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Step Your Game Up with EG|Justin Wong

Step Up Your Game: Chapter 13 - Super Street Fighter 4 Arcade Edition v2012 tier list

Written by Justin Wong
May 3, 2013 at 8:55 p.m. PDT
Hey everyone, these next few articles will be interesting. I will be providing my opinion on how each of the characters in Super Street Fighter 4 Arcade Edition v2012 rank, before branching into other games.

I'll give an overview of what their pros and cons are, and who would be a good partner if you need a secondary character.

I will have a grade system running from S+, S, S-, A+, A, A- B+, B, B- and C, with S+ being highest and C being lowest.

Akuma


Grade: S+

Pros: Amazing walk speed, amazing pressure. Many ways to open people up with Demon Flip Dive Kick or Palm or command throw. His sweep gives him so many options, and it's very hard to punish his sweep on block or whiff. Good space control with his air fireball. Able to option select his DP on hit or block with FADC.

Cons: Low health, has trouble with characters that can pressure well and able to punish his teleport on wakeup.

Partner: Fei Long.

Cammy


Grade: S

Pros: Amazing pressure after a Cannon Drill combo, fast walk speed, good normals with st.MK and st.HK. EX Cannon Strike amazing on block and hit. Can maximize damage off it. Can do it very low to the ground to ensure crouch tech punishes. Her frame traps are amazing and can lead into 300+ damage combos which also lead into setups. Her back throw gives her so much momentum and many types of mixups to choose from.

Cons: Uses a lot of meter for EX Cannon Strike, her throw range is very short, has trouble with high footsie character and relies on getting the knockdown too much.

Partner: Akuma.

Fei Long


Grade: S

Pros: Able to get opponent to the corner once they're hit by Rekkas, able to throw rekkas out like a poke, good mid range normals such as cr.MP, cr.HP, and st.HP. Good anti air with his DP and st.HK. Also has a tick throw setup with his command throw which is hard to avoid. EX Rekka can be thrown out to continue pressure.

Cons: Has a hard time against charge characters.

Partner: Yun.

Sakura


Grade: S

Pros: Very fast normals with crouching light punch, crouching heavy punch and light kick version of Hurricane Kick armor breaks and able to combo after. Easy damage and easy hit confirms which leads into devastating setups in the corner.

Cons: Loses to super defensive safe characters which forces Sakura to take heavy risks, which possibly makes her lose health during the process.

Partner: Balrog, Guile, Seth, Akuma.

Seth


Grade: S

Pros: High stun character, large variety of moves such as his Dragon Punch, Tanden Engine, Spinning Pile Driver, which all lead into a 50/50 mixup. Very strong pressure with his normals and amazing Ultra 1 and 2. Amazing jump arc and able to wall jump from one screen to another.

Cons: Low life, must play very risky in order to make use of the character heavy mixup tools.

Partner: Cammy, Yun, C. Viper.

Adon


Grade: S-

Pros: Jaguar Kicks control a lot of the screen due to their hit box. Very hard to punish because of how fast it comes out. Good pokes with st.HK, and cr.HK. Able to bully people with his back throw into his ambiguous cross up MK. Good DP, which allows him to continue the pressure. His walk speed is very fast and he has a good throw range. Both ultras are very reliable.

Cons: Very hard to deal with characters that are able to bully Adon in the corner such as Fei Long, M. Bison, etc. Health is below average.

Partner: Yun.

C. Viper


Grade: S-

Pros: Strong rushdown, able to super jump cancel almost all her ground normals into a Super Jump Flame Kick which can result in a pressure situation or a cross up. Able to continue momentum of her mixup game. Can also combo Ultra 1 without using meter due to super jump cancel.

Cons: Low life, must take risks with her HP Thunder Knuckle due to other vortex characters. No good mid range normal to compete with footsies. Requires too much meter to be dangerous.

Partner: Seth, Fei long, Sagat.

Ibuki


Grade: S-

Pros: Strong mixup character, many setups after knockdown, amazing close range normals and active normals such as crouching medium punch and able to combo into Ultra due to super jump cancels after normals.

Cons: Wake up option limited to EX DP, no good footsies buttons and loses to other strong vortex characters.

Partner: Balrog, Cammy, Yun.

Yun


Grade: S-

Pros: Very good pressure and rushdown. Has a dive kick with a command throw which all leads into the same combo and can continue vortex pressure. Also Gene-jin Super really powerful for a good commanding lead in the 3rd round.

Cons: Very risky character since his DP is not FADCable, wake up isn't as strong because of that.

Partner: Guile, Fei Long, Sagat.

Abel


Grade: A+

Pros: Strong rushdown due to his step kick dash forward pressure. Able to continue relentless pressure. Very strong character that easily gets meter and able to use his meter for any situation.

Cons: Loses to characters who can rush down better, like with Dive Kick pressure. Throwing on his wake up takes away all his good ex wake up options such as command throw, Rekka and Roll.

Partner: Makoto, Ibuki, Sagat.

Gen


Grade: A+

Pros: Strong mix ups after back throw, forward throw and even the hard knockdown after Waterfall Kick. Multi use of normals due to 2 stances and having a super increases the chances of winning due to Super into Ultra. Nice mid range normal with standing medium kick into his Hundred Hand Slaps.

Cons: Very hard to use in terms of execution, for Hundred Hand Slaps and finishing off with the untechable Waterfall Kicks. Also easy to rush down and wake up options not too strong.

Partner: Yun, M. Bison, Fei Long.

Makoto


Grade: A+

Pros: High damage/high stun. Gets opponent to corner very easily with EX Hayate. Able to turn the match into her favor very easily. Able to combo after her command throw and standing medium punch is good because of the active frames.

Cons: Very risky character because she is forced to advance forward. Not an amazing amount of good wake up options to use.

Partner: Fei Long, Gouken, M. Bison.

Ryu


Grade: A+

Pros: Amazing fireball game, good mid range normals such as crouching medium kick and crouching heavy kick. Good frame traps with crouching medium punch. Reliable Dragon Punch and many ways to combo into ultra. One of the best characters in the game that can use meter in any way.

Cons: Loses to character with better defensive tools and normals such as Dhalsim, Guile, Adon, Rose, etc. Also his mix ups are not as strong compared to other strong mix up characters.

Partner(s): Cammy, Yun, Fei Long, Adon

Rufus


Grade: A+

Pros: Strong rushdown pressure with dive kick, able to close the gap with his D/F+MK. Good mid range sweep to stop people from trying to escape against dive kick pressure. Able to combo his Ultra 1 in many situations. EX Messiah Kick is a very good tool to close out the round by chip and a good wake up attack.

Cons: Cannot escape wake ups without meter, EX Messiah Kick is a double edge sword where it can go over an opponent's head and you get a full punish. Must take a lot of risk to continue his pressure and can easily get zoned out by a good amount of characters in the game.

Partner: Fei Long, Adon, Sagat.

Gouken


Grade: A

Pros: Very strong fireball game, high damage output. Amazing mid range crouching heavy kick. Great counter/ex counter for wake ups and back throw is useful to combo into ultra.

Cons: Lack of mid range combos, heavy meter use for a lot of his damage and tools. Armor breaks beats counters.

Partner: Akuma, Guile, Zangief.

Guy


Grade: A

Pros: Good pressure when using the sequence of cr.LK x2 into st.MP into either Bushin Izuna Otoshi Elbow Drop or Run command and stopping the run at the fastest frame to continue pressure. Also good anti air with cr.MP or EX Hurricane Kick. Able to land very tricky cross ups or non cross ups with jump MK or Elbow drop.

Cons: Very risky wake up game with EX Hurricane Kick, Ultra combos does very low damage due to many normals connecting before actually landing the first hit of the ultra. And not many good normals to play footsies with.

Partner: Rufus, Guile.

Juri


Grade: A

Pros: Really good normal dash, different type of wake up options such as EX Pinwheel, Counters, and backdash. Good pressure with her Fireball charge and an amazing kara throw. Ultra 1 is one of the best ultras in the game.

Cons: Low life, no flow chart pressure for her, which requires Juri players to work a lot harder for specific combos and setups.

Partner: Zangief, Akuma, M. Bison

M. Bison


Grade: A
Pros: Very strong pressure with his crouching light kick into Scissor Kick. Able to keep the opponent in the corner due to how safe the light kick Scissor Kick is. Good normals such as standing medium kick and standing heavy kick. Many wake up options such as EX Psycho crusher, EX Devil's Reverse. EX Scissor Kick and Teleport. Able to keep a lead.

Cons: Loses to stronger defensive character and hard to stop vortex characters from taking away his charge.

Partner: Rufus, Sagat, Gouken, Akuma

Oni


Grade: A

Pros: Very good pressure normals which leads into amazing combos. Good mixups after a knockdown and good mid range normals such as standing heavy punch or forward + medium kick.

Cons: No mid range normals that you can combo into a special move and not able to FADC his Dragon punch on block.

Partner: Akuma, Evil Ryu, Sagat.

Balrog


Grade: A-

Pros: Good mid range pokes with cr.HK and st.HK, can chip with his Dash Punch, good counter attacking with the use of EX Dash Punches. Very good counter poking with his cr.LP, good anti air normals with cr.HP and st.MP. Very hard to poke with fireballs due to Turn Punch or when Balrog has super meter.

Cons: Can easily get mixed up once knocked down, cannot handle cross up pressure and able to run away easily and make Balrog lose his charge which takes away his specials, supers and ultra.

Partner: Fei Long, Akuma, Guile.

Cody


Grade: A-

Pros: Good anti air button with Back+MP. Has a good far poke with st.HK, able to put a lot of frame trap pressure which leads into damaging combos. Very good mixup with using empty jump EX Zonk knuckle. Very fast cr.MP to avoid tick throw setups.

Cons: Relies too much on frame traps, which allows people to stand tech and grab his normals. Very slow walk speed. Hard to bait out stand techs and wake up game is not amazing without using EX Zonk FADC.

Dhalsim


Grade: A-

Pros: Good keep away tools with his long limbs. Really good anti air options. Usually able to control the match in the first round since both parties start with no meter.

Cons: No good wake up option, not a combo character, which hurts his damage, and he gets rushed down very easily against characters with strong pressure.

Partner: Seth, Zangief, Fei Long.

Guile


Grade: A-

Pros: Very little recovery on his fireball, good mid range normals with st.HK, st.HP. and cr.MK. Really good anti air normals like cr.HP, Far st.MK. Amazing air throw range and will always hold the lead in the beginning of the game.

Cons: Not much universal combo capabilities. Hard to make a comeback when down on life. Once knocked down, his wake up game can easily be baited and must block well all the time.

Partner: Akuma, Cammy.

Sagat


Grade A-

Pros: Very good fireball game and keep away pressure. Good mid range normal with st.LK, st.MK and st.HK. Also EX Tiger Knee is a good move to get away from the corner and its safe on block. Able to make EX Tiger Knee cross up into ultra. Both ultras are very useful for match up preference.

Cons: Dragon Punch doesn't do enough damage, which makes characters disrespect his fireball game, which results in a jump in. Ultra 1 doesn't juggle well in the corner and character is very tall which makes Sagat players have a difficult time blocking.

Partner: Akuma, C. Viper, Cammy.

Zangief


Grade: A-

Pros: Massive range on LP version of SPD, able to push opponent in the corner due to intimidation with his st.MP and able to buffer cr.LP into EX Green Hand from really far away. Also his Flying Power Bomb gives him amazing okizeme once landed. Lariat is a very easy anti air to use, and both his ultras are very scary against anyone.

Cons: Gets lamed out by good fireball characters like Sagat, Akuma, Dhalsim, etc. Must take a lot of risk after knocking an opponent down. Not easy to land both his ultras since it must be good reads.

Partner: M. Bison, Cammy, Hakan.

Blanka


Grade: B+

Pros: Good walk speed, able to annoy opponents with his good normals and LP Blanka Ball. Very hard to punish Blanka's specials. Electricity is very good to use to keep pressure on the opponent. Very good focus attack which allows him to lean back and punish whiffed mid range normals. Has 2 good Ultras to use to win the round when opponent is low on health.

Cons: Not a very strong mixup character. Relies on having meter for his EX Rainbow Ball and his EX Upball. Really hard to combo into his ultra for massive damage boost during mid game.

Partner: E. Honda, Fei Long.

Ken


Grade: B+

Pros: Very mobile with forward + medium kick, amazing kara throw, amazing Dragon Punch, and every time you end a combo you can always start a mixup.

Cons: Damage is not too high, mixups are pretty easy to escape, frame traps are not as strong and landing a full damage ultra is not too consistent. Also his block strings into fireball are at times not true block strings.

Partner(s): Akuma, Fei Long, Sakura.

E. Honda


Grade: B+

Pros: High damage output, good jump in with jumping medium punch, amazing standing low hitting move with standing heavy kick, easy chip damage with Hundred Hand Slaps, Super and Ultra goes through fireballs and having a command throw is always good.

Cons: Needs meter most of the time to get away from wake ups and cross ups. Close range normals are not as strong and fast for poking. No good knockdown normal button and hard to regain the lead when down on life.

Partner(s): Guile, Akuma, C. Viper.

El Fuerte


Grade: B+

Pros: Most free movement in the game due to his run command. Able to continue pressure with Run Stop command into a normal and able to wash, rinse and repeat. 50/50 mixups during run command such as Tostada Press which must be blocking high or Fajita Buster which must be avoided by blocking low. Good anti air with his EX Guacamole Leg Throw and able to combo after his overhead F+MK into more pressure. Good ultras which stops the opponent from jumping back or jumping.

Cons: No good normals to poke with. His 50/50 mixups do very little damage which allows the opponent to punish very hard if they guess right. Very poor wake up game and must spend meter. Poor backdash and becomes very predictable once on the defensive.

Partner: Yun, Balrog.

Rose


Grade: B+

Pros: Good normals such as her slide, cr.HK, cr.MP, st.HK. Able to absorb fireballs and build a lot of meter. Soul Spiral very useful offensive tool. Good anti air with Soul throw or cr.HP. Can rush down and bait throw tech and crouch tech with neutral st.MK. Good backdash.

Cons: Gets rushed down, not many wake up options and needs meter to do EX Soul Spiral and Soul Throw and both are unsafe. Her offense becomes very predictable since it mainly ends with Soul Spiral.

Partner: Dhalsim, Akuma.

Yang


Grade: B+

Pros: Able to control pressure with his cr.LK into Mantis Slashes. Not much pushback. Able to fit a lot of mixups with his command throw. Good reliable anti air and also FADCable.

Cons: Divekick height restriction and also not good frame advantage. Doesn't have a reliable universal cross up which hurts his mixup game after a knockdown. Very weak in damage in terms of bread and butter combos.

Partner: Yun, Fei Long, Sagat.

Dee Jay


Grade: B

Pros: Good fireball, Really hard to jump on him due to his EX Jackknife Maximum. Good mid range pokes with st.HK and has a way to change his jump trajectory with Jump Down + Light Kick.

Cons: Loses to characters with better mid range buttons, doesn't really have comeback potential, really hard to land his ultra 1 and 2.

Partner: Guile, Ryu, Fei Long

Dudley


Grade: B

Pros: Very strong close up normals leading into amazing pressure with his forward + medium kick. His Ducking move goes under fireballs and ability to keep up pressure and focus attack is amazing.

Cons: His Jet upper is only good when its EX, his cross counter is not reliable to use because of the recovery and he gets lamed out by defensive characters.

Partner: Guile, Zangief, M. Bison, Fei Long

Evil Ryu


Grade: B

Pros: High damage, cr.MK into fireball is a true block string, good combo extension with the use of his Axe Kick. Good forward dash and focus attack which leads into good pressure.

Cons: Low health character. Very linear and relies solely on cr.MK into fireball into FADC combo. Teleport is very punishable and his DP is not as strong compared to the other Shotos in the game.

Hakan


Grade: B

Pros: Oiled mode is extremely dangerous. Good 50/50 setups with both his command throws. Can focus cancel and punish many things which are not meant to be punished. Can stack oil which makes his pressure last a lot longer.

Cons: Relies solely on Oiled up Hakan. When not oiled, many of his normals become no where near as good, and his range on command throws becomes a lot less. Gets rushed down after the oil has ran out of time.

Partner: Ryu, Balrog, Akuma.

Chun-Li


Grade: B-

Pros: Good normals such as standing medium punch, crouching heavy kick, standing heavy kick and standing heavy punch. Amazing Super to punish many blocked normals which are normally not punishable.

Cons: Ultra 1 not viable on many characters and Ultra 2 damage is too low. Her anti airs are not reliable and requires too much concentration on knowing which one to pick. Comeback potential is too weak and EX Spinning Bird Kick is not as good as a wake up.

Partner: Balrog, Cammy, Adon

T. Hawk


Grade: B-

Pros: Good setups after landing his command throw. Good pokes with st.HK, st.MK, and cr.MP. Able to use EX Condor Spire to go through fireballs and has the most health in the game.

Cons: Very hard to get in, walk speed is very slow. His wake up game is not as strong. Has a hard time dealing with characters with pokes that can keep him at bay. Must take a lot of risks.

Partner: Adon, Blanka, E. Honda.

Vega


Grade: B-

Pros: Good pokes with cr.MK, cr.MP, and st.MK. Amazing Kara throw range and can catch people from jumping back with his EX Wall Dive.

Cons: No reliable anti air, must predict a lot when an opponent is jumping. No good way to land safe chip damage, not a very strong mixup character, no good wake up reversals, both ultras are very hard to combo.

Partner: Rufus, M. Bison, Rose.

Dan


Grade: C

Pros: Dragon Punch is very strong and Dan Kicks are very good at pressuring the opponent. Able to cancel his Super Taunt into Ultra which leads into potential useful combo possibilities.

Cons: Very slow normals, not a reliable fireball, hard to start pressure and very weak in terms of making a comeback.

Partner: Akuma, Ryu, Adon, Rose.


Create your own “Wong Factor” comebacks

Justin Wong is a member of Evil Geniuses, you can find more information about this organization at http://www.myeg.net.

Comments

Gurpwnder said on April 29, 2013 at 11:53 p.m.

I like the fact that he recognized Dan's potential (hell, he beat Air's Ryu using Dan), but I feel that Dan's come a long way, and his normals have improved DRAMATICALLY from Super to AE2012. While he may be C tier, compared to everyone else above him in B or higher, I still feel that he's very close to the rest of the pack. He's got the toolset to win, he just lacks the dirt that many other characters possess.

#1
Hiya_tiger said on April 29, 2013 at 11:54 p.m.

whelp, justin is right. we should all go home, Chris G will own us all with Sakura.

#2
Broshadian said on April 30, 2013 at 12:07 a.m.

I can agree with this for the most part. Sakuras ground normals and jumpins are crazy good along with her damage. easy fadc-able dp and great safe chip armor breakers

#3
AugustAPC said on April 30, 2013 at 12:17 a.m.

Wonder if he'll put Fei, Akuma and Cammy at S+

#4
CharlieKenSon said on April 30, 2013 at 12:20 a.m.

Yeah u can blame it on chrisG.. Yeah... Same as poongo or online tony for seth. Infiltration for akuma. Justin for rufus.. Every tier list will be created based on the players. A thousand players prolly used rufus in the beginning and said this character sucked, or that character.. then saw how a pro used him and jaws dropped. Who knew poongko's seth, or seth in general was THAT ridic b4 hand?!? You can only seperate characters so much with data, then it's up to us players to truly showcase their potentials. Like in marvel, There's still sleepers and new tech out there waiting to be discovered. Peace.

#5
mrdarknight79 said on April 30, 2013 at 12:21 a.m.

Fei Long, Cammy and Akuma must be his S+ rank then lol

#6
bagel_bytez said on April 30, 2013 at 12:42 a.m.

I'm surprised dhalsim is ranked so high considering the damage needed from super. I think this is the highest I've ever seen him on a tier list

#7
Oculus_Orbis said on April 30, 2013 at 12:58 a.m.

@7
Dhalsim has been consistently ranked above average in tier lists for the IV series. And if you've ever seen a Super Turbo tier list you'd know he sits right up there in the S rank.

#8
Yogimanz said on April 30, 2013 at 12:58 a.m.

Its wierd that Justin didnt mention Guile as Bipsons best matchup.... Dat 10-0.

#9
HyperViperNZ said on April 30, 2013 at 1:15 a.m.

I would have thought a good partner for Viper would be Ibuki and vice versa due to the ability of SJC. These however seem like they're just random partner choices.

#10
Crazcar said on April 30, 2013 at 1:32 a.m.

This list actually looks pretty good. I'd think Oni would be lower though, but it's probably a combination of rarely seeing him used and always seeing him near the bottom of most tier lists that makes me think he's worse than A tier. Look forward to how he ranks Cody and Rose.

OT: I miss the matchup type of tier lists, lol.

@10 "Partners" here means secondary characters that help cover the weakness/bad matchups of your main character. Characters with a similar playstyle would be opposite of this (since they'd likely have the same weaknesses).

#11
PwnageJuIcE said on April 30, 2013 at 1:44 a.m.

Tier lists from this community are so flavor of the month. When coming from a top player it will always be about a character that has been dominating recently. While that can hold truth it just Isn't the way to go about it everytime i feel. And although this list Isn't entirely like that I get this wierd feeling it will end up what most people expect it be when he finishes the rest of the cast. Ultimately it will just bring about the nerf "XX" character because if theres anything this community does consistently it's moan about a character being op due to a player consistently placing well. Only to players people percieve as enemies such as Infiltration.

#12
Ziano said on April 30, 2013 at 1:49 a.m.

I don't get it... partners listed for each pg should cover that character's weaknesses?

#13
learis1 said on April 30, 2013 at 2:03 a.m.

Justin should stick to playing this game instead of making tier lists for it. His rankings are a 50/50 split between accurate and a complete joke.

#14
MasterOfMagnet said on April 30, 2013 at 2:15 a.m.

Wow. All characters are S and A now?

#15
SuperCat said on April 30, 2013 at 2:20 a.m.

What's the point? They are going to do a patch soon and everything will change.

#16
Remondo02 said on April 30, 2013 at 2:31 a.m.

Just a crap tier list.
Nonsense at all.

#17
UltraKaz said on April 30, 2013 at 2:38 a.m.

Abel is A tier? Strongly disagree with that, he gets blow up by Viper, Ibuki, Yun, Rufus (divekick characters), Seth and Cammy.

#18
UltraKaz said on April 30, 2013 at 2:38 a.m.

Basically any character that has good normals and mix ups, forgot to mentin Sakura.

#19
TheDoK666 said on April 30, 2013 at 3:51 a.m.

Gen is unknown and not that high. He got only a view from Xian and Xian is a not a real Gen player. He's just playing because he doesn't want to be yell at him about his character.The description is not bad though but the ranking is too high , the character is just unknown.

#20
samuraix025 said on April 30, 2013 at 4:25 a.m.

@ 20

Xian not a real gen player, but consistently place top 8 with him...

gtfo.

#21
XeroDgX said on April 30, 2013 at 4:36 a.m.

@10
Partners are NOT because they have something in common like SJC in the case of Viper and Ibuki, partners are for covering the ranked character weakness (bad match-ups), so, 2 characters having the same move (SJC) doesn't make them cover their weakness, in fact, doesn't mean anything at all.

@13
Yes, that is the point

#22
StunningBiceps said on April 30, 2013 at 6:28 a.m.

Love the character pairing bit. Thanks Justin!

#23
leogeo2 said on April 30, 2013 at 6:41 a.m.

Oni would jump up a whole grade if he could fadc his srk on block and can cancel mk into slash.

#24
acku said on April 30, 2013 at 7:10 a.m.

(This user was banned.)

#25
shunsuke said on April 30, 2013 at 7:57 a.m.

#20
LMFAO @ Xian not beeing a real Gen player. You're crazy .

#26
MetroCityPub said on April 30, 2013 at 8:36 a.m.

@20

I can't see this as anything other than a troll comment. Xian has done a lot for Gen and has been representing him loyally since post AE. As of now, I haven't seen him use anyone other than Gen most of the time in tournaments.

#27
xanderglz said on April 30, 2013 at 9:56 a.m.

(This user was banned.)

#28
Decoy2000 said on April 30, 2013 at 10:35 a.m.

@Taichi
The grade system shows that the game itself is very balanced. Even a mid tier character can get top 8 at a major because he's actually A+.

#29
Speakertag said on April 30, 2013 at 10:43 a.m.

@20 You probably consider yourself a real Gen player huh? Go to EVO and money match Xian then. Record it too, to show us how good you are.

@29 Only Flash Metroid, I guess.

#30
Remondo02 said on April 30, 2013 at 11:09 a.m.

@27

Don't you know Amiyu ?
Perhaps under Xian but close to him anyway.

#31
F_Word said on April 30, 2013 at 11:26 a.m.

Surprised to see certain characters so high. But great read Justin. I have a similar blog I'm working on. Looking forward to the long list you'll have to write in "Pros" for Akuma, Cammy and Fei. lol We could be reading all night ;-)

#32
DJ_Sliick said on April 30, 2013 at 1:45 p.m.

lets see wht he says about guile later in the next post

#33
Daedae22 said on April 30, 2013 at 2:36 p.m.

#20 must not be a real Gen player or never played a good gen player. Gen has awesome and varied pokes. Good block strings and frame traps. Damaging combos into knock downs. Loads of set ups for safe jumps and unblockables. Also a very low jump in arch that's a chore to anti air (which you must do unless your a grappler you really don't want Gen on top of you). Last but certainly not least If he has a full Super loaded hes one of the deadliest character in the game and lord forbid he doesnt have Ultra one mistake and 60 or 70% of your health gone easy and he has a set ups after. I'd say his only real weakness is he has a major uphill climb against zoners and maybe his wake up game but he has a decent option with an EX stocked just takes timing.

#34
FREE1UP said on April 30, 2013 at 2:41 p.m.

Bison over Ken? Uh well to each his own. Although I wouldn't recommend it lol.

#35
yaboiman said on April 30, 2013 at 3:30 p.m.

SAKUWA SO CUTE! YAY!

#36
PropLeXed said on April 30, 2013 at 4:11 p.m.

Some interesting character positions here. Being an Abel player I have to disagree with his positioning here, I don't feel he's that high I mean he's a rare sighting as it is. Much respect to Justin for putting this list together though and looking forward to the rest of the cast.

On a side note comment #20 caused me to face palm so damn hard.

#37
MakotoJoker said on April 30, 2013 at 4:41 p.m.

A+ Makoto F*** yes!

#38
Slaystation said on April 30, 2013 at 4:44 p.m.

Ugh, people.

1. This is only half the tier list. The character you play seems like they're ranked high because half the characters are still missing from the list.

2. Justin isn't using some homemade letter-ranking system. Have you guys played the game? Next time you lose, look at the little letters that show how badly your opponent kicked your ass.

3. I love how random newbs argue with his rankings. He one of the best fighting-game players in the world and some of you are like, "Meh. He doesn't know what he's talking about." Sure. We should take your advice instead. He knew more about this game on day one then you probably ever will. No homo.

#39
keebler said on April 30, 2013 at 7:25 p.m.

I can agree with pretty much all of this. If it seems like Justin is rating some of these characters higher than you'd assume, it is really just because this game has better balance than people give it credit for. There is certainly a top tier, but the other guys are pretty close behind.

I'm glad he brought up Sakura. Sakura has been incredibly slept on because there arent any major sakura players in the states besides Chris, and Chris isn't exactly thought of as a SF player. He's just amazing at Marvel, and damn good at everything else lol. I can only think of Uryo, Humanbomb, and Skatan off the top of my head. Funny thing is that she is a testament of how powerful someone can be solely from their hitboxes. Her j.hp, c.hp, and c.mk are all insanely good. Watch Chris G and he seriously jumps in all day with j.hp with no fear.

All I'm waiting for now is an S-tier player that frequently goes to majors to play Juri. I have a feeling she is going to be climbing toward top tier after the update because the current top is going to inevitably knocked down a peg. She has tons of untapped potential waiting to be shown off by a smart player.

#40
keebler said on April 30, 2013 at 7:30 p.m.

@18

Out of everyone you named that "blows up Abel," each one of them on this list is listed above Abel lol. So i dunno why you are questioning his placement so far. Justin even said that he gets blown up from people that are better at pressure.

You should read his actual explanations instead of focusing on an A or A+. It's just an arbitrary letter.

#41
p0wderedtoastman said on April 30, 2013 at 7:56 p.m.

Please do one for SFxT, Justin!

#42
CheeseCakez said on April 30, 2013 at 8:19 p.m.

#5 said it perfectly.

#43
HyperViperNZ said on April 30, 2013 at 11:52 p.m.

@11
Oh okay. Didn't quite understand what the partners part was about. Still don't fully understand it. How Seth would be a good partner for Viper? Cover her weaknesses? Both low health, both extreme rush down and mix up characters who can attack at all distances and jump full screen. Still seems like random partner choosing.

#44
Shinebox said on May 1, 2013 at 1:07 a.m.

Another con is low stamina and stun for Dhalsim and Gen because they have the exact same values as Evil Ryu

#45
Necreon said on May 1, 2013 at 6:45 a.m.

I expected a tierlist with the full roster. I really wonder what would Justin say about Vega (Claw).

#46
Capcom_Warrior said on May 2, 2013 at 7:20 p.m.

@49. Justin would say he sucks because it's true. He's practically unplayable in AE 2012. He just doesn't have the tools to compete with all the top tiers. Footies will only take you so far. You need damage and options and Vega has neither. I've actually quit playing AE because Vega is so bad. I'm tired of the matchups.

#47
kaka said on May 3, 2013 at 10:06 p.m.

i prefer the tier list from shoryuken forums. that one is very well done

#48
ineedbackup said on May 3, 2013 at 10:14 p.m.

nothing out of the ordinary with this list. maybe abel since I cannot recall seeing anyone, even from Japan, doing anything with the character lately.

#49
Cyclops said on May 3, 2013 at 10:35 p.m.

Sagat is better than Gouken yet Gouken is higher on the tier list than Sagat

#50
Santaclaus said on May 3, 2013 at 10:35 p.m.

I pretty much agree with everything except for chun li which should be way higher imo. and guy and gen who should be way lower lol

switch Chun to A or at the very least B+ and Gen and Guy to B and my oppinion would be exactly the same as justins

#51
Shinebox said on May 3, 2013 at 10:41 p.m.

Oh look at that, Just like I predicted. He mentioned low health for Evil Ryu but not for Gen and Dhalsim when their values are all the same. This is why it is hard to agree with him he knows the game well but you can only understand certain characters so much.

#52
auhsojsivart said on May 3, 2013 at 10:45 p.m.

So, the best charge character (according to JWong) is only the 18th best character overall. Geez.

#53
IanS said on May 3, 2013 at 11:07 p.m.

No partner for cody :(

#54
kingmedicine said on May 3, 2013 at 11:08 p.m.

I'm sorry but Sakura is ranked far to high she loses hard to zoning and can have difficulty with grapplers too and lacks a really reliable anti-air it's untrue that crouching fierce beats everything she's mid-tier at best, on top of that her below average health makes her a real glass cannon

#55
GodPride said on May 3, 2013 at 11:09 p.m.

I agree with Vega's position on this list. I can't wait til he gets some of the buffs proposed on the Capcom Unity site. They weren't as outlandish as some of the other character suggestions. Hopefully, the next patch encourages honest play by reducing invincibility frames overall and tightening reversal window.

#56
kingmedicine said on May 3, 2013 at 11:16 p.m.

Not to mention she lacks any solid reversal options, to be fair though everything else on the list looks pretty accurate

#57
ineedbackup said on May 3, 2013 at 11:21 p.m.

@shinebox: He probably knows, maybe he doesn't. I'm guessing he's just listing what he thinks is their main weakness and he put other stuff ahead of health for gen/sim. no need to get mad over minor things.

#58
Necreon said on May 4, 2013 at 12:31 a.m.

Vega with "not" very strong mixups? Justin... you know nothing about him. A ground-heavy styled Vega has amazing mixups.

#59
Wachenroder said on May 4, 2013 at 1:55 a.m.

This one of if not the best tier list breakdown I have ever seen for this game. Has he ever done one for UMvC3?

#60
Remondo02 said on May 4, 2013 at 2:09 a.m.

One of the worst tier list ever.
Because ChrisG has a strong Sakura, it means Sakura is S ?
What a joke !!!

Ken B+, he's soooo much higher than that dude. He's beside Ryu.
Chun-li B- : just no !!!

Viper on the same level as Ibuki and Yun....

Frankly even the pro players should not post tierlists.
It's totally useless and subjective.

#61
Altazon said on May 4, 2013 at 2:38 a.m.

i think this list is really accurate. sure 1 or 2 charactewrs are debayable if they should be put 1 or 2 places higher or lower but overall is a good tier list. LOL at people saying chun should be put higher, top players know she sucks, even daigo said any char could be placed top tier except chun, t hawk and 3 or 4 more chars i dont remember.

btw people saying... ohhh he doesnt know what hes talking about... gtfo... justin knows more than you since day 1 probably, he is a dedicated player to the game... he lives for playing this game and marvel, obviously he knows what he is talking about.

#62
devilcuco said on May 4, 2013 at 2:53 a.m.

Yun better than makoto, ryu, sagat, rufus? No way.

you lost to kazunoko but the problem is not yun, he is just way better player than you. Thats all.

#63
Sweecide said on May 4, 2013 at 3:13 a.m.

Justin is a great player and all, but he's tripping with these tier lists. He's obviously based the placings on this tier list off the PLAYERS that do well with them and not the actual CHARACTERS.

#64
Ixion said on May 4, 2013 at 3:44 a.m.

"Dan:

Pros: [...] Able to cancel his Super Taunt into Ultra which leads into potential useful combo possibilities."

I can't believe this is highlighted as one of Dan's strengths.
Dear god. >_<

Also, Guy has no good pokes?? You crazy? far.MK is good, far.MP reaches extremely far and can cancel into combos, cr.MK dodges tons of stuff, scores a knockdown and beats armor, and cr.MP is insane.

#65
redfactor said on May 4, 2013 at 3:46 a.m.

I don't understand why everyone thinks that a world class fighting game player would be beyond naive to base all of his thoughts on something as childish as "Well I lost to this player using this character!". Justin has written explanations for why a certain character is placed where without the need to mention any player that has done well with them. Justin for example doesn't only play against Chris G's Sakura. He would of played against the same, if not more Sakura players than any of us.

Most of these comments seem to be hypocritical with players usually only ever having a problem with where their own character is placed, usually coincidentally higher than they think it should be. Seems the bias isn't from Justin at all.

#66
Shumanigans said on May 4, 2013 at 3:50 a.m.

Juri may have "diverse" wake-up options, but most of them are crap. Juri's current wake-up game should never be considered a pro/strength.

#67
ineedbackup said on May 4, 2013 at 4:06 a.m.

@devilcuco: Yun might not be 'better' in your eyes, but he arguably deals with akuma, cammy, and seth better than those characters and that's what matters these days

on rufus, so overrated it's unreal

#68
ineedbackup said on May 4, 2013 at 4:09 a.m.

@shuma

Juri reminds me of gouken in that way

#69
ZiggzBoy16 said on May 4, 2013 at 7:58 a.m.

@18 I don't understand all the Abel whining about how he's so bad. He's really not, he has way more options than allot of characters and his offense is definitely something to be afraid of. With EX he can get out of, and even capitalize on situations allot of the cast cannot. I think there just isn't a player that's picked him up good enough to fully utilize him yet, just like Gen or Sakura had been for about 2-4 years.

Anyways, all of the rankings are pretty legit here to me. Good job, Justin.

#70
CAC said on May 4, 2013 at 8:09 a.m.

People keep forgetting that Chris G isn't the only sakura that has placed well in tournaments.

Sakura's a hell of a winner, man. One with flaws, but one that can still play nicely with top tiers, which is important.

#71
XeroDgX said on May 4, 2013 at 8:51 a.m.

yang better than Vega, Evil Ryu and Dudley......I just don't trust this tier too much.....and everybody saw that coming (akuma the only s+)

#72
MahvelBaby said on May 4, 2013 at 9:03 a.m.

Evil Ryu below Oni?

Okayyyy.

#73
MullaXul said on May 4, 2013 at 10:13 a.m.

(This user was banned.)

#74
cerberusfx said on May 4, 2013 at 11:06 a.m.

I actually think Rose is either A or A- on this tier list

In her own rank she beats fuerte and honda, is tied with ken and loses to yang and blanka. Between all the characters from rank A to A- she has 4 good matchups (gouken, oni, guile, zangief), 6 even matchups (dhalsim, cody, bison, sagat, balrog, guy), and one bad matchup: juri. So I'm a little skeptical regarding her placement.

#75
keebler said on May 4, 2013 at 11:30 a.m.

@47

Having a secondary partner is more about making up for bad matchups, and not necessarily weaknesses per se, even though that sounds like the same thing. Two heavy offense characters that lack defense can still be good partners if they cover each others bad matchups. Like for Cammy, good partners would be Akuma or Sagat. They are good against tough matchups for Cammy such as Rog, Bison, Dee Jay, Gief, etc.

#76
keebler said on May 4, 2013 at 11:38 a.m.

@78

In my opinion, you could pretty much take everyone he lists from grade A, A-, and B+, and that could be one large tier in itself. All of those characters are competitive-grade.

#77
caminitoaa said on May 4, 2013 at 11:46 a.m.

many stupid comments. most ratings for characters here are true by wong. knew sakura, gouken, guy, adon, ibuki, viper, balrog, rose were top tiers but no one believed me. for christ's fu ck , they are safe like hell . fei may be top but he requires real spacing to be unpunishable. these asshol just abusing safe combos without worrying about any spacing. for ie, if you bison does his scissor kick and you block, no free attack. lol

no one believed me when i said this, but now maybe people will since justing wong has a better reputation than i

#78
DarknessFallz said on May 4, 2013 at 11:47 a.m.

I would say Rose is a B- character, I think he over estimates her anti air tech. Her cr.hp gets beaten by certain jump-ins (and compared to Akuma's and Sakura's its mediocre) and her regular Soul Throw gets beaten by any jumping attack especially jumping jabs and shorts not to mention how unsafe it can be. He downplayed her lack of reversal and how hard she gets rushed down, also her lack of offense and atrocious damage output - but he did point out something I missed in that she gets real predictable real fast.

#79
caminitoaa said on May 4, 2013 at 11:48 a.m.

seth can't be s. true he has good mixup and priorities, but his low health may compensate for it. he is mid.

#80
Orzeker said on May 4, 2013 at 12:18 p.m.

No partner for E.ryu? Anyway this tier list is really accurate for me !

#81
Blinx360 said on May 4, 2013 at 1:06 p.m.

Oni as A? dafuq? I'm MORE than positive Justin doesn't play Oni if he ranked him so high. The only way Oni could be that high on a tier list is if he had C. Vipers Flame Kick properties on his Slashes. Oni is C tier, MAYBE C+ on a really good day. But he is no where near close to A tier. Not yet anyway.

#82
keebler said on May 4, 2013 at 2:20 p.m.

@83
With that logic, Akuma shouldn't be high either. Health doesnt matter if you aren't getting hit lol. Both Seth and Akuma can kill you off of one mistake since you may not get out of wakeup games. The only reason Seth isn't as high as Akuma is because you have to take far more risks with Seth, and you won't always win your gambles.

@82
She has the best backdash in the game along with Chun, which puts her over many other characters that don't have great reversals. Tons of characters have crap reversals or ones that can be safejumped. Great footsies, one of the best throw ranges in the game, and two useful ultras. She gets run over by vortex but she is a contender still.

#83
soggytoast said on May 4, 2013 at 3:13 p.m.

I generally agree with most of this.

Stuff I disagree with:

Seth should be closer to the top. He's possibly #1 IMO. There is just so much that he has that is completely unfair. He has trump cards for literally every situation, and a knockdown means you're forced to deal with multiple mixups before you have a reasonable chance to break out.

Akuma only looks like #1 because Infiltration is #1. If you have strong footsies and awareness, as a character Akuma is beatable. The problem is that few in the world can match Infiltration right now in this respects. Still a top 5 character, but maybe #2 or #3.

Cammy is too high at #2. She's probably still in the top 5, but I wouldn't say that she's better than Seth or even Sakura. Once you get the hang of her divekicks and blocking them properly, she's good, but not the best.

Abel and Rufus are way too high. Abel might be the worst character in the game now excluding Dan. Step kick into something is so one-dimensional. Roll is extremely punishable. Rufus used to be really high, but over time it became much easier to deal with his dive kick pressure. His setups are predictable and neutral game is awful.

#84
MaysTheCraze said on May 4, 2013 at 4:50 p.m.

That empty jump EX Zonk Knuckle mixup with Cody made me cringe...

#85
rogueish1 said on May 4, 2013 at 5:59 p.m.

Near perfect list.

#86
euthanasian said on May 4, 2013 at 8:04 p.m.

@87

About you saying that Cammy shouldn't be #2... Aren't all the characters at S level equal? She isn't #2, she's on the same level as Fei, Sakura and Seth, right? Aren't the characters that are the same tier arranged alphabetically?

#87
nocturnal said on May 5, 2013 at 1:39 a.m.

I don't think he knows Vega well enough. Below Hakan or Fuerte? I don't think so.

#88
Venomish said on May 5, 2013 at 2:14 a.m.

Finally a tier list that I can agree with.
Yes Chun,my main, is that bad. Worst 5 is realistic.
Also many A characters used to be only nentioned in low tiers but this list gives them the right acknowledgement they deserve.
I will just wait for the next ssf4 balance update

#89
Speakertag said on May 5, 2013 at 6:23 a.m.

Lolling @ Yun being Adon's only partner.

#90
devilcuco said on May 5, 2013 at 6:32 a.m.

@ineedbakup cammy is 6-4 against yun, 6-4 vs fei, 6-4 vs ryu, 6-4 on sagat. Too much 6-4. Seth maybe 5-5?
And rufus has near 200hp more than yun. Ok rufus dont have conmand grab. But 200hp is absurd.

Yun is one of the few chars with sigtly advantage over akuma. But he is not s-, no way. Ryu is better. Ask daigo.

Imo, yun is soo overrated.

#91
ChocolateThunder said on May 5, 2013 at 6:49 a.m.

@88
I was looking this up cause I have never see that and I found this ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSvXhL... ) and said "OOOOhhh now I know what you mean"

#92
Shinebox said on May 5, 2013 at 3:03 p.m.

@61 What I'm saying is you cannot make the argument for one character when it is the case with another. It ruins your credibility on what you understand about the entire cast.

#93
TKira said on May 6, 2013 at 12:30 p.m.

Did not expect gief to be so low.

#94
TODAKAI507 said on May 7, 2013 at 4:03 p.m.

can gen have any other partner who cover his bad matchups besides those 3 dont like bison yun o fei sorr T_T

#95
SaitoKojima said on May 9, 2013 at 11:22 a.m.

Really hoping when that eventual 2013-2014 update for AE comes that Evil Ryu and Hakan get some substantial buffs.

#96
A1Spinn said on May 11, 2013 at 7:05 p.m.

Juri needs to be buffed! i disagree about her being A list..imo

#97
whatajoke said on May 12, 2013 at 3:25 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#98
JDizzle said on June 27, 2013 at 7:57 p.m.

viper takes tons of skill but she doesn't need tons of meter to be dangerous she's already dangerous without bar her mix-up's are so hard to block all she really needs is a bar for FFF ex seismo (meterless FADC)into ultra if your opponent is not already in the corner

#99
FreeHUGz said on August 12, 2013 at 11:32 a.m.

I main Hawk and side Gief, and Justin hits the nail on the head for both characters. I hate having to face shoto after shoto, so I may as well try to learn Bison.

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