flying Barcelona attack or an EX Bloody Claw when someone is jumping in on you. you must use the manual wall escape or jump straight up with HP or HK

his anti-airs suck, as he is an anti-air character, all you can do is beat them to the air with a perfectly timed airthrow (which works nicely right off the ground), or with strikes.

I would like to see vega have a "Devil May Cry" jump, where he can jump up, then dart forward with a strike out of thin air,

Posted by Assassin on October 7, 2009 at 7:32 a.m. #408

and because his super is so extremely hard to land, i think the neutral joystick super whould have a bigger hit range and hit 6 or 7 times (his 3 teensy hits are by far the weakest super in the game), as a viable option to his "hey look at me, here I come" super

Posted by Assassin on October 7, 2009 at 10:36 a.m. #409

I also think Vega should have a spinning claw uppercut, kind of like Seth's but a little more narrow

Posted by Kage on October 7, 2009 at 12:18 p.m. #410

i think when vega drops his claw opponents should take damage from stepping on it.

Posted by cowboy_soultaker on October 7, 2009 at 3:50 p.m. #411

akuma cheese? that seems rare to me. Usually it's ryu priority spam or flow chart ken. I've always had a soft spot for akuma so gloves are off!! lol i'm just kidding, I type with gloves on like strong bad.

If you said rufus's impossibly easy links to ultra/special, ryu's high damage combos that can tie-in ultras/specials or balrogs near infinite and crazy links I'd be right with you, but akuma? I'm not saying you lack the talent, because you've contributed so much here, but akuma has a lot of things going against him. I played him in third strike and lack of ex and low health always proved my achiles heel. He's got hit confirmation like the other shotos do, cr. lp(x2) if hit, then cr. lk light tatsumaki h. shoryuken. if no hit, throw. there are variants of this for quite a few characters. and you are right, vega's lack of combos means less chances for pressure.

on a side note, i thought it was funny in the svenson interview he mains sagat, ken and viper. albeit ken and viper are red tier, but sagat? I have a hard time respecting sagat players. if they crossed me up or did a combo, you know, showed they took time to learn their char, I wouldn't have such a hard time.

Posted by Kage on October 7, 2009 at 7:54 p.m. #412

Hey any of you guys find a use of neutral jump MP? It looks like a teeny version of the neutral jump HP (that I'm also trying to figure out when to use) but not sure when to use it.

Posted by Assassin on October 7, 2009 at 8:56 p.m. #413

@Cowboy: I am right with you there, the only erason i played 3rd strike was for Akuma, I started SF4 with him, and I feel almost like was created just for me (and sometimes I actually feel I am Akuma). the best part about playing him (Besides his slippers and beads and sign for "Heaven" on his back, and his hair) are his eyes, when yuou start playing Akuma you get lost in his eyes, and prety soon you fel your eyes are firey red and you start making that Akuma face while vanquishing your opponent.

i was referring to "Cheese" in the 1980's -90's sense. this guyed played simply too relentlessly, and cheese in my book includes doing the same move over and over, especially when you have sat at the arcade through 50 different players

I was actually kind of excited to see him beat everyone, but my excitement fade when I realized that I would never play like that. Akuma is such an awesome character that there's really no excuse to play in the 'cheapest' way possible, i hate guys who take every oppportunity afforded them, and then do that the entire round, and i mean really 'cheesy' moves like kicking as soon as you leave the ground and flying through the air with your leg out like some doofus, or throwing non-stop with only the goal in mind to throw non-stop, or some other 'cheesy' crap, or doing the HK roundhouse all day long (i couldnt believe how many times he landed that on me, thats one of the hardest moves to beat out that I've encountered)

but then i typically prefer countering to blockng because I HATE turtling.

and so cheese also has to include those players who not only take every advantage afforded them when the other player is in defense, and then do nothing but turtle and camp for indefinite amounts of time, because they can only do their moves when someone else is doing something first, so they sit and do nothing or turtle for 1/3 of the entire round, camping, or sit and wait for the clock to run out.

in my book, when someone is playing ultra defensive and turtled up and all you do is barrage them with endless strikes, knowing that most normal people simply get bored playing that way and will eventually give you an opening, or unti you get a throw, its time to take you out back. because its cheesy, and that is all this guy did.
A normal move would be to back away and begin fighting again.

there shouldnt even be corners in SF4, it should be anfinite looping back ground.

thats all cheese in my book, regardless of the character, its "player cheese" rather than character-based cheese.

playing 'cheesy' in my book is barraging a player who has been trapped in a crner with limitless strikes which once one hits leads to an indefinite combo and begins all over, AND THEN also being the king of turtles and campers yourself

the player strikes (if blocked) should push the opponent further away from you, like they used to.

Posted by Assassin on October 7, 2009 at 9:12 p.m. #414

@Kage: that stright up jump HP is useful when u dont think you can get the straight up jump throw. it can be pretty easily beaten if someone expects it, but if they jump in expecting to beat your strike, you can usually land a throw.

and its pretty good when someone is right on top of you, trying to cross you up. try hitting the button the same moment you jump up, which would normally just be a knockdown on most other characters, but Vega can usually pull it off, they arent easy to land, like the stright up jump HK, but they do their job if you manage to time them right.

most of vegas game is off the ground strikes, throws, and air counters

I am thinking now that maybe the MP version might also be useful (possibly more useful) in those last-minute cross up situations when you strike as you leave the ground? i'd be interested to know how that does against corss up kicks

Posted by Assassin on October 7, 2009 at 9:38 p.m. #415

@Kage:

I think the Claw should be a projectile, thrown more than a full screens distance which does more dameage than a regular HP strike, and good chip damage too. what a killer way to end a round.

not taken off and thrown, but maybe a sort of back turn like cosmic heel, then flung off of the arm while looking over the shoulder.

that 'detachability' would also give explanation to why it often gets knocked off during play

Posted by Assassin on October 7, 2009 at 9:39 p.m. #416

and the claw can either be thrown up like Goukens fireball, or down from the air like Akumas or straight ahead.

Posted by Assassin on October 7, 2009 at 9:40 p.m. #417

and is a knockdown hit

Posted by Assassin on October 7, 2009 at 9:52 p.m. #418

StreetFighters problem is its "linear" play

no fighter in the world fights on a straight line, they move circular, hence they never get caught in a corner, and getting caught with your back up against a wall is a near imposssibility

thus, corners should be removed from SSF4, to give the feeling of circular motion by having a looping background.

Posted by Assassin on October 7, 2009 at 9:57 p.m. #419

even better would to have all games in large spaces and characters can side step and side stepping adjust camera angle

Posted by Kage on October 7, 2009 at 10:31 p.m. #420

@Assassin

Thanks for the insight! I'll try the punch on the way up.

For the rest of you - another great Vega vid!:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VdURS...

Posted by Th3 JoK3R J on October 8, 2009 at 12:22 a.m. #421

Also here's another great Vega vid.
I don't know he he did it but good editing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlP_UK...

Posted by Meteo on October 8, 2009 at 1:38 a.m. #422

Whatever SF's problems are, 2D play is *not* really one of them. Sidestepping would do nothing other than avoid an attack and shift the environment to a new linear camera angle. Its like just adding a mechanic to make you invulnerable from certain moves for a split second, nothing noteworthy. I would much rather have the focus system than that.

Some fighting games that have a much more free 3d environment to walk or fly around in tend to have characters that exactly face eachother the whole time anyway as well. If you try to change the arenas in Street Fighter gameplay-wise AND make it truly unique and interesting, it would extremely redefine the game, likely moving it away from the in-your-face technical fighting aspects it's known for. I imagine it would end up requiring you to aim attacks and stuff. Who knows, it could work, but you're talking about a different game.

Am I just sliding down a slippery slope away from the points you are trying to make, Assassin?

Anyway, Kage, that Vega video is hilarious!

Posted by Assassin on October 8, 2009 at 8 a.m. #423

@Meteo:
well, as I try and imagine the future of street fighter, and that I have also heard Capcom was thinking of pulling the plug altogether, maybe redefining it is what's needed.

i wasnt thinking anything quite so radical, it seems to me Street Figher EX was something like that, 3D syle, i cant really remember, but i suppose its only a matter of time and technological advancements until we are playng 3D Virtual Reality Street Fighter in our living rooms kicking over the furniture.

but i was just thinking of much MORE real it would be without the back wall. whats the worst that could happen? Forward dash is alot faster than backwards dash so you couldnt just dash forever, the guy will eventually catch you, but this way the game could continue to be interesting, as alot of those really cheap combos only work against the wall anyway, and it really benefits nobody to have a wall, some player and fighters in the real world are distance fighters who will go from here to hell and back trying to keep the right distance from an opponent, even if it means running away and turning back. its just cool. i think it would improve the game a great deal to have no walls, that alone would make the game alot more fair for all characters

Posted by @418-19 on October 8, 2009 at 9:13 a.m. #424

"even better would to have all games in large spaces and characters can side step and side stepping adjust camera angle"

Just pretend theyre in a long and narrow glass box

Posted by cowboy_soultaker on October 8, 2009 at 9:38 a.m. #425

I think they tried the infinite round-table thing in the ex series. that didn't do so hot on the ps/ps2. quite honestly, I wouldn't like to see SF go in that direction. If I wanted that, I'd play Tekken or Soul Calibur or something. I stopped playing them because SF4 (and to a lesser extent, blazblue) are the ideal fighting games for me.

every game is unique from the rules that define it. perhaps the current rules let us down (such as wall jump glitch). the SF4 engine is pretty solid imo, they just gotta iron it out a bit.

@Assassin
I try not to turtle as Akuma, i'm trying to learn his bread and butter but I get nervous and use the punch too fast, and the lp won't cancel if your lp's are too close together. Cheese tactics aren't fun, ever. I lose to flow-chart cammy's and guiles, it pains me to say, but even if I won i would still feel cheated. No victory, or loss, feels better then when 2 fighters do their best. you may be right, that BP's and GP's help draw that out.

Posted by Jink on October 8, 2009 at 11:44 p.m. #426

@Assassin
Buddy, get a grip. If you are truly into all you say, then play another fighting games to compensate your needs, or study and develop your own fighting game. I'm not mocking you, I'm serious. Put all your thoughts together, and come up with a fighting game. If you make it and turns out to be good, you'll be happy playing, and with $.

Vega (Claw) doesn't need anything that would make him like other characters, and stop being Vega, to be better. Playing Vega is challenging and fun. Just look at Tatsu, he got to TOP-4 on that tournament, with a "2nd worst character." Just imagine how good that feels.

Claw toss like Goken's fireball? No good. SRK drill like Seth's? Mmm nope. If you want that, learn and play with those characters. Not mocking you, just my opinion.

Btw, I haven't watched all the videos you posted, their streaming is slow. But at least I can watch them.

@Kage and Th3 JoK3J
Funny and awesome vids!
"Ya think it's narcissism? Hell, it's just truism."

DA TRUTH!! ;)

SSF4 news:
I heard that there's gonna be multiple Ultras for selection, just like SAs in 3rdStrike. That's good!

Posted by Meteo on October 9, 2009 at 2:23 a.m. #427

New upgraded ultra for Vega: Handgun

*BANG* Perfect.

I really don't understand what deal with calling it "masochism" is when someone gets defeated and can see that they made bad decisions, mistakes beyond simply messing up attacks or getting overpowered by the opponent. Also, I wouldn't say combos make it like you're not even there. So what, it takes a FEW SECONDS to watch your attacks or someone else's string together, I just don't understand what the problem is.

Posted by Assassin on October 9, 2009 at 6:53 a.m. #428

@Jink:

its "fun" to never get first place in a tournament

and its "fun" to lose, guaranteed to lose, and not be #1

thus, "Masochism"

thats the definition of masochism.

the world's top Vega player is not capable of beating an average good sagat player consistently.

and YES, Vega is hanging on the end of the broke stick.

when sagat, probably the strongest play in the game, can simply HK you directly into an unblockable Ultra, and vega, considered by scrubs and pros alike to be hte worst character in the game has to land a Focus Attack to get his really just a soso ultra to land unblockable, there is definitely something seriously wrong.

i can see Akumas Mega Ultra needing to be landed by only a Focus Attack, that thing takes off more than half your life.
and he is considered by many to be the top character in the game.

Vega gets 4th place. that is vegas most elite accomplishemnt, and will never get better.

to enjoy that is masochism.

the game play is simply broke.

when the biggest strongest crapheads in the game can ALSO combo the crap out of you with their eyes closed, simply on accident, and the weakest underdogs get their legs chopped off at the knees, something is seriously wrong

AND NO, i am not going to "accept" it. it is a failed and flawed system. SF4's best things are Combos, FADC's, Juggles, and limitless punishment by linking 4 EX moves together with an ultra

Why then, pray tell, did half of the characters not even get to play the game? Let me tell you why, because those characters can only enjoy themselves if nobody else can do those things.

there is no skill, i repeat None, Zip, Zero, Zilch, in pulling off a Ryu or Sagat Super or Ultra combo that is GUARANTEED to hit.

Vega is Broken. Eventhough I guarantee I can kick the crap out of you with Vega and most other players I meet. Top level competitors simply cannot take Vega as a Worthy Opponent in the title of Victory

Posted by Assassin on October 9, 2009 at 7:02 a.m. #429

what does vega have thats even guaranteed to hit?

nothing really

what does vega have that is almost guaranteed to be blocked, stuffed, snuffed, pwned, beaten-out, or destroyed?

everything, really

Posted by Assassin on October 9, 2009 at 7:05 a.m. #430

Even Sagats cheesy lame little LP jumping gayball chicken wing beats out Scarlet Terror everytime no matter the distance or timing

Posted by @Jink on October 9, 2009 at 8:23 a.m. #431

and seth's uppercut he stole from Wolverine, it looks exactly like wolverines, and vegas claw uppercut would too.

he needs a strong wake up, he is the lowest character in the game, and needs something against sagats, balrogs, and Ryus, or make his Scaret Terror more like Guiles

and throwing the claw would be just as normal. he is the only character in the game with a normal weapon, and also the only character with something detachable, and the only character who has to go pick things up

so whats the difference if it was thrown and did damage as opponed to floating towards center stage? you would still lose the claw, become weaker, and have to worry about going to retrieve it, you only get one, not infinite amounts like fireball spammers, so it would make sense that because throwing weakens your game and you have one thing to throw, that you should be able to throw it down from the air or up from the ground or straight, 3 angles for you one and only projectile you will have to fightyour over to retrieve, bare-fisted.

thats WAY more than fair

Posted by Jink on October 9, 2009 at 2:03 p.m. #432

@Assassin
Don't misunderstand me. I play to win, and I do with my character of choice (Vega), no matter the disadvantages. I'll learn from Vega's weakness against certain characters by losing a lot, but then, I get on top of the game. Everything has a counter, some are safer than others, and some are too risky, but there are still choices. Knowledge, mix-ups, gambles, reactions, all goes in battle around luck.

Like I said earlier: Vega = playing SF4 on hard mode, for hardcores only.

This is what Vega needs to be better:
1. Unbeatable Punch priority with Claw on, against any trade attack situation, even against SC and some Ultras.

2. Unbeatable FBA with Claw on, against any trade for normal attacks.

3. Unbeatable SHC with Claw on, against all moves.

4. Claw Toss to hit opponent like Dudley's rose on 3rdStrike, but with the option of tossing the claw backward with LP, short-towards with MP, and a little farther-towards with HP.

5. Mask pick-up should have a Tap-Down command, for those who want to keep the damage boost without accidentally walking over the mask.

6. EX-ST should have invincible frames and faster start-up, like a SRK does.

6. EX-RCF must definitely start-up a lot faster, and recover faster.

7. FBA should jump from the wall a lot faster, like old Vega, without that brief pause when landing in the wall.

8. BloodyHighClaw, to have a direction launch option, where Vega launches towards neutrally, upward if tap UP, downward if tap DOWN.

9. PieceOfMercury must be an overhead, and should be able to jump over Sagat's K-TS. Like FeiLong's "6MK" overhead.

10. FBA towards jumping opponents, should go through them and wall-land, instead of getting stock on opponent.

11. SHC should have more damage.

GTG, More later...

Posted by meshach on October 9, 2009 at 2:47 p.m. #433

you suck pussey bitch

Posted by cowboy_soultaker on October 9, 2009 at 4:16 p.m. #434

I don't know if I would be playing Vega now if he was top tier. I'm sure there would be cheese enough to make me hate him. Now that I play him I wouldn't mind a few improvements, but I'd be risking losing the "unique" factor to vega. Can't really have your cake and eat it too, in this case.

being in the top 4 with vega means a lot more than being a top 4 ryu or top 4 sagat. I'd say it falls in the category of "bragging rights" or "morale victory". Would it be better to go all the way? definitely. How often though does a dan, or a gen, or a dhalsim (up till recently) or a honda etc. get a top 4 spot?

SSF4 seems to be a bit of an arms race. Each camp is wanting a little something (i've heard Ryu fans clamoring for his knife kick from SF3). But for the most part the prevailing theme seems to be "balance". Thats a bit abstract, and while it seems ideal it could entail things one wouldn't want. While this is a worst case scenario, from my understanding They completely changed Iori's fighting style in the most recent KoF. That broke my heart a bit.

If they make selectable "SA's" like in 3, we'd probably get the ST special. That would def be combo'd into (probably).

Posted by Kage on October 9, 2009 at 5:49 p.m. #435

While all this Vega bashing is well deserved, I for one want to focus on what makes Vega GREAT. Here's my top 5 list.

(1) Full screen ultra punish!
(2) UNBLOCKABLE super.
(3) PPP or KKK moves that make Vega completely invulnerable to attack.
(4) TWO EX moves that run right through fireball happy scrubs.
(5) Easy to combo into EX combo with normal hit confirms.

I know I know - there's downsides too - but for some reason I really enjoy playing Vega unlike any other character on the roster.

Peace!

Posted by Assassin on October 9, 2009 at 9:28 p.m. #436

Well, in the Vega camp, we do need something, and we're probably the Camp that complains the least and needs the most.

while we are throwing around Ideas, I had a dream last night where Vega did something like feilong's cross up where he rolls over your back, except this wasnt so much of a throw but more of a hop to a grab to a swing around to the other side of the opponene, to a release on the other side. And the move could be comboed on both sides, into the grab and after the release in a ST or something

it was something like that

and I joines this websites forum now, you guys should try it, we can open a Vega Thread. anyway, over there I suggested that Vegas Super land on the wall as normal, and then a second, semi-transparet Vega continues through the cloned image on the wall at regular FBA speed or slightly faster, then begins the slamming process, then the Wall image dives over at current Super speed and timing, and they join back to full Vega for the final slam.

that would also show us the "shadowy" side of Vega and his Dual Personality, what do u think about that?

Posted by Assassin on October 9, 2009 at 9:47 p.m. #437

@Kage:

I agree wholly, no character brings me half as much joy to play besides Vega, Elfuerte is the next in line

I found myself switching to several different chracters because my opponent wasnt so great, Honda, Blanka, Chun Li, Abel.. and then I went back to Vega and I was just excited and happy, eventhough I play him everyday

Vegas IS the Greatest. regardless of how he matches up with the meatheads.

And I stand by what I said about if SF4 was arcade only, arcade ettiquette and play style, Vega would be Consistently at #1

I really love his Ultra too, I have used it in situations even where I am stuck in the corner and being bombarded by a barrage of attakcs from a meathead, it lands on the wall right as the to some low MK or HK, flashes right in front of ther eyes there on the wall, then shreds the crap out of them

I also love the ultra through Fireballs, its got to be one of the most satisfying Ultras to land, right there with Akumas and Elfuerte's

but I wish it was more useful against jumping in opponents, who it generally misses, if it were only given a body-wide hit box it would be way more useful

Posted by Meteo on October 10, 2009 at 3:12 a.m. #438

Haha, yeah a Blanka was being over-aggressive towards me today. We both had very low life, and I was cornered. He came at me with a ball but then his ass got Bloody High Clawed with an inch to spare for the win! I love when you're right in their face at the wall like that. Point Blank, haha.

Here's a question: If Vega could combo a super/ultra from a FADC'd Scarlet Terror, how far up the tier would he move? :)

Posted by @438 on October 10, 2009 at 10:15 a.m. #439

That would be ultra only cause you cant do a super if you fadc. And not much cause there's a lot more holding him back. Any good pressure game and you're taking a whole lot of damage. No consistent way to wake up reversal out of many situations. Poor stam/dam. etc, etc, etc...

Posted by Jink on October 10, 2009 at 12:55 p.m. #440

@Kage #435
That's the right attitude! ;)

Posted by cowboy_soultaker on October 10, 2009 at 1:14 p.m. #441

I think he can already fadc into his super, but it's the claw version of the super so it doesn't crap for damage.

Balrog (boxer) can link into his ultra sure, but it juggles and due to damage scaling it does crap for damage. If the combo leading into super/ultra (super being the izuna version) wasn't too big, the damage should still be decent. But I think the scarlet terror special will solve all that. of course, if they make specials/ultras selectable you'd give up that sweet invulnerable wall jump.

I'll join the forum, sure.

Posted by @435 on October 10, 2009 at 3:24 p.m. #442

(1) Full screen ultra punish!
(2) UNBLOCKABLE super.
(3) PPP or KKK moves that make Vega completely invulnerable to attack.
(4) TWO EX moves that run right through fireball happy scrubs.
(5) Easy to combo into EX combo with normal hit confirms.

(1) Useless and unreliable unless opponents jump or spam fb or do not know how to block
(2)UNBLOCKABLE NOT = to unstoppable
(3)Can be hit out of it on the very vulnerable end parts
(4)One only is really usefull
(5)Check

Posted by @441 on October 10, 2009 at 3:27 p.m. #443

"if they make specials/ultras selectable you'd give up that sweet invulnerable wall jump"
Hoping to God that it won't be selectable ones.

Posted by cowboy_soultaker on October 10, 2009 at 4:53 p.m. #444

@443
I am hoping not too. Is it really a big deal if you get the specials ultras like in alpha? Gen already does that.

@442
punish means vs. cheese and spam tactics. he isn't saying the full screen ultra has great utility otherwise. besides he's just trying to brighten up all the doom and gloom talk ;-)

Posted by Assassin on October 10, 2009 at 8:24 p.m. #445

"If Vega could combo a super/ultra from a FADC'd Scarlet Terror, how far up the tier would he move? :)"

in my opinion he'd be top tier, the only thing that makes Sagat, Ryu, etc, top tier is their ability to combo into their ultras and supers from single hits, as well as FADC's

if vega's Ultra hit off the ground like FBA knocking th opponent into the air then slicing them to pieces then it could be done straight off of MP or MK just like all the top tier characters, and then it could also be thrown into other combos. that would make him a "top tier" competitor

but Vega also needs to be able to FADC his Scarlet Terror, and even that alone would set him up on near top

Posted by Assassin on October 10, 2009 at 8:27 p.m. #446

@ cowboy soultaker:
what do you mean "selectable"? like a little icon appears for you to choose from? i think that would be lame

i imagined "selectable" simply meant adding another one, or some small movement like Vegas Super can "switch"

then how would that affect the wall dive?

Posted by Dave on October 10, 2009 at 10:24 p.m. #447

Claw's ultra is flawed for many reasons...

1. Minimal chip damage (normal sky high claw does more)

2. Does not track the enemy's position

3. For as hard as it is to successfully land in high-level play, it does less damages than easier to pull off ultras, such as ryu's or sagat's.

4. Easily punishable if blocked. Sure all ultra's are punishable on block, but think of the chip damage. Boxer's ultra's chip damage is insane.

5. No easy-link into ultra.

6. Even IF you could FADC out of a scarlett terror, there isnt enough time to charge the ultra. This could be fixed by giving Claw a new ultra that doesnt require charging or bouncing off the wall.

The comment made by Ono is reassuring of this fact -- that ultra commands will not overlap. Hopefully this means that Claw's new ultra might be a QCFx2+PPP command...some kind of claw combo even.

7. Ultra does not start until you've reached the wall. This means no possible wake-up possibilities since you can be hit on your way to the wall. The start-up need to happen on command (Screen goes dark as Claw begins jumping off the ground)

Ryu spends 3 seconds charging his metsu hadouken while all the action stops, why cant Claw spend 1 second getting to the wall?

Sure his Ultra has good properties...

1. Excellent starting frames, his ultra lands almost immediatly after it activates.

2. Good as anti-fireball spam

3. Good for wake-up finishing chip damage. It comes out so fast that poeple dont block or counter in time, and you cant just jump over it since its so fast.

But as you can see, the negatives heavily out-weigh the positives...

Posted by JDH on October 11, 2009 at 2:23 a.m. #448

Hell, I'm a vega main (but a noob) and I would be happy with just a reliable high priority wake-up. All those Ryu and Ken scrubs online that aren't very good can just spam SRKs and you're left having to respect them upon knocking them down.

Vega, on the other hand, when knocked downed, is not in the least bit respectable. Any smart player crowds him on wake up.

Posted by cowboy_soultaker on October 11, 2009 at 4:52 a.m. #449

@Assassin
Selectable ala Street Fighter 3. It was "hinted at" in one of the articles posted on the event hubs articles. http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2009/oc...
what I meant was, lets say you select an ultra with more utility, like the ST ultra, if it's like SF3, that would mean you no longer have the wall jump ultra. That is all I meant. I am hoping that it isn't this way, I am hoping they are all available to you ala alpha 3. time will tell.

@JDH
you are right, if someone is playing a shoto as pressure and they've really hooked into you it's tough to break it. you can try KKK to flip their wake up move and try a kara throw, if they're crossing you up you can try a neutral jump HK or a light Scarlet Terror. Actually, as I've noticed, there are a lot of neutral versions of the hk/mk hp/mp. I may try going into training mode, recording jump ins and playing them back to find out what beats what. if I do I will be sure to post back here.

Posted by JDH on October 11, 2009 at 10:22 a.m. #450

Actually, I would like to add one two more buffs to Vega.

1. (As I posted above) A high priority wake-up.

2. EX-FBA should have armor.

3. Remove the stupid-*ss claw throw and mask throw. Why waste vega's specials on moves that just cause you to be weaker? Seriously.

With these simple buffs, Vega would move to a decent spot on the tier listings, and more importantly, zero skill high-tier-using scrubs would actually have to *think* and learn true *skills* in order to win. I don't think armor on FBA would be broken in the least bit. Just look at all of Balrog's armor and Zangief's. Also, I think Seth has armor on his EX's, but it may just be that they have broken priority.

@cowboy soultaker:
Thanks for that advice, KKKing the wakeup and kara throwing sounds promising, I'll have to practice it, because right now I cannot do Vega's Kara-throw consistently.

Also, I should incorporate more neutral jump wakeups. I haven't been trying this one much.

Posted by Meteo on October 11, 2009 at 11:09 a.m. #451

He's just not intentionally designed to be strong I guess. He feels like a character that is a more effective choice between equally-experienced players of lower skill.

In that case, his weaknesses kind of balance his tricky attacks, but the tricky attacks don't easily work anyway at higher levels of play.

Posted by Kage on October 11, 2009 at 8:39 p.m. #452

Just saw one of the better Vega players get demolished by a Gen player on Barfights II ! Can't wait to see the higher-quality uploads.

Posted by cowboy_soultaker on October 11, 2009 at 9:01 p.m. #453

nice, I will have to keep an eye out for that one.

Posted by Assassin on October 11, 2009 at 9:54 p.m. #454

I'd be very interested in what you find out about Neutral strikes or any information on any strikes beating out any moves of any other characters at all

and I hope you post it in the Forum as well

I for one like the ultra. my only complaint is its hit box

and I might enjoy it more if the angle was controllable, even if its angling yourself up and down on the way to the wall instead of coming down

i kind of like that it looks like a normal FBA on the way to the wall, so if you get knocked out of it, it doesnt give up your strategy.

taking off the mask should close to double the power of your hits

the claw should be thrown at the expense of 1 or 2 EX blocks

EX scarlet terror should perform deep, low, powerful and invincible as most other wake ups, then you could leave the regular ST as is.

Posted by @452 on October 12, 2009 at 12:15 a.m. #455

Tatsu was playing Yeb and a Justin Wong. He's a pretty good vega. Actually one of the best SF4 Vegas I've ever seen. But when you see those match ups, you'll see exactly why hes ranked/rated where he is (LOW). Lol side note: Sanford plays a mean Dan which. Definitely Sanford's Dan > Tatsu's Vega. Maybe sometime soon we can get a tier list with Vega below Dan. LOL

Posted by Assassin on October 12, 2009 at 3:37 a.m. #456

@452:
I replied to your comments about tiers here: http://forums.eventhubs.com/viewtopic...

Posted by Dave on October 12, 2009 at 4:43 a.m. #457

Giving invincable start up frame to his ST alone would make him mid-tier

His ultra takes to long to start and the motion is awkward. I cant count the times that i did an ex-walldive by mistake.

Even worse, lose your claw and the ultra does pitiful damage, even with the mask off.

Lastly, i agree with JDH...

The mindset of a person fighting against Claw is simple and easy.

"ok, i just need to get him in a corner or knock him down first...then jump in on wake up since he has no reversal...maybe throw some punches in here....land a grab..spam more punches on wake up....just keep throwing random punches that have more priority than any of his EX-attacks....ok half his health is gone....oooo i knocked off his mask and claw...special attack....tripped him, time to cross him over and start again...spam punches, yay i win!"

requires no thinking and a simple mix-up game of tick throws and special attacks that are safe on block (rufus' moveset comes to mind)

This is the strategy that EVERYONE i play against uses on me....and its all they have.

If Claw's ST gets invincable frames in ssf4 (which he better damn get) then they wont have sh*t on me. Their only answer will be gone, and they will have to actually think, to win

Posted by Googie_1 on October 12, 2009 at 7:43 a.m. #458

PPP on the wake is very good for avoiding jump-ins and the KKK are help to mix it up.

One trick I do, is to use the Sliding kick to slide underneath people who either throw "Sagat's" fire ball, or hurican kicks or slimply when you know a person is going to jump in..

There ways of avoiding the Jump in's, very tuff though, its more about avoiding the jump in all together and attack when you have the space.

I really cant believe that the ST wasnt invinceble from the beginning.

Posted by Assassin on October 12, 2009 at 8:09 a.m. #459

Crouch + HP pwns hurricane kicks from any angle

Posted by @457 on October 12, 2009 at 8:31 a.m. #460

Invin frams on EXST may help a little but a well placed wakeup cross will probably still stuff it out clean if the move isnt auto corrected.

Posted by @456 on October 12, 2009 at 8:50 a.m. #461

I was @452 (post 455)
Look, I know youre a fan of Vega. Hell, I like him too. Vegarine is awesome. But for me what I see is what I get. And I've seen tournament players play dan much more effectively than I've seen them play Vega. Even though their usage is probably very limited.

Posted by cowboy_soultaker on October 12, 2009 at 1:49 p.m. #462

sorry assassin, I totally forgot about the tests.

I did them quick, if someone wants to double check my answers they're free too.

(notations: I use correct format in test #1, and switch to N. MP, HK, etc for the rest. N. implies neutral jump)

vs. Ryu

Test#1 = Ryu's priority punch (jump in mp)

This is unlikely to be used on crossup, but it is used often when not doing aerial tatsumaki.
All neutral jumps trade when it's "well timed", meaning simultaneous. neutral jump MK or HK is best to combat it. N. MK only if you're jump is higher. N. HK is best for the rest of the time.

Test#2 = Jump in and cross up HK (not on wake-up)

N. HK and N. MK are not effective. N. MP when below ryu's jump, n HP is the best bet though. Simultaneous, as always, trades at best.

Test #3 = cross up mk on wake-up (for more j.mk ideas see ken's section)

This test was recorded with a sweep that I would not block, then a cross up mk. cross up mk's were not as consistant as I'd like, but i ran this for about 5-10 minutes.

All Neutrals will be punished. late or early mk's may be avoided all together, or even trade. cr. mp has a high chance of avoiding the cross-up on wakeup.

Ken

jump-in HK

When timed right, ken will at worst trade (for equal dmg with mask on). It takes great timing by ken to get the priority in the trade or hit. all neutrals (hk, mp, mk, hp) will out prioritize early hk. Late is harder to hit with.

Jump-in mk on wake-up

As with ryu, mk will out prioritize any neutral you do. This is because it will crossup even a jump, since the n. jump actually makes the cross-up more likely to happen. as with ryu, though, vega's mp (and hp) can avoid taking the hit. What you do after avoidance is up to you, you can try kara-throwing, since that is the most likely action ryu/ken will do after whiffing. I suggest mp, however, if an ill-timed xup mk is used, you might turn and hit with c. hp. it's a tough call.

Jump-in MK (not cross-up)

N. HK is king against a jump in mk. N. MP and MK are mainly for jumping early or lat compared to opponent. N. HP didn't seem to do so well.

Jump-in MK (pressuring fleeeing opponent)

If you are like me, at some point you've been caught in a j. flee trap. If this is the case, your best friend is fleeing j. hp. It's teh same as jump in, and the claw doesn't seem to have a hit box in this animation, so it is your safest way to punish a pursuant ken mk. this is possibly the same with ryu's mk.

Those were all the tests I did. I can try other opponents if you want. I'd welcome anyone to do this with the record function [in training mode] (like I did) or a friend to double check my work.

Posted by cowboy_soultaker on October 12, 2009 at 1:55 p.m. #463

@457

you are right. "clutch" (as i don't believe there is such a thing with SRK shortcuts) SRK's will auto-correct, but it's amazing how many of vega's moves won't. ST won't, all neutral jumps won't, cr. mp doesn't. cr. hp was the only thing that changed direction part of the time. even that was iffy.

Posted by Kage on October 12, 2009 at 2:27 p.m. #464

@cowboy

Wow - thanks for putting all that down. Have to try the cr. mp vs Gen's/Vipers wake-up cross overs.

Also - been trying to refine Vega's cross-over attack (not the wall-dive). Unfortunately it's very positional. Haven't seen it on the forums so I thought I'd share it here.

The setup: Your back is against the corner. Opponent is far enough away that if you do a quick wall jump, your jumping in HP claw will just hit the back of your opponent. When you land, you're on the other side of your opponent!

So far i've managed this on Ryu and Sagat during online play making me hope this works on most sized characters. Again it's very positional but really nice when it works. Makes your opponent confused whether or not Vega has any normal cross over attacks and get them blocking the wrong way...

Posted by cowboy_soultaker on October 12, 2009 at 2:36 p.m. #465

@ kage

you're welcome. I should note that the reason the cr. mp avoids is cuz it goes the opposite way of the cross.

if that doesn't work against the viper/gen cross I can do them next. With gen though you may be better off just blocking. High, then low for the inevitable cr.lk

Posted by Kage on October 12, 2009 at 2:38 p.m. #466

To clarify,

I'm not even sure this is a true cross-over in the sense that your opponent has to reverse the direction of block to block the cross-over. But you DO land on the other side of your opponent which (at least so far) has led to my favorite combo (of the month): Cl. st. HP (hits twice) then st. HK (hits twice).

Posted by cowboy_soultaker on October 12, 2009 at 7:25 p.m. #467

was messing around in training. you can get 2 hits from cl HP and 2 hits from standing hk? i get pushed back too far and at best might get 1 kick to connect.

I found something out, gen's crossup doesn't always crossup, thats why it's hard to block. I was fighting someone from the forums and was holding the right block for a crossup, but it wasn't till i switched to a regular block that i finally blocked it.

Posted by Kage on October 12, 2009 at 8:45 p.m. #468

Well now - maybe that's why i have a hard time blocking cross-overs. I'll have to play with that a lil more.

For the double st. HP and st. HK to land you have to be close - i find it best to start with a jumping HP - for some reason it seems when you land coming out of jumping (towards) HP you're even more on top of them than you are with just walking up to them.

The timing for the st HP --> st HK is tricky - but just play with it. It's a meaty 5 hit fierce combo that does decent stun.

Posted by Assassin on October 12, 2009 at 9:35 p.m. #469

@Cowboy:
thanks alot for that info, every good stuff

i'd be interested in Blanka and Sagat and balrog someday too

@kage:
you are right on with that move, its better than the normal wall jump for escaping out the corner, and its them in he back, they must block the opposite direction and it can be dropped down and hit when you opponent is closer than half screen

HK is a very awesome move it hits often, it hits hard, and hit twice, and has pretty good priority, if you are too fro to hit twice with it, dont use it, stick with HP or MK

and the HP double strike should always be used with HP Crystal Rolling Flash. a good way for a set up is the jumping in HP

honestly speaking, the HP double hit to HP CRF should always be considered as an alternate to throwng after a missed special move like an uppercut or after you Fwd dash, or during a star state, it uses no EX and does crazy damage after a jump in HP

Posted by cowboy_soultaker on October 13, 2009 at 8:43 a.m. #470

@assassin
I agree. Tic throwing and Kara Throwing should be always at the ready, because chances are they're not gonna fear your jump in, they'll just go for a throw, and you'll be ready with to tech it. That kurochevsky guy (from that one youtube link) has the timing down perfectly to kara after his cosmic heel, when it's blocked.

So you can get two hits of cl. hp and get in a heavy RCF? I will have to practice that. Honestly I haven't come up with my own stuff yet, I've been working off of that tutorial vid.

Posted by Assassin on October 13, 2009 at 10:16 a.m. #471

@cowboy
man, i think 'm staying over here from now on..

no, its a Hp Cancel, but it does alot more damage than just the 2 HP strikes, it SHOULD be 2strike hit before the CRF but its not, though sometimes you might be able to catch someone with it, more likely a 2hit HP then a LP CRF

you know what else works nice? Fwd Dash + throw, u won't believe how often I throw or kara right after a dash, it has pretty strong properties, the trhow is more like a link, you cant just fire the buttons, have to wait for the right timing.

and i agree the Piece of Mercury should have the named changed to Piece of Crap, but it does hit nicely in some combos where you are running out of strikes and they are about throw in a low kick of some sort, i seldom use it, but every time I have used it it hits.. so, maybe we could look into it a little more

Posted by Kage on October 13, 2009 at 12:45 p.m. #472

Anyone have luck using the EX-RCF to counter a linked fireball? (where the opponent has you on a blockstring which ends in a fireball.) I managed to somewhat get it to counter Ryu's cr mk --> FB link during training - have to start the RCF motion at the end of RYU's mk animation or else it doesn't come out.

I haven't been really able to use the Piece of Mercury for anything. Maybe vs Honda's non-EX headbutts but that's about it.

Posted by Jink on October 13, 2009 at 2:18 p.m. #473

Truism!
Makoto (VE) / Dan (RY) vs. Ojisan Boy (SG) / Tokido (AK:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJsCFn...

Posted by chriss790 on October 13, 2009 at 3:29 p.m. #474

sorry to interrupt your conversation, can you give me any tip how to through lvl4 normal trial first combo, im useless at charging

Posted by cowboy_soultaker on October 13, 2009 at 8:49 p.m. #475

not a problem, you aren't interrupting.

Trial #4 01/03

The minute you jump for the jumping kick, hold back. you don't have to hold back down, just back. do your medium kick like normal, and at the end of your medium kick move your thumb forward and hit light punch. If you do it correctly, as soon as vega puts his foot down it should go into a roll. The timing of the standing mk to light rolling crystal flash is a bit touch, and will take some practice. But that is how you save your charge for it.

02/03

light Scarlet Terror, then immediatly move your thumb to the down-back position. Wait 2 seconds, then do your ex Scarlet Terror. if it's coming out, but late, then you have the right idea, you just need to get yoru thumb to the down-back position faster.

03/03 this is my favorite combo

Do a full level 3 focus attack, dash after its done and do the cosmic heel. Don't let go of downforward, because you are saving the charge. after you do the cosmic heel, and have held the df position for 2 seconds immediately press up-forward and 2 punch buttons. This will knock your opponent in the air, then you just gotta time the left or right + punch right (thats the easy part).

I know you just asked for trial 4 #1 but I figured I'd type out the whole trial. If you need any clarification just ask.

Posted by cowboy_soultaker on October 13, 2009 at 8:51 p.m. #476

Sorry, it is NOT two punch buttons, it's 2 kick buttons. I am so sorry for any confusion. you probably knew what I meant but I feel terrible for missing that. I mean I play him every day >.>

Posted by Assassin on October 14, 2009 at 8:50 a.m. #477

i write all my combos down in wordpad as they come up then i annotate to help me remember

for example, Hard Trial 4 with vega is Jump HP, HP, LK, Crouch MP

then after i get it down i write like this Jump HP, HP, (d) LK, (d) Crouch MP

the (d) means Delay for me, so i know it is not going to work unless i delay to a specific time after the hit.

you may also want to write in (t) for 'tied together' or (f) for 'fire buttons' and (c) for 'cancel'

Posted by Meteo on October 14, 2009 at 10:26 a.m. #478

I know it affects both players' abilities, but latency online really hurts my ground-based izuna drops. I use it a lot in G1 matches in games where I can get 4 or 5 bars, but at 3 sometimes I just have to force myself to forget I have the move at all. Vega's speed makes it really hard to hit when you are practically inputting the grab in mid air before even reaching them. Still, I love floating around their counter attacks like I have a jetpack on and then slamming their ass.

In other news, Blanka still gives me by far the most trouble. I can deal with most other characters my level, but Blanka I can't do much other than poke and a few grabs/RCFs. What are some good ways to counter/punish his moves? I know ST and ultra can punish his super ultra, but not much else. Fierce jumping punch usually trades or gets beaten out by EX jumping ball when I try to stuff it.

Rufus is my favorite (most exciting) character to fight, I can usually avoid/bait his anti-airs and dive kicks. Rufus almost always follows up regular block strings with ex attacks, so be careful with grabs while blocking. If you can counter his arials with ST/airgrab and punish/surprise him with EX FBA/SHC, it's just a great match in my opinion. lol/haha

Posted by Assassin on October 14, 2009 at 11:26 a.m. #479

I played Blanka tonight, i was beaten the first 2 rounds then i won him every other round the rest of the night

I play in the arcade, so i feel lucky not having to deal with what you are dealing with.

I punished his roll with EXFBA's or HK slides

watch out for his slides, block them for sure, they reach super far, or go for a lvl 2 or 3 FA

stay on the ground with blanka, he has a lot of ways to punish air born people and his ex strikes beat out all of vegas ex strikes, even alot of his normal moves beat out vegas EX's

focus attack, and keeping optimal distance is important.

during his mix up games use jab strikes to LCRF or ST

exploit every opportunity when he is not charging, get as airborn as you can with HP, HK, and MK strikes if he isnt charging.

during his ultra, block the first one then jump over it as it comes back down

MP with the claw on during his electricity, or back dash/ half back flip then HK slide

you can pull him out of his electrcity in the beggining and end of it with FBA to Izuna Drop

otherwise over shoot it and go for HK slide

watch out for his LP roll, flip backwards when u see it coming

i hit with piece of mercury a few times during those odd hit exchanges you have with blanka and his funky little strikes

use ST to punish jump ins and his cr. HP long arm strike by prempting his strike

i have real good luck with HP CRF against blanka when he isnt expecting it, but not when he can spin , his spin will beat you everytime.

dont use your bloody claw, not even the EX version works on blankas spins. dont even use it from behind him, he can just spin upwards

save all of your ex for EX FBA punishing rolls to Izuna drop

other than that, just select your strikes very carefully

Posted by Kage on October 14, 2009 at 12:54 p.m. #480

Some other tips:

Punish a blocked Blanka roll with Vega's Ultra.

Learn how to block Blanka's ultra. If you're too close to dash back, Block UP, then block down.

If Blanka does an ultra and IF you're far enough away - you can air throw Blanka out of the first part when he's airborne. Takes some practice but it's easier than it looks.

Posted by cowboy_soultaker on October 14, 2009 at 1:03 p.m. #481

once my TE stick gets here i shouldn't have a problem doing his ultra on command. more times then not if i'm attempting the ultra an ex wall jump comes out. it blows.

lol, sweep punishes ball....interesting.

Posted by noob on October 14, 2009 at 3:47 p.m. #482

does anyone else have a problem with the EX-izuna missing (part of a combo) because the izuna goes the wrong way? I swear I push up-right, and vega goes up-left.

Posted by @482 on October 14, 2009 at 5:03 p.m. #483

If you want to go towards the opponent, you have to HOLD up forward.

Posted by Assassin on October 14, 2009 at 6:56 p.m. #484

also the Ultra works good as he's rolling in, before he hits you, great against ex rolls, the closer your back is to the wall the easier it'll be to catch them

Posted by Meteo on October 15, 2009 at 5:21 a.m. #485

@482, I know what you mean, buts it's a matter of practicing the correct input. If you finish the input and are holding a little bit too much UP instead of UPRIGHT, vega will fly towards his back instead of his front. It's hard to notice in actual matches when it feels like you're doing it right, so repetition in practice mode will help.

The tips about punishing Blanka's blocked rolls with EX-FBA helped, that seems like the easiest punish in the match. I noticed that I wasn't able to punish blocked rolls consistently with slides or Ultra at mid-screen. However, When either player is in a corner, punishing rolls with slides/ultra/ST becomes easy. Also, if Blanka's slide is too close, it can be punished with ST or cr medium kick into ST/EX-FBA. Keeping blanka in a corner is a great thing to do I think. Random FBA's/SKH's are not.

I'm going to start typing up a few things I think about various matchups for the other arcade characters soon.

Posted by Meteo on October 15, 2009 at 5:26 a.m. #486

woops, "SKH"? I meant SHC (Sky High Claw)

"Bloody High Claw" is Vega's ultra, tricky terminology difference

Posted by Assassin on October 15, 2009 at 7:31 a.m. #487

I hit with the ultra every single time these days, today I had Chunli's fist right in my face when it started, which looked cool

try this, instead of jumping at the same time they jump, jump up and back when they are on their way down, this will usually provoke them to jump forward again at which time you can ultra them. you can usually just throw it out as soon as you land. otherwise, i am really starting to enjoy getting backed into a corner, because its one of the most saisfying ways to land the Ultra

timing on it largely depends on your distance from the wall, though, but i hit with my utra every single round and sometimes twice per round.

just imagine you are a shoto, and as soon as you would throw a firebal, and know the other person is thinking the same thing, throw it out. I have his with my ultra when they are in the middle of throwing it out, not even pushing it out yet

i really love the ultra and i dont want it changed at all anymore, other than being able to combo into it.

and Scarelt Terror has been my best friend these past few days, i have hit with it so much I alsmost don't want it tochange, except that Vega needs to move up

i throw it in after all CRF's and it hits almost every time.

this is a very easy combo i'm almost embarrassed to write it so easy but it works all the time. when you get a shoto with a crouch MP, pause one moment to eilcit a reaction then throw it out instead of throwing out immediately, sit on it a moment, delay a second, then do it, you'll find it hits every time..

jump in and strike, crouch mp, delay, ST

and i am hitting with my HP CRF almost every time, at least getting the block damage, I dont even want it changed anymore. (except vega needs buffing) I'm not sure exactly what I'm doing , its all part of game timing, but mostly its just after a delay as well

as for buffing vega, I vote to keep all moves the same (Piece of Mercury needs to be overhead) and just increase the combos and links to include multiple EX moves with Ultras/Supers

Posted by Assassin on October 15, 2009 at 7:43 a.m. #488

Piece of Mercury needs to be a double overhead strike, or better yet, one high strike and one low strike

Posted by Meteo on October 15, 2009 at 8:15 a.m. #489

"jump in and strike, crouch mp, delay, ST"

If you get that first jump-in strike, I'd much rather follow the full combo through to the crouch-mp/mk + ST or EX-FBA rather than wait for a delay. Hey, its guaranteed damage. If they block the first overhead jump-in, expect a possible DP to break your attack (in the case a shoto blocks your jump in, grab or delay or KKK after the block)

Be careful with RCF followed by ST. It works a lot for me too because Vega *looks* vulnerable after a blocked RCF, but an opponent who knows the trick will block it and deal you one hell of a punishment. A good test is to try a FBA first and see how they react to it: If they dont seem to counter your moves perfectly, RCF to ST is probably a good bet.

I like to start a match with a FBA, wiffing it safely if I need to. Just doing this can get you a bit of a read on who your opponent is. :D

Posted by Assassin on October 15, 2009 at 9:15 a.m. #490

the crouch can be blocked as well, it really doesnt matter.

i get in alot of stand offs with Ryu and Ken in crouching positions, and a good Shoto always delays, because they rely very heavily on landing a combo, it seems thats all they can do, anyway, the Crouch MP delay can be done from anything, standing HK or HP, standing MP, FA, Dash, whatever, it doesnt rely on getting an initial hit as the EXFBA does, and the ST will usually just whiff. the reason for the delay is that your ST will hit them because they are trying to strike at the same time whcih will catch them up with a double hit ST

the EX ST i found trades hits or even beats out with a perfectly times FA that is going to hit you no matter what as you stand up. of course pressing down on the joystick when you fall can help to avoid those situations

and same thing with the CRF, you come of out of it, and pause a moment, long enough for them to decide to strike first, then you throw out your ST, it works because you delay before you do it, then just do it after a delay, you arent actually reacting to their first strike, it will hit them before they strike, you wont even see their strike, but it hits because they were going to strike

Posted by Assassin on October 15, 2009 at 9:19 a.m. #491

otherwise it just whiffs, even with a landed crouching MP or crouck MK

Posted by Assassin on October 15, 2009 at 10:25 a.m. #492

That gets me thinking.. what do you all do for starting off the match, first moves?

jump in with Air throw

fwd dash kara throw

Fwd a split second + MK

EXFBA

EX SHC from your back wall (prempting a fireball)

FA fwd dash

LP RCF

Fwd Jump HP

Wall Dive Izuna

flip backwards

what is your most common instinct

Posted by Meteo on October 15, 2009 at 11:16 a.m. #493

vs a typical shoto?

This covers the *typical* first 2 seconds of round 1 vs a new opponent. Just because multiple things could occur does not mean they are equally likely.

http://i695.photobucket.com/albums/vv...

Posted by cowboy_soultaker on October 15, 2009 at 1:41 p.m. #494

nice flow-chart, meteo.

First thing I do is back-off and see what kind of game they're playing. If the first thing they do is a fireball, and I land my FBA then I know that I can win as long as I don't eff up too bad. if they don't throw a fireball, I know they've fought claws before, so I try not to jump in too much.

If they turtle I just build up my ex with l. ST's. They usually smell blood and come out of the turtle.

I think the only time I lead off with offense is in round two if I'm fighting a jumpy character, I go for the air throw.

Posted by Assassin on October 15, 2009 at 5:41 p.m. #495

ya, cool chart, thanks

I always do something right off the bat, just because i feel thats half the fun of the game is to out wit (out guess) your oponent right off the line.

I always feel disappointed when someone just backs off

its a little bit of a friendly wager, it feels like a little game inside of a game.

I usually jump in with an air throw

sometimes i like to hit them with the MK, that can hit them out of a fireball if you press forward on the joystick slightly first

its like a bit of a gamble, almost like a card game of some sort, you win or you lose, but i think its alot of fun when someone, either one, gets the first strike from an off the line action

but the flow chart is cool, just watch out for a HP shoryuken, that will usually hit your mid-air stall, requiring you to stall almost straight up from the wall instead while you check his game

of course sagats fireball will knock you right off the wall if uses it straight off the ground, in which case beginning with a HK sweep would have been a good bet. Will a ken or ryu HP fireball right off the line hit you before you can leap around it off the wall?

Posted by Meteo on October 15, 2009 at 9:59 p.m. #496

It's really a tricky game of reactions and timing. If the guy counters it well, usually that means he's anticipating some of my moves, which makes me try and bait him more often. A lot of times I can avoid and izuna drop their failed shoryuken counters. I dont throw out random non-ex FBA's if I'm crowded or am in range to get hit before I'm off the wall.

Posted by VegaFabioLaCerda on October 16, 2009 at 8:41 a.m. #497

LOL@#376

all that Vega rocking was throwing my eyes off balance. I'ma try that next gief

Posted by VegaFabioLaCerda on October 16, 2009 at 9:26 a.m. #498

@#408

Vega's Flying Barcelona Special hits 4 times not 3. if you're hitting 3 times you're starting too late or have the wrong angle. Hit the back of the head.

Posted by Assassin on October 17, 2009 at 9:32 a.m. #499

well, you have to be close enough to do a regular throw anyway, the hit doesnt take much priority over anything than a throw will with the exception of Blankas electricity, and occasionally on a jumping sriking character.

the super throw has a MUCH wider hit box than the super slash. i can't even count how many supers I have whiffed altogether simply because of character evasion. if I cant grab with the giant super hitbox, there's simply no way I'm going to hit with the strikes. any Super strikes are accidental/ failed Actual supers. with the exception maybe chunli or blanka.

as long of a start up as the move has, to get in close enough for the srikes you'd have to be fighting a guy who was asleep at the controller to pull off a strike.

can anyone here show me the HIT/ power/ damage difference between a Super with all throws verses a "4" hit super, on an opponent with full health?

unless the strikes was actually bigger damage than the super, it seems completely useless, and I would like to know the damage comparison with the 3-strike hit as well

Posted by Assassin on October 17, 2009 at 9:38 a.m. #500

maybe good against Zangief too, his Lariet. you have to catch themm with their pants completely down while they are distracted by the colorful background to pull it off. though against characters like Chun's EX spinning bird kick, the Lariet and Electricity it prove usable, but exactly nothing else. it should have larger hitbox and at least be as powerful as the other super

Posted by cowboy_soultaker on October 17, 2009 at 11:56 a.m. #501

special with izuna does 330, special with 4 strikes does 280

Posted by VegaFabioLaCerda on October 17, 2009 at 7:44 p.m. #502

No it's pretty much just for show. there's never a circumstance where it is more beneficial to use the striking special instead of izuna. oh and the super does 308 for striking (4 hits no mask) 198 (3 hits no mask) and 363 for izuna (no mask). I also noticed that all attacks are affected in damage by the claw.... i thought only claw attacks were affected by claw.

Posted by Assassin on October 17, 2009 at 8:08 p.m. #503

wow, thats quite substantial, no wonder the mask costs 2 ex bars to lose, i'm never picking it up again

Posted by Meteo on October 18, 2009 at 2:35 a.m. #504

Well just be prepared to take 25% more damage! If you're using a lot of focus attacks it's probably better to minimize the absorbed damage with the mask on, but if you're going to land an ultra you might as well lose that sucker!

Posted by VegaFabioLaCerda on October 18, 2009 at 7:37 a.m. #505

it's only 10% more damage taken without mask... and damage scaling really works in our favor

Posted by VegaFabioLaCerda on October 18, 2009 at 7:49 a.m. #506

by the way, am i the only 1 that gets extremely aggressive with blanka.... i used to hate fighting him, but i've fought so many that i said "f- it. i'm going after this f-er." and HP RCF into 2 in 1 cMP, LP RCF into, 2 in 1 cMP, LP RCF into, 2 in 1 cMP, LP RCF into... etc until they ex roll out of it or jump, then go after them again until they get out fo it, then get close block, anticipate ultra, dash back and air throw him outta ultra, then resume RCF pressure.

Posted by Meteo on October 18, 2009 at 10:28 a.m. #507

So 10% more damage taken and 10% more damage given? I'm forgetting, not sure anymore how it exactly balances out in the end either way.

As far as Blanka goes, I'm starting to try some new stuff but am still not very aggressive. RCF loops I try tend to get busted, and most of my damage dealt comes from pokes and punishes in the corners.

Maybe I'll try recording a match or two for youtube and here.

Posted by cowboy_soultaker on October 18, 2009 at 10:51 a.m. #508

well, hindsight is 20-20 as they say, reviewing a video could help you, and would also give an objective viewer (us) something to look at and offer advice on. With all my shortcomings lately I may be a bit more reserved in that department, wouldn't want to be the blind leading the blind (not that you're as bad as me)

Posted by VegaFabioLaCerda on October 18, 2009 at 11:05 a.m. #509

claw = +10% damage dealt
mask = -10% damage dealt -10% damage taken.

best offensive combo... claw + no mask
if you lose claw either pick it up or lose the mask.

and just curious what the hell does Vega say at the start of his ultra.

and for RCF loops you literally have to keep them constant and vary between LP MP and HP RCF. occasionally when you suspect a counterattack just block. but once you get blanka into the corner charging and blocking it's usually safe to jump and start a new combo with jHP, continue with whatever. onyl the best of the best blankas manage to get out of it and usually even they are down some health. RCF works wonders on blankas against wake up electricity. and if the slide is out and they roll you'll hit them. blanka is one of the few people we actually have some priority on.

the key to everything is being able to manufacture a charge out of nowhere and timing... it also helps to know what blanks's tend to do when you do certain moves so that you can anticipate what coming.

which brings me to my next point.... any speed increase in SSFIV would be sooooo nice. i'm already at executing ultra before fireball even leaves the character's hands or forward wall ultra on jumpy people (aka chun li, ryu, ken) then again i can't wait to see what awesome goodies Vega gets in the next game.

Posted by cowboy_soultaker on October 18, 2009 at 2:08 p.m. #510

@509
I think "look out behind you" is what he says.

Posted by Jink on October 18, 2009 at 2:26 p.m. #511

"BLOODY HIGH CLAW! HAAAHAHAHAHAA!!" That's what he says.

Posted by Th3 JoK3R J on October 18, 2009 at 6:20 p.m. #512

@Jink Cowboy aslo VegaFabioLaCerda

Both of you are wrong and Jink he said at the "start of the Ultra" not when he's attacking.
When Vega connects to the wall he say
"Soke in your own blood" also some people think he say "Choke" instead of "Soak"

Posted by Th3 JoK3R J on October 18, 2009 at 6:48 p.m. #513

lol I said "Soke" i mean Soak

Posted by cowboy_soultaker on October 18, 2009 at 9:24 p.m. #514

I think he says "yodel-layheehoo" XD

Posted by VegaFabioLaCerda on October 18, 2009 at 10:42 p.m. #515

thanks Jok3er... been wondering that for months.

Posted by Assassin on October 19, 2009 at 8:27 a.m. #516

@506:

i'm excited to hear you play aggressively with Vega against Blanka, you have to treat him like the animal he is. put him in his place like one would a rabid dog.

I really hope that the Vega camp gets good enough to demand some respect in SF4. your tips are spot on. Blanka is one that (just like a dog) you cannot flinch or show an ounce of fear, you have to own him, become his master, step up and meet his every action with dominance and aggression, show him who's boss, beat him down, battle him pound for pound with whatever he brings.

Posted by Dave on October 19, 2009 at 8:43 a.m. #517

@ VegaFabioLacerda

I've tested it in training mode several times and looked at the attack data.

1. Pick any character in training mode and have your opponent be vega
2. Smack him around until his mask comes off.
3. Go into training options and enable attack data on
4. Strike Vega using any attack and notice the 125% damage

So here it is in short.

Mask on Claw on - 100% damage

Mask on Claw off - 90% damage (Claw attacks only. Kicks do normal damage)

Mask off Claw on - 110% damage

Mask off Claw off - The damage is weird here. Far away standing punches seem to do more than kicks, if not just as much. Yet close up and crouching punches do less than kicks.

But in the long run the damage is less (for punches). The ultra normally does 450, yet without the mask and claw it only does 415.

I always switch to kick attacks when i lose my gear. If the claw's off, damage will still be the same. If the mask is off, i still get a damage bonus.

The only problem is that your poking game gets alot worse since the range is less

Posted by Dave on October 19, 2009 at 10:14 a.m. #518

Vega also has character-specific combos. Different characters have different-sized hitboxes. There are some combos that will work on some characters, yet not on others. I will list them here.

1. Jumping FP, cMK, cMP, EX-Walldive to izuna drop

Damage = 351

Works on - Sakura, Rose, Rufus, C.Viper, Abel, Boxer, Sagat, Dictator, Seth, Guile, Zangief, Chun-Li, Dhalsim, Gouken, Cammy

2. Jumping FP, cMK, light ST, EX-ST

Damage = 327

Works on - Gen, Rose, El Fuerte, Rufus, C.Viper, Abel, Boxer, Claw, Sagat, Seth, Guile, Chun-Li, Blanka, Gouken, Cammy, Fei Long

3. Jumping FP, standing FP, cMP, EX-walldive to izuna drop

Damage = 381

Works on - Sakura, Rose, Rufus, C.Viper, Abel, Boxer, Sagat, Seth, Guile, Zangief, Chun-Li, Dhalsim, Cammy

The only characters who cannot be hit with ANY of these combos are Ryu, Ken, Dan, and Honda

ALL of these combos work on Seth, Sagat, Boxer, Rose, Chun-Li, Abel, Rufus, Guile, Cammy, and C.Viper

As stated the hitboxes in this game are very weird. Prime examples are how the EX-ST combo will whiff a tall character like zangief, yet hit smaller characters such as rose and chun-li

Posted by Meteo on October 19, 2009 at 1:11 p.m. #519

Remember when Dave was talking about the difference between ending a combo with EX-FBA vs EX-ST? EX-FBA only does one more damage in the j.HP c.MK EX-FBA combo (315), and dave argued it was better to use the EX-ST ending because sometimes sh*t happens and you miss the Izuna Drop.

Well, I have a better reason to use it:
The EX-ST ending has 65 more stun (500 total vs 445)

I'm never ending with EX-FBA again, haha, unless they JUST got stunned and are getting low on health.

Here's another option that is of debatable use:

In Claw's character-specific combos, the jumping HP standing HP crouching MP parts should still connect on everyone I think. This part alone does 298 damage and 460 instead. You could do that, and then are safe from an immediate counter if you want to do a normal wall dive away from the opponent. This can keep your momentum rolling and if you connect with a Barcelona Attack its an extra 90 damage and 100 stun, and the regular Izuna Drop is 150/150.

j.HP c.MK to ST combo does 298 damage and 460 stun.

j.HP c.MK EX-ST does 314/500

j.HP HP c.MP alone does 298/460
if a follow up regular FBA attack hits, +90/100=388/560
if a follow up regular Izuna connects, +150/150=448/610

It's less guaranteed damage and most worthwhile against only some characters, but can be useful still if you want to get back at certain characters who spam moves like Dragon Punches to bust your combo links. You throw in that safe FBA after a hit string, and they wiff that DP counter at the same time. If they don't have a good DP-like counter, hell, throw in an EX-SHC from their back after the c.MP!

Posted by VegaFabioLaCerda on October 19, 2009 at 1:17 p.m. #520

@Dave

yeah I saw it. didnt know the damage was that high... kinda explains a couple things.

@Assassin

any non SRK except cammy and Zangief i'm pretty aggressive against. I'm also pretty aggressive aginst "timid" players that tend to be cautious and wait for a counterattack. counter focus attacking the counter attack really works wonders.

Posted by VegaFabioLaCerda on October 19, 2009 at 1:21 p.m. #521

@Mateo

you're right but it's pretty difficult to pull off jHP unless you're really good at setting it up. anyone getting hit with it clearly wasnt expecting it. Occasional use might be ok but proceed with caution.

Posted by VegaFabioLaCerda on October 19, 2009 at 1:22 p.m. #522

@Mateo

you're right but it's pretty difficult to pull off jHP unless you're really good at setting it up. anyone getting hit with it clearly wasnt expecting it. Occasional use might be ok but proceed with caution.

Posted by VegaFabioLaCerda on October 20, 2009 at 7:38 a.m. #523

so yeah i always had problems with blocking throws and throwing on the ground. So i go "ok for 1 whole hour i'm only going to fight from the corner and back myself into a corner constantly... time and time again it's like people didnt know what to do lol. most threw fireballs which i punished severly, some actually did try to start some combos and stuff.... i don't know if they were really trying or not but when you go into a corner with the approach of learning or just blocking instead of trying to win you see s-tloads of openings in peoples combos. then again it could be they are thinking it's a trap but i dunno.

Posted by Meteo on October 20, 2009 at 4:16 p.m. #524

I had trouble filming new worthwhile matches of my own so far, but in the meantime, I found some replays on xbox live that may be worth taking a look at for effective strategies. Here they are, uploaded to youtube:

OMFG its Jr (VE 18k) vs El Sweepador (BL 41k)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=susXAt...

Haze the Ripper (BL 24k) vs Agent Hoy (VE 27k)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-svH9...

GoldBabylon (GU 68k) vs HotRod 8697 (VE 15k)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdzjOf...

WHIP LATIGO (ZA 29k) vs DARK STAR NT (VE 29k)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALMsVJ...

That last one vs. gief has some funny stuff in it :P

Posted by Dave on October 20, 2009 at 7:30 p.m. #525

I played with OMG its Jr. He's on my friends list.

We he's an up and comming vega and he asked for some tips when we did a Claw mirror match, but all-around he's good with execution.

BTW, my gamertag is FoutsKazuya if any of you want to play

Posted by @524 on October 21, 2009 at 5:20 p.m. #526

Nice vids. Can't see if the last one's Vega is really any good because that was a horrible gief. I mean how long did whip latigo have play to get 29k playing like that.

Posted by Dave on October 21, 2009 at 6:05 p.m. #527

I agree, that Zangief was pretty terrible, spamming green hands even after the 20th time getting punished for it.

The Grade Points dont really mean that much, they're more based on how often you play Championship mode, rather than actual skill.

It's always funny to me when i play someone with 12,000 GP who is terrible, then i'll start a new room and a guy with 2,000 GP comes in, and he's 10 times better than the other guy.

Ranked match was a better determiner of skill, in the fact that you didnt get rewarded points for losing. But at the same time, that mode was filled with baby ragequitters

Posted by VegaFabioLaCerda on October 21, 2009 at 11:19 p.m. #528

@Dave

half the time (myself included) that's because G1 players tend to start over and play in G2. i'm actually on round 5 in starting over. it's funny cause i pretty much dominate anyone in G2 including the G1 returners but the instant i go in G1 i struggle to get past the semi's. on top of that i use a ps3 controller... and man my left hand hurts from charging after damn near every match. i think the low grade like 40k and under G1 people are fun because the matches are really close (except for the people who can't play for s-t). I literally have to play at the top of my gamewith no mistakes. the 41k and up guys i almost don't even take seriously. i just work on blocking as much as i can and observing openings for future reference.

Man i need to invest in something that can record matches cause it looks good when it's whoever gets the next hit wins and whoever misses and i nail 'em with a crossup ultra. Anyone know of a good digital recorder i can connect to my ps3 to record my own matches? (preferably not a VCR)

Posted by VegaFabioLaCerda on October 22, 2009 at 10:01 a.m. #529

Anyone know how to do the dash forward ultra seen here from 0:21 to 0:28

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0A71F...

Posted by joe karma on October 23, 2009 at 10:27 p.m. #530

some changed id like to see with vega in the next game are

-slightly more aoe on ultra
-super acts like EX fba so it can be useful
-EX fba always hit on the way up. nothing like using ex meter to fly around with the opponent... also invincible on the way up
-EX sky claw invincible on the way up
-improved scarlet terror.. much like flash kick they both blow in this game.

and VegaFabioLaCerda #529 you charge db, dash foward ff, df, d, db, u

Posted by VegaFabioLaCerda on October 24, 2009 at 8:02 a.m. #531

that's going to take at least 2 weeks to even get close to working. I use D Pad and circles on d pad is hard

Posted by cowboy_soultaker on October 24, 2009 at 3:01 p.m. #532

O.o dashforward ultra? Intense....the possibilities

Posted by Kage on October 25, 2009 at 11:56 p.m. #533

Just found out Vega's RCF will beat out Abel's wake-up super/Ultra. It's important to be literally right on top as if you're late the super/Ultra will connect.

It's a nice bait if your opponent doesn't know the match-up.

Posted by Meteo on October 26, 2009 at 9:35 p.m. #534

Nice to know, Kage. Good Abels can be f*cking tricky.

Posted by Jink on October 27, 2009 at 12:37 a.m. #535

Thanks Kage.

Posted by Kage on October 27, 2009 at 9:25 a.m. #536

I'm _just_ about to hit G1 and thinking to myself - I'm not all too bad. THEN I see this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Boe8cT...

and I think, man - I'm still a noob.
(video courtesy of gootecks.com)

Posted by Th3 JoK3R J on October 27, 2009 at 5:16 p.m. #537

@VegaFabioLaCerda

Yes it's kinda difficult to do but how he did it was

He kept his down back charge while focus dash canceling
when you dash your charge is still there after that quick dash all he did was just inputted the command (without having to charge again).

That's how he did it it's the same for all charge character Bison/ Chun-Li for them all u have to do is hold back Focus dash cancel and and follow it up with thier usual ultra command.

Posted by Jink on October 29, 2009 at 8:40 p.m. #538

I was half way on G2, winning a few more days for G3, but my PS3 got YLOD. Now I can't play, but I'll buy a new PS3 slim.

Posted by VegaFabioLaCerda on October 30, 2009 at 10:23 a.m. #539

Jink... 2 questions

which model is it?
and
can you donate it to me?

:P

worth a try

Posted by Jink on October 30, 2009 at 9:29 p.m. #540

@VegaFabio

Lol, sorry. Me and my bro are finishing fixing it.

Posted by Meteo on October 31, 2009 at 11:38 p.m. #541

Woo Halloween
http://tinyurl.com/ghetto-vega
last minute improvisation...

Posted by Ioannis86 on November 1, 2009 at 9:11 a.m. #542

Any helpful tips with difficult mutchups like guile,e.honda and blanka's beast roll will be highly appreciated

Posted by Meteo on November 1, 2009 at 11:25 a.m. #543

Most importantly, practice and learn to exploit every opening with the most damage you can do. Try to get to the point where you can consistantly Izuna Drop people out of focus attacks, learn when KKK is best to use, and break any bad habits you see yourself forming. Sometimes you'll be having trouble for a long time and things start clicking and the problems clear up.

Situational tips:

Guiles like to sonic boom at point blank. EX-ST can go through them and will send him flying. Guile's flash kick is not a good anti-air vs vega if vega is doing a wall dive directly above him. Vega's cr.MP tends to interrupt and slash up guile when guile throws out random kicks and hits. Beware of guile's air grab, and also the fact that Guile has very fast recovery from sonic boom, so a full screen BHC ultra counter is risky. I have a bit of luck with RCF pressure in this match.

Honda's I have a bit of trouble with only if I play the same guy over and over and they get smart on the matchup. Honda does well when he's in close and you're on the ground, so avoid that situation and be ready to think fast to avoid his command throws and ground pounds. Walldives can catch him doing a lot, but not if he's waiting for it or has an ultra ready. His simple jumping anti air will REALLY hurt you quick. Jumping HK is useful in the air I think, grab his ass after missed ground pounds, or just EX-FBA through anything he wiffs.

We just had a lot of discussion on Blanka. Look above for some tips and videos. After a blocked blanka roll, EX-FBA through it as he bouces off. If he does one of those jump-back arc balls, I've seen people do a level 3 focus attack to absorb the first hit and blow him up when he lands. Beware of the slide and punish it if he tries it too close. Go in practice mode to get the technique down for blocking his ultra and punishing it. Sometimes a properly timed j.HP will stuff his normal balls, as does a LP on the ground. If you or he are in the corner, vega's slide starts punishing blocked special moves he does. Dont walldive almost at all, maybe only once in the match if you think it would throw him off guard with how he was playing you previously. Some carefully timed RCF pressure and cr.MP's can also help.

Posted by Ioannis86 on November 1, 2009 at 1:21 p.m. #544

Thanks for the helpful tips however in the guile section mind that not only his air throw but his jumping Hard K will knock you out of many wall dives.Also i think RCF gets beaten cleanly by right timed flask kicks(certainly bu ex-one's). About the BHC vs his sonic boom you are right he will almost always have time to block you and then you are in trouble

Posted by VegaFabioLaCerda on November 1, 2009 at 1:36 p.m. #545

For Guile just go ahead and start the match off with a FBA and aim for a cross up. So far 9/10 times Guile's first attack will be a sonic boom. if he doesnt then you know he's not a pushover. If he does just mix it up with SHC and FBA (both fakes and real ones). When you see guile walking back anticipate the sonic boom and nail him with a mixture of crossover and near side FBA. when you see him ducking he's charging for flash kick and fake FBA to try amd make him whiff (and punish if he does). aviod backflips if possible. FA the 2nd hit of his cHK and counter, dash toward, block whatever he is about to do and grab. when you see him at full screen for his sonic booms try to entice him into throwing them over and over (usually by FA all the non-ex ones)when you have ultra wait for guile to throw a sonic boom and PPP through it. just as you come out of the PPP moost guiles will throw a 2nd and be ready to run toward you. nail him with the ultra before that sonic boom even leaves his hands. if you get a jumpy guile time your FBA to start as he begins to fall from his jump or if you can do a crossover ultra by grabbing the forward wall going under guile's jump so that you nail him on the way down.

As for blanka.... most are pretty easy. almost every regular attack you have can stuff a regular roll (HP, HK, LP, cMP, cLP, cHK, jHP, **jHK** hint hint). so with that in mind go ahead and start the match off with a PPP. be ready to block down and be ready for a throw. you want to keep him on the ground as much as possible. the key here is not to counter with any special moves really. keep him on the ground at 2X cMP distance away and poke poke poke (cMP, cLP cMP, cLP cMPXX LP-RCF, HP-RCF *this is your best friend*, and cHK). the reason to keep him at 2x cMP distance is because eventually he will have ultra meter. when that happens kinda back off for a minute and sorta look defensive. wait for him to ultra. when he does and you see the animation for it hold up until it starts. at the peak of your jump air throw him out of his ultra. immidaitely hold a charge back and when you land do a HP-RCF him into the corner and poke poke poke him to death. the only real counter he has for this is a throw(or bite) and his ex roll. i never let either really stop me. if i get hit with it best he can do is 3 more of them. if you end up at a distance and he does the arc ball, either EX FBA, cHK, HK-ST, Air throw Ultra or HP-RCF him as he lands. try to entice him into whiffing a vertical ball and nail him as he lands. Whatever you do, do NOT input the ultra command while blanka is in the animation for his. It will nail you out of yours. wait till he leaves the ground then input it.

Posted by VegaFabioLaCerda on November 1, 2009 at 1:38 p.m. #546

@544 also for jumping guiles (or anyone) ues more than HP SHC's LP SHC's do same damage and hit higher.

Posted by VegaFabioLaCerda on November 1, 2009 at 1:46 p.m. #547

As for Honda,

SHC will beat sumo head butt unless you start late. FA will absorb his sumo ass drop. Pretty much do the opposite of blanka. Stay in the air a lot. Watch for his jumping HP. when you see it SHC. try to push him into the corner. if you can then pressure the hell outta him. this is when you use all those combos you learned in Hard trials. jump, slash and roll him to death. pretty much anticipate his butt grab as his wake up and you should be set

Posted by VegaFabioLaCerda on November 1, 2009 at 1:48 p.m. #548

http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthrea...

Here's some really good tips for match-ups.

Posted by Th3 JoK3R J on November 2, 2009 at 3:08 a.m. #549

Sup,yall should witness the best Vega player Makoto own both
Tokido akuma and Ojisan Boy Sagat it's great!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=codILI...

Don't mind the french lol

Posted by Th3 JoK3R J on November 2, 2009 at 3:18 a.m. #550

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tmx25X...

without the french

Posted by VegaFabioLaCerda on November 2, 2009 at 9:13 a.m. #551

going by the video I wouldnt say he's the best... he's good but personally I think myself and a few other Vegas I know are better than him. He made a LOT of mistakes in there.

@2:24 Either made an untintional LP SHC which means he doesnt 100% have the controls down or he intentionally did it and made a poor choice of moves to get away (or guessed Sagat would jump). That's a move you should NEVER do unless you are 100% sure it will hit.

@2:44 I could see what he was trying to do but if you fight enough sagats you'll know that when you see fireballs like that it's a trap. He jumped waaay too late and he got nailed for it. Makoto should have either waited for the 3rd fireball and jumped, Focus'd dashforward and block, or EX-SHC through them. There were too many better options out there than jumping late.

@2:58 He was lucky there. he SHC to get out of the corner. Again there were better options. I don't know anything about this Sagat but I can promise you I would never be able to escape a corner that way against a skilled Sagat. However because Sagat made the bigger mistake of letting him get away with it Vega ends up winning.

@3:18 Ok so you're caught in the start of a Sagat pressure loop. It's ok to test the waters once to see if you can counter but if your cLP gets stuffed... don't keep trying to counter with it. That ended up pushing you all the way into the corner..... where you don't want to be. Throwing or Tech Throwing could be used to interrupt. standing HK would have been a more viable option. and as you can see 8 seconds later look how much health he had lost. But he was stubborn and managed to pull it off at 3:25 and escape the corner.

@3:38 Again if something doesn't work... don't do it again. he tried FA sagat's jHK 8 seconds ago and it didnt work then. Backdash, Air Throw, LP ST, cHP, jHK. Patterns kill you fast. ESPECIALLY patterns that don't work. Kiss another 30% health goodbye.

@3:45 You put Sagat into the corner and then give it to him with 10~15% health left.... poor decision making there. Lots of more choices he could have done.

Posted by VegaFabioLaCerda on November 2, 2009 at 9:14 a.m. #552

@3:50 Most of the mistakes now are simply due to either poor decision making or inexperience. This one is mostly for advanced and expert players. he had a good run making a comback fighting an uphill battle from the corner most of the fight. 1 thing you can control is which side you're on after landing an izuna drop. Apparently he was more focused on the combo that setting himself up well. If he had crossed over sagat in the air he would have wound up out of the corner instead of in the corner. It takes a little bit of practice to master but it always helps to put the other guy into the corner instead of yourself.

@3:54 If you look 2 seconds prior you'll see sagat jHP. He's expecting you from the air. So what does Vega do? He jumps in. When you see someone expecting aerial attacks that's just asking for a whiff. Fake him out, make him whiff and nail him.

@4:08 Ok... so Vega finally get's smart and realized that jumping in without a set up is bad. This is what seperates good players from great players. Sagat has used the same start up for a combo at least 3 times (jHK, cLK into something). Standing HK to knock him out of the air or even a HK ST would have worked. A cHK was way too much of a gamble. Vega was hoping Sagat would land on it but it wasnt timed right and the damage and position wasnt worth it. a HK ST might have gotten stuffed but again it's all about reaction time. Whatever he was thinking ended up with himself in the corner fighting uphill again.

If you notice, when he stops trying to counter blocked combos and gets better at his reaction time he starts winning again. He almost let it get away. This guy suffers from what I call "autopilot syndrome." Basically he has preset moves he tends to do to respond to an opponent. The problem with this is that you tend to not be very fluid in your choosing of moves. You end up being stubborn, determined to get a specific move to work and keep getting punished for it. When it doesnt work then you tend to try to haphazardly counter and usually end up in the corner. It took him 2 and a half rounds to stop automatically doing moves and actually respond to his opponent. I think this is a pretty good Vega but I wouldnt say the best or even great. There's just too many major mistakes that he made. (unless he intentionally just wanted it to be close)

Posted by Th3 JoK3R J on November 7, 2009 at 12:22 p.m. #553

Well he defeated the 2nd best Sagat and one of the top 3 Akuma's in a row >_>

Posted by Gerbhofz on November 7, 2009 at 12:54 p.m. #554

Hello everyone.

I just figured out the other day that you can ultra punish Blanka's straight ball attack if you block it and do the ultra right away. I've had my difficulties with blanka players and started trying out some tactics and this works for all ball attacks if you block them.

You have all probably figured this out already but anyway.. :P

Posted by Nub on November 7, 2009 at 8:20 p.m. #555

Also, against Honda's normal head butt - after blocking the headbutt - walk up and standing medium kick to counter before Honda can get into block.

Posted by VegaFabioLaCerda on November 8, 2009 at 10:05 a.m. #556

@554 and @555

you can air throw blanka and honda out of every aerial attack they have (double checking on honda's ultra). or if you're fast enough.... you can ultra and nail blanka out of his roll before it hits you.

Posted by VegaFabioLaCerda on November 8, 2009 at 10:11 a.m. #557

yep... you can air throw outta honda's ultra too

Posted by VegaFabioLaCerda on November 8, 2009 at 10:37 a.m. #558

If any of you want to watch I'll be in an online tournament streaming my matches. www.justin.tv/mrwootwoot

starts today at 6PM EST or 3PM PST

Posted by theonly_J on November 10, 2009 at 3:32 a.m. #559

Hey i just wanted to put up a video of me playing my friend... I wasn't playing my A game but its still a good video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QE3xTx...

If you want to play me on PSN hit me up: theonly_J
(even though i hate vega mirror matches)

Posted by Jaf on November 10, 2009 at 9:09 p.m. #560

There's another very Claw player by the name of 'Nao'

Posted by Jaf on November 10, 2009 at 9:10 p.m. #561

very *good I mean to say

Posted by Kage on November 10, 2009 at 11:52 p.m. #562

omg - just discovered the fine art of plinking. can't believe i didn't know about this before. Now my J HP --> st. cl HP --> HP-RCF comes out literally 90% of the time. Before the plink it was 50% at best.

http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthrea...

now if I could only get the jab RCF -> st. HK combo...

Posted by Meteo on November 11, 2009 at 10:32 a.m. #563

So explain to me this "plinking" in a Vega context.

I j.HP, but then when I st.HP to RCF what is different about the input? Usually I just hold back st.HP and quickly push forward and tap HP again, but yeah 50% at best.

Posted by Kage on November 11, 2009 at 1:29 p.m. #564

Hey Meteo,

So instead of just hitting st. HP and towards for the RCF, hit st. HP~LK instead.

"HP~LK" means you hit HP a fraction of a second before you hit LK - almost like Kara throw timing. The LK never comes out - but now a single tap of the HP~LK registers HP across 2 frames and makes the combo easier to land.

Technically, any button with "lower" priority than HP will work. (By button priority if you hit both buttons at the same time - the higher priority button will register with the attack you see on the screen.) So HP~LK works, but so does HP~MK.

For Vega specifically, you can't use HP~MP since this triggers the EX-RCF which isn't necessarily what you're trying to do.

Just thought of something - my EX-Scarlet Terror always seems to come out easier than my non-EX ST's (after a df HK). Going to try a combination of HK~MP or MK~JP to see if this makes it easier for me to time.

The exact button priority list is detailed in that link posted above.

Posted by Meteo on November 12, 2009 at 4:54 a.m. #565

the st.Hp to fierce RCF isn't all that useful to me anyway unless you can pull off crazy FADC stuff afterwards (I can almost never)

Still, I could see the p-linking effect in training mode when linking a cr.MK to cr.MP~LK. It feels awkward though so I won't be trying to really use it at this point.

Posted by Kage on November 12, 2009 at 11:34 a.m. #566

I agree. My initial enthusiasm as somewhat worn off.

I was hoping the p-link would me somewhat of a link master. Unfortunately while it does make links easier, it doesn't make them easy.

Posted by Meteo on November 13, 2009 at 3:09 a.m. #567

I want to see this combo:

j.HP st.HP cancel to HP-RCF FADC to cr.LP cr.LP cr.MP cancel to EX-Walldive with follow up Izuna Drop, knocking the opponent dizzy, then lvl-3 FA to Ultra.

This would be possible against certain characters with the right about of pre-existing stun, no? Man, I'd love to see that all together.

Posted by theonly_J on November 14, 2009 at 3:20 a.m. #568

@Meteo the above combo you just said isn't that hard to pull off, the only problem is it would only work on larger characters such as sagat, seth, zangief ect (any other character the izuna drop would just go over there head). the only character that i think can get stunned by that combo would be a seth user seeing as he has such low stun numbers, sagat and gief on the other hand have insane stun numbers. I can pull off the combo, but what i was trying to work on today was a j.HP st.HP cancel to HP-RCF FADC to cr.LP cr.MP LP-RCF FADC cr.LP cr.LP HK-ST and a taunt after for good measure lol.

the only problem is that idk if i have enough time after the first FADC to get out a LP-RCF.

Posted by Meteo on November 15, 2009 at 11:50 p.m. #569

Well I at least know you can get out a cr.LP, and if thats out you can LP-RCF I guess.

Anyway, I found another tiny use for p-link.
st.LK to st.RH~LK
3 hits, 150 damage, 250 stun (claw+mask vs healthy Ryu)

st.LK can be linked after cr.MK too, but you normally have better options. On the rare chance I happened to be landing a st.LK online, I used to follow up with cr.MP, but against short characters st.RH~LK seems to be the better option.

Posted by Kage on November 17, 2009 at 8:55 a.m. #570

Hey guys,

Any strategic point to interrupting a standing cl. HP with KKK or PPP?

It looks sorta cool - but seems very punishable. Haven't had a chance to try it much in actual gameplay but maybe it'll help keep the opponent guessing.

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